Are You Afraid of Paypal? Here's What You Do.

by sbucciarel Banned
222 replies
First off I have to say that I have never had a limited account or a suspended account with Paypal. No problems. But I read the forum and the Paypal stories are pretty scary.

When you consider that you can have a subscription service and have your entire income wiped out by Paypal cancelling all the subscriptions and refunding people money who didn't ask for refunds.

Then going into your bank account and pulling out funds that you recently deposited from Paypal. It happens all the time.

I know that Paypal is a company that has to minimize it's risk and I even know that some of these people are high risk dream sellers. My business is pretty much service based (building websites for people), but if you sell Internet Marketing products (ebooks), you may be more susceptible to Paypal limiting your account and holding all of your money.

Are you going to just sit around and end up sh*t creek if and when it happens to you?

Not me. I just signed up for a business account at AlertPay. It took all of 1/2 hour to set up the account, my credit card, verification, my bank account, etc. and even set up my subscription service.

I can now change my links at a moment's notice and continue to do business. I can also switch my links and start selling my membership through AlertPay subscriptions rather than Paypal. I would keep the members that I already have in Paypal there, but new ones would be in AlertPay.

But I didn't stop there.

I also signed up for 2CO. Cost $49 application fee, but my business is worth $49. Waiting for approval after submitting all my info. If that goes through, I would then have 3 payment processors to use and could continue to operate my businesses even if Paypal shut me down.

If you're in the higher risk (Make Money Online) business, I suggest you get off your butts and get yourself some alternatives. NOW. Don't wait for a disaster to happen.

Tips for Paypal

1. I have never withdrawn all my money on a regular basis. I always leave about 2/3 of my money in Paypal and use it for expenses. They have no reason to get nervous that chargebacks (which I rarely ever get) will occur without any funds to cover them.

2. If you are in the high risk MMO niche, get two bank accounts. After you make a Paypal withdrawal and it hits your bank account, go take it out of that account and put it into the account that is not connected to Paypal. Simple. Then they cannot touch it.

Hopefully this will provide a little motivation to get you moving to make yourself a backup plan.

I did and I feel safer now.
#afraid #paypal
  • Profile picture of the author RAMarketing
    Excellent post and I completely agree, why not have multiple processors? There is even a cheap WP script that will rotate your BIN links between up to 6 merchant accounts. I think 6 might be excessive, but 2-3 backups never hurt anyone.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    These are good tips.

    I too run a service, and it was that services paypal that got shut down.

    I would also be wary to run any subscription based services or membership sites through paypal. Credit card only, and if possible, don't use 3rd party scripts (with memberships - recurring)

    This means getting a merchant account and a shopping cart. Get a backup merchant account and if one ever shuts you down, you can switch your recurring customers to another merchant account in 2 clicks, or 3 with some shopping carts.

    Suzanne is right, be sure to have backups. Your business is worth it, trust me!

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by RAMarketing View Post

      Excellent post and I completely agree, why not have multiple processors? There is even a cheap WP script that will rotate your BIN links between up to 6 merchant accounts. I think 6 might be excessive, but 2-3 backups never hurt anyone.
      That script sounds interesting. Got a link to it?

      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      These are good tips.

      I too run a service, and it was that services paypal that got shut down.

      I would also be wary to run any subscription based services or membership sites through paypal. Credit card only, and if possible, don't use 3rd party scripts (with memberships - recurring)

      This means getting a merchant account and a shopping cart. Get a backup merchant account and if one ever shuts you down, you can switch your recurring customers to another merchant account in 2 clicks, or 3 with some shopping carts.

      Suzanne is right, be sure to have backups. Your business is worth it, trust me!

      Rob
      It was your story Rob that finally got me off my can to get some backup plan going.
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      • Profile picture of the author Shannon Herod
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        That script sounds interesting. Got a link to it?

        I know Nanacast has this ability. It is always good to run subscriptions through credit cards. I am actually making the switch myself. Currently my business is about 80/20. 80% PayPal and 20% credit card.

        However, I am no longer accepting subscription-based payments through PayPal. Credit card only. So, that number will hopefully be flopped within the next six months.
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  • Profile picture of the author BXPS
    Are there any other alternatives to paypal.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by BXPS View Post

      Are there any other alternatives to paypal.
      lol ... Did you read any of the post? I gave you two.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sherry Driedger
    I think a lot of people who have been reading about what can happen using paypal will appreciate this post, myself included.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Morris
      Banned
      Great post Suzanne! OK just a little noob question..Can Alertpay be used to collect payments from Paypal?
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by David Morris View Post

        Great post Suzanne! OK just a little noob question..Can Alertpay be used to collect payments from Paypal?
        No, but that's why I made my application with 2C0. Customers can pay with Paypal or a credit card.
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  • Profile picture of the author SpinnerHawk
    That's exactly what I did, I reactivated my 2checkout account last week and just confirmed my alertpay verification.

    @David Morris
    I'm afraid you can't with alertpay, but you can do it with 2checkout.
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  • Profile picture of the author gerry.c
    Thanks! I already do the bank account trick... but, have always been a little nervous about using alternative gateways because there are so many shady ones out there that can't be trusted so, I've not gone down that road.

    Thanks for the tips.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by gerry.c View Post

      Thanks! I already do the bank account trick... but, have always been a little nervous about using alternative gateways because there are so many shady ones out there that can't be trusted so, I've not gone down that road.

      Thanks for the tips.
      I think you can trust 2CO and AlertPay. They've been around for quite awhile and think about it ... you just don't hear the horror stories about those companies. If there's anything shady going on ... I would take a look in the direction that all the smoke is coming from.
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        I've had an "standby" account at AlertPay for quite so time now, just in case.
        I agree with Suzanne, it's worth the extra time to set things up so that you have a back-up plan
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  • Profile picture of the author Onora Oz
    Great post, thank you! I don't have any problems with PayPal (haven't had any in the past) but still... Because I believe in 'minimizing the risks' for my business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Charlotte Jay
    Alertpay has been a pain in the arse for me. They LOST my verification paperwork. Twice. I gave up after that. I think I will try again since it's been a while. It's always a good idea to have a backup plan though.
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    • Profile picture of the author azmanar
      Originally Posted by Charlotte Jay View Post

      Alertpay has been a pain in the arse for me. They LOST my verification paperwork. Twice. I gave up after that. I think I will try again since it's been a while. It's always a good idea to have a backup plan though.
      Alertpay has 3 types of accounts:
      -> Personal
      -> Personal Pro
      -> Biz account

      You can do biz with Personal Pro, if you want to.

      My 2CO account became redundant when I focused on making money offline, several years ago. Now have to create another account.

      As for PayPal, I'll retain it for making tiny payments. I think this is the only thing PayPal is good at right now.

      MoneyBookers has an issue so far. I heard buyers have had to use SMS verifications for making payments. This is not a good thing for people living outside of Europe. Bad for biz.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by azmanar View Post

        Alertpay has 3 types of accounts:
        -> Personal
        -> Personal Pro
        -> Biz account

        You can do biz with Personal Pro, if you want to.
        I saw that and just went straight for business. Thought I could always go back and do Personal Pro if I had to but it went without a hitch on Business.
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris@AlertPay
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          I saw that and just went straight for business. Thought I could always go back and do Personal Pro if I had to but it went without a hitch on Business.
          Glad you had an easy time setting up an AlertPay account!

          We here definitely agree that having multiple Payment Processor options is a good idea. A) Even if you don't use AlertPay as often as your main processor it is always there as an option if you need it, and B) Some people may actually prefer AlertPay, especially if you do business internationally.

          As well, AlertPay has been growing rapidly over the past few years and is becoming more of a mainstream option for many businesses!

          ChriZ
          Online Community Support
          AlertPay.com
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          Follow AlertPay on Facebook, and @AskAlertPay on Twitter!
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          • Profile picture of the author professorrosado
            Originally Posted by Chris@AlertPay View Post

            Glad you had an easy time setting up an AlertPay account!

            We here definitely agree that having multiple Payment Processor options is a good idea. A) Even if you don't use AlertPay as often as your main processor it is always there as an option if you need it, and B) Some people may actually prefer AlertPay, especially if you do business internationally.

            As well, AlertPay has been growing rapidly over the past few years and is becoming more of a mainstream option for many businesses!

            ChriZ
            Online Community Support
            AlertPay.com
            This is very true. I recently had a few inquiries about customers preferring to use AlertPay. In business - give your customers OPTIONS! And give yourself options too!
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  • Profile picture of the author Christophe Young
    Good post. Looking at these two options, it appears Alert Pay is just like Paypal as far as fees, but AP can't accept PP payments.

    2CO has the following fees:
    • $49 one-time application fee (per account)
    • 5.5% and $0.45 per sale
    Not bad, and they can accept Paypal payments. But, I wonder if you can integrate 2CO with e-junkie or any other secure digital delivery mechanism. I would also like to integrate with an affiliate management script as well.

    I'll have to take a closer look at it.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Christophe Young View Post

      Good post. Looking at these two options, it appears Alert Pay is just like Paypal as far as fees, but AP can't accept PP payments.

      2CO has the following fees:
      • $49 one-time application fee (per account)
      • 5.5% and $0.45 per sale
      Not bad, and they can accept Paypal payments. But, I wonder if you can integrate 2CO with e-junkie or any other secure digital delivery mechanism. I would also like to integrate with an affiliate management script as well.

      I'll have to take a closer look at it.
      My favorite payment/delivery program is DLGuard and both AlertPay and 2CO integrate with DLGuard. One time payment for DLGuard with as many products as you want to load onto it ... I wouldn't want to do without it.

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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
      Originally Posted by Christophe Young View Post

      ....Not bad, and they can accept Paypal payments. But, I wonder if you can integrate 2CO with e-junkie or any other secure digital delivery mechanism. I would also like to integrate with an affiliate management script as well.

      I'll have to take a closer look at it.
      Chris, I use e-Junkie a lot and according to the admin area inside e-Junkie, they support 2CO, PayPal, TrialPay, GoogleCheckout, Authorize.Net and Clickbank.
      _____
      Bruce
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Miranda
    Great post. I use Paypal as my primary but a percentage of sales do go through my merchant account. I really want to use 2CO but my shopping cart 'Cart66' does not support it. I wonder if a programmer could make 2CO work with my unsupported shopping cart?
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  • Profile picture of the author socky
    Banned
    Ugh, I can't stand PayPal. Plimus is great though if you're a vendor.
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  • Profile picture of the author Union
    Ok, here is my Story with PayPal:
    In 2008, ive got in one month about $8000 in my PayPal account, from my clients. Now, PayPal, without any notifications, Cancel all my Transactions and Refunded all My Funds to my Clients. Many of them sent to me Messages and asked how they can Refund my Money Back, cause they saw a Refund from me. I charged them other way, And Start to Call PayPal... After about 3 months of Talking with those Guys, i didnt resolved my issue with them, And i asked to have my Products Returned if they took my Money, But They Avoid to Help me, so, i was OUT of bussines... I wanna tell you guys, that PayPal is a SCAM COMPANY, you cant Belive how Stupid they are, i've got HOURS of CONVERSATION with them, i asked my Lawyer to help me, we was about to Open a case on PayPal, But then we realized that those guys are very Intrasparent, Its Imposible to Open cases on Them, Especially if you are from Other States. When my lawyer called them, they asked for Documentations, we Provide them with, 100%, they told us that they have everything, and soon they will Refund my Money Back, After 3 Months they Told me that My Case is too Old and they Cancel it, and if i want money back or my Goods Back, i need to Call Each my previous Customer and Resolv by my Self my Problem, They Dont care about it any more....
    So, i've got all my Money Back, exept from one Customer, he keep my item and my Money and avoid to Refund...
    So, guys, Be very Carefull with PayPal, They are very Stupid. Every day we have Conversation with them, and Today one Representative Told us One thing, Tomorrow Other guy Told us something else, and this was for 3 Months...


    I never got any Problems with PayPal Before, ive got thru them 1000's $ and never got any issue. But, in one day i lost more than in 3 years

    P.S. I Sold Goods, from Factory, im affiliate with some Companies, and have every new Product in my Hand Early than Product are on Massive Market. PayPal Contacted Factory and THEY RECOGNIZED me as Their Sales Person with 100% Rights, They Provide to PayPal all our transactions and every piece of paper PayPal asked for.

    Good Luck Guys
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    • Profile picture of the author sam770
      Thx for sharing,
      So, may I ask if you still with paypal? or today your main payment processor is a different company?

      Originally Posted by Union View Post

      Ok, here is my Story with PayPal:
      In 2008, ive got in one month about $8000 in my PayPal account, from my clients. Now, PayPal, without any notifications, Cancel all my Transactions and Refunded all My Funds to my Clients. Many of them sent to me Messages and asked how they can Refund my Money Back, cause they saw a Refund from me. I charged them other way, And Start to Call PayPal... After about 3 months of Talking with those Guys, i didnt resolved my issue with them, And i asked to have my Products Returned if they took my Money, But They Avoid to Help me, so, i was OUT of bussines... I wanna tell you guys, that PayPal is a SCAM COMPANY, you cant Belive how Stupid they are, i've got HOURS of CONVERSATION with them, i asked my Lawyer to help me, we was about to Open a case on PayPal, But then we realized that those guys are very Intrasparent, Its Imposible to Open cases on Them, Especially if you are from Other States. When my lawyer called them, they asked for Documentations, we Provide them with, 100%, they told us that they have everything, and soon they will Refund my Money Back, After 3 Months they Told me that My Case is too Old and they Cancel it, and if i want money back or my Goods Back, i need to Call Each my previous Customer and Resolv by my Self my Problem, They Dont care about it any more....
      So, i've got all my Money Back, exept from one Customer, he keep my item and my Money and avoid to Refund...
      So, guys, Be very Carefull with PayPal, They are very Stupid. Every day we have Conversation with them, and Today one Representative Told us One thing, Tomorrow Other guy Told us something else, and this was for 3 Months...


      I never got any Problems with PayPal Before, ive got thru them 1000's $ and never got any issue. But, in one day i lost more than in 3 years

      P.S. I Sold Goods, from Factory, im affiliate with some Companies, and have every new Product in my Hand Early than Product are on Massive Market. PayPal Contacted Factory and THEY RECOGNIZED me as Their Sales Person with 100% Rights, They Provide to PayPal all our transactions and every piece of paper PayPal asked for.

      Good Luck Guys
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      • Profile picture of the author Union
        Originally Posted by sam770 View Post

        Thx for sharing,
        So, may I ask if you still with paypal? or today your main payment processor is a different company?
        Yes, u can ask Nope, no more PayPal for bussines. Are u Serious ??? i Lost 8000 $ in 5 min. without any explications, how can i trust this guys ???
        I have PayPal now, but im using maybe once, twice a month, Only when im buying something and i dont want to share other my info with sites i dont trust.
        Now, i have a lot of emails from them, to join in Bussines Acc. But i dont want to hear about...
        If you cant have your own Payment Procesor, Find alternatives, better 2-3, Keep your pocket in Safety, dont think that u never got any problems and you'll be fine, it can be in any Moment.
        I wish you Good Luck and hope you'll never get my experience...

        Thx
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    • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
      Originally Posted by Union View Post

      But, in one day i lost more than in 3 years
      Doesn't sound like a statement worthy of a smiley face, lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author PatrickP
      Originally Posted by Union View Post

      Ok, here is my Story with PayPal:
      In 2008, ive got in one month about $8000 in my PayPal account, from my clients. Now, PayPal, without any notifications, Cancel all my Transactions and Refunded all My Funds to my Clients. Many of them sent to me Messages and asked how they can Refund my Money Back, cause they saw a Refund from me. I charged them other way, And Start to Call PayPal... After about 3 months of Talking with those Guys, i didnt resolved my issue with them, And i asked to have my Products Returned if they took my Money, But They Avoid to Help me, so, i was OUT of bussines... I wanna tell you guys, that PayPal is a SCAM COMPANY, you cant Belive how Stupid they are, i've got HOURS of CONVERSATION with them, i asked my Lawyer to help me, we was about to Open a case on PayPal, But then we realized that those guys are very Intrasparent, Its Imposible to Open cases on Them, Especially if you are from Other States. When my lawyer called them, they asked for Documentations, we Provide them with, 100%, they told us that they have everything, and soon they will Refund my Money Back, After 3 Months they Told me that My Case is too Old and they Cancel it, and if i want money back or my Goods Back, i need to Call Each my previous Customer and Resolv by my Self my Problem, They Dont care about it any more....
      So, i've got all my Money Back, exept from one Customer, he keep my item and my Money and avoid to Refund...
      So, guys, Be very Carefull with PayPal, They are very Stupid. Every day we have Conversation with them, and Today one Representative Told us One thing, Tomorrow Other guy Told us something else, and this was for 3 Months...


      I never got any Problems with PayPal Before, ive got thru them 1000's $ and never got any issue. But, in one day i lost more than in 3 years

      P.S. I Sold Goods, from Factory, im affiliate with some Companies, and have every new Product in my Hand Early than Product are on Massive Market. PayPal Contacted Factory and THEY RECOGNIZED me as Their Sales Person with 100% Rights, They Provide to PayPal all our transactions and every piece of paper PayPal asked for.

      Good Luck Guys

      Very similar to what happened to me. My atty sent them over 40 pages of documentation. They did not reply for 3 weeks and then said it was past the 90 days(by 2 days) and they legally did not have to do anything.

      The customer received the items (was sent via UPS and had his signature as having received) AND he got to keep the $12,400 Pay Pal refunded him.

      For me only credit card processors no more Pay Pal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
    Excellent advice Suzanne. I do have an AlertPay account as a backup, but the one remaining problem is that many membership apps can only work with PayPal (such as RAP, which I'm currently using). I'm in the process of setting up a completely new system for my membership program so I don't have to rely on PayPal.
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  • Profile picture of the author simonbuzz
    Banned
    very nice post thanks for sharing the tips...I am already using alert pay
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  • Profile picture of the author sam770
    great post Suzanne,
    Backups are always good, but I still think that pp is the first choice of most people.
    The reason that there are not as many horror stories on alertpay & 2co as on pp is because they are not as popular as pp
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  • Profile picture of the author Christophe Young
    Ok, here is my Story with PayPal:
    In 2008...
    Jeez, what a nightmare! That would drive me nuts!

