Warning regarding Paypal

54 replies
I woke up this morning to discover Paypal has suspended my account! The reason is, I have just launched a new site selling an ebook and Paypal has seen a whole stream of payments coming into my account.

Quote from Paypal's email: "We have observed activity in this account that is unusual or potentially high risk."

This is ludicrous and I guess others have experienced it with Paypal.

The lesson is, if you are going to do any serious business online, avoid Paypal. I'll be moving as soon as I can to some other provider.
#paypal #warning
  • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
    Originally Posted by plainwords View Post

    I woke up this morning to discover Paypal has suspended my account! The reason is, I have just launched a new site selling an ebook and Paypal has seen a whole stream of payments coming into my account.

    Quote from Paypal's email: "We have observed activity in this account that is unusual or potentially high risk."

    This is ludicrous and I guess others have experienced it with Paypal.

    The lesson is, if you are going to do any serious business online, avoid Paypal. I'll be moving as soon as I can to some other provider.

    Actually the lesson is if you know your going to get unusual activity tell your payment processor ahead of time.

    doesnt matter if its paypal or any other payment processor the result will be the same...frozen account
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    • Profile picture of the author dshipman
      Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

      Actually the lesson is if you know your going to get unusual activity tell your payment processor ahead of time.

      doesnt matter if its paypal or any other payment processor the result will be the same...frozen account
      Yes, I read about doing this a few weeks ago. You have to give Paypal a heads-up if you expect your payments to increase in the near future.

      I don't know if Paypal includes that info in their FAQ, but they should.
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    • Profile picture of the author ProfessorSeo
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

      Actually the lesson is if you know your going to get unusual activity tell your payment processor ahead of time.

      doesnt matter if its paypal or any other payment processor the result will be the same...frozen account
      That wont work they still will close your account! Paypal is very unrealiable when it comes to making a huge amount of money online. I spoke with them before I launched my website and explained what I was selling and how much money I will be making

      They asked for some documentation and i faxed it to them! When my site launched they froze my account and said that I was a risk even though I spoke with them and they said it was ok!

      I lost $10,000 because of them!
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    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

      Actually the lesson is if you know your going to get unusual activity tell your payment processor ahead of time.
      For reason that doesn't seem to help with PayPal. Plenty of horror stories just from Warriors on that issue.

      .
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      • Profile picture of the author LB
        Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

        For reason that doesn't seem to help with PayPal. Plenty of horror stories just from Warriors on that issue.

        .
        Correct as far as I've ever seen.

        The "lockdown" process from Paypal is automated and I have never heard that it can be adjusted or turned off. I've known of more than one person who called Paypal multiple times to notify and still got limited within hours of their launch. The security department only gets involved once the account is locked.
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    • Profile picture of the author DrAlexMV
      Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

      Actually the lesson is if you know your going to get unusual activity tell your payment processor ahead of time.

      doesnt matter if its paypal or any other payment processor the result will be the same...frozen account
      I agree, you cannot blame a good and safe service for doing their job correctly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Suthan M
    Chill, this happens in any organization any companies around the world.. not just Paypal..

    in your case, all you got to do is get in touch with a rep, and speak to them about your biz. Show some proof, and all will be awesome and great again.

    I have been in so many limitations already i have lost count :-p

    EDIT: http://www.asianlunatic.org/myuntold...capeartist.pdf
    Here is a free direct link to a report that i made circa 2007 about this topic..
    nothing to sell there for sure. hope it helps you out :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Victoria Gates
    Don't panic, this is normal to prevent fraud.. not everyone has integrity and they have to protect themselves although it IS a hassle yes.

    Just contact them. I am sure they will resolve your issue.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Have you talked to them about this yet? Maybe it wasn't the "stream of payments". It could have been the e-book or how the e-book was delivered or maybe some other violation of their TOS that you're unaware of. I wouldn't stop using them just for that reason.

    I think the bigger point here is don't rely on Pay Pal as your sole way of accepting payments.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author EugeneA
    Better safe than sorry. There was really no harm done. As mentioned above, next time simply let them know.
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    • Profile picture of the author plainwords
      Yes, actually I have chilled out a bit now and can see it from Paypal's viewpoint. My natural reaction is to get hot under the collar about things like this but I'm sure it will get sorted.
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      • Profile picture of the author sylviad
        Originally Posted by plainwords View Post

        Yes, actually I have chilled out a bit now and can see it from Paypal's viewpoint. My natural reaction is to get hot under the collar about things like this but I'm sure it will get sorted.
        You have to consider that Paypal will get suspicious when there is unusual activity in an account. Not only are they protecting themselves, but you too. Imagine if someone else were using your account and had a ton of issues with people who bought from THEM. It would reflect on you and could even leave you holding the bag to pay them for refunds... or possibly some other devious crimes.

