Beginner: Learn Fundamentals or buy a 'system'?

38 replies
Hi,

It seems to me, after a few months of reading through offers for systems that they are all basically going to boil down to the same basics in the end anyway.

What I'm interested to know is, are there systems out there with very clever tactics that are really going to add to the buyers arsenal of IM skills, or is it more likely to be the same, rehashed information promoted for the benefits of those that do not realise this fact?

I understand that there are real courses out there from people who are incredibly experienced, and leveraging such knowledge would be useful. What confuses me, is why it needs to have some catchy name that does not convey this fact, and literally no information on what is on offer?!

So my question here is, are there systems out there that are offering true knowledge, and will really improve the purchasers' skill levels, or do they all come down to the same fundamentals of building lists, article marketing, e-mail marketing, social media, affiliates, products and so on?

I'm really interested to know what people's experience is - when you buy something new, how much do you learn from it? Or is it more often than not, a time saving device?

Thanks!
#beginner #buy #fundamentals #learn #ystem
  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    I'm in favor of understanding fundamentals.

    Then you're in a better position to evaluate systems based on those applied fundamentals.

    But it's not in a single book, product or even college degree. In fact, it's a life-long journey.

    Become a student of business in general. Start one. Fail. Start another one. Succeed.

    Oh, and if you've got business fundamentals down cold hard, you can CREATE the systems until your heart's content.

    I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me how stupid I am though.
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    • Profile picture of the author MartinPlatt
      Thanks Mike.
      It seems that a lot of these systems are made out to be all singing all dancing make 10K in a day type deals, but I have trouble understanding that, if it is all based on the smae fundamental concepts, which as you say are essentially doing good business.

      Whenever I ask about a particular system, people will say, take a look at X, but it seems nobody really wants to let on what it would teach you, or how it actually works.
      I'm trying to work through the fundamentals, the biggest of which at the moment appears to be issues with time, so I need to look into outsourcing, which is a challenge with virtually no traffic

      Thanks for the reply!
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    • Profile picture of the author MartinPlatt
      Coming back to this - I was wondering if there is a course that sort of does both? I'm looking at information on 'Rank and Pillage' - it's two year old information, but from what I understand it does both? It is a cookie cutter, but uses the fundamentals to great effect.
      Can you comment?
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      I'm in favor of understanding fundamentals.

      Then you're in a better position to evaluate systems based on those applied fundamentals.

      But it's not in a single book, product or even college degree. In fact, it's a life-long journey.

      Become a student of business in general. Start one. Fail. Start another one. Succeed.

      Oh, and if you've got business fundamentals down cold hard, you can CREATE the systems until your heart's content.

      I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me how stupid I am though.
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
      Actually not (stupid that is). This response exactly.
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  • Profile picture of the author 1mauigirl
    My advise to newbies would be to look at the people behind the product. People like Paul Myers, a moderator on this forum btw, Paul, Willie Crawford, Dr. Mani and many others who have been in IM for years are the people you want to hook into.

    Learn from those who are successful at what you want to do out here in cyberspace.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Am I missing something Martin?

    By the looks of your website, it appears youre already quite experienced :confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author WebPen
    It depends.

    The fundamentals are good- but what fundamentals are you talking about?

    The fundamentals of PPC? of SEO? Domain flipping? Affiliate marketing? Facebook? Article marketing?

    There are a LOT of fundamentals you can learn.

    I've learned that- if you learn too many fundamentals, you get pulled in too many directions.

    For example there are guys making 6-7 figures who don't have a clue about SEO. Those were not fundamentals they needed to succeed.
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  • Profile picture of the author DanteRomero
    I'll lay out the big problem.

    Only 5% of the people selling stuff about internet marketing know what they are talking about. But that isn't the big problem.


    It's that of those 5% - - 1% know how to TEACH. And since you are there student, can you see the importance of them knowing that?

    For this reason, I really struggle to recommend anything but the online affiliate income course from Simpleology.com. It lays it all out. I was so shocked when I found it. But hey.

    I'm not trying to knock other people's courses. I haven't read the entirety of the internet - never will. But in my experience, this has been the only true diamond. Actually lets take just that for a second.

    When you first find a diamond, it looks like a piece of carbon. It's black and stained. But once it gets polished - you have something of incredible beauty - something worth paying for and that people WILL pay their hard-earned money for.