    I think the bottom line is as soon as you start earning four figures per month and up... time to switch your payment processor to something else.
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    • Profile picture of the author Union
      Originally Posted by Christophe Young View Post

      Jeez, what a nightmare! That would drive me nuts!

      I think the bottom line is as soon as you start earning four figures per month and up... time to switch your payment processor to something else.
      I told you guys, PayPal was one of the Best Option for me, i worked years with and havent any issue, I made 5figure's, and all thru PayPal, Never got any problems, until 2008.
      After i close all my accounts with PayPal (personal,bussines)
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      • Profile picture of the author sam770
        so, what other company would u recommend instead of pp?

        Originally Posted by Union View Post

        I told you guys, PayPal was one of the Best Option for me, i worked years with and havent any issue, I made 5figure's, and all thru PayPal, Never got any problems, until 2008.
        After i close all my accounts with PayPal (personal,bussines)
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        • Profile picture of the author Union
          Originally Posted by sam770 View Post

          so, what other company would u recommend instead of pp?

          Im working with Bank of America and Wells Fargo, i have Google Checkout.
          for me its fine enough, i dont want to sign up for something else, i want to avoid PP experience.
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      • Profile picture of the author retirewithsandie
        Originally Posted by BXPS View Post

        Are there any other alternatives to paypal.
        As the OP stated Alert Pay is a good one. It's simple to be verified for a Personal Pro. Their Personal Starter it limits you to $400 a month or $2,000 lifetime. But the *good* part is they don't charge you for receiving money on that account. So if someone is just starting out they can do that until they start getting enough income to upgrade their account. With Personal Pro there's no limit to what you can receive. They also have a Business one that some may need but most folks should be fine with the Personal Pro.

        I know AP is accepted in a lot of countries where PP isn't so that can be another alternative for those who do want to still use PP & may deal internationally.

        And of course there's always the merchant account route as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author yeshuaisiam
    The problem is that many people trust paypal and it has grown too big for its breeches. Hopefully other companies can become as trusted and give them a run for the money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
    Will Alertpay work for Indian merchants?
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    • Profile picture of the author cantaxian
      Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

      Will Alertpay work for Indian merchants?
      Yes It works for Indian merchants. I am using Alertpay from past 2 years and haven't had any problems in receiving and sending money. You need to use a debit/credit card to withdraw money. There is no direct bank deposit like paypal for Some countries.

      I wish more people start using other payment processors making selling and purchasing more easier. Paypal Sucks seriously, they have limited my account, I cannot withdraw money unless I verify it with a credit card and I don't have it . Real morons. This Paypal virus pollutes the entire internet business. We cannot purchase domains, cannot provide services or cannot sell anything without Paypal Duh !. This needs to be changed, its high time now.
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  • Profile picture of the author princewally
    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post


    2. If you are in the high risk MMO niche, get two bank accounts. After you make a Paypal withdrawal and it hits your bank account, go take it out of that account and put it into the account that is not connected to Paypal. Simple. Then they cannot touch it.
    They can reverse the ACH and you'll lose the money plus an overdraft fee.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Suzanne,

    That's the smartest thing I've read today. It's a great lesson on being proactive and having a back up plan.

    Though 80% + of our sales go through our merchant account, roughly 10% come from Pay Pal, and the other 10% come from various sources (fax orders, mail orders, people phoning in their order, etc.). I still have a back up plan because you never know. Stuff happens.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author goldliger
    Good advice... Another route to consider is this... Contact aup@paypal.com (I think that's correct but you can check their terms), and request to have your product *approved* by a PayPal team member before marketing it. Once they send a reply with the approval, SAVE IT FOR DEAR LIFE!

    Then later on, if you have any problems, show them the approval/reply letter, letting them know THEY approved the product and you followed due diligence in getting it approved before you went live with it. This also gives you more solid legal recourse should anything happen (and they know it).

    -Bryan Winters
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    I have 2 membership sites that bring in 5 figures each month.

    Now these have taken a long time to set up and get traffic to.

    But I can say, there is no way I am going to just use paypal for these. Too many bad stories with paypal at the moment. Once I started making $3000 a month, it was time to put the backup plan in place.

    Always have a backup plan, especially if you do actually have a serious NON-Hobby membership sites, that are real businesses.
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  • Profile picture of the author BarryOnline
    This is a great post & a bit of an eye opener!

    The PayPal horror stories have got me VERY worried, I don’t personally have products or services taking payments with PayPal but I do use PayPal a few times a week to send payments which are vital to my online business.

    I use PayPal to send payments to several outsourcers I use, if PayPal were to close my account I’d be in big trouble. How could I possibly send payments to my outsourcers or buy products & services on the Warrior forum for example?

    The whole thing just really worries me.

    Check this site out for some truly shocking stores about PayPal - PayPal Complaints
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by BarryOnline View Post

      This is a great post & a bit of an eye opener!

      The PayPal horror stories have got me VERY worried, I don't personally have products or services taking payments with PayPal but I do use PayPal a few times a week to send payments which are vital to my online business.

      I use PayPal to send payments to several outsourcers I use, if PayPal were to close my account I'd be in big trouble. How could I possibly send payments to my outsourcers or buy products & services on the Warrior forum for example?

      The whole thing just really worries me.

      Check this site out for some truly shocking stores about PayPal - PayPal Complaints
      There's probably a lot less to worry about with just sending payments. In fact, Paypal calls me "Preferred" or something like that because I send out so many payments with it.

      The most worrying thing is my membership site where I sell websites to my members. Not very different from Rob's, who's entire business model was wiped out ... all his subscriptions gone and then money taken from his bank account that he had withdrawn from Paypal.

      Paypal can do a lot of damage if you get your income from membership fees. They can also do a lot of damage just by limiting your account when it has a lot of money in it, if you don't have a big bank account offline.

      Glad to see so many good stories about AlertPay. I will be using them equally with Paypal to start off with.
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      • Profile picture of the author retirewithsandie
        Originally Posted by cantaxian View Post

        I wish more people start using other payment processors making selling and purchasing more easier. Paypal Sucks seriously, they have limited my account, I cannot withdraw money unless I verify it with a credit card and I don't have it . Real morons. This Paypal virus pollutes the entire internet business. We cannot purchase domains, cannot provide services or cannot sell anything without Paypal Duh !. This needs to be changed, its high time now.
        That does suck
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  • Profile picture of the author Truxx
    Horror stories. Make sure to spread those eggs out to a bunch of baskets. Thanks for the wake up call!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
    I recommend Serve (free to send and receive money for US residents and it's also by AmEx) and an actual merchant account tied in with Freshbooks.
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  • Profile picture of the author omk
    Heh Heh, I love this
    Great job on this post!
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  • Profile picture of the author livingthelife
    Great post, Suzanne! It is important for people to be aware of the dangers of PayPal. They froze my account once with $15,000 in it for six months while they "evaluated" my account and eventually released my funds to my bank account.

    I have never had any problems with Alertpay.

    I also have used RevolutionMoneyExchange for some transactions with people that I know because it is free and it works great. It does not work with credit cards, but works by transferring to and from checking accounts to your RevolutionMoneyExchange.com account and then from one person's online account to another's. Not great for customers to pay you, but free to pay or receive payment to and from people that you frequently do business with.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Nice post, just bear in mind...

    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

    2. If you are in the high risk MMO niche, get two bank accounts. After you make a Paypal withdrawal and it hits your bank account, go take it out of that account and put it into the account that is not connected to Paypal. Simple. Then they cannot touch it.
    They are still able to pull money out of your linked bank account even if the balance is zero. It has happened to several people in this forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      Nice post, just bear in mind...

      They are still able to pull money out of your linked bank account even if the balance is zero. It has happened to several people in this forum.
      You're kidding. That's outrageous. How can a bank even let that happen, unless there were massive customer initiated chargebacks or refunds?
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      • Profile picture of the author imback
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        You're kidding. That's outrageous. How can a bank even let that happen, unless there were massive customer initiated chargebacks or refunds?


        Yes This can and WIll HAPPEN!!! It sucks, but happens all the time especially after they evaluate your case and decide against you.

        They want the money just as bad as you do.


        CHAD
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          While I agree with the OP 100% (Suzanne is one smart cookie) I will go one
          step further.

          If Paypal DOES shut you down, do NOT take it lying down.

          1. Get a lawyer
          2. Contact Paypal and try to straighten it out but if you can't...
          3. Report it to the attorney general
          4. Threaten to take it to the news media

          Make as much noise as you can. PayPal doesn't want all the bad press,
          especially when the whole world who is reading about the poor widow who
          was put out on the street because of big bad Paypal.

          Do NOT let them make you a victim.

          So while your business is back up and running with 2co or Alertpay or
          whoever, you'll also be making Paypal's life a holy hell provided it's worth
          it to you.

          If more people did this and actually made an issue out of it with the media
          and the people in Washington who matter, Paypal would either have to stop
          pulling this sh*t, get regulated or get put out of business.

          No company is beyond being done so much harm that they can't recover.

          Not even Paypal.
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          • Profile picture of the author Patrick Pretty
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


            So while your business is back up and running with 2co or Alertpay or
            whoever, you'll also be making Paypal's life a holy hell provided it's worth
            it to you.

            If more people did this and actually made an issue out of it with the media
            and the people in Washington who matter, Paypal would either have to stop
            pulling this sh*t, get regulated or get put out of business.

            No company is beyond being done so much harm that they can't recover.

            Not even Paypal.
            Steven,

            After Internet Marketers who do not get the PayPal result they want get finished filing their complaints with the attorney general and issuing threats to take their stories to the news media, should they bolster their strategy of making "Paypal's life a holy hell" by launching DDoS attacks in a bid to prove a point that "No company is beyond being done so much harm that they can't recover?"

            This is the language of thuggery, Steven -- even if it's true that PayPal is pulling the "sh*t" you suggest it is pulling.

            To do so much harm to a company that it cannot recover is to kill it, Steven. Are you really suggesting that PayPal deserves to die because it wants to restrict the type of businesses that use its services in an unprecedented era of white-collar crime?

            I'm sure you're aware that a hacker's group targeted PayPal in a DDoS attack and that hackers also say they will "kill" Facebook in November.

            It's my view that Internet Marketers generally would agree that the trade has a reputation problem. It's also my view that calls for Internet Marketers to let "holy hell" rain down on PayPal after they've safely transitioned to AlertPay only will add to that problem.

            Patrick

            P.S. If the IMers who transition to AlertPay encounter an account suspension, should they hire a lawyer in Canada to represent them in a beef against AlertPay? And if the lawyer can't straighten out the problem, should the IMer then report AlertPay to provincial authorities in Quebec and threaten to go to the "news media" as part of campaign to raise "holy hell" against AlertPay with an eye toward killing it?
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            • Profile picture of the author design2convert
              I will also suggest everyone to use moneybooker, if you have seen many main online site have already leave the paypal service, and the users were automatically moving to the moneybooker, this all due to their bad policies.
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              • Profile picture of the author Oggyoi
                Originally Posted by design2convert View Post

                I will also suggest everyone to use moneybooker, if you have seen many main online site have already leave the paypal service, and the users were automatically moving to the moneybooker, this all due to their bad policies.
                I use Moneybookers, but I have a VIP account there and get security tokens issued.
                They have had a few problems this year with hacking and security breaches. It's good to have options though.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Patrick Pretty View Post

              To do so much harm to a company that it cannot recover is to kill it, Steven. Are you really suggesting that PayPal deserves to die because it wants to restrict the type of businesses that use its services in an unprecedented era of white-collar crime?

              I'm sure you're aware that a hacker's group targeted PayPal in a DDoS attack and that hackers also say they will "kill" Facebook in November.

              It's my view that Internet Marketers generally would agree that the trade has a reputation problem. It's also my view that calls for Internet Marketers to let "holy hell" rain down on PayPal after they've safely transitioned to AlertPay only will add to that problem.

              Patrick
              Now we're getting somewhere. Even though Paypal has serviced hyips in the past in addition to crippling honest businesses with it's holds on their money without any explanation or recourse, this is the fault of Internet Marketers.

              They're the ones with a reputation problem. I see.

              To do so much harm to a company that it cannot recover is to kill it

              Very interesting, Patrick, when in fact Paypal is doing so much harm to companies that they cannot recover once all the money they've earned has been placed in limbo where Paypal can then benefit from it in interest payments.

              If indeed all of Paypal's customers are liars and crooks, what does that make Paypal? If indeed all of Paypal's customers are running fraudulent businesses, why did Paypal lose it's class action lawsuit ... or settle it? There are other more recent class action lawsuits against Paypal and we'll see who wins those as well.
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        • Profile picture of the author SteveRocks
          Aah thanks God you released my tention.......in fact no one out there was going to answer such a question......This discussion helped me out
          Thanks again
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        • Profile picture of the author Kashi456
          Thanks for this post. I'm with alert pay now.
          Just recently got banned from paypal..

          But the only thing is nagging me is that how do I receive my WSO commissions, pay for the warrior plus subscription and pay for safe swaps?

          They all accept paypal, not alert pay.

          Kashi
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          • Profile picture of the author MP80
            Originally Posted by Kashi456 View Post

            But the only thing is nagging me is that how do I receive my WSO commissions, pay for the warrior plus subscription and pay for safe swaps?
            Hi Suzanne,

            Thanks for the great thread, with heaps of excellent advice.. Just wondering if anyone has an answer for the question above - specifically: is it possible to promote WSO's without using PayPal?

            If not - does anyone have any best-practise/advice, or know of any problems re this?

            Many thanks,

            Max.
            Signature
            Before you do ANYTHING else in your day - do at least ONE thing that brings money into your business.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kashi456
              Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

              Hi Suzanne,

              Thanks for the great thread, with heaps of excellent advice.. Just wondering if anyone has an answer for the question above - specifically is it possible to promote WSO's without using PayPal?

              If not - does anyone have any best-practise/advice, or know of any problems re this?

              Many thanks,

              Max.

              Hi Max, I contacted warrior plus and they did say there are
              Working on a new payment processor in order to receive commissions. Not sure when it will become available.

              Some WSOs use clickbank as a gateway , I've been promoting them.

              Since I've ditched PayPal, I'm using 2checkout, and clickbank. Both work great.

              Thanks
              Bilaal
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              • Profile picture of the author MP80
                Originally Posted by Kashi456 View Post

                Hi Max, I contacted warrior plus and they did say there are
                Working on a new payment processor in order to receive commissions. Not sure when it will become available.

                Some WSOs use clickbank as a gateway , I've been promoting them.

                Since I've ditched PayPal, I'm using 2checkout, and clickbank. Both work great.

                Thanks
                Bilaal
                Wow, thanks for the quick reply!

                That's great news re 2checkout and clickbank, as I have been looking into both those options so I appreciate your feedback. You also mention Alertpay in your earlier post - how has that been going for you?

                Also wondering if anyone knows much about PowerPay, as I have heard a few promising reports about it?

                Thanks again Bilaal - much appreciated!

                Max.
                Signature
                Before you do ANYTHING else in your day - do at least ONE thing that brings money into your business.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kashi456
                  Np

                  I have not heard of power pay..

                  Regarding alertpay,
                  I did use them but found that they had issues, last time, I wired $5k and it never reached my account even after a week. Then I just requested a paper check.
                  That's the reason why I went for 2checkout.
                  It's very good.


                  Thanks
                  Bilaal
                  Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

                  Wow, thanks for the quick reply!

                  That's great news re 2checkout and clickbank, as I have been looking into both those options so I appreciate your feedback. You also mention Alertpay in your earlier post - how has that been going for you?

                  Also wondering if anyone knows much about PowerPay, as I have heard a few promising reports about it?

                  Thanks again Bilaal - much appreciated!

                  Max.
                  Signature

                  Please do not use affiliate/MLM links in signatures

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                  • Profile picture of the author MP80
                    Originally Posted by Kashi456 View Post

                    Np

                    I have not heard of power pay..

                    Regarding alertpay,
                    I did use them but found that they had issues, last time, I wired $5k and it never reached my account even after a week. Then I just requested a paper check.
                    That's the reason why I went for 2checkout.
                    It's very good.


                    Thanks
                    Bilaal
                    Really great to know this!

                    Cheers,

                    Max.
                    Signature
                    Before you do ANYTHING else in your day - do at least ONE thing that brings money into your business.
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    • Profile picture of the author aula
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      They are still able to pull money out of your linked bank account even if the balance is zero. It has happened to several people in this forum.
      read few other hundreds of thousands
      of Paypal true horror stories all over youtube, Paypal Problems, Information, Issues, Class Action Lawsuits - PayPal
      PayPal - Horror Stories, Lawsuits, PayPal Problems & Information - PayPal Account etc etc etc

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  • Profile picture of the author jackwebson
    Thanks for the useful tips suzanne. Actually most of my clients are using paypal and I haven't yet signed up for alert pay because of this. Wise internet marketers should really have a back up to alleviate risks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kezz
    Good advice all round for sure.

    Another tip I picked up from someone is to get yourself a security key card or key ring to go with your account. It looks like this:



    Every time you login you have to press a little button on your card or key ring and you get a security code generated you have to use as well as your password.

    What I was told is that accounts with this extra layer of security are less likely to be frozen due to the decreased likelihood of someone having hacked into your account.

    Of course I still take every other precaution I can and treat my account very gently, but it makes me feel better using anyhoo.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Miranda
      Originally Posted by Kezz View Post

      Good advice all round for sure.

      Another tip I picked up from someone is to get yourself a security key card or key ring to go with your account. It looks like this:



      Every time you login you have to press a little button on your card or key ring and you get a security code generated you have to use as well as your password.

      What I was told is that accounts with this extra layer of security are less likely to be frozen due to the decreased likelihood of someone having hacked into your account.

