Is IM a dirty business?

78 replies
I have absolutely zero experience with internet marketing. But this forum inspires me a lot. But the remaining though in my mind is. How "real" is this as a business? I mean what kind of real value do you have for other people as a internet marketeer. I now see it as a "dirty" way to get money.

Sorry for being so negative in this forum, but this is my main reason why I'm not getting started right away.

But I mean, creating hunderds of sites/videos to sale something with all kinds of strategy, trying to make people buy something. And mostly worthless stuff.
It feels very wrong to me.
I'm actually amazed by how passionate other people are about this stuff, and how they see this as a "real job". I mean..is this something to be proud off? Or is it just using the weakness of "the system/other people" ?

I don't want to offend anyone with this post, but this was my main thought when I read this forum.
#business #dirty
  • Profile picture of the author dadamson
    Great post!

    Firstly, there are a whole lot of "jobs" within IM..

    A lot of people are ethical and a lot of people are unethical.

    With so much of this industry saturated (to a closed minded person), it is easy for internet marketers to make one desperate last attempt at redeeming their money back from all those WSOs and products that didn't get them anywhere by selling what they know sells hot.. "make money online" products...

    People who make money by selling make money products and the like are extremely unethical and give a bad name to internet marketers.

    It's the old story of a forum post:

    give me a million dollars and I will teach you how to make a million dollars from a forum post
    Anyway...

    There are tons of ways to build a "real" and "ethical" business online.

    Personally I found that I am very savvy with Search Engine Optimization (SEO). That is my love and have built my business around it.

    I ensure that my business uses ethical practices to rank pages and I closely monitor and improve on success. That is my idea of an ethical business.

    You could build a "real" business around creating websites, writing code, writing blog content, making sales videos, making premium wordpress themes, promoting products as an affiliate. etc.

    It's all about how you do it and how serious you are about it.

    My main idea of an ethical business is the business owners intent... if they intend to build a successful and fulfilling business it is ethical, if they are just in it to make a buck it could be ethical and borderline scamming.

    Cheers,
    Dave
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    • Profile picture of the author lioncirth
      Suppose it depends on what you feel is worthless......

      The fact is that person is searching for it, so really I am simply providing them with what they are looking for.

      On all of my sites, I pride myself on providing high quality content which is not only reviews a number of products but also offers information on the niche that they are searching for.

      I suppose it is as dirty as you want to make it...I personally feel very clean
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  • Profile picture of the author Afreidman
    Its all up to you my friend.

    If you do things with the purpose of adding value, helping other people and bringing light to their lives you aren't doing something dirty...

    If you are into making money on the pain and suffering of other people then that's something else.

    In the end of the day YOU are the person who should take responsibility on your actions and how you do what you do.

    Its easy to sit on the fence and say that IM is Dirty, so take a plunge and find your own way to do things if you think what other people are doing is wrong.

    If you will feel guilty about what you're doing you won't succeed.

    So find ways to do things from your heart.

    Now whats left is to find those things.

    Good luck with your journey and welcome to the warrior forum.

    Ari F
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  • Profile picture of the author microunique
    Banned
    Hy. AT first you must understand whats the IM is? Its a huge area. And I am agree with you that there are so many unethical thins involve. But there are lots of real people out there who provide value.

    So we can't blame IM for some fake marketers(!!??).
    Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Brian
    I have not seen a "clean" business in my entire life, all types business seems to have one goal:
    Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

    trying to make people buy something
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    • Profile picture of the author letsgetstarted
      Originally Posted by Mark Brian View Post

      I have not seen a "clean" business in my entire life, all types business seems to have one goal:
      Yes I already thought about that. People working as a sales person in a retail store are also providing service for the people to buy something, and some even get a bonus if they sale something so that is actually the same. But..on this forum I see people thinking about money and then suggest each other to first make a digital product. That seems like the other way around.
      But while saying that I also recognize that brands like coca cola,apple do just the same and try to "brand" there products in such a way that they can make as much money as possible.

      So maybe its more the inside view of marketing en commerce itself that confuses me whether this is "good or bad".

      But even with knowing all that, it still seems both as not real valuable for other people. But maybe in the end all money is a "dirty business".
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      • Profile picture of the author lioncirth
        People look for these items as they feel they will benefit them, therefore whether you promote them or not they will buy them....

        If you feel that IM is dirty and bad then I think you need to do something else.... Sorry if that sounds harsh but how do you expect to stick with something for 6-12 months if you dont enjoy it....
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        • Profile picture of the author letsgetstarted
          Originally Posted by lioncirth View Post

          People look for these items as they feel they will benefit them, therefore whether you promote them or not they will buy them....

          If you feel that IM is dirty and bad then I think you need to do something else.... Sorry if that sounds harsh but how do you expect to stick with something for 6-12 months if you dont enjoy it....
          MacDonalds is very poplar so there has to be a huge demand for is, but that doesn't mean it's a good business. Look how overweight people become.(which is not all because of MacD of course) It doesn't mean its good to do just because they bought it themselfs.
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          • Profile picture of the author My220x
            Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

            MacDonalds is very poplar so there has to be a huge demand for is, but that doesn't mean it's a good business. Look how overweight people become.(which is not all because of MacD of course) It doesn't mean its good to do just because they bought it themselfs.
            How isn't McDonalds a good business? McDonalds does what any good business does, provide people what they want. Just because fat people eat McDonalds doesn't mean McDonalds is bad, there are plenty of skinny people who eat McDonalds so it can't be down to McDonalds itself besides nobody forces people to eat McDonalds, if somebody wants to eat it that's their choice.
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            • Profile picture of the author letsgetstarted
              Originally Posted by My220x View Post

              How isn't McDonalds a good business? McDonalds does what any good business does, provide people what they want. Just because fat people eat McDonalds doesn't mean McDonalds is bad, there are plenty of skinny people who eat McDonalds so it can't be down to McDonalds itself besides nobody forces people to eat McDonalds, if somebody wants to eat it that's their choice.
              Yes and No. Its un healthy food that's what I mean. But I know this is a personal decision to make, whether you eat healthy food or not.
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          • Profile picture of the author dcristo
            Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

            MacDonalds is very poplar so there has to be a huge demand for is, but that doesn't mean it's a good business. Look how overweight people become.(which is not all because of MacD of course) It doesn't mean its good to do just because they bought it themselfs.
            haha yeah blame MacD for being fat. where does accountability come into the equation?

            also, i just had a light bulb moment. did you may be think of promoting products which are NOT worthless.

            lol... some people.
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      • Profile picture of the author NestZone
        Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

        But even with knowing all that, it still seems both as not real valuable for other people. But maybe in the end all money is a "dirty business".
        Pick up courage and get started. You need money and money is dirty, then you don't need it.

        It is often said the best player is a spectator. just believe that is what you are doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Bykov
    Banned
    Haha, you got the point and struck the nerve!
    The answer is - absolutely.
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  • Profile picture of the author Apollo-Articles
    Why don't you actually sell something which is worth its cost? Rather than worthless stuff.