    Simpleology OAI is that polished stone. The others may have the core information right - but has it been polished yet? Is it understandable? Can you set it in motion with a limited amount of distilling it? I'll let you be the judge.

    https://products.simpleology.com/oaispecial/
    ( This is not an affiliate link )

    This is an up-front learning experience. Everything else I've tried was an easter egg hunt. Not my favorite method of learning. The eggs are buried in ambiguous writing and unclear processes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Affililancer
    I think learning through experience is your best bet rather than relying on push button solutions. For example, if you want to use article marketing as a way to generate traffic then spend two or three hours learning the 'basics' of article marketing. Then turn around spend the next 12 to 13 hours actually implementing article marketing. As you gain experience you will discover what works and does not. You will end up with you own systems and a valuable skill that you can monetize actively or passively.
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    • Profile picture of the author BlisteringROI
      Not to be blunt but the sooner you fall on your face the better. Pick a vertical to sell to (Health, make money, skin, get ripped, daily deals, anxiety, etc etc). Then pick a medium to drive traffic (paid, seo, etc), then learn the fundamentals and stick to it for at least 3 months, then tweek based off your new found lessons. There is no push button anything. But there really are people making full time incomes and beyond in IM. Invest in "proven" people, not their systems.

      Oh yeah, see that banner below my signature, its an affiliate link. Do not jump into things like that. It would be pointless until you learn fundamentals. Hope that helps, good luck!
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      • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
        Originally Posted by BlisteringROI View Post

        Not to be blunt but the sooner you fall on your face the better. Pick a vertical to sell to (Health, make money, skin, get ripped, daily deals, anxiety, etc etc). Then pick a medium to drive traffic (paid, seo, etc), then learn the fundamentals and stick to it for at least 3 months, then tweek based off your new found lessons. There is no push button anything. But there really are people making full time incomes and beyond in IM. Invest in "proven" people, not their systems.

        Oh yeah, see that banner below my signature, its an affiliate link. Do not jump into things like that. It would be pointless until you learn fundamentals. Hope that helps, good luck!

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ing-forum.html

        #5 NO AFFILIATE LINKS IN SIGS

        So yeah... don't do what BlisteringROI does. Do not jumpt into things like that. It would be pointless until you learn fundamentals... like reading the rules of a forum before you get the ban hammer.

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        • Profile picture of the author RellGins
          #5 NO AFFILIATE LINKS IN SIGS

          So yeah... don't do what BlisteringROI does. Do not jumpt into things like that. It would be pointless until you learn fundamentals... like reading the rules of a forum before you get the ban hammer.

          [/quote]


          Awesome! lol
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      • Profile picture of the author MartinPlatt
        Originally Posted by BlisteringROI View Post

        Not to be blunt but the sooner you fall on your face the better. Pick a vertical to sell to (Health, make money, skin, get ripped, daily deals, anxiety, etc etc). Then pick a medium to drive traffic (paid, seo, etc), then learn the fundamentals and stick to it for at least 3 months, then tweek based off your new found lessons. There is no push button anything. But there really are people making full time incomes and beyond in IM. Invest in "proven" people, not their systems.

        Oh yeah, see that banner below my signature, its an affiliate link. Do not jump into things like that. It would be pointless until you learn fundamentals. Hope that helps, good luck!
        I'm in this forum to bruise less when I fall, or that is my hope at least.
        I know that we need to fail to learn, so that we can succeed - I am learning a lot already - I did just in with Rose coloured glasses, and am now starting to find that it is quite a challange. Still enjoying it, but I am now thinking I could be best served with a course that at least gets me to the point where fundamentally I'm close to doing what I should be doing? Hopefully by doing this, I will end up with a lot less faceplants
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        • Profile picture of the author koolphoto
          My opinion is to learn the fundamentals. Then create your own system that works for you through trail and error. Some might say that this is the long way to do it and it takes too much time.

          But I never had luck with any systems when I started. I didn't know what worked and what didn't work so I could never really understand if these systems would work anyways. Then after trying them and finding they didn't work, I had to start from scratch again. I also think because I didn't know the fundamentals maybe I didn't know how to apply the system in the first place.

