To Spin or Not to Spin Articles.

100 replies
Hi, All.
I'm gearing up to start my article marketing. From all of my research, I learned that article marketing falls into two categories.

1. Post good articles on your own site then create backlinks to them via social media and such.
2. Spin Articles into multiple versions and post it in many article directories as you can, creating backlinks to your landing page.

While most are in agreement that method 1 still works, there is some debate whether or not method 2 still works(create backlinks that help search ranking), or if it ever worked at all. Some even say it hurts ranking.

What is your experience ?
#articles #spin
  • How about populating your website with relevant content offering excellent benefits written in a style, packaged in ways and injected with your own expertise and personality not found elsewhere, before having it published as unique content by webmasters of authority websites with contextually relevant, top ranking pages in Google for your target keywords, heavily trafficked by people interested in specific topics and sub topics relevant to your website content, products and services?
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  • Profile picture of the author DIGITALCHAMELEON
    I will prefer the method number 2 we after the quality and not the quantity.
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  • Profile picture of the author PeterGarety
    Combination of both will get you results.

    Create unique article and post it on your own website and then create a semi-automatic spin version that has a new last sentence for each paragraph, unique style elements and different paragraph layout for each version and then just distribute it to as many top sites as you can - better web 2.0 site.
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    • Profile picture of the author Goldenboy
      Originally Posted by PeterGarety View Post

      Combination of both will get you results.

      Create unique article and post it on your own website and then create a semi-automatic spin version that has a new last sentence for each paragraph, unique style elements and different paragraph layout for each version and then just distribute it to as many top sites as you can - better web 2.0 site.
      I definitely go with this answer by PeterGarety, as long as you keep these two options balanced. I would have to inform you that most articles are base on its quality and not its quantity. You have to first have your own original article that is unique and with top quality content. Before you create a spin version of your article, try to make some rewrites of that article to make some new articles from it. Then, you can now create a spin version of your article which will get some backlinking for SEO. By the way, after you spin some articles, try to recheck and make some corrections to the finished article.
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  • Profile picture of the author aneel90
    I prefer the first one. The second one used to be a great way of getting backlinks for SEO, but most spinners just throw out a lot of junk. I prefer to write a few good articles and work with them rather than having too many junky articles.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anish
    Exactly like PeterGarety said.

    Do both.. in a balanced manner. Post SEO-optimized content on your site, do social bookmarking, promote from social media and then get to Articles Marketing. Spun articles are fine, as long as they're making sense and have enough uniqueness. Good content is the key, IMHO.
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  • Profile picture of the author hybrid43
    I know the spun articles in non-reputable directories are no longer having with SEO. But they generate traffic?
    Also does submitting the same article submitted to multiple sites have a negative or positive effect?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by PeterGarety View Post

      Combination of both will get you results.

      Create unique article and post it on your own website and then create a semi-automatic spin version that has a new last sentence for each paragraph, unique style elements and different paragraph layout for each version and then just distribute it to as many top sites as you can - better web 2.0 site.
      Originally Posted by aneel90 View Post

      I prefer the first one. The second one used to be a great way of getting backlinks for SEO, but most spinners just throw out a lot of junk. I prefer to write a few good articles and work with them rather than having too many junky articles.

      I agree with both. And I also suggest that when submitting content to other sites, try mixing up some content that isn't spun and is considered "duplicate", as well as spinning some content.

      Instead of taking the word of others, find out for yourself what works.

      Plus each technique offers different benefits: Doop content is easier. Spun content offers more keyword diversity and may have other advantages.

      But if you do spin, make sure you do a good job. Grammar may play a part in SEO, and readability does play a part in click-throughs and reputation.

      So when you do spin, take a look at your output and make the necessary corrections before creating versions ready for submitting.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

    Some even say it hurts ranking.

    What is your experience?
    If you have a long, slow, careful read through this fine three-page thread, which contains the last few days' discussions of exactly the question you're thinking about, you'll see my experience and that of many other professional article marketers.

    It may even be particularly interesting for you, because almost all of them are very different indeed from the opinions given so far in this thread.

    I think this shorter thread, also very recent/current, will also be very helpful to you.

    You'll get a wide range of views, in those threads - and will be able to see them for what they are, I think, with only minimal "interpretation".

    Those are just a couple of threads from the last few days, answering your question. Of course there are 100 others, just the same: playing around with the forum's "Search" function will help you to find more of them.

    Like many now-successful article marketers (in contrast to the "article directory marketers" some of whom are still - albeit decreasingly - trying to use spinning), I have enough experience of spinning and mass-submission to have clearly-formed and clearly-analysed reasons for abandoning it.

    Sadly, those with financial interests of their own in promoting spinning software, perhaps because their income depends on it, are traditionally quick to denigrate the opinions of those of us making our livings from article marketing, sometimes even to the point of trying to dissuade others from reading objective threads in which a wide range of opinion from successful marketers emerges. But according to some of the people promoting spinning/submission software/services, there can be "problems" with threads in which successful marketers with experience of both spinning and not spinning compare the two.

    I'm sure you're perceptive and realistic enough to see through that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      If you have a long, slow, careful read through this fine three-page thread, which contains the last few days' discussions of exactly the question you're thinking about, you'll see my experience and that of many other professional article marketers.

      It may even be particularly interesting for you, because almost all of them are very different indeed from the opinions given so far in this thread.

      I think this shorter thread, also very recent/current, will also be very helpful to you.
      There's a problem or two with the threads Alexa likes to link to...First, if you follow their posts, those that say "don't spin" actually don't spin themselves and don't really have first-hand knowledge. Their opinions are based on they have other strategies that work. Which is good. However, it doesn't mean they are experienced when it comes to the benefits of spinning.

      They also tend to focus on writing and not SEO. Again, nothing wrong with that, but if you're looking for SEO advice, it's probably best to ask those that do spinning for SEO purposes.

      You may also notice it's really a very small group of Warriors that say the same things over and over...Because of this, I suggest you get your info and opinions from a larger collection of Warriors.

      Here's the problem...Many folks ask for similar advice in the Main Warrior discussion forum. Instead, you'll get more Warriors with more experience concerning SEO, spinning, linking etc. in the Warrior board specifically dedicated to SEO matters:
      http://www.warriorforum.com/search.p...rchid=10194255

      And here's a few good threads concerning spinning for submitting articles from experienced Warriors to help get you started:
      http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...automatic.html

      http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ource-box.html

      http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...save-time.html

      You'll find quite a few opinions that are just as qualified, if not more so, than the folks on the links Alexa posted above.
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      • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        There's a problem or two with the threads Alexa likes to link to...First, if you follow their posts, those that say "don't spin" actually don't spin themselves and don't really have first-hand knowledge. Their opinions are based on they have other strategies that work. Which is good. However, it doesn't mean they are experienced when it comes to the benefits of spinning.

        They also tend to focus on writing and not SEO. Again, nothing wrong with that, but if you're looking for SEO advice, it's probably best to ask those that do spinning for SEO purposes.
        Okay... I certainly don't contribute in any way as much as Alexa, BUT I have offered my opinions in a number of threads similar to this in the past.

        I do have experience of both options. A number of years ago, I took out a subscription to one of the popular, much promoted article spinning and submission services.

        I wrote my best articles for my website, guest posting and Ezine Articles, and paid writers to create the articles I used with the submission service.

        I ran both systems in tandem for approximately 18 months. A fair trial, I think you will agree?

        I eventually quit the submission service because:

        1. The quality of the sites it submits to is abysmally low, and my articles were published alongside others full of spelling and grammatical mistakes.
        2. When checking the backlinks created, over and over, it was a case of here today, gone tomorrow.
        3. The backlinks which did stick were of such low quality, I would have needed to create thousands to equal some of the very high quality backlinks I was achieving with guest posting.
        Oh, I agree, spinning and mass submitting does create backlinks, but, to repeat myself, they are of particularly low quality, and, I believe, a bunch of inferior backlinks are viewed as "spammy" by Google.

        I go to great lengths to achieve the highest level of on-page seo, while I then allow my off-page seo to evolve virally and I truly believe THIS is what sticks, and produces the best, long term results.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        There's a problem or two with the threads Alexa likes to link to...First, if you follow their posts, those that say "don't spin" actually don't spin themselves and don't really have first-hand knowledge. Their opinions are based on they have other strategies that work. Which is good. However, it doesn't mean they are experienced when it comes to the benefits of spinning.

        They also tend to focus on writing and not SEO. Again, nothing wrong with that, but if you're looking for SEO advice, it's probably best to ask those that do spinning for SEO purposes.

        You may also notice it's really a very small group of Warriors that say the same things over and over...Because of this, I suggest you get your info and opinions from a larger collection of Warriors.