      Of course I still take every other precaution I can and treat my account very gently, but it makes me feel better using anyhoo.
      Did not know Paypal had this. This is similar to what corporations make their employees use to sign into VPN when remote. How do you get this setup with Paypal?
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Miranda
        Originally Posted by Steven Miranda View Post

        Did not know Paypal had this. This is similar to what corporations make their employees use to sign into VPN when remote. How do you get this setup with Paypal?
        Nevermind found info on it here.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Kezz View Post

      Good advice all round for sure.

      Another tip I picked up from someone is to get yourself a security key card or key ring to go with your account. It looks like this:



      Every time you login you have to press a little button on your card or key ring and you get a security code generated you have to use as well as your password.

      What I was told is that accounts with this extra layer of security are less likely to be frozen due to the decreased likelihood of someone having hacked into your account.

      Of course I still take every other precaution I can and treat my account very gently, but it makes me feel better using anyhoo.
      Originally Posted by Steven Miranda View Post

      Did not know Paypal had this. This is similar to what corporations make their employees use to sign into VPN when remote. How do you get this setup with Paypal?
      This is the first I've ever seen this. Will have to check it out.

      I have to say AlertPay was fast and easy setup. One day after opening the account, I have a Business Verified account. They sent the two micro deposits to my bank account yesterday after applying, they showed up on my statement today and everything is ready to go. I'm going to add links and give my customers the option of paying via AlertPay, as there are countries that PayPal will not serve that AlertPay does.
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  • Profile picture of the author Targeted Traffic
    Great post! and excellent choices for paypal alternatives btw...AlertPay has been around only since 2004, but it seems very promising.
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  • Profile picture of the author harrietfredge
    I'm sure that I'm not using paypal again. Well, thanks for the post, I will try that if I have the guts.
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    It's always a great idea to have a backup plan, unfortunately Paypal is so big no one knows that there are alternatives
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  • Profile picture of the author Geoff101
    Moneybookers is another very good alternative if you live in Europe and Asia.

    Unlike Paypal, they are regulated by government authority of UK.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick Pretty
    Things to think about:

    1.) AlertPay is the payment processor of choice for many fraud schemes promoted on HYIP/autosurf/money-cycler forums and has an e-Gold-like/E-Bullion-like reputation for turning a blind eye to money-laundering, thus harvesting profits from fraud schemes. When I think of AlertPay, I think of Alfred E. Neuman and the knowing, smarmy smile of plausible deniability.

    Plausible deniability, though, doesn't last long as a business model these days.

    2.) When an HYIP/autosurf/money-cycler starts showing signs that the "admin" isn't collecting enough cash to sustain the Ponzi or reports surface that the "admin" isn't responding to support requests and perhaps has run with the money, some of the forum hucksters/shills then put on the victims' hat and recommend that "customers" (read: the marks of the hucksters and shills) file disputes with AlertPay. Their hope is that AlertPay (and other Ponzi-friendly payment processors) will receive enough complaints to freeze the fraudster-in-chief's account, thus preventing the further dissipation of cash. (Read: fraud-scheme proceeds of the wink-nod variety.)

    One of many examples of this is occurring right now. It involves a "program" known as Club Asteria (CA). Claims about CA, a U.S.-based business that mysteriously appears to issue payments through a Hong Kong subsidiary, are under investigation by Italian regulators. CA trades on the name of the World Bank and, at least for a while, appears to have flown under PayPal's radar.

    CA began to slash members' weekly payouts in the spring. (Some promoters claimed CA paid 10 percent a week through a "passive" program that, incongruously, was described as a "program" that was not an "investment" despite the widely advertised "returns." ) The company then claimed its PayPal account had been frozen. After that, it dialed up its efforts to encourage members to use AlertPay and other offshore processors. The long-and-short of it is that CA then announced a cash crisis and the total suspension of payouts. The wink-nod forum shills/hucksters then encouraged their marks to file mass disputes with AlertPay, a clear bid to trap the remaining money.

    These worlds are about as seedy and disingenuous as it gets, and AlertPay is immersed in them. After professional shills and hucksters collect vast sums of money in the form of electronic affiliate payments from "programs" such as CA, they then default to a strategy of advising the marks to file disputes or chargeback equivalents with processors such as AlertPay when the "programs" begin to show signs of stress.

    Among the common advice given to the marks, who really are the late-entry victims of a Ponzi scheme or pyramid scheme or people who did not retrieve their "earnings" fast enough because they bought into the notion of "compounding," is to tell the processors that the "program" did not come as advertised. In general, this doesn't occur until AFTER the shills and hucksters and insiders have mined the "programs" for every dollar they are worth. Very little money may remain for the victims if the secondary scam of forcing account freezes at the processor level "works."

    And if the secondary scam does "work," it may put the remaining money outside the reach of U.S. law enforcement and the courts, while at once putting AlertPay and other processors in the position of acting as a de facto court -- i.e., the processors, as opposed to the real courts, then have to come up with a pro rata refund scheme.

    This creates a condition under which some "program" members receive severe haircuts from the processors while others -- the early entrants and profiteers -- receive no haircuts at all.

    The U.S. government generally does not announce that a specific program is under investigation until all of its investigative ducks are in a row. If a Ponzi/pyramid/fraud probe and prosecution later emerges -- and if the willfully blind offshore processors happy to harvest fees from scammers already have implemented their own pro rata refund programs -- fewer assets are available to compensate the later entrants because the money doesn't make its way into a common pool formed by the government for victims. This creates a condition under which hucksters and shills can profit handsomely from crime.

    SolidTrustPay, a Canadian company like AlertPay, created a deplorable condition during the AdSurfDaily autosurf Ponzi probe in 2008. The U.S. Feds had seized about $80 million of ASD cash in U.S. banks, but at least several million dollars remained in offshore payment processors. As U.S. prosecutors were fashioning a restitution program that would be fair to thousands and thousands of victims -- i.e., the victims all would receive the same haircut -- SolidTrustPay fashioned its own "remedy" with no judicial oversight. This means that the ASD refund pool as constructed by the Feds was smaller and virtually guaranteed that victims would get greater haircuts because SolidTrustPay privately "refunded" some ASD members through a process SolidTrustPay implemented behind closed doors instead of sending the cash to the Feds.

    Lots of IMers complain in kneejerk fashion about the evil "regulators" and PayPal. Some of them are less interested in performing an honest analysis of the situation, which is a response to the serious threat posed by money-launderers, viral criminality and EVERYTHING such criminality entails, including the threats of terrorism and organized crime. I have seen cases in which a single crime syndicate formed DOZENS of shell companies and LLCs to keep a criminal enterprise intact -- and there is NO DOUBT that narcotics traffickers are piggybacking off Internet-based fraud schemes to disguise proceeds that flow from the illegal sale of drugs.

    IMHO, IMers who are doing business with (or becoming dependent on) lightly regulated Canadian processors or processors based in Central America are putting their own enterprises and reputations at risk. The acceptance of wink-nod business by payment processors followed by disingenuous explanations (read: hoped-for plausible deniability) after the fact are reckless business strategies, especially in the wired world. The security implications are enormous, and no great sovereign nation is going to sit on its hands while its citizens pockets are picked by a confederation of criminals and their wink-nod, flag-waving apologists. Some of the free-market "defenses" for the schemes are tortured beyond all rationality, up to and including arguments that all commerce is lawful if consenting adults enter a contract, an argument that actually brings the slave trade and human bondage back into play if followed to it logical conclusion.

    Like eGold (and e-Bullion) before it, wink-nod and willfully blind payment processors are the processors of choice for money-launderers, serial scammers and criminals -- and it's this way at least in part because PayPal has taken a proactive stance against crime and wants no part of a wink-nod commerce stream. Other processors were more than happy to rush in to fill the void, AlertPay among them.

    It's worth noting here that James Fayed, E-Bullion's operator, was convicted in May of ordering the contract murder of his wife, a potential witness against him in various fraud cases. Pamela Fayed was found savagely slashed to death in a California parking garage on July 28, 2008. Her husband now faces the death penalty.

    E-Bullion, a wink-nod business if ever there was one, has been linked to multiple online Ponzi schemes. Much of its business gravitated to offshore payment processors.

    Any person who looks closely at the AdSurfDaily Ponzi case will see references to E-Gold, E-Bullion, SoldTrustPay, AlertPay and CEP Trust, the in-house processor for the CEP Ponzi scheme. They'll also see references to 12DailyPro and PhoenixSurf, two Inertnet-based Ponzi schemes smashed by the U.S. government. (In the cases of CEP, 12DailyPro and PhoenixSurf, the SEC did the smashing. The U.S. Secret Service got the honor of policing up the ASD cash -- and it's worth noting that a self-styled professional "Internet Marketer" and purported expert once had the brainiac notion that one of the best ways AdSurfDaily could expand "sales" was to start using the name of the President of the United States in promos. The Secret Service, doing what it does, effectively set up shop inside ASD and observed and observed and observed. When it was done observing, it went to a federal judge and obtained 15 seizure warrants for bank accounts, including two PERSONAL accounts in the name of ASD President Andy Bowdoin that contained more than $53 million. Bowdoin's 10 personal accounts -- all of which were seized -- contained more than $65.8 million in the aggregate. Just prior to the seizure, Bowdoin allegedly moved "several million" dollars into SolidTrustPay in Canada, and he also allegedly had about $1 million on the island nation of Antigua in an account under a different name. The Allen Stanford Ponzi case involving CDs and Antigua banking emerged a few months after the ASD-related seizures, and autosurf schemes in Central and South America that used Canadian and other offshore processors immediately started to show signs of stress, with some collapsing or announcing payout suspensions/restrictions.)

    For all its warts, PayPal wants to be viable for the long term; it wants and needs its brand to mean something -- and meaning something in an age that money moves at the speed of an electronic impulse necessarily means that a company has to take a public stand against money laundering, organized crime and other nefarious pursuits instead of just paying lip service to these very real and very dangerous problems.

    It's easy to see the potential consequence to "Internet Marketers" when one reflects on the fact that an "Internet Marketer" once had the brainiac notion that one of the best ways for ASD to attract funds and disarm skeptics was to start trading on the name of the President of the United States.

    And, finally, it's worth noting that another brainiac "Internet Marketing" notion that surfaced in the ASD case was that fellow ASD members should click on Google AdSense ads that had been set up in an account that purportedly would benefit ASD -- i.e., proceeds from a click-fraud scheme aimed at Google could result in a new income stream for ASD and/or its participants.

    There is precious little doubt that honest IMers are going to become the casualties of professional money-launderers and serial criminals who work as affiliate marketers. The pushing already has begun, as PayPal and banks assess risk and respond to it with a wide brush.

    AlertPay needs to tighten its money-laundering controls and stop accepting business from HYIPs/autosurfs/money-cyclers if it wants to emerge as a reputable PayPal alternative, IMHO. Absent that, it is an E-Gold or E-Bullion in waiting, and no great sovereign nation is going to sit idly by while the resources of its citizens disappear down ratholes in the murkiest corners of the Internet.

    Patrick
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  • Profile picture of the author Warrior X
    You can actually get the $49 application fee for 2CheckOut waived using a discount code: http://www.retailmenot.com/view/2checkout.com

    I signed up myself on Monday and am still waiting for approval. I don't know if they tend to take longer on free applications or not. Their site claimed many get approved the same day. Still, probably worth it to save the 50 bucks!

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    • Profile picture of the author Alminc
      DLGuard will have even recurring payments option through AlertPay
      in coming update.
      Signature
      No links :)
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan Dodson
    A friend of mine reads your post and says, "No thanks, I'm gonna ride this Paypal train till the wheels fall off!".

    Loyalty or laziness? :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

      DLGuard will have even recurring payments option through AlertPay
      in coming update.
      Now that's exciting. I love DLGuard and use it all the time.

      Originally Posted by Ryan Dodson View Post

      A friend of mine reads your post and say, "No thanks, I'm gonna ride this Paypal train till the wheels fall off".

      Loyalty or laziness? :rolleyes:
      Well, if that's a risk they're willing to take, more power to them. Not me. There's just too many Paypal stories to discount them all as being the fault of the seller and certainly some Paypal practices that give me pause.

      If you don't have all your eggs in one basket, don't won't lose all your eggs when the worst happens.
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      • Profile picture of the author Patricia Sphar
        I expect to see a post from AlertPay pronto in response to Patrick Pretty's post regarding AlertPay's shady past with Ponzi schemes! AlertPay has done other posts on this thread, so what's your answer to turning a blind eye to Poniz schemes? Is Patrick's post accurate or not?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Jordan
    Thanks for posting, Suzanne. I never had major problems with paypal but it's good to have a backup.
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  • Profile picture of the author rodney2420
    i do a gree, the only problem is that most of people use paypal as their payment processor, but as you state on your post, is not reliable to put all your eggs in one basket, thats why ts better use diffrent ones
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    Great post Suzanne. It is obviously helping people.

    Jeffery 100% :-)
    Signature
    WarriorHelp.com
    Webmaster to the Stars
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    • Profile picture of the author davidjames42973
      Great post! I was talking to somebody at Practical Profits that had about $50,000 in Paypal monthly memberships that was completely cut off.

      There are other alternatives. Fight the power!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick Pretty
    A few random examples (current as of today). Please note that the "sales pitch" provided below includes only one element of the pitch. "Programs" often advertise multiple earnings "plans."

    Name of "opportunity": Metalito
    Sales pitch: 190 percent after 45 days. Max. investment $70,000.
    Advertised Processors: *LibertyReserve, AlertPay, *PerfectMoney
    Sales venue: Known Ponzi forums listed in federal court documents as such.

    NOTES: An autosurf known as "MegaLido" -- as opposed to the HYIP "Metalito" -- tanked in the aftermath of the AdSurfDaily seizure. The collapse occurred after MegaLido was positioned as a safe, "offshore" alternative to ASD. MegaLido's estimated membership was 27,000. MegaLido also was popular with members of the Noobing autosurf, which targeted deaf people. Noobing operated under the umbrella of a company later sued by the FTC in a government-grants scam. With respect to "MegaLido" and "Metalito," it is common for later scams to mimic the names of earlier scams. It also is common for the schemes to use the name of a metal or precious gem.

    Name of "opportunity": CenturionWealthCircle
    Sales pitch: 200% return from each $15 investment.
    Advertised Processors: AlertPay
    Sales venue: Known Ponzi forums listed in federal court documents as such.

    NOTES: The website of CenturionWealthCircle, a money-cycler, mysteriously disappeared on or about July 28. The DNS suggested that the domain had been suspended for spam and abuse. The site returned, apparently after arranging new hosting. Members were complaining about low or absent payouts even before the site disappeared. CenturionWealthCircle now claims it is introducing a "feeder" program. If true, it means a Ponzi will be feeding a Ponzi. The "experts" are telling the marks to make sure they jump on board the feeder to give CenturionWealthCicle a chance to resurrect itself.

    Name of "opportunity": PremiumFinancials
    Sales pitch: Pay $1,500. Earn 4,320 percent interest in 120 days.
    Advertised Processors: LibertyReserve , Perfect Money, AlertPay, SoldTrustPay (pending).
    Sales venue: Known Ponzi forums listed in federal court documents as such.

    NOTES: Says it experienced recent DDoS attack.

    Name of "opportunity": HourlyEarn
    Sales pitch: 17 percent hourly for seven hours.
    Advertised Processors: LibertyReserve , Perfect Money, AlertPay,
    Sales venue: Known Ponzi forums listed in federal court documents as such.

    NOTES: "Programs" that purport to pay interest hourly are becoming increasingly common.

    * Some Warriors may be interested to know that LibertyReserve (Costa Rica) and PerfectMoney (Panama) are identified in federal court filings as the payment processors for the Imperia Invest IBC fraud scheme, which, like the Noobing autosurf, targeted deaf investors. The money appears to have been whisked quickly to Cyprus and New Zealand.

    Patrick
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Patrick Pretty View Post

      Patrick
      Look Patrick. You've written around 3,000 words about crime, fraud, hyips, ponzis ... you name it.

      This was meant to be a proactive thread about alternatives and getting off your butt and getting a backup plan before it's too late.

      I read everything you wrote and did my own research and I found numerous posts in serps about AlertPay suspending hyips, and about their strict money laundering and terrorist funding/anti-fraud measures. Paypal is no stranger to hyips and autosurfs. There are threads about which ones accept Paypal in 2006. Looks like they suspended hyips and autosurfs at some point, but they did cash in on processing payments for them.

      http://www.talkgold DOT com/forum/r66804-.html
      http://hywd DOT info/node/498

      Equally, I don't like Paypal pretending that they're shutting honest marketers down with the pretense of risk prevention .... wiping out an entire business in a single moment right after a big launch when they particularly have more to gain, refunding customers who did not request a refund, canceling subscriptions that did not request canceling, reaching into people's bank accounts and robbing them of money they earned ... and on and on.

      If you really want to imply how evil AlertPay is, why don't you start your own thread and see where it goes. I encourage everyone when trying out a new payment processor to start slow and test it. Get some payments and make some withdrawals and see how it goes.
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      • Profile picture of the author Patrick Pretty
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Look Patrick. You've written around 3,000 words about crime, fraud, hyips, ponzis ... you name it.

        This was meant to be a proactive thread about alternatives and getting off your butt and getting a backup plan before it's too late.
        Suzanne,

        The title of this thread is "Are You Afraid of Paypal? Here's What You Do."

        You observe that the PayPal stories on the WF "are pretty scary," and you explain that you've opened a business account at AlertPay and signed up for 2CO. You suggest that people who "just sit around" and do not do as you do may find themselves up "sh*t creek" if and when they encounter problems with PayPal.

        Apparently you now feel rebuffed because I pointed out that AlertPay is the payment processor of choice for many online fraud schemes, particularly HYIP/autosurf and cycler schemes that are promoted on known Ponzi scheme forums that are referenced in federal court filings as the places from which crime is peddled.

        Even as you're apparently taking offense at my posts that convey serious concerns about AlertPay by addressing me with a "Look Patrick" and an assertion that I "don't like some of the people they do business with," you accuse PayPal of "pretending" and using the "pretense" of risk prevention to hamstring marketers before finally "robbing" them.

        You now challenge me to open my own thread if I "really want to imply how evil AlertPay is."

