The Conservative Old School & Their Fading Paradigm

100 replies
I'd like to discuss something that may jolt a few people but I think that it is time that this is addressed.

There are a lot of people in IM that are over 45 and just got into the "digital thing" a few years ago and have positioned their selves as somewhat of an authority on this site and others. They have an extremely conservative outlook and frame of reference when it comes to IM techniques, methods, etc. They bring an old school mentality to the IM world that simply doesn't belong any more. They are quick to label anyone using techniques and methods that they don't understand as cynical. Because of their irrelevant moral hang-ups...I've seen quite a few people get banned from forums and blacklisted.

I think that it's time to establish a new standard, a new code of ethics and a new approach to IM. I know that I am not alone on this and if you see what I see, let me know your thoughts.

Now, I already know that there will be some replies in this thread from some of the old school conservatives that will do exactly what is expected. That's the main reason why their old paradigm is fading...it's predictable.
#conservative #fading #paradigm #school
  • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
    So, you joined this forum in June, and so far have contributed 22 posts...

    So your knowledge of the older, long term members is........? :confused:
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    • Profile picture of the author TiffLee
      Originally Posted by AnniePot View Post

      So, you joined this forum in June, and so far have contributed 22 posts...

      So your knowledge of the older, long term members is........? :confused:
      I'm not quite sure that a 'join date' and 'post count' is the best measure of somebody's knowledge of Internet Marketing.

      ... it is quite possible that this person has a six-figure business and spends the majority of his time perfecting that rather than being on the WF.
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      • Profile picture of the author PMinc
        Originally Posted by TiffLee View Post

        I'm not quite sure that a 'join date' and 'post count' is the best measure of somebody's knowledge of Internet Marketing.

        ... it is quite possible that this person has a six-figure business and spends the majority of his time perfecting that rather than being on the WF.
        Exactly...I always felt the judge-by-post count thing is like a return to high school.
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        • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
          Just to clear something up...

          Annie said:

          Originally Posted by AnniePot View Post

          So, you joined this forum in June, and so far have contributed 22 posts...

          So your knowledge of the older, long term members is........? :confused:
          Note that she said knowledge of members... NOT knowledge of IM.


          Originally Posted by TiffLee View Post

          I'm not quite sure that a 'join date' and 'post count' is the best measure of somebody's knowledge of Internet Marketing.

          ... it is quite possible that this person has a six-figure business and spends the majority of his time perfecting that rather than being on the WF.

          That's exactly Annie's point -- since the OP hasn't been on this forum for long, where does the knowledge about the members come from? (Indeed, the OP mentioned that some people on this forum have the problematic mentality, hence Annie's remark, I'd imagine.)

          I'm not trying to speak for Annie, but it seems that everyone thinks she was talking about IM knowledge, when she clearly stated she was referring to knowledge of WF's members.

          OK, carry on.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jordan Stark
            OMG...now, I'm the OP. The said mentality is not only members of WF...wow. Most of these responses give validity to the point I'm trying to make.
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            • Profile picture of the author David Keith
              Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

              OMG...now, I'm the OP. The said mentality is not only members of WF...wow. Most of these responses give validity to the point I'm trying to make.
              i will ask again...exactly what mentality is that?
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            • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
              Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

              OMG...now, I'm the OP. The said mentality is not only members of WF...wow. Most of these responses give validity to the point I'm trying to make.
              OP = original poster
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

              Most of these responses give validity to the point I'm trying to make.
              Judging by the concepts of ethics and morality at which you more-than-hinted in this thread, I'd say you've decidedly chosen the wrong forum in which to try to make it.
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            • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
              Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

              OMG...now, I'm the OP. The said mentality is not only members of WF...wow. Most of these responses give validity to the point I'm trying to make.
              You have no point. If you say something is no longer relevant it is up to you in that same statement to share what you think is currently relevant.

              But you didn't take that approach. Most likely because you have no idea what currently works and what doesn't.

              But you didn't attack any one form of marketing that could be disputed or confirmed by other Warriors. Instead you made a definitive blanket statement against all Warriors over 45. Never mind the fact that some of us old timers may be paying more in taxes than what you gross in a year.
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            • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
              Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

              OMG...now, I'm the OP. The said mentality is not only members of WF...wow. Most of these responses give validity to the point I'm trying to make.
              Just to be clear OP means Original Poster it is not a bad name or derogitory remark
              -WD
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            • Profile picture of the author kellyburdes
              Maybe if "most of the posts" are coming from "old school" types it's indeed not "fading" as you suggest?

              Maybe you missed the mark a bit.


              Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

              OMG...now, I'm the OP. The said mentality is not only members of WF...wow. Most of these responses give validity to the point I'm trying to make.
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          • Profile picture of the author TiffLee
            Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

            Just to clear something up...

            Annie said:

            Note that she said knowledge of members... NOT knowledge of IM.

