Where Are The Women Gurus?????

48 replies
Hi Warriors,

This isn't a sexist post by any means, but when people talk about the "GURUS", they all seem to be men????? :confused:

I have always wondered, where are all the women gurus????

This industry is enjoyed by both sexes obviously but women "gurus" never seem to get as much press as the men????? :confused:

Why is this??? Am I missing something???

GoGetta
#guru internet marketing #gurus #women
  • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
    That's maybe because women like to keep a low profile and just get on with it lol

    Kim
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    • Profile picture of the author ptone
      Originally Posted by Kim Standerline View Post

      That's maybe because women like to keep a low profile and just get on with it lol

      Kim
      Now THAT's my kind of woman!
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    • Profile picture of the author tomw
      Originally Posted by Kim Standerline View Post

      That's maybe because women like to keep a low profile and just get on with it lol

      Kim
      Yeah...just like all those quiet, demur and industrious Northern girls we're so famous for here in the UK!



      To the OP, there are plenty of female guru's right here on the forum and out there every day making a fortune.

      Just because this is the internet doesn't mean that all the realities of life, love, business and human nature are any different than in any other sphere.

      The proportions of "visibly" successful people are the same as they always where and probably always will be.

      Thomas
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    • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
      Originally Posted by Kim Standerline View Post

      That's maybe because women like to keep a low profile and just get on with it lol

      Kim
      Exactly.

      You have people like Ros Gardener, who many would see as a guru in the affiliate marketing realm.

      Women tend not to have to go on and on about how big something is. Read we don't have a male ego :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Charles E. White
        Actually, there are hundreds of thousands of women gurus, we have dozens of them, if not hundreds of them right here in the forum.

        Bev, Kay King, Ros and many more.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lindsay Brynn
    or maybe they use male pen names
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Jetsunma Ahkon Lhamo is a reknown female guru, and lives in Poolesville, Maryland.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
    Interesting question.

    I think in part, the lack of female IM gurus is just a reflection of the business world overall. How many female "buisness gurus" in can you name off the cuff, compared to male business gurus?

    I do know of some popular female internet marketers/information marketers, including some here on the forum, but I don't know if they'd want the "guru" label stuck on them.

    As for WHY...I think it gets into the same debate that you find regarding women in high positions in other male-dominated fields. Is it that some form of sexism holds them back from advancing, or is it that women as a group don't have as much interest in those fields to begin with?

    In internet marketing, since there aren't the same organizational constraints (and possible barriers to advancement) that you'd find in othe fields, I'm inclined to believe it's the latter.
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    • Profile picture of the author GuruGazette
      Originally Posted by Hesaidblissfully View Post

      ...Is it that some form of sexism holds them back from advancing, or is it that women as a group don't have as much interest in those fields to begin with?
      ...
      Or maybe they just don't feel the need to get into the p**** waggling contests that tend to be prevalent in this industry :p
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  • Profile picture of the author doylesoft
    Alexandria Brown A.K.A The E-Zine Queen.
    According to her blog she lives a pretty posh life.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Million
    There are a lot of women gurus... "Guru" is just a term for an expert...and there's plenty of women here that are exceptional IMers.

    FYI - There are significantly more "gurus" who don't take the spotlight than those that do...

    Also...being in the spotlight often carries with it a lot of ego and testosterone, something I feel a lot of women don't need (and for a good reason) in order to feel important and have self-worth.

    Hope that helps

    Scott
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  • Profile picture of the author GoGetta
    Thanks for the replies people,

    I actually dont agree with the term GURU! I dont believe anyone is a guru as there is more to learn and GURU to me, means they know everything! And nobody knows everything!

    But you hear of men like Mike Filsaime, Frank Kern etc. and since I have been into IM I have never come across a woman "so called guru" thats all.

    I know there are many people not just women that surf this forum that know there stuff, I was just wondering if there were any, lets say "Commercial" names???

    GoGetta
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    • Profile picture of the author mhenry
      liz Tomey is one of the best known "Guru's" out there, what she teaches is worth looking at.
      I have also got quite a few as friends on myspace, so i think the debate of there being no women guru's is blown out of the water.lol
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  • Profile picture of the author Debbie Songster
    I know a lot of women including myself who promote under a male name.
    Men are automatically accepted as authorities so its not uncommon for women to adopt male pen names and persona's to avoid any possibilities of discrimination affecting a sale.