        Here's the problem...Many folks ask for similar advice in the Main Warrior discussion forum. Instead, you'll get more Warriors with more experience concerning SEO, spinning, linking etc. in the Warrior board specifically dedicated to SEO matters:
        http://www.warriorforum.com/search.p...rchid=10194255

        And here's a few good threads concerning spinning for submitting articles from experienced Warriors to help get you started:
        http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...automatic.html

        http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ource-box.html

        http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...save-time.html

        You'll find quite a few opinions that are just as qualified, if not more so, than the folks on the links Alexa posted above.

        I'm not sure why you think that the links you give are better than those Alexa features. I have "fixed" articles for people who spin and want them re-written. I've learned to turn down such work. For one thing, the amount of rewrite necessary to make them even correct is ridiculous. Second - it doesn't matter what page google puts you on if you don't look good to the reader. How much complete rehash can a person put on their site before they lose any uniqueness that would have won people's repeat business?

        You want the real test of the issue?

        Research ALL of these threads. Then look at how successful marketers respond - and how many of those who think spinning is just dandy are now complaining about their websites not ranking any more. Watch all of the really successful marketers who comment that they pay top dollar for original, well written articles. They get both SEO and good conversions and never once worry about websites being tossed to the back pages of google or being completely delisted.

        My position has become - go ahead and spin if you want to. Don't come back in here crying about your traffic falling off, no or low conversion, or being delisted if that's how you run your business.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          I'm not sure why you think that the links you give are better than those Alexa features. I have "fixed" articles for people who spin and want them re-written. I've learned to turn down such work. For one thing, the amount of rewrite necessary to make them even correct is ridiculous. Second - it doesn't matter what page google puts you on if you don't look good to the reader. How much complete rehash can a person put on their site before they lose any uniqueness that would have won people's repeat business?

          You want the real test of the issue?

          Research ALL of these threads. Then look at how successful marketers respond - and how many of those who think spinning is just dandy are now complaining about their websites not ranking any more. Watch all of the really successful marketers who comment that they pay top dollar for original, well written articles. They get both SEO and good conversions and never once worry about websites being tossed to the back pages of google or being completely delisted.

          My position has become - go ahead and spin if you want to. Don't come back in here crying about your traffic falling off, no or low conversion, or being delisted if that's how you run your business.
          Sal,

          You're making a lot of assumptions here.

          I've had plent of LEGIT, non-spun sites dropped in ranking over my 15 years of SEO. But I haven't had any deindexed. Funny thing is though, what I consider my "best" content site, I'm having problems getting it indexed in the first place. I put up some "spammy" stuff, just as content I needed to test something techie. Those pages got indexed. Took me forever to get them out of Google, as it wasn't my intention for them to ge included. Spammy pages in, good content pages out.

          And those 3 links I posted are hardly the total sum of opinions opposite of Alexa's, so people can get a "fair and balanced" point of view. I suggest you not only research ALL of the SEO related threads, that you also research ALL of the other SEO related forums.

          BTW, I do have a pretty good network of SEO friends I've built over my 15+ years of SEO. And I'm not hearing them cry at all. Some are even doing better after Panda...
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            People need to remember that Alexa has already stated that she isn't an SEO expert and she hasn't spun articles. She simply relies on hearsay, rather than actual experience.
            That's simply untruthful, Kurt.

            You've brought the conversation down to a whole new level. Do you really feel you have no alternative, in these discussions, than to try to belittle and denigrate me, and to give a misleading account of my experience? Well, I guess that speaks for itself.

            I have plenty of experience of spinning articles. As I've discussed in dozens of threads, it was how I started off. Like so many of the article syndicators, here. Most of us have tried different business models and rejected one of them on the basis of our experience.

            And as mentioned above (and repeatedly in many other threads) my experience corroborates the research findings presented by Anne in post #13 above, and others' findings, and what I've subsequently read in so many SEO textbooks.

            "Sorry about that."

            Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

            So, roughly how long would/should it take for one to write a spun article "properly"?
            Well, everyone has their own view of "properly", don't they?

            When I was spinning articles, I often (not always, I admit) found it easier (and far less boring) to write a new one than to spin one to a level/standard at which I was actually willing to have potential customers read it.

            People selling spinning software/services may, of course, contend that they're not writing for people, only for search engines. But of course that "reasoning" simply takes us back to all the points covered in this thread, and this shorter thread in which so many successful article marketers explain their views.
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          • Profile picture of the author sundown16
            ....I know spun articles are very tempting to fast-forward the article/SEO thing, but I agree with ftlluke ...it's more work spinning them then churning out new content. I still think you have to roll up your sleeves and deliver your own original articles.. avoid duplicate worries and get on with it
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          • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
            Originally Posted by Marx Vergel Melencio View Post

            How about populating your website with relevant content offering excellent benefits written in a style, packaged in ways and injected with your own expertise and personality not found elsewhere, before having it published as unique content by webmasters of authority websites with contextually relevant, top ranking pages in Google for your target keywords, heavily trafficked by people interested in specific topics and sub topics relevant to your website content, products and services?

            If the sentences in your articles are as long as this, it doesn't matter whether they are spun or not. They definitely won't make much sense ;-)
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              Originally Posted by Steadyon View Post

              If the sentences in your articles are as long as this, it doesn't matter whether they are spun or not. They definitely won't make much sense ;-)
              Marx is blind.

              He writes this with an extreme skill that I hope you never have to learn.

              Always good to think before you post sometimes.
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              • Profile picture of the author myob
                And, I might add, that one question posed by Marx contains more power and insight than anything a sighted person has posted here.
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                • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
                    Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                    ....and certainly way more than Steadyons two p*** taking "contributions".

                    Hey Richard Van, chill out.

                    My first comment was meant to be humorous regarding how some spinning can make something completely unreadable.

                    The second one is valid in terms of the length of the sentence, and I did it with a wink. It was not a personal attack.

                    Who rattled your cage?
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    • Profile picture of the author Vikram73
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      IBut according to some of the people promoting spinning/submission software/services, there can be "problems" with threads in which successful marketers with experience of both spinning and not spinning compare the two.

      I'm sure you're perceptive and realistic enough to see through that.

      I don't promote spinning software. I don't have any financial interest in it. My only interest is to make a lot money online in an ethical manner. SEO is a good way to "make money online" for me.

      Getting someone to spin your content and blast it through some paid article directories (UAW, SEOLM) will help you get your blog ranked better for the keywords you're going after. Keep in mind it has to be a good quality article (500+ words) and properly spun.

      You can test this theory out on your own (don't listen to Alexa, don't listen to me or anyone else just get off your lazy a$$ and do it yourself).

      Anyway, test it yourself and see. It's not that expensive to get this sort of stuff outsourced - wouldn't be surprised if there are a few reliables warriors he in the services section that can do it for you.

      The problem with SEO is that there are a million different factors at play and the only way to properly see the results is to do it yourself.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Keith
        Originally Posted by vikramd View Post

        I don't promote spinning software. I don't have any financial interest in it. My only interest is to make a lot money online in an ethical manner.

        SEO is a good way to "make money online".
        so spamming the web with content to get better SEO is ethical? Is this content you would want to read yourself to help you research a problem you are trying to solve? most likely not.

        This is just another fad "tactic" that unfortunately does work. it does not work as well as it used to, and 1 year from now it will work even less than it does now... just like email spam...the powers that be will cut down on content spam as it has no real value to their end users.

        and i dont blame anyone for looking out for their best interests, but lets call article spinning what it is...spam content used to trick the search engines into thinking your site is more of an authority site on a given topic than it really is. can anyone argue differently...i am all ears?

        the google "panda" update started solving this spam problem and they will continue to.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shilpa
    Its a good idea to spin article into multiple versions. It is a good process to get quality backlinks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kyle Oliveiro
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      The concept of article spinning may indeed work for low competition key words/phrases, but it is getting increasingly difficult to rank even for long tail keywords. It is folly as it is a sisyphean task to blast increasingly amounts of spun articles for backlinks from article directories. As mentioned, there are willing profiteers eager to provide tools and services, but for the most part is beyond reach of the average article marketer to profitably rank.