    Sam
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  • Profile picture of the author My220x
    Of course it's a real business, there's people who make real good living from Internet Marketing and for trying to make people buy worthless stuff well it's up to you what stuff you decide to promote so if you decide to provide people with crappy products then that's entirely your choice and your problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author ghostrecon
    The internet redefined what it meant to be a businessman. Ultimately, this is no different than setting up a physical store front dedicated to health products and selling those. Instead, we use virtual websites, affiliate programs and eBooks. Same difference.

    Additionally, this definitely has the potential to become a 'real job' if not more than that. It gives you the same (or greater amounts of income) with lots of flexibility. Any business has its ethical code which people choose to follow or not so there is nothing to say that this is any dirtier than cold callers ringing you, offering insurance/loans etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author RobertAxelsen
    Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

    How "real" is this as a business?
    Great question

    As others have mentioned, IM is such a broad term, and covers all kinds of professions from article writing and seo services to product launch "gurus" and "run-away-with-your-money-before-you-can-say-refund" scammers.

    I'd say that WF is a place where a high percantage of people are genuine about their IM and strive to provide value and build sustainable businesses as opposed to getting-rich-quick.

    Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

    But I mean, creating hunderds of sites/videos to sale something with all kinds of strategy, trying to make people buy something.
    It's just one of many ways to do IM.

    How about creating hundreds of sites and videos with valuable content that provides great value to the visitors and makes them want to get more from you, and even purchase something after having started to trust/bond with you? Better, eh

    Originally Posted by Afreidman View Post

    Its all up to you my friend.

    If you do things with the purpose of adding value, helping other people and bringing light to their lives you aren't doing something dirty...
    Very well put, Afreidman!

    A great quote springs to mind:
    "If you're not very valuable you don't get much money." -Jim Rohn
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    • Profile picture of the author letsgetstarted
      Originally Posted by RobertAxelsen View Post

      Great question
      thanks, funny men!

      By the way, I already begin to become more convinced marketing isn't that bad.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ian McConnell
    letsgetstarted, as you continue with your IM journey your own morals and ethics will guide you down the right path.

    I believe that by offering a 100% money back guarantee on all of my information products, the customer decides if the value of the information is worth the price paid. I use Clickbank and my refund rate is less than 2% so I have no problem with sleeping at night.

    However, my son has friends who believe that it is unethical to produce a digital document and sell it thousands of times at $27. I have tried to explain that the customers get a full refund, no questions asked if they request it from me (or Clickbank) and that the information is guaranteed to save the buyer hundreds of dollars... But, they still believe it's unethical.

    I think it's more a case of not understanding the business...

    Cheers
    Ian McConnell
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  • Profile picture of the author JCorp
    Wow, seriously? Great post, but what I see right off the bat is that you need to be able to change your mindset, not just about Internet Marketing but about Business as a whole. Being a business person, ONE of the main priorities is to be profitable, otherwise why get into business, or to take it to another level, why even work? So mindset must be changed in order to succeed in business, whether it's internet marketing or not.

    All money is not dirty business. If you see money as dirty business, you won't be getting much of it. But if you see money as a tool, something that makes life a little easier, something that can change your situation, the people around you, etc., then you'll start getting more of it. The only thing that will make money dirty business is YOU, the person holding the money.

    So if you think that all Internet Marketing is an easy way, or dirty way of making a living, it'll be that way for you. But if you believe it can be a great business that truly adds value to other people, then that's what it'll be for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author letsgetstarted
      Originally Posted by warrior600 View Post

      Wow, seriously? Great post, but what I see right off the bat is that you need to be able to change your mindset, not just about Internet Marketing but about Business as a whole. Being a business person, ONE of the main priorities is to be profitable, otherwise why get into business, or to take it to another level, why even work? So mindset must be changed in order to succeed in business, whether it's internet marketing or not.

      All money is not dirty business. If you see money as dirty business, you won't be getting much of it. But if you see money as a tool, something that makes life a little easier, something that can change your situation, the people around you, etc., then you'll start getting more of it. The only thing that will make money dirty business is YOU, the person holding the money.

      So if you think that all Internet Marketing is an easy way, or dirty way of making a living, it'll be that way for you. But if you believe it can be a great business that truly adds value to other people, then that's what it'll be for you.
      The reason why I am here is actually because right now I'm a part time worker in a fastfood place. Because of some personal problems I never went to college. I'm almost 25 and recently I begin to see the value of money, or better set the need of money to make a living. I have always worked but never really thought about the money I make. I was just working because? I was supposed to.

      Because I have no real talent or ambition for anything in particular I was actually amazed by this uppertunity called IM. I read a bunch of topics here and see how I could make money on the internet. While I'm also interessted in the marketing it self, I am mainly interessted in the money. Just because I need money :p But it feels so wrong to do something just for the money, while I know a lot of people do things just for the money. So maybe I shouldn't be so sensitive about business it self.
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      • Profile picture of the author Carl Fridsjö
        I promote some great products as an affiliate within the self-help/self-development market, it's really a win-win-win situation. I get the products in front of the right market, customers by products that I'm certain they will benefit from.
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        • Profile picture of the author letsgetstarted
          Originally Posted by Carl Fridsjö View Post

          I promote some great products as an affiliate within the self-help/self-development market, it's really a win-win-win situation. I get the products in front of the right market, customers by products that I'm certain they will benefit from.
          I think this is a bit "tricky". People that are searching for self-help are mostly having problems(of course which they need help for). By making the amateurely made "selfhelp products" aviable and actually putting effort to making them a target for your prduct by making a strategy to reach those particular persons. You can make people in need for help a victom of there own problems by seduce them to buy something, something that gives them hope because maybe there desparete for a solution for there problem.

          I don't say you need to make 100 % sure you actually helping them with it. But this kind of business makes me thing about is this still good to do? or are you making profit over someone else there problems.
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      • Profile picture of the author JCorp
        Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

        The reason why I am here is actually because right now I'm a part time worker in a fastfood place. Because of some personal problems I never went to college. I'm almost 25 and recently I begin to see the value of money, or better set the need of money to make a living. I have always worked but never really thought about the money I make. I was just working because? I was supposed to.

        Because I have no real talent or ambition for anything in particular I was actually amazed by this uppertunity called IM. I read a bunch of topics here and see how I could make money on the internet. While I'm also interessted in the marketing it self, I am mainly interessted in the money. Just because I need money :p But it feels so wrong to do something just for the money, while I know a lot of people do things just for the money. So maybe I shouldn't be so sensitive about business it self.




        I started young in business, and I always came into any business I got involved in, with the value that I bring to other people. After that, I always think, what else! What else can I give this person to make their experience even greater, to the point where they refer their friends and family to me... Yes that happens! But it's all about the value. There are ethical and unethical business people, just as there are ethical and unethical employees. Ultimately, you choose which one you want to be.

        Getting in this business just for the money is a reason why many people get into this business. But if you want to create a long term business then eventually a passion will be created, whether that be a passion for teaching other people, having the lightbulb coming on in their mind, or a specific niche or market that you yourself have an interest in...
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      • Profile picture of the author Cosmit
        Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

        But it feels so wrong to do something just for the money, while I know a lot of people do things just for the money.
        What have you been doing at the fast food restaurant? Were you doing it for... personal enjoyment? fun? self fulfillment? Don't give me that.

        This is a business.

