Tired of Serial Refunders

99 replies
There are two things that drive me absolutely crazy:

- People who purchase a product and e-mail you 1 minute after purchase letting you know that the product "was not right for them" and request a refund

- People that buy a product for $5 and submit a PayPal claim for an "unauthorized transaction".

I mean, really? Rather than just send an e-mail requesting a refund, you want to go through the trouble of opening a PayPal claim for $5? I guess this is the stuff we have to deal with as vendors. These are probably the same folks who eat half a hamburger at McDonalds and take it back to complain about the taste to try to get their money back. They've already consumed some of it, so why not try to milk the system a little more if you're able to do so?

Anyway, that's my rant for the day. Thankfully in WSO Pro you can block access, but it's usually too late by that point anyway.
#refunders #serial #tired
  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Originally Posted by bhuff85 View Post

    I mean, really? Rather than just send an e-mail requesting a refund, you want to go through the trouble of opening a PayPal claim for $5?
    These are the people who are too gutless to email and ask for a refund. I just laugh and move on. They are the idiots who will still be here in 5 years making zero money online. Karma takes care of those people so I don't have to.
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    • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      These are the people who are too gutless to email and ask for a refund. i just laugh and move on. They are the idiots who will still be here in 5 years making zero money online. Karma takes care of those people so I don't have to.
      Very true. I guess some folks never cease to surprise me though. Of course, I immediately refunded this guy, blocked his access and moved along. It's just one of those things that irks you sometimes, you know?

      And you're right - they will continue through the cycle, buying and filing claims to get their money back on the next product, only to amass a collection of unused information and still complain about how they are having trouble earning cash online.

      Their loss, right?
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    • Profile picture of the author exsuit
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      These are the people who are too gutless to email and ask for a refund. I just laugh and move on. They are the idiots who will still be here in 5 years making zero money online. Karma takes care of those people so I don't have to.
      Well said.

      I used to get frustrated as well, but take it as part of the "biz" now and treat it like WillR does.
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    • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      These are the people who are too gutless to email and ask for a refund. I just laugh and move on. They are the idiots who will still be here in 5 years making zero money online. Karma takes care of those people so I don't have to.
      Very true.

      However, what annoys me about a chargeback instead of just asking for a refund like a normal person would, is that paypal can use chargebacks as one of their criteria for closing/freezing your account.
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      • Profile picture of the author J Bold
        Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

        Very true.

        However, what annoys me about a chargeback instead of just asking for a refund like a normal person would, is that paypal can use chargebacks as one of their criteria for closing/freezing your account.
        Not to mention that if is a CC chargeback there's a huge feel involved. So you end up paying money because somebody bought your product. Sucks big time.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel LaRusso
        Even beyond the vendor being presumed guilty, I've PROVEN as a vendor that somebody who did one of those "unaurhorized purchases" on PayPal did willingly click, enter a coupon code, enter their PayPal info, and download my product. I showed a digital trail on all of these, and still lost. Pretty crappy.


        Originally Posted by cosmokid View Post

        This is the problem. The VENDOR is always presumed guilty by Paypal for these types of transactions. Add that to trying to sell into the IM niche, and all you're doing is putting a neon sign over your head at Paypal saying "Please freeze my account."

        I do hope Warriors are finally getting the point that the whole using Paypal for WSO's thing is a house of cards that is already starting to fall down and more and more vendors (completely respectable and wonderful content publishers) are going to lose their income streams if they continue to use Paypal for WSO's. How much money can you afford to have frozen for six to fourteen months when you've just launched a WSO, attracted affiliates whom you pay via Paypal's Mass Pay, and so forth?

        House of cards, folks, house of cards.
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Kennedy
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      These are the people who are too gutless to email and ask for a refund. I just laugh and move on. They are the idiots who will still be here in 5 years making zero money online. Karma takes care of those people so I don't have to.
      Pretty much this. The same people who file for refunds only a few minutes after purchase are usually the people who want a push button system to make them 7 figures over night and are not willing to put in any effort.

      These are the people who think IM is a "get rich quick" market. As WillR said, just laugh and move on because you know that 5 years from now they'll still be doing the same thing and making the same threads about how they can't make a cent online.
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    • Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      These are the people who are too gutless to email and ask for a refund. I just laugh and move on. They are the idiots who will still be here in 5 years making zero money online. Karma takes care of those people so I don't have to.
      Couldn't agree more WillR.
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    • Profile picture of the author Troy Broussard
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      These are the people who are too gutless to email and ask for a refund. I just laugh and move on. They are the idiots who will still be here in 5 years making zero money online. Karma takes care of those people so I don't have to.
      Perfect attitude and I couldn't agree more... It is "tough" though at times...

      Like the guy who bought last week and the next day filed a dispute over the charge 'cuz he wanted his money back but never even filed a refund request.

      I kindly informed him that we had a no questions asked refund policy and that a dispute wasn't necessary and the dude fires off the F*bomb at me...

      You bite your tongue, try to laugh it off and do just exactly what WillR said - realize that those idiots are never gonna get anywhere anyway and you just have to let karma take over...
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      • Profile picture of the author Alan Ashwood
        Originally Posted by Troy Broussard View Post

        Perfect attitude and I couldn't agree more... It is "tough" though at times...

        Like the guy who bought last week and the next day filed a dispute over the charge 'cuz he wanted his money back but never even filed a refund request.

        I kindly informed him that we had a no questions asked refund policy and that a dispute wasn't necessary and the dude fires off the F*bomb at me...

        You bite your tongue, try to laugh it off and do just exactly what WillR said - realize that those idiots are never gonna get anywhere anyway and you just have to let karma take over...
        I'm appalled that people need to be so unpleasant. There's no need for that behaviour.

        While we're all quick to criticise vendors who supply garbage, there's very little defence of you poor honest souls trying to make an honest crust.

        I have actually written blog posts advising newbies to excercise their right to refund if something's no good, but I always follow it up by telling them not to be serial refunders.

        It's unprofessional, inconsiderate, selfish and dishonest. Arseoles.

        I am not a product vendor, but I can entirely sympathise with your position. I didn't actually relize it was so rife.