            That's exactly Annie's point -- since the OP hasn't been on this forum for long, where does the knowledge about the members come from? (Indeed, the OP mentioned that some people on this forum have the problematic mentality, hence Annie's remark, I'd imagine.)

            I'm not trying to speak for Annie, but it seems that everyone thinks she was talking about IM knowledge, when she clearly stated she was referring to knowledge of WF's members.

            OK, carry on.
            Whoa, you got me.

            ... apparently my morning coffee and muffin has yet to kick in, thus rendering my reading comprehension to nearly zilch.

            And, yes, I will be carrying on now.
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            • Profile picture of the author Gail_Curran
              You still haven't explained what you think this old mentality is. You are just wasting other people's time by playing silly games. Is that the new mentality?
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        • Profile picture of the author capitalalchemy
          So....you're proposing that we......euthanize them?
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          • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
            Originally Posted by capitalalchemy View Post

            So....you're proposing that we......euthanize them?
            He is not proposing anything. Just a hopeful whippersnapper talking guff in order to gain a following me thinks.
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            • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
              Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

              He is not proposing anything. Just a hopeful whippersnapper talking guff in order to gain a following me thinks.
              Us old-schoolers would call that "trolling" but the market dictates
              what tactics and techniques work. Many new school things only
              work short-term and often just drive market adjustments (changes
              in search engine algo, new email laws, new FTC laws, etc.).

              Change is good, but not change for change sake.

              As far as this forum is concerned, community members set and
              enforce the standards, and that has changed a LOT over the years.

              Old school marketing itself does work because basic human
              instincts and behavior haven't changed in a LONG time.

              Willie
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          • Profile picture of the author bretski
            Will there be uniforms, codes of misconduct and possibly goosestepping?
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            • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
              Originally Posted by bretski View Post

              Will there be uniforms, codes of misconduct and possibly goosestepping?
              Can I have a talking parrot as part of my new uniform?
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              • Profile picture of the author TiffLee
                Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

                Can I have a talking parrot as part of my new uniform?


                Might as well go all out and get a peg leg, also.
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              • Profile picture of the author bretski
                Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

                Can I have a talking parrot as part of my new uniform?
                We're not PIRATES! Well, I guess we could be pirates. Pirates are pretty cool but if you get a talking parrot I get a monkey! Calls it!
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      • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
        Originally Posted by TiffLee View Post

        I'm not quite sure that a 'join date' and 'post count' is the best measure of somebody's knowledge of Internet Marketing.

        You are mis-interpreting my response. I was pointing out the poster's knowledge and experience of this forum, NOT internet marketing.
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        • Profile picture of the author TiffLee
          Originally Posted by AnniePot View Post

          You are mis-interpreting my response. I was pointing out the poster's knowledge and experience of this forum, NOT internet marketing.
          Yeah, sorry about that.

          See my post not too far up.

          ... I admitted to my lack of early morning reading comprehension.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      legit business standards and creating value for the end users customers is the gold standard of offline and online promotions.

      when i started online 15 years ago it worked and it still works today. what we need is for "professional" internet marketers to stop using get rich quick tactics (spamming of any sort email, content, backlink....) that make the web as a whole a worse place for all of us to live, work, and play.

      You must create value for your customers, not trick a search engine. that business model wont last.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jordan Stark
      AnniePot, your reply was expected. The IM world is bigger than WF. I've been in the game for years and I'm successful at what I do. I've just been too busy actually making money than making posts.
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    • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
      Originally Posted by AnniePot View Post

      So, you joined this forum in June, and so far have contributed 22 posts...

      So your knowledge of the older, long term members is........? :confused:
      Of course post count and join dates mean nothing. Sometimes people have too much time on their hands it doesn't always mean they have a successful business.

      Some people make money and take time to help others and contribute to the community while others just post to complain and whine about one thing or another.

      Once you have been around this business long enough you tend to just focus on your own business products and customers. After all that is what this is all about
      -WD
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        These vague postings by the OP is an old technique trying to "introduce" content curation marketing, and has already been done here several times before. You're too late to the party, man.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
          Originally Posted by myob View Post

          These vague postings by the OP is an old technique trying to "introduce" content curation marketing has been done here several times before. You're too late to the party, man.
          And that was done by people in their 60s!
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          • Profile picture of the author capitalalchemy
            You're talking about a fading paradigm, but being very *hush* *hush* about it like the bad people will come and get you if you say too much.

            This leads me to believe that you are talking about making money by way of something not ethical, such as fake virus software, viagra spam ads, etc.

            Yet, you have also stated that you are NOT talking about something unethical.

            And you keep using the word "conservative" in a way that does not seem to apply. It almost looks like a political thing to be honest.

            In any regards, this is a forum for sharing ideas and information. You don't have to spell all of your secrets out, but you also can't expect people to read your mind.