          When I started to experiment on my own and learn what worked and what didn't for me then I started to make money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert X
    There is no magic button that will make you money for doing nothing. And who would give away something that would make money? Learn the fundamentals and go from there. I've bought soooooo many stupid programs claiming to make me thousands,,, and guess what? ,,,,,,,,,,, nothing happened
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  • Profile picture of the author sscot
    Is money your only hope? buy a system and earn. But, you face to a risk what? A slight changing of associated tool can break the whole system. Go with fundamentals.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tocholke
      Originally Posted by sscot View Post

      Is money your only hope? buy a system and earn. But, you face to a risk what? A slight changing of associated tool can break the whole system. Go with fundamentals.
      Agreed, fundamentals all the way. You need a good foundation for your IM castle.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by MartinPlatt View Post

    What I'm interested to know is, are there systems out there with very clever tactics that are really going to add to the buyers arsenal of IM skills, or is it more likely to be the same, rehashed information promoted for the benefits of those that do not realise this fact?
    IM is like Legos.

    You get your Legos, and they come with an instruction book.

    If you follow the instructions, you get a cool little model that looks great.

    Then you take it apart and build something else, but what you build yourself looks a bit crap.

    It takes time, practice, and guidance before you can build stuff that looks and works like the stuff in the instruction books.

    But any idiot can buy the kit and follow the instructions.

    When you don't need the instructions anymore, it's easy to say "these instructions are worthless," but you have to consider the newbie who's sitting there with a pile of blocks and everything he builds is a bit crap.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      IM is like Legos.

      You get your Legos, and they come with an instruction book.

      If you follow the instructions, you get a cool little model that looks great.

      Then you take it apart and build something else, but what you build yourself looks a bit crap.

      It takes time, practice, and guidance before you can build stuff that looks and works like the stuff in the instruction books.

      But any idiot can buy the kit and follow the instructions.

      When you don't need the instructions anymore, it's easy to say "these instructions are worthless," but you have to consider the newbie who's sitting there with a pile of blocks and everything he builds is a bit crap.
      Thats probably why the majority decide its too hard to build stuff and take the easy way out - they sell the lego. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author acurren
    One of the biggest problems with being a newbie is all the options. The concept of find a hot niche, set up a site drive traffic then adjust, is itself very simple. But when the actual implementation comes it's another story. It all gets complex and you need someone to hold you by the hand and show you how to do each part. The alternative is to just use seasoned outsourcers to do the parts you don't get yet.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rough Outline
    If you buy a system, then once it is stop working, you stop earning. But if you know the fundamentals, you can ride the waves and adapt.

    Some systems are good for a quick buck but if you want to earn constantly then knowing the fundamentals of business will stand you in a good stead.
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  • Profile picture of the author charlieboy747
    I've taken something from everything I've ever bought. It wasn't always what it said I'd get on the box, but hey you live and learn. I'd definitely suggest learning the basics of website creation, seo and the likes so you can understand what it takes to get traffic, customers etc and realise how hard it can be to do those things properly to get results.
    Put in the time and effort and you will get the rewards
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Justin Stowe View Post

      It depends.

      The fundamentals are good- but what fundamentals are you talking about?

      The fundamentals of PPC? of SEO? Domain flipping? Affiliate marketing? Facebook? Article marketing?

      There are a LOT of fundamentals you can learn.

      I've learned that- if you learn too many fundamentals, you get pulled in too many directions.

      For example there are guys making 6-7 figures who don't have a clue about SEO. Those were not fundamentals they needed to succeed.
      Actually, I would take things one level simpler.

      Learn fundamentals like 'choosing a market and learning what they want', 'sourcing what they want in the form they want it', crafting an offer that tells them you have what they want' and 'putting that offer in front of that market effectively'.

      In short, find out what people want to buy and get them to buy it from you. All of the things you mentioned are variants of the above.

      To the OP...

      One thing about "systems" is that many of them are either retold fundamentals, as you say, or they rely on gimmicks and temporary loopholes. Once the gimmick is blocked or the loophole closed, the system is worthless.
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  • Profile picture of the author leedev
    Rather than endless generalizing, here are some good courses by expert marketers well known to many on the WF and internet, so hope this helps:
    They all present massive value if you use them

    Rank and Pillage by Brian and Aidan
    Rapid Profit Formula by Matt Carter
    Unstoppable Affiliate byv Andrew Hanseb
    Internet Marketing Uncut by Tristan Bull and Mirko
    Newbie Crusher by Robert Plank and Lance T.

    and, last but not least< Mark Joyner's Simplogy

    As Dante Romero well puts it in above post #7 --

    "When you first find a diamond, it looks like a piece of carbon. It's black and stained. But once it gets polished - you have something of incredible beauty - something worth paying for and that people WILL pay their hard-earned money for.