        Cheers

        Alan

        PS. Americans and Canadians. Please replace s's with z's where necessary. I'm English and spell things proper.
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    • Profile picture of the author rickfrazier1
      The whole issue of "serial refunders" has bothered me for some time.

      I know there are folks out there that will "buy" and immediately request refund after download, but without sellers sharing this information, you really can't tell who is a serial refunder and who isn't, unless you sell a lot of products and see the same person doing it again and again to you.

      I know it is a real problem because I've seen it myself, and really like the ability to block these folks if you use WSO Pro. Now, I think it is out of line to block someone the first time they refund, but after the second time, you really gotta consider it.

      In the first place, when I buy something from a vendor, if it doesn't meet the hype of the sales page and I request a refund, you can bet It's going to take a LOT of positive reviews from others I trust before I'll even look at the offer.

      Time was, I'd buy something and if it didn't turn out to be what the ad copy claimed it to be, I just chalked it up to reading too much into the ad copy, or a potential misunderstanding on my part. A pretty large chunk of cash later, and more products deleted from my hard drive in disgust, I developed a different attitude altogether. I really got tired of being taken advantage of, and decided I'd refund anything that didn't meet my expectations (exectations that were set by the vendor's ad copy...) Also, I've taken the "once bitten, twice shy" approach. Lie to me once, get me to buy something that doesn't meet the promises, and I'll not likely buy from that vendor again.

      So far, I haven't taken the approach of making a public post requesting refund along with detailed reasons, but it's almost inevitable that someday I'll crack and do so if the ripoff is egregious enough. Hopefully, I'll never see the day, but unless the current trends turn back towards honesty and transparency, I'm not holding my breath.

      It is clear there are folks out there that are using a no questions asked guarantee as a means to receive a refund and keep the product. The folks that do this intentionally (with no intent of actually buying the product) are essentially stealing the product, and this is the real root of the problem. There are a ton of people that feel the world owes them everything, and that they can take anything they want without recourse. Unfortunately, our society has exposed an increasing number of these folks, and it is difficult to tell if there are really a higher percentage of them than before, or the current environment just makes them more obvious.
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  • Profile picture of the author ProvenViral
    It gets really annoying when that happens. You will always get people like that and there will always be freeloaders who want something for nothing. That's why alot of my products I have a protection over those type of things. Put up a privacy policy in where you have your refund policy clearly stated.
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by ProvenViral View Post

      That's why alot of my products I have a protection over those type of things. Put up a privacy policy in where you have your refund policy clearly stated.
      It doesn't matter what your refund policy is. If they go directly through Paypal or Clickbank then you don't have much of a leg to stand on - especially when they claim it is an unauthorized transaction.
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      • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

        It doesn't matter what your refund policy is. If they go directly through Paypal or Clickbank then you don't have much of a leg to stand on - especially when they claim it is an unauthorized transaction.
        Yep - the likelihood of you keeping the money if they pull the "unauthorized transaction" BS is pretty much zero
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      • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

        It doesn't matter what your refund policy is. If they go directly through Paypal or Clickbank then you don't have much of a leg to stand on - especially when they claim it is an unauthorized transaction.
        I've won unauthorized transaction claims w/ PayPal and all "not as described"

        Really wish people would stop telling that.

        -g
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        • Profile picture of the author WillR
          Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

          I've won unauthorized transaction claims w/ PayPal and all "not as described"

          Really wish people would stop telling that.

          -g
          Yes, you can win them but it's more a case of guilty until proven innocent with Paypal. They will almost always side with the customer first. Especially if you are selling a WSO the last thing you want to do is draw any further attention from Paypal to your WSO as they don't like IM products. Often it is easier to just give in and move on. The customers know this and thus why they do it.
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          • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
            Originally Posted by WillR View Post

            Yes, you can win them but it's more a case of guilty until proven innocent with Paypal. They will almost always side with the customer first. Especially if you are selling a WSO the last thing you want to do is draw any attention from Paypal to your WSO as they don't like IM products. Often it is easier to just give in and move on.
            I've won a few unauthorized when I've had the IP.

            As to "PayPal not liking IM," no proof of that. None at all. The TOS even gives guidelines to follow. Of course I dont sell as much MMO w/ PayPal now because some of the employees are quick to pull the trigger.

            And to drawing attention to your WSO, if you are worried about it then:

            1. Tone done the copy.
            2. Ask PayPal to review it. I have and unlike CB, they tell you what to remove.

            Better yet, maybe you shouldn't be running it if you are worried about them seeing it.

            Garrie
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            • Profile picture of the author WillR
              Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

              As to "PayPal not liking IM," no proof of that. None at all. The TOS even gives guidelines to follow.
              Must be MY eyes deceiving me then...

              "You also agree not to use your PayPal account to sell goods with delivery dates delayed more than 20 days from the date of payment, or to sell securities, business opportunities, franchises or multi-level marketing or goods with delivery delayed more than 20 days from the date of payment."
              If you don't believe me then have a quick look around the forum at all the threads lately where those selling Make Money Online products have had their Paypal accounts frozen for breach of their terms.

              You just proved one of the bigger problems. Too many people do NOT read their terms of conditions and then come crying when the terms are later enforced upon them.
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    • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
      Originally Posted by ProvenViral View Post

      It gets really annoying when that happens. You will always get people like that and there will always be freeloaders who want something for nothing. That's why alot of my products I have a protection over those type of things. Put up a privacy policy in where you have your refund policy clearly stated.
      I do this with every product. My refund policy is always clear as can be. You're not satisfied with the product? E-mail me requesting a refund and I'll process it - no worries.

      BUT - if you're not satisfied immediately after purchase and you want to go through the hassle of putting up a PayPal claim? That, my friend, is frowned upon. I can understand if you filed a claim after you requested a refund and you didn't receive a response for 5 to 7 days, but doing so immediately after your transaction shows that you just wanted to take advantage of the "loophole" so to speak, getting the product for free.

      The other thing that's bad lately is all of the people who request reviews, even when it's clear that no review copies are to be given. When did all of that start? I get PM's all of the time for people looking for review copies of my current WSO. What's the point - so they can get a free product they will never use and will leave feedback in my thread like, "This is an awesome product - I highly recommend it!"
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Sorrell
        What's also funny/annoying are the people who refund the same day and then email a week later asking for support. That cracks me up.
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        • Profile picture of the author ProvenViral
          Originally Posted by Chris Sorrell View Post

          What's also funny/annoying are the people who refund the same day and then email a week later asking for support. That cracks me up.
          Hahaha that's really funny - the nerves of people who do that lol ...