        I decline your challenge, Suzanne.

        My point of posting in this thread is that Warriors who use AlertPay should do so with open eyes. They need to know that scammers on the Ponzi boards routinely post "I got paid" posts along with screen shots of affiliate payments from scammers who use AlertPay. The screen shots, of course, are used to sanitize fraud schemes and serve as "social proof" that legitimate commerce is occurring.

        In an earlier post I mentioned Club Asteria, which publicly announced its PayPal account had been frozen and encouraged members to keep sending money to Club Asteria through AlertPay and others.

        What I did not mention was that one of the Club Asteria PRINCIPALS also promoted AdSurfDaily, leading an unknown number of lambs to the slaughter. And I also did not mention that another Club Asteria promoter with a big list also is promoting CenturionWealthCircle, which was enabled by AlertPay and now wants to open a feeder Ponzi to resurrect its already-collapsed Ponzi.

        The Club Asteria principal whose firm had its PayPal account frozen registered the domain for Club Asteria on June 25, 2009. On the very same day, the AdViewGlobal autosurf -- which the Club Asteria principal also was promoting -- announced it was suspending cashouts. It also announced that it would sue journalists who wrote about the cashout suspension and arrange to have ISPs cut the Internet connections of members who complained about the company on forums.

        AdViewGlobal was an AdSurfDaily spinoff that launched in the aftermath of the seizure of $80 million from ASD and the filing of a RICO lawsuit against ASD's Andy Bowdoin. In short, AdViewGlobal threatened both journalists and its own members AFTER Bowdoin was sued for racketeering.

        Oh, one more thing: Club Asteria targeted its offer to the poorest people on earth. It appears to have been hugely effective in relieving residents of India of their money, and also had significant penetration in Africa and Asia. Promoters made prospects believe that a monthly payment of $19.95 would turn into a "passive" income of $1,600 a month.

        One of Club Asteria's "defenders" came to my Blog and created multiple user identities from an IP in the Philippines. He immediately defaulted to the ad hominem attack. After he got his fill of that, Club Asteria's financial picture worsened -- and he peeled off to promote another scam on the Ponzi forums.

        Warriors and IMers in general need to know that they're paying a price for the wretched excesses of the serial scammers and criminals. Even so, I agree with your notion that marketers should have a backup plan, Suzanne.

        But if their backup plan includes AlertPay, they need to know that some fraud schemes are now counting victims in numbers that would fill the largest sports stadiums in the United States -- and that AlertPay is a darling of the Ponzi boards.


        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        I read everything you wrote and did my own research and I found numerous posts in serps about AlertPay suspending hyips, and about their strict money laundering and terrorist funding/anti-fraud measures.
        How "strict" could AlertPay be when a Club Asteria principal and ASD/AVG promoter whose enterprise trades on the name of the World Bank and targets its offer to the world's poor uses AlertPay to collect funds?

        And how "strict" could it be when another Club Asteria promoter with a big list ropes people into CenturionWealthCircle, which also uses AlertPay?

        It was known in June that PayPal froze ClubAsteria's account. During the same month, the big-list ClubAsteria promoter who went on to promote CenturionWealthCircle -- a now-collapsed Ponzi that is trying to open a second Ponzi -- posted AlertPay affiliate payments for Club Asteria totaling $2,032. These were for the month of June alone. CONSOB, the Italian regulator, opened its Club Asteria probe in May, the same month the PayPal suspension occurred. And yet various claims of Club Asteria affiliate earnings paid through AlertPay appeared on the Ponzi forums for weeks after the PayPal freeze and the opening of the investigation in Italy.

        Patrick
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Patrick Pretty View Post

          It was known in June that PayPal froze ClubAsteria's account.

          Patrick
          So, Paypal also enabled and processed this criminal operation.
          Pot > Kettle

          In addition, Paypal does all the previously mentioned stuff to honest Internet Marketers, who do not happen to have ever been involved in criminal operations, money laundering, autosurfs, hyips, funding terrorists ... etc.
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          • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
            Banned
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            So, Paypal also enabled and processed this criminal operation.
            Pot > Kettle

            In addition, Paypal does all the previously mentioned stuff to honest Internet Marketers, who do not happen to have ever been involved in criminal operations, money laundering, autosurfs, hyips, funding terrorists ... etc.
            How do you know they are honest marketers who are breaking no rules? Because they told you they were, lol?

            Unlike Paypal, they are regulated by government authority of UK.
            Awww, that's cute. You're one of those folks who believes Paypal isn't regulated. Paypal is regulated by the government authority of the U.S., and any other country they operate in. Anyone who doesn't believe that, I challenge you to start your own version of Paypal and see how far you get without complying with various regulations. What they aren't regulated as is a bank. Why? For the same reason Apple isn't regulated as a bank....because they aren't banks.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

              How do you know they are honest marketers who are breaking no rules? Because they told you they were, lol?
              And you're saying every case of Paypal holding other people's money are cases of dishonest marketers. lol back.

              Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

              What they aren't regulated as is a bank. Why? For the same reason Apple isn't regulated as a bank....because they aren't banks.
              Peter Thiel, the founder of PayPal, has stated that PayPal is not a bank because it does not engage in fractional-reserve banking. Rather, PayPal's funds that have not been disbursed are kept in commercial interest-bearing checking accounts.

              How convenient to hold large sums of money indefinitely when it is placed in an interest-bearing checking account.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                And you're saying every case of Paypal holding other people's money are cases of dishonest marketers. lol back.



                Peter Thiel, the founder of PayPal, has stated that PayPal is not a bank because it does not engage in fractional-reserve banking. Rather, PayPal's funds that have not been disbursed are kept in commercial interest-bearing checking accounts.

                How convenient to hold large sums of money indefinitely when it is placed in an interest-bearing checking account.
                Correct.

                Those that have funds frozen or taken are also not eligible to gain interest on said funds.

                That's one of the big things in the class action lawsuit against PP.
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                • Profile picture of the author professorrosado
                  Originally Posted by Mike Grant View Post

                  Correct.

                  Those that have funds frozen or taken are also not eligible to gain interest on said funds.

                  That's one of the big things in the class action lawsuit against PP.
                  And that's a biggie. If they are shown to intentionally close down accounts and unscrupulously profit from it in anyway, this could spell a major infraction of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act amongst others.

                  Although I recall them sending my money to me when they closed one of my accounts after adding or changing some requirement that was not in effect when I created the account.

                  Kudos OP for a pivotal thread! Thanks!
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          • Profile picture of the author Patrick Pretty
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            So, Paypal also enabled and processed this criminal operation.
            Pot > Kettle
            Yes. And when PayPal recognized the problem, it did what AlertPay was unwilling to do: Immediately divorce an HYIP, which had disguised itself as a benevolent organization, from a key access point to the banking system.

            This is hardly a case of "Pot > Kettle," Suzanne. Not all threats are instantly recognizable. When a threat finally is recognized and addressed, it may evolve to become unrecognizable again. That's the core danger of the wired world, and it affects the payment processors -- and banks at the LOCAL level regionally, nationally and internationally.

            No screening system can be made perfectly safe, and online fraudsters can be exceptionally devious and cunning. Regardless, my confidence in PayPal as a responsible commercial institution concerned about the integrity of the financial infrastructure and international security is much greater than my confidence in AlertPay.

            Given what I have learned about AlertPay in the past few years, it sickens me that Warriors are considering it as an option. Some of the most well-known Warriors of them all spoke out forcefully against autosurfs and HYIP schemes in July 2008, prior to the ASD seizure. Newer Warriors from all over the world may not be aware that senior members of this very forum did not back down when challenged by ASD shills and apologists more than three years ago.

            The Warrior Forum - Is ASD the new 12 daily pro?

            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            In addition, Paypal does all the previously mentioned stuff to honest Internet Marketers, who do not happen to have ever been involved in criminal operations, money laundering, autosurfs, hyips, funding terrorists ... etc.
            What you're observing -- the account closures experienced by presumptively honest marketers -- is the collateral damage of a war. Financial fraud is a rapidly evolving threat. It is form-shifting by its very nature. The worst of the worst -- the most dangerous of the dangerous -- continually evolve in new and destructive ways.

            __________________________________________________ _________________

            “In recent years, we’ve seen clear, and alarming, advances in the sophistication and commercialization of crimes involving electronic networks. And the staggering volume of money being stolen online today has the potential to threaten not only the security of our nation — but the integrity of our government, the stability of our economy, and the safety of our people.” — U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, June 9, 2011

            __________________________________________________ _________________

            “Money laundering allows criminals to infuse illegal money into the stream of commerce, thus manipulating financial institutions to facilitate the concealing of criminal proceeds; this provides the criminals with unwarranted economic power.

            “The FBI investigates money laundering cases by identifying the process by which criminals conceal or disguise the proceeds of their crimes or convert those proceeds into goods and services. The major threats in this area stem from emerging technologies, such as stored value devices, as well as from shell corporations, which are used to conceal the ownership of funds being moved through financial institutions and international commerce." — FBI Director Robert Mueller, March 17, 2010**

            ** Though not included in the quoted material above, Mueller also warned about the emergence of a "shadow" banking system.
            __________________________________________________ _________________

            NOTE: About nine months after Mueller commented on the increasing reliance on shell companies by criminals, the FTC issued this statement:

            "The FTC’s complaint alleges that [the Jeremy Johnson/I Works Internet fraud] scheme has caused hundreds of thousands of consumers to seek chargebacks — reversals of charges to their credit cards or debits to their banks accounts . The high number of chargebacks has landed the defendants in VISA’s and MasterCard’s chargeback monitoring programs, resulted in millions of dollars in fines for excessive chargebacks, and prevented the defendants from getting access to the credit card and debit card billing systems using their own names. To keep the scam going, the defendants tricked banks into giving them continued access to these billing systems by creating 51 shell companies with figurehead officers, and by providing the banks with phony “clean” versions of their websites. — Federal Trade Commission, Dec. 22, 2010

            __________________________________________________ _________________

            "Defendants have employed a variety of stratagems to continue and expand their scam, thereby causing unreimbursed consumer injury to mount to more than $275 million since 2006. — From the unredacted FTC complaint in the Johnson/I Works case, Jan. 12, 2011

            __________________________________________________ _________________

            "There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of victims involved in this scheme [in the western United States]. Many have lost their homes and lives the way they knew it . . . We have lost everything." — Email received by the PP Blog from a Ponzi scheme victim, Aug. 8, 2011

            "He took our money with no intention of investing it, and with no intention of us ever seeing it again. We have lost our family home, our way of life, and we now owe thousands in taxes on money that we have never even seen." — Outtake from the same Aug. 8 email referenced directly above.
            __________________________________________________ _________________

            "The defendants [in a Ponzi case in the U.S. Upper Midwest], like trained parrots, claim they knew nothing, but even their own communication records, court testimony and written filings demonstrate otherwise." — Email received by the PP Blog from a Ponzi and affinity-fraud victim, Aug. 8, 2011 (Not the same case cited in the block immediately above.)

            __________________________________________________ _________________

            "Do you think any of the people who lost money will retrieve any of their losses?" — Email received by the PP Blog from a victim of a fraud scheme pulled off by a convicted attorney in the U.S. South, Aug. 3, 2011
            __________________________________________________ _________________


            "Many of us have lost thousands of dollars. Any information you could lead us to would be appreciated very much." — Email received by the PP Blog from a Ponzi victim in the western United States, Aug. 2, 2011 (Not the same western U.S. scheme cited in the first Aug. 8 email above.

            __________________________________________________ _________________

            "It appears this man has been stealing what ever he could get from my mother. Money i'm sure was his main objective. But what he has done to her and many others is unforgivable. These people should be put away for life." — Email to the PP Blog from a son whose mother was the victim of an alleged fraud scheme run by an attorney, July 15, 2011

            __________________________________________________ _________________


            Originally Posted by Patricia Sphar View Post

            I expect to see a post from AlertPay pronto in response to Patrick Pretty's post regarding AlertPay's shady past with Ponzi schemes! AlertPay has done other posts on this thread, so what's your answer to turning a blind eye to Poniz schemes? Is Patrick's post accurate or not?
            No Warrior and no one from AlertPay has disputed the accuracy yet, Patricia.

            Patrick
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Patrick Pretty View Post

              Given what I have learned about AlertPay in the past few years, it sickens me that Warriors are considering it as an option.
              Patrick
              I might be impressed if you were equally appalled at Paypal's operating methods, but your focus is on hyips and my focus is on not getting robbed and my business seriously harmed by a payment processor.
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              • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
                Here is a blog post I did earlier this year comparing payment processors:

                http://internetprofituniversity.com/...-payout-dates/

                I believe they all accept PayPal (without you needing a PayPal account), except where noted.

                .
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              • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
                Originally Posted by Patrick Pretty View Post

                Given what I have learned about AlertPay in the past few years, it sickens me that Warriors are considering it as an option.

                [...]

                What you're observing -- the account closures experienced by presumptively honest marketers -- is the collateral damage of a war.
                Tell THAT to the families of the marketers when it comes time for dinner. "Sorry kids, we can't eat tonight because PayPal shut off my account, and I don't have any other way of taking payments."

                "Why? Well, I guess it's because to them I looked like a scammer."

                "Did I scam or cheat anyone? No. No, they didn't have anybody ask any questions about my business to see what I do. One of my products sold beyond my wildest expectations and a lot of money came in quickly. I guess that's what did it. I don't know for sure, they won't tell me what I did wrong."

                "Why won't they tell? Because they don't want the scammers to know what they're looking for."

                "Good question, son. I don't know what to change if they won't tell me what I did wrong. Doesn't matter anyway, they said my account is closed and that it's final, and they took all of the money and gave it back to people who bought my product, and they're keeping the rest for 6 months. So no, I can't pay for glasses for you. And your sister's braces will have to wait, too."

                "But it's ok, kids. We're just collateral damage in a war. Pass the beans, please. Would you mind lighting another candle? It's dark in here since the electric got shut off."

                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                I might be impressed if you were equally appalled at Paypal's operating methods, but your focus is on hyips and my focus is on not getting robbed and my business seriously harmed by a payment processor.
                Bravo
                Signature

                The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

                Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

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                • Profile picture of the author Patrick Pretty
                  Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

                  Tell THAT to the families of the marketers when it comes time for dinner. "Sorry kids, we can't eat tonight because PayPal shut off my account, and I don't have any other way of taking payments."

                  "Why? Well, I guess it's because to them I looked like a scammer."

                  "Did I scam or cheat anyone? No. No, they didn't have anybody ask any questions about my business to see what I do. One of my products sold beyond my wildest expectations and a lot of money came in quickly. I guess that's what did it. I don't know for sure, they won't tell me what I did wrong."

                  "Why won't they tell? Because they don't want the scammers to know what they're looking for."

                  "Good question, son. I don't know what to change if they won't tell me what I did wrong. Doesn't matter anyway, they said my account is closed and that it's final, and they took all of the money and gave it back to people who bought my product, and they're keeping the rest for 6 months. So no, I can't pay for glasses for you. And your sister's braces will have to wait, too."

                  "But it's ok, kids. We're just collateral damage in a war. Pass the beans, please. Would you mind lighting another candle? It's dark in here since the electric got shut off."
                  Steve,

                  You would be wrong to assume that I do not understand, sympathize or empathize with legitimate IMers whose lives have been altered because of developments at PayPal.

                  For the sake of discussion, let's say PayPal is reading this thread (and similar ones) and ask what it sees.

                  Well, it sees anger directed at PayPal. And it sees that real, breathing human beings who once helped PayPal make money now are in pain because they cannot access their money -- and that the pain extends to their families and employees. The views about PayPal on the WF lately are far from warm and fuzzy, so PayPal isn't scoring any PR points over here.

                  But surely PayPal also sees IMers who can't possibly know all of the facts about an individual circumstance making sweeping assertions, up to and including claims of "robbery."

                  And it sees a well-known IMer who has used PayPal for years talking about making "holy hell" rain down on PayPal.

                  How rational is that, Steve?

                  It is true that I used the phrase "collateral damage." It is equally true that you seized on it to plant the seed that my view is a cold-hearted one or that I lack empathy.

                  Steve, it likely is true that I get more letters from crime victims than many Bloggers. I get them from people of faith, from senior citizens, from widows, from young families. Many of them have told their stories on my Blog or through private emails, and almost all of them have been involved in online commerce in one form or another.

                  Many of the victims have very little confidence in IM these days -- for good reason: They've had their clocks cleaned by online fraudsters.

                  But getting back to what else PayPal sees . . .

                  Well, it sees that IMers who appear to have done little or no study about AlertPay are going to set up shop over there. And it sees that some IMers apparently don't care that AlertPay has not divorced itself from the worlds of HYIPs, autosurfs and cyclers and actually facilitates them.

                  There are nearly 11,000 comments on my Blog. If I were asked to distill them to their essence, I'd say "Ponzi equals pain." Because I examine a lot of court records, I know that Ponzi often also equals "foreclosure." Sometimes it even means "death" -- in the form of suicide or murder.

                  That's a problem whether IMers want to acknowledge it or not because the fraud often occurs online and is driven by "Internet Marketers."

                  The public can paint with a very wide brush. IM already has a reputation problem, and honest marketers can pay a terrible price because of the dishonest ones.

                  It very often proves to be the case that the IMers who spread the fraud did so deliberately. Even if the fraud was spread by innocent parties, it often is the case it was pushed along because of a complete lack of due diligence on the part of affiliate marketers. The starry-eyed herd often gets it wrong. When it does, it sets the stage for fraud schemes to spread globally.

                  If you look at the first post in this thread, you will see that Suzanne was thanked 47 times for sharing her AlertPay plan. There was virtually no critical commentary until Post 60, well down the second page of the thread.

                  That's exactly what AlertPay wants, of course. More Warriors means more money for AlertPay.

                  But AlertPay still hasn't answered the question from Patricia -- not in a day and a half.

                  Meanwhile, AlertPay-enabled Centurion Wealth Circle is gearing up to launch a feeder Ponzi to resuscitate its earlier Ponzi that collapsed in only a few weeks, and Club Asteria still is not paying its members in India and other nations.