        The purpose of a business is to 1) make money 2) grow

        In my opinion, if you have no experience in IM don't expect a single sale for at least half a year.
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      • Profile picture of the author art72
        Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

        The reason why I am here is actually because right now I'm a part time worker in a fastfood place. Because of some personal problems I never went to college. I'm almost 25 and recently I begin to see the value of money, or better set the need of money to make a living. I have always worked but never really thought about the money I make. I was just working because? I was supposed to.

        Because I have no real talent or ambition for anything in particular I was actually amazed by this uppertunity called IM. I read a bunch of topics here and see how I could make money on the internet. While I'm also interessted in the marketing it self, I am mainly interessted in the money. Just because I need money :p But it feels so wrong to do something just for the money, while I know a lot of people do things just for the money. So maybe I shouldn't be so sensitive about business it self.
        Unfortunately, many of today's employers have succumb to a standardized form of sophisticated slavery, as there is little security or substantial income to do more than just survive a living (if you're lucky!)

        Call me crazy, but I generally do not recommend placing any sense of long-term reliance into someone else's hands, like that of an employer. Maybe 20-30 years ago, but in today's world...security in the workplace can only be guaranteed to those who write their own checks.

        IM'ing is no different, accept it requires informed decisions, disciplined effort, and a will to succeed. Forgive the metaphor, but we have all whore'd ourselves out at one point or another in the name of money, or more importantly; survival!

        I met a very wealthy woman who once mentioned she too was a prostitute at one point in her life. Not literally, but linguistically. We all need money it's part of life, and have to do things (like fast food) that don't really fuel our dreams, ambitions, or reflect on who we really are!

        After reading your above post; I encourage you to look deeper into yourself, and draw on your true ambitions, passions, and talents. Surely, you have more to offer than you are giving yourself credit.

        Surely, you like music? sports? writing? constructing things? I could go on for days....I strongly suggest not depriving yourself of the potential you possess.

        IM'ing has all the same ingredients for creating a successful business as that of a brick-n-mortar business. Same ingredients, different recipes!

        You'll find, internet marketing is much, much cheaper to start-up, and as such there is a large marketplace filled with all types of crap.

        Think outside the box...

        Do you support, buy, use, desire, or need 90% of what stocks the shelves at your local grocer?

        No...of course not!

        But, someone out there is looking for that 'goat milk' or 'magic energy drink', and is willing to buy it.

        My suggestion....lurk awhile, don't try and buy a bunch of stuff...continue to read, as you're doing now, and get a 'feel' for what you might have to offer someone else. This is where true success resides IMO.

        *You'd be surprised at how many things you could offer, once you start looking from the outside - in.

        I myself am passionate about writing, psychology, and human behavioral patterns. Just yesterday, I stumbled on a thread that has lead me to look into a copywriting course that if properly executed could easily become a 6-7 figure income.

        Don't limit yourself or IM'ing...ultimately, you can start a business for 1/1000th of the cost of opening a fast food joint...think about it!

        All the Best,

        Art

        PS- Humility is a great teacher once the embarrassment wears off!

        PSS- Don't let the college thing bother you man, I dropped out of school in 8th grade, went on to own my own business by age 18, had a few kids, started another service based business and made over $100k per year consistently...until about 3-4 years ago when the economy went to the crapper!

        PSS-
        Now imagine pissing away 2.5 Million Dollars and starting over at age 40...and I have no regrets, it's been one hell of a journey!

        PSSS- Don't sit around wallowing in the past or crying over your losses, focus on the lessons learned in those prior failures and fuel your ambitions with the knowledge you've gained!

        TAKE ACTION!
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        • Profile picture of the author letsgetstarted
          Originally Posted by art72 View Post

          Unfortunately, many of today's employers have succumb to a standardized form of sophisticated slavery, as there is little security or substantial income to do more than just survive a living (if your lucky!)

          Call me crazy, but I generally do not recommend placing any sense of long-term reliance into someone else's hands, like that of an employer. Maybe 20-30 years ago, but in today's world...security in the workplace can only be guaranteed to those who write their own checks.

          IM'ing is no different, accept it requires informed decisions, disciplined effort, and a will to succeed. Forgive the metaphor, but we have all whored ourselves out at one point or another in the name of money, or more importantly; survival!

          I met a very wealthy woman who once mentioned she too was a prostitute at one point in her life. Not literally, but linguistically. We all need money it's part of life, and have to do things (like fast food) that don't really fuel our dreams, ambitions, or reflect on who we are!

          After reading your above post; I encourage you to look deeper into yourself, and draw on your true ambitions, passions, and talents. Surely, you have more to offer than you are giving yourself credit.

          Surely, you like music? sports? writing? constructing things? I could go on for days....I strongly suggest not depriving yourself of the potential you possess.

          IM has all the same ingredients for creating a successful business as that of a brick-n-mortar business.

          You'll find, internet marketing is much cheaper to start-up, and as such there is a large marketplace filled with all types of crap.

          Think outside the box...

          Do you support, buy, use, desire, or need 90% of what stocks the shelves at your local grocer?

          No...of course not!

          But, someone out there is looking for that 'goat milk' or 'magic energy drink', and willing to buy it.

          My suggestion....lurk awhile, don't try and buy a bunch of stuff...continue to read, as you're doing now, and get a 'feel' for what you have might offer someone else.

          *You'd be surprised at how many things you could offer, once you start looking from the outside - in.

          I myself am passionate about writing, psychology, and human behavioral patterns. Just yesterday, I stumbled on a thread that has lead me to look into a copywriting course that if properly executed could easily become a 6-7 figure income.

          Don't limit yourself or IM...ultimately, you can start a business for 1/100th of the cost of opening a fast food joint...think about it!

          All the Best,

          Art

          PS- Humility is a great teacher once the embarrassment wears off!

          PSS- Don't let the college thing bother you man, I dropped out of school in 8th grade, went on to own my own business by age 18, had a few kids, started another service based business and made over $100k per year consistently...until about 3-4 years ago when the economy went to the crapper!
          PSS-Now imagine pissing away 2.5 Million Dollars and starting over at age 40...and I have no regrets, it's been one hell of a journey!
          Thanks men, nice to get to hear the story behind the IM. I'm first going to find myself more and then think again about IM.
          ps. What kind of business did you exactly had at 18?
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          • Profile picture of the author art72
            Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

            Thanks men, nice to get to hear the story behind the IM. I'm first going to find myself more and then think again about IM.
            ps. What kind of business did you exactly had at 18?
            The true story...I worked 3 months for a guy driving an ice cream truck, earning 25% straight commissions for everything I sold. Everyone warned me; the boss played games with people, and randomly accused people of stealing.

            I DON'T STEAL...never have!

            He cut my commissions one Friday by $250, and claimed my truck was short!

            Long story short, he gave me an ultimatum...show up on Saturday or quit!

            I'M NOT A QUITTER!

            I went to work on Saturday, picked up my best friend...drove to the worst part of town (Sistrunk Blvd in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida) a predominantly black neighborhood...*mind you no prejudice intended!

            When the first customer approached the truck complaining the prices were too high...we subtly explained; "No...it's buy one get one free day!"

            We Sold-Out in 4 hours!

            Needless to say, I dropped the truck off empty...