    Being successful is what we want. Its not important to all women that the world knows who they really are.
    This happens not just in IM but in all industries.

    My husband and I still laugh about the "game" we used to play with customers for our tool box store.
    90% of purchasers are men and men generally prefer to buy from a man - especially if its a tool box. So when answering emails about the tool boxes I would sign my husbands name and when they were ready to buy then I became his "secretary" and completed the sale for him.
    As far as the customer was aware, I was the support person not the actual sales person.
    Even though the store was actually run by me, we developed this system because of the response I used to get when I acted as the primary sales person (either through email or on the phone). After I started using a male name, our close (sales) rate increased.

    I've also done it on sales letters for products I think attract men.

    So when women "fracture" their identity like that, you really don't learn all that they do.
    We know all about Kern, Moffatt and Reese because their name is plastered all over everything. And they promote each other. I don't see these guys promoting the women - maybe they don't know any or maybe its still to much of a boys club at that level.

    At any rate, the women don't care - we just do our thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joanne Greco
      Where Are The Women Gurus?????
      I'm not sure about the guru part, but I just got my new issue of Feed Front magazine in the mail today and the cover story is "The Women Of Affiliate Marketing".
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    • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
      Originally Posted by Debbie Songster View Post

      I know a lot of women including myself who promote under a male name.
      Men are automatically accepted as authorities so its not uncommon for women to adopt male pen names and persona's to avoid any possibilities of discrimination affecting a sale.
      Are you implying that Frank Kern may actually be "Francesca" Kern? I'm shocked...but then again it would explain that long, flowing hair.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Don't worry your head off, I'm right here. Oh wait, I'm no guru, but I'm still here
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  • Profile picture of the author angela99
    Originally Posted by GoGetta View Post

    Hi Warriors,

    This isn't a sexist post by any means, but when people talk about the "GURUS", they all seem to be men????? :confused:

    I have always wondered, where are all the women gurus????

    This industry is enjoyed by both sexes obviously but women "gurus" never seem to get as much press as the men????? :confused:

    Why is this??? Am I missing something???

    GoGetta
    "Press" comes from press releases and similar, so the reason women don't get press is because they're not promoting themselves to this market.

    I'm sure there are lots of women who are making as much IM income (and more) as men, but since they're not going after the newbie IM market, you don't hear about them.

    In general, men are much more comfortable than women using "I am the greatest" tactic as a promotional strategy in any market. Men will do anything to get noticed, women are more subtle. :-)

    Cheers

    Angela
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Denton
    Guru? i thought that term was soo last year
    I think the women don't have as much of an ego as the men so they don't have to give themselves names such as "guru".
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  • Profile picture of the author Debbie Songster
    Are you implying that Frank Kern may actually be "Francesca" Kern? I'm shocked...but then again it would explain that long, flowing hair.

    Now I hadn't thought of that!
    You know what they say? If you haven't heard a good rumor by 10am, start one.
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  • Profile picture of the author famous2313
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    • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
      Rosalind Gardner is probably the first guru I came across in the IM scene when I was just getting started.

      Her ebook was the first ebook I read.

      That said, men tend to dominate business and marketing industries overall, the tables are definitely turned in many other places.

      Fabina
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      • Profile picture of the author Alice Seba
        Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

        That said, men tend to dominate business and marketing industries overall, the tables are definitely turned in many other places.

        Fabina
        Okay "Fabina". ;-)

        Here are some U.S. stats on women-owned business. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "dominate", but the figures are interesting:

        Center for Women’s Business Research: Key Facts About Women-Owned Businesses

        Alice
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        • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
          There are certainly tons of female gurus...

          They just don't demand the same attention, in business, that men do.

          Which is actually a strange paradox because most women that I know love being the center of attention.

          Overall, men and women are both attention whores. We just desire large amounts of attention for different things.

          Marc
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      There are gender differences - whether they are genetic or societal I don't know. Women don't usually have the need many men have to be seen, to be recognized as a guru or to be discussed (or is it "stroked"?).

