Are You Afraid of Paypal? Here's What You Do.

Excellent post and I completely agree, why not have multiple processors? There is even a cheap WP script that will rotate your BIN links between up to 6 merchant accounts. I think 6 might be excessive, but 2-3 backups never hurt anyone.

These are good tips.

I too run a service, and it was that services paypal that got shut down.

I would also be wary to run any subscription based services or membership sites through paypal. Credit card only, and if possible, don't use 3rd party scripts (with memberships - recurring)

This means getting a merchant account and a shopping cart. Get a backup merchant account and if one ever shuts you down, you can switch your recurring customers to another merchant account in 2 clicks, or 3 with some shopping carts.

Suzanne is right, be sure to have backups. Your business is worth it, trust me!

Rob

Are there any other alternatives to paypal.

I think a lot of people who have been reading about what can happen using paypal will appreciate this post, myself included.

That's exactly what I did, I reactivated my 2checkout account last week and just confirmed my alertpay verification.

@David Morris
I'm afraid you can't with alertpay, but you can do it with 2checkout.

Thanks! I already do the bank account trick... but, have always been a little nervous about using alternative gateways because there are so many shady ones out there that can't be trusted so, I've not gone down that road.

Thanks for the tips.

Great post, thank you! I don't have any problems with PayPal (haven't had any in the past) but still... Because I believe in 'minimizing the risks' for my business.

Alertpay has been a pain in the arse for me. They LOST my verification paperwork. Twice. I gave up after that. I think I will try again since it's been a while. It's always a good idea to have a backup plan though.

Good post. Looking at these two options, it appears Alert Pay is just like Paypal as far as fees, but AP can't accept PP payments.

2CO has the following fees:

• $49 one-time application fee (per account)
• 5.5% and $0.45 per sale

Not bad, and they can accept Paypal payments. But, I wonder if you can integrate 2CO with e-junkie or any other secure digital delivery mechanism. I would also like to integrate with an affiliate management script as well.

I'll have to take a closer look at it.

Great post. I use Paypal as my primary but a percentage of sales do go through my merchant account. I really want to use 2CO but my shopping cart 'Cart66' does not support it. I wonder if a programmer could make 2CO work with my unsupported shopping cart?

Ugh, I can't stand PayPal. Plimus is great though if you're a vendor.

Ok, here is my Story with PayPal:
In 2008, ive got in one month about $8000 in my PayPal account, from my clients. Now, PayPal, without any notifications, Cancel all my Transactions and Refunded all My Funds to my Clients. Many of them sent to me Messages and asked how they can Refund my Money Back, cause they saw a Refund from me. I charged them other way, And Start to Call PayPal... After about 3 months of Talking with those Guys, i didnt resolved my issue with them, And i asked to have my Products Returned if they took my Money, But They Avoid to Help me, so, i was OUT of bussines... I wanna tell you guys, that PayPal is a SCAM COMPANY, you cant Belive how Stupid they are, i've got HOURS of CONVERSATION with them, i asked my Lawyer to help me, we was about to Open a case on PayPal, But then we realized that those guys are very Intrasparent, Its Imposible to Open cases on Them, Especially if you are from Other States. When my lawyer called them, they asked for Documentations, we Provide them with, 100%, they told us that they have everything, and soon they will Refund my Money Back, After 3 Months they Told me that My Case is too Old and they Cancel it, and if i want money back or my Goods Back, i need to Call Each my previous Customer and Resolv by my Self my Problem, They Dont care about it any more....
So, i've got all my Money Back, exept from one Customer, he keep my item and my Money and avoid to Refund...
So, guys, Be very Carefull with PayPal, They are very Stupid. Every day we have Conversation with them, and Today one Representative Told us One thing, Tomorrow Other guy Told us something else, and this was for 3 Months...


I never got any Problems with PayPal Before, ive got thru them 1000's $ and never got any issue. But, in one day i lost more than in 3 years

P.S. I Sold Goods, from Factory, im affiliate with some Companies, and have every new Product in my Hand Early than Product are on Massive Market. PayPal Contacted Factory and THEY RECOGNIZED me as Their Sales Person with 100% Rights, They Provide to PayPal all our transactions and every piece of paper PayPal asked for.

Good Luck Guys

Excellent advice Suzanne. I do have an AlertPay account as a backup, but the one remaining problem is that many membership apps can only work with PayPal (such as RAP, which I'm currently using). I'm in the process of setting up a completely new system for my membership program so I don't have to rely on PayPal.

very nice post thanks for sharing the tips...I am already using alert pay

great post Suzanne,
Backups are always good, but I still think that pp is the first choice of most people.
The reason that there are not as many horror stories on alertpay & 2co as on pp is because they are not as popular as pp

Jeez, what a nightmare! That would drive me nuts!