          As long as you can prove that you've provided them the product or service you can always be in the favor.
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        • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
          Originally Posted by Chris Sorrell View Post

          What's also funny/annoying are the people who refund the same day and then email a week later asking for support. That cracks me up.
          I have a cure for those... it's called "provide the wrong advice"
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      • Profile picture of the author WillR
        Originally Posted by bhuff85 View Post

        The other thing that's bad lately is all of the people who request reviews, even when it's clear that no review copies are to be given. When did all of that start? I get PM's all of the time for people looking for review copies of my current WSO. What's the point - so they can get a free product they will never use and will leave feedback in my thread like, "This is an awesome product - I highly recommend it!"
        Make sure you report those PM's by clicking on the report button so the mods can see and take action against those people. It's the only way they will learn.
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  • Profile picture of the author turryrunner
    That's why, if you're offering a free trial, you should never sign up with a site without researching it thoroughly. There are many sites that will promote your free trial and pay people to try it. As soon as the payment hits their account they will cancel.
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    • Profile picture of the author rickfrazier1
      Originally Posted by turryrunner View Post

      That's why, if you're offering a free trial, you should never sign up with a site without researching it thoroughly. There are many sites that will promote your free trial and pay people to try it. As soon as the payment hits their account they will cancel.
      Another thing is the huge number of requests to promote your product as an affiliate, when they are really looking for a freebie.

      I had one WSO that got more offers to be an affiliate than it got sales...
      Funny how nobody was interested suddenly after I proposed: Buy the product, promote it and I'll refund after 5 affiliate sales... Got no response to email/pm from about half of them, a "no thanks" from most of rest, and one that basically said he wouldn't promote for anyone that didn't provide a freebie up front. He would have been more honest if he'd just asked for a "review copy".

      You get all kinds if you're in this business long enough ! !
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
    Originally Posted by bhuff85 View Post

    - People that buy a product for $5 and submit a PayPal claim for an "unauthorized transaction".
    PayPal needs to examine those claims more closely, in my opinion.

    I mean, what are the odds that I am going to notice an unauthorized transaction within seconds, even minutes, of it occurring?

    And, in the case of a serial refunder, they are going to have a lot of such claims. Again, what are the odds that you're going to have a bunch of unauthorized transactions on your account, over a period of time, and you just happen to catch them within seconds or minutes of them occurring each and every time?
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  • Profile picture of the author ProvenViral
    It doesn't look good when you have alot of those transactions on your account. Make sure that you contest those refunds with your proof that they've purchased. Also show them your refund policy on your website.
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    • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
      Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

      Very true.

      However, what annoys me about a chargeback instead of just asking for a refund like a normal person would, is that paypal can use chargebacks as one of their criteria for closing/freezing your account.
      I agree. While I don't have a lot of them, they still look bad on your account. It's just another small thing that annoys me, especially when the refund policy is there for people to take advantage of if they truly do not want the product or know it's not for them.

      Originally Posted by ProvenViral View Post

      It doesn't look good when you have alot of those transactions on your account. Make sure that you contest those refunds with your proof that they've purchased. Also show them your refund policy on your website.
      PayPal isn't a big fan of digital products. Like WillR said, it's essentially a one-sided battle when you deal with things like this. That's why I chose to give the refund and move on. If $5 is that important that you have to file an unauthorized claim to get it back, I'd rather get it to you then try to put up a battle with PayPal as the mediator, all for a crisp Abraham Lincoln...
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I don't use WSO Pro and I don't have a problem with serial refunders either. I use DLGuard for product delivery and it has the option to ban people by IP and by email and it gives you the IP of the purchaser/refunder. I use it and ban both by IP and email when I issue a refund. They never get the chance to do it again.
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  • Profile picture of the author magnates
    Originally Posted by bhuff85 View Post

    There are two things that drive me absolutely crazy:

    - People who purchase a product and e-mail you 1 minute after purchase letting you know that the product "was not right for them" and request a refund

    - People that buy a product for $5 and submit a PayPal claim for an "unauthorized transaction".

    I mean, really? Rather than just send an e-mail requesting a refund, you want to go through the trouble of opening a PayPal claim for $5? I guess this is the stuff we have to deal with as vendors. These are probably the same folks who eat half a hamburger at McDonalds and take it back to complain about the taste to try to get their money back. They've already consumed some of it, so why not try to milk the system a little more if you're able to do so?

    Anyway, that's my rant for the day. Thankfully in WSO Pro you can block access, but it's usually too late by that point anyway.
    Without sounding too harsh , I want to say stop moaning dude . Just like you have people unsubcribe from your list even if you give the best that you know that works , people would ask for refunds .

    Some people just want to take advantage of your kindness . As look as you bring in the quality , not making over the top promises and give numerous bonuses . Refund rate would be low .

    It is just part of things . Some people would just refund

    You can decide to stop offering refunds and back it up with good reasons not

    Sorry dude . Know what it is like .

    Gets on ones nerves sometimes
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by magnates View Post

      Without sounding too harsh , I want to say stop moaning dude . Just like you have people unsubcribe from your list even if you give the best that you know that works , people would ask for refunds .

      Some people just want to take advantage of your kindness . As look as you bring in the quality , not making over the top promises and give numerous bonuses . Refund rate would be low .

      It is just part of things . Some people would just refund

      You can decide to stop offering refunds and back it up with good reasons not

      Sorry dude . Know what it is like .

      Gets on ones nerves sometimes
      The OP isn't complaining about refunds as such... instead those people who don't have the decency to ask for a refund and just go straight through Paypal. Those are the idiots we are talking about and who can very easily ruin your reputation with Paypal simply because they are too tight to pay for a product they purchased.
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    • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
      Originally Posted by magnates View Post

      Without sounding too harsh , I want to say stop moaning dude . Just like you have people unsubcribe from your list even if you give the best that you know that works , people would ask for refunds .