      A good example are the frequent threads that talk about how family/friends don't understand what a marketer does, don't believe in the marketer's work, etc. I've never seen one of those started by a woman.

      There are important women in IM but IM isn't the center of their life. IM is doing what they enjoy, reaching their personal goals and making money - but they also often have a focus on home and children as a balance.

      When I see a male marketer post that he works 10 hrs or more a day 7 days a week on his computer - I think he has a very patient wife or a great maid.

      But - in some niches - I'm a "Mr."

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      - The best woman guru I know is taking a nap in the other room.
      TRU that BigMike...

      Mine is too..lol.. fiancee and my girl are sleepin today... go figure... I'm slaving away with scripts.. haha

      Peace

      Jay
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Women shouldn't be allowed to be gurus. Because men are smarter than women.

        *Runs Away*
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        • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
            Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

            Good luck finding a place to hide after that comment....
            Sorry Mike. Just a joke. I assumed you were a guy.
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            • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
              Originally Posted by ZigZag View Post

              Sorry Mike. I assumed you were a guy.
              Never mind hiding after your last comment - after THIS one, you'll need to get into witness protection



              Frank
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              • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                I'm starting to get a bit scared now. None of the women have said anything. They're planning something bad for me. I knew I should have said women can be gurus if they're attractive. Don't forget me! *Sad Face* My name was ZigZag.

                Seriously though I think it's awesome that we have so many women on the forum creating a more wonderful life for themselves, their family, and their customers. And of course they can be gurus. I remember reading Rolslin's affiliate marketing book and it was fantastic. And because us guys are all about social status and dominating everything that's probably why all the women are making money while we're arguing about everything.
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              • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
                As a pioneer in this field (I wrote one of the very first books on online marketing, in 1995; I created the first web site of any Penguin USA author, also in 1995; I have had an email newsletter since 1998), this is a question that I have thought long and hard about, and I need to mention two factors that I did not see brought up in this thread so far.

                1)Many men (and some women) have trouble seeing a woman as smarter than they are and as someone they look up to. So if there is someone doing good work who happens to be a woman, that woman becomes invisible to them when they think of who they look up to. I don't think there's anything malicious or consciously sexist in this process, but it happens all the same, and on a mass scale.

                2)There's a clubbiness or "chum factor" when it comes to putting together seminars or group programs that leads male organizers to leave out women. Here I do fault the organizers for somehow not noticing that their lineup of speakers is 90% or sometimes even 100% male. This leads to a self-perpetuating cycle where women like myself, Joan Stewart and Paulette Ensign who are all long-established, extremely capable information marketers do not get invited to participate in high-visibility events.

                It takes an enormous amount of sustained energy to buck these two factors, so most women decide to earn money quietly and effectively and not pursue marketing stardom.

                Marcia Yudkin
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                • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                  Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

                  1)Many men (and some women) have trouble seeing a woman as smarter than they are and as someone they look up to. So if there is someone doing good work who happens to be a woman, that woman becomes invisible to them when they think of who they look up to. I don't think there's anything malicious or consciously sexist in this process, but it happens all the same, and on a mass scale.

                  2)There's a clubbiness or "chum factor" when it comes to putting together seminars or group programs that leads male organizers to leave out women. Here I do fault the organizers for somehow not noticing that their lineup of speakers is 90% or sometimes even 100% male. This leads to a self-perpetuating cycle where women like myself, Joan Stewart and Paulette Ensign who are all long-established, extremely capable information marketers do not get invited to participate in high-visibility events.
                  Marcia,

                  Great points. There's definitely a "clubbiness" gene in males that manifests itself in many businesses and industries, although I detect a change in the younger generation of managers and entrepreneurs.

                  I have to say, also, that it's a two-way street. You, Joan and Paulette are long-established, as you say, but you don't have to wait to be invited to high-visibility events. Why not stage your own? (Forgive me if you have; I haven't heard of any such events).

                  You've been in this business for many years, but only a member here since Feb 08. That's maybe one of the reasons for your lower profile.

                  Please don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that you should change the way you run your business. I'm only putting forward a possible reason for the low profile of many capable women marketers.

