New Trend in WSO Forum? ... 'honest' reviews?

13 years ago

Haaha yea I sympathise with that.

Often testimonials are faked or written by the original poster anyway.

There are a lot of genuine one in the mix but my method for gaining these testimonials is just sending out an email to my clients asking for an honest review in my Warrior Forum thread.

I'll also sometime offer an incentive, like extra backlinks or something in return for them taking the time to honestly review the service.

I figure, an honest review is more credible than a "positive" review any day!

I mean even if there are a couple of bad points they raise, these would be outweighed by the positives otherwise they wouldn't be my client

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Carl Fridsjö

13 years ago

How is this different then offering any other incentive for a review?

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Rob Howard

13 years ago

Now that is interesting.

Well...if both are a deal for warriors, and if both of them are linking to each other (thus, informing the potential buyers of the other deal), I'm not sure how that couldn't be allowed...

But, he has no way of enforcing his "testimonial only" people to come back and give one, so he's just setting himself.

hm.

Rob

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Frank Donovan

13 years ago

My first reaction was that bribing someone with a reduced price in return for a review/testimonial would be against the WSO rules. But reading the latest updates:

9. (added 29 June 2011) You may not offer any kind of "bribe" inside your product in exchange for leaving reviews in your WSO thread. For instance, you can't offer a bonus report that people only get if they leave a review. This makes all the reviews in your thread at least slightly suspect.

(added 9 July 2011) The above paragraph isn't as clear as it could have been -- It's OK to publicly offer review copies, for free or at a discount, inside your WSO thread. Reviewers should make sure to say in their reviews that they received review copies. Transparency is the key here.

...I think there's room for confusion. The first update (29 June) seems pretty clear to me. The second (9 July) adds the phrase "...or at a discount" which has probably prompted the offers alluded to in the OP.

Personally, I would think there should be either limited free review copies or regular price copies. I don't believe the updated rule was intended to encourage an ongoing two-tier pricing structure.

Frank

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

(added 9 July 2011) The above paragraph isn't as clear as it could have been -- It's OK to publicly offer review copies, for free or at a discount, inside your WSO thread. Reviewers should make sure to say in their reviews that they received review copies. Transparency is the key here.

Personally, I would think there should be either limited free review copies or regular price copies. I don't believe the updated rule was intended to encourage an ongoing two-tier pricing structure.

Frank

I bought a WSO from a respected Warrior at the lower price for leaving a review. It didn't say I had to leave a great review ... it just said leave a review.

The product was excellent, as I anticipated it would be and I left my review stating that. If it hadn't been, I would have said so.

I don't see any difference in incentivizing reviews with a free review copy or this two price method. Both accomplish the same thing and both are completely transparent.

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Frank Donovan

13 years ago

Suzanne,

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I don't see any difference in incentivizing reviews with a free review copy or this two price method. Both accomplish the same thing and both are completely transparent.

I was just saying what I felt about the two-tier structure. For sure, there's transparency in this system and prospective buyers can always attach more or less weight to the reviews depending on the reputation of the reviewer.

A couple of questions spring to mind:

Why would a buyer willingly pay the higher price when: a) there's no way to police whether they return to post a review; or b) they could simply post a generic and non commital one-liner to fulfil their "promise"?

There's also the issue of non member buyers. Is the reduced price sufficiently enticing to persuade them to sign up to the WF before buying (to post a review) or will they resent having to make the choice between joining or paying the higher price (and therefore pass on the purchase)?

Can't say I'm that bothered either way; but I don't expect this trend to last very long.

Frank

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Suzanne,

I was just saying what I felt about the two-tier structure. For sure, there's transparency in this system and prospective buyers can always attach more or less weight to the reviews depending on the reputation of the reviewer.

A couple of questions spring to mind:

Why would a buyer willingly pay the higher price when: a) there's no way to police whether they return to post a review; or b) they could simply post a generic and non commital one-liner to fulfil their "promise"?

There's also the issue of non member buyers. Is the reduced price sufficiently enticing to persuade them to sign up to the WF before buying (to post a review) or will they resent having to make the choice between joining or paying the higher price (and therefore pass on the purchase)?

