This business is so hard!

28 replies
OK I love working at home at my own pace.

The money is really good in terms of bang-for-buck.

But for crying out loud I don't think I can deal with another serial refunder threatening me because I'm not givining in to him stealing my products or Trying to keep on the good side of the search engines even though I'm just building my sites for the end user experience.

(to name a few things gone wrong today)

It's so fricking hard!!

I hate to admit it but having a boss "bossing" me around wasn't so bad. Atleast I didn't have to think for myself or for the most part make make-or-BUST decisions.

Ever feel like this? What got you through?

Seriously the new cars and wealth isn't enough to keep me going through this stress.

I'd rather be happy on minimum wage lol.

Surely your online business isn't all flowers and perfume right? (waits for the perfume niche jokes)

Louis
#business #hard
  • Profile picture of the author David_Thompson
    Dude it's the same with working for someone else
    it definitely not a walk in the park...

    Both have the good and bad you just have to figure
    out which one you would like to deal with...LOL

    --David
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  • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
    What do you mean by serial refunder? How many products has he bought from you and wanted to return?
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    "One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor
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    "I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."
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    • Profile picture of the author jhongren
      Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer View Post

      What do you mean by serial refunder? How many products has he bought from you and wanted to return?
      Hi,

      I heard a story from a friend, Andrew.

      He had a Clickbank refund request with
      a reason

      "I am requesting a refund because
      the videos do not work."

      But the thing is that Andrew's
      product has no video.

      Guess this refunder is always using the
      same reason to ask for refund.

      John
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      • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
        Hey John,

        I see what you mean.

        And the way I see it is... the front end product only weeds out the serious from the curious.

        I always start with the backend first when I develop a business plan/model.

        Thanks for the reply.
        Signature

        "One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor
        "


        "I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."
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        • Profile picture of the author jhongren
          Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer View Post

          Hey John,

          I see what you mean.

          And the way I see it is... the front end product only weeds out the serious from the curious.

          I always start with the backend first when I develop a business plan/model.

          Thanks for the reply.
          Hi MaskedMarketer,

          You are welcome!

          Planning with the end in mind...

          I like this model...

          I do that too.

          The OTO is in fact my actual
          product and the front end
          product is designed to bring
          in serious buyers.

          Dealing with refunds and
          managing customers who are
          not serious may in the end
          sap more of your energy, time
          and money.

          John
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        • Profile picture of the author ShayB
          Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer View Post

          Hey John,

          I see what you mean.

          And the way I see it is... the front end product only weeds out the serious from the curious.

          I always start with the backend first when I develop a business plan/model.

          Thanks for the reply.
          Can you elaborate on what you mean by starting with the backend first?
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          • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
            Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

            Can you elaborate on what you mean by starting with the backend first?
            The backend is normally where you sell more expensive, high end, products.

            Lets say you want to sell information to the Direct Marketing, Advertising, Sales industry (horizontal niche). Since that industry is pretty big, lets just focus on copy writing (vertical niche) products.

            If you're selling information to copy writers, then Workshops, Coaching/Consulting, could be back end products. That workshop, can be broken into DVD's and sold for more money.

            You can have a membership site for a backend. You can have a "home study course" as a back end.

            A front end product would be a freebie, a cheap 7$ product, or maybe a 97$ product to suck them into the sales funnel. The cheaper product should be a broken down version of your bigger backend products.

            Napoleon Hill wrote the "16 Laws of Success" first. It may have been over 1,000 pages. And what he did was break that down into a smaller book called "Think and Grow Rich". Since his first masterpiece wasn't selling like he wanted to, he created a smaller product for people to consume and has turned out to be a hit, in the long run.

            Now, if you're selling copywriting products, you can easily sell other stuff to them on marketing, which is cross-selling, or maybe a OTO which is upselling. Or maybe you want to design there copy for them. Or possibly want to re-work there marketing plan (the top guys get royalties on new business).

            Think of the Sales Funnel where each time a customer gets deeper in the sales funnel, he/she is a more dedicated customer because they are buying more of your products at a higher price. These are the loyal, raving , fans that you now have. These are the people you want to really take care of, because they are loyal to you.

            Look at David DeAngelo's site (Eben pagans dating site). Right there is a good example of a carefully planned business (which resulted in massive success for him). He has a 20$ product (and probably a freebie or sample too). Then he has video courses. Then he has seminars, coaching, membership sites, the works.

            You can sell a 1k workshop... A 5k,10k, and people even sell over 30k workshops! Its really endless possibilities and only limited to your own imagination. You can do a free seminar, then close them on your front end product. Then when they go to the first workshop, you pitch them the big package.

            That's how some big info companies do it. The ones I worked with have 35k-50k coaching programs. Thats why communication is so important, as the pitchmen who do workshops are the ones who rake in big bucks. Its hard to sell a 35k package, when its not face to face.

            Don't think you can do your own workshop or sell it?