      Some people just want to take advantage of your kindness . As look as you bring in the quality , not making over the top promises and give numerous bonuses . Refund rate would be low .

      It is just part of things . Some people would just refund

      You can decide to stop offering refunds and back it up with good reasons not

      Sorry dude . Know what it is like .

      Gets on ones nerves sometimes
      I know what you mean - The reason for the rant, however, is that there are ways to be a better customer, too. Comparing an "unauthorized transaction" claim that happened minutes after a purchase to someone unsubscribing from your list doesn't really work in this scenario, though.

      You said "some people would just refund" - that's precisely what I did. It's not worth the trouble to fight a claim for $5. All I'm saying is that there was a simple refund option for the buyer to choose, which they would have received a prompt refund and then could have moved along their way.

      Unneccessary PayPal claims can cause issues on both sides of the table, especially with prices that are this low.
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  • Profile picture of the author Norma Rickman
    Originally Posted by bhuff85 View Post


    Anyway, that's my rant for the day. Thankfully in WSO Pro you can block access, but it's usually too late by that point anyway.
    Awesome rant! Loved it. I have had the same experience lately. I just released a WSO that has 10 content modules and 14 videos, yet after just 10 minutes after signing up they wanted refunds because they just knew it was exactly the same as some other person's product.

    I mean really! I read fast, but I couldn't go through 80+ pages of content, a resource guide, a quick start guide and 14 videos that fast.
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveDolan
      Originally Posted by Norma Rickman View Post

      I mean really! I read fast, but I couldn't go through 80+ pages of content, a resource guide, a quick start guide and 14 videos that fast.
      That's because they just read (and got a refund on) my speed reading/watching course
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  • Profile picture of the author Mo Goulet
    With the PayPal seller protection, all you need to do is drop your product on a CD (0.30), mail it to the customer first class (0.71) with signature receipt (1.35) They can only win if they go through Visa/mc. You could even do the same thing cheaper by sending them a letter the same way with a think you for purchasing and they need to sign for it. If they are going to be nasty, you can fight it. The letter and sig will only cost you about $2.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jaymark
    Yes I sympathize with you. That's a problem with digital information. Once they have the file, it's not like having a product they need to return. If they file for a refund they still get the benefit of the information and you are out of a sale.

    I think Clickbank has some type of policy where they disable someones account if they do this too often. But it is certainly a common problem and I wish there were better solutions for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hardy Chou
    The fact of the matter is it is the cost of doing business online with digital downloadable products. Therefore, you need to factor into your business plan about 20% refund rate on sales. That way, you will not go crazy every time someone asks you for refund.

    Originally Posted by bhuff85 View Post

    There are two things that drive me absolutely crazy:

    - People who purchase a product and e-mail you 1 minute after purchase letting you know that the product "was not right for them" and request a refund

    - People that buy a product for $5 and submit a PayPal claim for an "unauthorized transaction".

    I mean, really? Rather than just send an e-mail requesting a refund, you want to go through the trouble of opening a PayPal claim for $5? I guess this is the stuff we have to deal with as vendors. These are probably the same folks who eat half a hamburger at McDonalds and take it back to complain about the taste to try to get their money back. They've already consumed some of it, so why not try to milk the system a little more if you're able to do so?
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    • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
      Originally Posted by Hardy Chou View Post

      The fact of the matter is it is the cost of doing business online with digital downloadable products. Therefore, you need to factor into your business plan about 20% refund rate on sales. That way, you will not go crazy every time someone asks you for refund.
      Hey Hardy,

      Thanks for the feedback. I don't go crazy over refunds in general. And, you're right that you have to expect them, especially in this business.

      However, the point I was trying to make here is that if you're going to ask for a refund, follow the refund policies (i.e. send a quick e-mail within "x" number of days and request your refund), rather than file an "unauthorized claim" within seconds of purchasing/downloading the product.

      While I know that we should always factor in refund rates with the cost of doing business, one thing we shouldn't have to factor in are unnecessary "unauthorized transaction" claims like this when a simple e-mail with a refund request would've sufficed. If anything, I hope this thread shows other buyers how easy it is to get a refund without pulling tricks like this, as it could also have varying consequences for them in the end, too.
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      • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
        Originally Posted by bhuff85 View Post

        However, the point I was trying to make here is that if you're going to ask for a refund, follow the refund policies (i.e. send a quick e-mail within "x" number of days and request your refund), rather than file an "unauthorized claim" within seconds of purchasing/downloading the product.
        Agreed. I have no problem sending someone a refund if they have flicked me an email to say that the product was not what they were after.

        It is just plain rude to just immediately file a claim with PayPal and have your first notice be PayPal sending you an agro email about someone filing a dispute
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  • Profile picture of the author shmeeko69
    Originally Posted by bhuff85 View Post

    There are two things that drive me absolutely crazy:

    - People who purchase a product and e-mail you 1 minute after purchase letting you know that the product "was not right for them" and request a refund

    - People that buy a product for $5 and submit a PayPal claim for an "unauthorized transaction".

    I mean, really? Rather than just send an e-mail requesting a refund, you want to go through the trouble of opening a PayPal claim for $5? I guess this is the stuff we have to deal with as vendors. These are probably the same folks who eat half a hamburger at McDonalds and take it back to complain about the taste to try to get their money back. They've already consumed some of it, so why not try to milk the system a little more if you're able to do so?

    Anyway, that's my rant for the day. Thankfully in WSO Pro you can block access, but it's usually too late by that point anyway.
    You're spot on and as a vendor of both Clickbank and Paydotcom products I've experienced both situations. Clickbank and there crazy 60 day no quibble guarantee and Paypal's pathetic resolution facility, which is open to all sorts of abuse and they'll always side with the buyer's claims as they don't want the hassle.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author indalor1
    I have seen a lot of people mention these things and have to wonder if there is actually anything that can be done to cut down on the freeloaders?

    The only real answer I have seen so far is to set up your product as an e-course,dishing out a little information each week, and make sure the customers don't get too much for free before the time limit on refunds is up.