I think the bottom line is as soon as you start earning four figures per month and up... time to switch your payment processor to something else.

The problem is that many people trust paypal and it has grown too big for its breeches. Hopefully other companies can become as trusted and give them a run for the money.

Will Alertpay work for Indian merchants?

They can reverse the ACH and you'll lose the money plus an overdraft fee.

Suzanne,

That's the smartest thing I've read today. It's a great lesson on being proactive and having a back up plan.

Though 80% + of our sales go through our merchant account, roughly 10% come from Pay Pal, and the other 10% come from various sources (fax orders, mail orders, people phoning in their order, etc.). I still have a back up plan because you never know. Stuff happens.

RoD

Good advice... Another route to consider is this... Contact aup@paypal.com (I think that's correct but you can check their terms), and request to have your product *approved* by a PayPal team member before marketing it. Once they send a reply with the approval, SAVE IT FOR DEAR LIFE!

Then later on, if you have any problems, show them the approval/reply letter, letting them know THEY approved the product and you followed due diligence in getting it approved before you went live with it. This also gives you more solid legal recourse should anything happen (and they know it).

-Bryan Winters

I have 2 membership sites that bring in 5 figures each month.

Now these have taken a long time to set up and get traffic to.

But I can say, there is no way I am going to just use paypal for these. Too many bad stories with paypal at the moment. Once I started making $3000 a month, it was time to put the backup plan in place.

Always have a backup plan, especially if you do actually have a serious NON-Hobby membership sites, that are real businesses.

This is a great post & a bit of an eye opener!

The PayPal horror stories have got me VERY worried, I don’t personally have products or services taking payments with PayPal but I do use PayPal a few times a week to send payments which are vital to my online business.

I use PayPal to send payments to several outsourcers I use, if PayPal were to close my account I’d be in big trouble. How could I possibly send payments to my outsourcers or buy products & services on the Warrior forum for example?

The whole thing just really worries me.

Check this site out for some truly shocking stores about PayPal - PayPal Complaints

Horror stories. Make sure to spread those eggs out to a bunch of baskets. Thanks for the wake up call!!!

I recommend Serve (free to send and receive money for US residents and it's also by AmEx) and an actual merchant account tied in with Freshbooks.

Heh Heh, I love this
Great job on this post!

Great post, Suzanne! It is important for people to be aware of the dangers of PayPal. They froze my account once with $15,000 in it for six months while they "evaluated" my account and eventually released my funds to my bank account.

I have never had any problems with Alertpay.

I also have used RevolutionMoneyExchange for some transactions with people that I know because it is free and it works great. It does not work with credit cards, but works by transferring to and from checking accounts to your RevolutionMoneyExchange.com account and then from one person's online account to another's. Not great for customers to pay you, but free to pay or receive payment to and from people that you frequently do business with.

Nice post, just bear in mind...

They are still able to pull money out of your linked bank account even if the balance is zero. It has happened to several people in this forum.

Thanks for the useful tips suzanne. Actually most of my clients are using paypal and I haven't yet signed up for alert pay because of this. Wise internet marketers should really have a back up to alleviate risks.

Good advice all round for sure.

Another tip I picked up from someone is to get yourself a security key card or key ring to go with your account. It looks like this:



Every time you login you have to press a little button on your card or key ring and you get a security code generated you have to use as well as your password.

What I was told is that accounts with this extra layer of security are less likely to be frozen due to the decreased likelihood of someone having hacked into your account.

Of course I still take every other precaution I can and treat my account very gently, but it makes me feel better using anyhoo.

Great post! and excellent choices for paypal alternatives btw...AlertPay has been around only since 2004, but it seems very promising.

I'm sure that I'm not using paypal again. Well, thanks for the post, I will try that if I have the guts.

It's always a great idea to have a backup plan, unfortunately Paypal is so big no one knows that there are alternatives

Moneybookers is another very good alternative if you live in Europe and Asia.

Unlike Paypal, they are regulated by government authority of UK.

Things to think about:

1.) AlertPay is the payment processor of choice for many fraud schemes promoted on HYIP/autosurf/money-cycler forums and has an e-Gold-like/E-Bullion-like reputation for turning a blind eye to money-laundering, thus harvesting profits from fraud schemes. When I think of AlertPay, I think of Alfred E. Neuman and the knowing, smarmy smile of plausible deniability.

Plausible deniability, though, doesn't last long as a business model these days.

