Serial refunder ALERT... Do I refund him or don't I?

109 replies
I recently read a thread by Steve Wagenheim which showed his annoyance at those who buy your report and then request a refund within MINUTES.

Now I couldn't relate to him... till now.

I have just launched a new WSO and everyone BUT this one guy (less than 50 posts on here) is happy with the report.

He purchased it and then within 2 minutes, has PMed me requesting a refund. Without saying why or anything! Just "refund".

What would you do?

Bite the bullet and refund him?
PM him back and ask why (and how) it's taken him 2 minutes to read and take in 17 pages of information?
Other?

It's no harm to me - it's merely $7 bucks.. but I can't stand the thought of members going around this forum and getting information for free. Information that has taken us marketers months putting together?

Do we name and shame?

?!

#alert #refund #refunder #serial
  • Profile picture of the author GameVoid
    You offered a refund you have to honor the refund. It's just business. As long as he doesn't take that report and start selling it as his own or sending it out to a bunch of people for free you haven't lost anything.

    These people never amount to anything, so it's not like he's going to take your information and launch a competing business.
    Signature
    Professional Writing Services Content creation, article rewriting, sales pages, marketing materials and much more.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4260811].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
    Yes, I have had quite a few of these in the past - however you would LOVE to say "NO!" just view it as it was not a real sale anyway.

    Just refund and be rest assured that the chance of them succeeding with an online business is slim!

    Chris
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4260851].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dan Ambrose
    I will refund him. I just wanted to vent my anger.

    Having said that, I clearly write in my guarantee:

    "As always - your purchase is 100% secure with my
    60 Day Money Back Guarantee. Just apply the
    methods shown and show me your results or lack
    thereof, and you'll receive an immediate refund
    .
    All you have to do is shoot me an email. "

    I am waiting on a PM back, as I am sure if he is legitimate, then he can provide a reason why it wasn't for him.

    I think we should have some sort of system on here where we can name and shame (or even block) refunders if they cannot provide a valid reason why they request a refund.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4260855].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MobApps
      Originally Posted by D Ambrose View Post

      I will refund him. I just wanted to vent my anger.

      Having said that, I clearly write in my guarantee:

      "As always - your purchase is 100% secure with my
      60 Day Money Back Guarantee. Just apply the
      methods shown and show me your results or lack
      thereof, and you'll receive an immediate refund
      .
      All you have to do is shoot me an email. "

      I am waiting on a PM back, as I am sure if he is legitimate, then he can provide a reason why it wasn't for him.

      I think we should have some sort of system on here where we can name and shame (or even block) refunders if they cannot provide a valid reason why they request a refund.

      Hello D & Fellow Warriors.

      As much as I understand the frustration of this type of situation & issue I would personally just give a refund without hesitation and here is why.

      Our products are not for everyone.

      Walmart became the super giant that it is because if you didn't like something you purchased for any reason you could get a refund. It's a numbers game.
      We give them a good sales page and testimonials and finish with our money back guarantee to persuade them to give it a try. We make it sound great and they want one. They buy and quickly see this is not what they had perceived and a ton of other reasons.

      Some buy many different products because they don't want to miss the next great thing that could change their life and they run their funds low doing it. They buy so many products they often times don't use any of them. So some like that do a quick scan of what they purchased to see if it was worth (to them) the last few dollars they had.

      Of course their are always the unethical ones who keep the product and ask for a refund. It just comes with business, because if you didn't offer an easy refund policy your sales would be less and you wouldn't make as much money. So all in all it is well worth a few people who might not even give it a look or worse stole the product through an unethical refund. You still make mores sales than you would have if you don't offer an easy refund policy.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465134].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author barbarajean
        I know the frustration of refunds - I sell products as well as buy them. I am not advocating refunding, serial or otherwise, but I have a point of view to add here.

        I did return one WSO right away (I read fast) because the sales letter only hinted at what was contained in the WSO (a pet peeve of mine), and it turned out the content was not anything I would even remotely be interested in doing. The sales letter implication however, was that it was something I would be interested in. However I honestly deleted it from my computer. (I did not read your sales letter so my comment has nothing to do w/your situation - it's just a general comment on this subject.)

        Now I have a rule that no matter how good the sales letter makes the WSO sound - if it doesn't give me a clear idea about what I am actually buying, I just don't buy it (lesson learned).

        I have a packed folder on my hard drive of WSO's I purchased and didn't use but did not refund, I considered those bad decisions on my part. I have maybe returned 2 items for about 50 or so bought.

        My point is - don't assume a quick refund is a serial refunder, that may not always be the case. If you ban everyone who requests a refund once you may be cutting off some future sales from some good customers. In my case I have continued to buy lots of stuff w/out refunding.

        Barb
        Signature
        Combine a powerful herb with your morning coffee?
        A delicious way to get healthy
        and make money - what could be better than that?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465259].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
    If you have a refund policy you have to keep your promise. I don't like refunders either but it's just part of the business, if you suspect he is a serial refunder remove him from your list and move on.

    Just because someone asks a refund doesn't make them a bad customer, the product might not be right for them or they have buyers remorse. Some of my customers who asked for a refund on their first purchase went on to become fairly loyal customers. Sometimes you get a lot more by giving a little, and sometimes they really are just out to steal from you.

    Add him to your blacklist and move on.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4260864].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
    Yep, just as you're doing, refund him. Don't give him a second thought. It will just waste unneeded time and brain cells. Instead, focus on your REAL customers.

    Becky

    p.s. No naming and shaming, especially on this forum (as it goes against the forum rules).

    p.p.s. Even though it's likely that the person could be a serial refunder, you don't know for sure. There are other explanations for what happened. Don't take it personal -- just move on.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4260881].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Robert Boduch
      Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

      Yep, just as you're doing, refund him. Don't give him a second thought. It will just waste unneeded time and brain cells. Instead, focus on your REAL customers.

      Becky

      p.s. No naming and shaming, especially on this forum (as it goes against the forum rules).

      p.p.s. Even though it's likely that the person could be a serial refunder, you don't know for sure. There are other explanations for what happened. Don't take it personal -- just move on.

      Now that's SUPERB advice from Becky!

      These issues are just part of doing business. The less energy spent worrying about someone who buys and then refunds, the more time you'll have for positive and productive thinking.

      Don't let it get you down one bit. That way you WIN every time.

      Robert
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261458].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jamie Charles
    The less time you spend on situations like this , the better for your bottom line.

    Just accept that there are people who will purchase and request a refund right away.

    Just refund and don't think about it again, still early in the day, plenty of time to forget it. Good Luck!
    Signature
    Action! - Action! - Action!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4260884].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dan Ambrose
    Thanks for the input friends... It's good to know that these punks are in the minority on this forum.

    There's a reason why serial refunders never seem to be successful.

    Unfortunately I have not received a PM back. Funny how he's super super quick at requesting a refund, but when asked why.. he goes quiet.

    Sure he may have a very legitimate reason, but until I hear it, I have blacklisted him so I don't have to risk helping him for free again.

