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16 years ago

Hi Cherilyn,

Do you mean by including 3, 6 etc bullets in one place, then go with some text, then again bullets with 3, 6..?

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Cherilyn Woodhouse

16 years ago

Any multiple of 3 seems to work, but I'd be sure to test going above 12 (I've never gone above that, because it seems to be overkill - but it would be interesting to test!!)

On that note, bonuses in 3's seem to work, too. And testimonials... 3 is just a good number in copy I think.

You can include all your bullets in once place if you want, just add to them until there is a multiple of 3 and it seems to work better.

- Cheryl

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Tony Dean

16 years ago

I was just thinking I should have more bullets only the other day.

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Cherilyn Woodhouse

16 years ago

There seems to only be one time that adding bullets is a bad thing...

If you're a good guy, and the bad guy is doing the adding.

I would encourage it Tony - seems to work for my clients!

n- Cheryl

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DougBarger

16 years ago

Hi Cherilyn,

It's very interesting you reveal this secret after your test results and the results in your conversion increases too.

The power of threes stems back from ancient times and is throughout much of the scriptures too.

Spirit, Soul and Body. (3)

For instance, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Resurrection of Jesus Christ on the Third Day.

3 were crucified on the cross 3 days earlier.

Paul had a vision of being caught up to the 3rd Heaven.

Heaven, Earth and Hell.

Parables with:

3 measures of meal and 3 stewards of the talents.

3 Hebrews not burned in the fire, the chains burned away, no smell of smoke.

3 that bear witness on earth: water, blood and truth.

3 that bear witness in heaven:Father, Son and Spirit

In the mouth of 3 witnesses let every word be established.

"Where 2 or 3 of you are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst."

For thine is the kingdom, power and glory forever. (3)

There are many other prophetic references for the number 3 too and it is very interesting that you have posted this because you are now celebrating your third year as a warrior!

Congratulations and thanks for the sharing.

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Cherilyn Woodhouse 16 years ago

Doug - I didn't even think of the third anniversary, but come to think of it, that's pretty neat. Well, if 3 bullets means more profits, lets hope 3 years means more success!!

Neat post. Many examples.

- Cheryl
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Jelasco

16 years ago

Originally Posted by DougBarger

Hi Cherilyn,

It's very interesting you reveal this secret after your test results and the results in your conversion increases too.

The power of threes stems back from ancient times and is throughout much of the scriptures too.

But do they talk about multiples of 3?

I find it interesting that 12 bullet points would do better than 11 or 13, and so on, since that's so many that you can't tell the exact number without counting them.

If 12 converts better than 11, maybe something in the extra bullet did the trick.

Statistically, how many times would this have to be tested to know that it's the bullets being a multiple of 3 rather than something else?

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Cherilyn Woodhouse 16 years ago

Jelasco - 12 would do better than 11 or 13 because it has nothing to do with counting them, and everything to do with RHYTHM. It is the rhythm created by a multiple of 3 that keeps the reader reading the bullets, that obviously has an effect on conversion rate.

At least, that's my theory on it. I could be dead wrong.

- Cheryl
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- Frank Bruno 16 years ago
  
  My buddy who I contracted with his compnay to build my lagoon style pool told me while I was helping with some landscaping, that planting bushes and trees in three's, rather than pairs, has a much better visual affect.
  
  He told me that he learned it from a lanscape architect.
  
  So Yes I can understand how bullet points listed in threes could be just as effective.
  
  Frank Bruno
  
  Thanks
  
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zapseo

16 years ago

Okay.

So, let's say, for grins, that you have a sparkling 5% conversion rate.
how many more sales is a 2% increase in sales?
so, .05 x .02 = .0010.
In other words, 1 additional sale in 1000 visits.

I have to wonder if there's enough data to have sufficient
statistical confidence levels that what you say is actually
a cause-effect relationship or simply noise.

Live Joyfully!

Judy

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Cherilyn Woodhouse 16 years ago

Judy - I'm sorry, I didn't explain that right - the conversion rate went up by 2%. The original rate had been 1.7% or something close, it jumped up to 3.7%.

I'm just too tired to do the proper math. But thats a 100%+ increase in that particular instance with no other changes, and I've seen similar (albeit slightly less spectacular) results in other niches.

Hope that helps!

- Cheryl
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- zapseo 16 years ago
  
  Ahhhh!!! Yes, indeed!
  
  Double the conversion rate, for better than double the profits, since
  your fixed costs are already covered in the first 1.7% (we hope, anyway!)
  