        Personally, I'd be glad if Paypal were so conscientious, even if it can be a bit of a pain when it happens.

        But... A Word of Warning!

        When you do get such notices from Paypal, make sure it actually is from them. Scammers use those types of emails regularly to hack into your account. I've received several telling me that my account has been suspended because of 'unusual' or 'suspicious' activity', with a link to go there to fix it. If you roll your mouse over the link in the email, you'll see that it's not a PayPal URL at all. Don't click the link. Go directly to PayPal to check your account. In my case at least, it's always been a false alarm.

        Sylvia
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  • Profile picture of the author ContentMachine
    What are some of the other good options besides paypal?
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  • Profile picture of the author MoneyMonkey
    @ ProfessorSEO Paypal is a legitimate business and won't freeze your account without adequate justification - if they do you have legal recourse - providing you are actually legitmate and above board shouldn't be a problem.

    @Plainwords - good luck and wishing you a speedy return to normal business
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    • Profile picture of the author rts2271
      We could use a paypal sticky with the known gotchas on it. But this one is not just paypal but any merchant system you use.
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    • Profile picture of the author ProfessorSeo
      Banned
      Originally Posted by MoneyMonkey View Post

      @ ProfessorSEO Paypal is a legitimate business and won't freeze your account without adequate justification - if they do you have legal recourse - providing you are actually legitmate and above board shouldn't be a problem.

      @Plainwords - good luck and wishing you a speedy return to normal business
      The answer they gave me is that I am making too much money too fast! They then stated that I was a High Risk because I'm making to much money.

      I was selling cell phone accessories

      So what would you tell them to get your account back active?
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    Pay Pal is pretty reasonable if you just go to your personal rep and let them know what is going on.

    I have had very few freezes over the years and the ones i have had was more of because of the countries the money was comming from. Beleive it or not ... New Zealand can actually send up a red flag. I know this because i have a partner on some ventures from Aukland and we had to do some extensive documentation when the bigger bucks started rolling in.

    A few things we have found to help .... get a refund request ... give it up .... always keep a good percentage of your money in PP. It makes them nervouse when people clean their accounts daily or even weekly.

    Still the number one thing for us has been communication with our rep

    Troy
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    • Profile picture of the author athenistic
      PayPal has frozen my account on more than one occasion, and it is very much automated by their security audit software. It's not difficult to get it unlocked, but be prepared to talk to a few representatives.

      1. Call them up, and try to get as much information as you can out of the front-line support rep. It probably won't be much - that person will probably only be able to tell you that the security software tripped and they don't have access to that.

      2. You'll be passed on to an account representative, who probably won't be able to divulge anything more, as account reps don't have any access to the security software either. Note that this software does not tell most of the call center staff why your account was shut down - just that it was.

      3. Politely tell them that you have used their services for x years, and you would appreciate (read: insist) on a talking to from somebody who can deal with your issue.

      4. If there is no one immediately available, you will get a call back within 24 hours, but more likely within in two. This is the person that can and, as long as there is nothing fraudulent going on, will get your account back up and running for you. Just take your time and go through everything with him/her.

      This is the same process I have to go through every time anything happens to my account - from a sudden influx of sales to my credit card expiring. It's just the nature of the beast.

      It might seem a little overzealous, but all in all, it reminds me that nobody is going to be getting into my account (and subsequently my bank accounts and all my credit cards) without setting that damned software off.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rick Wilson
      Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips View Post

      ... always keep a good percentage of your money in PP. It makes them nervouse when people clean their accounts daily or even weekly.
      I find it interesting that many people mention this but I find it weird that PP gets nervous about this when most regular merchant accounts "batch out" the monies EACH period to one's bank account. They don't seem to be overly worried about that particular aspect.

      I pretty much clear my PP acct out at least weekly but I generally do leave a little bit in my PP acct to cover possible refunds, tho. That's because it takes 2-3 days to transfer monies between my bank acct and my PP acct here in the U.S..

      FWIW ...