      In diametric contrast, none of my sites have ever ranked in any of my niches, due to the highly competitive nature of my targeted markets. But through leveraged marketing of my articles, they are positioned in the high-ranking outlets including many PR4 - PR7 websites and blogs. The competition is intense for a reason - that's where the big bucks live. The real money has always been in article syndication; article spinning is a newcomer profitable primarily for its promoters and ancillary service providers.
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      • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        The concept of article spinning may indeed work for low competition key words/phrases, but it is getting increasingly difficult to rank. It is folly as it is a sisyphean task to blast increasingly amounts of spun articles for backlinks from article directories. As mentioned, there are willing profiteers eager to provide tools and services, but for the most part is beyond reach of the average article marketer.
        .
        I thought your primary method of backlinking was using unspun articles??? Now you're an expert in what works and doesn't work as far as article spinning goes? Because I have tons of evidence that speaks contrary to your statement.
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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Matt, I know your service is perhaps effective - by massive and sheer brute force. But your methods are far beyond the ability and resources of average folks. :rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

          I thought your primary method of backlinking was using unspun articles??? Now you're an expert in what works and doesn't work as far as article spinning goes?
          It seems to me, Matt, that almost all of the successful article marketers I know are in positions very similar to the one Annie describes above: they've turned their back on spinning and automated submission, and in favour of another kind of article marketing, after finding that it didn't work out for them.

          Annie's experiences and testing, described just above, certainly corroborates my own (and that of many others here, I know).

          We have a forum-full of threads here with headings like "Article Writing Doesn't Work Any More" and "Is Article Marketing Dead?". You must have seen many of them? Of course, the business model described in all of those threads is one that typically comprises spinning and automated submission - in other words, it isn't actually "article marketing" at all: it's just "article directory marketing".

          I don't doubt for a moment your own considerable success with a closely related model, but I'm sure you'd be the first to agree that the mass automated submission of spun content to huge network of sites owned by yourself, in pursuit of (as you explained in a recent thread) around 500,000 backlinks per day, is hardly an activity well suited to "the average article marketer". Indeed, if anything, it seems to me to confirm the statements made in so many standard SEO textbooks that the link-juice from something between 50,000 and 100,000 non-context-relevant, PR-0 article directory backlinks is typically equivalent to that from one backlink on a relevant authority site.
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          • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
            Originally Posted by myob View Post

            Matt, I know your service is perhaps effective - by massive and sheer brute force. But your methods are far beyond the ability and resources of average folks. :rolleyes:
            Not true at all. A blog network of 200 sites would cost under $500 to set up and under $100 a month to maintain. That is how many sites we started out with when we started.

            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            It seems to me, Matt, that almost all of the successful article marketers I know are in positions very similar to the one Annie describes above: they've turned their back on spinning and automated submission, and in favour of another kind of article marketing, after finding that it didn't work out for them.

            Annie's experiences and testing, described just above, certainly corroborates my own (and that of many others here, I know).

            We have a forum-full of threads here with headings like "Article Writing Doesn't Work Any More" and "Is Article Marketing Dead?". You must have seen many of them? Of course, the business model described in all of those threads is one that typically comprises spinning and automated submission - in other words, it isn't actually "article marketing" at all: it's just "article directory marketing".

            I don't doubt for a moment your own considerable success with a closely related model, but I'm sure you'd be the first to agree that the mass automated submission of spun content to huge network of sites owned by yourself, in pursuit of (as you explained in a recent thread) around 500,000 backlinks per day, is hardly an activity well suited to "the average article marketer". Indeed, if anything, it seems to me to confirm the statements made in so many standard SEO textbooks that the link-juice from something between 50,000 and 100,000 non-context-relevant, PR-0 article directory backlinks is typically equivalent to that from one backlink on a relevant authority site.
            Standard seo textbooks? Written by whom? Were they written by someone who grabbed over 3000 page one rankings in the last 12 months? If not then ask me nicely and I will be willing to write one for you. Because I have grabbed that many page one rankings.

            Name a single seo expert who has grabbed more than that. Just one please.

            So you go ahead and keep polishing your pennies telling me my system is unoptimized and whatever else you want to call it.

            You're sitting on the outside telling me I need to blast out 100k of backlinks to be equivalent to 1 backlink on a high pr site?

            That is simply incorrect.

            You're grabbing your data from text books? And you have the audacity to act like an expert on the subject?

            I say bad on you.
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

              You're grabbing your data from text books?
              No, I'm not. I'm quoting statements widely (universally, I think?) made in textbooks in support of my own observations and experience, which I had before I read them.

              Unlike much "online information", because of the enormous investment made in those textbooks by their publishers, they tend to be peer-revewed, commissioned only from widely acknowledged experts with overwhelmingly successful experience, reliably checked and verified, and strictly quality-controlled in all aspects of their information and production. It's a whole different world from some of the crap one reads online, especially when - as is so often the case - people are simply promoting the alleged benefits of something they're selling (and often without even saying so).

              Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

              I say bad on you.
              Thanks for making you making your thoughts so unambiguously clear.

              In spite of that, and in great contrast to it, I still acknowledge your own great success, with your privately owned blog/site network and the 500,000 backlinks per day which you've been explaining are your "bread and butter". As I keep saying, I don't doubt for a moment that that works for you, and works well.

              It just saddens me that you seem, so regularly and reliably, to feel the need to belittle all the rest of us, whose business model is so different from your own, and perhaps so much more manageable for the average person without your expertise and resources.
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              • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                No, I'm not. I'm quoting statements widely (universally, I think?) made in textbooks in support of my own observations and experience, which I had before I read them.

                Unlike much "online information", because of the enormous investment made in those textbooks by their publishers, they tend to be peer-revewed, commissioned only from widely acknowledged experts with overwhelmingly successful experience, reliably checked and verified, and strictly quality-controlled in all aspects of their information and production. It's a whole different world from some of the crap one reads online, especially when - as is so often the case - people are simply promoting the alleged benefits of something they're selling (and often without even saying so).



                Thanks for making you making your thoughts so unambiguously clear.

                In spite of that, and in great contrast to it, I still acknowledge your own great success, with your privately owned blog/site network and the 500,000 backlinks per day which you've been explaining are your "bread and butter". As I keep saying, I don't doubt for a moment that that works for you, and works well.

                It just saddens me that you seem, so regularly and reliably, to feel the need to belittle all the rest of us, whose business model is so different from your own, and perhaps so much more manageable for the average person without your expertise and resources.
                I have no need to belittle anyone on this forum. You mistake me calling you out on your facts as belittlement. You make erroneous claims that I know to be false from my own experience and then claim you are being backed by seo textbook authors. Then when called on it you claim I am belittling you?

                That was precisely why I said bad on you.
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            • Profile picture of the author myob
              Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

              .. A blog network of 200 sites would cost under $500 to set up and under $100 a month to maintain. That is how many sites we started out with when we started.
              For under $50 a month for a domain, hosting, autoresponder, etc one can start out syndicating articles; driving traffic from high PR websites that are already ranked for targeted keywords. That is how I started and continue doing. For almost nothing, I am jerking the chains of the competition in virtually every hot market that I decide to break into. :p
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              • Profile picture of the author SeanLee
                I use both of the methods. They still work!

                Nothing happened to the rankings of article directories such as Ezine Articles, or Articlesbase.
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                • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by SeanLee View Post

                  Nothing happened to the rankings of article directories such as Ezine Articles
                  Even Chris Knight, the owner of Ezine Articles, has reported (at some length and in great detail) exactly the opposite, on the company's blog.

                  There are also many threads here full of EZA authors bearing out his perspective. Just saying ...
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                • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
                  Originally Posted by SeanLee View Post

                  I use both of the methods. They still work!

                  Nothing happened to the rankings of article directories such as Ezine Articles, or Articlesbase.
                  EZA's traffic was cut practically in half:

                  Search Engine Algorithm Changes
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                • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
                  Originally Posted by SeanLee View Post

                  I use both of the methods. They still work!

                  Nothing happened to the rankings of article directories such as Ezine Articles, or Articlesbase.
                  Are you sure about that?

                  While some, who used EZA in the proper way, were largely unaffected (and may have actually seen an INCREASE in traffic/sales), I can't help but think this graph has at least something to do with article spinning.

                  On many top tier blogs, when those marketers are pushing for sale of article spinning software, for the longest time, the mantra has been "spin your articles...and, then post them to Ezine Articles"...that would typically be paired with "don't ever touch your OWN properties with spun content"...

                  So, it's OK to touch article directories and Web 2.0 sites with spun content, but it's "not" OK to touch your own properties with it? Seems to me that some could care less what happens to the site, and, subsequently, the effort and hard work of the many who spend hours writing content that is of value and high quality.....yet, those affiliates keep pushing the sale of article spinning software....

                  Perhaps, they aren't training their audiences well enough in how to produce "high quality spun content"? To me, it's a matter of efficiency and timeliness, as well.....ethics aside, in order to do a "high quality" spun article, it would just take me multiples of the time it would take me to write a single article.

                  And...now we see THIS....

                  Interpret this how you like. I tend to believe this impact is directly related to spun content, as well as, the site itself having poor quality control standards (not having the safeguards in place to control for spun content).