  Okay!
  
  Congrats! And thanks for the info.
  
  Thanks
  
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King Seesar

16 years ago

Or did you mean that there was a full 2 percentile increase, meaning your would have gone from 5% to 7%? That would be much more attractive! He he!

Regardless, the idea of bullets is always a great suggestion and I have to say that i usually group mine in 5s, so switch to a 3 then 2 (or add something so I get a 3 then3 situation) and see what happens. Why not? Worth a shot!

Thanks for the tip and I'll post if I see a change in conversions.

Cheers!
Will

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Cherilyn Woodhouse 16 years ago

Excellent. And now, for sleep, after 37 hours awake. Zzzzz...

- Cheryl
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zapseo

16 years ago

Originally Posted by King Seesar

Or did you mean that there was a full 2 percentile increase, meaning your would have gone from 5% to 7%? That would be much more attractive! He he!

Regardless, the idea of bullets is always a great suggestion and I have to say that i usually group mine in 5s, so switch to a 3 then 2 (or add something so I get a 3 then3 situation) and see what happens. Why not? Worth a shot!

Thanks for the tip and I'll post if I see a change in conversions.

Cheers!
Will

I'll try and bold-face my comments next time.
5% to 7%, in terms of additional income, isn't as impressive as going from 1.7% to 3.7%.
Going from 5% to 7% you aren't doubling your revenues. (Though going from 5% to 7% is nothing to sneeze at.)

Going from 1.7% to 3.7% you are more than doubling your revenues, and therefore, your profits.

Live JoyFully!

Judy Kettenhofen, Profit Strategist, Numbers Analyst & Copywriter
NextDay Copy

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King Seesar

16 years ago

Originally Posted by zapseo

I'll try and bold-face my comments next time.
5% to 7%, in terms of additional income, isn't as impressive as going from 1.7% to 3.7%.
Going from 5% to 7% you aren't doubling your revenues. (Though going from 5% to 7% is nothing to sneeze at.)

Going from 1.7% to 3.7% you are more than doubling your revenues, and therefore, your profits.

Live JoyFully!

Judy Kettenhofen, Profit Strategist, Numbers Analyst & Copywriter
NextDay Copy

Doh! Right you are Judy! Although perhaps I would venture to say that I would rather have a 7% conversation rate over a 3.7% one, but that probably goes without saying... he he... (for the same amount of traffic anyway)

And all this is semi dependent on the amount of traffic you get. Conversion rates of 3.7% for a site that gets 100 hits a day wisn't the same as 1.7% for a site that gets 1000 hits a day. Still, the trick is merging all the methods within reason of time and money spent and staying on top of them, so I am still off to change my sites and see what happens.

Cheers Judy and Cherilyn!
Will

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King Seesar

16 years ago

Originally Posted by zapseo

I'll try and bold-face my comments next time.
5% to 7%, in terms of additional income, isn't as impressive as going from 1.7% to 3.7%.
Going from 5% to 7% you aren't doubling your revenues. (Though going from 5% to 7% is nothing to sneeze at.)

Going from 1.7% to 3.7% you are more than doubling your revenues, and therefore, your profits.

Live JoyFully!

Judy Kettenhofen, Profit Strategist, Numbers Analyst & Copywriter
NextDay Copy

Doh! Right you are Judy! Although perhaps I would venture to say that I would rather have a 7% conversation rate over a 3.7% one, but that probably goes without saying... he he... (for the same amount of traffic anyway)

And all this is semi dependent on the amount of traffic you get. Conversion rates of 3.7% for a site that gets 100 hits a day wisn't the same as 1.7% for a site that gets 1000 hits a day. Still, the trick is merging all the methods within reason of time and money spent and staying on top of them, so I am still off to change my sites and see what happens.

Cheers Judy and Cherilyn!
Will

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King Seesar 16 years ago

Sorry folks! I have no idea why it posted this entry twice! Just ignore one or the other one. They are the same...

Thanks!
Will
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Colin Evans

16 years ago

Hi Cherilyn,

I remember reading a tip about grouping sidebar menu links in threes which apparently resulted in visitors reading more pages... Looks to be something in this "list of three"...

I can't remember the details (where are those notes when you need them?), and if I remember correctly it's to do with absorbing information "at a glance" and not overwhelming the reader with too many options/ideas at one time.

Thanks
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ibringjoy 16 years ago

This is certainly an interesting fact! Every little bit helps, and in this case, it could even double some of our conversions. I'll take that any day!