            Now, from what I have gathered from reading between the lines in your posts, yes -- I do agree that in most cases these days that there is no quality in information and people aren't being helped enough, but I only see that in the internet marketing niche by way of most newsletters.

            So, I just said that - is that what you mean? and if so, why didn't you just say it from the beginning?
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  • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
    If you find this forum and the people on it to be so problematic, then what are you doing here?

    If you want to change the world, get on with it. You don't need anyone's permission.



    ~Becky

    p.s. I'm under 45, but I expect that answer was still a bit too predictable, eh?
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    • Profile picture of the author Jordan Stark
      Becky, I never said that I have a problem with WF. I'm addressing a mentality that is ALL OVER the internet and is indeed fading.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Keith
        Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

        Becky, I never said that I have a problem with WF. I'm addressing a mentality that is ALL OVER the internet and is indeed fading.
        exactly what mentality is that?
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    If your tactics consist of posting threads like this one in order to gain a following I'll take a pass on listening to anymore of your "NEW SCHOOL" strategies.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jordan Stark
    I'm not a "hopeful whippersnapper". I'm not a "newbie". You don't need a following to be successful at IM. I represent a new paradigm. There is a convergence taking place and I want to know what people think about it.
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    • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      I'm not a "hopeful whippersnapper". I'm not a "newbie". You don't need a following to be successful at IM. I represent a new paradigm. There is a convergence taking place and I want to know what people think about it.
      A new convergence? Please do share.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      I'm not a "hopeful whippersnapper". I'm not a "newbie". You don't need a following to be successful at IM. I represent a new paradigm. There is a convergence taking place and I want to know what people think about it.
      exactly what old school mentality are you speaking of and what is the "new paradigm" you speak of? paradigm means viewpoint so what is this revolutionary new viewpoint you speak of?

      this will be my last post to this thread if you continue to refuse to answer my questions about your ideas.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

    I'd like to discuss something that may jolt a few people but I think that it is time that this is addressed.
    Ok...

    There are a lot of people in IM that are over 45 and just got into the "digital thing" a few years ago and have positioned their selves as somewhat of an authority on this site and others.
    I hear you - I'm going to be 50 soon and I only got into the "Digital Thing" 38 years ago. Even though I was only 11, it did at least set the stage for highly successful career in electronics, engineering and development. Digital Newbie that I am, I could never be an authority here :rolleyes:

    They have an extremely conservative outlook and frame of reference when it comes to IM techniques, methods, etc. They bring an old school mentality to the IM world that simply doesn't belong any more. They are quick to label anyone using techniques and methods that they don't understand as cynical. Because of their irrelevant moral hang-ups...I've seen quite a few people get banned from forums and blacklisted.
    Unless you're talking about purely illegal methodologies or blackhat techniques that are sure to cause problems, I'm not too sure I follow you.

    I think that it's time to establish a new standard, a new code of ethics and a new approach to IM. I know that I am not alone on this and if you see what I see, let me know your thoughts.
    Hmmm...again, you're not defining the ethics of the "Old School" or what the new "Standard" should be so it's difficult to comment.

    Now, I already know that there will be some replies in this thread from some of the old school conservatives that will do exactly what is expected. That's the main reason why their old paradigm is fading...it's predictable.
    Let's see...Marketing 101 - Predictability. It's what makes business what it is.

    The real reason you'll get the responses you'll no doubt get is and was easily predictable, because as a newcomer to this forum you've failed to communicate exactly what the issue is.

    We need a frame of reference in terms of your definition of the old and new standards are, because you've left them open to interpretation.

    You're far too vague in your comments thus far to have a real discussion...I could say predictable newbie behavior, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not one.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      We need a frame of reference in terms of your definition of the old and new standards are, because you've left them open to interpretation.
      Your old and decrepit paradigm of being open and clear about what you're discussing is fast becoming irrelevant and lame. The new paradigm is being vague and cryptic. You couldn't possibly understand. Move over, old man!
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      • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

        Your old and decrepit paradigm of being open and clear about what you're discussing is fast becoming irrelevant and lame. The new paradigm is being vague and cryptic. You couldn't possibly understand. Move over, old man!

        Papa Bear, this is Mama Bear. The Eagle flies at midnight. The Eagles flies at midnight!
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
          Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

          Papa Bear, this is Mama Bear. The Eagle flies at midnight. The Eagles flies at midnight!
          The Eagle washes its feet in the river at dawn. It drops the salmon in the foxhole at half past nine. It rubs the lotion on its skin or it gets the hose again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jordan Stark
    I never stated exactly what my concept or morals and ethics are. I did state that there is an old mentality that is fading and trying everything that it can to stay afloat. If you are offended by this thread...I'm not going to apologize for you pointing yourself out by making some sort of derogatory reply.
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      I never stated exactly what my concept or morals and ethics are. I did state that there is an old mentality that is fading and trying everything that it can to stay afloat. If you are offended by this thread...I'm not going to apologize for you pointing yourself out by making some sort of derogatory reply.
      Are you going to get around to telling us what exactly it is you're talking about? It will make it a lot easier to tell if you are full of it or not. So far, I just hear big words like "con-serv-a-teevs" and "par-a-diggums" and such. What mentality, what's conservative about it, what's your big concept that's so different?
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      • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
        Jordan

        Do you think that you can change from the inductive to the deductive when making a statement such as you have.