                  I don't want to see ANY legitimate IMer hurt by ANY payment processor, Steve. I can detest the situation without detesting PayPal because I know that Internet-based fraud schemes have consumed billions of dollars in recent times. It is a sad reality that legitimate IMers are hurting because the criminals have learned to steal by the tens of millions of dollars at a time.

                  Patrick
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                  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
                    Originally Posted by Patrick Pretty View Post

                    Steve,

                    You would be wrong to assume that I do not understand, sympathize or empathize with legitimate IMers whose lives have been altered because of developments at PayPal.

                    For the sake of discussion, let's say PayPal is reading this thread (and similar ones) and ask what it sees.

                    Well, it sees anger directed at PayPal. And it sees that real, breathing human beings who once helped PayPal make money now are in pain because they cannot access their money -- and that the pain extends to their families and employees. The views about PayPal on the WF lately are far from warm and fuzzy, so PayPal isn't scoring any PR points over here.

                    But surely PayPal also sees IMers who can't possibly know all of the facts about an individual circumstance making sweeping assertions, up to and including claims of "robbery."
                    PayPal would see anger because honest IMers as a group are concerned, even scared. We are at risk of having our livelihood disrupted or even destroyed because we've stepped outside of a vague - even invisible - boundary. The vast majority of us would follow the rules, color within the lines - if we knew what the rules are and where the lines are.

                    But we can't know those rules, they can't be public knowledge because then the scammers would know how to get around them.

                    And that leaves us constantly looking over our shoulders, watching for the PayPal bus, knowing that if it decides to run over us, we're toast.

                    And it sees a well-known IMer who has used PayPal for years talking about making "holy hell" rain down on PayPal.

                    How rational is that, Steve?
                    Not rational - but I think we all recognize it as the statement of a frustrated person whose income has suddenly disappeared.

                    Well, it sees that IMers who appear to have done little or no study about AlertPay are going to set up shop over there. And it sees that some IMers apparently don't care that AlertPay has not divorced itself from the worlds of HYIPs, autosurfs and cyclers and actually facilitates them.
                    What it should see are the IMers who are faced with the economic reality of having to accept payments online, who are scared of not being able to do that because they've stepped outside of some invisible boundary and had that ability removed with little or no recourse, and few alternatives.

                    I don't want to see ANY legitimate IMer hurt by ANY payment processor, Steve. I can detest the situation without detesting PayPal because I know that Internet-based fraud schemes have consumed billions of dollars in recent times. It is a sad reality that legitimate IMers are hurting because the criminals have learned to steal by the tens of millions of dollars at a time.

                    Patrick
                    The sad simple fact, Patrick, is that in my little corner of the universe I have to be concerned with being able to collect payments from my customers so I can pay the electric bill. If I can't do that through PayPal (which I still can, fortunately), I have to use whatever alternatives are available to me. If that means AlertPay, then that's that. If they are acting illegally, then they should be shut down.

                    I'm sorry, but I guess I'm not principled enough to sacrifice the well-being of my family over the question of whether or not a company is doing all it can to combat online fraud.
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              • Profile picture of the author Patrick Pretty
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                I might be impressed if you were equally appalled at Paypal's operating methods, but your focus is on hyips and my focus is on not getting robbed and my business seriously harmed by a payment processor.
                Suzanne,

                Why do you need me to be appalled at PayPal as I share my opinion about AlertPay?

                I don't want ANY honest IMer to suffer at the hands of ANY payment processor.

                My point is that no IMer is safe if the criminal IMers and hucksters keep stealing money by the tens of millions of dollars. My specific concern as an American is that less-than-reputable, less-than-stable offshore and/or boiler-room processors are tapped into the U.S. money supply at the local level, perhaps from across oceans and definitely from across borders.

                Vast sums go missing down ratholes; the cash simply disappears. In short, criminals are being supplied with unwarranted economic power -- and that power can be used to create even more brilliant disguises to bleed even more money out of the United States and to cause even more economic harm.

                As I mentioned earlier, I believe that what you are seeing at PayPal is the collateral damage from a war that never ends. No IMer will be safe with ANY payment processor if the criminals keep injecting poison at alarming levels into the commerce stream. That's what the successful prosecution of e-Gold was about -- and it's worth noting that the same prosecution team that took down e-Gold took down ASD.

                If AlertPay is willing to take problematic HYIP/autosurf and cycler business that PayPal doesn't want, then Warriors should question why.

                I do understand the anti-PayPal sentiment building up among some IMers, Suzanne. To me, though, AlertPay is no remedy as things stand.

                Even assuming there are no legal issues, it is just horrible, godawful, monumentally tone-deaf PR for AlertPay to accept this kind of business when spectacular Ponzi and fraud schemes are making headlines daily the world over.

                Patrick
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                • Profile picture of the author JDArchitecture
                  I think many people miss some important steps when dealing with their paypal account.

                  First, it should go without saying that if you're running a business, you need a business account. But don't stop there. Pay the 30 bucks per month and upgrade to a Payments Pro account.

                  Now be forewarned, unless you have a superior credit rating and history with paypal, you can expect a rolling reserve. I have a 30%/90-day reserve.

                  I was pissed at first, but as it turns out, this may very well be the insurance policy that you're looking for. And after the first 90 days, it's as if it never happened.

                  Now you may bitch about losing interest, but IMO, that's just another cost of doing business, not to mention the fact that if you use your paypal debit card for everything possible, you get back 1%. That's more than my bank gives me for savings.

                  That leads to,

                  2) Get and use a paypal debit card.

                  3) Make sure your profile business information is accurate. (see image) Many people aren't even aware of these parameters. Keep them current! If you have $8000 coming in per month and your profile says "less than $5000", that's a problem. Same story if your average transaction is $50 and your profile says "less than $25.

                  Your profile is not a place to try to game the system. Any inaccuracies can cause you grief. So stay on top of it.

                  4) If you expect an uptick in revenue, whether temporary or permanent, call paypal. Just let them know, it costs you nothing.

                  5) Do not withdraw huge chunks of cash and don't draw down your account to nothing. I pull out cash regularly. The loose formula I've set up for myself is to withdraw about 10% of my monthly income whenever my available balance hits 20% of my monthly income. This means that I always have roughly 10% of monthly in my available balance. This not only is a sign of good faith, but leaves me plenty available for debit card use.

                  6) Take care of your customers! Be responsive.

                  7) This should also go without saying, but for cryin' outloud, know the rules!

                  At least 9 times out of 10, when I've heard about shutdown the merchant violated TOS or didn't follow some of the good practice items above.

                  I started my business about 13 months ago. My income trickled in for a few months with gradual growth, then, in January, it jumped by a factor of 6+. I knew something like that was going to happen so I called them in October to let them know.

                  Now I will never assume that I'm immune, but I have followed these steps and have never had a problem.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by JDArchitecture View Post

                    I think many people miss some important steps when dealing with their paypal account.

                    First, it should go without saying that if you're running a business, you need a business account. But don't stop there. Pay the 30 bucks per month and upgrade to a Payments Pro account.

                    Now be forewarned, unless you have a superior credit rating and history with paypal, you can expect a rolling reserve. I have a 30%/90-day reserve.

                    I was pissed at first, but as it turns out, this may very well be the insurance policy that you're looking for. And after the first 90 days, it's as if it never happened.

                    Now you may bitch about losing interest, but IMO, that's just another cost of doing business, not to mention the fact that if you use your paypal debit card for everything possible, you get back 1%. That's more than my bank gives me for savings.

                    That leads to,

                    2) Get and use a paypal debit card.

                    3) Make sure your profile business information is accurate. (see image) Many people aren't even aware of these parameters. Keep them current! If you have $8000 coming in per month and your profile says "less than $5000", that's a problem. Same story if your average transaction is $50 and your profile says "less than $25.

                    Your profile is not a place to try to game the system. Any inaccuracies can cause you grief. So stay on top of it.

                    4) If you expect an uptick in revenue, whether temporary or permanent, call paypal. Just let them know, it costs you nothing.

                    5) Do not withdraw huge chunks of cash and don't draw down your account to nothing. I pull out cash regularly. The loose formula I've set up for myself is to withdraw about 10% of my monthly income whenever my available balance hits 20% of my monthly income. This means that I always have roughly 10% of monthly in my available balance. This not only is a sign of good faith, but leaves me plenty available for debit card use.

                    6) Take care of your customers! Be responsive.

                    7) This should also go without saying, but for cryin' outloud, know the rules!

                    At least 9 times out of 10, when I've heard about shutdown the merchant violated TOS or didn't follow some of the good practice items above.

                    I started my business about 13 months ago. My income trickled in for a few months with gradual growth, then, in January, it jumped by a factor of 6+. I knew something like that was going to happen so I called them in October to let them know.

                    Now I will never assume that I'm immune, but I have followed these steps and have never had a problem.

                    I missed this post due to the other noise in the thread, but these are all good points.

                    There are some "good practices" that you need to employ when using Paypal, and I think you hit on two of them:

                    1. Don't withdraw all the money. I keep 2/3 in at all times.
                    2. You should have a business acct if you're doing business.

                    There's another thread posted that gives some good advice for high volume sellers

                    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-problems.html

                    I still like the idea of more than one processor and will use all that I have now for different aspects of my business.
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                  • Profile picture of the author bobbobson
                    Originally Posted by JDArchitecture View Post

                    I think many people miss some important steps when dealing with their paypal account.

                    First, it should go without saying that if you're running a business, you need a business account. But don't stop there. Pay the 30 bucks per month and upgrade to a Payments Pro account.

                    Now be forewarned, unless you have a superior credit rating and history with paypal, you can expect a rolling reserve. I have a 30%/90-day reserve.

                    I was pissed at first, but as it turns out, this may very well be the insurance policy that you're looking for. And after the first 90 days, it's as if it never happened.

                    Now you may bitch about losing interest, but IMO, that's just another cost of doing business, not to mention the fact that if you use your paypal debit card for everything possible, you get back 1%. That's more than my bank gives me for savings.

                    That leads to,

                    2) Get and use a paypal debit card.

                    3) Make sure your profile business information is accurate. (see image) Many people aren't even aware of these parameters. Keep them current! If you have $8000 coming in per month and your profile says "less than $5000", that's a problem. Same story if your average transaction is $50 and your profile says "less than $25.

                    Your profile is not a place to try to game the system. Any inaccuracies can cause you grief. So stay on top of it.

                    4) If you expect an uptick in revenue, whether temporary or permanent, call paypal. Just let them know, it costs you nothing.

                    5) Do not withdraw huge chunks of cash and don't draw down your account to nothing. I pull out cash regularly. The loose formula I've set up for myself is to withdraw about 10% of my monthly income whenever my available balance hits 20% of my monthly income. This means that I always have roughly 10% of monthly in my available balance. This not only is a sign of good faith, but leaves me plenty available for debit card use.

                    6) Take care of your customers! Be responsive.

                    7) This should also go without saying, but for cryin' outloud, know the rules!

                    At least 9 times out of 10, when I've heard about shutdown the merchant violated TOS or didn't follow some of the good practice items above.

                    I started my business about 13 months ago. My income trickled in for a few months with gradual growth, then, in January, it jumped by a factor of 6+. I knew something like that was going to happen so I called them in October to let them know.

                    Now I will never assume that I'm immune, but I have followed these steps and have never had a problem.
                    Probably the most sensible piece of advice I've read on the whole paypal 'debate' lately. Thanks for the wisdom.
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                    • Profile picture of the author design2convert
                      No Need to be afraid, There is best alternative available which is giving best services at very low fee. Moneybooker try to use this service.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Alminc
                        I opened AlertPay personal pro account 2 months ago in order to have
                        a backup payment processor. Actually I want to gradually abandon paypal
                        and use it only to send money when needed, and replace it with AlertPay
                        and 2CO.

                        Now I have a 'problem' with AlertPay in that my deposited money is not
                        showing up in my account. I deposited 2 small sums using bank transfer
                        just to be sure the connection between my bank and AlertPay is working,
                        but it's not. Deposits go via some bank account 'Envoy Services Ltd',
                        since I am in Sweden I can't do direct bank transfer. But 6 weeks have
                        gone and the money is not showing up in my AlertPay account.
                        In my bank interface I can't see that the transactions were rejected,
                        everything looks like they went through.

                        But what pisses me off even more is that I logged two tickets at AlertPay
                        helpdesk, one almost 3 weeks ago and one last week, and there is no
                        response at all. Total silence, nothing, ghost town.

                        I also did some research and found that AlertPay was connected with some
                        scammy MLM and similar operations in Sweden, using some fake company
                        or something like that to collect money. Obviously they have questionable
                        past, but I hope they really act as a regular payment processor now.

                        Almin
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

                          Now I have a 'problem' with AlertPay in that my deposited money is not showing up in my account. I deposited 2 small sums using bank transfer just to be sure the connection between my bank and AlertPay is working, but it's not. Deposits go via some bank account 'Envoy Services Ltd', since I am in Sweden I can't do direct bank transfer. But 6 weeks have gone and the money is not showing up in my AlertPay account.
                          In my bank interface I can't see that the transactions were rejected,
                          everything looks like they went through.

                          But what pisses me off even more is that I logged two tickets at AlertPay
                          helpdesk, one almost 3 weeks ago and one last week, and there is no
                          response at all. Total silence, nothing, ghost town.

                          I also did some research and found that AlertPay was connected with some
                          scammy MLM and similar operations in Sweden, using some fake company
                          or something like that to collect money. Obviously they have questionable
                          past, but I hope they really act as a regular payment processor now.

                          Almin
                          The deposits they sent to my bank acct showed up immediately ... well, the next day actually. Sounds like there's an indirect route to take in Sweden.

                          As for MLM's, some MLM's are perfectly legal businesses, and Paypal also processes for some, whether they realize it or not.

                          http://exchangemoneyforum.com/showth...aypal-approved

                          Every company that has been named has had both Paypal and AlertPay as a processor at one time.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Rick Wilson
                    Originally Posted by JDArchitecture View Post

                    5) Do not withdraw huge chunks of cash and don't draw down your account to nothing. I pull out cash regularly. The loose formula I've set up for myself is to withdraw about 10% of my monthly income whenever my available balance hits 20% of my monthly income. This means that I always have roughly 10% of monthly in my available balance. This not only is a sign of good faith, but leaves me plenty available for debit card use.
                    I find it interesting that many people try to bring this up but what I don't understand is IF this is an issue with PP, I'm wondering why regular merchant accounts don't have an issue with transferring all of your accumulated monies to your bank accts regularly.

                    Merchant accounts generally "batch out" everything from a particular period to your listed bank account at your regular scheduled times. (Minus any possible reserves IF required by your merchant account).

                    That's NO different than my removing most of my monies in my PP each week. I only keep enough in PP account to cover any payments I might need to make.

                    Just my 3 centz for what it's worth.

                    Rick Wilson aka CorpRebel
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Rick Wilson View Post

                      I find it interesting that many people try to bring this up but what I don't understand is IF this is an issue with PP, I'm wondering why regular merchant accounts don't have an issue with transferring all of your accumulated monies to your bank accts regularly.

                      Merchant accounts generally "batch out" everything from a particular period to your listed bank account at your regular scheduled times. (Minus any possible reserves IF required by your merchant account).

                      That's NO different than my removing most of my monies in my PP each week. I only keep enough in PP account to cover any payments I might need to make.

                      Just my 3 centz for what it's worth.

                      Rick Wilson aka CorpRebel
                      Here's an interesting article on that and the legality of Paypal imposing rolling reserves. Just be aware that they do it and do it frequently. I'd rather leave my own rolling reserve than have them impose it. They are not a merchant account. They are merely a money transmitter.

                      Paypal Class Action Lawsuit 2010 | Paypal Rolling Reserves | The truth about PayPal | Paypal Illegal holds | Cowbelly Pet Photography Seattle Blog
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Patrick Pretty View Post

                  Suzanne,

                  Why do you need me to be appalled at PayPal as I share my opinion about AlertPay?

                  I don't want ANY honest IMer to suffer at the hands of ANY payment processor.

                  Patrick
                  This thread wasn't intended to be about all the evil, criminal operations in the world. Everyone is well aware of crime.

                  This thread was intended to get people to get a backup plan before they run into trouble with Paypal. Nothing more. AlertPay is one of the alternatives to Paypal and from what I've seen so far, I like it. I don't care if they process for Club whatever. Paypal did too. Paypal also processed for Wikileaks until they were pressured not to do so.

                  That is irrelevant to me. I personally don't care. I do care about what affects my business, which is payment processors that suspend or limit your account with no notice whatsoever, reach into bank accounts and remove money that is yours, refund customers that did not want a refund and cancel subscriptions that did not want to be canceled.

                  I am not currently in that position with Paypal, but there are simply too many stories for me to ignore the possibility, and thus, my thread about making a backup plan.

                  Back to the topic for those still interested.

                  When you sign up for AlertPay, there is a link to "Web" for selling from a website. You list your websites and they must be approved before you can sell from them with AlertPay.

                  I'm a designer and one of my web pages is my site to sell my mobile websites, so I listed that. You have to add a page to your TOS, which I am pretty lax about. Sort of like ... you pay me, I'll build your site.

                  I do enough pre-communication with my customers that I didn't really develop a detailed TOS. So, they declined the site and made me do a TOS to resubmit the site. lol ... I'm not upset. Actually, it's a pretty good idea for them to pre-approve websites, but just be aware of this when you sign up to AlertPay.
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                  • Profile picture of the author professorrosado
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    Back to the topic for those still interested.

                    When you sign up for AlertPay, there is a link to "Web" for selling from a website. You list your websites and they must be approved before you can sell from them with AlertPay.

                    I'm a designer and one of my web pages is my site to sell my mobile websites, so I listed that. You have to add a page to your TOS, which I am pretty lax about. Sort of like ... you pay me, I'll build your site.