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                  • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
                    So...to what extent do you all believe spinning was responsible for what we see in THIS graph?

                    Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post


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                    • Profile picture of the author hybrid43
                      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                      By re-educating myself about the "number of articles needed".

                      That's not what article marketing's about, at all.

                      If I "had to produce" a large number of articles per day, I'd already have gone wrong at the higher and more important level of understanding what I'm doing and how article marketing works, and what it's all about. Once I was in a position where I had to start thinking about the "number of articles per day", and was looking at my article marketing from a fundamentally quantitative perspective, it wouldn't very much matter what my answers were, because I'd be asking myself the wrong question (and back to "not really making a living from it", let alone "building up a real business from it").
                      Good points. I thank you for your comment. Unfortunately, your answer is out of the scope the question asked. You are welcome to try again under the scope of what is being asked. It keeps everyone on topic, and limits going off track.

                      Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

                      So...to what extent do you all believe spinning was responsible for what we see in THIS graph?
                      Thank you for your comment. I'm not quite sure what you are asking here. If I'm not mistaken, that's a screen shot of ezinearticles.com stats. They seem to be doing well, which isn't really surprising. It should be quite normal that ezine gets much traffic inbound and outbound. If you are asking whether ezinearticles could get a lot of traffic while harboring spun articles, I would say nobody knows. it quite possible that many articles on ezine are spun, as long as the articles have been worked on afterwords to be quality. Although ezine is respected as one of the top directories, there is simply no way to knowing if an article there has been spun or not.
                      Sorry I'm just not understanding your comment so I'm shotgunning answers.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

                        Unfortunately, your answer is out of the scope the question asked.
                        "Fortunately", I assure you, not "unfortunately".

                        That happens sometimes, in forums, especially when questions themselves rest on invalid, mistaken assumptions: sometimes you get lucky and someone chooses to transcend the question in order to mention and explain that.

                        Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

                        You are welcome to try again under the scope of what is being asked.
                        You're too kind ... but I'm entirely happy with my original answer, thanks. It was one of those issues understanding which, for me as for so many others, made the difference between not earning a living and earning a living.
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                        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                          Hi hybrid43,

                          If I'm not mistaken, that's a screen shot of ezinearticles.com stats. They seem to be doing well, which isn't really surprising.
                          You might want to take a second look.

                          there is simply no way to knowing if an article there has been spun or not.
                          Actually, there's an easy way that's probably right in front of your nose, as long as the article has not been too deeply spun (probably 90%+ of cases.)

                          What some others aren't factoring into the spinning vs non spinning arguments here (which are a regular occurrence) are long term vs short term advantages. I'm not interested in taking sides, but if you present an argument that appears to omit the obvious angle that what you are doing is going directly up against Google, then whatever argument you present about something working today, the same argument may not stand up as well tomorrow, or the day after.
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                          • Profile picture of the author myob
                            Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

                            If you have to produce a large number of unique quality articles per day that exceeds your present abilities, how would you do it?

                            How many articles does it take to get the results you want?

                            Perhaps if that is unknown or exceeds your present abilities, you may need to adjust your marketing model.
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                      • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
                        hm...are we both looking at the same screenshot? lol...

                        Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

                        Good points. I thank you for your comment. Unfortunately, your answer is out of the scope the question asked. You are welcome to try again under the scope of what is being asked. It keeps everyone on topic, and limits going off track.

                        Thank you for your comment. I'm not quite sure what you are asking here. If I'm not mistaken, that's a screen shot of ezinearticles.com stats. They seem to be doing well, which isn't really surprising. It should be quite normal that ezine gets much traffic inbound and outbound. If you are asking whether ezinearticles could get a lot of traffic while harboring spun articles, I would say nobody knows. it quite possible that many articles on ezine are spun, as long as the articles have been worked on afterwords to be quality. Although ezine is respected as one of the top directories, there is simply no way to knowing if an article there has been spun or not.
                        Sorry I'm just not understanding your comment so I'm shotgunning answers.
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                        • Profile picture of the author hybrid43
                          Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

                          hm...are we both looking at the same screenshot? lol...
                          Oh, you were referring the drop in the "Daily Reach" declining around 46% compare to 3 months ago possibly(or probably) due to the "panda update". Haha, sorry. The graph was under the fold at the time I was looking at it and I missed it completely. You are right. My mistake.

                          I still think EzineArticles doing fine though. Yes, it did take a giant hit, no doubt. But it is still ranked 212 Globally. Also EzineArticle is still one of the most used and respected article directories out there. I'm sure as we speak hundreds(or thousands) of articles are being submitted to Ezine. Since "Bad" articles no longer deliver google traffic, the addition of new "Good" articles will again increase Ezine's daily reach. I won't be surprised if Ezinearticles is back to its former glory with in a year or so. This is just a thought. Ezine could crash and burn tomorrow. It is just a feeling.

                          Thank you for sharing.
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                          • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
                            No problem.

                            Based on that graph, I just contend that the significant drop was related to 1 part the bombardment of the platform with spun content, and #2: the site itself not have very high quality standards in place to safeguard it from. And, I'll throw in a #3: all the affiliates of spinning software, who make thousands a month, only to tell those who buy from them to hammer sites like Ezine Articles with their spun content....and, many times, they recommend "don't touch your OWN site with spun content".....to me, that just shows what little regard some give to the businesses of others (EZA IS a business owned by someone....)....and, like it or not, the 'businesses' of many others were directly impacted, with that significant drop, as well...

                            Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

                            Oh, you were referring the drop in the "Daily Reach" declining around 46% compare to 3 months ago possibly(or probably) due to the "panda update". Haha, sorry. The graph was under the fold at the time I was looking at it and I missed it completely. You are right. My mistake.

                            I still think EzineArticles doing fine though. Yes, it did take a giant hit, no doubt. But it is still ranked 212 Globally. Also EzineArticle is still one of the most used and respected article directories out there. I'm sure as we speak hundreds(or thousands) of articles are being submitted to Ezine. Since "Bad" articles no longer deliver google traffic, the addition of new "Good" articles will again increase Ezine's daily reach. I won't be surprised if Ezinearticles is back to its former glory with in a year or so. This is just a thought. Ezine could crash and burn tomorrow. It is just a feeling.

                            Thank you for sharing.
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              • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
                Originally Posted by myob View Post

                For under $50 a month for a domain, hosting, autoresponder, etc one can start out syndicating articles; driving traffic from high PR websites that are already ranked for targeted keywords. That is how I started and continue doing. For almost nothing, I am jerking the chains of the competition in virtually every hot market that I decide to break into. :p
                I have said it before, and I will say it again, your a genius. Have you considered creating a guide to syndication?

                Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    @ Kurt

    As a former spinner, I can safely say that unless you have your own blog network, spinning for back-links is a waste of time. In fact, I'd argue that relying on SEO for your income is a waste of time as well.

    Quality syndicated content for the win!

    Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      Quality syndicated content for the win!

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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Here's a view from the other side of the fence.

        For just under eight months, I allowed submissions from a spinning/mass submission service. I chose the one I did based on their promises of a) high quality spins of original articles and b) hand posting to relevant categories on my site.

        All I can say is 'thank the heavens I didn't go with their suggested auto-approval'...

        95%+ of all submissions were gibberish, about 4% were fair to mediocre and 1% were what I would call quality articles. As the months rolled by, the quality got worse and worse.

        As for 'posting to relevant categories', that was a joke from the start. How many of you would seriously consider 'health and fitness' as a relevant category for a superficial article on the history of toy trains?

        I killed the submissions when I finally got sick of wasting hours culling the crap, only to watch the traffic on that site keep going down. I culled the articles and killed the author profiles, and watched the traffic recover. When Panda hit, the site bounced for a few days, then levelled off at around 18% higher traffic with only about 10% of the previous content.

        It's tapered off some now because I've been too involved with another project to keep adding new content, but getting rid of the marginal stuff helped.

        With that little experiment in 'quantity over quality' in the books, I'm going back to my previous policy on spinning...

        If I can't tell an article submission has been spun, I don't care. If it's interesting, relevant, reads well and is factually accurate, I'm very likely to use it. Otherwise, don't waste your time or mine...
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  • Profile picture of the author gillw254
    In my opnion, Spin articles should submit to Blog networks where as unspun articles should submit to top article directories.. (Syndication)
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Harper
    Hmmmmm....

    Fill the internet up with quality content that provides value or junk it up with a bunch of useless, misspelled crap that wastes everyone's time?

    Tough one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wolfster
    In my experience, the key to successful spinning is quality writing and quality information.

    Most will not go to the trouble, but I tend to spend considerable time and effort making sure my spun articles read very well, and contain good information, and not always the exact same information.