            Sold my 1980 Camaro, bought a $400 postal truck at auction, got an over the counter license, 2 freezers, stocked the truck, bought the stupid music box, and named it;

            "Nice Dreams Ice Cream"...some of you may know why?

            And...for nearly 3 years I made over $1000 per week cash money, surfed, and loved meeting people! The majority of the money I made however, was from building swimming pools,spa's, and fountains for top contractors throughout Florida...I did that for nearly 15 years after selling the ice cream truck!

            I met my wife; Terri at age 19 driving that ice cream truck, and nearly 20 years later...she still doubts my business strategies...lol

            PS- I forgot to mention, it was all inspired by Zig Ziglar...a guest speaker at an Amway convention in NC. Never made a penny with Amway, but the 'vision' earned me .90 on every dollar selling ice cream!

            PSS- My 15yr old daughter just started her first job...doing what? Working at a frozen yogurt shop...too funny!

            You know I actually do have one small regret...I should've never sold that ice cream truck...oh, I also drew and hand-painted all the art work myself. I am that burger guy mentioned above!
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        • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
          Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

          The reason why I am here is actually because right now I'm a part time worker in a fastfood place. Because of some personal problems I never went to college. I'm almost 25 and recently I begin to see the value of money, or better set the need of money to make a living. I have always worked but never really thought about the money I make. I was just working because? I was supposed to.

          Because I have no real talent or ambition for anything in particular I was actually amazed by this uppertunity called IM. I read a bunch of topics here and see how I could make money on the internet. While I'm also interessted in the marketing it self, I am mainly interessted in the money. Just because I need money :p But it feels so wrong to do something just for the money, while I know a lot of people do things just for the money. So maybe I shouldn't be so sensitive about business it self.
          Funny that you were just working because you were supposed to. For the most part in the past I worked for the money. Be it online or off.

          Now if I work it is for the reason you have, lol "because I'm supposed to." I get some occasional flack from those around me to be doing something for some money. Because, you know - it's what everyone else does.

          I don't see myself as "everyone else."

          Anyway, you are at your job - and why do you stay there now? Is it just for the money - or because you really like it?

          I think a huge majority of people do a job or work for the money. Ask your co-workers. Ask them if they really like the job they are doing or if they have a more ideal job in there head of what they would like to be doing.

          I also think a difference you may come to understand here is that those who appear to become the most successful are getting more than just some money out of the deal. They are also doing something that brings them some kind of personal joy or satisfaction. The guy who is the best burger flipper is that because he is entertained by what he does and he has devoted himself to becoming a perfectionist at his art. He is turned on by those perfect looking grill marks on both sides of the burger. He feels some great satisfaction out of getting the burger cooked perfectly to medium rare. And the customers come to learn to ask "who is on the grill tonight?" because they know who never gets the order right. And they know if the great burger guy is back there that he will get it right every time. They know he really cares.

          I think this is when you realize it is ok, and not so "dirty."

          So for that you can look for something that is interesting for you to pursue.

          I'm sure you've maybe heard the phrase, "Do what you love and the money will follow."

          This statement is sometimes taken too literally - and other times it is exactly what it says.

          It's not really different online than it is in the offline world.

          There are tons of great business models that can be applied online. They are not dirty.

          Online marketing is just another avenue for selling.
          Signature

          "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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  • Profile picture of the author Big Al
    Got me thinking how different is it to the make-up adverts that use false eyelashes to sell mascara... the razors for shaving that constantly come out (and cost a fortune)... and the amount of insurance sold to people who don't necessarily need it.

    I think there are more cynics online in the IM niche because they see and are educated to what is going on. But I'm not so sure the offline world is so very different... albeit a little more regulated.

    Last weekend I was watching a new toothpaste launch. The small text said 82% of 29 people reported their teeth as being one shade whiter by the end of a week.

    Hardly a significant number of people but it was obviously ok to run with and a nice new marketing angle.

    I doubt many people notice or even care because they'd be prepared to take a punt on the new toothpaste if it got their teeth one shade whiter (even though good old bicarbonate of soda and cutting your caffine would probably have a greater effect).

    I think the frustration is that old skool strategies are what work but buying new products and systems is so much more fun and entertaining.
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    • Profile picture of the author letsgetstarted
      Originally Posted by Big Al View Post

      Got me thinking how different is it to the make-up adverts that use false eyelashes to sell mascara... the razors for shaving that constantly come out (and cost a fortune)... and the amount of insurance sold to people who don't necessarily need it.

      I think there are more cynics online in the IM niche because they see and are educated to what is going on. But I'm not so sure the offline world is so very different... albeit a little more regulated.

      Last weekend I was watching a new toothpaste launch. The small text said 82% of 29 people reported their teeth as being one shade whiter by the end of a week.

      Hardly a significant number of people but it was obviously ok to run with and a nice new marketing angle.

      I doubt many people notice or even care because they'd be prepared to take a punt on the new toothpaste if it got their teeth one shade whiter (even though good old bicarbonate of soda and cutting your caffine would probably have a greater effect).

      I think the frustration is that old skool strategies are what work but buying new products and systems is so much more fun and entertaining.
      Yeah, Maybe It also because Internet marketing is more transparent. The big companies are not revealing there inside marketing strategy and internet is.
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  • Profile picture of the author kamalmix
    wait guys all fo you think that im is not legal or it is dirty??? why??
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  • Profile picture of the author sscot
    IM isn't a dirty business but unfortunately it has become dirty because some of the people who's attitudes are stinking.
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  • Profile picture of the author rallenk
    As a famous anonymous Sage once said... "One Man's Trash is another Man's Treasure."
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

    I have absolutely zero experience with internet marketing. But this forum inspires me a lot. But the remaining though in my mind is. How "real" is this as a business? I mean what kind of real value do you have for other people as a internet marketeer. I now see it as a "dirty" way to get money.

    Sorry for being so negative in this forum, but this is my main reason why I'm not getting started right away.

    But I mean, creating hunderds of sites/videos to sale something with all kinds of strategy, trying to make people buy something. And mostly worthless stuff.
    It feels very wrong to me.
    I'm actually amazed by how passionate other people are about this stuff, and how they see this as a "real job". I mean..is this something to be proud off? Or is it just using the weakness of "the system/other people" ?

    I don't want to offend anyone with this post, but this was my main thought when I read this forum.
    I build websites and mobile sites for people for a living. I also sell domains. Have a couple of info products that have nothing to do with a secret "method" to rake in cash by the thousands.