    Are there other ways of working around the freeloaders?
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  • Profile picture of the author Warlock12
    Some people are just out there trying to get over on others. No matter what your niche is you will run into people like this.
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  • Profile picture of the author absolutelee
    These people are not worth the negative energy you spend worrying about them. I just refund the money, etc, and don't give it a second thought.
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    • Profile picture of the author Warlock12
      Originally Posted by absolutelee View Post

      These people are not worth the negative energy you spend worrying about them. I just refund the money, etc, and don't give it a second thought.
      That is a good solution to the problem. It is just annoying having to deal with it. However, some things we just cannot change.
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    I get even by putting a curse on them... condemning all of the
    children in the next 20 generation of their family to really,
    really ugly... then I move on

    They are a part of doing business, and I do block them where
    practical, but that's not always possible.

    Willie
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy Money
    Lots of great approaches to this problem. Either don't offer refunds and make that clear prior to purchase (I've never seen a difference in conversions) or issue refunds but don't be so hung up on it (anyone who serial refunds is someone who doesn't have the skill/perseverance to make real money online anyway, IMO).
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    • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
      Originally Posted by Andrew Maule View Post

      Lots of great approaches to this problem. Either don't offer refunds and make that clear prior to purchase (I've never seen a difference in conversions) or issue refunds but don't be so hung up on it (anyone who serial refunds is someone who doesn't have the skill/perseverance to make real money online anyway, IMO).
      We're beating a dead horse here and this will probably be my last post on this, but as I mentioned many times before, it's not the fact of issuing refunds that I pointed out as the problem - it's those who file a PayPal claim within seconds of downloading products that is the problem.

      Again, if a regular refund request comes through, I honor that with no questions asked, per my policy. No one likes refunds, but if that's your guarantee, you stick by it.

      In other words, when the "unauthorized transactions" come through, it's almost comparable to someone who bought a TV on their credit card, took it home and then said, "You know, I think I'll keep this TV and give my card company a ring to let them know that someone stole my card and bought this with it so I can get my money back and keep this TV." Of course, with a credit card company this wouldn't happen. PayPal is another story...

      Overall, that's what happens when we sell digital goods via PayPal. Just felt like sharing my frustration with others who could relate. I know it's part of the business, but I hope that these type of buyers eventually get their accounts locked at some point for their antics.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    I think you are wasting too much time on minutia. All businesses have a lot of piddly issues that come up, but in the course of business don't amount to a hell of a lot. In the digital delivery business you are going to run into this because of the nature of people. There are a certain percentage that are just a$$holes. Just move on to the business of selling your merchandise and dispense with these jerks and quit worrying about them. There is not a hell of a lot you can do about them, other than ban them from your product purchases. They must amount to only a very small percentage of your business. So concentrate on the larger percentage that makes you money, and expand that part.

    As they say, don't sweat the petty stuff, or was it, don't pet the sweaty stuff.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Hocking
      You could try reporting the immediate refund activity to clickbank.

      Clickbank may or may not block them from using clickbank in the future but it is against their terms to request to many refunds.

      FAQ Returns - ClickBank
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      • Profile picture of the author Charles Jones
        one thing to remember when dealing with customers in the low price point arena....the cheaper your price, the more work you will have form those customers....this includes refunds.

        One way to combat this is to raise your purchase price a bit....cut out the bottom 10% that are just bottom feeders.

        #2 - sign up with a merchant account, have a decent site that is no a one pager and take Credit Cards....stop using Paypal if they refund with little or no investigation. I know people will say that "no one will buy if I don't allow Paypal"......well I don't on any of my sites right now.

        State your terms and conditions clearly....I put the NO REFUNDS for dealgoblin right in BIG BOLD print. they also have to check off that they agree to the terms and conditions BEFORE they can complete the checkout. That way if they file a dispute with VI/MC, then I just send that little tidbit over along with a copy of the terms and conditions.....99% of the time....I win.

        REMIND them in on your receipts about your refund policy. That way it is right there in black and while. They cannot say they did not understand or anything....if you do this in conjunction with the terms and conditions check off in the cart...this is 2X they saw it.

        #3 - if CLickbank is such a PITA...and it is....use something else. Pick up post affilliate pro or idevaffiliate and add it to your site. It is not that much money and you don't have to worry about a 3rd party F'in g with your returns...you have control.

        Just my 2 cents. Too many people take the easy way (clickbank, ejunkie, ect) instead of handling their offers themselves. This cuts down on returns and all sorts of other issues. Use a quality host, a good cart, and some precautions.

        Good Luck!!
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  • i never refund products, even tho i have had some really bad ones!! Thats life tho! For the price we get them here its hard to complain! This is a community and we are all on the same boat, just at different levels... obviously if i get a bad product i wont get any of their future products...
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  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    I think we need to start thinking of creating a software where we can put our product inside and when someone asked for a refund, the software will just stop working so they can't use out product. What I mean is, products like ebooks and videos....
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    • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
      Originally Posted by Adie View Post

      I think we need to start thinking of creating a software where we can put our product inside and when someone asked for a refund, the software will just stop working so they can't use out product. What I mean is, products like ebooks and videos....

      Such software already exists.

      Some marketers view making their customer jump through
      too many hoops to use a product also as unacceptable though.

      It depends upon the value of the product, and etc.

      I imagine most of such products require being connected to
      the internet to use since the product would need to verify
      that it's being used by an authorized user.... each time that
      it's open. That's too cumbersome for most ebooks... to me.

      Willie
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      • Profile picture of the author Laurie Rogers
        Originally Posted by Willie Crawford View Post

        Such software already exists.

        Some marketers view making their customer jump through
        too many hoops to use a product also as unacceptable though.

        It depends upon the value of the product, and etc.

        I imagine most of such products require being connected to
        the internet to use since the product would need to verify
        that it's being used by an authorized user.... each time that
        it's open. That's too cumbersome for most ebooks... to me.

        Willie

        They have protection like this on some wordpress theme's too ... if you remove any of the links that are inserted on the bottom (ie: designer links) .. the theme doesn't work.
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    • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
      Originally Posted by Adie View Post

      I think we need to start thinking of creating a software where we can put our product inside and when someone asked for a refund, the software will just stop working so they can't use out product. What I mean is, products like ebooks and videos....
      Adie

      Last year launched some security software and we had all of 5 refunds but unknown to me at the time was the creator of the product ( biz partner) use some code that if anyone tried to change the coding it would delete there hard drive.

      he look after refunds and he told me that one of the people purchased the software had put it on a file sharing site , ( this is the best bit) as soon as they tried to use the software and because of a hack they used I have been informed that it did delete about 20 HDs so sometime you can have revenge on the re funders.