    I have refunded the buyer. But I won't be dealing with him again.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4260913].message }}
  • It's unfortunate when things like this happen, but... They will happen. It's best to just refund the payment, and move on. Do not let it take a toll on you personally or even begin to change your mood. These people who do this won't have any true success anyways, so you can have the last laugh. I know a lot of gigs on Fiverr offer any WSO for $5, and it's horrible, because those are the exact people we are referencing here.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4260965].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    At the end of the day, you are probably going to have to give the refund. First though, shoot that PM asking why and if there is anyting you can do to help them out. I wouldn't expect an answer. After that, you are unfortunately obligated to give them the refund. Preserve your reputation rather than telling this punk whats what.

    It would be great if people like this could be put on some kind of list though, that way they can be identified, denied improper refunds, and eventually banned.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4260990].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dan Ambrose
    I have refunded the buyer - and have sent him a PM asking what his reasons were (wouldn't normally do this, but felt obliged to ask since he is the ONLY refund request I have received and it came 2 minutes after the Payment notification). I have blacklisted him and blocked any further sales to/from him until I hear his response.

    That is the fairest way I can do things.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261005].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Scott Kennedy
      Originally Posted by D Ambrose View Post

      I have refunded the buyer - and have sent him a PM asking what his reasons were (wouldn't normally do this, but felt obliged to ask since he is the ONLY refund request I have received and it came 2 minutes after the Payment notification). I have blacklisted him and blocked any further sales to/from him until I hear his response.

      That is the fairest way I can do things.
      This is what you should do each and every time. For people that buy your product and demand a refund merely minutes afterwards, respect their request and give them the money back but ban their email address/I.P from being able to purchase your goods in the future.

      I hear DL Guard is a great thing to have.


      Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

      Sometimes if you refuse the refund they come on to your thread and flame you as a means of leveraging their refund.

      It disgusts me to think folks can get away with ripping off vendors.

      In the US only 50% of our citizens pay taxes. Guess which group serial refunders are in.
      I was reading your WSO thread only last night. I've no idea why you don't report the posts from people asking for refunds after 5, 6, 7 months of backlinks were built for them. Or people who leave negative reviews when they haven't even purchased the service being offered.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261299].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
      Refunds are unfortunately just part of doing business, even if you don't have a refund policy it's good to do a refund any way then if there isn't a valid reason then add them to a blacklist.

      Valid reasons generally don't include ..

      I bought this 3 months ago but haven't had time to look at it yet...

      Great product ... but I am going on vacation so don't have time to implement it.

      (i"ve had both)

      A general Comment about refunds and the refund culture some people seem to have...

      Buyers really need to start to take some responsibility for their actions , if you read a sales letter and the product delivers on what it promises then think twice about asking for a refund just because you decide to do something else or decide it's too much work.

      if you are not sure if a product is for you then ask, Thats why many of us pay for help desks. We would rather steer a potential away from a product thats not a good fit than have an unhappy customer.


      IM is a two way street , most product creators really try to deliver value and good content. Why then treat them the same as scammers who you should legitimately ask for a refund ?

      Would you walk into a restaurant eat all your meal then refuse to pay even if the meal was perfect just because you decided that you should have had fish rather than beef?

      In my experience there are actually very few people here that ask for refunds, even so I am sure the pope would however have a 1% - 2% refund rate if he wrote a prayer book and sold it as a WSO.

      It's interesting if you go into WSO Pro and look at the refund rates for wso's that sold over 100 copies, a lot of them, probably the majority, have a refund rate of under 2%. That tells you a lot about the quality you get here.

      While you are in there look at the ones that have high refund rates and then look at the sales pages... Most of the time the sales pages are full of hype that the product can't deliver on. (lesson there for product creators!)

      If you buy a product thats obviously not what the sales letter promises then ask for a refund.

      It's the product is crap then ask for a refund.

      If the product delivers but you decide it's not for you...then think twice about asking for a refund Take responsibility for your choices.

      I bought a WSO a few weeks ago and i suspected as i was buying it I knew what it was about.. I was right I'd been using the method for 3 years.. Did i ask for a refund? Of course not. It was my decision to spend $7 on something I suspected I knew.


      Oh and while I am at it... the worst thing than asking for a refund with no genuine reason.. is doing a paypal dispute without even trying to contact the vendor.... and worse than that is reversing the payment 2 minutes after you get the product.

      Hope i haven't upset anyone with this post...
      Signature


      If you are serious about online marketing come and Join our free community The Foundation
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261356].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
    Same exact thing happened to me about a week back. And, it wasn't just a refund, but a chargeback within minutes of the purchase as well. To top it all off, it was for $5.

    There is some good feedback in this thread regarding what to do as well.

    Refunders don't irk me when they at least tried to put the product to use. It's the one's who pull the chargeback stuff when they know they can just hit you up and ask for a refund. Much, much easier and less hassle for everyone involved.
    Signature
    Want to speed up your writing and save time?
    This book will show you how:
    --> Write Fast: 21 Powerful Ways to Cut Your Writing Time in Half! <--
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261199].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ReikiGirl
      Originally Posted by bhuff85 View Post

      Same exact thing happened to me about a week back. And, it wasn't just a refund, but a chargeback within minutes of the purchase as well. To top it all off, it was for $5.

      There is some good feedback in this thread regarding what to do as well.

      Refunders don't irk me when they at least tried to put the product to use. It's the one's who pull the chargeback stuff when they know they can just hit you up and ask for a refund. Much, much easier and less hassle for everyone involved.

      And I assume like me, you're charged a fee for each chargeback or no? The fee to me is 35.00 - so yah, over 5 bucks, that would really piss me off. You should put something on your site holding those types of people liable for the fee if they don't initiate any contact with you first to resolve any issue they have.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261411].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Just refund, blacklist and move on. Nothing more you can do, this is just the way it goes selling digital products.

    I hope everyone blacklist these guys, and I have HIGH HOPES that WSO Pro creates a universal Blacklist for everyone to use before selling a WSO - now that can be a serious kick in the ass to refunders.

    Anyone with me to push Mike to adopt this with WSO Pro?
    Signature
    People make good money selling to the rich. But the rich got rich selling to the masses.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261265].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Read Rule #1 of the forum. You're not allowed to name and shame. Just give him his $7 and forget about it. Life's too short.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261275].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    Sometimes if you refuse the refund they come on to your thread and flame you as a means of leveraging their refund.

    It disgusts me to think folks can get away with ripping off vendors.

    In the US only 50% of our citizens pay taxes. Guess which group serial refunders are in.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261295].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Dan Ambrose
      Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

      Sometimes if you refuse the refund they come on to your thread and flame you as a means of leveraging their refund.

      It disgusts me to think folks can get away with ripping off vendors.

      In the US only 50% of our citizens pay taxes. Guess which group serial refunders are in.
      That's the thing... they can pretty much "bend you over a barrel" if they so desire - no seller wants bad feedback on their threads - even if they are by those who take advantage of generous guarantees. So you end up refunding them and that's the end of it.

      I guess it comes down to simply refunding and moving on...

      I guess I can smile at the fact that in 14 days this person will not receive a free bonus from me (something all my customers will get) and I don't have to deal with this person again.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261323].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author thatgirlJ
        I tend to refund and block the buyer's access to the download (this just prevents them from grabbing my updated files) and from buying my future products (unless they have a legitimate reason for refunding).