    How is that dirty? There are a lot of people here who have real businesses. And I've been doing it full time for over 12 years. That DOES make it a REAL JOB. And yes, I am proud of my products.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Miranda
    I agree that any business is not "clean". The main objective of a business is to make money. On the sidelines we have helping people.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Steven Miranda View Post

      I agree that any business is not "clean". The main objective of a business is to make money. On the sidelines we have helping people.
      And making money is dirty? Try living without it. There's nothing dirty about making money unless you have a "dirty" business.
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  • Profile picture of the author danlew
    Great post! There are unethical and ethical people in all businesses not just the IM industry. If you can provide a difference and be unique and be helpful that's where you will stand out from the rest and grow, be consistent and persistent and build relationships in your niche. Most businesses fail because they don't care about support or long term aspects, they want a quick buck so they fail quickly, as the saying goes, easy come easy go. Good luck on your journey!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jordan Stark
    Right and wrong is subjective just as what is considered "dirty" can be subjective also. It seems as if the general consensus is more conservative in their methods and techniques when it comes to IM. Anything outside of that is considered "dirty". Personally, I think that "dirty" is anything illegal. Certain things can be done that are against policies but are not necessarily illegal....is that dirty? To the conservatives, yes. But to those that know how to really "get it"....if something works, it works.
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  • Profile picture of the author GregSilva
    Again, agreed with most people in the thread. It is subjective and there are always unethical things in everything. I believe though if you sell a product that actually WORKS that you have tried out yourself then you are only helping people out that are looking for what you are offering.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

    creating hunderds of sites/videos to sale something with all kinds of strategy, trying to make people buy something. And mostly worthless stuff.
    Well, the major issue here is that you are prejudiced against web sites that sell stuff. So let's look at the reality of internet marketing.

    My friend Chris Yates has a site where he sells poop signs.

    OH MY GOD IT'S THE POOP SIGN

    For $10, you can get an 8" aluminum sign that looks like a stop sign but it says "poop." Chris invented this. He is the brilliant artistic mind that realised an 8" aluminum sign that looks like a stop sign but says 'poop' would be pretty much the best thing ever. He's the one in the middle.

    You may think this is worthless, but I think it is pretty much the best thing ever, so I bought one. You can see me holding it up on my Facebook profile picture, because I'm immature that way. Here's a somewhat larger version of my FB profile picture where you can actually tell I didn't iron my shirt that day, primarily because I was so excited to have finally gotten my poop sign and couldn't wait to take a picture of it. Plus, I'm totally flipping you off.


    I also have an affiliate link to Topatoco, which pays me almost a dollar when someone buys a poop sign through it.

    TopatoCo: Poop Sign

    Now, my strategy for selling a poop sign is to say "Holy crap, it's the poop sign. It's like a stop sign, but it says 'poop.' It is pretty much the best thing ever." This is very much like the sales approach Chris uses on his own site, because I happen to agree with him. And then I put up my affiliate link.

    This is not going to make anyone buy anything. They will buy a poop sign if they agree that yes, it is the best thing ever, and they want one of their very own... in fact, that they want it somewhat more than they want that silly old $10.

    What can you do with $10, anyway? Buy a couple of coffees at Scarbutt's? Who cares! This is like a stop sign, but it says "poop." That is pretty much the best thing ever.

    Once they have it, well, it's an 8" aluminum sign that is like a stop sign but it says "poop." It's about as useful as... um... well, any other sign. You can hang it up. Or carry it around. Or show it to people. That's about it.

    And if you buy it through my affiliate link, I'll get like 70 cents. I sell about two a month. That's not much of an income. And it's not much of an income for Chris, either.

    But if I make hundreds of sites like this (presumably for different products, but retaining the average performance of two sales a month at 70 cents per sale), I'll make hundreds of dollars a month. Thousands, if I put more than one product on each of them.

    Where people get into trouble is when they try to make this "efficient." They want to make ten sites a day, for example. Or have an income of $X per month by this-and-that date. Or they only promote products that pay $X or more in commission. Or they want to be on the first page of Google for their niche.

    What this leads to is people going "the poop sign just is not all that popular," and instead they go "ooh, yoga mats, those are popular and OMFG look how much I get paid every time I sell one."

    Notice the complete lack of anything like "these are f!#king awesome and everyone should buy one." The decision was not made because the product was good and they believed in it, but because it would make them money.

    That's where things start to get "dirty" on you. Because when you stop thinking about the people who buy from you, you start making stupid decisions about what to sell and why. Efficiency is bad for people you care about. The last thing your friends or family want is to be treated with efficiency: to have maximum value extracted from them with minimal effort in the shortest time possible.

    Do not trust anyone who says IM is a "numbers game." Among other things, they do not care about you or your business. They care even less about their customers, and if they are trying to sell you something, they are actively trying to care less about you.
    Signature
    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author letsgetstarted
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Well, the major issue here is t........
      But do I understand correctly that you do have hundreds of sites with products like this?
      And do you have every site on his own domain name? (that seems to be to expensive if you sale only 2 a month?)
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      • Profile picture of the author David Keith
        here is the real issue... many of these IMers are not really professional marketers in the sense that they really know marketing. (online or offline).

        many of them are using tricks to get high search ranking by spamming article content or backlinks. Their entire purpose is not to create content for people, but instead to trick google into believing they are have created an authority site on a subject.

        to me that is absolutely un-ethical. businesses are designed to make money, but not necessarily at the peril of their customers. most offline businesses in fact offer a good value to their customers for whatever it is the do or sell. Thats why they have customers. Take nike, dell, coke,...they all make profits from their customers but they do also provide real value to their customers. many of the IMers dont provide real customer value, and that is sad.

        my second major issue with IM in general is that it has really become the new age of "shovel sellers" many of the people selling how to IM products are fooling people.

        Most did use some legit marketing too achieve their income claims, but they know they can not repeat the process over again nearly as easily as they claim you can.

        ask yourself why the heck would anyone who knew how to setup sites in a week that make $1000 a month perpetually would sell his blueprint for $37 unless he knew he could not repeat the process.

        Who is to blame, the guy who is selling tonight's winning lotto numbers or the dummies who keep buying them day after day thinking this guy probably does have tonight's winning lottery numbers.
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        • Profile picture of the author rts2271
          There are 2 kinds in IM

          Those that IM is the business. Those that IM powers their business. I still laugh when people call IM a business or a industry. Its a method, nothing more.

          There are 2 types of products in IM.

          Those that sell real products. Those that sell dreams. The ones that sell dreams make a whole lot of money, but I imagine have to delete their ethical subroutine.

          And ya it is a dirty industry that has the Justice department and the FTC getting ready to drop the hammer, has caused the credit card industry to change policies worldwide and left alot of people associating the word scam with IM.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

        But do I understand correctly that you do have hundreds of sites with products like this?
        No, I do not. I do build some sites like this, but in general, I find it too much work for not enough return. The poop sign stats are about average for one of these sites, in my experience... roughly $1.50 a month. So I've only got about 30 of these "mini money sites," and I don't worry overly about how much money they bring in.

        Personally, I'm far more interested in making my own products and building my own brand, rather than the affiliate thing; other people are very concerned about privacy and anonymity, and they work a lot harder to build buttloads of these sites, because you never have to tell anyone your name or where you live.

        That's the main tradeoff - you're setting a balance in how "out there" you want to be, and if you're an attention whore like I am, it's a no-brainer that getting ALL THE WAY out there just fits. But if you wanted to stay at home and just quietly make money online without anyone knowing about it, affiliate marketing works just as well, once you get the grunt work done.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author Itachi
      Ultimately IM is a dirty business, because when you are getting into IM you are willing to make money and money is dirty in it's nature.

      I think pretty much all have been said already .
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    I didn't read all the responses and I'm almost sure this has been mentioned but here goes anyway.

    IM is as clean or dirty as you make it. Most people see this as a business with the business model being that they provide quality products and services and offer great customer support. They are in it for the long haul and strive to build lasting relationships with their customers.