I had been striving for 7 bullets, because 7 is a good number. Some lady on the radio who is a numerology expert said that 7 is a good number. 7 is also a good number in the Bible.

The number 8, however, is considered the money number.

I never tested how the number of bullets affected conversion. It's great to know this trend of 3s. Thanks for letting us know.

Kathryn
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- King Seesar 16 years ago
  
  Okay folks!
  
  I just rearranged my review sites to have thing in threes (or at least in three where applicable - all initial bullets and lists are now in threes). Five sites, three niches.
  
  I'll post my dramatic increase in conversions as they happen!
  
  Thanks Cherilyn!
  More soon,
  Will
  
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ghoti

16 years ago

Thanks for the tip! There's a fairly well known copywriting rule about 3's when used in a list of benefits, eg. "faster, cheaper and easier to use" or "bigger, harder and stronger!"...
well, you know.

Never thought of applying that rule to bullets, though. Great idea.

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gjabiz

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Cherilyn Lester

I grouped my bullets in threes. I've yet to figure out the psychology behind this - maybe one of you has this insight.

- Cherilyn

Cherilyn,

There is a definite psychological reason...but TESTING is what gives you ammunition. We have 35 years and mountains of evidence that says you are right...almost.

Try alternating 3 bullet points, 3 short paragraphs, 3 ideas, with FIVE.

And highlight the one in the middle with some eye candy...something that pulls the eye to the middle bullet point.

You could use BOLD.
YOU MAY WANT to ty to make it a little bit longer.
You could highlight it.

Not enough time now to get into the CADENCE of subvocalization (poet's know all about it) and how it effects your brain waves.

Also, ask any LANDSCAPER in your neighborhood why they plant in 3s and 5s and not in even numbers. It has to do with upsetting balance on purpose, to force the eye to look where you want it too.

There is OVERKILL in using too many bullets, unless that is your intent...to SHOW a lot of information that mostly gets skimmed over BEFORE the committment to buy, but often gets read when the product is delivered or after purchase.

IF your buyer can find just ONE bullet point that isn't in your product, it is grounds for a refund and/or a slap in the face.

Bullet points are used to UPSET and Interrupt with purposeful intention the reader's unconscious cadence and to bypass certain CONSCIOUS elements that could prevent them from buying...add emotion to your bullet points and watch another increase.

gjabiz

Three is good
Five is good
ALTERNATE THEM FOR MAXIMUM PROFITS
Evoke emotion-Bitches! (used for example sake)
Make them purposeful

Thanks
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lakshaybehl 16 years ago

Thanks for that Cherilyn!

I'd like to add that for a product in the personality development niche, No. 4 worked best for me.

I split tested 2,3,4,5,6,7

And the salesletter with 4 testimonials, 4 case studies, 4 bullets, 4 ebooks and 4 audios worked the best for me.

Although I didn't really chage the contents of the product, I had to repackage it in the end!
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- King Seesar 16 years ago
  
  Hi there all,
  
  Brief update: Not a single conversion on my sites since I changed groupings to threes! Yikes! I am going to give it another period of time, though, to see what happens. Maybe another week or so...
  
  Just an update. I assume as with all internet oriented things, there is a ramp up time involved. I also changed several of my random ads and discussions in articles in various locations to groupings of threes when presenting ideas that related to enticing a reader to do something like click on a link or spend their money.
  
  As before, I'll post when something happens. Fingers crossed!
  
  Thanks again Cherylin!
  Will
  
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  Jason Mathews 16 years ago
  
  So...what other numbers have you tried?
  
  Maybe grouping them in 4 works better, or 5 or 6 or.......
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  Ross Dalangin 16 years ago
  
  I don't believe on this but it happens. Most of my sites use this and the conversion was really good. We split test the sales letter but not the bullets, maybe we will need to implement this to all of our sites to see if this is really true. No harm in trying. Thanks.
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  johntanyishin 16 years ago
  
  Perhaps our hearts are beating in multiple of 3 as well, it's just that we don't know. =)
  
  Is that some kind of coincidence?
  
  Anyway, I just notice when I knock on doors, I knock 3 times, no more no less.
  
  JTYS
  
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  jasonl70 16 years ago
  
  gjabiz - that was a pretty cool post..
  I particularly liked the part about upsetting balance on purpose.. I once dated an interior designer who used to do this - she'd even do subtle things like make sure all the furniture in a room was square with a wall (for example, she'd pull one end of a couch out a inch further from the wall).
  
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