if Copywriters are good enough to charge 10K... why do they?

Yah - Word. The big mailers spend a LOT of money making sure everything ELSE is in place, not just the copy.

That includes segmenting lists, market research, focus groups, split-testing, etc. All done BEFORE the actual roll out.

It's a whole 'nother ball game at that level.

Hi Louis,

There are a lot of things that I wouldn't pay the "going price" for but I
wouldn't call the people who pay that price "stupid".

There is also a 'law of the mind' that says that if I can't see myself paying a
price I can't see myself getting that price also.

Most people who say, "I could never see myself paying XXX for this or
that also limit in their mind what comes to them as well, so be careful."

-Ray L.,

The funny thing is, the ones that can pay that are probably making a lot more money than you and your $400 letters. Most $10,000 copywriting fees are recouped within minutes of launch.

And if it's making a $10,000 product convert at 3 in 10?

It's a question of scale, of course you wouldn't pay that at a lower level.

When and if you ever reach the "Big Leagues" you might think different.

What you're saying doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

First you should expect to pay $2,000 to $10,000+ for a sales letter and accompanying emails, optin forms etc to make your site profitable.

A really good copywriter has the experience to save you a lot of costly split testing (keep in mind that many split tests reduce response).

When you start with a high converting sales letter that in itself is worth a small fortune to you if you have any kind of serious traffic.

Look at your site and ask yourself if I convert 5 times more visitors into paying clients how much is that really worth to me?

If I can pay up to $1 a click when I do pay per click advertising and still make a profit instead of only being able to pay 15 cents a click what kind of difference will that make to the potential market I can sell to (hint: it's an ENORMOUS difference).

If I'm making $1 to $5+ a visitor because all my copy is finely crafted to create the maximum number of sales per visitor how many more affiliates will I end up with?

How many more joint venture partners will I pick up because they're making many times the profits from the people they send to my site?

Cheap copy is not cheap and it's exceptionally rare that you can find a good copywriter bidding for the lowest price on a freelance site. Marketing professionals know how to market themselves.

Do you want the copywriter who only knows the lowest, least profitable marketing strategy - discounting?

Long term (and often short term) good copy pays for itself over and over.

And good copy and a well refined marketing process gives you easier, more profitable access to hungry markets through pay-per-click, affilliate and joint venture promotions.



Do the sums for yourself.

If you have a sales letter that converts at 1% immediately after being written and you get 100,000 visitors buying a $20 product you've just made $20,000 in sales.

If you hire a really good copywriter whose sales letter converts at 2% immediately after being written and you get those same 100,000 visitors buying a $20 product you've just made $40,000 in sales.

If it's a digital product the difference in profit is likely to be around $20,000 (twice what you paid your $10,000 copywriter).

And yes a good copywriter (compared to someone you might hire cheap) will often get you 2 or 3 times the conversion and help you in other ways that will make you more profits too.




Now you might be thinking...well I'm not going to get 100,000 visitors to my sales letter in the first week or two like the big guys do...it might take me 3 to 12 months to get that much traffic (at say 300 to 1,000 visitors a day).

But the figures are still the same the only difference is that it takes you longer to get the money you invested back or to effectively lose the money you could have made hiring a higher quality copywriter.

It just becomes a question of what you can afford to invest...and of finding a copywriter who produces high converting sales letters.

The value of the copywriter is dependant on the scale of your business and the conversion of his copy.

There is no dollar figure set in stone of how much a sales letter is worth...it will vary from situation to situation.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

That's complete and utter bullsh!t.

I'd never in a million years trust someone to wrte me a SALES letter if they can't even SELL me (let alone themselves) on the value of the service they provide.

With the exception of a new copywriter looking to build a portfolio...A $400/letter copywriter is an oxymoron.

This is absolutely one of the most foolish thing's I've ever heard. Bruce Wedding and Ray L. are absolutely correct in their responses. The others have also added good information.

Specialization is key. It's impossible to be good at EVERYTHING and everybody knows it. From a business standpoint, the more you specialize, the greater your profits because you can leverage your time and expertise. You can also charge more -- a LOT more. And when searching for a service provider, everybody wants to work with an expert.