    The problem with spinners is not that they can't be useful, but that most use them to produce crap. A spinner can be very helpful if you maintain an eye for quality and are willing to take the time to spin them right, and quality spun articles can be helpful with offsite SEO providing that they are not on some crap network, but on quality sites.

    This does, of course, increase the time and effort spent and cut down on the number of articles one can produce in a reasonable amount of time. Some might not call it spinning at all ... but I'm sure you get my drift.
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    I have been known to spin an article or two :-)

    Didn't expect that from someone always jumping on the quality wagon .. did you? Don't judge .. just yet.

    I set myself up pretty well as a content marketer. I have older blogs that are sitting number one on G for keywords that are bringing in over 4000 visitors a day as well as a combination of minor keywords that total over 12000 unique visitors a day. All traffic is organic or maybe I should say none of it is paid traffic.

    5 of the blogs I own either meet or exceed this criteria. Only one of those blogs is in the IM arena. The blog is not in my sig and it will never be for the fact .. I run all my older blogs under pen names and I use my real name here.

    Some time back I realized I needed to control as much of the promotional process as possible. This meant building my own blog network and up until I pissed the junk spinning crowd off and they hacked me .. I had a rather quick indexing article directory.

    This is how I ran my promotions

    One original article for a specific keyword on the blog.

    I would then manually rewrite that article and place it on my article directory which purposely had no ads or anything else that let the link juice wither. A series of links from this article pointed to my blog article that coincided with the same keyword.

    Another rewrite was constructed manually and placed as is, unspun, on all of the blogs in my network that was relevant to the keyword chosen. This usually came up to around 100 of the blogs. These all pointed to the main blog article.

    Now I take any of the rewrites and place them in my spinning software. This is where many who spin mess up. It takes me longer to make the original spin copy than it does to write and rewrite the first three originals.

    Contrary to popular belief .. there are actually readers at some of the 2500 directories I will be sending these spun versions to. I want these spun versions to be as high of quality as possible. A rule of thumb for me .. if the spun version is not something I would put on my own money blog .. it doesn't get syndicated.

    I only need 30 spins for my purpose of this actual leg of the promotion but normally will spin 100 so I have enough to make pdf, article to video, and other promotions that require content.

    I make sure my 30 spins have as unique as possible beginning and ending paragraphs. These are then placed in my syndication bot .. one article a day for 30 days .. sent out to 2500 directories.

    These links are not sent to my money blog but rather the main directory. This directory acts as a buffer. The directory article acts as a mega link that will carry more weight than all of the 2500 weaker links if sent to the money blog separately.

    An article directory can handle a lot of links coming to it at one time for the fact ... the directory owner has no way of making it's members not use various different backlinking methods .

    In other words, content based backlinks, comment links, or profile links, sent to the article directory, does not hurt the directory for the fact the owner had no control over the members. The money blog gets the power of the directory links without the worry of the lesser links dying, being deindexed, or any other slap from G.


    In 30 days ... 75,000 backlinks (in theory) sent to a directory that passes all that juice to the money blog.

    The deal is .. The money blog article is original .. the main article directory article is original .. the first syndication article is original .. the spun articles are very legible and not something I would be embarrassed for someone to read.

    There is a place for spinning if done properly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robbie B
    I would go with option 2. That's coz I'm pretty selfish with my articles. I want them to make me money. Not get 30% of the traffic from one listing and the rest making revenue for sites like EZA. So I prefer to do the spin when it comes to marketing.

    I would manually spin though, so it's not garbage and then mass distribute them. Not only for the backlinks but by manually spinning, you control what your readers see. Regardless which version they land on.

    When I used to be involved in marketing before going into writing I would do the spins, but 1 or 2 paragraphs would have different topics discussed. So if it was a tips article then for 3 tips I would include about 15 tips just to be sure that the information would be different for as many articles going out.

    That's just my opinion though. I've never been a huge fan of EZA or giving exclusive rights to an article directory. Think Buzzle was another one I stopped using for that reason a while back.

    Robbie
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Robbie B View Post

      I've never been a huge fan of EZA or giving exclusive rights to an article directory.
      I completely agree with you about the rights matter.

      To express it very politely, it's difficult indeed to envisage anything gained at all by giving any unique content - and specifically any initial indexation-rights - to an article directory!

      I have over 1,350 articles on EZA, and have done very well out of people syndicating them from EZA, but all of them were first published and indexed on my own sites.

      Originally Posted by Robbie B View Post

      Think Buzzle was another one I stopped using for that reason a while back.
      As many did. And now, Buzzle accepts no external links at all, not even in resource-boxes. So that's the end of them, for article marketers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Casper C
    I think that spinning articles over and over is not really necessary. For them to be spun and remain readable, they need to be hand-spun (retyped) which takes time, or money if you want a writer to do it for you. Is it worth it for 1 or 2 backlinks per spin?

    You could instead commit that time to gaining much quicker backlinks, and more importantly, fresh content. 100 unique articles is better than 10 unique articles with 10 spins each, in my opinion.

    If I were you I'd focus on creating unique content, and instead of spinning any of it, use that time to just keep creating new content and working on your brand. You can then use social media to promote yourself, as well as SEO.

    I find that a lot of article marketers are all about a systematic approach. If you focus more on the value you're offering in your unique content, you're going to end up being a lot more successful.

    Some things I'd recommend doing instead of spinning articles:

    * Guest blogging
    * Write further unique content for your site/blog
    * Submit your post links through social media and bookmarking sites
    * Comment on relevant posts on other blogs
    * Create video versions of your existing articles and submit them to top video sharing sites (youtube, metacafe, vimeo, etc - doesn't need to be 'spun'!)

    Best of luck my friend.
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    • Profile picture of the author ryanjm
      Originally Posted by myob View Post

      Matt, I know your service is perhaps effective - by massive and sheer brute force. But your methods are far beyond the ability and resources of average folks. :rolleyes:
      You can do what he does on a much smaller scale and have success with lots of keywords. You can also join co-ops which allow you to tap into even more powerful networks of sites. Definitely not beyond the average marketer's reach if he wants to do this for a living.
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      @ Kurt

      As a former spinner, I can safely say that unless you have your own blog network, spinning for back-links is a waste of time. In fact, I'd argue that relying on SEO for your income is a waste of time as well.

      Quality syndicated content for the win!

      Chris
      lololol. I hope you don't tell that to all of the companies paying SEO experts millions of dollars. I'm assuming you mean just having a few sites making affiliate earnings due to rankings? If so, I agree. If you're talking about SEO in general, I wholeheartedly disagree.

      Anyway, it's pretty clear that there is a 'crew' of article syndicators here that runs the show and isn't aware of what's possible on the other side of the fence, but for those keeping score at home just know it's possible to do it either way. And I like my way quite a bit, as does my bank account.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
        Originally Posted by ryanjm View Post

        lololol. I hope you don't tell that to all of the companies paying SEO experts millions of dollars. I'm assuming you mean just having a few sites making affiliate earnings due to rankings? If so, I agree. If you're talking about SEO in general, I wholeheartedly disagree.
        Tell that to JC Penney and other companies exposed by the media for attempting to manipulate their Google rankings who have been effectively removed from the serps. As well as small guys who have been de-indexed by Google for similar shenanigans.

        Anyway, it's pretty clear that there is a 'crew' of article syndicators here that runs the show and isn't aware of what's possible on the other side of the fence, but for those keeping score at home just know it's possible to do it either way. And I like my way quite a bit, as does my bank account.
        Too bad bank accounts can't buy brains, let alone intelligence.

        Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author hybrid43
      Wow, thank you for the overwhelming replies, tips and guidance.
      It seems like I caused quite a debate due to not being specific when I started the thread. Thanks to you, I have studied more and starting to understand a few intricate points in your posts.

      It seems that there is a blending of the concepts "spinning" and "rewrite". Without question, "Freshly Spun Articles"(what a software spits out as is) tend to be low quality and hard to read. Personally, it was never my intention to use "Freshly Spun Articles" as is. I really don't think anyone can use those much longer. Since google are using massive resources to improve its search rankings for relevant content, "Freshly Spun Articles" should count less and less. Also I would like my articles to provide both backlinks and traffic. I don't think one can expect much traffic from "Freshly Spun Articles".

      From what I can tell, many people, who were kind enough to post on this thread, are using spinning software as "rewriting" tools. Basically creating multiple articles that mean the same thing but sound different. Of course, how unique the articles are from each other would depend on the work one puts in and preference. As long as they are of equal quality with the original article, I would probably use them.