            The easiest way to start out is by getting some friends or people together and just give your presentation to them on camera, break into videos online, and you have your workshop DVD seminar.

            Since the real money is made on the back end, that's where its smart to start. If you start on the front end first, you could be potentially wasting your time, because if you don't have a backend in mind, you won't even know if its even possible to have a backend or what its worth to you.

            A sales funnel could look like this:

            Suspects----> Free information (valuable) ---> $7 product --> $47-$97 product --> membership site ----> Workshop DVD's ---> workshop ---> coaching/consulting <---- Loyal Fans

            By the time they reach the near of the of funnel, those are the people that will stick by you, because they like your work. It doesn't have to look like this, but wanted to give you more of a visual, of what it could look like.

            Just take a look around, as examples are everywhere.

            Hope this helps some
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            "One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor
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            "I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."
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            • Profile picture of the author Jim Hallmark
              The grass is always greener on the other side, but the water bill is higher.
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              "Thoughts become things... choose the good ones!" Mike Dooley
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    Don't know what payment processor you're using.
    But, I think it doesn't matter.
    I know with Clickbank you can report a "serial refunder". clickbank will block them from future purchases.
    I suspect that other payment processors are the same.

    LC
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanman
    It seems hard at first but when you gain expertise with time it gets easier.
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    ^^^Click The "UGLY BANNER" to "MAKE MONEY"^^^
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  • Profile picture of the author Lee McIntyre
    Hi Louis

    It IS hard but that's a good thing. If it were easy then everyone would be doing it and the rewards but be less.

    When I'm struggling I try and remember that if I'm not challenged, then I'm not growing. If it's too easy then you're not moving forward.

    The trick to find the right amount of challenge so that you're moving forward, but not too much challenge that you become overwhelmed and don't know where to turn.

    I hope this helps

    Lee McIntyre
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  • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
    If it was easy, you wouldn't get paid to do it :-)
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    "Knowledge is NOT power... ACTION on Knowledge is power"
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  • Profile picture of the author tomw
    Running any business is pretty challenging.

    However, one fundamental difference between a real business and a home based job is having others take care of all the crap as well as the menial or "unfun" tasks. If you can afford it, outsource your customer service. This should be your first "hiring" and to move to the next level, by freeing up your time to think and act more strategically, you should make it a priority to do this.

    Trust me (and everyone else that has already done it!) you'll never look back.

    Thomas
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Louis, I simply don't let that stuff bother me...one bit.

      People ask for a refund, I don't even argue. I just give it.

      They make a stink, I ignore them.

      I used to let that stuff get to me. Now, it's not even a minor annoyance.

      I concentrate on the positive side of the business.

      1. Being my own boss and making my own decisions.
      2. Working when I want.
      3. Answering to no one but me.
      4. Providing for my family while sitting in my bathrobe.

      I would rather be DEAD than have to go back to work for a boss.

      You have NO idea how good you really have it.

      Sit back and enjoy it!
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      Originally Posted by tomw View Post

      However, one fundamental difference between a real business and a home based job is having others take care of all the crap as well as the menial or "unfun" tasks. If you can afford it, outsource your customer service. This should be your first "hiring" and to move to the next level, by freeing up your time to think and act more strategically, you should make it a priority to do this.

      Trust me (and everyone else that has already done it!) you'll never look back.

      Thomas
      Do you use a VA for this?
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      • Profile picture of the author tomw
        Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

        Do you use a VA for this?
        LOL! No! I have a few companies.

        But yes, a VA would be a good first step in the right direction!

        Thomas
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        • Profile picture of the author ShayB
          Originally Posted by tomw View Post

          LOL! No! I have a few companies.

          But yes, a VA would be a good first step in the right direction!

          Thomas

          I guess I wasn't thinking on a large enough scale.
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          • Profile picture of the author tomw
            Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

            I guess I wasn't thinking on a large enough scale.
            Everyone has to start somewhere and as we *all* already know you have made a fantastic start. There is *absolutely nothing* wrong with your thinking. It shows that you are already in the mindset of reaching the next level. I have absolutely no doubt that you'll achieve this.



            Thomas
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    • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
      Best thing I ever did, and worth every penny

      Kim

      Originally Posted by tomw View Post

      However, one fundamental difference between a real business and a home based job is having others take care of all the crap as well as the menial or "unfun" tasks. If you can afford it, outsource your customer service. Thomas
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  • Profile picture of the author Hanuka
    Just outsource all the pesky problematic things of your biz.
    Go to eLance(.com) and start searching for workers(assuming that you
    have the mony to support them workers).

    Once you have people working for you, you'll have MUCH more free time, to
    the point, dare I say, that your business will run itself with very little
    intervention in your part. xD
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    Advertising is 85% confusion and 15% commission.. ROFL! xD

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  • Profile picture of the author Eric Stanley
    Originally Posted by Louis Raven View Post


    I hate to admit it but having a boss "bossing" me around wasn't so bad. At least I didn't have to think for myself or for the most part make make-or-BUST decisions.