2.) When an HYIP/autosurf/money-cycler starts showing signs that the "admin" isn't collecting enough cash to sustain the Ponzi or reports surface that the "admin" isn't responding to support requests and perhaps has run with the money, some of the forum hucksters/shills then put on the victims' hat and recommend that "customers" (read: the marks of the hucksters and shills) file disputes with AlertPay. Their hope is that AlertPay (and other Ponzi-friendly payment processors) will receive enough complaints to freeze the fraudster-in-chief's account, thus preventing the further dissipation of cash. (Read: fraud-scheme proceeds of the wink-nod variety.)

One of many examples of this is occurring right now. It involves a "program" known as Club Asteria (CA). Claims about CA, a U.S.-based business that mysteriously appears to issue payments through a Hong Kong subsidiary, are under investigation by Italian regulators. CA trades on the name of the World Bank and, at least for a while, appears to have flown under PayPal's radar.

CA began to slash members' weekly payouts in the spring. (Some promoters claimed CA paid 10 percent a week through a "passive" program that, incongruously, was described as a "program" that was not an "investment" despite the widely advertised "returns." ) The company then claimed its PayPal account had been frozen. After that, it dialed up its efforts to encourage members to use AlertPay and other offshore processors. The long-and-short of it is that CA then announced a cash crisis and the total suspension of payouts. The wink-nod forum shills/hucksters then encouraged their marks to file mass disputes with AlertPay, a clear bid to trap the remaining money.

These worlds are about as seedy and disingenuous as it gets, and AlertPay is immersed in them. After professional shills and hucksters collect vast sums of money in the form of electronic affiliate payments from "programs" such as CA, they then default to a strategy of advising the marks to file disputes or chargeback equivalents with processors such as AlertPay when the "programs" begin to show signs of stress.

Among the common advice given to the marks, who really are the late-entry victims of a Ponzi scheme or pyramid scheme or people who did not retrieve their "earnings" fast enough because they bought into the notion of "compounding," is to tell the processors that the "program" did not come as advertised. In general, this doesn't occur until AFTER the shills and hucksters and insiders have mined the "programs" for every dollar they are worth. Very little money may remain for the victims if the secondary scam of forcing account freezes at the processor level "works."

And if the secondary scam does "work," it may put the remaining money outside the reach of U.S. law enforcement and the courts, while at once putting AlertPay and other processors in the position of acting as a de facto court -- i.e., the processors, as opposed to the real courts, then have to come up with a pro rata refund scheme.

This creates a condition under which some "program" members receive severe haircuts from the processors while others -- the early entrants and profiteers -- receive no haircuts at all.

The U.S. government generally does not announce that a specific program is under investigation until all of its investigative ducks are in a row. If a Ponzi/pyramid/fraud probe and prosecution later emerges -- and if the willfully blind offshore processors happy to harvest fees from scammers already have implemented their own pro rata refund programs -- fewer assets are available to compensate the later entrants because the money doesn't make its way into a common pool formed by the government for victims. This creates a condition under which hucksters and shills can profit handsomely from crime.

SolidTrustPay, a Canadian company like AlertPay, created a deplorable condition during the AdSurfDaily autosurf Ponzi probe in 2008. The U.S. Feds had seized about $80 million of ASD cash in U.S. banks, but at least several million dollars remained in offshore payment processors. As U.S. prosecutors were fashioning a restitution program that would be fair to thousands and thousands of victims -- i.e., the victims all would receive the same haircut -- SolidTrustPay fashioned its own "remedy" with no judicial oversight. This means that the ASD refund pool as constructed by the Feds was smaller and virtually guaranteed that victims would get greater haircuts because SolidTrustPay privately "refunded" some ASD members through a process SolidTrustPay implemented behind closed doors instead of sending the cash to the Feds.

Lots of IMers complain in kneejerk fashion about the evil "regulators" and PayPal. Some of them are less interested in performing an honest analysis of the situation, which is a response to the serious threat posed by money-launderers, viral criminality and EVERYTHING such criminality entails, including the threats of terrorism and organized crime. I have seen cases in which a single crime syndicate formed DOZENS of shell companies and LLCs to keep a criminal enterprise intact -- and there is NO DOUBT that narcotics traffickers are piggybacking off Internet-based fraud schemes to disguise proceeds that flow from the illegal sale of drugs.

IMHO, IMers who are doing business with (or becoming dependent on) lightly regulated Canadian processors or processors based in Central America are putting their own enterprises and reputations at risk. The acceptance of wink-nod business by payment processors followed by disingenuous explanations (read: hoped-for plausible deniability) after the fact are reckless business strategies, especially in the wired world. The security implications are enormous, and no great sovereign nation is going to sit on its hands while its citizens pockets are picked by a confederation of criminals and their wink-nod, flag-waving apologists. Some of the free-market "defenses" for the schemes are tortured beyond all rationality, up to and including arguments that all commerce is lawful if consenting adults enter a contract, an argument that actually brings the slave trade and human bondage back into play if followed to it logical conclusion.