        Take a deep breath, refund, and move on
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261339].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Dan Ambrose
          Originally Posted by Jenn Dize View Post

          I tend to refund and block the buyer's access to the download (this just prevents them from grabbing my updated files) and from buying my future products (unless they have a legitimate reason for refunding).

          Take a deep breath, refund, and move on
          Hey Jenn,

          Do you block via WarriorPro? Im just figuring it all out and wondered what the difference was between blacklisting the buyer and blocking access?

          Thanks

          Daniel.

          PS. One thing we all have in common is that it happens to the best of us, we are a family here and the good thing is we look out for each other
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261351].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
          Originally Posted by Jenn Dize View Post

          I tend to refund and block the buyer's access to the download (this just prevents them from grabbing my updated files) and from buying my future products (unless they have a legitimate reason for refunding).

          Take a deep breath, refund, and move on
          Right there with you Jenn - For anyone who tries the pump and dump on any of my products, it will definitely be their last!
          Signature
          Want to speed up your writing and save time?
          This book will show you how:
          --> Write Fast: 21 Powerful Ways to Cut Your Writing Time in Half! <--
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261369].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
          Originally Posted by Jenn Dize View Post

          I tend to refund and block the buyer's access to the download (this just prevents them from grabbing my updated files) and from buying my future products (unless they have a legitimate reason for refunding).

          Take a deep breath, refund, and move on
          I do the same thing. But I use WP Memberchamp which automatically removes access to your download page when you refund in Paypal. I have my FAQ and updates bonuses etc on that page that they need to have login details to get in.

          You could also offer more of a drip style product to reduce refunders as well. Like they get 95% of the product now and in 30 days they get something they will need at that time and then 60 days out they will get the last part they will want at that time to be successful.

          But then again you will be wasting alot of time and energy on this. Just build your product and business, then hire a VA and let them handle to serial refunders.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4262189].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
        Originally Posted by Scott Kennedy View Post

        I was reading your WSO thread only last night. I've no idea why you don't report the posts from people asking for refunds after 5, 6, 7 months of backlinks were built for them. Or people who leave negative reviews when they haven't even purchased the service being offered.
        Oh I do. I keep the mods hopping with reports and infractions. So a big thanks to the mods for sure!

        Originally Posted by D Ambrose View Post

        That's the thing... they can pretty much "bend you over a barrel" if they so desire - no seller wants bad feedback on their threads - even if they are by those who take advantage of generous guarantees. So you end up refunding them and that's the end of it.

        I guess it comes down to simply refunding and moving on...

        I guess I can smile at the fact that in 14 days this person will not receive a free bonus from me (something all my customers will get) and I don't have to deal with this person again.
        I just let them flame on and then I report them. I'll not be ripped off and then have a forum terrorist rip off what I have worked very hard to create. But then again I sell a service not a product.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261375].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
      Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post


      In the US only 50% of our citizens pay taxes.

      Are the other 50% children ;-)

      Or ones getting handouts?

      In the UK it feels like only 7 or 8 people pay taxes and one of them is me :-(

      Ah well...onwards and upwards...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4262481].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
        Originally Posted by Steadyon View Post

        Are the other 50% children ;-)

        Or ones getting handouts?

        In the UK it feels like only 7 or 8 people pay taxes and one of them is me :-(

        Ah well...onwards and upwards...
        Nope...50% of adults pay no taxes here.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4262553].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bladecantsleep
    If you offered the refund you have to refund it as much as it sucks.
    Signature

    Affiliate links are not allowed in signature files.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261354].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    I'd say it again: WSO Pro has a vast community of supporters in here. Why not create something like a major BLACKLIST with all the 3 x refunders or 5 x refunders?

    If everyone is blacklisting folks left and right WHY NOT join them all in 1 list?
    Signature
    People make good money selling to the rich. But the rich got rich selling to the masses.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261384].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
      Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

      I'd say it again: WSO Pro has a vast community of supporters in here. Why not create something like a major BLACKLIST with all the 3 x refunders or 5 x refunders?

      If everyone is blacklisting folks left and right WHY NOT join them all in 1 list?

      I actually submitted Mike Lantz a help desk question about this, i asked if we could have a master blacklist to apply for people who do multiple refund requests..

      Didn't see any reply
      Signature


      If you are serious about online marketing come and Join our free community The Foundation
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261407].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
      Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

      I'd say it again: WSO Pro has a vast community of supporters in here. Why not create something like a major BLACKLIST with all the 3 x refunders or 5 x refunders?

      If everyone is blacklisting folks left and right WHY NOT join them all in 1 list?
      That would violate most vendors privacy policies for starters. But I get what you're saying. If you write a bad check to someone here in the States you get put into a database that is checked by almost every vendor who accepts checks through Check Systems.

      Or if your bank account is shut down with a negative balance most other banks will not take you on.

      So how are serial refunders different from scammers who pass bad checks? So good point to make for sure Fernando.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261408].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    If you use DLGuard for payment and delivery it's very simple to prevent anyone from becoming a serial refunder. DLGuard has a ban list. Someone refunds once, put them in the ban list and they can never purchase another product from you again.

    I do that and never have a serial refunder, and quite a few of the jerks have attempted to buy more of my websites and were prevented from doing so.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261395].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      If you use DLGuard for payment and delivery it's very simple to prevent anyone from becoming a serial refunder. DLGuard has a ban list. Someone refunds once, put them in the ban list and they can never purchase another product from you again.

      I do that and never have a serial refunder, and quite a few of the jerks have attempted to buy more of my websites and were prevented from doing so.
      I'm wondering if I can use DLGuard to sell a service? Off to check. Thanks for the headsup!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261418].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
        Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

        I'm wondering if I can use DLGuard to sell a service? Off to check. Thanks for the headsup!
        Matt, Sure you can.
        It also has a Membership area.

        Have a Great Day!
        Michael
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261847].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

        I'm wondering if I can use DLGuard to sell a service? Off to check. Thanks for the headsup!
        I do. I build mobile websites and in the download box of DLGuard, I put a questionnaire and my contact info and instructions. That's normally where the product that they download would go, but for a service, just use a word file for instructions.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261887].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          I do. I build mobile websites and in the download box of DLGuard, I put a questionnaire and my contact info and instructions. That's normally where the product that they download would go, but for a service, just use a word file for instructions.
          Great. Thanks for the headsup on them. Serial refunders are a huge threat to forum vendors. If you get one perp making a stink b/c you rejected their refund request it can quickly become a mob mentality towards a direction unfavorable to your cause.

          If only positive posts would multiply in the same fashion.

          Edit: I might add that the only thing keeping that from becoming an epidemic here at WF are the mods. They do a damn fine job of keeping the weeds off the lawn so to speak. So mega kudos to them!
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261982].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author wiscrown
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      If you use DLGuard for payment and delivery it's very simple to prevent anyone from becoming a serial refunder. DLGuard has a ban list. Someone refunds once, put them in the ban list and they can never purchase another product from you again.