      Jason
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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    I've had a site up and running since 2007.

    It's got over 142,000 posts on the forums, 100's and 100's of videos, 5 techniques in the first month, tons of webinar recordings and tools galore.

    I've had ONE alien, (it couldn't have been a real person), request a refund for his $1 on the trial, saying it wasn't worth a dollar.

    A DOLLAR.

    I did refund him and I don't even argue anymore because some people will never get it no matter what you do or say.

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  • Profile picture of the author baokhau
    This state may be happen from day to day by selling digital products. The customers want to get the product but not losing money. I think if the vendor dont want to refund, he can make a notice to paypal about this nuisance.
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  • Why are you not blacklisting them?
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    • Profile picture of the author affiliatemoin
      Some times even genuine people request the refunds... so you cannot be sure of whom you are blacklisting.
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      • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
        Originally Posted by affiliatemoin View Post

        Some times even genuine people request the refunds... so you cannot be sure of whom you are blacklisting.
        ...And geniune requests are always fulfilled without question. If I receve a detailed request after some time, I know that the person at least TRIED to get something out of it. It's those "not what I needed - please refund immediately" requests about 2 minutes after their purchase that are not geniune.
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  • Profile picture of the author scubasteve-cr
    Let me play devil's advocate just for a moment here.

    Are you being upfront about what it is that you're selling? It seems to me like the latest fashionable craze is to sell the dream, pure hype, without telling people what it is that you're actually selling them. Too many times we see in sales copy what we're NOT buying, but that doesn't help.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Originally Posted by WillR View Post

    Must be MY eyes deceiving me then...
    Must be as that's from 2003.

    https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?c...locale.x=en_US

    has:

    3.relate to transactions that (a) show the personal information of third parties in violation of applicable law, (b) support pyramid or ponzi schemes, matrix programs, other “get rich quick” schemes or certain multi-level marketing programs, (c) are associated with purchases of real property, annuities or lottery contracts, lay-away systems, off-shore banking or transactions to finance or refinance debts funded by a credit card, (d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item, (e) are by payment processors to collect payments on behalf of merchants, (f), are associated with the following Money Service Business activities: the sale of traveler’s checks or money orders, currency exchanges or check cashing,or (g) provide certain credit repair or debt settlement services
    I know. I know. You will now argue over "get rich quick" but that's not an issue unless you make hyped up, over-exagerated claims. Like many/most WSOs.

    If you don't believe me then have a quick look around the forum at all the threads lately where those selling Make Money Online products have had their Paypal accounts frozen for breach of their terms.
    Because people are always right on forums. :rolleyes:

    I did once too for that reason. Within 48 hours, PayPal said "sorry our mistake"

    You just proved one of the bigger problems. Too many people do NOT read their terms of conditions and then come crying when the terms are later enforced upon them.
    No. I think you proved that. Here's the URL to the AUP for you to review.

    https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?c...locale.x=en_US
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    It's inevitable that there are many folks who simply want to get something for free, while they apply the techniques they have learnt and come back later to sell it to others, unfortuante but this is some of the bad seeds in the IM game
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    PayPal defines "Get Rich Quick" as:

    "Get rich quick" schemes – Include any type of self-employment, start-up business, or investment opportunity where the claims of profit or returns on investment are unrealistic or unsupported.
    From: https://www.paypal.com/helpcenter/ma...030&isSrch=Yes
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  • Profile picture of the author Jake Gray
    I hear you man. People like that seriously need to disappear off this
    planet. Ones who are intentionally trying to screw someone over. They
    definitely don't think how it can effect us nor do I think they care.

    However you look at it, there are some messed up people in this world.
    I have to give you props for having the guts to bring up this topic for sure
    man.

    Jake
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  • Profile picture of the author howto
    Maybe they just didn't like your product and just could be getting a refund that way because they can't be bothered waiting for email corespondance. I'm not condoning their actions just saying that most people can't be bothered emailing back and forward waiting for a refund.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    I had someone file a refund request on one of my products just recently. The customer said "It didnt meet my expectations" This is on a product that I've been selling for over 2 years, with less than a dozen of refund requests in that time.

    Naturally, I followed up with a polite email asking for some form of feedback or suggestions on how I could "improve my product" ....I never heard back.

    Out of interest, I facebooked the customers email account and found the person.

    Lets just say that their wall was wide open to public view and what I read infuriated me.

    I dont mind genuine refund requests, but people abusing the system - its lousy.

    Many of us vendors spend thousands putting these products together, and guess what?

    We've got bills to pay just like you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
    Serial refunders don't bother me at all anymore. When I get a refund DEMAND... Not a request... Their information get's added to my do not do business with database.

    My product download delivery script checks this database... If someone is in it... They get a... Sorry... A problem has occurred with your order and an operator has been notified to manually process your order. A highly valuable bonus product will be included in your order for the inconvenience. (This stops them from doing a instant PayPal dispute since they are going to get something extra.)

    Then of course I do a refund and they don't get the product. Pisses them off but works like a charm.

    I actually tried to market a product that did this and used a database of serial refunders from all marketers involved and had lot's of talk but zero interest. Seems like most Internet Marketers like to complain but don't want to put in the effort to stop the serial refunder.

    Re's
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    • Profile picture of the author davezan
      Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant View Post

      I actually tried to market a product that did this and used a database of serial refunders from all marketers involved and had lot's of talk but zero interest. Seems like most Internet Marketers like to complain but don't want to put in the effort to stop the serial refunder.
      You mean like a database of serial refunders where a marketer logs in, searches
      using a name or email, then poof gets a result? I believe it's been discussed here
      a couple of times, many of which conclude there are legal issues not many seem
      willing to risk.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
        Originally Posted by davezan View Post

        You mean like a database of serial refunders where a marketer logs in, searches
        using a name or email, then poof gets a result? I believe it's been discussed here
        a couple of times, many of which conclude there are legal issues not many seem
        willing to risk.
        It was a central database that you entered the email address of any refunders in. Individual users of the database set their download scripts to access this central database and it would return the number of refunds associated with a particular email address.

