Help! I need your (legal) advice!

13 years ago

I think you should contact an IP attorney...but my advice? Ignore the invoice - it was a mistake, nothing more, and the photographer should just move on. Just my .02, you understand - your attorney could give you a very different answer.

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Mark Andrews

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by czilbersher

I have an old, dormant autoblog with content obtained via autoblog plug-ins llike WP-Robot. One of the posts apparently was built using a licensed image. The professional photographer who took the image just sent me this message:

To Whom It May Concern:

You are listed as the registered owner of a website using my image without authorization. My image found here:

http://URL removed.

is being used on your site here:

http:// URL removed.

The cost for this use is $139.00 USD and any future use of the image must be renegotiated through me. Please see the attached invoice.

Considering you are the registered owner of this website, it is your responsibility to pay the invoiced $139.
___________________

I immediately deleted the image from my blog but he is now insisting that I pay $139 as per his attached invoice.

What is the accepted protocol to follow for such situations?

Pay him his dues.

You took his copyrighted material and used it without permission.

It's his right to charge you for using his photograph/s.

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HigherPrThanGod

13 years ago

Originally Posted by czilbersher

I have an old, dormant autoblog with content obtained via autoblog plug-ins llike WP-Robot. One of the posts apparently was built using a licensed image. The professional photographer who took the image just sent me this message:

To Whom It May Concern:

You are listed as the registered owner of a website using my image without authorization. My image found here:

http://URL removed.

is being used on your site here:

http:// URL removed.

The cost for this use is $139.00 USD and any future use of the image must be renegotiated through me. Please see the attached invoice.

Considering you are the registered owner of this website, it is your responsibility to pay the invoiced $139.
___________________

I immediately deleted the image from my blog but he is now insisting that I pay $139 as per his attached invoice.

What is the accepted protocol to follow for such situations?

Are you certain and can he prove it's his image?, otherwise it could just be a scam.

If you immediately remove the image, they lack much legal recourse. He's just trying to get all he can, if it's REALLY the owner of said image.

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Joseph Robinson

Banned 13 years ago

That's one of the difficult things about the internet. Can this guy really prove that the image belongs to them? For future reference though take this as a lesson. Be careful what you post on your website because you very well could be responsible.

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czilbersher

13 years ago

It's an old autoblog with literally thousands of posts containing scraped content. WP-Robot is one of many autoblog plug-ins that will pull content off of sites like Flickr (which is what happened here), and pop it into a blog post. The photographer who is demanding that I pay him is the owner of the image IMHO. I'm sorry his thumbnail image got scraped to my blog, but if I were to pay him $138 for his 150x150 pixel photo, the precedent that this would set would be challenging: I would probably owe tens of thousands of dollars to the owners of images scraped off Flickr via WP-Robot (and other autoblog plug-ins) that were pulled due to their keyword relevance.

When the photographer contacted me, I immediately deleted his photo and the post from the blog. I could (and probably should) delete the entire blog as well. I used TinEye and found that his image was found across no less than 7 other sites of which I very much doubt paid for their use. They probably scraped his image just as I did. Please don't get me wrong: I'm sympathetic to content owners and agree that theft is theft. Although I inadvertently "stole" his photo (of which I freely admit my guilt), I also tried to remedy the situation by immediately deleting it from my blog. I feel that his demands for restitution in light of my actions to correct my wrongdoing amount to nothing less than extortion. Two wrongs don't make a right... or do they?

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rts2271 13 years ago

Delete the image and have a attorney craft a f off and die letter.
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- Karen Connell 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by rts2271
  
  Delete the image and have a attorney craft a f off and die letter.
  
  Love the idea of this type of letter
  
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  Never Mistake Activity for Accomplishment
  
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Charles Jones 13 years ago

Best thing you did was to take the image down...this saves you from a takedown notice to your ISP.

If he is in a different state, then I can't imagine he will pursue the matter. The only real thing he could do is sue you...and collecting form out of state would be basically fruitless. He could sure you in small claims court for the $138 bucks or whatever, but REALLY? Not worth his time.

I would send him an email or better yet a certified letter explaining the mistake and that you took the image down as soon as you were notified. I am not a lawyer, but I would certainly think that would go a long way if he tries to pull some lawyer crap into it...what are they gonna sue you for then??? Plus you remedied the situation.

That is what I would do....and then he can go pound sand.
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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by czilbersher

if I were to pay him $138 for his 150x150 pixel photo, the precedent that this would set would be challenging: I would probably owe tens of thousands of dollars to the owners of images scraped off Flickr via WP-Robot (and other autoblog plug-ins) that were pulled due to their keyword relevance.

Does it ever strike you that this business model, based - as it apparently is - on "scraping" other people's copyright content, might perhaps be a less than optimal one?

Just wondering ...