                  There can't be many members, male or female, in this forum who don't consider marketers like Bev Clement and Kim Standerline (and so many others) to be at least as smart if not smarter than themselves. These women post regularly and have a consequently higher profile.

                  So while it's clear that men, in general, have still to appreciate the full potential of women in (any) business, many women themselves may yet have a few things to learn about the business of self promotion.

                  All the best


                  Frank
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                • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                  One of my favourite self-development gurus is Susan Jeffers who wrote the best-selling "Fear The Fear And Do It Anyway." Definitely someone I look up to and respect. I recommend that you sign up for her newsletter (Google it) because there's some amazing affirmations you can use to be more successful. And while there may be factors which make it less probable for women to reach stardom there are plenty of women who have. And in my opinion there's no excuse for not maximizing your success.
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    I was just reminded of a quote.. can't remember where I heard it and it may not be quoted exactly...

    Behind every great man.. there is a great woman

    Peace

    Jay
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  • Profile picture of the author Alice Seba
    Oh Frank, please don't fool yourself into thinking that posting at the WF leads one to a higher profile. This forum is just one tiny little corner of online marketing and Marcia is well established in other circles.

    I meet Internet Marketers all the time who don't know who John Reese, Frank Kern or (insert guru name)...there's no wy they can be known by everyone.

    Alice
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    • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
      Originally Posted by Alice Seba View Post

      Oh Frank, please don't fool yourself into thinking that posting at the WF leads one to a higher profile. This forum is just one tiny little corner of online marketing and Marcia is well established in other circles.

      I meet Internet Marketers all the time who don't know who John Reese, Frank Kern or (insert guru name)...there's no wy they can be known by everyone.

      Alice
      I ran out of thanks for today.. so I had to reply to say Bravo Alice... you are spot on there...

      The WF is but a grain of sand in the marketing beaches of the world, although this place is HUGE and VERY, VERY powerful.. it isn't the ONLY marketing community that exists online and offline..

      Peace

      Jay
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by Alice Seba View Post

      Oh Frank, please don't fool yourself into thinking that posting at the WF leads one to a higher profile. This forum is just one tiny little corner of online marketing and Marcia is well established in other circles.

      I meet Internet Marketers all the time who don't know who John Reese, Frank Kern or (insert guru name)...there's no wy they can be known by everyone.
      Fair point, Alice. However the WF is the foremost internet marketing forum; although I realise it's just a small part of the IM world.


      BTW You meet internet marketers who haven't heard of Reese or Kern? See if you can find out their secret.


      Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author Alice Seba
        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        Fair point, Alice. However the WF is the foremost internet marketing forum; although I realise it's just a small part of the IM world.


        BTW You meet internet marketers who haven't heard of Reese or Kern? See if you can find out their secret.


        Frank
        Yeah, but I don't think it breeds the long-term gurus it *may* have in the past. I also don't necessarily think it's "foremost" or how you would judge that. Of course, Allen says "#1 Internet Marketing Forum" and he probably determined that in some logical way, but it's still subjective. A lot of forums or places where Internet marketers meet may not be labeled as "internet marketing" forums (ex. Webmasterworld.com).

        Plus, if you want to know something about a lot of women marketers, they stick together. We have secret (well, they're not that secret) places we gather, plot and share. No we're not all gurus, but we are out there in HUGE numbers. You just probably don't see us.

        THE SECRET: Keep your email inbox clean. :-)

        Of course, I know who Kern and Reese are - they're top-notch. But there are a bunch of other (maybe B-list???) gurus people at the WF are always talking about...I haven't a clue who they are. I am not interested in the flavor of the month - I just keep on keepin' on.

        Alice
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    I used to have a Nike shirt that said something like behind every great man is a better woman
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  • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
    Simple: Guys like to walk around strutting their stuff (an example: peacocks) while women are much more practical.

    TomG.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    I see this topic come up from time to time and it always puzzles me a little bit...

    Alice Seba has already poked her head in here before I could suggest her as a perfect example of a well-known and widely respected woman in IM.

    Lynn Terry and Carrie Wilkerson come to mind instantly as marketers and authorities that few can rival.