Like eGold (and e-Bullion) before it, wink-nod and willfully blind payment processors are the processors of choice for money-launderers, serial scammers and criminals -- and it's this way at least in part because PayPal has taken a proactive stance against crime and wants no part of a wink-nod commerce stream. Other processors were more than happy to rush in to fill the void, AlertPay among them.

It's worth noting here that James Fayed, E-Bullion's operator, was convicted in May of ordering the contract murder of his wife, a potential witness against him in various fraud cases. Pamela Fayed was found savagely slashed to death in a California parking garage on July 28, 2008. Her husband now faces the death penalty.

E-Bullion, a wink-nod business if ever there was one, has been linked to multiple online Ponzi schemes. Much of its business gravitated to offshore payment processors.

Any person who looks closely at the AdSurfDaily Ponzi case will see references to E-Gold, E-Bullion, SoldTrustPay, AlertPay and CEP Trust, the in-house processor for the CEP Ponzi scheme. They'll also see references to 12DailyPro and PhoenixSurf, two Inertnet-based Ponzi schemes smashed by the U.S. government. (In the cases of CEP, 12DailyPro and PhoenixSurf, the SEC did the smashing. The U.S. Secret Service got the honor of policing up the ASD cash -- and it's worth noting that a self-styled professional "Internet Marketer" and purported expert once had the brainiac notion that one of the best ways AdSurfDaily could expand "sales" was to start using the name of the President of the United States in promos. The Secret Service, doing what it does, effectively set up shop inside ASD and observed and observed and observed. When it was done observing, it went to a federal judge and obtained 15 seizure warrants for bank accounts, including two PERSONAL accounts in the name of ASD President Andy Bowdoin that contained more than $53 million. Bowdoin's 10 personal accounts -- all of which were seized -- contained more than $65.8 million in the aggregate. Just prior to the seizure, Bowdoin allegedly moved "several million" dollars into SolidTrustPay in Canada, and he also allegedly had about $1 million on the island nation of Antigua in an account under a different name. The Allen Stanford Ponzi case involving CDs and Antigua banking emerged a few months after the ASD-related seizures, and autosurf schemes in Central and South America that used Canadian and other offshore processors immediately started to show signs of stress, with some collapsing or announcing payout suspensions/restrictions.)

For all its warts, PayPal wants to be viable for the long term; it wants and needs its brand to mean something -- and meaning something in an age that money moves at the speed of an electronic impulse necessarily means that a company has to take a public stand against money laundering, organized crime and other nefarious pursuits instead of just paying lip service to these very real and very dangerous problems.

It's easy to see the potential consequence to "Internet Marketers" when one reflects on the fact that an "Internet Marketer" once had the brainiac notion that one of the best ways for ASD to attract funds and disarm skeptics was to start trading on the name of the President of the United States.

And, finally, it's worth noting that another brainiac "Internet Marketing" notion that surfaced in the ASD case was that fellow ASD members should click on Google AdSense ads that had been set up in an account that purportedly would benefit ASD -- i.e., proceeds from a click-fraud scheme aimed at Google could result in a new income stream for ASD and/or its participants.

There is precious little doubt that honest IMers are going to become the casualties of professional money-launderers and serial criminals who work as affiliate marketers. The pushing already has begun, as PayPal and banks assess risk and respond to it with a wide brush.

AlertPay needs to tighten its money-laundering controls and stop accepting business from HYIPs/autosurfs/money-cyclers if it wants to emerge as a reputable PayPal alternative, IMHO. Absent that, it is an E-Gold or E-Bullion in waiting, and no great sovereign nation is going to sit idly by while the resources of its citizens disappear down ratholes in the murkiest corners of the Internet.

Patrick

You can actually get the $49 application fee for 2CheckOut waived using a discount code: http://www.retailmenot.com/view/2checkout.com

I signed up myself on Monday and am still waiting for approval. I don't know if they tend to take longer on free applications or not. Their site claimed many get approved the same day. Still, probably worth it to save the 50 bucks!

_________
Jeremy

A friend of mine reads your post and says, "No thanks, I'm gonna ride this Paypal train till the wheels fall off!".

Loyalty or laziness? :rolleyes:

Thanks for posting, Suzanne. I never had major problems with paypal but it's good to have a backup.

i do a gree, the only problem is that most of people use paypal as their payment processor, but as you state on your post, is not reliable to put all your eggs in one basket, thats why ts better use diffrent ones

Great post Suzanne. It is obviously helping people.

Jeffery 100% :-)

A few random examples (current as of today). Please note that the "sales pitch" provided below includes only one element of the pitch. "Programs" often advertise multiple earnings "plans."