        It is a little difficult to work out what your points of debate actually are.

        A premise, inference and conclusion will help.

        Thanks

        Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author Jordan Stark
    Just because I'm new to WF does not mean that I'm new to IM or a newbie to the computer world in general.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

    They bring an old school mentality to the IM world that simply doesn't belong any more.

    I think that it's time to establish a new standard, a new code of ethics and a new approach to IM.
    I think you're an idiot.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post


      I think you're an idiot.
      she said it...not me.

      your lack of understanding about how you might possibly convince others that your point of view is indeed relevant and may be correct is a much bigger indicator for me of your overall lack of understanding of the IM world than your join date or post count.

      this forum has new ideas floated around all the time. some are good ideas, some are just plain incorrect. but you cant just state that a change is happening and expect many very savvy people to believe you. you must explain yourself much better than you did.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jordan Stark
    I never said anything about uniforms, goose stepping....none of that. I just want to know if people have noticed what i have noticed and what their thoughts are.
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      I never said anything about uniforms, goose stepping....none of that. I just want to know if people have noticed what i have noticed and what their thoughts are.
      You really haven't said what you have noticed - can't you define it any better for us old school fogies?

      And you said you're successful - at what?
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    • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      I never said anything about uniforms, goose stepping....none of that. I just want to know if people have noticed what i have noticed and what their thoughts are.
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      There is a convergence taking place and I want to know what people think about it.
      there is ? i suppose they will let us oldies know when we sit down to sing songs and play bingo in the big hall as we do each Friday afternoon.

      Then again i doubt when we are told about this new convergence taking place, most us wont give two hoots anyway and just go about tried and true conservative methods with the same predictable results.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      You started with a thread that included comments such as

      Being conventional is the most commonly traveled road to mediocrity...

      Get Money and Stop Infecting People With Ignorance...

      I have never released a clickbank product or wso ,,,
      And then launched a WSO.

      Don't know how to tell you this, but that's nothing new here. Jump in with comments meant to portray you as "different" and "expert" - and then start milking for money. Try for an "us against them" mentality.

      A few of us may be old and decrepit and outdated and conventional - but we've seen this sh** before.

      kay
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    • Profile picture of the author bretski
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      I never said anything about uniforms, goose stepping....none of that. I just want to know if people have noticed what i have noticed and what their thoughts are.
      Matt's going to be upset. He is shopping for parrots... and I think that goosestepping will come back in a big way with your following! Try it!

      I do believe that your perception is off if this thread is any indication of which way the wind is blowing. Your statements are vague, at best. It seems to me that you are into using the words "conservative" and "paradigm" a lot which are simple buzzwords that mean nothing without something to back them up.

      In short, if you're not here to help then you're mucking about in the wrong sandbox, I think.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      I never said anything about uniforms, goose stepping....none of that. I just want to know if people have noticed what i have noticed and what their thoughts are.

      You've been so vague that no one really knows what you are implying. How would we notice that you've noticed if we don't really know what exactly it is that you have noticed. Have you just noticed "old people" or is there some specific marketing techniques that you think are old school, and if so, what are they? And what the new techniques that you think are better?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jordan Stark
    Why is everybody assuming that I'm failing or new to this? I know that there are other people out there that see what I see. There are too many people that automatically assume anything "new" to be bad just like old people look at young people and complain.
    I'm 31 years old and have been in this game long enough to know how to earn a decent living from it. One that allows me to travel the world and do as I please.
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      Why is everybody assuming that I'm failing or new to this? I know that there are other people out there that see what I see. There are too many people that automatically assume anything "new" to be bad just like old people look at young people and complain.
      I'm 31 years old and have been in this game long enough to know how to earn a decent living from it. One that allows me to travel the world and do as I please.
      Because no one here seems to know who you are or what you do. Please, enlighten us on the details...
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      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        This is one of the funniest threads I have read on Warrior Forum in ages. I was laughing out loud.

        The original poster sounded his horn with a vague but provocative sounding claim, and despite many, many requests for him to say what the heck he means, he refuses to expand on it.

        To me, that's the very definition of worthless entertainment. So I'm out of this thread...

        But thanks for the laugh.

        Marcia Yudkin
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        • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
          Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post


          The original poster sounded his horn with a vague but provocative sounding claim, and despite many, many requests for him to say what the heck he means, he refuses to expand on it.
          Indeed. I count no less than 12 direct requests as well as references to wanting more details. All ignored.