Can't say I'm that bothered either way; but I don't expect this trend to last very long.

Frank

Here's the way I see it. I have never posted a review that I didn't mean - as in completely honest review- for any product, and the lower price isn't going to change that.

There are a lot of customers who are very happy who never leave reviews. I've been guilty of that too. Just didn't get around to it. The "promise" you make with the two price system overcomes that a bit. I said I would, so I did. So it helps to get people off their butts back to the thread to actually leave a review.

Yes, I think the reduced price would entice people to sign up to the WF to leave a review. I also think that a lot of people will just not leave the review, since it can't really be enforced.

But ... judging from the thread I bought from, it was a smashing success. There are many reviews. Like I said ... the product is GREAT, so it would be difficult to say if they are all honest reviews. The customers love the product, so I didn't really expect to see bad reviews.

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David Morris Banned 13 years ago

This goes to show that some folks would do anything to get glowing reviews for their product these days..
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- sbucciarel Banned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by David Morris
  
  This goes to show that some folks would do anything to get glowing reviews for their product these days..
  
  I rather suspect that only people who have real confidence that they've got a dynamite product will use this.
  
  They do not and cannot, ask for a glowing review. They can only ask for a review. So the product had better be good or they may end up with one big crash and burn on their hands.
  
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- WillR 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by David Morris
  
  This goes to show that some folks would do anything to get glowing reviews for their product these days..
  
  ... and that some people do not know what they are talking about.
  
  As I already stated, it's been ok for people to give away review copies of their WSO's for years without ever a complaint, but charging them for those review copies is somehow worse? Give me a break. How on earth?
  
  If you can't understand the logic behind it (which clearly you don't) then don't make silly unsubstantiated comments like that... please.
  
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Ben Armstrong

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I bought a WSO from a respected Warrior at the lower price for leaving a review. It didn't say I had to leave a great review ... it just said leave a review.

The product was excellent, as I anticipated it would be and I left my review stating that. If it hadn't been, I would have said so.

I don't see any difference in incentivizing reviews with a free review copy or this two price method. Both accomplish the same thing and both are completely transparent.

That's the thing... A dishonest marketer who has a substandard product doesn't really have anything to gain by offering a lower priced product in exchange for a review.

If people dislike the product, they've still paid money for it and will most likely return with a poor review that won't help one bit.

For someone that stands by the quality of their product it's a great way to make sure people who are pleased with it add their thoughts for others to read.

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Michael Oksa

13 years ago

Report them and let the Super Mods decide.

All the best,
Michael

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Carl,

How is this different then offering any other incentive for a review?

It is 100% transparent. You know up front that those reviews were probably incentivized, so you can take that into account when considering their value.

The hidden offers for extras in return for a review are not transparent, and they can create a deceptive impression. This won't. The last line in Tiff's OP makes it clear they're not given as much weight. How much you discount them depends on your personal assessment of the person giving them.

Paul

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alexmobile

13 years ago

What? A dishonest review? In the Internet Marketing forum thread? No way....

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Nothing wrong with this type of WSO as far as the forum rules.

The WSO I looked at that does this ask for an honest review (not a good review).

They are smart in how they market the WSO, IMO.

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WillR

13 years ago

Firstly, I would hardly call it a 'trend' simply because one or two people are using it.

I'll chime in here because one of the WSO's you are talking about is probably mine. I believe I was the first person to use this method and I have no problem in admitting that. I do not see anything wrong with offering a reduced price for those people who are willing to take the time to come back and leave an honest review.

Note, I NEVER say anywhere that they must come back and leave a glowing testimonial.

Think about it for one second. The customer has received the reduced pricing BEFORE they even get to the product. This means they are not going to lose anything by coming back and leaving a negative review. This is TOTALLY different to offering a bonus AFTER someone has seen the product and conditional on leaving a review. THAT type of tactic is encouraging misleading reviews and that is why it has been stopped.