                    I do enough pre-communication with my customers that I didn't really develop a detailed TOS. So, they declined the site and made me do a TOS to resubmit the site. lol ... I'm not upset. Actually, it's a pretty good idea for them to pre-approve websites, but just be aware of this when you sign up to AlertPay.
                    Yes, this was a pain for me with AlertPay, but FYI, there are OPENSOURCE TOS, Privacy & REFUND Policies available online. You can use these and modify with your business name, particular clauses and such. Just do a search for it in Google. Also WordPress has a GPL TOS and what not that is free to modify and use - perfect for blogs and other website management types.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Patrick Pretty
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    This thread wasn't intended to be about all the evil, criminal operations in the world. Everyone is well aware of crime.
                    Those evil, criminal operations are affecting the ability of IMers to do business online, Suzanne. I'd dispute your assertion that "Everyone is well aware of crime," perhaps especially how it is practiced and evolves on the Internet. Even though Internet-based fraud schemes are widely publicized, new and darker scams emerge -- and now victims are being counted in the tens of thousands in single cases.

                    In May 2010, the U.S. Postal Inspection Service revealed that AlertPay, SolidTrustPay and International Payout Solutions were processors for the alleged Pathway to Prosperity (P2P) Ponzi scheme operated by Nicoloas Smirnow. It is a remarkable case for lots of reasons

                    * Smirnow was an Internet Marketer.

                    * There allegedly are 40,000 victims "from all of the permanently inhabited continents of the world" -- 120 countries in all. (Coincidentally, the Secret Service says that ASD also may have about 40,000 victims.)

                    * The P2P scheme brought in at least $70 million. (ASD was at least $110 million.)

                    * Smirnow's last known address is in the Philippines, to which he allegedly had transferred money after fleeing Canada and from which he allegedly is waiting to be extradited to the United States on charges his web scheme fleeced investors in 48 of the 50 states.

                    * Before he became an Internet Marketer, Smirnow was a “convicted burglar, robber and drug dealer who told a former employee that he was involved in a double homicide," according to the St. Louis Post Dispatch.

                    * What did he rob? A bank.

                    * Approximately 18 percent of the P2P scam proceeds flowed through AlertPay, with about 75 percent flowing through SolidTrustPay, according to the U.S. Postal Inspection Service.

                    * The scheme "worked," in part, because Smirnow told investors that Pathway to Prosperity was not an HYIP scheme. (The term HYIP had started to become associated with crime, so the scammers came up with a new lexicon and other ways of disguising the fraud. In some cases, HYIPs/autosurfs became "revenue sharing" programs -- and prospects were told they were not making an "investment.")

                    * Some of the proceeds from the P2P scam ended up in a bank in Florida, thus polluting its deposits.

                    * The scheme was heavily promoted on the Ponzi boards, the members of which continue to be grateful to AlertPay for providing them the ability to profit from criminal scams that sprouted up after the USPIS brought the P2P case.

                    * Some of the Ponzi boards are referenced in the Smirnow/P2P complaint -- and AlertPay is well aware of the case, the activities of the promoters on the Ponzi boards, the names of the Ponzi boards and the schemes that spread virally on the Ponzi boards.

                    * Despite the fact the Smirnow/P2P case was brought more than a year ago, referenced AlertPay, referenced the Ponzi boards, became the subject of discussion in Washington's highest power corridors and is referenced in an Investor Alert put out by FINRA that warned the masses about the danger of HYIP scams and the Ponzi boards, AlertPay is still a darling of the Ponzi boards and still is conducting business with serial scammers.

                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    This thread was intended to get people to get a backup plan before they run into trouble with Paypal. Nothing more. AlertPay is one of the alternatives to Paypal and from what I've seen so far, I like it. I don't care if they process for Club whatever. Paypal did too. Paypal also processed for Wikileaks until they were pressured not to do so.
                    You "don't care" if AlertPay processes "Club whatever" -- and the reason that you "don't care" is because PayPal also was used by "Club whatever" to process funds?

                    That's a sad commentary on Internet Marketing, Suzanne -- and it also ignores the fact that PayPal froze the account, which triggered Club Asteria to tell members of its insolvent company to send it money through AlertPay and others.

                    As to the subject of WikiLeaks, hackers used the Internet to try to bring down PayPal after it stopped processing for Wikileaks and also launched DDoS attacks against the credit-card companies. Had the hackers been successful, the WSO forum here would have slowed to a crawl, and all the marketers who sell through PayPal would have been affected, thus grinding PayPal commerce to a halt and affecting thousands and thousands and thousands of IMers and their families and employees.

                    Wagenheim, though, apparently would have Internet Marketers bring "holy hell" down on PayPal.

                    "No company is beyond being done so much harm that they can't recover," he said.
                    Not even Paypal."

                    Let me tell you how crazy the world of IM is right now, Suzanne.

                    IM is so crazy that Internet Marketer Andy Bowdoin, accused of running the AdSurfDaily $110 million Ponzi scheme on the Internet, is using the Internet to raise funds for his criminal defense. He is conducting his fund-raising venture via email "blasts" to the very members he is accused of defrauding, and the blasts involve a fictitious company in Florida whose parent company is a dissolved corporation and whose affiliated company also is dissolved. All of this somehow involves a Nevada address apparently used by multiple business, including a cash-gifting scheme.

                    Bowdoin reportedly is opening a Facebook site on Monday to help him raise $500,000 -- and ASD has within its ranks self-styled "sovereign citizen" Internet Marketers who once claimed the judge overseeing the case and the Secret Service agent and federal prosecutors who brought it owed them more than $29 TRILLION -- twice the U.S. Gross Domestic Product in 2009. They'd take the purported debt in "silver," according to documents I viewed as part of my reporting.

                    In case you don't know, ASD was paying some of its employees in "ad packs" -- as opposed to paying by check -- and it was doing this AFTER its first Ponzi collapsed and it started a second Ponzi to revive the first one.

                    That's what AlertPay-enabled Centurion Wealth Circle is doing right now -- on the same forums that helped the AlertPay-enabled Smirnow/P2P spread to 120 countries across the globe.

                    Are you really sure you "don't care" who processes payments for whom, Suzanne?

                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    When you sign up for AlertPay, there is a link to "Web" for selling from a website. You list your websites and they must be approved before you can sell from them with AlertPay.

                    I'm a designer and one of my web pages is my site to sell my mobile websites, so I listed that. You have to add a page to your TOS, which I am pretty lax about. Sort of like ... you pay me, I'll build your site.

                    I do enough pre-communication with my customers that I didn't really develop a detailed TOS. So, they declined the site and made me do a TOS to resubmit the site. lol ... I'm not upset. Actually, it's a pretty good idea for them to pre-approve websites, but just be aware of this when you sign up to AlertPay.
                    CenturionWealthCircle, which also uses AlertPay, also has a TOS. But people still can register without reading it -- and they're told at the top of the page, long before the TOS link is displayed, that "8,241 other Members" have already "become part of the GREATEST MONEY MAKING CIRCLE on the net today!!"

                    They're also told that members get a "200% return from each $15 investment!"

                    Centurion does not explain that its first AlertPay-enabled Ponzi in 2011 collapsed and that it is starting a feeder Ponzi to revive the first one. The purported owner posts on at least one of the Ponzi forums referenced in the $70 million Smirnow/P2P HYIP fraud case filed more than a year ago -- and the same filing also references AlertPay, which also is referenced in the $110 million AdSurfDaily fraud filings from THREE years ago.

                    That's what "wink-nod" is, Suzanne.

                    Patrick
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Patrick Pretty View Post

                      That's what "wink-nod" is, Suzanne.

                      Patrick
                      And this is what hijacking a thread for your own agenda is. It's getting boring.


                      Back on Topic, I just got accepted by 2C0. Took awhile, and the process is more complicated, but through them you can process credit cards and Paypal, so it really gives your customers a lot of choice. So now I have the 2 backups that I wanted.
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                    • Profile picture of the author MrRSmith
                      Originally Posted by Patrick Pretty View Post

                      Those evil, criminal operations are affecting the ability of IMers to do business online, Suzanne. I'd dispute your assertion that "Everyone is well aware of crime," perhaps especially how it is practiced and evolves on the Internet. Even though Internet-based fraud schemes are widely publicized, new and darker scams emerge -- and now victims are being counted in the tens of thousands in single cases.

                      In May 2010, the U.S. Postal Inspection Service revealed that AlertPay, SolidTrustPay and International Payout Solutions were processors for the alleged Pathway to Prosperity (P2P) Ponzi scheme operated by Nicoloas Smirnow. It is a remarkable case for lots of reasons

                      * Smirnow was an Internet Marketer.

                      * There allegedly are 40,000 victims "from all of the permanently inhabited continents of the world" -- 120 countries in all. (Coincidentally, the Secret Service says that ASD also may have about 40,000 victims.)

                      * The P2P scheme brought in at least $70 million. (ASD was at least $110 million.)

                      * Smirnow's last known address is in the Philippines, to which he allegedly had transferred money after fleeing Canada and from which he allegedly is waiting to be extradited to the United States on charges his web scheme fleeced investors in 48 of the 50 states.

                      * Before he became an Internet Marketer, Smirnow was a “convicted burglar, robber and drug dealer who told a former employee that he was involved in a double homicide," according to the St. Louis Post Dispatch.

                      * What did he rob? A bank.

                      * Approximately 18 percent of the P2P scam proceeds flowed through AlertPay, with about 75 percent flowing through SolidTrustPay, according to the U.S. Postal Inspection Service.

                      * The scheme "worked," in part, because Smirnow told investors that Pathway to Prosperity was not an HYIP scheme. (The term HYIP had started to become associated with crime, so the scammers came up with a new lexicon and other ways of disguising the fraud. In some cases, HYIPs/autosurfs became "revenue sharing" programs -- and prospects were told they were not making an "investment.")

                      * Some of the proceeds from the P2P scam ended up in a bank in Florida, thus polluting its deposits.

                      * The scheme was heavily promoted on the Ponzi boards, the members of which continue to be grateful to AlertPay for providing them the ability to profit from criminal scams that sprouted up after the USPIS brought the P2P case.

                      * Some of the Ponzi boards are referenced in the Smirnow/P2P complaint -- and AlertPay is well aware of the case, the activities of the promoters on the Ponzi boards, the names of the Ponzi boards and the schemes that spread virally on the Ponzi boards.

                      * Despite the fact the Smirnow/P2P case was brought more than a year ago, referenced AlertPay, referenced the Ponzi boards, became the subject of discussion in Washington's highest power corridors and is referenced in an Investor Alert put out by FINRA that warned the masses about the danger of HYIP scams and the Ponzi boards, AlertPay is still a darling of the Ponzi boards and still is conducting business with serial scammers.



                      You "don't care" if AlertPay processes "Club whatever" -- and the reason that you "don't care" is because PayPal also was used by "Club whatever" to process funds?

                      That's a sad commentary on Internet Marketing, Suzanne -- and it also ignores the fact that PayPal froze the account, which triggered Club Asteria to tell members of its insolvent company to send it money through AlertPay and others.

                      As to the subject of WikiLeaks, hackers used the Internet to try to bring down PayPal after it stopped processing for Wikileaks and also launched DDoS attacks against the credit-card companies. Had the hackers been successful, the WSO forum here would have slowed to a crawl, and all the marketers who sell through PayPal would have been affected, thus grinding PayPal commerce to a halt and affecting thousands and thousands and thousands of IMers and their families and employees.

                      Wagenheim, though, apparently would have Internet Marketers bring "holy hell" down on PayPal.

                      "No company is beyond being done so much harm that they can't recover," he said.
                      Not even Paypal."

                      Let me tell you how crazy the world of IM is right now, Suzanne.

                      IM is so crazy that Internet Marketer Andy Bowdoin, accused of running the AdSurfDaily $110 million Ponzi scheme on the Internet, is using the Internet to raise funds for his criminal defense. He is conducting his fund-raising venture via email "blasts" to the very members he is accused of defrauding, and the blasts involve a fictitious company in Florida whose parent company is a dissolved corporation and whose affiliated company also is dissolved. All of this somehow involves a Nevada address apparently used by multiple business, including a cash-gifting scheme.

                      Bowdoin reportedly is opening a Facebook site on Monday to help him raise $500,000 -- and ASD has within its ranks self-styled "sovereign citizen" Internet Marketers who once claimed the judge overseeing the case and the Secret Service agent and federal prosecutors who brought it owed them more than $29 TRILLION -- twice the U.S. Gross Domestic Product in 2009. They'd take the purported debt in "silver," according to documents I viewed as part of my reporting.

                      In case you don't know, ASD was paying some of its employees in "ad packs" -- as opposed to paying by check -- and it was doing this AFTER its first Ponzi collapsed and it started a second Ponzi to revive the first one.

                      That's what AlertPay-enabled Centurion Wealth Circle is doing right now -- on the same forums that helped the AlertPay-enabled Smirnow/P2P spread to 120 countries across the globe.

                      Are you really sure you "don't care" who processes payments for whom, Suzanne?



                      CenturionWealthCircle, which also uses AlertPay, also has a TOS. But people still can register without reading it -- and they're told at the top of the page, long before the TOS link is displayed, that "8,241 other Members" have already "become part of the GREATEST MONEY MAKING CIRCLE on the net today!!"

                      They're also told that members get a "200% return from each $15 investment!"

                      Centurion does not explain that its first AlertPay-enabled Ponzi in 2011 collapsed and that it is starting a feeder Ponzi to revive the first one. The purported owner posts on at least one of the Ponzi forums referenced in the $70 million Smirnow/P2P HYIP fraud case filed more than a year ago -- and the same filing also references AlertPay, which also is referenced in the $110 million AdSurfDaily fraud filings from THREE years ago.

                      That's what "wink-nod" is, Suzanne.

                      Patrick
                      Patrick, that is an encyclopedia of info that I'm gonna have to comb through. But thank you so much for your insight and knowledge.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Patrick Pretty
                        Originally Posted by MrRSmith View Post

                        Patrick, that is an encyclopedia of info that I'm gonna have to comb through. But thank you so much for your insight and knowledge.
                        You are welcome, Mr.RSmith.

                        Here is a capsule of another new AlertPay-enabled "program":

                        Name: AutoXTen
                        Pitch: Turn $10 into $199,240." Churches welcome.
                        Accompanying claim: "We are only accepting Alertpay. Paypal limits the amount of transactions we can make per day, and we would have to cap people off from becoming paid members."

                        NOTES: Leading pitchman was part of two previous "programs" that claimed to pay members to record license-plate numbers to assist the AMBER Alert system recover abducted children. The U.S. Department of Justice, which administers AmberAlert, disclaimed any ties. One of the "programs" came under fire by Fox News outlets in major American cities. The other "program" later claimed it provided a free cell phone with unlimited talk and text for $10 a month and had an exclusive branding deal with Apple's iPhone -- while using Apple graphics.

                        The free iPhone with unlimited talk and text for $10 a month never materialized. After that, the company entered the "mortgage reduction business," saying it was the "MORAL OBLIGATION" of churches to promote the program. Its domain used a proxy in the Cayman Islands.

                        Not to be outdone, the scammers later positioned a bottled-water product and a supplement as cancer cures.

                        Patrick
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      • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Look Patrick. You've written around 3,000 words about crime, fraud, hyips, ponzis ... you name it.

        This was meant to be a proactive thread about alternatives and getting off your butt and getting a backup plan before it's too late.

        I read everything you wrote and did my own research and I found numerous posts in serps about AlertPay suspending hyips, and about their strict money laundering and terrorist funding/anti-fraud measures. Paypal is no stranger to hyips and autosurfs. There are threads about which ones accept Paypal in 2006. Looks like they suspended hyips and autosurfs at some point, but they did cash in on processing payments for them.

        http://www.talkgold DOT com/forum/r66804-.html
        http://hywd DOT info/node/498

        Equally, I don't like Paypal pretending that they're shutting honest marketers down with the pretense of risk prevention .... wiping out an entire business in a single moment right after a big launch when they particularly have more to gain, refunding customers who did not request a refund, canceling subscriptions that did not request canceling, reaching into people's bank accounts and robbing them of money they earned ... and on and on.

        If you really want to imply how evil AlertPay is, why don't you start your own thread and see where it goes. I encourage everyone when trying out a new payment processor to start slow and test it. Get some payments and make some withdrawals and see how it goes.
        Suzanne,

        Patrick is an award-winning investigative journalist who specializes in this field.

        Having said that, your positions are not mutually exclusive - you're saying don't put all your eggs in the Paypal basket and Patrick is saying be careful in your choice of alternative basket.


        Patrick,

        Thank you for taking the time to post. I, for one, will be taking your comments on board. The problem you have is that quite a lot of people don't like hard reality and they resent people who try to take their dream away from them.

        People like Bernie Madoff thrive on that.


        Martin
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

          Suzanne,

          Patrick is an award-winning investigative journalist who specializes in this field.

          Having said that, your positions are not mutually exclusive - you're saying don't put all your eggs in the Paypal basket and Patrick is saying be careful in your choice of alternative basket.

          Martin
          Ah ... but he seems to painting Paypal with a very pretty brush, when they also processed for the same people in addition to their highly questionable policies regarding other people's businesses and money.

          I imagine that if people actually had some money left after Paypal was done with them, and they hired an attorney, that some of the tactics that they use, wouldn't hold up in court.

          Don't use AlertPay if you don't want to. I'm testing them out along with other processors and that was the whole point of the thread ....

          Get a backup plan going. Maybe you won't settle with AlertPay, but if your alternative accounts exist and are operational, you are in a much better position to protect what's left of your business after Paypal chews you up and spits you out.
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  • Profile picture of the author n1985
    Very useful advice. Cheers.
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  • Profile picture of the author mywebwork
    This has certainly been a very intriguing and useful thread, many thanks to Suzanne for posting it and for the great responses within it.

    Like many other Warriors my partner and I have been very concerned about having all of our "eggs in one basket" with PayPal, especially as one of our current products and three of our upcoming ones are recurring payment products. We do currently use ClickBank as well, but the lions share of our revenue comes from PayPal. We also use PayPal to pay our VA's, whose work is invaluable to us. Losing PayPal would literally kill our business as it stands now, and I don't like that one bit!