    A much smaller faction does exactly the opposite. They operate by spamming and other hit and run tactics. They sometimes steal the work of others and call it thier own. There is literally no end to what they might do to get the fast buck. Fortunately, these people are not the majority in IM.

    They sometimes appear to be the norm because they get so much of the attention while others quietly go about the business of providing value. The fast buck crowd also attracts the attention of the regulators and others who are always placing more and more restrictions on the entire marketplace because of their nonsense. This hurts everyone. It also gives people who don't know better the impression that the whole industry is crooked. It's not.

    That's how it goes. If you're looking to get into marketing online you can align yourself with one crowd or the other. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author letsgetstarted
    mmm..

    I registered at clickbank. And I just chosed randomly a product. It was fullmovies.com The site looks like a big scam. Pretent they have the lastest movies, while people on forums say they only have very old ones. Also when I google for other people that are selling fullmovie tickets I see them with a copy past of the orginal site. And then saying to people, they have to click on the link on there site because other ones can be fake copy's. What the hell, its so obvious, THAT is a dirty business. The whole fullmovies.com site does alarm bells rining in my head.

    Is this just bad luck on my side?
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

      I registered at clickbank. And I just chosed randomly a product.
      There are two kinds of people in this world.

      People who want to build a quality product and will work on something for weeks, months, or even years before it's finished.

      Or people who just want to make money and will dash something out in a couple of hours to puke up onto the net.

      It should not be hard to figure out why the latter group is putting out more products than the former one. They don't care how good the product is.

      Even though I can produce a product in two hours, that product is not good enough. I know that in another couple of days, I can produce a product that is worth a lot more, and with a week or two of added effort I can slap a much higher price tag on it while still delivering ten times that price in value.

      Meanwhile, Joe Blow the Alabama Scammer is crapping out a product in two hours every couple days, and by the time I've got my one product up he's already got twenty.

      Now imagine that you pick one at random. Whose product are you most likely to get, and how good is it likely to be?

      That's one of the reasons I don't do a lot of affiliate stuff. It's hard to find good products. It takes time. And you have to buy a lot of crap along the way before you find a badass product worth promoting.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author Itachi
      Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

      mmm..

      I registered at clickbank. And I just chosed randomly a product. It was fullmovies.com The site looks like a big scam. Pretent they have the lastest movies, while people on forums say they only have very old ones. Also when I google for other people that are selling fullmovie tickets I see them with a copy past of the orginal site. And then saying to people, they have to click on the link on there site because other ones can be fake copy's. What the hell, its so obvious, THAT is a dirty business. The whole fullmovies.com site does alarm bells rining in my head.

      Is this just bad luck on my side?

      Actually the Fullmovies.com salespage look quite professional and attracting, I know what you're saying it's hard to find products to promote but you have to realize peoples pushing such products are'nt teenagers that just got out of college, these guys paid $$$ in order to have this software developed and salepage designed, now you have to think..do people would invest in a business that does'nt work ? no

      I have no idea about the quality of this product but remember there is always a 60 days money back guarantee so if the software is indeed crap it will have a huge refund rate( and more than a few legitimate bad reviews).

      But trust me there are quality products out there(on clickbank) you just got to find them, let's take ChrisFarrell Membership for exemple, do you really think chris is a scammer ? or someone who make money by legitimately teaching other peoples internet marketing?

      The best way in fact would be to purchase products that you're interested to promote and make an unbiased review about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    If you sell goods and services that people want and that actually
    help to improve their lives in some way, then internet marketing,
    or any type of sales is very honorable.

    Sales people who sell things that they don't believe will eventually
    burn out.

    Also, selling isn't about tricking people into buying things that they
    know that they don't want. It is about helping them to see that
    your product is a solution to their problem... and there are people
    out there who would sell anything to anybody, regardless of whether
    it works or not. I don't believe that those people are in the
    majority.

    Willie
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  • Profile picture of the author Richy Burns
    In My opinion, this is how life in general works.... The internet as a whole (irrespective of how you make your online money) is based on the structures and business practices that have worked since the dawn of time. There are Dirty businesses offline and on. Dirty businesses in the IM niche as well as every niche online.

    The beauty is this. If there is so much rubbish out there then that leaves a small gap for you to offer something of value. Something customers will love you for

    Rich
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  • Profile picture of the author Dholno
    Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

    I have absolutely zero experience with internet marketing. But this forum inspires me a lot. But the remaining though in my mind is. How "real" is this as a business? I mean what kind of real value do you have for other people as a internet marketeer. I now see it as a "dirty" way to get money.

    Sorry for being so negative in this forum, but this is my main reason why I'm not getting started right away.

    But I mean, creating hunderds of sites/videos to sale something with all kinds of strategy, trying to make people buy something. And mostly worthless stuff.
    It feels very wrong to me.
    I'm actually amazed by how passionate other people are about this stuff, and how they see this as a "real job". I mean..is this something to be proud off? Or is it just using the weakness of "the system/other people" ?

    I don't want to offend anyone with this post, but this was my main thought when I read this forum.
    Well before moving to marketing you need to know if you have what it takes. Do you think the marketing company working for Marlboro, for example, should refuse a campaign because is bad for the health, etc. etc.???

    The same question you should ask on the microniches you are mentioning. Is up to you to decide where is that line.

    DH
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    • Profile picture of the author Elmer Hurlstone
      Is medicine a dirty business? Numerous physicians and other medical practitioners have been arrested, tried and convicted for sex crimes and illegal drug sales.

      Is finance a dirty business? Sock brokers, investment advisers and hedge fund operators have gone to jail for fraud.

      Is religion a dirty business? Numerous clerics, church workers and youth leaders go to jail each year for a variety of offenses.

      Is accounting and bookkeeping a dirty business? Money is involved and some practitioners yield to temptation.

      Is law a dirty business? It has been reported some attorneys, judges and law enforcement officers are ethically challenged to the point incarceration is necessary.

      The point is, every human endeavor has its 'bad guys'.

      Conversely each has its 'good guys', too.

      IM, in its various aspects is no different.

      Elmer
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      • Profile picture of the author David Keith
        Originally Posted by Elmer Hurlstone View Post

        ....

        Is finance a dirty business? Sock brokers, investment advisers and hedge fund operators have gone to jail for fraud.

        ....

        Elmer
        maybe thats a niche i could sell to...how to become a SOCK broker. just messing with you...my mind instantly saw a new niche i had never considered.

        in all seriousness though, the low entry cost and ability to fake anything online exacerbates the problem of people scamming others.

        its harder for offline people to do that. you local repair garage cant screw people over and then just pick up and move to a new town next week. That sort of thing happens everyday on the internet.

        and i honestly dont think many of these people are out to scam anyone. many how to IMers did indeed figure out a way to make money one way or another. Then they either consciously or maybe unconsciously made a business decision that they could make more money selling their idea than they could using their idea.

        i have to put a lot of this on the consumers...those who buy these offers have behaviorally trained the market place that they will indeed buy the next offer that promises to show them how to make six figures in 60 days with little effort.

        once it is know that there is a market for something... give them something to buy...thats not a new marketing idea.

        there was a famous bank robber who was on the run. When the police finally caught him one officer asked him why had robbed banks. he answered simply..."I go where the money is"

        consumers have taught the "how to IM industry" they will buy this crap so people keep producing it.
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by owslaw123 View Post

          its harder for offline people to do that. you local repair garage cant screw people over and then just pick up and move to a new town next week. That sort of thing happens everyday on the internet.
          Be on the lookout for new laws to appear that make it harder for ONLINE people to do this, too.