      Another point of debate is who's doing the Syndication. All agree that syndication is a wonderful thing. Syndication by a reputable directory is considered the best. Some submit the already posted original article from their money blog/site to reputable directories also. Some submit
      good quality rewrites instead.(depending on one's standing on duplicate content) But that's not enough to get first page/good ranking.(depending on the competition) And this is where the opinions split.
      One side prefers to create whole new unique articles of different topics and repeat the process. The other side prefers to rewrite multiple readable versions of good quality(using spinners as an aid), and submit those to a large number of less reputable directories. I'm not quite sure which way is better but it is good to learn that there are different ways to doing things.

      Here is where skill level and sets come into play. Many marketers have the ability to pump out multiple unique articles in a day. Many think that rewriting spun articles into good readable articles take too much time, and rather write a whole new articles instead. Some excel at rewriting spun articles and prefer to do so. Original, Rewritten, or Spun, as long as it is a unique article and of good quality. I'll probably use it.

      That's I learned so far. Also, I'll read the threads you suggested and continue to understand more.

      Thank you
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

        All agree that syndication is a wonderful thing.
        All apart from a small minority with their own vested commercial interests in trying to maintain that it's a terrible thing, yes.

        Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

        Syndication by a reputable directory is considered the best.
        No - it really isn't at all: not by many people who are making a living through syndication of their articles. That's how some people who use spinning and mass-submission software envisage syndication, and they're missing the point.

        It's considered a small and comparatively unimportant part of article syndication, albeit one through which quite a bit of money can be earned and one which can help to build up a network of contacts, and is therefore of value toward building one's business in the longer term ... but by no stretch of the imagination would it be considered "the best" by anyone with any real experience of it.

        Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

        Some submit the already posted original article from their money blog/site to reputable directories also. Some submit
        good quality rewrites instead.(depending on one's standing on duplicate content) But that's not enough to get first page/good ranking.(depending on the competition) And this is where the opinions split.
        Unfortunately not.

        Opinions split at a stage far "earlier" than that.

        This assessment of article marketing presupposes that the mainstay of the subject relates to "how to use article directories".

        It just isn't possible, given that grotesquely inaccurate starting-point, to understand, on a conceptual level, what article marketing is really about at all.

        Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

        I'm not quite sure which way is better
        With respect, and with no impoliteness intended, you won't be able to start to discover that without first significantly re-appraising your starting point, and giving up the enormously limited article-directory-oriented perception of article marketing which you have at the moment. Take a step back and try to see the bigger picture. Ask yourself what an article directory really is, and why they exist at all.

        Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

        Many marketers have the ability to pump out multiple unique articles in a day. Many think that rewriting spun articles into good readable articles take too much time, and rather write a whole new articles instead. Some excel at rewriting spun articles and prefer to do so. Original, Rewritten, or Spun, as long as it is a unique article and of good quality. I'll probably use it.

        That's I learned so far.
        I'm really sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but some of what you learned, although it may strictly speaking be correct, is at best only very tangentially relevant to what you were actually trying to learn.

        Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

        I'll read the threads you suggested and continue to understand more.
        This may help a great deal. I wish you good luck.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          All apart from a small minority with their own vested commercial interests in trying to maintain that it's a terrible thing, yes.
          Earlier on this thread I posted links to just 3 threads that have a wider diversity of people commenting than on your threads. And there's plenty more threads like those. Not to mention, there's are plenty of other forums that have different opinions that those you share.

          Funny, I didn't notice many with links to spinners in their sigs, as you claim. Comments like this are borderline libelous at most and illogical (ad hominem) at the least.

          Unlike Alexa, I suggested a mixture of doing BOTH, syndicate and get links. The best strategy isn't either/or, it's BOTH.

          I also suggested when submitting articles you submit BOTH spun and unspun articles. I said this so people can learn from their own experiences and not have to rely on text books or online information.

          People need to remember that Alexa has already stated that she isn't an SEO expert and she hasn't spun articles. She simply relies on hearsay, rather than actual experience.
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    • Profile picture of the author FtlLuke
      Originally Posted by Casper C View Post

      100 unique articles is better than 10 unique articles with 10 spins each, in my opinion.
      I would have to agree with this comment. Still, I do spin from time to time but it is an arduous manual process if you wish to produce quality articles. In many cases, you spend more time spinning than it would take to write new quality content.

      There are great arguments on both sides within the thread and several points worth taking to heart. Just keep in mind, this is only one of many tools in your toolbox.
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  • Profile picture of the author QuelThalas
    SEO need fresh content.absouloutly if you want to use web2.0 to blast your article,mybe you have to spin the article
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  • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
    One of the major problems with people's concept of spun articles is the fact that they believe that all seeds spit out gibberish.

    This is undoubtedly true for anyone here who has tried it here, barring only a few with enough experience.

    What many do not realize is that they read spun articles all of the time in all article directories, even EZA, but their editors don't even know any better and don't even pick up on the fact that they are spun.

    All editors "say" they do not allow spins, but in reality, they only throw out the obvious ones that they "pick up on".

    For most Warriors, spinning simply will not work. If you have to ask "will it work", then it will not for you.

    If that is the case, then don't waste your time.

    For those who know how to do it properly, they do not waste time with article directories.

    All top seeds submit to private networks and they sell their services for thousands per month per client.
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      Originally Posted by thebitbotdotcom View Post

      One of the major problems with people's concept of spun articles is the fact that they believe that all seeds spit out gibberish.

      This is undoubtedly true for anyone here who has tried it here, barring only a few with enough experience.

      What many do not realize is that they read spun articles all of the time in all article directories, even EZA, but their editors don't even know any better and don't even pick up on the fact that they are spun.

      All editors "say" they do not allow spins, but in reality, they only throw out the obvious ones that they "pick up on".

      For most Warriors, spinning simply will not work. If you have to ask "will it work", then it will not for you.

      If that is the case, then don't waste your time.

      For those who know how to do it properly, they do not waste time with article directories.

      All top seeds submit to private networks and they sell their services for thousands per month per client.
      So, roughly how long would/should it take for one to write a spun article "properly"?
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        [DELETED]
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          That's simply untruthful, Kurt.

          You've brought the conversation down to a whole new level. Do you really feel you have no alternative, in these discussions, than to try to belittle and denigrate me, and to give a misleading account of my experience? Well, I guess that speaks for itself.


          .
          Ironic. You have made plenty of snide comments saying that people that disagree with your do so only because they have financial interest such as having links to spinners in their sigs. Do you really need to "poison the well" over and over and belittle others' comments without truly knowing their motivation?

          And if you spun, then I was wrong and apologize for that.

          However, you have stated you aren't an SEO expert and that you rely on text books for your SEO info, and you've also said you don't build links to your submitted articles, which I believe was a flaw in your strategy.
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            And if you spun, then I was wrong and apologize for that.
            I had long experience of spinning, Kurt. I've described it here extensively. It matches the experiences of so many others who post on this subject.

            Talking of irony, my p.m. inbox suggests (a little amusingly, to me, I confess) that many others find it deeply ironic that whereas most of the article syndicators here, who typically share their successful experiences without selling or promoting anything at all, have taken up article syndication only because of all our collective failures with spinning and automated submission, you habitually "warn" people that we're speaking about something of which we have no experience.

            Given how quick (albeit totally inaccurate) you are to accuse us of that, I'd love to hear all about your experience with article syndication. You see the irony, I'm sure? It's the side of the discussion with experience of only one which is accusing those with experience of both of having experience with only one!

            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            However, you have stated you aren't an SEO expert and that you rely on text books for your SEO info
            Actually you're misquoting me yet again, there: I explained above, in some detail, that far from "relying" on textbooks for my SEO info, I worked it all out from practical experience, myself, first, and was subsequently pleased and relieved to find that all the textbook authors actually agreed with what I'd already "learned the hard way".

            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            and you've also said you don't build links to your submitted articles, which I believe was a flaw in your strategy.
            Actually you're misquoting me yet again, there: I've said that I don't do that now. It was a mistake I made for many months, earlier on, before I understood the perils and disadvantages of building backlinks to other people's sites rather than to my own. I've commented on this extensively in other threads here, Kurt.

            I'm not complaining about your not having read them, only about your continually misquoting me, and belittling and denigrating my experience.

            I'm 21 years old and work part-time. Last month I earned over $17,500 from article marketing. I've been "thanked" for what I share here over 6,000 times. Unlike you, I'm not selling or promoting my wares here. However uncomfortable or distressing all that is for you to acknowledge, it remains true and I'll thank you not to belittle me or to make untruthful allegations about me, please. I don't do that to you, and I do unashamedly expect and request the same in return. :rolleyes:

            I accept your apology offered above.

            Please don't do it again. It's unprofessional, and it doesn't actually help you either (and exactly the opposite, in fact, if you only knew it: understandably, it simply alienates large numbers of people).