    I have actually spent a few hours today "playing" in the AlertPay Sandbox, writing and testing IPN code in preparation for using both AlertPay and PayPal as payment options for our current and future offerings. I have to admit that I am impressed with the documentation and resources AlertPay has provided for this. I'm also impressed that AlertPay has a representative (Chris@AlertPay) on this forum, it makes me feel that the company is open to working with Internet Marketers. And I'll also confess that the fact that they are located here in Montreal and that I might even be able to go down and visit them hasn't escaped me either (although our business is actually located in the US).

    While I have yet to have an unpleasant experience with Paypal (to the contrary they have all been good or even excellent) the horror stories reported by some fellow Warriors has been cause for concern. The nightmare faced by Rob (ccmusicman) earlier this week was particularly disturbing, as I know him to be someone of great integrity - if it could happen to him then it could happen to us as well.

    The reviews of AlertPay and the recommendations of fellow Warriors make it seem like an ideal solution. But I also have noted a few posts, particularly the two by Patrick Pretty, that cast some negative light upon AlertPay. I would be very interested to see a response from Chris regarding this.

    We have yet to apply to AlertPay, and before we make the commitment I'd still like to get more information and hear more users experiences. So once again thank you to all who have participated in this thread, these types of threads are what makes the Warrior Forum a truly indispensable resource fore anyone doing business on the Internet.

    Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author paul wolfe
    Susanne

    Thanks for starting a great thread. Been busy, taken me a few days to get here to post.

    Like you I read Rob (ccmusicman's) post and decided it was time to get back ups/alternatives in place. Like you I went to 2co.checkout.

    I applied on Sunday or Monday - got an email from them last night. Couple fo things I need to add to my site (privacy policy/refund policy) and I'm up and running.

    I'll still be using Paypal - but I'll be switching new membership subscribers over to 2co.checkout. How are you getting on with your application?



    Paul

    PS to Rob - I'd be interested in following your blog on your Paypal dispute....I'll PM you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Super Warrior
    Nice post! very good information indeed. Yes, a backup plan is a necessity. You can't rely only on PayPal.


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  • Profile picture of the author seo slayer
    Paypal is becoming too much strict these days! The main problem is - WE CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT PAYPAL! People from 190+ countries use paypal!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ian McConnell
    Great post Suzanne... Any good business person should always have a few payment alternatives.
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  • Profile picture of the author SebastianJ
    I was initially thinking of going with Paypal but since reading this thread and ccmusicmans thread -http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ut-paypal.html - I've also started looking into other options.

    I'll definitely take a look at AlertPay, 2CO, Plimus and Clickbank.

    Thanks for the heads up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Footynutjack
    Looks good.

    Nicely Explained.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rayday
    Wow! This is such a GREAT discussion! Much needed and appreciated. Some really good advice on here. Warriors are so helpful!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author mrIgor
    Thanks for nice info.
    Will they actually work with other contries that they dont work now with?
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  • Profile picture of the author Magnet4Marketing
    Great post, many years ago when I set up my online art business I actually had PayPal suspend my account for no apparant reason. I lost close to 2k dollars and had to source an alternative. Though I'm now in the MMO high risk bracket running an online business subscription directory I am well aware of how ruthless PayPal can be, thanks for sharing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    Thank's Suzanne, this is important information and strategies to share...

    It hasn't been mentioned, but one downside to AlertPay from what I've been hearing/reading is considerably lower conversion rates. I've seen 40% less conversions quoted on the forum.

    PayPal has a brand advantage that shows up in customer's willingness to buy using them. I'd be interested to hear if any warriors have used AlertPay and compared it's impact on conversion to PayPal?
    _____
    Bruce
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by brucerby View Post

      Thank's Suzanne, this is important information and strategies to share...

      It hasn't been mentioned, but one downside to AlertPay from what I've been hearing/reading is considerably lower conversion rates. I've seen 40% less conversions quoted on the forum.

      PayPal has a brand advantage that shows up in customer's willingness to buy using them. I'd be interested to hear if any warriors have used AlertPay and compared it's impact on conversion to PayPal?
      _____
      Bruce
      What do you think of 2CO for conversions? Heard any numbers on them?
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        What do you think of 2CO for conversions? Heard any numbers on them?
        Suzanne, I've heard more positives about 2CO than AlertPay in that regard.

        A few years ago, I had a client/partner relationship on a large ticket product we were selling. We offered PayPal and 2CO...We actually thought more would choose 2CO, but just the opposite...most bought through PP.

        But, I suspect (only a guess) because 2CO allows buyers to pay with CC OR use PP, it may end up being the better/best of all worlds anyway, excepting for your own merchant account.

        I know I am signing with AlertPay and 2CO shortly....too risky with PP alone.
        _____
        Bruce
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  • Profile picture of the author ganesh
    A very useful post. I am planning to use Moneybookers as an alternative.
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  • Profile picture of the author ashishaffiliate
    paypal is worse in India. it has imposed many restrictions. we can't purchase using our paypal fund.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Any other Paypal Alternatives that people are using? I'm still waiting to hear from 2CO
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Mike Grant View Post

      As mentioned earlier, Serve if your customers are US based.
      While I'm not particularly interested in serving high risk countries, I'd prefer something more International. I have always had customers from UK, Australia, Canada, India, etc.
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      • Profile picture of the author handmade
        Thanks for the warnings, I personally haven't had any issues with paypal as of yet and hope not to. I actually have a team of 5 people at paypal that offered to handle my account exclusively. Not sure why but it is nice to send an email at any time and get a response from the same person and be able to have an idea about what I'm talking about. I run adaptive payment scripts on my site and also subscription scripts all linking to paypal. So if paypal would screw me, I'm not sure what I would do. Maybe need to start thinking of a backup, but I fear it wouldn't be too easy to integrate. The additional bank accounts is a good tip. I wonder if paypal has to report any of the income to the feds? Anyone know?
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by handmade View Post

          Thanks for the warnings, I personally haven't had any issues with paypal as of yet and hope not to. I actually have a team of 5 people at paypal that offered to handle my account exclusively. Not sure why but it is nice to send an email at any time and get a response from the same person and be able to have an idea about what I'm talking about. I run adaptive payment scripts on my site and also subscription scripts all linking to paypal. So if paypal would screw me, I'm not sure what I would do. Maybe need to start thinking of a backup, but I fear it wouldn't be too easy to integrate. The additional bank accounts is a good tip. I wonder if paypal has to report any of the income to the feds? Anyone know?
          Yes, they do.

          PayPal Institutes New Policy Thanks to IRS Reporting Requirements
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          • Profile picture of the author handmade

            "You acknowledge that in starting in 2011, PayPal will report to the Internal Revenue Service the total amount of the payments you receive each calendar year into all the Accounts you own if you(i) receive more than $20,000, and (ii) receive more than 200 payments, in that calendar year."
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken28
    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

    get two bank accounts. After you make a Paypal withdrawal and it hits your bank account, go take it out of that account and put it into the account that is not connected to Paypal. Simple. Then they cannot touch it.
    This is exactly what I described when Rob got screwed a couple weeks ago with PayPal. I've been doing it for quite some time now, and I suggest everyone look into it.

    What I do is have one account, say TD Canada Trust, and I withdrawal money from PayPal and deposit into that account. Then when the funds have been deposited, I go into TD Canada Trust online and send myself an e-mail money transfer to my account at CIBC. It costs $1.50 for the e-mail money transfer, but is still less than it would cost be in gas to drive to the bank and physically withdrawal the money and drive to CIBC to make a deposit.

    Remember I'm in Canada. I'm not sure if your bank will call it an e-mail money transfer where you live, but they should have something similar.

    If PayPal ever decides to shut me down and pull a stunt like hey did with Rob and take thousands out of my account for refunds, well, they aren't getting it cause the money is simply in another account totally not connected with PayPal.

    I'm going to look at Alert Pay right now. Never used it before but obviously worth a look to use as my backup's backup
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  • Profile picture of the author cantaxian
    Yes, I think more people using different payment processors will definitely help businesses and people to implement and accept payments through other processors. Paypal has spoiled the market.

    @ Ashishaffiliate
    I also share the same name as yours, Btw aren't you having a credit card to use with paypal ? What payment processors other than paypal do you use ?.
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  • Profile picture of the author terrencewan
    Great post and i absolutely agreed,
    i got Paypal and AlertPay acct.

    In short, never put all your eggs
    inside one basket.
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  • Profile picture of the author quiescen
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick Pretty
    Quick addendum:

    There have been lots of comments here recently concerning marketing on YouTube and whether Google is going to give IMers the boot.

    It's worth noting that an IMer/promoter of the Club Asteria HYIP used PayPal's name on YouTube to sanitize the scheme -- along with intellectual property stolen from Warner Music Group.

    Patrick
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    Happy that I have an AlertPay account as well. Think I WILL looking into 2CO too. Thanks Suzanne!
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  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    I have used AlertPay for several years. I have never had any problems. Each year there have been improvements in site navigation, speed, and support. In my opinion it is every bit as good as PayPal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patricia Sphar
    To: CHRIS from ALERTPAY: Where on earth are you already??? There is no excuse for not responding to these statements/queries regarding AlertPay and Ponzi schemes. While Paypal is irresponsible for not following due process in investigating vendors' accounts, they do need to exercise diligence in stopping online fraud. AlertPay needs to get on the ball as well. This thread is fantastic in presenting all points of view--now where is Chris??
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  • Profile picture of the author Maxin Media
    I have had a mixed experience with PayPal, several times I have had my account frozen, with a request to forward them proof of residency or some other document. It has always been pretty simple and quick to get this resolved.

    However, what I find puzzling is the repeated requests (over two or three years) for the same documentation, I must have had the account frozen three or four times now, and had to send the exact same documentation each time, exact copies, each time the documentation was identical. Seems a little odd to me, it's just wasting everybodies time.
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  • Profile picture of the author sdbagley
    I guess I have been very lucky, as of yet, I have never had a problem with paypal that wasn't resolved over the phone with customer support.
    Does anyone remember yowcow? (just curious)
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  • Profile picture of the author indyonline
    Some good points and tips. I did this years ago. =)
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  • Profile picture of the author rachs
    I love alertpay too. Used it for 6 month and never had any issue. Their Customer Services is very good.

    For paypal you will got their respone around 1 month up lol. And they can suspended your account without any noticed.

    Not leave everything on internet/paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jay Moreno
    great thread - some interesting posts for sure... i haven't had any serious issues with Paypal and actually found them helpful in certain circumstances am processing thousands of dollars monthly through them, but it does concern me that at the flick of a button it could all stop. Certainly if they reversed payment i would be screwed!

    Have been looking at a number of backup payment gateways, including 2CO and authorize.net - one of the newer models out there right now is a company called Stripe. I recently just got invited to trial the system but I was just wondering if anyone else had tried them out and had any comments about them? Or do i have to be the guinea pig here! lol
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    • Profile picture of the author sb
      Originally Posted by Jay Moreno View Post

      great thread - some interesting posts for sure... i haven't had any serious issues with Paypal and actually found them helpful in certain circumstances am processing thousands of dollars monthly through them, but it does concern me that at the flick of a button it could all stop. Certainly if they reversed payment i would be screwed!

      Have been looking at a number of backup payment gateways, including 2CO and authorize.net - one of the newer models out there right now is a company called Stripe. I recently just got invited to trial the system but I was just wondering if anyone else had tried them out and had any comments about them? Or do i have to be the guinea pig here! lol
      I just got approval to start using them today so I guess we're both in the same boat. Have to test them out.
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    *SIGH* not like Suzanne needs the help but: WE GET IT.....lay off her will ya?

    Summary of this thread in less than 20 words: don't rely solely on one payment process. Have several backups. 'nuff said.

    /thread
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Gordon Gekko View Post

    With 2CheckOut, can you receive private, non-business payments? For example, I buy items off of eBay and Craigslist and sell items on those sites. Can I receive and send payments with 2CO directly from another purpose without it being setup as a "business?"
    The thing with 2CO is that all of your sales have to come from one domain. So in order to use them for everything I sell, I would have to make a payment page on the one domain I submitted to them for that product.

    The site I submitted was specifically for building mobile websites, so I will use 2CO for that at least but I could probably also add in other services as long as all of your services or products come from the one site.

    Wish it weren't like that, but it is. While my business is largely graphic design, I operate as a sole proprietor so I didn't have to submit any business documents to 2CO, but you would have to have one site to do business from with 2CO.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chr
    I feel that if your running a completely fair, moral, and ethical business, then you should have no trouble with Paypal.
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    • Profile picture of the author MrRSmith
      Originally Posted by Gordon Gekko View Post

      Pass whatever that is you're smoking.
      Ouch. Kinda funny but ouch.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patricia Sphar
    It's pretty difficult to set up a business account if you have poor credit (millions of unemployed people are in this group), so you have to start small and simple if you want to make money online. Also, while enough has been said on this thread re AlertPay, etc., the fact remains that money processors who allow criminal activity do affect all IMers, so ignoring that won't make the issue go away. However, don't expect IMers to turn away from AlertPay, etc. because they do need an alternative to Paypal. Paypal may be shutting down criminal activity, but they are committing criminal activity themselves in denying due process to the many honest vendors that they shut down. OP made legitimate points re Paypal. Patrick made legitimate points re AlertPay. Are we done here? Terrific thread with lots of great info. And Chris of AlertPay is a total jerk for refusing to respond to Patrick's points. NOT COOL!!
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  • Profile picture of the author warriorkay
    Thanks, Suzanne, for these tips. I shared similar tips on this thread:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-problems.html

    No doubts, MANY people have had their accounts terminated
    who didn't do any significant wrong, apart from just being unaware
    of the things they were supposed to do. I still feel that if majority
    of us want to avoid problems with paypal, we should do as much
    of what they require as possible.

    Edit: I have also referenced this thread on that thread, to get
    more people on the "know" re what is needed to be on the safe
    side of Paypal,

    Kingsley


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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by warriorkay View Post

      Thanks, Suzanne, for these tips. I shared similar tips on this thread:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-problems.html

      No doubts, MANY people have had their accounts terminated
      who didn't do any significant wrong, apart from just being unaware
      of the things they were supposed to do. I still feel that if majority
      of us want to avoid problems with paypal, we should do as much
      of what they require as possible.

      Kingsley
      Yeah ... I referenced your thread earlier. Great tips, especially for high volume Paypal sellers.
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    • Profile picture of the author aula
      Originally Posted by warriorkay View Post

      MANY people have had their Paypal accounts terminated
      who didn't do any significant wrong
      .
      And more people had their money stolen by Paypal,
      and many people also had heart attacks and strokes while shocked at the absurdity and sickening dishonesty of Paypal employees
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  • Profile picture of the author woodymcgrath
    Thanks for the reminder to have backup payment options in place.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    UPDATE ON MY ALERT PAY ACCOUNT

    I just received an email from AlertPay. They finished reviewing my site, plrstyle.com

    Here's the email:

    Thank you for submitting your website for review. A decision has been rendered for your website, plrstyle.com.

    You may accept the following payment methods through your website:

    AlertPay Balance
    Visa
    MasterCard
    American Express

    Your payments will be held for 7 days before they will be released to your account. Please note that hold times are standard for all AlertPay sellers and depend on various factors including account age and industry. Holds are necessary to cover chargebacks and enhance the security of our system. This time period may be subject to change after you have established your business with us.

    We have changed your business category from Services/Graphic and commercial design to Multi-Level Marketing/Affiliate Marketing. This is to ensure that you are paying the fees that are appropriate for your industry.

    Based on your business category and the possible risks associated with it, we have also changed your fee type from Personal Pro/Regular Business to Restricted Business.
    My business is selling blogs that I design. Period. It's not even close to an MLM, nor is it Affiliate Marketing. There's no way I will use a payment processor that categorizes my site as either of those.

    So I've closed the AlertPay account. End of test for AlertPay for me.

    I've been accepted by 2CO and will be testing out their usefulness to my business and looking for other alternatives, but AlertPay is out for me (and not for any of the reasons that PP has stated in this thread). If that were the case, I would also have to rule out Paypal and probably most other money processors.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post



    2. If you are in the high risk MMO niche, get two bank accounts. After you make a Paypal withdrawal and it hits your bank account, go take it out of that account and put it into the account that is not connected to Paypal. Simple. Then they cannot touch it.
    This is absolutely not true. I worked for one of the largest banks in the United States for over 8 years. They can and will reverse the deposit whether money is in your account or not. If there is no money, it will just overdraw your account and leave you with a negative balance, which if you do not rectify in a given amount of time, the bank will charge off the account and send it to collections.

    If you moved the money into an account at the same bank, they will simply grab the funds from that account to bring your account to a zero balance.

    It is no different than if you deposited a fraudulent check into your account. A lot of people think that if it "clears" in a few days they are safe. If it is reported as fraud, even 6 weeks later, the check will be charged back to your account. That is how so many of these lottery scams work.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      This is absolutely not true. I worked for one of the largest banks in the United States for over 8 years. They can and will reverse the deposit whether money is in your account or not. If there is no money, it will just overdraw your account and leave you with a negative balance, which if you do not rectify in a given amount of time, the bank will charge off the account and send it to collections.
      Yeah ... it's already been clarified earlier in the thread that will "take" funds from an account that has no funds in it to take.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Another good option is to talk to your bank. All of the large banks have a merchant services line of business and offer the ability to take payments online. Minus the setup and application fees, their processing fees are usually less than PayPal's.
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  • Profile picture of the author savvybizbuilder
    Thanks for the tips. But now, I don't have any trouble with Paypal except for the delay sometimes to get it in to my bank accounts.
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  • Profile picture of the author sadiecopywriter
    Wow, for once I'm ahead of the curve with 2 bank accounts. I already do that part of the advice not because I am afraid of PayPal but because I've always been afraid of someone hacking my PayPal.

    But since it is the only payment method I have right now, I'll have to rethink that part of it.

    Mercedes
    writetherightstuff.com web writing services
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by sadiecopywriter View Post

      Wow, for once I'm ahead of the curve with 2 bank accounts. I already do that part of the advice not because I am afraid of PayPal but because I've always been afraid of someone hacking my PayPal.

      But since it is the only payment method I have right now, I'll have to rethink that part of it.