    ...

    Seriously the new cars and wealth isn't enough to keep me going through this stress.

    I'd rather be happy on minimum wage lol.

    As I read this statement I cringed a little. This is truly what separates the self-starters and entrepreneurs from their counterparts. I will preface this by saying if you want to go back to a job working for someone, and don't want to deal with the stress or responsibility of making your own decisions, then by all means do it.

    Contrary to popular belief, or as so many marketers pushing product would have you to believe, IM isn't easy. IMO it shouldn't be the cars and wealth and jet setting lifestyle image that is your sole motivation. Your desire to be independent and build a sustainable, successful business should your motivation.

    As stated earlier, if you would be happier on minimum wage, then stop what you are doing right now and go pursue that plan of action. And trust me, companies salivate at the idea of keeping those wages as low as possible. This mindset of throwing your hands in the air when the going gets tough, even brutal, is the point in which 97% (or so) of people give up and give in. Those make or BUST decisions that you mention are the critical decisions that define our businesses and success in IM. They are an absolutely required part of this business, and not being able to make those decisions or stomach the consequences won't get you too far.

    There is a correlation between risk and reward (for the most part). Low risk - minimum wage job = low reward. "High" risk - IM career = Possible low reward / Possible high reward. Personally, I'll take the high risk road anyday as I would rather have tried and failed multiple times at the shot of success than to have never tried at all.

    To your success!

    Eric
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  • Profile picture of the author D.K. Magnus
    If you have a couple of hours free, I would be happy to tell you why working form home would be better than the job I have.
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  • Profile picture of the author PeterDudek
    Originally Posted by Louis Raven View Post

    But for crying out loud I don't think I can deal with another serial refunder threatening me because I'm not givining in to him stealing my products
    First of all...nice thread subject choice ;-). Sure to get our juices flowing!

    Second of all, refunds make me crazy too.

    So I hired someone to deal with them and I pretend they don't exist.

    They're just part of my advertising budget.

    Done.
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  • Profile picture of the author vaughnburge
    Tell me about it. Just starting out myself as newbie.I think some day my brain is go to explode form all this info I'm trying to learn.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      Louis,

      Last month, I had just spent two weeks recovering files and setting up my computer again after a mysterious crash when somebody who I'd told never to do this (still love her ) plugged the hoover into the same multi-socket as my computer and BOOM!

      I literally sat down on the floor and cried. One of many occasions in the last two years when I felt somebody was out to get me.

      I could have given up but chose to keep going.

      On the bright side, I now know what caused the first crash ("Oh, that's what happened two weeks ago!")
      .

      Martin

      P.S. I do have a decent UPS but when you switch a hoover up to max it's no contest.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hunter06
    I think that like any business or job you get the high and the low points. You are experiencing a low point. After the excitement of launching a product or business or new venture wears off there comes the feeling that something is missing. Either we focus on events in the past which appear more appealing or we focus on events in the future which appear to be more favourable than what we have currently.

    Something that has helped me through the lows is the realization that we have no control of what occurred in the past and that we have no control over what will happen in the future. We only have control of what we do right now. Our future is determined by the decisions and actions we take at this very moment in time.

    If we do only what we have to do right now and try to avoid hankering after what we had or wondering about what we will have in the future then we will become happier by living and experiencing our lives in the present.

    Only you know why you are doing what you are doing now. If you are not happy with where you are right now then only you have the power to change that. Don't give that power to someone else by allowing them to influence your current state of being.

    Make the refund, respond to a customer complaint, receive a complimentary email in the same state of mind you would have if you where doing the most joyous thing you could imagine. It's completely your choice whether you allow external forces, events or individuals to upset your state of being.

    For those of us who have achieved success in the online arena and are living the lifestyle we decided on, this is a most rewarding life on so many levels. There are few if any that would go back to being employed and give up the freedom that comes with the IM choice.

    Yes, this business can be hard, if you allow it to be hard. You get to decide whether it's going to be hard on you or whether it's going to be another challenge along your chosen path. The beauty of it is, that you have complete and total control of what you are going to do right now.

    And that is truly wonderful!
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  • Profile picture of the author kf
    Louis, One of the killers in this business is the insular way in which we work. Aside from forums, there are few people who 'get' what we are doing.

    If you don't already belong to a master mind group, consider joining one or starting one. This will give you an opportunity to vent, see what successes/challenges others are having, and a group of people to bounce ideas off.

    Another way to accomplish this is to partner with somebody. Yes you give away part of your income when you partner, but (for the most part) two minds are better than one.

    Both options will help you keep focus, stay motivated and roll easier with the punches since you will know you're not the only one facing those challenges.

    And definately out-source what you can and as quickly as possible think of yourself as managing your business and not slaving away in it.

    Best of 2009 to you!


    Originally Posted by Louis Raven View Post


    Ever feel like this? What got you through?

    Louis
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    Those who stand for nothing, fall for anything. ~ Alexander Hamilton
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