            Let's just try to behave professionally, here, shall we? Thank you.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


              I'm 21 years old and work part-time. Last month I earned over $17k from article marketing. I've been "thanked" for what I share here over 10,000 times. Unlike you, I'm not selling or promoting my wares here. However uncomfortable or distressing all that is for you to acknowledge, it remains true and I'll thank you not to belittle me or to make untruthful allegations about me, please. I don't do that to you, and I expect and request the same in return. :rolleyes:

              I accept your apology offered above. Please don't do it again. It's unprofessional, and it doesn't actually help you either (and exactly the opposite, in fact, if you only knew it).

              Thank you.
              Here you go again. Another ad hominem logical fallacy, attacking my credibility based on what I sell. Maybe I sell what I believe in? I have made lots of OTHER people lots and lots of money over the years.

              And you're making claims that are untrue in an attempt to discredit me. I openly disclose any financial connections I have. As a matter of fact, I told you in a recent post what my financial interests were...I even forgot one and went back and updated my comments. Remember?

              In a recent WSO, I told people in the WSO itself that I included affiliate links. I've never seen anyone else state there's affiliate links in the report, athough it may have happened. And in the report itself, I identified all affiliate links with an *.

              I suggest you stop attacking people because of your percieved bias, it's illogical and unprofessional.

              Please read this:
              Fallacy: Ad Hominem
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              • Profile picture of the author myob
                Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

                I have said it before, and I will say it again, your a genius. Have you considered creating a guide to syndication?

                Chris
                All I do is follow the geniuses who have preceded me. The genius of article syndication is nearly 300 years old in the US, beginning perhaps with Benjamin Franklin. Article spinning is just the newborn ******* of lazy writers, IMHO of course. I think Alexa Smith has been doing an excellent job in explaining syndication quite well; just search her posts. Also an excellent ebook I have often recommended is "Turning Words Into Traffic" by Jim Edwards. It's available on Clickbank and Amazon.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

        So, roughly how long would/should it take for one to write a spun article "properly"?
        I don't use the typical method. In my case, it would take as long as it takes to write 12-15 articles, each with about 4 or 5 paragraphs of info that can stand on their own. Once that's done, about another 3-5 hours.

        Here's what I do...I'll create the articles so each paragraph is a tip or chunk of info that is independent. This will give me something like 50-75 "tips" or "chunks" as I call them. Let's call all of them something like:

        "75 Things You Should Know About Your Dog".

        Now I mix and match the paragraphs into different articles. I generally create about 10X as many articles as I have chunks. If I have 75 chunks, I'll make about 750 articles.

        I also do some light "regular" spinning of each chunk, focusing on secondary keywords, which are generally nouns, which makes the spinning easier and the output very readable.

        For example, I may spin something like this:
        When training a big dog such as a great dane|rottweiler|doberman|mastiff

        Most people spin synonyms, which are easy to detect. However, spinning nouns is a different story and Google treats them differently.

        Each article will contain anywhere from 3-8 or so chunks. I do this so the size of the articles varies, which is far different than normal spinning strategies. I also use the chunks in different orders, as well as delete and add a sentence or two to some chunks. This helps break up n-grams and text vectors, which Google uses to determine doop content.

        Because of this style, I can cross-link the articles, for both SEO and real people benefits.

        I can link "5 Things You Should Know About Your Dog" to"8 Other Things You Should Know About Your Dog" with pretty good confidence that there will be new tips and new REAL info in each article.

        IMO, you never want to link two doop pages together. In this example, I have 750 articles, with most about 80% unique from any other single article I may link to. And by "unique", I mean as in totally different info, not just different words.

        I put these articles everywhere that will accept content and cross-link them. Using this style means I can set up mini-nets without common footprints for linking purposes and not have to worry about sending humans or Google to another article that has the same info and only changed some words.
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  • Profile picture of the author RobCopywriter
    Does this mean that backlinking does not increase your search ranking? Because that is what I was planning to do to get my site ranked higher.. Please can someone confirm this?!
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  • Profile picture of the author Susovan
    For submission to article directories you should not ideally spin and use original articles. But in case of submission to social bookmarking sites it is okay to submit spun off articles. But always prefer original work to spun off staff.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ryan Dodson
      Originally Posted by Susovan View Post

      For submission to article directories you should not ideally spin and use original articles. But in case of submission to social bookmarking sites it is okay to submit spun off articles. But always prefer original work to spun off staff.
      Agreed. I'd MUCH rather represent my website/company with well-written, original content that'll intrigue my readers to learn more and click-through using the resource box...As opposed to just "getting it out there", not giving a hoot about whether the content is good or not.

      Quality > Quantity. Every single time.
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  • Profile picture of the author NoBSGuy
    I still like option 2. There`s a huge difference if someone just clicks on autospin or manually creates 100s of human readable spun articles with backlinks pointing to a money site or social site. At least 70% uniqueness should be enough to get most of the spun articles indexed and obtain link juice from them. The key here is to make the spun versions as readable as possible, just like the main article.
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    • Profile picture of the author hybrid43
      It is exciting to learn from so many people!
      Unfortunately, there were some posts which has gone off topic to a personal level. Although, I thank those authors for their participation and I would gently like to nudge the posts back on topic.

      I guess the question is Unique High Quality Articles and how to produce them in quantity. Most people can agree that the more Unique High Quality Articles you can create the more options you have to market a blog,site,product,service, or offer. Although it is still up for debate if spinners are a efficient tool to produce/rewrite Unique High Quality Articles(Time and skill required to spin and modify a Unique High Quality Article vs Time and skill required to craft a whole new Unique High Quality Article), the key question is still how to create more Unique High Quality Articles faster. Any ideas?

      *In the interest of keeping the thread on track, please post under the assumption that this can be done.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

    Hi, All.
    I'm gearing up to start my article marketing. From all of my research, I learned that article marketing falls into two categories.

    1. Post good articles on your own site then create backlinks to them via social media and such.
    2. Spin Articles into multiple versions and post it in many article directories as you can, creating backlinks to your landing page.

    While most are in agreement that method 1 still works, there is some debate whether or not method 2 still works(create backlinks that help search ranking), or if it ever worked at all. Some even say it hurts ranking.

    What is your experience ?
    number 1 is the way to go to build a business.

    #2 probably still works to some degree, but google and others will keep working on that to the disappointment of many "professional" internet marketers who spam content. hope that was sarcastic enough to make the point that i hate spam in any form...and article spinning is spamming the web.
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  • Profile picture of the author C A Perez
    IMHO, Back to topic there is no substitute for option No1. Fresh quality content will never bite you on the backside.

    Option No.2 is practical and viable assuming you have control of the input and the output, i.e., no robotic generation of content.

    When I do spin an article, I rewrite each paragraph sentence by sentence. I make sure I have at least five paragraphs. I make at least two new sentences making a total of three versions, the original plus two new ones.

    With three versions of five paragraphs you have 243 variations to choose from. Many of those will be 70% or better unique.

    Carlos



    Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

    Hi, All.
    I'm gearing up to start my article marketing. From all of my research, I learned that article marketing falls into two categories.

    1. Post good articles on your own site then create backlinks to them via social media and such.
    2. Spin Articles into multiple versions and post it in many article directories as you can, creating backlinks to your landing page.

    While most are in agreement that method 1 still works, there is some debate whether or not method 2 still works(create backlinks that help search ranking), or if it ever worked at all. Some even say it hurts ranking.

    What is your experience ?
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by C A Perez View Post


      With three versions of five paragraphs you have 243 variations to choose from. Many of those will be 70% or better unique.

      Carlos
      and unfortunately you personally would probably not think many if any of those 243 spun articles were of value to you had you stumbled upon one while searching the internet for some answer to a problem you personally had.

      that is the difference in good solid content and "tricky" marketing tactics that pollute the web with spam...article content spam.
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      • Profile picture of the author C A Perez
        Originally Posted by owslaw123 View Post

        and unfortunately you personally would probably not think many if any of those 243 spun articles were of value to you had you stumbled upon one while searching the internet for some answer to a problem you personally had.

        that is the difference in good solid content and "tricky" marketing tactics that pollute the web with spam...article content spam.

        and I wonder if you have written more than one article in any given subject/topic. If you have then you rewritten/spun your original article.

        Any article I write is 8 to 12 paragraphs long. If I do decide to "spin" it, I rewrite two versions of every sentence in every paragraph. I, therefore, have three original articles with 8-10 paragraphs each that have been completely rewritten. I also vary the number of sentences in the paragraphs and the sentence length.

        Consequently, I potentially have a minimum of 6561 to 531441 variations of those three articles. Before any of those articles are released to the public, by whatever means, they are run through DupePro or Copyscape for a uniqueness test. Many exceed 90%, although many think 70% is good, uniqueness.