      Rick Wilson aka CorpRebel
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Rick Wilson View Post


        I pretty much clear my PP acct out at least weekly but I generally do leave a little bit in my PP acct to cover possible refunds, tho. That's because it takes 2-3 days to transfer monies between my bank acct and my PP acct here in the U.S..
        I withdraw most of my money every week, usually leaving only $300 to $500 in there. Since most of my products are less than $50 that amount would cover more refunds than I have had in all the years I've used Paypal combined. Seems to me that may well have something to do with it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
          We may all need to start taking personal checks lol
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          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
            Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips View Post

            We may all need to start taking personal checks lol
            lol - I used to. Bouncy, bounce, bounce ended that.
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            • Profile picture of the author Goldenboy
              It's not Paypal that does that, it is normal and don't panic. They are just monitoring cash movements from your account, and you just have to inform reps from Paypal about your business and the movements of cash to your account. They just froze your account because it is unusual probably in your account for that flow of cash.
              Just send a message to Paypal about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mixengineer
    Just call them and tell them what it was. If they want you to fax something then fax it and get your money back.
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  • Profile picture of the author azmanar
    Hi,

    This is very disheartening and sickening.

    Even the pre-warning given to PayPal is not working. THIS IS REALLY UNSTABLE FOR LEGITIMATE BUSINESS.

    How would anyone launch good products without risking PayPal freezing and closing their account?

    And then despite having enough and good track records with PayPal, you still get frozen and had to do the communications over and over again to get your account back on. AND THEY ARE MAKING MONEY OUT OF YOU. You make them rich, yet you allow their constant abuse of you.

    Isn't this madness?

    Even Dr E.Brian Rose - with all his credibility and track record got his PAYPAL FROZEN with more $50,000 in it.

    What else can one do? Should one just drop PayPal totally out of the loop and be getting some other solutions?

    There is nothing more troubling in e-business than having a fickle and unstable Payment Gateway.

    Getting more absurd by the day.
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by azmanar View Post

      This is very disheartening and sickening.
      I'm sorry, but if you were running a similar business you would do the exact same thing. They would NOT be in business very long if they just ignored any potential problems in order to make life easier for the vendors. It is THEIR reputation they are trying to maintain... and rightly so.

      Originally Posted by azmanar View Post

      Even the pre-warning given to PayPal is not working. THIS IS REALLY UNSTABLE FOR LEGITIMATE BUSINESS.
      As I have said in previous posts, a pre-warning does not mean anything. Even someone who is running a scam can ring up Paypal and warn them about the influx of money they will be receiving... Paypal will still freeze your account if they see unusual activity.

      Originally Posted by azmanar View Post

      Even Dr E.Brian Rose - with all his credibility and track record got his PAYPAL FROZEN with more $50,000 in it.
      C'mon, do you think Paypal have ever heard of Dr E. Brian Rose? Great guy but that name means nothing to them. Besides, even some of the best crooks were 'nice guys' until they robbed that bank. Credibility has nothing to do with this.

      Originally Posted by azmanar View Post

      What else can one do? Should one just drop PayPal totally out of the loop and be getting some other solutions?
      You can go and find another payment processor but be warned, unless you are using a service like Clickbank that somewhat understands the IM industry, you will still get questioned if you start receiving a large amount of money in a short amount of time.

      Originally Posted by azmanar View Post

      Getting more absurd by the day.
      The only thing getting more absurd is all these comments everyday by people who obviously don't understand how REAL business works. Paypal is a business and just like any other business they have to eliminate as much risk as possible. If they don't then they lose their trust as a payment processor and people go elsewhere.

      When big sums of money are involved it is necessary to take action and ask questions later. This is why they freeze accounts 'on the spot' as soon as they see any suspicious activity or patterns... but it's not to say you cannot have it unfrozen.

      Do you really think all these small time IM'ers are a big part of Paypal's business? Hell no, they are little fish to Paypal and thus why Paypal has no hesitation in taking action if they need to.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

        The only thing getting more absurd is all these comments everyday by people who obviously don't understand how REAL business works. Paypal is a business and just like any other business they have to eliminate as much risk as possible. If they don't then they lose their trust as a payment processor and people go elsewhere.

        When big sums of money are involved it is necessary to take action and ask questions later. This is why they freeze accounts 'on the spot' as soon as they see any suspicious activity or patterns... but it's not to say you cannot have it unfrozen.

        Do you really think all these small time IM'ers are a big part of Paypal's business? Hell no, they are little fish to Paypal and thus why Paypal has no hesitation in taking action if they need to.
        Will, you just saved me a whole lot of typing - most people just have no clue.

        Thankful.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    I'm not the expert on this but just doing a little math here. I believe buyers have up to 60 days to request a refund through Paypal.

    I'm willing to bet that Paypal looks at your average daily balances each day for the past 60 days. Then they know how much they stand to loose if every one refunds.