      I do that and never have a serial refunder, and quite a few of the jerks have attempted to buy more of my websites and were prevented from doing so.
      Ahh thanks Suzanne! Just what I needed since I too use DLG. Without going into detail I suspect they were a price bump refunder or worse. I banned their email and IP address!


      wiscrown
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5462268].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jimcal
    Refund and move on. He could file a complaint with paypal and you don't want that to happen.
    Thanks,
    Jim
    Signature

    Index Annuity Guide
    www.indexannuityguide.net

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261609].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Having said that, I clearly write in my guarantee:
      Yes, you do ....BUT....that's the small print that is BELOW the large print that says

      Your No Risk, No Brainer,
      No Question, No Quibble,
      No BS, No Smallprint,
      100% Money Back Guarantee
      You can't have it both ways. If your refund policy is front and center as an incentive to buy - you will have people who abuse it. You refund and let it go.

      kay
      Signature
      Every child needs a pet because every family needs an optimist

      Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261675].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
    Well, speak of the devil. Just had someone pull this on me right now. I think some of it has to be premeditated to a certain extent, almost as if they go into planning on buying and immediately file the request. Nonetheless, they have been blacklisted from the future and will get their refund.

    The truth is these are the same folks who cry wolf, always complaining about never being able to make a dime online. Those people are in for a reality check when they learn this is a BUSINESS and that at some point, you will have to make an investment somewhere.
    Signature
    Want to speed up your writing and save time?
    This book will show you how:
    --> Write Fast: 21 Powerful Ways to Cut Your Writing Time in Half! <--
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4261923].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    Your refund policy clearly states that they have to try to put it to work and you will refund if they can't. Or something along those lines. This person obviously didn't qualify for the refund as there was no way to work in in two minutes. You shouldn't have to refund him until he provides the information on why he couldn't make it work.

    You are not going to win this, so it is better to just refund and move on. But I understand why you come here and vent. It just goes with the territory.
    Signature

    Tim Pears

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4262043].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Debra Barrow
    Yes, it's the cost of doing business. I would say to flip it and recognize all the people who did not ask for a refund. Those are the people who bought your report with good intentions.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4262195].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author shabit87
    Originally Posted by D Ambrose View Post


    What would you do?

    Bite the bullet and refund him?
    PM him back and ask why (and how) it's taken him 2 minutes to read and take in 17 pages of information?
    Other?

    It's no harm to me - it's merely $7 bucks.. but I can't stand the thought of members going around this forum and getting information for free. Information that has taken us marketers months putting together?

    Do we name and shame?

    ?!

    Just refund him, he's not worth the headache. If you're using WSO Pro, blacklist him.

    Name and shame...no. Keep your cool and remain "classy." It would be cool if someone requested a refund...on their own, by filing a claim or something and the computer would automatically deny it if done within 5 minutes of purchase.

    What do you think...good idea??
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4262215].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    I'd just refund him. I've seen people go bonkers over a few bucks and troll others all over the internet.

    Not worth the aggravation.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4262434].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Originally Posted by D Ambrose View Post

    I recently read a thread by Steve Wagenheim which showed his annoyance at those who buy your report and then request a refund within MINUTES.

    Now I couldn't relate to him... till now.

    I have just launched a new WSO and everyone BUT this one guy (less than 50 posts on here) is happy with the report.

    He purchased it and then within 2 minutes, has PMed me requesting a refund. Without saying why or anything! Just "refund".

    What would you do?

    Bite the bullet and refund him?
    PM him back and ask why (and how) it's taken him 2 minutes to read and take in 17 pages of information?
    Other?

    It's no harm to me - it's merely $7 bucks.. but I can't stand the thought of members going around this forum and getting information for free. Information that has taken us marketers months putting together?

    Do we name and shame?

    ?!

    I just wanted to point out you cannot "name and shame" people in this forum because it's against the rules.

    Secondly, I would just give the person the refund. No sense in going through chargebacks or a Paypal dispute if they paid via PayPal.

    The person probably downloaded it so they could upload it to one of the many hundreds of torrent or WSO product download sites that are out there.

    RoD
    Signature
    "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
    - Jim Rohn
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4262496].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author dtaylor
      I have purchased a lot of WSO's and generally do not refund at all, even if it is very poor quality or information that is generally known.

      I have refunded for these reasons:

      1. I already bought it. (I know, you should be so lucky)
      2. I take a quick look and it doesn't come anywhere near what I was looking for guidance on. Even then, I usually keep it unless it is over $17.00 or I find one that hopefully gives me what I need.

      I would hate to get blacklisted for asking for a refund when it is clearly stated in your salesletter that you offer a money-back guarantee. Do you or don't you? Face it, the guarantee on a sales letter gives you a lot more sales than not having one.

      If you don't want to offer a guarantee, say so, but be prepared to sacrifice sales. It seems to me that you are better off giving the refund and moving on.

      I get requests for refunds all the time. When I owned an offline company I got requests for refunds all the time. (For a LOT more $$$ than a typical WSO).

      It is just business.

      For some of you that provided services as part of the WSO and then had to give a refund I have no answer.

      DTaylor
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4262615].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dave3110
    Refund. It isn't worth a "didn't give me my refund" post on the thread
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4262539].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ysckyler
    I am a customer, and i perhaps will shed some light into why people refund.

    I am a customer for a few WSO in warrior forum. Most of the product are great here. I am no product creater, i just buy and used whatever I think will help me grow in my IM business.

    So far, in Warriour Forum, i have not put in any request for refund yet because they do deliver on their promise and customer support are great by the way.

    But for clickbank, hmmmm sad to say, i have refund more than i like.

    I just had to shed a light a consumer point of view as of this point, as to why people refund.

    Ppl refund base on 3 reason *in my own opinion* :

    - No customer support. My expectationg is 2-4 working days for a response. Even you cant solve it, just say that your working on it and assure me that you are on it, and i am cool with that.

    - Does not meet expectation, meaning maybe i read your sales letter wrongly, i thought it going to be this process, but it turns out it a totally different thing, so i refund because that not what i wanted. Maybe the person who refund in 2 min sees that this is not what he wanted to learn. so that why he refund

    - The product totally sucks big time, or lack in quality. This is subjective, so depends on the user.

    Another reason : Could be the guy is a serial refunder. That happens in every industry cept maybe the funeral industry.

    I come from a weak currency againts us dollars, so every dollar i spend is very precious. what cost you guys $17 is equal to $50 in my currency. It no biggie for you, but for some of us, it a big deal. That $50 can feed me a whole week man.

    So do not judge hardly for people who request to have a refund, plus as i see it, it part of the IM business. You cannot stop it, so flow with it. You still make a profit and make your other customers happy. Focus on them instead of this 1 dude.

    As I see it, why are you angry? The stat works great in your favour, only 1 refund? You should be thankful and not everyone refund
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4262583].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Am I the only one who can glance at most reports and know within "two minutes" if it will be worth my time?

    Take the OP... in two minutes I could EASILY discover if I was confortable with his no cost bump report or if I knew it already or if its like the free google ads crap.

    Besides, vents should be blog posts.