    Simpleology OAI is that polished stone. The others may have the core information right - but has it been polished yet? Is it understandable? Can you set it in motion with a limited amount of distilling it? I'll let you be the judge.

    https://products.simpleology.com/oaispecial/
    ( This is not an affiliate link )

    This is an up-front learning experience. Everything else I've tried was an easter egg hunt. Not my favorite method of learning. The eggs are buried in ambiguous writing and unclear processes"

    So here are some excellent choices to check out.
    Hope this helps you.

    From a fellow seeker.
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  • Profile picture of the author That Guy
    I say that you buy a product that looks promising and has a lot of good reviews, for me it was the 100k Adsense Blueprint. It really didn't help THAT much but it gave me an outline of a system that might work out for me. It takes a lot of trial and error until you can find your own system that will make you money.

    I've been at this for 4 months and in the past ~7 days I've been making about $1/day off of adsense. And that was from using the ebook as base for all basic knowledge combined with everything that I've learned for the forums.

    Remember ebooks will get outdated and their methods might not be as effective as they were previously, but this forum gives you up-to-the-date information from the latest Panda update to the newest backlinking methods.

    Good luck!
    -Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author The Magician
    What confuses me, is why it needs to have some catchy name that does not convey this fact, and literally no information on what is on offer?!
    Product launches selling a "pig in a poke," a.k.a. "newbie fodder," are best sellers because the make money online market is constantly growing. Although Clickbank's refund policy lets you purchase such offers risk-free, you waste a resource more valuable than money: time.

    So my question here is, are there systems out there that are offering true knowledge, and will really improve the purchasers' skill levels, or do they all come down to the same fundamentals of building lists, article marketing, e-mail marketing, social media, affiliates, products and so on?
    For that, you should probably stick to the heavy-hitters in the industry. Mark Joyner, John Reese, and Frank Kern come to mind. The three core skills of Internet marketing boil down to traffic, list building, and copywriting. Pick one and master it.
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    • Profile picture of the author cscarpero
      Learn the fundamentals. Also, decide what area of IM you want to do and ONLY buy products related to improving your knowledge of it.

      When buying a product, only buy things that you will put into action within 10 minutes of downloading.
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  • Profile picture of the author BWellman
    As a beginner I can contribute to this thread with my personal experience. I set out to research my options but that just lead to indecision. I can't go back to school because I can't afford any more student loans so I was searching for something else. I've always wanted to learn how people make money on the web so I started there.

    After 4 months of research I knew I had to do something or doom myself to daydreams and wishes and we all know "if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride." I finally picked something that sounded like a business instead of a "flash in the pan" and went with someone that seems to have some integrity - Tiffany Dow. I purchased her product because I know nothing about setting up websites or anything like that. Although I had some trouble with some of the information - it was worth the money I spent because I wouldn't have been able to figure it out on my own. As a note - she personally answered my questions and didn't talk down to me - that's the sign of a true professional and I'm glad I chose to purchase her product.

    I'm working steadily at learning - taking free info and courses and picking and choosing the stuff I want to keep for future reference and I'm smart enough to know I'm not going to make money overnight - but I'm still tempted with some products and have made a few purchases that I'm thinking were a mistake.

    I have a budget, and until I start making some money- I'm going to keep to it and I'm not giving up. In 3 weeks I've learned more than I ever did with 4 months of research and just to let you know - if falling on your face and getting back up were an Olympic sport - I'd have the gold.

    Knowing the fundamentals takes time and if you can kill yourself and your dreams with enough time. At my current employment I stepped down because I got tired of the crap and got tired of fixing people's mistakes - the company believed it was better for me to just fix it rather than teach the agents the right way to do it so they wouldn't do it again. I am a firm believer that if you learn to do something - rather than just listen or read about it - it will make you better at what you do. I will be following that philosophy as I continue to work on my business. [but any helpful advise is always welcome]
    ~B~
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  • Profile picture of the author Harold Lindsey
    I think for those of us who buy some of these systems and put them to use, we definitely see that a lot of these courses do share the same fundementals. But we notice that a lot of time we must sometimes fine tune them like a radio station to get the work for us.