          I'm bowing out of this thread, too. It was fun for the first few minutes, but I'm tired of playing around in this trollish thread.

          Over and out.
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        • Profile picture of the author cashcow
          Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

          This is one of the funniest threads I have read on Warrior Forum in ages. I was laughing out loud.
          I totally agree and would like to thank the OP for starting it.

          I laughed so hard I spit my false teeth out on the keyboard and while I'd love to stick around to hear about this "new paradigm" I'm afraid that I only get 20 minutes to use this newfangled machine at "the home" and I need to locate my walker so i can take my nap.

          Bretski - Pirates are "old school" I don't think they fit in the new paradigm.
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    • Profile picture of the author Spyder77
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      Why is everybody assuming that I'm failing or new to this? I know that there are other people out there that see what I see. There are too many people that automatically assume anything "new" to be bad just like old people look at young people and complain.
      I'm 31 years old and have been in this game long enough to know how to earn a decent living from it. One that allows me to travel the world and do as I please.
      Here is my problem (I'm not quite 40 yet, though I am somewhat conservative):

      You say you want thoughts, feedback and discussion on the "old school conservative paradigm that is failing" versus the new school of thought you claim to represent and which you further claim is replacing the "old paradigm." Here is the HUGE gaping flaw in all of this:

      After reading 44 posts, including many from you, you have YET to define in any way what exactly this new school paradigm is. Which to be blunt and direct, makes it sound like you're talking out of your ass.

      I say that not to flame you, but a spade is a spade, and there are times when I prefer to cut through the chase and get to the point. If you have one to make, other than this vague undefined "new paradigm" crap you keep repeating (without ever defining it), by all means, here is your open invitation to do just that.

      -Spyder
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      Why is everybody assuming that I'm failing or new to this?
      THIS NAME IS NOT FOR SOMEONE WITH FEW BUCKS IN THEIR POCKET AND CLAIM HE OR SHE IS WEALTHY BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY IT IS HOW BIG YOU ARE GLOBALLY THAT COUNTS WITH YOUR FANCY NAME AND FANCY WEBSITE. NOT HOW MUCH FEW BUCKS YOU KEEP IN THE BANK.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author Jordan Stark
    If you read this post and don't understand or take offense...you're probably one of the "old school" people I'm talking about or are helping to try to maintain things in the IM world that do not help people to become anything more than mediocre.
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      If you read this post and don't understand or take offense...you're probably one of the "old school" people I'm talking about or are helping to try to maintain things in the IM world that do not help people to become anything more than mediocre.
      Now that genuinely hurts...I've got to go email the handful of people I've helped to become successful that they're just mediocre. They are going to be so ticked off at me...:rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells


        TROLL!!!

        This thread reeks of forum trolling! If the OP really wants to make a change perhaps an articulate and intelligent statement identifying the issue would have elicited a far better response from forum members.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      If you read this post and don't understand or take offense...you're probably one of the "old school" people I'm talking about or are helping to try to maintain things in the IM world that do not help people to become anything more than mediocre.
      well i have wasted enough of my time here, back to my old school way of doing things... hope they still work.

      btw...i am 31 and have been doing this for 15 years successfully. and i am proud to have used mostly "old school" methods to build a great business that has nothing to do with how to IM. maybe i will give that a go, everyone else is.
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      If you read this post and don't understand or take offense...you're probably one of the "old school" people I'm talking about or are helping to try to maintain things in the IM world that do not help people to become anything more than mediocre.
      You're not 'new school' in everything - you TROLL like an 'old-school' master!
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
    You know what this thread reminds me of?

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    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      I agree. I'm getting really tired of conservative old school techniques for marketing and trying to get publicity. It's fading. I'm using a new paradigm.

      No need for me to tell you what it is. If you're over the age 30 (such as 31), you're too old to understand anyway.

      Join me in using the new paradigm for marketing!!!!!!!!!!

      .
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      • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
        Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

        If you're over the age 30 (such as 31), you're too old to understand anyway.
        Logan's Run?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jordan Stark
    Okay, okay, okay....who here is actually making a great living doing IM only? How many eBooks have most of you bought? How may courses have you bought? How many different types of software have you bought? How many of them actually yield the results that they claim? Who all of that to you? How long have you been looking for that big break?

    That whole scenario is maintained by the "old school" mentality and paradigm.

    On the other hand you have those that actually put out REAL material and that old mentality will try it's best to hate and point out flaws. Now, I'm not someone that has been screwed by the old mentality...my approach is way too different for them to wrap their minds around. The old mentality cannot "case" me.