As previously stated, copywriters generally love to write marketing copy. They don't want to deal with product creation, customer service hassles, managing employees, etc. They want to write. That's it. Other businesses without that expertise go find outside expert copywriters who can help them sell their products and services. Because THEY'RE experts in their products or services --NOT in copywriting! But they still need to sell their products or services. And it's a lot more cost-effective to hire someone to do it -- at $10K or more -- than go find a cheapie writer or tap their clerk to do it for them.

Publisher's Clearinghouse, NordicTrac, Nightingale-Conant, and other big and small direct marketers have a lot riding on their promotions and need to hire the best. The best comes with a price tag, but as someone else commented, it's generally a bargain and is usually recouped by the time (or before) the promotion has even ended. When you realize that rolling out a large promotion can literally kill a business if it doesn't bring in the bucks, you'll realize that businesses often live and die on a single promotion so hiring a good copywriter is CRITICAL. They can't afford to NOT hire a $10K copywriter.

I think that the WF is a great resource, but 1) too many people here forget that there's a great big world out there outside of the Internet and the WF and 2) too many people here get caught up in trying to get the best for nothing or almost nothing. Internet marketing and Internet-based businesses are some of the cheapest and most cost-effective businesses to start. It's lowered the bar for everybody and made so much possible for so many.

But focusing mainly on trying to get something for nothing or dirt cheap is a crippling mindset. It hurts you a lot more than you realize. A lot of people here would cringe or complain about having to spend $500 on getting their IM business up and running. But tell me where else you can start a business for so little?

Suppose you're trying to set up a bricks-and-mortar business. If it's retail, you'll need inventory and supplies. If it's a restaurant, you'll need specialized equipment. But let's go with a cheapie example: you're a service provider and need only office space and a receptionist. So what are your expenses?

1. First and last month's rent (which can run a few thousand dollars)
2. Security deposit
3. Electricity
4. Phone (And not a home line. You'll need a business line which is much more expensive.)
5. Salary for the receptionist.
6. Insurance
7. Office equipment leases

And that's right out of the gate, BEFORE you even start marketing! And marketing is where your money should be. Radio, TV, and newpaper ads. Association memberships. Direct mail campaigns. Etc. But the Internet makes that even better since you don't have to pay for traditional ads and advertising!

But it's the copywriters who make your ads profitable. So they are absolutely the most critical and most expensive part of the business. That's not a scam. They really ARE the most critical. Traditional advertising firms, public relations firms, marketing consultants and copywriters all perform copywriting functions and that's why they charge the big bucks and get them. (of course, different agencies, people and ads are better than others, so the standard getting the most bang for your buck caveat still applies.)

That's why Publisher's Clearinghouse would laugh at a $400 copywriter (or sniff a fraud). They would never take a $400 copywriter seriously, nor should they. As Bruce Wedding stated, that's why Publisher's Clearinghouse is making a lot more than you and your $400 letters.

Focusing on why "I would never pay $XXX" is tremendously limiting -- and incredibly foolish.

I love the WF and all it has to offer. But this kind of thinking and attitude isn't helpful or professional at all. Unfortunately, the WF is peppered with it. I'd seriously like to see a more professional, business-like attitude here all around.

Everybody wants to make millions on the Internet from home. It can be done, but not until you approach it with a business-like attitude and discipline.

Michelle

Some people just prefer to stick to their area of expertise. Writing is what they're good at, so they write. Some will have an interest in branching out, and some won't. I'm sure some of them DO create their own products.

Bob Bly, for example, has a whole line of information products out.

People play to their strengths. If you can make a great income with your writing skills, why would you necessarily want to branch out into uncharted territory (for you) when "the fishin' is fine" right where you are?

Even a letter a month will put a minimum of $100,000 into a top-notch copywriter's pocket. Why work harder than you have to? I'd do what I do best and outsource the rest.

Adam

Reason #1: They're Business Persons. They understand the value of
Reason #2: Multiple sources of income, a necessity for
Reason #3: Econonmic cycles. When one industry is down, another is up
Reason #4: They enjoy it
Reason #5: BECAUSE THEY CAN.



-Marcus

Hi,

I imagine if was hoping to make a few mill from a project, then a $10k copywriting job would be severely cutting corners. But I'm not quite at that level yet

This looks like food (or should I say, proof) regarding a current discussion over at Bruce's place.