The way I am doing things ONLY encourages them to POST a review - it does not influence whether that review will be negative or positive. That is totally up to the customer and as stated above, they have nothing to lose by leaving a negative review and nothing to gain by leaving a positive review.

I'll also point out that inside my members area I encourage them to leave an HONEST review. I don't want any a** kissing - it helps no one.

I've received a lot of great feedback using this method. People don't just post glowing testimonials. I have had a lot of people ask questions or tell me what else they would like to see or things that could be improved. This is feedback I probably would not have received otherwise. So it helps everyone.

P.S. What would you believe more? A review from someone who has not spent a cent and just received a free review copy, or a review from someone who has actually spent some of their own hard-earned money? This is the exact reason why I implemented this in the first place. I did not want to give away ANY free review copies because I take all those reviews with a grain of salt - as do most other people. But some how you think they are more valid than someone who has paid for a copy at a reduced price?

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TiffLee

13 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

I did not want to give away ANY free review copies because I take all those reviews with a grain of salt - as do most other people. But some how you think they are more valid than someone who has paid for a copy at a reduced price?

??

... your post lose all of their validity when you start putting words into other people's mouth.

I never once even suggested that.

But, thanks for replying nonetheless.

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WillR

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TiffLee

??

... your post lose all of their validity when you start putting words into other people's mouth.

I never once even suggested that.

But, thanks for replying nonetheless.

Tiff,

Sorry, just assumed it because you were questioning this method but the other method that has been happening for years was never questioned... so figured you were ok with it as well. Was not trying to put words in your mouth.

Anyhow, it's best to raise these concerns if you have them, like you did, as people can now understand the clear difference.

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nism

13 years ago

report it tiff.....

regards,
nism

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

nism,

report it tiff.....

She did the right thing by asking for clarification about how it fits within the rules. She got her answer: It's fine, as long as what's going on is clear to everyone involved in the process.

There's nothing in that technique that requires reporting.

Now, if someone is offering a bonus after the sale to people who post a comment, that's another thing entirely. Folks considering the purchase don't know that those comments were incentivized, so they're more likely to take them as evidence of a great offer, rather than a hidden bribe. That can create a deceptive impression.

Paul

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DebbieD

13 years ago

Here's another idea - How about telling them to leave a review after trying the product and seeing results?

Most reviews go something like this:
"This product looks great. I'm positive it will make me money! Why didn't I think of this before?"

There are very little reviews with information on the actual implementation - or results.

Granted, I know most people don't even do the actual WSO, so they don't have any results to speak of. And to those that do implement, seeing results takes time.

But perhaps if you give them some incentive to actually implement the WSO and post results, they'll do that?

Just an idea...

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Debbie,

That's an excellent idea, except for a few small things. And a lot of people troll the WSO section using your perfectly sane notion in entirely not-sane ways...

First, most people quit thinking about posting reviews once they've gotten into the process of using something. By the time they've learned it well enough to get results from it, they've also moved their focus from the learning to the results. Reviews are forgotten, especially when they have to use their own brains (read: always) to make the thing work.

Second, the mindset of the WSO section for most people is wrapped around the word "special." That suggests time-limited. The sellers aren't waiting for someone to spend months getting results before they start making more sales. Patience, while a useful virtue, isn't the driving force in most advertising - anywhere.

Third, the dynamic is very immediate for most offers. The seller pays for the ad and wants to get a return on their investment. The vast majority of that return will come while they're on the front page of the section. Other than people who make the most of the SEO benefits of having an offer on this forum, which are a surprisingly small percentage of sellers, that means "Sell it now, or don't bother bumping it back up later."

Combine those with the fact that most people "buy and burn" (don't use the products and might as well have burnt the money), and the ones who do something with them usually keep moving forward, and you've got your answer: It would be lovely, but it won't happen often, even for the best of products sold through that channel.

Paul

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DebbieD

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Debbie,

That's an excellent idea, except for a few small things. And a lot of people troll the WSO section using your perfectly sane notion in entirely not-sane ways...