    If you don't understand what I'm talking about...refrain from posting. Go to the next post. This clearly isn't for you. But if you want to leave juvenile replies with hilarious pictures and such...do that and point yourself out. I'm only looking for people's thoughts on something specific..IF THEY UNDERSTAND and know what I'm talking about.
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    • Profile picture of the author TiffLee
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      If you don't understand what I'm talking about...refrain from posting. Go to the next post. This clearly isn't for you. But if you want to leave juvenile replies with hilarious pictures and such...do that and point yourself out. I'm only looking for people's thoughts on something specific..IF THEY UNDERSTAND and know what I'm talking about.
      You see, that is the funny thing about this thread...

      Only YOU know what YOU are talking about.

      ... just don't start answering yourself. You already look crazy enough.
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      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
        Originally Posted by TiffLee View Post

        Only YOU know what YOU are talking about.
        That IS the new paradigm!

        ... just don't start answering yourself. You already look crazy enough.
        Only if you ask yourself a question and answer, "Huh?"
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      • Profile picture of the author Jordan Stark
        Exactly what I'm talking about is really obvious if you are outside of the box that so many conservatives in IM are trapped in. Yeah, to some people I might sound "crazy" or "talking out of my ass"<--LOL, but I didn't start this thread FOR those people. This thread is ABOUT those people.
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        • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
          Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

          Exactly what I'm talking about is really obvious if you are outside of the box that so many conservatives in IM are trapped in.
          You could make it even more obvious by typing words that mean things. You said you wanted to discuss this, but all you are doing is avoiding any kind of discussion.

          So let's do it. Let's discuss the **** out of it. I will discuss it WAY past the point that anyone cares. I promise. I'm down. I even brought my own box so that we can talk about what is outside of it.

          Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

          Yeah, to some people I might sound "crazy" or "talking out of my ass"<--LOL, but I didn't start this thread FOR those people. This thread is ABOUT those people.
          So you only want to discuss the new school paradiggum with the people who already know what it is, but you won't tell us what it is. So who exactly are you talking to? Or about? Or something? Or anything?

          Any time now, I know you will tell us.
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      Okay, okay, okay....who here is actually making a great living doing IM only?
      Most of the people replying to this thread have a good amount of success online already. You'd know that if you lurked more and got to know people before starting a thread like this one.

      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      How many eBooks have most of you bought? How may courses have you bought? How many different types of software have you bought? How many of them actually yield the results that they claim?
      Lots. Same answer for all the questions above.

      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      Who all of that to you?
      What?

      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      How long have you been looking for that big break?
      Most people here work to get what they want vs. waiting for a big break. That's kind of the point of the forum is that it's for people who are working towards the success they want.

      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      That whole scenario is maintained by the "old school" mentality and paradigm.
      Buying stuff is the old school mentality? Still don't follow.

      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      On the other hand you have those that actually put out REAL material and that old mentality will try it's best to hate and point out flaws.
      So all old products suck, and only these new school ones are real? I call bull****. Cite examples or shut up.

      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      Now, I'm not someone that has been screwed by the old mentality...my approach is way too different for them to wrap their minds around. The old mentality cannot "case" me.
      Picture me rollin'

      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      If you don't understand what I'm talking about...refrain from posting.
      No one understands what you're saying because you apparently suck at actually telling us what it is you want to discuss. Also, you're not the boss of me, I post where I want. I don't need "The Man" telling me where I can and can't post. I'm new school.

      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      Go to the next post. This clearly isn't for you. But if you want to leave juvenile replies with hilarious pictures and such...do that and point yourself out.
      Point myself out as HILARIOUS.

      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      I'm only looking for people's thoughts on something specific..IF THEY UNDERSTAND and know what I'm talking about.
      THEN SAY SPECIFICALLY WHAT THE HELL IT IS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT! I'm a smart dude. I understand ALL KINDS of wacky stuff. But you have to explain it. No one here is psychic.

      But all you're proving so far is that you have nothing at all to say but empty big words and hollow ideas. OLD BAD. NEW GOOD. ME NEW. BUY ME STUFF.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      ok jordan now we are getting to your point.

      but who is to blame the guy selling people tonight's winning lotto numbers or the guys buying tonight's winning lotto numbers from him?

      you seem to want to blame others for trying to sell their ideas of how to make money fast easy and with no effort when you and many others already know there is no get rich quick scheme that works.

      yes, someone will win the lotto tonight, but the idea that someone has the winning numbers and would sell them to you for $37 should make an intelligent person take a step back and think about what is going on for a second.
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    • Profile picture of the author Spyder77
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      Okay, okay, okay....who here is actually making a great living doing IM only? How many eBooks have most of you bought? How may courses have you bought? How many different types of software have you bought? How many of them actually yield the results that they claim? Who all of that to you? How long have you been looking for that big break?

      That whole scenario is maintained by the "old school" mentality and paradigm.

      On the other hand you have those that actually put out REAL material and that old mentality will try it's best to hate and point out flaws. Now, I'm not someone that has been screwed by the old mentality...my approach is way too different for them to wrap their minds around. The old mentality cannot "case" me.