Name of "opportunity": Metalito
Sales pitch: 190 percent after 45 days. Max. investment $70,000.
Advertised Processors: *LibertyReserve, AlertPay, *PerfectMoney
Sales venue: Known Ponzi forums listed in federal court documents as such.

NOTES: An autosurf known as "MegaLido" -- as opposed to the HYIP "Metalito" -- tanked in the aftermath of the AdSurfDaily seizure. The collapse occurred after MegaLido was positioned as a safe, "offshore" alternative to ASD. MegaLido's estimated membership was 27,000. MegaLido also was popular with members of the Noobing autosurf, which targeted deaf people. Noobing operated under the umbrella of a company later sued by the FTC in a government-grants scam. With respect to "MegaLido" and "Metalito," it is common for later scams to mimic the names of earlier scams. It also is common for the schemes to use the name of a metal or precious gem.

Name of "opportunity": CenturionWealthCircle
Sales pitch: 200% return from each $15 investment.
Advertised Processors: AlertPay
Sales venue: Known Ponzi forums listed in federal court documents as such.

NOTES: The website of CenturionWealthCircle, a money-cycler, mysteriously disappeared on or about July 28. The DNS suggested that the domain had been suspended for spam and abuse. The site returned, apparently after arranging new hosting. Members were complaining about low or absent payouts even before the site disappeared. CenturionWealthCircle now claims it is introducing a "feeder" program. If true, it means a Ponzi will be feeding a Ponzi. The "experts" are telling the marks to make sure they jump on board the feeder to give CenturionWealthCicle a chance to resurrect itself.

Name of "opportunity": PremiumFinancials
Sales pitch: Pay $1,500. Earn 4,320 percent interest in 120 days.
Advertised Processors: LibertyReserve , Perfect Money, AlertPay, SoldTrustPay (pending).
Sales venue: Known Ponzi forums listed in federal court documents as such.

NOTES: Says it experienced recent DDoS attack.

Name of "opportunity": HourlyEarn
Sales pitch: 17 percent hourly for seven hours.
Advertised Processors: LibertyReserve , Perfect Money, AlertPay,
Sales venue: Known Ponzi forums listed in federal court documents as such.

NOTES: "Programs" that purport to pay interest hourly are becoming increasingly common.

* Some Warriors may be interested to know that LibertyReserve (Costa Rica) and PerfectMoney (Panama) are identified in federal court filings as the payment processors for the Imperia Invest IBC fraud scheme, which, like the Noobing autosurf, targeted deaf investors. The money appears to have been whisked quickly to Cyprus and New Zealand.

Patrick

Very useful advice. Cheers.

This has certainly been a very intriguing and useful thread, many thanks to Suzanne for posting it and for the great responses within it.

Like many other Warriors my partner and I have been very concerned about having all of our "eggs in one basket" with PayPal, especially as one of our current products and three of our upcoming ones are recurring payment products. We do currently use ClickBank as well, but the lions share of our revenue comes from PayPal. We also use PayPal to pay our VA's, whose work is invaluable to us. Losing PayPal would literally kill our business as it stands now, and I don't like that one bit!

I have actually spent a few hours today "playing" in the AlertPay Sandbox, writing and testing IPN code in preparation for using both AlertPay and PayPal as payment options for our current and future offerings. I have to admit that I am impressed with the documentation and resources AlertPay has provided for this. I'm also impressed that AlertPay has a representative (Chris@AlertPay) on this forum, it makes me feel that the company is open to working with Internet Marketers. And I'll also confess that the fact that they are located here in Montreal and that I might even be able to go down and visit them hasn't escaped me either (although our business is actually located in the US).

While I have yet to have an unpleasant experience with Paypal (to the contrary they have all been good or even excellent) the horror stories reported by some fellow Warriors has been cause for concern. The nightmare faced by Rob (ccmusicman) earlier this week was particularly disturbing, as I know him to be someone of great integrity - if it could happen to him then it could happen to us as well.

The reviews of AlertPay and the recommendations of fellow Warriors make it seem like an ideal solution. But I also have noted a few posts, particularly the two by Patrick Pretty, that cast some negative light upon AlertPay. I would be very interested to see a response from Chris regarding this.

We have yet to apply to AlertPay, and before we make the commitment I'd still like to get more information and hear more users experiences. So once again thank you to all who have participated in this thread, these types of threads are what makes the Warrior Forum a truly indispensable resource fore anyone doing business on the Internet.

Bill

Susanne

Thanks for starting a great thread. Been busy, taken me a few days to get here to post.

Like you I read Rob (ccmusicman's) post and decided it was time to get back ups/alternatives in place. Like you I went to 2co.checkout.