        Then YOU would decide when to block a sale. At 1 refund, 2, 3, 4, or more. Or to simply alert you of the number of refunds.

        The database did not block the sale directly or make the decision for you. You do.

        Re's
        Rob Whisonant
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  • Profile picture of the author pmbrent
    I've run into this issue as well and it's a loophole in Paypal and more and more people are learning about it and taking advantage of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author devogolf
    I suppose people wouldn't ask for a refund if the product was good...the problem recently is that there is so much crap out there...!!! Do your research on the WF and then the products you buy will not have to be refunded...Is that too simple...???
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  • Profile picture of the author Gimitrix
    People like to take advantage if they discovered the loophole.
    Paypal gives money back too fast. (investigation process is not enforced)
    Why did these guys buy in the firsty place?
    People are spending money they dont have.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    It's just business.

    I just send the refund and keep the emails in one list. Too bad WSO PRO doesn't have a way to block these emails, IP's - just like DL Guard.

    Edit: Paypal, WSO PRO and all the other systems SHOULD HAVE the option to insert "bad" emails. Simple.
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  • Profile picture of the author RAGolko
    If there is a refund policy there will be refund requests and people who abuse it, that's a given. It's something we all have to deal with in order to raise the confidence of other people to buy our products and services.

    But another side of the coin is the "BIG MYSTERY" sales pitch. You know, the ones that promise the moon, have payment 'proof' which cannot be verified by looking at a screen shot or video, and then they only tell you want this product is NOT. It's not PPC, it's not PPV, it's not this, it's not that... WHAT THE HECK IS IT THEN? Buy it and find out. You've got a 60 day money back guarantee! No risk!

    When I go to a store, I don't see a bunch of boxes in the aisles with "GUESS WHAT THIS IS! YOU'll BE COMPLETELY SATISIFED BECAUSE 1000000 PEOPLE ALREADY WERE, AND IF NOT YOU HAVE 60 DAYS TO GET YOUR MONEY BACK -- BUT I'M NOT TELLING YOU WHAT YOU'RE BUYING -- AND DON'T DARE REALLY ACT ON THE MONEY BACK GUARANTEE OR I WILL BAN YOU FROM FURTHER PURCHASES."

    How about this one...
    "Secret method to add 700 targeted subscribers to your list within 48 hours -- guaranteed or your money back!... It's not Facebook, it's not Twitter, it's not Ad Swaps... etc. etc."
    Loads of proof from the EWebber account... the dude's done it day after day afetr day! ClickBank screenshot of earnigs from mailing the list afterwards...

    I bought it because I really do want to ad subscribers to my list... what could this 'secret method" be? After 4 pages of junk about why you need an email list I got to the big 'secret'...
    put a little video up on youtube with text that says "GUESS WHAT I WAS DOING WHEN MY WIFE CAUGHT ME! CLICK THE LINK BELOW TO FIND OUT" ... and then you redirect them to the lead capture page and they have to enter their email before you tell them some bull****.

    MONEY BACK PLEASE! That's not a targeted list unless you want perverts! I doubt if it even works! I'm not trying to find out!

    I have kept 90% of the products I've purchased but with WSO's flying at you several a day, and with so much repetition, you don't often know what you get until you've purchased it because of the 'myster content' ads. So if I buy your product and I've got other products with the same content, don't be surprised if I ask for money back, even if your product is good. Why should I keep it if I didn't know what the content was and it duplicated what I already have? Make your ad clearer in that case.

    Some of what I've bought is honestly just crap. Once I bought a WSO the second time by mistake and the guy has just ignored my refund request for the second purchase -- even though I said he could replace it with another WSO. He ignored two requests... Another one I bought without a refund offer was so lame it wasn't worth the digital ink it was printed on. I asked for a refund and of course never heard from him.

    There's courses being sold that tell you to scrape other people's content, change the wording and sell your own product as original. Well those two products still have the same content and probably have the same content-concealing sales pitch.

    The advertising really gets me when you have to guess what it is but you've been teased to the limits to buy it to find out.

    Those who open PayPal issues instead of asking for refunds should lose their own PayPal accounts for their own fraud. That' is just as unacceptable as Mystery Ads.

    There's my rant. As Jack Nickelson said... "This town needs an enima!"

    Now don't all rush to ban me from buying your WSO's -- I keep those that add valuable content that I don't already have, which is about 90% of the ones I buy because I am as discriminating as I can be with the information given. I pass on many I would otherwise buy if more information was given.
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  • Profile picture of the author NoBSGuy
    The thingy here is to understand the reason why a customer wants his money back, then try to eliminate the root of the problem.

    A feasable reason includes:

    - not unique information

    But you`re right, some people simply purchase with the intension to turn it back.
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      What is deemed "unique information" could be VERY subjective.

      There are many many topics online that are borderline impossible to develop unique information that isn't available elsewhere online, whether for free or in paid products.

      I guess, the BEST products are those that integrate actual highly individualized research and experimentation that isn't available elsewhere. One can only talk about Adsense for so long....products really have to step up there game to be even remotely unique, nowadays.

      Originally Posted by DeLighter View Post

      The thingy here is to understand the reason why a customer wants his money back, then try to eliminate the root of the problem.

      A feasable reason includes:

      - not unique information

      But you`re right, some people simply purchase with the intension to turn it back.
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  • Profile picture of the author reimer
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
      Originally Posted by reimer View Post

      I don`t wanna be the bad guy but if you are selling good products and I mean with "good products":

      Products that theaches real ways to make money... no "making money by selling an ebook that theaches how to make money by selling an ebook about how to make money by selling an ebook about..."

      Products that are not PLR crap.

      Product that works now (2011) not back in 2006!

      Products that teaches practical and proven methods not untested theory of what might work...

      If you are selling quality products that helps people, serial refunders are the last of your worries...

      just my 2 cents
      A good product is always a great idea. But... There is a fairly large group of people that plan of demanding a refund before they even buy your product. They do it over and over to a lot of marketers. They don't care how great your product is. They have ZERO intention on paying for anything they buy. These are the serial refunders.

      Someone that wants an honest refund because the product did not live up to their expectation would not be considered a serial refunder in my mind.