          And I'm betting the government's crosshairs will be focused on domain privacy pretty early in that process.
          Signature
          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author Dholno
          Originally Posted by owslaw123 View Post

          ....consumers have taught the "how to IM industry" they will buy this crap so people keep producing it.
          I disagree. You are mixing up desperate consumers in need for fast solutions with the rest. I personally don't think consumers have teach much (with exceptions of course) to the average IMs around except for leaving digital leads in keywords in the Google algorithm. Powerful information and money to be made with that but virgin (not fully exploited) and far from cover the majority of the market.

          Customer buy the "crap" you mention just because they are desperate from one reason or another not because the marketing strategies used are brilliant (IMO and in most cases). You just need to check some of the threads around. There is one fresh example of this a few threads below with the typical make, fast, 1 million in 10 hours, etc ,etc and it gets 800 views with 4 posts in less than 15 mins ...

          Going back to the OP question. I think dirty is maybe the 1st perception you get when you join forums like WF especially if you are new in IM but as many posters have said is up to you what business you want to make of it. IM is a big field and you can go, make, give and take as much and as clean or dirty as you want. The important issue IMO is not get your mind blur with the noise of the huge amount of "info" on the how to make millions quick niche.

          DH
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  • Profile picture of the author lowkey786
    its all about how you roll in the internet marketing world. You can either choose to roll with those bad guys that don't care about their customers and make crappy products that don't work. Or you can choose to be friends with those who have integrity and care about their customers success, its all down to you my friend
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    • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
      Remember you don't have to market like the guys who you think give IM a bad name... do it your own way do it how you think is right.

      Just because someone says you should sell crap doesn't mean you have to..

      Right on to the serious stuff.. anyone know where i can buy a small stops sign that says POOP??
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  • Profile picture of the author WebPen
    I know a lot of sales pages look scammy, but there are some great products under some of those pages.

    Some people (like my wife) are still convinced that IM is a huge scam.

    Even when I tell her that you can promote other things besides MMO products (maybe you can promote treadmills for example), she says something like "if you havent tried the treadmill, how do you know how good it is? Why would I buy it from your site?"

    Bottom line is- some people are always going to think the internet is just scammy, not a legitimate business, etc.

    But the truth of the matter is that you can market very legit, life-changing stuff and make a difference AND earn money at the same time.

    Plus when I think of business models like Mary Kay or MLM where you're basically exploiting friendships and relationiships for money- that's jacked up.

    (I know thats not the only way to do it, but when your wife gets invited to a Mary Kay party by a friend, its tough to say no even though she KNOWS she'll be sold to)
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  • Profile picture of the author Spyder77
    Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

    I have absolutely zero experience with internet marketing. But this forum inspires me a lot. But the remaining though in my mind is. How "real" is this as a business? I mean what kind of real value do you have for other people as a internet marketeer. I now see it as a "dirty" way to get money.

    Sorry for being so negative in this forum, but this is my main reason why I'm not getting started right away.

    But I mean, creating hunderds of sites/videos to sale something with all kinds of strategy, trying to make people buy something. And mostly worthless stuff.
    It feels very wrong to me.
    I'm actually amazed by how passionate other people are about this stuff, and how they see this as a "real job". I mean..is this something to be proud off? Or is it just using the weakness of "the system/other people" ?

    I don't want to offend anyone with this post, but this was my main thought when I read this forum.
    To answer your question: that depends entirely on you. There is more to IM than making a fast buck, or for that matter, IM itself as a niche. Its only one of several niches that Internet Marketers operate in.

    I think the IM niche takes the most fire because its the most visible among any niches that anyone involved in internet marketing will deal with, and where you get to see the best & worst of it, and everything in between. Its unfortunate, but the worst of it is what makes the biggest impression. Which is also unfair to those in the IM niche who have nothing in common with the low grade IM niche operators.

    Either way, whatever niche you go into it, YOU decide whether or not its a dirty business, and nobody else. That's the real beauty of IM: you're in control, its your baby, and you determine the rules you play by.

    Those rules, the type of content you develop, how you choose, market, and sell your product, and how you regard and treat your customers will determine whether its a dirty business or not.

    My approach is really very simple, although there's a lot of technical things involved which aren't so simple. Develop your website, and every aspect of it (including layout, content, your list and how you use it, etc) with basic questions in mind which all address the same essential ingredient: does the look and layout of my site mesh with what a customer coming here will hope to find? Does my content provide value which will not only keep them interested and provide some solution, but make them want more of it? Were I the customer, would I be satisfied with the product I'm selling at the price being asked for to the degree that I would buy again from you? Am I mailing those on my list so frequently that rather than look forward to reading my e-mail, they'll delete it unread or mark it as spam? Does my e-mail plant in the customer's mind that I have their interests at heart and value them, or is it impersonal and a monologue instead of an attempt to create a dialogue? Am I providing them with the useful information in my e-mail, such that they'll want to buy any product I link in it, or does it come off as an empty sales pitch?

    Your answers to those kinds of questions, and yours alone, define exactly what kind of marketer you are. And nothing else - not the niche your in, nor its sub-niche.

    -Spyder
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanzona
    If you're selling junk at inflated prices and treating customers poorly, then you would be contributing to the poor image IM has. Instead, if you provide good value for products that help people, then you are are a part of the solution, not the problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author LErinator
    Along with the harsh reality of the previous posts, the marketing industry is just inherently like that. But even deeper, the whole of consumerism is about selling things people don't want to those who have disposable income. It really starts to get shady and morally wrong when you are taking advantage of feelings or when it is misleading as a necessity and therefor negates the disposable income aspect. Some companies have ethics, some do not...that is up to the regulators to do something about...meanwhile its their world, we just play in it.
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  • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
    Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

    But I mean, creating hunderds of sites/videos to sale something with all kinds of strategy, trying to make people buy something. And mostly worthless stuff.
    It feels very wrong to me.
    If you feel wrong about it then maybe marketing is not the career choice for you.

    And there is nothing wrong with that.

    However, I will say that what seems worthless to YOU may not be to others. I personally find those "self motivation" products to be a serious waste of time. But obviously others find great value because its a huge industry/niche.

    As I said, maybe marketing isn't for you. It's what we do. We promote things, products, and services. The marketing industry hasn't really changed all that much over the years, but the platforms and channels most definitely have.
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    You're going to fail. If you're afraid of failure then you do not belong in the Internet Marketing Business. Period.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by BloggingPro View Post

      ...