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HigherPrThanGod

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe128139

That's one of the difficult things about the internet. Can this guy really prove that the image belongs to them? For future reference though take this as a lesson. Be careful what you post on your website because you very well could be responsible.

I would ask the guy for his website, name and maybe a listing of his (with proof) on those stock image sites. Otherwise, he's just making it up. There has to be some way to verify it's his online, or else where did it come from? How can a court determine he made it? If he can't prove it then the OP should just ignore it and go eat dinner.

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Kay King 13 years ago

The links in the first post say "url removed" - but they are clickable.

Is the first link to the site of the person who contacted you? Is that the image you used? If so, I don't think ownership's in question.

Don't take legal advice from non-lawyers on a forum. That's dangerous.

kay
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TheKeys

13 years ago

I honestly think it's a scam. Put it back up and ask for proof. In this day and age it's going to be hard to prove anything to be honest. I think he just want's to nuke you of your money.

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derekwong28

13 years ago

It is a very difficult situation. Legally and morally, you are supposed to pay compensation but what if the demand was for thousands of dollars? It boils down to whether you think he is likely to sue you for that.

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Gordon Taylor

13 years ago

Originally Posted by czilbersher

I have an old, dormant autoblog with content obtained via autoblog plug-ins llike WP-Robot. One of the posts apparently was built using a licensed image. The professional photographer who took the image just sent me this message:

To Whom It May Concern:

You are listed as the registered owner of a website using my image without authorization. My image found here:

http://URL removed.

is being used on your site here:

http:// URL removed.

The cost for this use is $139.00 USD and any future use of the image must be renegotiated through me. Please see the attached invoice.

Considering you are the registered owner of this website, it is your responsibility to pay the invoiced $139.
___________________

I immediately deleted the image from my blog but he is now insisting that I pay $139 as per his attached invoice.

What is the accepted protocol to follow for such situations?

Don't take any legal advice from this forum, I know people want to be helpful.

GET A LAWYER!

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jacktackett

13 years ago

As Gordan and others suggested you need to speak to a lawyer - especially if the person follows up the invoice with legal papers.

If he's a professional then he'll have the proof needed to show ownership of his images. There are several techniques to do this ranging from sophisticated water marks to just the old fashion registering a copyright.

The practical matter is lawsuits are expensive and time consuming - and even if someone wins a suit - that doesn't guarantee payment.

Finally - don't want to beat a dead horse, but asking a bunch of non lawyers about a legal matter is not a good idea - any more than admitting in a public forum that's archived on the internet that you admit guilt. A lawyer suing would absolutely love finding this thread during discovery.....

good luck,
--Jack

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Rich Struck

13 years ago

Be glad he only wants $139. Pay it and be done with it. There is a lot of totally wrong advice in this thread - never, ever ask for legal advice on a forum.

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timpears

13 years ago

I would be tempted to write the guy back and say, prove you own this image. I have no idea how one would do that.

Bottom line, I would do as you have and let the guy spend money to hire a lawyer if he really does have legal ownership. No one in their right mind would haul your butt to court to collect $138. They could sue for damages and legal fees, but I would take the chance.

You do own him, if he does in fact own it. But that is a flip of a coin in my mind. And that is for a court to determine I would say.

Please be advised, this is not legal advice, only my personal opinion about what I would do. I am not a lawyer.

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Tim Pears

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Rich Struck

13 years ago

Originally Posted by timpears

I would be tempted to write the guy back and say, prove you own this image. I have no idea how one would do that.

Bottom line, I would do as you have and let the guy spend money to hire a lawyer if he really does have legal ownership. No one in their right mind would haul your butt to court to collect $138. They could sue for damages and legal fees, but I would take the chance.

You do own him, if he does in fact own it. But that is a flip of a coin in my mind. And that is for a court to determine I would say.

Please be advised, this is not legal advice, only my personal opinion about what I would do. I am not a lawyer.

Sorry but this is terrible advice.

Suppose the guy decides to sue him from halfway across the country? Have you researched what the maximum penalty per infringing image is? How does anywhere between $200 and $150,000 sound?

(2) In a case where the copyright owner sustains the burden of proving, and the court finds, that infringement was committed willfully, the court in its discretion may increase the award of statutory damages to a sum of not more than $150,000. In a case where the infringer sustains the burden of proving, and the court finds, that such infringer was not aware and had no reason to believe that his or her acts constituted an infringement of copyright, the court in its discretion may reduce the award of statutory damages to a sum of not less than $200.

There is a huge potential downside here. Just pay the guy and move on.

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onegoodman

13 years ago

I would say check with attorney, but first investigate both the photo and the guy and I mean by that first if this photo is actually created by him (which we will just make it as an assumption). Did he post this photo on other website? like facebook ? google images, ... etc and if he did (check their term of use regarding the images) simply because everybody uploading stuff to these websites and he may did. Once you uploaded to the big fish websites usually notify you that you rights on the photo getting limited on any photo or image you submit to them(to protect them legally).