    But sometimes 93% of the material we will probably already know or its equivelant version. But. It is that extra 7%, that sometimes we might say, "hmm, I don't think I've quite thought of that before. And that little 7% can give our business a huge boost; sometimes taking us to another level.
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  • Profile picture of the author SUPER Louie
    Buy something really good. Follow the system. Make the money. That's pretty much how it works.
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  • Profile picture of the author Murlu
    I would vote for learning the fundamentals because every 'system' is really built upon others works which mean that it's really rare for it to work for you - you need to build you own that way you understand what you're doing and not just blindly following a blueprint that could be outdated.

    I would say to start at the very, very fundamentals - learn web design.

    I say this because you'll understand how to setup a site with great navigation, SEO and content from the ground up. Don't focus too much on the end results at this time; just get the fundamentals down so you know websites from the inside out - then move onto bigger projects.
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  • Profile picture of the author teatree
    Originally Posted by MartinPlatt View Post

    Hi,

    What I'm interested to know is, are there systems out there with very clever tactics that are really going to add to the buyers arsenal of IM skills, or is it more likely to be the same, rehashed information promoted for the benefits of those that do not realise this fact?
    The systems out there fall into two categories a) stuff written by people who are now professional IM tutors, and they make their money tutoring, and a lot of their info is years out of date, and they don't realise it because implementing what they teach isn't their main source of income and b) people who have actually made money from their systems, but as soon as they publish, the herd stampedes into it, abuses it, and as a result it gets on Google's radar and they nullify the system.

    Given that, it's actually better to learn fundamentals instead of pinning your hopes on a system which is likely to be out of date or become obsolete soon after it is implemented.

    For a book on fundamentals, I recommend Aaron Wall's "Seo book" - google it

    That book was an epiphany for me, and once I understood the fundamentals, I was able to build my own system and ride out the various changes in Google's algorithms
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  • Profile picture of the author MarkWrites
    I think if you understand the fundamentals then nothing stops you down the road from implementing nearly any "system". You will also be that much more ready to implement or even create and sell a "system" of your own.

    Learn the basics first, everything builds off that.
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  • Profile picture of the author addison.agnote
    Well, for me buy the 'system' and try to learn the fundamentals if you can so you can use your resources efficiently.
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  • Profile picture of the author brendanglanville
    As a qualified beginner with a capital B let me say i have bought a couple of things - i have learnt from all - even if i was unable to implement them - i learnt at least what they did that created a buying trigger in me - or tickled it anyway.

    Then my aim (god willing) is to take action and find people to outsource to that are honest - to fill the gaps.

    As a film maker - i am brilliant at giving direction to the actor - but i suck totally at what lense to use - what shutter speed - even how to frame the scene on occasion - i choose people who compliment my skills - They know they will get a killer performance with me directing - i choose people who will make that performance stand out on screen.

    I see this as the same.

    But until i buy a few programmes i wont KNOW what i dont know therefor wont know what i need or who i need to build my team.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stephen Lessey
    Learn the fundamentals on how to sell. We are Internet Marketers. Never forget that.

    Our job is to persuade and help our customers. If we know how to write effective covers and headlines then everything else would be a system to build off of.

    Learn to be a better copywriter
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    • Profile picture of the author Itachi
      I'd say learn about the fundamentals BEFORE buying a system.

      You can still learn the info for free there is plenty out there, the thing is that buying a product can save you some time because (If the product is decent of course) the person did took time to aggregate tons of info and organise it in a way that is easy to implement such as a step by step or a blueprint.

      Now what you can learn in a video course or an ebook is some condensed info and hardly ever cover everything but the thing is that it's made for easy implementation and give you directions, if you learn for free it will take alot of time and to get a good understanding of how things works you might have to check dozens of forums, ebook, video and webinars etc pretty much like I did. (not saying im a pro now that I know some stuff I have'nt implemented anything serious so far.. the only thing currently holding me back is money, but im glad I learned so much and I have a few ideas now)

      But remember it's important to know what options you can take, for exemple do you know what is : CPC, CPV, email marketing,article(directory)marketing, niche websites etc do you know if you could enjoy one of these methods more than another ?
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