    Garrie
    Signature
    Screw You, NameCheap!
    $1 Off NameSilo Domain Coupons:

    SAVEABUCKDOMAINS & DOLLARDOMAINSAVINGS
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4262657].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author thatgirlJ
      Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

      Nope...50% of adults pay no taxes here.
      Yeah! Some even get PAID by our government every year -- thousands of dollars! Their rebates and refunds end up being more than what they owe in taxes. Gets my blood boiling...

      Originally Posted by D Ambrose View Post

      Hey Jenn,

      Do you block via WarriorPro? Im just figuring it all out and wondered what the difference was between blacklisting the buyer and blocking access?
      Backlisting the buyer prevents them from buying for you, via WarriorPlus, in the future. Blocking access prevents them from accessing the download for that product
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4262866].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Dan Ambrose
        Originally Posted by Jenn Dize View Post

        Backlisting the buyer prevents them from buying for you, via WarriorPlus, in the future. Blocking access prevents them from accessing the download for that product
        The only problem with that is if they already save the download page. I guess I need to secure my stuff more!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4262885].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Viramara
          Originally Posted by D Ambrose View Post

          The only problem with that is if they already save the download page. I guess I need to secure my stuff more!
          you might need Virtual Vault, it can secure your download page and ebook

          the refunder might browse the ebook quickly and just conclude "it's not for me"
          Signature
          Those who have time and search for a better time will lose time (Sufi Proverb)
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4265974].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author deuces81
          There are also people who buy reports and never read them (or already familiar with the content) and for whatever reason (lazy, etc.) DON'T ASK FOR A REFUND.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5462389].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
          that's the way it goes in the digital business its our choice to do digital business so we lose a couple pdfs or zips videos here and there. Trust me do not mess with someone who wants a refund. It can get uglier then you want it to be. They love to open up a case in Paypal so if you get a letter/pm react right away before they get a chance. oh yeah be real nice and do not do any revengeful tactics that just spurs them on. if you question that this is the way to go about it you haven't had enuf refunds yet. Unannounced bonuses and over delivering is your best bet to ward off refunds. I learned by listening there are some people you DO appease like it or not.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465513].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author GypsyButterfly
          There's always that possibility, no matter what product or service we're offering, that we'll get someone who wants a refund. Thankfully, most people don't play that game. Then there are the freebie seekers who have no intention of ever spending a dime. They just send endless messages trying to get you to relent. As a writer, I don't mind offering an example, just so they have an idea of what I'm able to create. Give them enough to whet the appetite, but, not so much that they don't have a need to make the purchase.
          Signature
          Versatile writer seeking projects. Will write as myself or ghost for you. Many different themes.

          My Fiverr Gigs
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465669].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author MrMaxx357
          Refunds is the "irritating" evil of all businesses!!! The only thing to consider is if in the long run, whether or not its gonna hurt the bottom line, because negative PR always will! I can relate to getting angry, but in the long run, reputation counts more!!...and its hard to maintaiin that in business when the customer is right & when you're right, but the customer is a jerk....Being in business ain't for the soft of heart!!!
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5539034].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JohnnyC123
    Don't sell a bad product, and you won't get those that want refunds...

    Originally Posted by D Ambrose View Post

    I recently read a thread by Steve Wagenheim which showed his annoyance at those who buy your report and then request a refund within MINUTES.

    Now I couldn't relate to him... till now.

    I have just launched a new WSO and everyone BUT this one guy (less than 50 posts on here) is happy with the report.

    He purchased it and then within 2 minutes, has PMed me requesting a refund. Without saying why or anything! Just "refund".

    What would you do?

    Bite the bullet and refund him?
    PM him back and ask why (and how) it's taken him 2 minutes to read and take in 17 pages of information?
    Other?

    It's no harm to me - it's merely $7 bucks.. but I can't stand the thought of members going around this forum and getting information for free. Information that has taken us marketers months putting together?

    Do we name and shame?

    ?!

    Signature
    Backlinks, SEO Reports, and Wiki .edu .gov links services starting from $15.00
    Buy SEO Service
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4265685].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author anthony2
      Originally Posted by JohnnyC123 View Post

      Don't sell a bad product, and you won't get those that want refunds...
      You can create a great product and still have people ask for refunds.
      All the elite internet marketers on the planet get refunders.
      Signature
      "I Leveled The Playing Field And Removed Every Roadblock
      To Helping You Make Maximum Profits In Minimum Time"
      Click Here Now To Find Out How!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4265791].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
      Originally Posted by JohnnyC123 View Post

      Don't sell a bad product, and you won't get those that want refunds...
      Most information products have a refund rate of around 6% - regardless of the quality - or the seller.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4265794].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan Smith
    I hate when this happens. I absolutely hate it. Especially when it is a great prod and people have reviewed it as an excellent prod. The sad truth of the matter is they will never succeed with anything. They will probably never go further than buying products and getting refunds.

    Seems to me that is their goal. Buy then refund => buy then refund => buy then refund. Kinda pointless. If you cannot respect another person then why waste their time.

    Good luck Dan!
    Signature

    VOTE FOR MY LATEST REMIX: https://goo.gl/jwHF0j
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4265705].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author anthony2
    I agree, just refund him/her then move on.
    Don't waste your time or focus on it.

    Also you can checkout tool called Ebook Guard.
    It will protect your products from thieves.

    ebooks guard,protect ebooks,save ebook (not an aff link)
    Signature
    "I Leveled The Playing Field And Removed Every Roadblock
    To Helping You Make Maximum Profits In Minimum Time"
    Click Here Now To Find Out How!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4265772].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author johnny_h
    Originally Posted by D Ambrose View Post

    I recently read a thread by Steve Wagenheim which showed his annoyance at those who buy your report and then request a refund within MINUTES.

    Now I couldn't relate to him... till now.

    I have just launched a new WSO and everyone BUT this one guy (less than 50 posts on here) is happy with the report.

    He purchased it and then within 2 minutes, has PMed me requesting a refund. Without saying why or anything! Just "refund".

    What would you do?

    Bite the bullet and refund him?
    PM him back and ask why (and how) it's taken him 2 minutes to read and take in 17 pages of information?
    Other?

    It's no harm to me - it's merely $7 bucks.. but I can't stand the thought of members going around this forum and getting information for free. Information that has taken us marketers months putting together?

    Do we name and shame?

    ?!

    Refund the guy. This is a reputation thing - don't mess yours up over $7. Never withhold a refund from someone. In the end you're making more money than you're losing, it's just part of business.

    Also, what's probably going to happen if the guy's really persistent is you're going to get a dispute on your Paypal, or he'll just charge back on his card. Those are the worst - people who don't even ask for a refund but just file a dispute with paypal for unauthorized purchase or who just charge back without communicating. This guy's actually at least being honest about being a cheapskate. :|
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4265805].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dan Ambrose
    LAUGH OUT LOUD!

    I received 2nd refund request. This time from a man in the UAE and his email went like this:

    "Hey Daniel!

    I am not satisfied with this purchase, because I know much better ways to increase traffic to my WSO's than you are explaining in your report, off-course which I am not going to disclose in-front of you or anybody else. Anyway! I need my refund.

    Hare is my purchase details."


    This buyer actually purchased from me twice before and got refunds both times. Again, I have refunded him - but have NOW added him to my blacklist.