I applied on Sunday or Monday - got an email from them last night. Couple fo things I need to add to my site (privacy policy/refund policy) and I'm up and running.

I'll still be using Paypal - but I'll be switching new membership subscribers over to 2co.checkout. How are you getting on with your application?



Paul

PS to Rob - I'd be interested in following your blog on your Paypal dispute....I'll PM you.

Nice post! very good information indeed. Yes, a backup plan is a necessity. You can't rely only on PayPal.


- Steve

Paypal is becoming too much strict these days! The main problem is - WE CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT PAYPAL! People from 190+ countries use paypal!!!

Great post Suzanne... Any good business person should always have a few payment alternatives.

I was initially thinking of going with Paypal but since reading this thread and ccmusicmans thread -http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ut-paypal.html - I've also started looking into other options.

I'll definitely take a look at AlertPay, 2CO, Plimus and Clickbank.

Thanks for the heads up.

Looks good.

Nicely Explained.

Wow! This is such a GREAT discussion! Much needed and appreciated. Some really good advice on here. Warriors are so helpful!!!

Thanks for nice info.
Will they actually work with other contries that they dont work now with?

Great post, many years ago when I set up my online art business I actually had PayPal suspend my account for no apparant reason. I lost close to 2k dollars and had to source an alternative. Though I'm now in the MMO high risk bracket running an online business subscription directory I am well aware of how ruthless PayPal can be, thanks for sharing.

Thank's Suzanne, this is important information and strategies to share...

It hasn't been mentioned, but one downside to AlertPay from what I've been hearing/reading is considerably lower conversion rates. I've seen 40% less conversions quoted on the forum.

PayPal has a brand advantage that shows up in customer's willingness to buy using them. I'd be interested to hear if any warriors have used AlertPay and compared it's impact on conversion to PayPal?
_____
Bruce

A very useful post. I am planning to use Moneybookers as an alternative.

paypal is worse in India. it has imposed many restrictions. we can't purchase using our paypal fund.

Any other Paypal Alternatives that people are using? I'm still waiting to hear from 2CO

This is exactly what I described when Rob got screwed a couple weeks ago with PayPal. I've been doing it for quite some time now, and I suggest everyone look into it.

What I do is have one account, say TD Canada Trust, and I withdrawal money from PayPal and deposit into that account. Then when the funds have been deposited, I go into TD Canada Trust online and send myself an e-mail money transfer to my account at CIBC. It costs $1.50 for the e-mail money transfer, but is still less than it would cost be in gas to drive to the bank and physically withdrawal the money and drive to CIBC to make a deposit.

Remember I'm in Canada. I'm not sure if your bank will call it an e-mail money transfer where you live, but they should have something similar.

If PayPal ever decides to shut me down and pull a stunt like hey did with Rob and take thousands out of my account for refunds, well, they aren't getting it cause the money is simply in another account totally not connected with PayPal.

I'm going to look at Alert Pay right now. Never used it before but obviously worth a look to use as my backup's backup

Yes, I think more people using different payment processors will definitely help businesses and people to implement and accept payments through other processors. Paypal has spoiled the market.

@ Ashishaffiliate
I also share the same name as yours, Btw aren't you having a credit card to use with paypal ? What payment processors other than paypal do you use ?.

Great post and i absolutely agreed,
i got Paypal and AlertPay acct.

In short, never put all your eggs
inside one basket.

Anyone using Online Ecommerce Shopping Cart Software & Ecommerce Automation and if so, any good?

Quick addendum:

There have been lots of comments here recently concerning marketing on YouTube and whether Google is going to give IMers the boot.

It's worth noting that an IMer/promoter of the Club Asteria HYIP used PayPal's name on YouTube to sanitize the scheme -- along with intellectual property stolen from Warner Music Group.

Patrick

Happy that I have an AlertPay account as well. Think I WILL looking into 2CO too. Thanks Suzanne!

I have used AlertPay for several years. I have never had any problems. Each year there have been improvements in site navigation, speed, and support. In my opinion it is every bit as good as PayPal.

To: CHRIS from ALERTPAY: Where on earth are you already??? There is no excuse for not responding to these statements/queries regarding AlertPay and Ponzi schemes. While Paypal is irresponsible for not following due process in investigating vendors' accounts, they do need to exercise diligence in stopping online fraud. AlertPay needs to get on the ball as well. This thread is fantastic in presenting all points of view--now where is Chris??

I have had a mixed experience with PayPal, several times I have had my account frozen, with a request to forward them proof of residency or some other document. It has always been pretty simple and quick to get this resolved.