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WillR

13 years ago

The part that had me worried was when I saw the thread title...

Help! I need your (legal) advice!

...on a public forum. Seriously, we are not the people to be asking.

Law is NOT something to play around with and none of us will be affected by any advice we give so you should go and seek the advice of a professional. People study for years to become a legal professional - there is a very good reason for that.

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derekwong28

13 years ago

$139 = Get a Lawyer?

How much do you think lawyer will cost?

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Mark Andrews

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Pete Walker

Pay him his dues.

You took his copyrighted material and used it without permission.

It's his right to charge you for using his photograph/s.

Originally Posted by czilbersher

It's an old autoblog with literally thousands of posts containing scraped content. WP-Robot is one of many autoblog plug-ins that will pull content off of sites like Flickr (which is what happened here), and pop it into a blog post. The photographer who is demanding that I pay him is the owner of the image IMHO. I'm sorry his thumbnail image got scraped to my blog, but if I were to pay him $138 for his 150x150 pixel photo, the precedent that this would set would be challenging: I would probably owe tens of thousands of dollars to the owners of images scraped off Flickr via WP-Robot (and other autoblog plug-ins) that were pulled due to their keyword relevance.

When the photographer contacted me, I immediately deleted his photo and the post from the blog. I could (and probably should) delete the entire blog as well. I used TinEye and found that his image was found across no less than 7 other sites of which I very much doubt paid for their use. They probably scraped his image just as I did. Please don't get me wrong: I'm sympathetic to content owners and agree that theft is theft. Although I inadvertently "stole" his photo (of which I freely admit my guilt), I also tried to remedy the situation by immediately deleting it from my blog. I feel that his demands for restitution in light of my actions to correct my wrongdoing amount to nothing less than extortion. Two wrongs don't make a right... or do they?

You admit taking and using his photograph without his permission.

You didn't immediately remove the offending image, you only did so upon notification from the owner of the copyrighted material. Plus you admit your guilt quite freely.

Is it extortion on his part? No, not if he's the legal owner of the image. How can it possibly be so?

Fair enough if he's not the image owner but if he is, it's definitely not extortion.

You used his image, you admit it, $139 is reasonable, pay him what you owe him for using his copyrighted material without permission.

If you ever do this to GettyImages you'll certainly know about it.

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R Hagel 13 years ago

Originally Posted by jacktackett

A lawyer suing would absolutely love finding this thread during discovery.....

Indeed. And it wouldn't take much time at all to discover it:

Originally Posted by Kay King

The links in the first post say "url removed" - but they are clickable.

As for everything else in this thread...

Some of it is just plain BAD advice. Yikes.

Becky
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Steven Miranda

13 years ago

This is not legal advice but as a professional photographer I can tell you I would have done the same thing. If you know it is his image that you used without his permission then you should just pay him the amount requested or get a lawyer but legal fees will be much more than $139. Email him back with your apologies and the money. If you want to continue to use HIS image that he spent time, skill and money on then pay up. If not he could peruse you legally and it will not be worth it. If it really is his image he could provide proof with a RAW image file or original negative.

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Istvan Horvath

13 years ago

I am sure all those "smart" advisers here telling the OP to write a "f***k off" letter to the photographer, who seemingly does have the copyright of the image... would cry HELP! THIEF" and all the similar things if their own copyrighted content (article, blog post, digital product etc.) was used by other 'bad guys'.

I really hope one day somebody will steal all your stuff - just that you guys get the feeling

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SunilTanna

13 years ago

IANAL, don't listen to any forum lawyers. On the other hand, nobody's going to speak to a lawyer about a dispute that is over $139, unless the lawyer is your brother in law or something.

Three things I'd say though:

1. Assuming he does own the copyright (which is a big assumption), he can't just make up the amount that you owes. You have to either agree to the amount, or he has to sue you, and get the court to determine the amount (it could be less, but it could be more) if he wins.

2. My understanding is that in the US, copyright is federal jurisdiction. So if he sues in state court, I don't know believe that he can sue under copyright law and get copyright damages (note: but if you agree you owe him, and simply refuse to pay, that no longer makes it a copyright case, but a contract case, which is state jurisidiction --- another reason to be careful what you say in email and forums). Of course if he sues you in state court and you don't fight him, he might win on default even if his interpretation of the law is wrong, so if he were to do that you might need to file a motion to dismiss for lack of jurisdiction, or whatever it's technically called

3. I agree with those, who are criticising scraping content off the internet without permission. This applies double if you're scraping entire articles or pictures.

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Help! I need your (legal) advice!

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