    I just actually LOL because his reason was that he "knew better ways"... that he was "not going to show [me] or anyone else!"

    Some people! grr
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4280743].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
      Originally Posted by D Ambrose View Post

      LAUGH OUT LOUD!

      I received 2nd refund request. This time from a man in the UAE and his email went like this:

      "Hey Daniel!

      I am not satisfied with this purchase, because I know much better ways to increase traffic to my WSO's than you are explaining in your report, off-course which I am not going to disclose in-front of you or anybody else. Anyway! I need my refund.

      Hare is my purchase details."


      This buyer actually purchased from me twice before and got refunds both times. Again, I have refunded him - but have NOW added him to my blacklist.

      I just actually LOL because his reason was that he "knew better ways"... that he was "not going to show [me] or anyone else!"

      Some people! grr
      It's crazy you say this, because I had the exact same problem yesterday.

      A guy who bought one of my WSO's refunded within minutes - he said that he already knew everything on the topic of my product. Fair enough. I went ahead and refunded him and blacklisted him on WSOPro (just for the sake that this was within MINUTES of his purchase).

      Well, guess what happens? He buys one of my other WSO's. Within a few hours, I get a similar e-mail saying that he already had a similar guide and knew everything, demanding a refund. He got through the blacklist filter on WSOPro with no issues somehow, so I question the strength of that feature and can't really rely on that to prevent these issues.

      So, I refunded the guy and made sure to tell him to refrain from buying any of my future products. I also asked him why he bought my product if he already knew everything about it? Trust me - if he "knew everything", the details of my inital WSO post would've told him flat-out that it wasn't for him. It's clear the guy just wanted to get yet another product for free. Of course, I received zero response.

      Again, refunds are refunds, but people like this are an absolute waste of time. If I happen to see the guy buy anything in the future, I'll immediately refund and disable his access, hopefully preventing him from getting the product before I shut him down. That's really the only way to combat this (unless I use something like DLGuard, which I'm strongly considering once I get more products developed and build my lists to help justify the cost).

      Regardless, being a product creator still outweighs the negative things, such as dealing with people like this. It just blows my mind with how many people get away with this stuff over and over.
      Signature
      Want to speed up your writing and save time?
      This book will show you how:
      --> Write Fast: 21 Powerful Ways to Cut Your Writing Time in Half! <--
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4281983].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by bhuff85 View Post

        I'll immediately refund and disable his access, hopefully preventing him from getting the product before I shut him down. That's really the only way to combat this (unless I use something like DLGuard, which I'm strongly considering once I get more products developed and build my lists to help justify the cost).

        Regardless, being a product creator still outweighs the negative things, such as dealing with people like this. It just blows my mind with how many people get away with this stuff over and over.
        The ban filter on DLGuard works 100%. I've had banned customers try to purchase from me again and I just get an email saying "Banned customer attempted to purchase". No sale ... and no download. I get a laugh at their expense for the day.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4282011].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          The ban filter on DLGuard works 100%. I've had banned customers try to purchase from me again and I just get an email saying "Banned customer attempted to purchase". No sale ... and no download. I get a laugh at their expense for the day.

          Thats good to know but in this case it wouldn't have worked as it doesn't work with wso pro which is a pity.
          Signature


          If you are serious about online marketing come and Join our free community The Foundation
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4283741].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          The ban filter on DLGuard works 100%. I've had banned customers try to purchase from me again and I just get an email saying "Banned customer attempted to purchase". No sale ... and no download. I get a laugh at their expense for the day.
          I've actually got to try DLGuard because it allows you to have a great guarantee while protecting yourself, thanks or the mention of this resource!
          Signature

          Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5463707].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    It's a sensitive issue, but I suppose at the end of the day, Warriors could private message each other potential serial refunders
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4283785].message }}
  • Maybe he is a report collector. And offer the report as a bonus in his product or affiliate campaign. Just don't give him a refund. The opinion of person like that won't influene our product sales.

    In my opinion, we must be honest with ourselves. As a buyer, please give a good rate to a product which proper to get it. As a seller, we responsbility to our quality of products. Please don't sell product whish has poor quality.

    Thanks,
    Mauris
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4283815].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jayzee
    Ya I think that time is over now refund is hardly an option
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4283879].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author pow999
    I dont ask for refunds AT all once i have bought it, however before buying i look for reviews from other warriors and once satisfied go ahead and buy it. I am here to learn and reach my goal of $10k/month.

    i dont want to waste my time fighting over $10, $20 and look at the larger picture, "MY GOAL"
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5462335].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Allan Leadbetter
    That sucks there is always one, just refund ignore the one negative buyer and think of the many happy customers who will take your good info and benefit from it
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5463294].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
    Originally Posted by D Ambrose View Post

    I recently read a thread by Steve Wagenheim which showed his annoyance at those who buy your report and then request a refund within MINUTES.

    Now I couldn't relate to him... till now.

    I have just launched a new WSO and everyone BUT this one guy (less than 50 posts on here) is happy with the report.

    He purchased it and then within 2 minutes, has PMed me requesting a refund. Without saying why or anything! Just "refund".

    What would you do?

    Bite the bullet and refund him?
    PM him back and ask why (and how) it's taken him 2 minutes to read and take in 17 pages of information?
    Other?

    It's no harm to me - it's merely $7 bucks.. but I can't stand the thought of members going around this forum and getting information for free. Information that has taken us marketers months putting together?

    Do we name and shame?

    ?!

    Hey man, I've had this happen to me with wso's where people would refund before they even got the dag gum download!

    It' annoying but what I've seen is that it actually saves you a lot of headache to go into this with the mindset that "there will be a % of people who do this" what you could do is refund them and ask them to give you a review of your product as a thank you for being able to get it for free.

    But what I've also done when I just don't want the stress of the serial refunders, just on you sales letter put "NO REFUNDS" and that way you don't have to deal with it, however, you will dramatically reduce sales this way, so in the end analysis, test both ways and see which one makes you more money.

    Also remember that how to make money with wso's isn't to keep "bumping" them, but rather to spend much more time getting affiliates to promote them for a cut. 100% commission is a pretty sweet incentive but even 50% isn't too shabby either and if you've got the goods, then your affiliates will do the work for you.

    However, you'll need to encourage your affiliates because only a small fraction of them will actively promote your product. lol rant over...
    Signature

    Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5463695].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Ive had my fair share of refunders...

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...onth-sick.html

    Hence why Im now developing physical info-products (Binders + CD's)

    Whilst it wont completely eliminate the problem, it should certainly slow it down considerably.
    Signature

    BS free SEO services, training and advice - SEO Point

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5463734].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AndyBlackSEO
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      Ive had my fair of refunders...