      However, I will say that what seems worthless to YOU may not be to others. I personally find those "self motivation" products to be a serious waste of time. But obviously others find great value because its a huge industry/niche.
      thats necessarily true. they be searching for an answer that is intentionally being withheld in order to make money selling the next problem.

      i think that is a common theory among new IMers. that the gurus are withholding the real truth.

      but the real truth is usually something they dont want to here. the real truth is that there is a learning curve to be good at anything. IM is no exception, and that for 95% of the people out there, that learning curve is going to involve a lot of hard work and probably some (several for most) failed attempts to be successful.

      try to sell that... i dont care how good your sales letter is, that truth is not going to convert very well, so why bother trying to sell it.

      Most IMers eventually learn to sell them what they want...tonight's winning lottery numbers for $37(ie a get rich quick idea of some sort)
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  • Profile picture of the author Rough Outline
    Name one business that is clean through out. These threads are boring.
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    • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
      Originally Posted by Rough Outline View Post

      Name one business that is clean through out. These threads are boring.
      Hey wait a minute. I've heard GE is as squeaky clean and wholesome as their commercials paint them as!

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      You're going to fail. If you're afraid of failure then you do not belong in the Internet Marketing Business. Period.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve B
      LetsGetStarted:

      I see you just joined the forum this month. Welcome.

      If you are interested in pursuing IM you are in the right place. Dig in -- learn all you can -- gravitate toward the Warriors who have experience, are successful in their businesses, and are willing to help you. Pay special attention to sorting out the truth from all that you will see and hear on this forum.

      You said: "I have always worked but never really thought about the money I make."

      May I suggest you start thinking about that from this point forward.

      Having a clear understanding of what you want out of life, what you need, and how you'll get it will have a profound affect on the career path that you choose. Money is important but having it will never satisfy your inner desires for certain interpersonal relationships, self actualization, and personal peace and happiness.

      You stated, "I have no real talent or ambition for anything in particular."

      That is going to have to change if you want to be successful in IM or any other field! Without skills, desires, and motivation you are NOT ready to start you own business.

      You will be better off working for someone else that will pay you for doing the kind of tasks that require little thought, aptitude, or passion (basically, what you're doing right now).

      Your future is in your own hands. I don't think you're ready, at least right now, to be successful in self employment.

      This forum is a great place to learn, watch, and start thinking about your future. When you learn and develop some skills, become motivated enough to turn your new skills into action and persist commitment, then you should look for ways to monetize your newly found assets to help other people solve their problems. Then, consider IM as a vehicle to get what you want.

      Good luck to you.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author letsgetstarted
        Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

        LetsGetStarted:

        I see you just joined the forum this month. Welcome.

        If you are interested in pursuing IM you are in the right place. Dig in -- learn all you can -- gravitate toward the Warriors who have experience, are successful in their businesses, and are willing to help you. Pay special attention to sorting out the truth from all that you will see and hear on this forum.

        You said: "I have always worked but never really thought about the money I make."

        May I suggest you start thinking about that from this point forward.

        Having a clear understanding of what you want out of life, what you need, and how you'll get it will have a profound affect on the career path that you choose. Money is important but having it will never satisfy your inner desires for certain interpersonal relationships, self actualization, and personal peace and happiness.

        You stated, "I have no real talent or ambition for anything in particular."

        That is going to have to change if you want to be successful in IM or any other field! Without skills, desires, and motivation you are NOT ready to start you own business.

        You will be better off working for someone else that will pay you for doing the kind of tasks that require little thought, aptitude, or passion (basically, what you're doing right now).

        Your future is in your own hands. I don't think you're ready, at least right now, to be successful in self employment.

        This forum is a great place to learn, watch, and start thinking about your future. When you learn and develop some skills, become motivated enough to turn your new skills into action and persist commitment, then you should look for ways to monetize your newly found assets to help other people solve their problems. Then, consider IM as a vehicle to get what you want.

        Good luck to you.

        Steve
        Yes you are totally right. I actually have some personal isues the last years, which makes me clueless about which direction to follow because I miss a real motivation/ambition, thats why I stay in the "mindless" job I have.
        Actually my problems lies withing me and is pretty of topic on a forum like this.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Keith
          Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

          Yes you are totally right. I actually have some personal isues the last years, which makes me clueless about which direction to follow because I miss a real motivation/ambition, thats why I stay in the "mindless" job I have.
          Actually my problems lies withing me and is pretty of topic on a forum like this.
          I am no counselor mate, but i would suggest you simply start by doing something. i leaned a valuable lesson a few years back about moving on from things in life that happen to all of us.

          The advice given to me was that it was impossible to forget about the past or to leave the past behind...the only option is to fill your mind with new stuff. you can't... not think about stuff, you can only have a new more pervasive and dominant thought. try it..dont think about your favorite pet. no what are you thinking?

          if you spend more time doing some of the things you are pretty sure will lead you to success, you just might find that your personal issues and past become a distant memory sooner than you think.

          it seems to me you are over thinking and under doing. its a typical mistake.
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  • Profile picture of the author LaSCuBana
    To be honest I don't think you could understand it unless you were in it. And it's not too far from the commercial you watch on TV.... excepts WAY MORE opportunity to earn WAY MORE money. Don't knock it til you try it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Harper
    IM, like most things, is as dirty as your conscience allows.

    Is roofing a dirty business? Well, the guy who encouraged me to cheat my insurer and offered to certify non-existent wind damage sure was dirty.

    The contractor that I actually hired wasn't.

    The stock broker who pushes whatever his company is trying to unload on lower end customers certainly is dirty.

    The financial adviser who my wife works for isn't.

    I think you get the idea.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Harper
    It's like anything else, there are people who take shortcuts and have no problem ripping people off, and there are people who sincerely want to provide value and make an honest buck.

    You get a lot more scammers in IM, though, than in real life because of 1) The anonymous nature of the internet and 2) A lot of the get-rich-quick type products play to a desperate-for-answers crowd.
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  • Profile picture of the author jdk1970
    I think you're taking one small part of Internet marketing and assuming it represents the entire industry.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    Here are my 4 concerns :-

    1) There are good product in the IM business, but there is also a dark side filled with scams and crap out there.

    2) Most people are losing their jobs with the economy the way it is, and some fly by nighters are taking advantage of those looking to make money online.

    3) There are scammers putting a bad name on the legitimate sellers in the IM game.

    4) The dirty side of IM will get worse when the US does actaully collapse (which is in the process of happening now) When people get desperate they will do anything to pay the bills.

    Just my 2 cents.
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    • Profile picture of the author art72
      Originally Posted by celente View Post

      Here are my 4 concerns :-

      1) There are good product in the IM business, but there is also a dark side filled with scams and crap out there.

      2) Most people are losing their jobs with the economy the way it is, and some fly by nighters are taking advantage of those looking to make money online.

      3) There are scammers putting a bad name on the legitimate sellers in the IM game.

      4) The dirty side of IM will get worse when the US does actaully collapse (which is in the process of happening now) When people get desperate they will do anything to pay the bills.

      Just my 2 cents.
      celente,

      A sad reality indeed!

      While the US is 'dog-paddling' to a degree as a result economy, the real shocker is not above any of us to recognize the damage being done globally as a result of greed and power!

      Here's proof:http://youtu.be/jqxENMKaeCU
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Hess
    Originally Posted by letsgetstarted View Post

    I now see it as a "dirty" way to get money.
    Compared to porn, stripping or drug dealing, being involved in Internet marketing really isn't THAT bad.
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