        I challenge anyone to tell which of any of those article were the original articles.

        As for content, I would most certainly expect that my original content is worthy of value and if it is not then I would not have written it in the first place nor would have I signed my name to it and anyone stumbling upon a "spun" version would benefit from the contents.

        You are confusing valid marketing tactics, repetitious quality content exposure, with article content spam which is gibberish content, often nonsensical written by a robot.

        However, I respect your desire to publish nothing but "original" content. Go for it!
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        • Profile picture of the author David Keith
          Originally Posted by C A Perez View Post

          and I wonder if you have written more than one article in any given subject/topic. If you have then you rewritten/spun your original article.

          Any article I write is 8 to 12 paragraphs long. If I do decide to "spin" it, I rewrite two versions of every sentence in every paragraph. I, therefore, have three original articles with 8-10 paragraphs each that have been completely rewritten. I also vary the number of sentences in the paragraphs and the sentence length.

          Consequently, I potentially have a minimum of 6561 to 531441 variations of those three articles. Before any of those articles are released to the public, by whatever means, they are run through DupePro or Copyscape for a uniqueness test. Many exceed 90%, although many think 70% is good, uniqueness.

          I challenge anyone to tell which of any of those article were the original articles.

          As for content, I would most certainly expect that my original content is worthy of value and if it is not then I would not have written it in the first place nor would have I signed my name to it and anyone stumbling upon a "spun" version would benefit from the contents.

          You are confusing valid marketing tactics, repetitious quality content exposure, with article content spam which is gibberish content, often nonsensical written by a robot.

          However, I respect your desire to publish nothing but "original" content. Go for it!
          people who spin content do not do so to add value to the end users experience on the internet. they do so to trick the search engines.... true or false?

          and when a person writes a 2nd, 3rd, or more articles on a topic there is at the very least another angle on the same topic.

          with spun articles that is not the case. things are basically just moved around a bit.
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  • Profile picture of the author JustFelix
    Keep spinning for the best result.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by JustFelix View Post

      Keep spinning for the best result.
      it will work now, but you better be working on your next tactic now.

      i promise you, article spinning will be a distant memory of a way to make money online 1 year from now. the panda update was just the first of many updates to come that are going to make this tactic old news.

      i will leave this post for the Pro spinners now as it seems to be getting a bit more heated.

      good luck to all, just realize who the content is being created for... end users or google.
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  • Profile picture of the author Peter Gehr
    Unique content is king in my book.

    From my experience, the amount of time you spend editing the gibberish generated from an article spinner, it takes almost the same amount of time for me to write a new and unique article.

    There's something to be said about the human touch and personality of unique content.

    In the long run, I feel it's best to stay away from robotic content that comes from article spinners.

    To spin or not to spin can be quite subjective, (as you can see from the posts in this thread) but my preferences pull me towards the camp of the non-spinners.
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Personally it would be a good idea to spin articles, especially manually, always good to have that option to test unspinned and spinned to see which does better
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  • Profile picture of the author ricoramiro
    Submitting to article directories is still a good idea but only submit a few to each directory because after a few you lose any link juice.

    So submit to as many directories as you can. People will pick up your articles if they're good and you'll get the backlinks from them as well.

    I have a lot of articles out there and people are linking to my site that I don't even know and every day I find new backlinks. It helps!

    If you have eBooks to sell use the directory ideamarketers.com - they let you post your eBooks for free and the articles you submit there are posted immediately. They also have a lot of link juice with Bing.
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  • Profile picture of the author pethanks008
    It is still best to have original articles. Google is very strict now. You might hurt your site if you don't have original content.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    I still shreak when I see these threads.

    Google has always wanted good content not jibberish written by your 5 year old cousin.

    There you go, answered your question in one sentence.
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  • Profile picture of the author harrietfredge
    The first one mentioned is better and has proven to be useful to get a good ranking however i am not sure about the effectiveness of the second one that you mentioned.
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    • Profile picture of the author hybrid43
      I think most of the people posting in this thread can agree that unique original content is the best. (for SEO, the readers, Google and so on) Of course, one can produce quality content using spinners(if it is used for the purpose of rewriting), as long as attention and time is put into make it so. We also have to keep in mind that quality, it seems, is a highly subjective concept. I have read some articles which I found to be not so helpful on a website that produces a lot of money per month, and also the reverse. :p

      Many Internet Marketers are excellent and speedy writers who can produce 4-5 unique quality articles a day. Others are faster and better at rewriting articles. Some(including newbies like myself) take a long time writing just article article.
      (two finger typing is hard. )

      So here is the question. If you have to produce a large number of unique quality articles per day that exceeds your present abilities, how would you do it? Also, under the assumption that you can have writers block or run out of things to address on the subject you are passionate about, how will you keep your articles fresh without repeating your previous articles?
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

        If you have to produce a large number of unique quality articles per day that exceeds your present abilities, how would you do it?
        By re-educating myself about the "number of articles needed".

        That's not what article marketing's about, at all.

        If I "had to produce" a large number of articles per day, I'd already have gone wrong at the higher and more important level of understanding what I'm doing and how article marketing works, and what it's all about. Once I was in a position where I had to start thinking about the "number of articles per day", and was looking at my article marketing from a fundamentally quantitative perspective, it wouldn't very much matter what my answers were, because I'd be asking myself the wrong question (and back to "not really making a living from it", let alone "building up a real business from it").
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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

          If you have to produce a large number of unique quality articles per day that exceeds your present abilities, how would you do it?
          I like to keep things simple. Answering better questions can mean the difference in thousands of dollars per article. For example, a simple question to ask before beginning an article is "What information is my target market searching for?".

          As mentioned repeatedly many many times here and in other threads; it really doesn't take many articles at all to whip the competition when quality questions are answered with quality writing and leveraged over targeted and context-relevant outlets.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
    Originally Posted by hybrid43 View Post

    To Spin or Not to Spin Articles.

    Eye wood s hay dat hit defe nut lee dee pens hon watt u argh tr eye in two du.
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  • Profile picture of the author JoeJ
    I'm sure you meant no offence. RV tends to be a bit touchy from the posts I have read...
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post

      I'm sure you meant no offence. RV tends to be a bit touchy from the posts I have read...
      Oh I do apologise Joe. :rolleyes:

      Steadyon, I just felt it was a little unfair seeing as the chap in question is blind and writes very well under the circumstances.

      As Joe's kindly pointed out though, I must have just been being a bit touchy.
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      • Profile picture of the author JoeJ
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        Oh I do apologise Joe. :rolleyes:

        Steadyon, I just felt it was a little unfair seeing as the chap in question is blind and writes very well under the circumstances.

        As Joe's kindly pointed out though, I must have just been being a bit touchy.

        It happens to the best of us
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Richard, surely you're not the only one who missed the punch lines. We must be getting old and crotchety.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by myob View Post

          Richard, surely you're not the only one who missed the punch lines. We must be getting old and crotchety.
          Yeah, that joke just went right over my head...don't know what's wrong with me.
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  • Profile picture of the author joshcoffy
    So who else thinks this gets repetitive? lol
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    • Profile picture of the author hybrid43
      Originally Posted by joshcoffy View Post

      So who else thinks this gets repetitive? lol
      This is true. Yet the fascination, misunderstandings, clarification, and personal bantering continues.

      I suppose as I am to blame. As long as there are newbies asking questions yet to be understood by them, there will always be repeated discussions of the few basic concepts. Sorry this thread wasn't informative. I too wish this thread contained less personal jabs between authors. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can.

      Thank you for your comment.
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  • Profile picture of the author PowerGTD
    Spinning articles worked great in 2006, but Google has long since caught on. 99% of the directories that accept spun content are buried so deep in the rankings now (if they're even still indexed at all) that their backlinks are completely worthless. And you certainly aren't going to get any direct traffic from these submissions.

    Post unique articles on your own site or blog, then post other unique articles to the reputable directories like EZA and GoArticles which link back to your original articles. That is how you get traffic and sales from article marketing.

    It sucks, but shortcuts are quickly becoming a thing of the past in this business.
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  • Profile picture of the author xavierfok
    so far i have only been doing option 1 for about 2 months, and it got me ranked on #1 for my keyword "poker 32x"

    been reading up on fellow warriors advice and it seems like the traffic we get may not be of good quality and may not be long term. How about submitting articles to document sharing sites and article submission sites that are well known like E-zine and articlebase?

    do they give good traffic? and is the traffic going to be long term? or are the articles simply going to not show after some time? perhaps writing consistently can help to build up the rank and traffic?

    i also build backlinks with spun articles and i think its doing fine so far. The rank seems to improve without me doing anything.

    Thanks in advance for fellow warriors who could help out
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