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...onth-sick.html

      Hence why Im now developing physical info-products (Binders + CD's)

      Whilst it wont completely eliminate the problem, it should certainly slow it down considerably.
      If as some state... Serial refunders have no intention of actually paying without refunding, will it make any difference going to the actual trouble of doing this? If those creeps won't actually purchase anyway? Also I'm assuming you send both an instant digital version then send out afterwards? As I would imagine many would want instant access.
      Signature
      The Worlds Most Effective Video Creation and Marketing Software... CLICK HERE ...
      ... Create and rank professional marketing videos fast and efficiently.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5463986].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
        Originally Posted by AndyBlackSEO View Post

        If as some state... Serial refunders have no intention of actually paying without refunding, will it make any difference going to the actual trouble of doing this? If those creeps won't actually purchase anyway? Also I'm assuming you send both an instant digital version then send out afterwards? As I would imagine many would want instant access.
        No I'm not sending a digital copy, only the physical copy.

        As for not making the sale otherwise, good.

        Id rather not make the sale and keep my product, than make the sale, give them their money back and allow them to keep my product also.

        That to me, is theft.

        Hey, SOPA might save me!!!
        Signature

        BS free SEO services, training and advice - SEO Point

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465913].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author AndyBlackSEO
    I say just electrocute them and cause them a slow and painful deeeeeath... But hey, that's just my opinion. I think serial refunders are extremely annoying but it really is better to let the anger go. The only person it'll effect is yourself.

    Clickbank.. Paypal.. WF etc should have something in place to detect serial refunders. As product creators... There's only so much BS we can take.

    Of course though, in some cases the refunds are legitimate.

    Andy
    Signature
    The Worlds Most Effective Video Creation and Marketing Software... CLICK HERE ...
    ... Create and rank professional marketing videos fast and efficiently.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5463958].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Michael Milken View Post

    If the WSO sellers on here are making the kind of money they claim, I don't see why they put up such a hassle to give a refund for a measly sum. It's not even worth putting up a fight over these small amounts. If a person is one of the many who offer those ultra-bold no questions asked refund policies, I don't see WHY the reason they ask for a refund matters. Just grant the refund and keep it moving.
    I agree. As long as the person being robbed/taken advantage of is making good money, it's not a big deal. They can afford it.

    Pffft.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5464484].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kezz
    I completely disagree with the assertion that anyone who asks for a refund should just be given one without question.

    It is this common approach that actually creates serial refunders.

    It has become known far and wide that WSO sellers and other digital vendors have this approach, and so as a result people have come to the conclusion that it is completely okay to request refunds without good reason.

    But it's completely not okay.

    Could you imagine a department store where people walked through the checkout, turned on the spot and then demanded a refund and kept the product?

    A seller must stick to their refund policy, so if you had said refunds were available without explanation you would certainly have to honor that.

    But you stated that your policy was that a refund would be possible if the person applied the techniques in your report and then could show you that they were ineffective for them.

    I.e. demonstrate that the product delivered was not as described.

    If the person had applied your techniques and emailed you a couple of days after purchase to say they got no results, then of course you would have to refund them - that would be only fair and reasonable.

    But clearly within 2 minutes this is not possible. Within that time they could not possibly establish that your product was not as described.

    So the reality is they are at best treating your refund policy as a product "trial", which I assume is something you don't offer.

    At worst they are treating it as a way to steal from you, which is not something you should allow.

    By granting refunds automatically you encourage serial refunders, and you let it be known that you are open to being stolen from.

    If your refund policy is made clear before purchase, you have nothing to fear from sticking to it and rightfully should.

    Please don't encourage serial refunders any more than they already have been.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5464903].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ErikNilsson
    Asked refund in two minutes Man I'm sure your stuff will be floating in BH forums...
    Signature
    USA Bank Account + ATM Card for Non-USA Residents Service PM me
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5464947].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    Guys.. this thread is from July of last year.

    I dont think he needs advice on this anymore
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5464990].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MobApps
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      Guys.. this thread is from July of last year.

      I dont think he needs advice on this anymore
      He might not need advice anymore but others will read this thread and the info could help them.

      After all a lot of us just found this thread today, so more will see it tomorrow and so on.

      Just sayin....
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465242].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author paul_1
    Refund, block him from downloading, remove him from your list and move on is the best way to deal with serial refunders... Clickbank wont allow serial refunders to buy any of their products within 60 days...
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465098].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author RichardDean
    Well I never use to ask for a refund EVER... But now I do on occasion.

    No it's not me who asked for this refund.

    I can tell in just a few minutes myself if the product is good or not...

    If your product is just theory about you can make 10,000 to 15,000 in a month if you do this then you better tell me in the sales page it is just my theory I have not made this much money if you lie I will refund.

    If you have a no question asked refund then refund if you make a no refund or you need to tell me why then make it clear. WSO is way out of hand with crap, Sorry but true.

    I have yet to have anyone stand behind their WSO.

    NOTE:
    I challenge anyone with a WSO... I will donate all money made in your name and match it with my own money (so you get the tax write off) for anyone that can prove any WSO.

    if your refund is 100% then refund it and move on.

    Richard
    Signature

    5 Minute Mobile Sites... My Next WSO Comming Soon.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465158].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MobApps
    As for the name and shame........

    This is an extremely bad idea.

    We don't know what this person's reasons are and maybe they are ashamed to say....we don't know. It doesn't necessarily mean that they kept our product. We simply don't know.

    Of course it doesn't feel good and can even hit the pride button for someone to say ...."Hey I didn't like your product and I want my money back"....but it comes with the turf.

    Put the shoe on the other foot. Would you want that (name & shame ) person out there on the forum bad mouthing you and your product which could effectively cost you many sales??

    It's a two way street and the best thing you can do from a business perspective is just be kind to that person and try to keep them as a potential customer for a future product. If they do it to you again then it might be worth taking another look at how to handle them.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465199].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
    Do you have a refund policy, if so then follow it. Doesn't matter by now he has uploaded it to dozen file sharing sites and made a squeeze page of it.

    I have a website where it is common for people to get refunds. I know when they are coming because usually a buyer and seller sign up at the same time. The seller starts posting ads and I know within a day or two the buyer will buy, then they will contact paypal for a chargeback. Ticks me off to no avail, but they win everytime, about the only thing I can do is email them and tell them I know what is going on, It will usually stop it but then I may offend someone if I'm wrong.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465244].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Damielle
    This may be hard to hear but don't take it personal.
    This is just an expense of doing business. If you offer a refund policy you will have refunds...you will also have more sales as well so just focus on your valued customers.

    Give the guy his refund, wish him all the best because he will need it as people who buy and refund immediately obviously have a serious problem and will probably never make it online.

    Publicly shaming him also is a waste of your time and will make you look unprofessional. Just get back to what's important...your paying customers.

    Especially since this is your only refund
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465384].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    The problem I see from instant refund requests is that these are the people most likely to violate copyright and either sell or share the product with no right to do so. While you need to honor refunds if your page says you will - you also need to do a few searches now and again if you are getting instant refunders to make sure the person hasn't got your product up for grabs elsewhere. If they do and they have registered a chargeback, they can suddenly find they have serious problems of their own. They can have some problems even just getting caught sharing or selling your material. Most servers frown on that one.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465386].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Those people do likely NOT ONLY ask for a refund, they are also the ones which will spread your work on warez forums.