    So take a look at your average monthly income for the past 60 days and keep that much in your account at all times. It might be hard and also might not fit your business model but I'm willing to bet you greatly reduce the risk of problems.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dustin Goode
    So if Paypal puts a freeze on your account, do incoming orders still get processed, or does it stop the service completely? That would be very hurtful to a launch of a successful WSO if paypal just stopped accepting payment!

    I would hope they keep taking the payments, but you just can't get your money out until you sort it out with them.
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  • Profile picture of the author LaLaLives
    Were you accepting a lot of payments less than $3.99?

    I was looking for something else on their site last week and remember reading that you're supposed to enter a special agreement with them if you're accepting micro-payments. The amount listed above was the amount for businesses in the U.S., but I believe it was less for most other countries. I'm going by memory, so please forgive me if I don't have the amount quite right, but I know I'm close.

    When I read it, I wondered if this may be why some accounts are suspended. I'd never heard about the need for a separate agreement and I bet others haven't either.

    Regardless of the reason, I hope your funds are released soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    After what happened to Rob ... beginning to think it really doesn't matter how much you leave in .... if you are into digital IM info ... you are in danger
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  • Profile picture of the author Kate_Kruz
    I have had this happen to me once when I tried to transfer all my payments into my bank they froze my account, I contacted paypal after waiting for 30 mins to talk with a rep and discussed what I was selling, where and how then they clearly told me to leave at least half of the money in my account to cover refund requests. Once I got off the phone my account was restored and now I always leave a percentage of my earnings in paypal and I have never had any problems since.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary Ning Lo
    I always contact them beforehand when launching a new product.

    Never had any issues.

    Cheers,

    ~Gary
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Walker
    This is the very reason that many people gets illegally made accounts.
    And it really is getting annoying and unstable for us IMers.
    Most of my friends have more then 10 accounts for safety measures.
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  • Profile picture of the author OneOfaKindLC
    Wow, ok I'll remember this. Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sardent
    Covering refunds.

    Might be plausible if you could issue refunds from your paypal balance when your account is limited.

    Too bad you can't.
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    • Profile picture of the author spilly1
      Does this really happen? I thought paypal was the guru. What other options do you have for universal payment providers?
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  • Profile picture of the author Karen Connell
    When my account was frozen, all it took was a brief conversation with their customer service and it was restored.

    In my case they were very helpful.

    Karen
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  • Profile picture of the author GoldenGlovez
    You absolutely need to contact Paypal before launching a new product or service. Make sure your account is set as a merchant account as well before you begin taking sales. Within 24 hours of my sales rolling in I had a Paypal account manager on the line (THEY CALLED ME!) wanting to verify and ask how much I'm expecting in sales each month. She congratulated me and said in the future if I'm expecting a large increase in monthly volume to just give them a quick call and let them know (She also mentioned it wasn't required but if I want to avoid any possible problems with their security system, it's better to be preemptive).
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  • Profile picture of the author sakthiganesh
    I hope this is happens due to misunderstanding. You can better to contact Paypal Support to reconsider. Paypal has grown as matured payment gateway ,you can not simply ignore their service.

    Remember " Know devils better than unknown Angels"
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  • Profile picture of the author azmanar
    Hi,

    I hope the guys with bold statements about how great PayPal in here be looking at this thread.

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...your-help.html

    Another friend doing legit biz had just been victimized.
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    You will get a similar reaction from most payment processors whether
    it's a third-party processor or even your own merchant account.

    They have to mitigate risk as much as possible. Some of the things
    that they see would cause your skin to crawl. Heck I've seen $18k
    chargebacks on purchases that never happened... and my bank PAID
    the chargeback because money flows both ways in a traditional
    merchant account. I've also seen hundreds of bogus transactions
    attempted and fail within under an hour... as a merchant account
    was probed.

    I have friends who won't even accept credit cards any more because
    they don't like the risk.

    Paypal has frozen my account several times, but always for good
    reasons, and although it was an inconvenience, it's a cost of
    doing business.

    I do advocate having several backups, but all-in-all, I think that
    Paypal is a pretty good deal.

    As was already pointed out, it's a good idea to give your processor
    advance notice if you expect an increase in volume. You also want
    to let them know if you'll be traveling, since they do notice WHERE
    you access your account from.

    Willie
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      Not only does Paypal know if your accessing your account from a different location, they also know if you've changed your hardware as well.

      Paypal wants merchants to treat them like business partners and not just some payment processor.

      Originally Posted by Willie Crawford View Post

      You will get a similar reaction from most payment processors whether
      it's a third-party processor or even your own merchant account.