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      Rob Whisonant
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      • Profile picture of the author Troy Broussard
        Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant View Post

        A good product is always a great idea. But... There is a fairly large group of people that plan of demanding a refund before they even buy your product. They do it over and over to a lot of marketers. They don't care how great your product is. They have ZERO intention on paying for anything they buy. These are the serial refunders.

        Someone that wants an honest refund because the product did not live up to their expectation would not be considered a serial refunder in my mind.

        Re's
        Rob Whisonant
        Exactly. And it doesn't matter how good your product is, a serial refunder will still refund it, because, like you said, they really never had any intention of "buying" it in the first place...
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Just got a chargeback. Customer bought my product over a month ago ....sheesh
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    • Profile picture of the author Charles Jones
      I just read today about a website that DOES allow businesses to post about issues with certain people in their business dealings (ie not paying).

      How To Avoid Deadbeat Clients | NicheGeek.com

      What they do to make sure they stay out of trouble is charge a very nominal fee to be a "member" - $5/mo and they do screen for bad posts. The reason they can get around some liability is that they cite -

      "Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act of 1996, which says that, as long as Web site owners don't alter reader comments to make them defamatory, they can't be held liable. The Bodis edit to remove defamatory language from the site, and prohibit profanity and personal insults."

      I bet you could start one of these sites and do it as a membership, require business license number for checking, and have at it with some edits like the above.

      Hey that sounds like a business plan doesn't it??? ::HAHA::

      I saw do it and blacklist those bums.
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Kennedy
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      Just got a chargeback. Customer bought my product over a month ago ....sheesh
      See I just don't understand why people don't ask for a refund beforehand. I mean, at worst you can say "no" and then they have the option to initiate a chargeback and get their money back.

      This industry is so rife with people who always want something for free and want that something to make them millions of dollars with no work.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
        Originally Posted by Scott Kennedy View Post

        See I just don't understand why people don't ask for a refund beforehand. I mean, at worst you can say "no" and then they have the option to initiate a chargeback and get their money back.

        This industry is so rife with people who always want something for free and want that something to make them millions of dollars with no work.
        Thing is...I dont question refund requests. I do however, always ask why, and how I can improve my product. I get feedback at the very least.

        Submitting a chargeback just plain sucks.
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        • Profile picture of the author Scott Kennedy
          Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

          Thing is...I dont question refund requests. I do however, always ask why, and how I can improve my product. I get feedback at the very least.

          Submitting a chargeback just plain sucks.
          If you buy a physical product from a store and you decide you don't want it anymore you don't just initiate a chargeback. You go back to the store and request a refund. Why should this process be any different for digital products?

          Kind of feels like I'm beating a dead horse but it's one of the only things that really annoys me about IM.
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          • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
            Originally Posted by Scott Kennedy View Post

            If you buy a physical product from a store and you decide you don't want it anymore you don't just initiate a chargeback. You go back to the store and request a refund.
            At the store you have to go there (say Present!!) while online serial refunders use the web anonymity to be serial scammers. At the store you'll get brainwashed to keep the product + and most probably you'll have to fill in a questionnaire explaining you want a refund (so that the company can improve the product).

            Why should this process be any different for digital products?
            Exactly... :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
    I sell in many niches and the only niche I get hit by serial refunders is the IM niche. In fact outside the IM niche chargebacks, refund demands and even legitimate refund requests are basically non existent.

    I love the IM refund demands that show a time stamp of the refund demand that falls between purchase time and actual download time. Seems some of the serial refunders are dumb as a box of tacks.

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    Rob Whisonant
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    • Profile picture of the author ARVolund
      Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant View Post

      I sell in many niches and the only niche I get hit by serial refunders is the IM niche. In fact outside the IM niche chargebacks, refund demands and even legitimate refund requests are basically non existent.

      I love the IM refund demands that show a time stamp of the refund demand that falls between purchase time and actual download time. Seems some of the serial refunders are dumb as a box of tacks.

      Re's
      Rob Whisonant
      And that is exactly why the payment processors are coming down on the IM niche. It really is not all that large and a lot of times it is more trouble than it is worth.
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  • Profile picture of the author nareshsaini
    These type of people are so irritating. and Its not surprise to find these type of peoples we can find them easily. Thanks to the peoples who share there information here.
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  • Profile picture of the author mariebnichols
    For me, i won't really bother to ask for any refund if I'm not contented with their service. but there's no way I'm going to shut my mouth about it. I will be totally honest by telling them what i really feel about their products. A constructive criticism that will allow them to grow.
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  • Profile picture of the author affiliatemoin
    As PPC-Coach mentioned above asking for refund of $1 trial saying its not worth i don't think the person who bought the trial for his business is worth half a cent. I purchased many products and though lot scrap i always got something out of that... never ever requested for a refund. I always think its stupidity to use the 30 or 60 day guarantee period. If some chap is thinking in that way it's sure that he did not put his efforts rather than waited few days to pass only to ask his money back in the form of refunds.
    There are crazy people out there who i suppose are still asking for refunds even though being 5 to 10 yrs in the online marketing. These are the people who never made money online and are not going to make a dime in the future... i can only lol on those people...
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Believe it or not, not all of them have bad intentions in mind.

    I once received a refund request on one of my products and the buyer politely replied to my email informing me that he hadnt read the product description carefully enough. He thought my product was something else ....no biggy, I cant understand that - Im guilty of skimming over things myself.

    Upon receiving the refund, this particular customer then emailed me and asked ...

    "What should i do with the files? Should I delete them?"

    I was so pleased to see such honesty, I told him not too - and to keep them on me as thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author MaxReferrals
    For years people been talkin' bout setting up a Serial Refunder site, where
    these freeloaders can be reported.

    Someone jump on that idea...
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  • Profile picture of the author golf69
    biting your tongue is difficult sometimes..haha
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  • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
    I've actually thought of tightening up my policy just a tad, especially on my products that I KNOW produce results (as long as the work is done). I've seen a lot of people integrate policies where the buyer has to show some sort of "proof" that they at least tried putting various methods into action. It also sort of makes the buyer have some accountability, which could actually get them motivated enough to make something work for them, making it a win-win for everyone involved.

    What do you think?
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