    Just saying.
    Signature
    *** Affiliate Site Quick --> The Fastest & Easiest Way to Make Affiliate Sites!<--
    -> VISIT www.1UP-SEO.com *** <- Internet Marketing, SEO Tips, Reviews & More!! ***
    *** HIGH QUALITY CONTENT CREATION +++ Manual Article Spinning (Thread Here) ***
    Content Creation, Blogging, Articles, Converting Sales Copy, Reviews, Ebooks, Rewrites
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465483].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author PerfectSolution
    the serial refunders with that kind of character will not go far in IM and wiyld probably end up as a consistent serial refunder..getting info for free and moving on to see who they can rob next..and running away with the loot. so if it were me, I'd just send the $7 refund and forget the whole thing. for every serial refunder there are hundreds and hopefully thoudands more honest buyers so it all a part of the game.

    I hope you will get thru the initial anger and focus on what's more important.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465546].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Russel Mogul
    It's not worth the headache. Ask him why then give him his refund. People like that don't appreciate much
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465592].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author webpromotions
    Originally Posted by Michael Milken View Post

    If the WSO sellers on here are making the kind of money they claim, I don't see why they put up such a hassle to give a refund for a measly sum. It's not even worth putting up a fight over these small amounts. If a person is one of the many who offer those ultra-bold no questions asked refund policies, I don't see WHY the reason they ask for a refund matters. Just grant the refund and keep it moving.
    Walmart makes a zillion dollars a day.

    Why in the world do they have those stupid cameras and security teams in their store? Whats the big deal if somebody wants the five finger discount, or maybe wants to game their return policies?

    Greedy *******s!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465605].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
      Originally Posted by Michael Milken View Post

      Lastly, if you're gonna be sarcastic, at least make sure it's relevant to the subject at hand. Otherwise, you look silly.
      Angry much? :rolleyes:

      He was joking. And he was relevant.
      Signature
      People make good money selling to the rich. But the rich got rich selling to the masses.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5467554].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
        Originally Posted by Doug English View Post

        Walmart makes a zillion dollars a day.

        Why in the world do they have those stupid cameras and security teams in their store? Whats the big deal if somebody wants the five finger discount, or maybe wants to game their return policies?

        Greedy *******s!
        See? He was joking.

        Originally Posted by Michael Milken View Post

        Accusing me of being angry for pointing out his irrelevant doesn't make sense. But I forgot, that's an eDefense mechanism, when you fail to make your point, accuse the other person of being mad because that automatically diverts attention away from your inability to make a point.
        Now THAT was funny.

        No, he wasn't joking. He was trying to make me look foolish, but he failed because his sarcasm made no sense.
        He was joking. Being sarcastic. And it made sense. But it seems you have issues with people disapproving your ideas/posts/comments... which can be funny too, cause this is a forum! You know, where people discuss stuff all day long...?

        You people need to lighten up a bit.

        Just sayin'.
        Signature
        People make good money selling to the rich. But the rich got rich selling to the masses.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5467630].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author webpromotions
    This thread was clearly about someone who purchased something with the intent to refund immediately - last time I checked, that would be classified as theft or 'gaming the refund policy'.

    Is it OK if you purchase a huge TV from Walmart to watch the Super Bowl, knowing your intent is to just return it after the game?

    That analogy is 100% relevant to the subject at hand, at EXACTLY what happened in this case.

    One of the reasons thing happens so often is because so many people here have the attitude of "oh well, thats just business, let it go".

    No, its not business. Its theft. Pretty simple.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5465769].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ross Petal
    It seems really unfair that a serial refunder should get away with it. I think it's a crime especially if that individual is a frequent offender.

    A friend of mine on here sold an WSO a year ago and has recently received a request for a refund....that just sucks!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5467601].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Patrick Powers
    Just refund. Even if your policy states that they have to try using your stuff first its simly not worth wasting your time and energy on. Don't get angry - just get successful, thats the best revenge over the idiots. (and when you do business its impossible not to encounter idiots from time to time)

    keep smiling and kicking ass - Pat
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5467821].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    Originally Posted by D Ambrose View Post

    I recently read a thread by Steve Wagenheim which showed his annoyance at those who buy your report and then request a refund within MINUTES.

    Now I couldn't relate to him... till now.

    I have just launched a new WSO and everyone BUT this one guy (less than 50 posts on here) is happy with the report.

    He purchased it and then within 2 minutes, has PMed me requesting a refund. Without saying why or anything! Just "refund".

    What would you do?

    Bite the bullet and refund him?
    PM him back and ask why (and how) it's taken him 2 minutes to read and take in 17 pages of information?
    Other?

    It's no harm to me - it's merely $7 bucks.. but I can't stand the thought of members going around this forum and getting information for free. Information that has taken us marketers months putting together?

    Do we name and shame?

    ?!

    Man, I think every Internet Marketer hates and dreads these people.

    The most damage comes not from returning themoney, but sending up flares on Paypal if you get too many serial refunders and your refund rate goes above 2% and Paypal wants to know why...

    In my experience, it's best to refund them before they file a dispute or escalate it to a claim if you refuse. It's better to be done with them, and try to blacklist them if your shopping cart or checkout software has that ability.

    I know it stinks, but the person who said these people don't amount to anything was dead on, so don't even stress this.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5467908].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    I just had one of these attempts, he said he "liked the product but wanted to buy something else." He also accidentely emailed us asking for a refund from another company. If you block their access, does it block access to your thread as well?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5538187].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ShaneGorry
    OK I know you where mad at the time and things come out the wrong way, so I'll assume you meant you don't like people getting paid products for free when you wrote...

    Originally Posted by D Ambrose View Post

    .. but I can't stand the thought of members going around this forum and getting information for free.
    ...But I just couldn't help but smile when I read the above, here on this forum that is just overflowing with free information.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5538396].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author incomemonthly
    As long as you never offered any refund on your WSO, you can stand your ground and fight over it. The person could however submit a dispute with Paypal which is against WSO rules but seen it happen a number of times. If you want to go through the whole process of fighting the person and a possible dispute on your Paypal, you can most likely win but if it's just a cheap product it's not worth it.

    If it's a more expensive product, I just send them an email about refunds for digital products are not possible. But if they demand to have their money back then I send them a refund form to fill out that also promises they will never buy from my WSO's again. You can get some of them to back down but if they insist, I give them the refund and then ban them in the WSO system.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5538401].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
    This is a very old thread 6 months old !!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5538456].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HarrieB
    Ok, In the Business you will always find people who are Gonna try and take the easy way out!!
    Just move on. Usually people who are new and dont have money do this kinda thing.
    But what they miss out on is the future upsells and other good offers.

    And the fact is, one way of earning money may not be good for some one else..
    You will always find leechers and everyday there are so many books released which are not upto the expectations.
    If you are looking for long term relations and a great im future, you should look forward to building a nice list and great quality products!!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5538892].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author rjpbseal
    I always give an immediate refund and also send a message thanking them for trying my product. And then I immediately delete the email with response and never think of it again.
    Just put out good vibes and you can't go wrong.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5539033].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author gojiberryman
    The most logical thing to do would be to refund the individual my friend. You have to understand, not everyone is willing to either read or operate a purchased product of any kind. You have to take into account that not everyone is ready to handle an online business. Especially if the information is quality and detailed. Don't take the desired refund to heart.... it happens.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5539100].message }}

Trending Topics