However, what I find puzzling is the repeated requests (over two or three years) for the same documentation, I must have had the account frozen three or four times now, and had to send the exact same documentation each time, exact copies, each time the documentation was identical. Seems a little odd to me, it's just wasting everybodies time.

I guess I have been very lucky, as of yet, I have never had a problem with paypal that wasn't resolved over the phone with customer support.
Does anyone remember yowcow? (just curious)

Some good points and tips. I did this years ago. =)

I love alertpay too. Used it for 6 month and never had any issue. Their Customer Services is very good.

For paypal you will got their respone around 1 month up lol. And they can suspended your account without any noticed.

Not leave everything on internet/paypal.

great thread - some interesting posts for sure... i haven't had any serious issues with Paypal and actually found them helpful in certain circumstances am processing thousands of dollars monthly through them, but it does concern me that at the flick of a button it could all stop. Certainly if they reversed payment i would be screwed!

Have been looking at a number of backup payment gateways, including 2CO and authorize.net - one of the newer models out there right now is a company called Stripe. I recently just got invited to trial the system but I was just wondering if anyone else had tried them out and had any comments about them? Or do i have to be the guinea pig here! lol

*SIGH* not like Suzanne needs the help but: WE GET IT.....lay off her will ya?

Summary of this thread in less than 20 words: don't rely solely on one payment process. Have several backups. 'nuff said.

/thread

The thing with 2CO is that all of your sales have to come from one domain. So in order to use them for everything I sell, I would have to make a payment page on the one domain I submitted to them for that product.

The site I submitted was specifically for building mobile websites, so I will use 2CO for that at least but I could probably also add in other services as long as all of your services or products come from the one site.

Wish it weren't like that, but it is. While my business is largely graphic design, I operate as a sole proprietor so I didn't have to submit any business documents to 2CO, but you would have to have one site to do business from with 2CO.

I feel that if your running a completely fair, moral, and ethical business, then you should have no trouble with Paypal.

It's pretty difficult to set up a business account if you have poor credit (millions of unemployed people are in this group), so you have to start small and simple if you want to make money online. Also, while enough has been said on this thread re AlertPay, etc., the fact remains that money processors who allow criminal activity do affect all IMers, so ignoring that won't make the issue go away. However, don't expect IMers to turn away from AlertPay, etc. because they do need an alternative to Paypal. Paypal may be shutting down criminal activity, but they are committing criminal activity themselves in denying due process to the many honest vendors that they shut down. OP made legitimate points re Paypal. Patrick made legitimate points re AlertPay. Are we done here? Terrific thread with lots of great info. And Chris of AlertPay is a total jerk for refusing to respond to Patrick's points. NOT COOL!!

Lots of great tips! Thx!

Thanks, Suzanne, for these tips. I shared similar tips on this thread:

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-problems.html

No doubts, MANY people have had their accounts terminated
who didn't do any significant wrong, apart from just being unaware
of the things they were supposed to do. I still feel that if majority
of us want to avoid problems with paypal, we should do as much
of what they require as possible.

Edit: I have also referenced this thread on that thread, to get
more people on the "know" re what is needed to be on the safe
side of Paypal,

Kingsley


.

Thanks for the reminder to have backup payment options in place.

UPDATE ON MY ALERT PAY ACCOUNT

I just received an email from AlertPay. They finished reviewing my site, plrstyle.com

Here's the email:

My business is selling blogs that I design. Period. It's not even close to an MLM, nor is it Affiliate Marketing. There's no way I will use a payment processor that categorizes my site as either of those.

So I've closed the AlertPay account. End of test for AlertPay for me.

I've been accepted by 2CO and will be testing out their usefulness to my business and looking for other alternatives, but AlertPay is out for me (and not for any of the reasons that PP has stated in this thread). If that were the case, I would also have to rule out Paypal and probably most other money processors.

This is absolutely not true. I worked for one of the largest banks in the United States for over 8 years. They can and will reverse the deposit whether money is in your account or not. If there is no money, it will just overdraw your account and leave you with a negative balance, which if you do not rectify in a given amount of time, the bank will charge off the account and send it to collections.

If you moved the money into an account at the same bank, they will simply grab the funds from that account to bring your account to a zero balance.

It is no different than if you deposited a fraudulent check into your account. A lot of people think that if it "clears" in a few days they are safe. If it is reported as fraud, even 6 weeks later, the check will be charged back to your account. That is how so many of these lottery scams work.

Thanks for the tips. But now, I don't have any trouble with Paypal except for the delay sometimes to get it in to my bank accounts.

Wow, for once I'm ahead of the curve with 2 bank accounts. I already do that part of the advice not because I am afraid of PayPal but because I've always been afraid of someone hacking my PayPal.