First, most people quit thinking about posting reviews once they've gotten into the process of using something. By the time they've learned it well enough to get results from it, they've also moved their focus from the learning to the results. Reviews are forgotten, especially when they have to use their own brains (read: always) to make the thing work.

Second, the mindset of the WSO section for most people is wrapped around the word "special." That suggests time-limited. The sellers aren't waiting for someone to spend months getting results before they start making more sales. Patience, while a useful virtue, isn't the driving force in most advertising - anywhere.

Third, the dynamic is very immediate for most offers. The seller pays for the ad and wants to get a return on their investment. The vast majority of that return will come while they're on the front page of the section. Other than people who make the most of the SEO benefits of having an offer on this forum, which are a surprisingly small percentage of sellers, that means "Sell it now, or don't bother bumping it back up later."

Combine those with the fact that most people "buy and burn" (don't use the products and might as well have burnt the money), and the ones who do something with them usually keep moving forward, and you've got your answer: It would be lovely, but it won't happen often, even for the best of products sold through that channel.

Paul

Thanks for your reply, Paul. Makes sense.

What I do is I look for reviews from warriors I trust. And I look for specific reviews, not just generic, "Wow, great product!"

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DebbieD 13 years ago

Also, I have no problem at all seeing incentivized reviews, especially if they say so in the review and they're not getting anything AFTER giving the review, just BEFORE.

I just want the review to be honest and as specific as possible, without giving away anything.
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Gary Ning Lo

13 years ago

I noticed that we were no longer allowed to give an incentive to a buyer (on the download page) to post a review...

How is this different compared to giving a discount before purchase in exchange of a review.

Cheers,

~Gary

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by garytsang

I noticed that we were no longer allowed to give an incentive to a buyer (on the download page) to post a review...

How is this different compared to giving a discount before purchase in exchange of a review.

Cheers,

~Gary

I believe that Paul already answered that question

transparency

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Gary Ning Lo 13 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I believe that Paul already answered that question

transparency

Missed Paul's post
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Michael Meaney

13 years ago

Nobody's being ripped off.

No rules are being broken.

Nobody's ethics are being compromised.

If people spent more time focusing on running their own business, instead of worrying about how others choose to run theirs, there might be a lot more success stories.

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Frank Donovan

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mick Meaney

If people spent more time focusing on running their own business, instead of worrying about how others choose to run theirs, there might be a lot more success stories.

Whatever the truth of that particular generalisation, it hardly applies here.

Nobody's worrying about how others run their business. Tiff raised a valid point which has been sensibly discussed. That's what the forum's for.

Frank

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Michael Meaney

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Whatever the truth of that particular generalisation, it hardly applies here.

Nobody's worrying about how others run their business. Tiff raised a valid point which has been sensibly discussed. That's what the forum's for.

Frank

A fair question was asked, and a fair answer was given.. can't see the point in debating the minutiae.

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mattlaclear

13 years ago

What about vendors getting protection in this area as well? We use specific copy in our wso letting folks know the reason the pricing is so low is because...

But the best part is that our search engine optimization pricing costs about 1/25 of what a typical "SEO Expert" would charge you...

There is just one catch, however, and that is you’ve got to give us your comments about the results you'll receive with our team's help. I think you’ll agree this is a fair request for having this service performed at such a low price.

Anyone want to guess how many Warriors keep their word and actually give a review when we grab their page one ranking?

A whopping 7% keep their word and leave a positive review. What about the other 93% that we drive to page one? They continue buying more from us but it's like pulling teeth to get the review they promised us. Most of them never do even when reminded of their promise.

Why isn't their any initiative or outcry to protect vendors from this sort of thing?

We were able to push the number up to 20% for a while when we offered to give our clients an extra 60 days of maintenance links if they left a testimonial AFTER we drove their site to page one. But with the new rule regarding offering bonuses in exchange for reviews we ceased doing so and the number fell right back to 7%.

Just saying.

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tehnolife

Banned 13 years ago

A moderator should lock this thread, because the answer was already given.

So, if we keep going like this, this topic will never end.

I don't see the point in debating this if the answer was very clear.

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New Trend in WSO Forum? ... 'honest' reviews?

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