      If you don't understand what I'm talking about...refrain from posting. Go to the next post. This clearly isn't for you. But if you want to leave juvenile replies with hilarious pictures and such...do that and point yourself out. I'm only looking for people's thoughts on something specific..IF THEY UNDERSTAND and know what I'm talking about.
      Another perfect example of where you describe something you claim is broken, and hold yourself up to symbolize what it is you and your ilk are replacing it with, yet again you FAIL to actually state anything definitive as to what that is.

      My guess is you have absolutely NO CLUE about what this supposed "new paradigm" is, and that's why you can't even outline it.

      -Spyder
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      Okay, okay, okay....who here is actually making a great living doing IM only?

      Have been for 10 years I've been doing it.

      How many eBooks have most of you bought?
      Ebooks? Maybe one or two...Reports? a bunch from WSO's.

      [qoute]How may courses have you bought?
      None...Zip..Zero

      [qoute]How many different types of software have you bought?
      About 20 or so (many that require annual licening renewals).

      How many of them actually yield the results that they claim?
      All of the software I use ($$$$ annually) is vital to my business model.

      [quote]Who all of that to you?{/quote]

      Different companies...from Amazon to Zend.

      How long have you been looking for that big break?
      I stopped looking for that "Big Break" over 30 years ago...

      That whole scenario is maintained by the "old school" mentality and paradigm.

      On the other hand you have those that actually put out REAL material and that old mentality will try it's best to hate and point out flaws. Now, I'm not someone that has been screwed by the old mentality...my approach is way too different for them to wrap their minds around. The old mentality cannot "case" me.
      I don't know anyone that has been screwed by a legitimate Internet Marketer.
      I know folks that have been ripped off by scammers now and then.

      If you don't understand what I'm talking about...refrain from posting.
      Mom...Jordan told me I have to refrain from posting.

      Go to the next post. This clearly isn't for you. But if you want to leave juvenile replies with hilarious pictures and such...do that and point yourself out. I'm only looking for people's thoughts on something specific..IF THEY UNDERSTAND and know what I'm talking about.
      Hey, I resemble that comment...

      Is it true you started a WSO?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dholno
    Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

    I'd like to discuss something that may jolt a few people but I think that it is time that this is addressed.

    There are a lot of people in IM that are over 45 and just got into the "digital thing" a few years ago and have positioned their selves as somewhat of an authority on this site and others. They have an extremely conservative outlook and frame of reference when it comes to IM techniques, methods, etc. They bring an old school mentality to the IM world that simply doesn't belong any more. They are quick to label anyone using techniques and methods that they don't understand as cynical. Because of their irrelevant moral hang-ups...I've seen quite a few people get banned from forums and blacklisted.

    I think that it's time to establish a new standard, a new code of ethics and a new approach to IM. I know that I am not alone on this and if you see what I see, let me know your thoughts.

    Now, I already know that there will be some replies in this thread from some of the old school conservatives that will do exactly what is expected. That's the main reason why their old paradigm is fading...it's predictable.
    Well I am new in WF too and opened a thread a few days ago in the same line. However, I don't agree with you in everything you said.

    "They bring an old school mentality to the IM world that simply doesn't belong any more"

    Sure they translated the old school sales/marketing methods (very US based because in the rest of the world those methods are not effective at all) aiming to the passive consumer in desperate niches and targeting the "pyramid" scheme of building from the top and recycling marketing tools and ideas in ebooks/and how to make $ products,etc to the late cash strapped newcomers in need for some income.

    However, I don't think this is wrong. Is a valid and practical (I don't like it but its irrelevant) way and they have definitively a big piece of the IM pie. Obviously "they are quick to label anyone using techniques and methods that they don't understand as cynical....." because they have to protect their niche. I think is fair and IMO you or anybody should judge them or dismissed because is "old".

    I agree on establishing a new standards and approaches to IM but thats done by competing and creating better ways to do it not by dismissing the "old school" in a public forum.

    I disagree in a new code of ethics, I think you are crossing the line there. Lets better discuss about IM and not ethics because there is a very thin line .... especially in marketing.

    DH
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  • Profile picture of the author Jordan Stark
    This is chess not checkers or pin the tail on the donkey. I'm being vague for a reason and if you don't get it. Move on.
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      This is chess not checkers or pin the tail on the donkey.
      What about Scrabble? I'm really good at Scrabble. Also, what "this" are you even talking about. You still haven't said, and I REALLY REALLY want you to say it.

      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      I'm being vague for a reason and if you don't get it. Move on.
      That's a terrible way to have a discussion. I don't get it. You could explain it and I totally would get it, I promise. I'm totally smart. Straight A's in school and everything.