But since it is the only payment method I have right now, I'll have to rethink that part of it.

Mercedes
writetherightstuff.com web writing services

I use PayPal and never been in that situation but I would say Suzzane that this is one great information to have my lights turned on...

Thanks for posting.

My main beef with paypal is that they will not give you a paypal debit card unless you have a bank account attached to the account, AND you send the card to a physical address. I lived in the mountains for years where there was not rural delivery, and all my mail was done via a post office box - and that kept Paypal from letting me have a debit card. Of course their one account per person limit also sucks because I like to keep different websites paying into different accounts (easier to track money that way), especially if one site is a jv with someone else. I actually have 4 accounts at paypal but I am very careful to keep all details in each account completely different - from phone numbers, to connected credit cards (I actually have one tied to a moneytree credit card of all things-but it works) and physical addresses. So far, they haven't shut me down, though I know I'm playing with fire if I start pulling big bucks and they audit me. So I'm definitely looking at backup options.

I do like the one suggestion to get sites pre-approved by paypal before going live. I had seen that advice elsewhere as well, so I suspect there is something to it.

Anyone use authorize.net for anything? I have several clients using them, clients that came to me with pre-existing accounts there.

I looked into 2Co a while ago..While Im not completely sure of, it seems they handle sales taxes, and that is a great feature. However last time I looked into it, their chargeback fee was looking high to me. I'd love to hear your opinions regarding their services terms.

This may be a little off topic here but some of you may like squareup.com for point of sale payments. I'm set up with them but haven't tried them out yet.

From their site:

2.75% per swipe for all cards
One simple rate, including American Express.
Next-day payout
Automatic direct deposits to your bank account.
Free reader, free app
For iPhone, iPad, iPod touch and Android.
Fast setup
Take your first credit card payment in minutes.

Is there a cost needed to sign-up an account at AlertPay? My first time to hear that though and thanks for sharing this info

always have a backup plan.

that is the overall message i hear in here. And if you are relying on paypal as your number one payment processor then you are not following this rule. Backup of a backup plan.

Yes you are right and i am agree with you. Thanks for sharing knowledge with us.

If only I could give you 10x the THANKS then I already did. Thanks a lot for this post.

Great advice.

I totally agree with this - "get two bank accounts. After you make a Paypal withdrawal and it hits your bank account, go take it out of that account and put it into the account that is not connected to Paypal. Simple. Then they cannot touch it."

I can't find any other advice better than this. Thanks.

Kind Regards,
Anson

Stripe: That's one I haven't heard of yet. Will look it up. I just posted another thread about Amazon Payments. I couldn't believe how easy it was to sign up and get a business account. Didn't even realize that Amazon had this.

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-payments.html

Thank you but i am still afriad of paypal for my new launch. i dont want them to limit my account when i make lots of money from launch. i think i will look for other type payment system than paypal.

Thanks to this post, I just setup a new alertpay account...

I trust paypal at the moment, nice post anyway!

Thanks for the tips! Withdrawing your money regularly is the best option - PayPal even gives automatic daily withdrawals to your bank account if you wish.

I haven't done million dollars with PayPal yet, but consistently in two figures / month for quite some time. And I haven't had problems yet.

I think it's also got to do a lot with the kind of products you sell, disputes from customers and getting caught in whatever algorithm PayPal is running to reduce / prevent troubles for its users...

Just learned about this, signed up and got approved. Suited perfectly for offlline marketers but will work for some onliners as well.

I learned about it from this Warrior Forum link: http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ds-paypal.html

Evie offers you this Free Report and this is how I'm going to handle payments from my clients from now on. Killer!

Accept credit cards on your site using a webcam.

Jumio Netswipe Review – How To Accept Credit Cards With a Webcam : Web Video Secrets Podcast – WebVideoUniversity.com

what is the advantage of having a Pro/Premium account instead of a business account with paypal?

No matter what, never put all of your eggs in one basket.

Anything can happen and you need to spread around your risk.

Ciao,
Evie

Great post Suzanne, I had some problems with paypal lately and I was looking to change merchant thank you for your advice.

Simon

Great advices and good information. My best advice is to withdraw your money at a weekly basis, because you never know what the next blind-shoot PayPal is planning.

Never had a limited account but I know dudes that have,
Mike Tyler.

Thanks diversification is always great advice. I recently signed up to alertpay as an alternative. Looking forward to checking out their service.

Luckily I have not had too many problems with PayPal, although I only use it for my smaller volume products and services. I use Flagship Merchant services for my larger products. Great info.

Great advice here

Thanks for the suggestion. I heard about AlertPay just a week back but haven't check on them yet. Hopefully, I could have open an account with these 2 suggested sites as well.

Thanks for the good advice