      They have to mitigate risk as much as possible. Some of the things
      that they see would cause your skin to crawl. Heck I've seen $18k
      chargebacks on purchases that never happened... and my bank PAID
      the chargeback because money flows both ways in a traditional
      merchant account. I've also seen hundreds of bogus transactions
      attempted and fail within under an hour... as a merchant account
      was probed.

      I have friends who won't even accept credit cards any more because
      they don't like the risk.

      Paypal has frozen my account several times, but always for good
      reasons, and although it was an inconvenience, it's a cost of
      doing business.

      I do advocate having several backups, but all-in-all, I think that
      Paypal is a pretty good deal.

      As was already pointed out, it's a good idea to give your processor
      advance notice if you expect an increase in volume. You also want
      to let them know if you'll be traveling, since they do notice WHERE
      you access your account from.

      Willie
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  • Profile picture of the author Wryker
    Alertpay I hear is 10 times better than paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    That's great Willy, but what do you do when paypal tells you to stuff it and kicks you to the curb?

    I now can no longer offer paypal as a payment option, at least, not without a massive restructuring of my business - new partnerships, new ein's, new bank accounts, new addresses...etc.

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      That's great Willy, but what do you do when paypal tells you to stuff it and kicks you to the curb?

      I now can no longer offer paypal as a payment option, at least, not without a massive restructuring of my business - new partnerships, new ein's, new bank accounts, new addresses...etc.

      Rob
      You probably are forced to start a new business entity Rob.

      Willie
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  • Profile picture of the author skylarw
    A frozen account in this situation is not such a big issue, as it can typically be easily resolved.

    However, just wait until the day comes when you sign into your account and Paypal has decided to hold 30% of all of your new incoming revenue for 90 days before releasing it out to you on a "rolling basis". This happened to my 5 year old Paypal Pro account, just a few months ago with no warning and no real explanation. My refund rate is under 1% and I have one complaint in 5 years.

    Now before you try to explain to me that this is how a "legitimate business" is run, please first explain to me why legitimate banks, and other payment processors do not do this. i.e. Google Checkout, Authorize.Net, My Chase Business Account??

    Needless to say, I do not use Paypal as my primary payment processor anymore, and I am 100% happy with the immediate payouts that my new processor offers. I just hope that Paypal continues to enjoy the interest on my $4,000.00 for the remaining 30 days.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      i personally dont understand why more IMers dont get true merchant accounts. they are not that hard to get anymore, and the costs are very minimal. most are about what you pay for aweber every month.

      as willie pointed out, they will have a similar reactions to apparent fraudulent activity.

      but in my experience, true merchant accounts deal with real business and they are more understanding of the issues regarding real business.

      they simply have far fewer customers so they can give more attention to those customers.

      paypal is as much a retail product as a business solution.
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    • Profile picture of the author azmanar
      Originally Posted by skylarw View Post

      I just hope that Paypal continues to enjoy the interest on my $4,000.00 for the remaining 30 days.
      I saw in another thread that claimed PayPal has at any 1 time holding close to $1billion in frozen accounts.

      If that is true, then on the other side of the goodness of PayPal in caring those frozen accounts from "fraudulent" activities, PayPal could be earning millions of dollars in interest from the frozen accounts.

      Hell, why aren't they sharing that with the frozen account holders as another GOODNESS.
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      • Profile picture of the author skylarw
        Originally Posted by azmanar View Post

        I saw in another thread that claimed PayPal has at any 1 time holding close to $1billion in frozen accounts.

        If that is true, then on the other side of the goodness of PayPal in caring those frozen accounts from "fraudulent" activities, PayPal could be earning millions of dollars in interest from the frozen accounts.

        Hell, why aren't they sharing that with the frozen account holders as another GOODNESS.
        LOL when I jokingly asked the Paypal account manager the same question she laughed and told me to take part in their money market fund...

        I really feel for those who do not deal in digital products, as 30% of their revenue being held may prevent them from being able to keep inventory, and/or pay their overhead.
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  • Profile picture of the author OhSusanna
    I received a notice that they would be holding all payments to me for 30 days. The email provided a few explanations. One of those was that I challenged too many charges. Well, I had only had ONE charge via Paypal to American Express that I had challenged. I initiated it through Amex then they let PayPal know.

    I called PayPal customer service immediately after I got the email. They quickly reversed the hold. The representative asked me if I had a lot of eBay transactions. I do not. She quickly changed the account back to my normal status.

    There is another service called Zash pay. I think they make mobile apps for it too. It is pretty slick.
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    How To Make More Income Quickly And Easily!--> CLICK HERE! <--
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
    Give them a call...

    Found a list of numbers for you .

    Cheers

    Caleb
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    Canadian Expat Living in Medellin, Colombia

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