      And no, I won't move on. This isn't your forum, buddy. It's all of ours. You play in the sandbox, you play with everyone. And besides, I'm having fun. Aren't you?
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      This is chess not checkers or pin the tail on the donkey. I'm being vague for a reason and if you don't get it. Move on.
      Let me guess... I can join your inner circle for a tiny investment of just $77? And then you'll reveal all your black hat secrets to me in a bonus eBook?

      So, you're criticizing the "old school" mentality of selling systems and eBooks and memberships to promote your own? Because everyone else is wrong, and only the elite few who buy your stuff will know the real secrets to making money online?
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      Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      This is chess
      No, son, this is go.

      It's about territory. There is no "check" or "checkmate." There is only control.

      Black cannot live in this corner of the board. Your joseki is weak.
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      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author Spyder77
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      This is chess not checkers or pin the tail on the donkey. I'm being vague for a reason and if you don't get it. Move on.
      This isn't chess. You've made your opening move. The "conservative old school" has replied. We've waited on your next move to explain what that is. Instead you keep touching the piece without ever moving it. In chess touch=move, you haven't moved, you instead keep taking your hand off the piece. That costs you game.

      Stark-Forum
      0-1

      Time to put up or shut up.

      -Spyder
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    • Profile picture of the author T.R. McCarroll
      OP I appreciate you being so esoteric. Annoyed now at the lack of clarity in this thread
      ...um must be my age.
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      • Profile picture of the author bretski
        LOL! The wso has already been published and it's all this new paradigm stuff that I've never heard of before! Twitter, mobile marketing and this thing called Craigslist...??? I've never heard of that before! Earthshattering! Smell that, folks? That's sarcasm...
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    'old school' still works on 'old customers, (not to mention, human nature has not changed much in centuries). Few use just a single funnel. You may find other sites targeting other clients in a different manner by the same business. Don't judge a book by one cover, most books these days get released with multiole covers designed to appeal to different personality types. Sales funnels on line need be no different.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    I think the site you put in your forum profile says EVERYTHING I need to know about you. Bye Bye!
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Glad to see that being a pompous ass isn't restricted to any particular age.

    I know....predictable, right?

    Hypocrites are rarely aware of their own hypocrisy, but trust me, you qualify. There is an age-old paradigm and you are proving it with your post. That paradigm is that the youth will always think the "older genration" should just get out of the way.

    See? You are actually doing the EXACT thing you seem to be speaking out against.

    This wins my vote for funniest thread of the weak [SIC].

    All the best,
    Michael
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    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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  • Profile picture of the author GregSilva
    It would help if you once again explained what you are talking about.

    Although it probably is the wrong forum to try to discuss this!
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  • Profile picture of the author entrprnr
    Necessary hotlink in 3... 2... 1...

    Signature
    Often the difference between a successful person and a failure is not one has better abilities or ideas, but the courage that one has to bet on one’s ideas, to take a calculated risk – and to act.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    Just went to your website - you're a hypocrite and a troll and obviously there's a WSO or other promotion about to land.

    Get a life...
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  • Profile picture of the author lesterlim85
    Hmm.. So what exactly are you talking about? What new paradigms or whatever new shift in the IM world? OMG, I'm only 26 but I totally can't understand you. What's got into me? Am I conservative or what?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jordan Stark
    No WSO or Promotion is about to land. You old school cats think that you have me cased or figured out. You always think that you know everything and have seen everything. Just stop thinking.
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      No WSO or Promotion is about to land. You old school cats think that you have me cased or figured out. You always think that you know everything and have seen everything. Just stop thinking.
      YOU JUST ADDED IT TO YOUR SIGNATURE - We're not blind, you know. We have you totally cased. We have you totally figured out. We have your number. We know all, see all, and GOD FORBID we should stop thinking. If we did, maybe your BS would start making sense.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Actually - your WSO link just landed in your signature. Surprise, surprise.

      You are UNIQUE....just like everyone else.
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      Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
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    • Profile picture of the author entrprnr
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      No WSO or Promotion is about to land. You old school cats think that you have me cased or figured out. You always think that you know everything and have seen everything. Just stop thinking.
      Now we can't even think?

      You've successfully painted a big old bulls-eye on your chest.

      I think it would serve everyone's interests if this thread were closed.

      I know I'm getting back to work.... but thanks for encouraging me to up my post count! Trying to get PMs as they're so valuable when you can't use them and so useless when you can. :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by Jordan Stark View Post

      No WSO or Promotion is about to land. You old school cats think that you have me cased or figured out. You always think that you know everything and have seen everything. Just stop thinking.
      so of us use THINKING as a way to build our business and make good logical business decisions... i think i will continue with my old school methods of thinking.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Jordan, umm...I don't know how to tell you this, but umm....

    Hype is NOT a "new paradigm"

    You even remmbered the "old school" sales letter format and "old school" marketing cliches. Good job.

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Jordan, thank you for this entertaining...




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