    Donna Fox has already been mentioned...

    Smart is smart and all of the women listed in this thread are great examples of sharp marketers who happen to be women.

    I love the example Debbie gave above. That's just flat out SMART MARKETING and knowing your customer. Men are fairly simple creatures, predictable to a fault.

    That said, as Alice mentioned, the WAHM market is pretty insular. As a male, if you venture into those waters without a female companion, you may be eaten alive -- and you won't like it... ; )

    I have a close friend and client who just launched a new business in 2008 that is extremely unique in that it involves audio production and recording studios (a typically male dominated industry if there ever was one) combined with children's parties. In large part, the success of this new business is almost entirely due to the power of word of mouth referral from mom to mom because the business is owned and run by a great mom herself.

    You'd have to be completely brain-dead not to see that as a distinct market ADVANTAGE.

    As an aside, can I just go on record as saying how much I enjoy having women as clients? They are more prepared, take action faster, are better organized... And I have never had a single female "dangling chad" client*.

    Best,

    Brian

    * Dangling Chad clients are the ones that hound you for quotes, call or email you incessantly, plan, plot,.... then disappear or wuss out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Debbie Songster
    * Dangling Chad clients are the ones that hound you for quotes, call or email you incessantly, plan, plot,.... then disappear or wuss out.
    Thats because most of them have to go home and ask their wives

    Seriously

    My husband is fantastic in sales. He could sell you a 3 legged dog and you would still like him after you give him your money.
    He knows how to read a customer AND he treats women differently than men because women buy differently than men.

    So, yes you do have to know your customer.

    A successful sales person is not about hammering a message into the prospect and trapping them until they cough up the money. Its all about being their "personal shopper" for the item you are selling them.

    My husband sells boats - you know what it says on his business card?
    It doesn't say sales rep or sales associate it says Fun Coordinator.

    I know this off topic a bit from the OP - sorry Brian opened the door - I couldn't resist
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    • Profile picture of the author susanm
      Originally Posted by Debbie Songster View Post

      A successful sales person is not about hammering a message into the prospect and trapping them until they cough up the money. Its all about being their "personal shopper" for the item you are selling them.

      My husband sells boats - you know what it says on his business card?
      It doesn't say sales rep or sales associate it says Fun Coordinator.
      This is a great reminder. I'm writing it down!

      Susan
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      Just passing through.

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  • Profile picture of the author Debbie Songster
    Behind every fall of a GREAT MAN.....there was a woman.

    think about that
    Yeah probably because he didn't listen to her! Is he still great if he falls? LOL

    You left the door open on that one... LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      Behind every great man, there's a great women. Washing dishes and preparing dinner.
      Ouch.
      Did someone just throw something at me?
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  • Profile picture of the author wirefire
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    • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
      Originally Posted by wirefire View Post

      Cool post.
      wirefire -- time for you to contribute something more than those two words. You've made 8 junk posts that just say "cool post." Trying to get your post count up?


      Every one else -- sorry about the interruption. Carry on, carry on.
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      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        I was looking through my article archives and found this from something I wrote in 2002:

        If your company decrees no talking to the media:
        A. You comply.
        B. You defy it.

        Keeping a low public profile is safest and wise.
        A. Of course.
        B. No way!

        Overexposure in the media is bad for business.
        A. True.
        B. There's no such thing as overexposure.

        According to Betty Spence, President of the National Association of Female Executives, women tend to follow course A and men course B. She cites an Associated Press reporter who estimates that nine out of ten women turn down opportunities for interviews, while nine out of ten men accept. Within corporations, she adds, men seek out media training and spokesperson roles while women rarely do.

        If accurate, this shows that women have some catching up to do!
        In my earlier comments, I may have given the impression that I think the lower visibility of women experts is due to sexism, and I do think that is partly true. However, women also contribute to their own lower visibility, as shown by the above.

        Both of these factors are mainly unconscious and habitual.

        Marcia Yudkin
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        Check out Marcia Yudkin's No-Hype Marketing Academy for courses on copywriting, publicity, infomarketing, marketing plans, naming, and branding - not to mention the popular "Marketing for Introverts" course.
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