      Mercedes
      writetherightstuff.com web writing services
      You might want to look into 2CO. I just got accepted. It costs $49 application fee, but a guy just posted a thread with a code to make that fee go away.

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ucks-here.html
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      • Profile picture of the author espe
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        You might want to look into 2CO. I just got accepted. It costs $49 application fee, but a guy just posted a thread with a code to make that fee go away.
        I haven't had any problem using Paypal, but I really liked this thread just to know the alternatives available

        Anyway, What do you think about people launching WSOs here in the forum? I have seen most of them using Paypal, and I'm planning to use it for my upcoming WSO. I really dont know if I should use Paypal because of all the "horror stories"

        :confused: It's a hard decision
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by espe View Post

          I haven't had any problem using Paypal, but I really liked this thread just to know the alternatives available

          Anyway, What do you think about people launching WSOs here in the forum? I have seen most of them using Paypal, and I'm planning to use it for my upcoming WSO. I really dont know if I should use Paypal because of all the "horror stories"

          :confused: It's a hard decision
          It depends on a few things. Do you have a premium or business Paypal acct? If you have a personal account, there could be problems.

          Have you been making money using the account? Often, I hear a lot of the problems begin when there is all of a sudden, unusual activity in the account ... like you're making nothing and now you're making a couple thousand a day.

          People have suggested to give Paypal a call before a big launch. There have also been the same type of horror stories from people who actually did give Paypal a call beforehand, so I don't know how much that helps.
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          • Profile picture of the author espe
            It depends on a few things. Do you have a premium or business Paypal acct? If you have a personal account, there could be problems.

            Have you been making money using the account? Often, I hear a lot of the problems begin when there is all of a sudden, unusual activity in the account ... like you're making nothing and now you're making a couple thousand a day.

            People have suggested to give Paypal a call before a big launch. There have also been the same type of horror stories from people who actually did give Paypal a call beforehand, so I don't know how much that helps.
            Well, is a business account verified with VCC (because they dont accept my Visa CC from Argentina, and also they dont accept any non US bank account)

            I receive money from CPAlead, Sharecash and Fiverr monthly, but it is never like a "Product launch" so they may find "unusual activity"...

            Maybe I should better use 2CO and avoid all the headache from Paypal, it will somehow reduce the sales but I think it can be safer in the long run :/

            P.S: I will try to call them though, just to verify if they like my product or not :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Mary Wilhite
    I use PayPal and never been in that situation but I would say Suzzane that this is one great information to have my lights turned on...

    Thanks for posting.
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  • Profile picture of the author tim_benedict
    My main beef with paypal is that they will not give you a paypal debit card unless you have a bank account attached to the account, AND you send the card to a physical address. I lived in the mountains for years where there was not rural delivery, and all my mail was done via a post office box - and that kept Paypal from letting me have a debit card. Of course their one account per person limit also sucks because I like to keep different websites paying into different accounts (easier to track money that way), especially if one site is a jv with someone else. I actually have 4 accounts at paypal but I am very careful to keep all details in each account completely different - from phone numbers, to connected credit cards (I actually have one tied to a moneytree credit card of all things-but it works) and physical addresses. So far, they haven't shut me down, though I know I'm playing with fire if I start pulling big bucks and they audit me. So I'm definitely looking at backup options.

    I do like the one suggestion to get sites pre-approved by paypal before going live. I had seen that advice elsewhere as well, so I suspect there is something to it.

    Anyone use authorize.net for anything? I have several clients using them, clients that came to me with pre-existing accounts there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mary D
    I looked into 2Co a while ago..While Im not completely sure of, it seems they handle sales taxes, and that is a great feature. However last time I looked into it, their chargeback fee was looking high to me. I'd love to hear your opinions regarding their services terms.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Mary D View Post

      I looked into 2Co a while ago..While Im not completely sure of, it seems they handle sales taxes, and that is a great feature. However last time I looked into it, their chargeback fee was looking high to me. I'd love to hear your opinions regarding their services terms.
      I jut got accepted and haven't looked at the fees too much. Found this page
      What are the Chargeback fees? - 2Checkout.com

      Never had many chargebacks with Paypal so don't really anticipate a problem with 2CO.
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  • Profile picture of the author sb
    This may be a little off topic here but some of you may like squareup.com for point of sale payments. I'm set up with them but haven't tried them out yet.

    From their site:

    2.75% per swipe for all cards
    One simple rate, including American Express.
    Next-day payout
    Automatic direct deposits to your bank account.
    Free reader, free app
    For iPhone, iPad, iPod touch and Android.
    Fast setup
    Take your first credit card payment in minutes.
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  • Profile picture of the author dorianjohn425
    Is there a cost needed to sign-up an account at AlertPay? My first time to hear that though and thanks for sharing this info
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    always have a backup plan.

    that is the overall message i hear in here. And if you are relying on paypal as your number one payment processor then you are not following this rule. Backup of a backup plan.
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  • Profile picture of the author Muhammadgulzarji
    Banned
    Yes you are right and i am agree with you. Thanks for sharing knowledge with us.
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  • If only I could give you 10x the THANKS then I already did. Thanks a lot for this post.
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  • Profile picture of the author goldmineberry
    Banned
    Great advice.

    I totally agree with this - "get two bank accounts. After you make a Paypal withdrawal and it hits your bank account, go take it out of that account and put it into the account that is not connected to Paypal. Simple. Then they cannot touch it."

    I can't find any other advice better than this. Thanks.

    Kind Regards,
    Anson
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Stripe: That's one I haven't heard of yet. Will look it up. I just posted another thread about Amazon Payments. I couldn't believe how easy it was to sign up and get a business account. Didn't even realize that Amazon had this.

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-payments.html
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  • Profile picture of the author abulalionline
    Thank you but i am still afriad of paypal for my new launch. i dont want them to limit my account when i make lots of money from launch. i think i will look for other type payment system than paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Syamsul Alam
    Thanks to this post, I just setup a new alertpay account...
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  • Profile picture of the author Buddha94
    I trust paypal at the moment, nice post anyway!
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  • Profile picture of the author niravmehta
    Thanks for the tips! Withdrawing your money regularly is the best option - PayPal even gives automatic daily withdrawals to your bank account if you wish.

    I haven't done million dollars with PayPal yet, but consistently in two figures / month for quite some time. And I haven't had problems yet.

    I think it's also got to do a lot with the kind of products you sell, disputes from customers and getting caught in whatever algorithm PayPal is running to reduce / prevent troubles for its users...
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  • Profile picture of the author sb
    Just learned about this, signed up and got approved. Suited perfectly for offlline marketers but will work for some onliners as well.

    I learned about it from this Warrior Forum link: http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ds-paypal.html

    Evie offers you this Free Report and this is how I'm going to handle payments from my clients from now on. Killer!
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    • Profile picture of the author Local
      Banned
      Originally Posted by sb View Post

      Just learned about this, signed up and got approved. Suited perfectly for offlline marketers but will work for some onliners as well.

      I learned about it from this Warrior Forum link: http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ds-paypal.html

      Evie offers you this Free Report and this is how I'm going to handle payments from my clients from now on. Killer!
      Unfortunately my entire post offering the free report is gone!

      I have no idea where it went or why?

      Ciao,
      Evie
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      • Profile picture of the author sb
        Originally Posted by Local View Post

        Unfortunately my entire post offering the free report is gone!

        I have no idea where it went or why?

        Ciao,
        Evie
        Odd. Probably Cyber-Gremlins.
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Ayres
    what is the advantage of having a Pro/Premium account instead of a business account with paypal?
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Frank Ayres View Post

      what is the advantage of having a Pro/Premium account instead of a business account with paypal?
      I don't know much about Paypal Pro account. I have a business account. But isn't it more like a merchant account? I see that it is integrated with a lot of shopping cart systems to accept credit cards from your websites.
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  • Profile picture of the author Local
    Banned
    No matter what, never put all of your eggs in one basket.

    Anything can happen and you need to spread around your risk.

    Ciao,
    Evie
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    • Profile picture of the author Pauly60451
      Thanks Suzanne.

      After reading this - http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...e-lawsuit.html - I was just about to open a thread on this very topic. Had I not the presence of mind to use the search feature first, I would likely have written nearly verbatim what you've already said.

      I too am fond of keeping an extra payment processor in my pocket. (I prefer 2CO.com) I do not, however, allow my money to languish long in my PP account. I move out the bulk of it as often as necessary, sometimes daily. PayPal is not a bank and should not be used as one.

      I have 2 bank accounts set up at the same bank and they are purposely set up to not sweep funds from one to the other. In other words, if one of them were to go into the red, the funds would not automatically be sucked out of the other to cover the shortage. I stay on top of things, via online banking, and the day a deposit shows up in the account tied to my PP account, I manually move it to the other account.

      A little planning and forethought go a long way to preserving your financial sanity.
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  • Profile picture of the author Simon74
    Great post Suzanne, I had some problems with paypal lately and I was looking to change merchant thank you for your advice.

    Simon
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Tyler
    Great advices and good information. My best advice is to withdraw your money at a weekly basis, because you never know what the next blind-shoot PayPal is planning.

    Never had a limited account but I know dudes that have,
    Mike Tyler.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizlinkx
    Thanks diversification is always great advice. I recently signed up to alertpay as an alternative. Looking forward to checking out their service.
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  • Profile picture of the author NateC
    Luckily I have not had too many problems with PayPal, although I only use it for my smaller volume products and services. I use Flagship Merchant services for my larger products. Great info.
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  • Profile picture of the author scsheldon33
    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

    First off I have to say that I have never had a limited account or a suspended account with Paypal. No problems. But I read the forum and the Paypal stories are pretty scary.

    When you consider that you can have a subscription service and have your entire income wiped out by Paypal cancelling all the subscriptions and refunding people money who didn't ask for refunds.

    Then going into your bank account and pulling out funds that you recently deposited from Paypal. It happens all the time.

    I know that Paypal is a company that has to minimize it's risk and I even know that some of these people are high risk dream sellers. My business is pretty much service based (building websites for people), but if you sell Internet Marketing products (ebooks), you may be more susceptible to Paypal limiting your account and holding all of your money.

    Are you going to just sit around and end up sh*t creek if and when it happens to you?

    Not me. I just signed up for a business account at AlertPay. It took all of 1/2 hour to set up the account, my credit card, verification, my bank account, etc. and even set up my subscription service.

    I can now change my links at a moment's notice and continue to do business. I can also switch my links and start selling my membership through AlertPay subscriptions rather than Paypal. I would keep the members that I already have in Paypal there, but new ones would be in AlertPay.

    But I didn't stop there.

    I also signed up for 2CO. Cost $49 application fee, but my business is worth $49. Waiting for approval after submitting all my info. If that goes through, I would then have 3 payment processors to use and could continue to operate my businesses even if Paypal shut me down.

    If you're in the higher risk (Make Money Online) business, I suggest you get off your butts and get yourself some alternatives. NOW. Don't wait for a disaster to happen.

    Tips for Paypal

    1. I have never withdrawn all my money on a regular basis. I always leave about 2/3 of my money in Paypal and use it for expenses. They have no reason to get nervous that chargebacks (which I rarely ever get) will occur without any funds to cover them.

    2. If you are in the high risk MMO niche, get two bank accounts. After you make a Paypal withdrawal and it hits your bank account, go take it out of that account and put it into the account that is not connected to Paypal. Simple. Then they cannot touch it.

    Hopefully this will provide a little motivation to get you moving to make yourself a backup plan.

    I did and I feel safer now.
    Great advice here

    Thanks for the suggestion. I heard about AlertPay just a week back but haven't check on them yet. Hopefully, I could have open an account with these 2 suggested sites as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
      Several years ago, I walked away from an $85/hr contract position with the military to run my ebay business.

      I was soon doing $500-1000 a day in business through my paypal account.

      I was having private label product manufactured in China, so I regularly had 30 days of inventory on hand, plus 30 days worth already in the pipeline.

      That meant I had tens of thousands of dollars at any one time tied up in my business.

      Then I ran into the dreaded pay pal problems.

      Long story short, it took so long to get things straightened out with them that my business went bankrupt, and I lost everything. My cars were repo'd, I had to pull my son out of all of his activities (hockey, soccer, etc), I had to move in with family, etc.

      I ended up with 60 days worth of inventory in a storage facility, and it eventually was auctioned off because I could not pay the rent for it.


      I hate paypal.



      Originally Posted by Chr View Post

      I feel that if your running a completely fair, moral, and ethical business, then you should have no trouble with Paypal.
      sorry - total BS.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by jasonl70 View Post

        Then I ran into the dreaded pay pal problems.

        Long story short, it took so long to get things straightened out with them that my business went bankrupt, and I lost everything. My cars were repo'd, I had to pull my son out of all of his activities (hockey, soccer, etc), I had to move in with family, etc.

        I ended up with 60 days worth of inventory in a storage facility, and it eventually was auctioned off because I could not pay the rent for it.

        I hate paypal.
        That's quite a story. They should not have had any problems with Ebay auctions selling physical products unless there was a high refund count.
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        • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          That's quite a story. They should not have had any problems with Ebay auctions selling physical products unless there was a high refund count.
          it's a very long story, but I only had 1 refund request ever ("the black is blacker than I expected").

          This request was was actually outside of my stated refund policy, but I honered it anyways - minus the initial shipping fees (as stated in my refund policy).

          He fought with paypal for the remaining $5 (from a $150 purchase), which somehow triggered my account being froze, which triggered my ebay account being froze, which triggered emails going to every customer in the past month or so being told my account was froze and how to get a refund in the event they'd had porblems with their transactions with me.

          I ended up with a flood of fraudulant refund requests for "item not received", and provided PP with my shipping receipts (most were to europe, so return receipts were not available), as well as pointed them to the positive feedback those same customers left.

          PP and ebay wanted me to send photos of me with the goods from each disputed sale - umm, how do you send a picture of yourself in front of inventory that's already sold?! To make matters worse, I could not get a single human being from paypal on the phone - NOT ONCE (evidently this has changed), and 9 out of 10 emails from them were just copy/paste

          In the end, it took several months to sort it all out, and by then I was ruined.

          edit: and it wasn't actually sorted out. I still lost several grand in bogus refunds, and was told I had to upgrade to merchant account (but I wasn't too keen on giving them my soc. sec.# after what I had just went through).
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  • Thanks for the good advice
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Brauer
    Wow! Absolutely awesome tips here.

    About half of my business hinges on Paypal, so I'll be sure to take the advice you give here!

    You could charge money for this info!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author mickd
    i dont like paypal , there conversion rates are robbery
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  • Profile picture of the author Keith Everett
    Great post Suzanne, very useful information.. One thing about Paypal a lot of people don't know is, is if you sell a subscription service and a client's card is coming near it's expiration date - Paypal just cancels the subscription without warning.

    I had this happen several times.

    Keith
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  • Profile picture of the author dame016
    Don't be afraid of Paypal when you know very well that you are not doing anything bad. I once had a limitation in Paypal, but my account was reinstated after a couple of days after I inquired why. They were very responsive, calling me for a couple of times an dbeing really sweet. So, don't be scared.
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  • Profile picture of the author ebizstore23
    nice tips, this is absolutely nice. paypal has its policies i think failure to adhere to one or two can land one into trouble.
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  • Profile picture of the author twelve22
    I used to work for eBay and PayPal. I assisted eBay and PayPal customers on the phone. I agree with ebizstore23... PayPal is not difficult to deal with if you understand their policies.... which I will admit, there are a lot of!
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  • Profile picture of the author netguy12
    I HATE paypal, they limited my account 2 times and once froze $4,800.00 for 6 months. I was sooooo freakin pissed, but now I have back ups.

    1. Authorize.net (Virtual terminal for call-ins with CC & checks), and it has BUY/PAY NOW buttons (excellent).
    2. ALERTPAY.
    3. paypal (but I will try to avoid this at all costs).
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  • Great post, thanks for the heads up!
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnWiz
      Great advice, it's always good to take a little time to protect our business before s*** hits the fan.
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  • Profile picture of the author chrislangley
    It's always a good idea to have a backup plan, as it becomes inevitable, the bigger a company gets, the more it tends to throw its weight around
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    • Profile picture of the author Eduard Ruppel
      Wow what a great thread!!! Very useful information here. I think that AlertPay is a good alternative? Any way need to call them as I have issues with the credit card of my wife as wel live here in China!!

      But still we all are reading this really horrible storys about PayPal and we are discussing here. But at the end of the day 90% of us is still using PayPal. Thats a fact.


      So if we want to change something we need start here first, adn just stop using PayPal.

      That's my 2 cents...
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  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    I think this is something that is every Internet Marketers worst nightmare! I have a solution put into place for htis and it's E-Junkie+Google Checkout. I recently did a broadcast and only offered this option to my subscribers and found that my sales were pretty much consistent. I maybe lost 1 or 2. Just goes to show that people will use options other than Paypal if they really want the product.

    Also, I believe if you are a Clickbank vendor you can still accept Paypal even if you don't have an account. I believe you can get paid from Clickbank via paper check or direct deposit.

    Although it would be a serious "bump in the road" if I lost my Paypal account, it certainly wouldn't stop me from doing business or losing too many sales.

    I have never had a problem with Paypal either, but that's not to say that it will never happen. Good thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rockrz
    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

    Then going into your bank account and pulling out funds that you recently deposited from Paypal. It happens all the time.
    That's easy...when money comes in to your bank account, login to your online banking and transfer it to another account.

    That way, if they did cut you off...at least they'd need a court order to get funds from your other accounts which they can't do without a trial...

    Anyway, WHY would Pay Pal just shut down someone's account...costing themselves money???

    Wouldn't someone have to be selling a scam or something?
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  • Profile picture of the author TechKing
    paypal is good processing system trying to make payment processing system more secure and clean. therefore they are adapting some sense-less algorthim..if you are right in your side ,then paypal never block you !!
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  • Profile picture of the author typoo999
    Never keep more than $500 in your Paypal account and then you are good.
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    Boom shakalaka!
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  • Profile picture of the author situ08
    I account was suspended by paypal. But I keep sending emails to paypal support and now my account has been restored.
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