An Affiliate Marketer's Challenges

50 replies
As an affiliate marketer, you all have heard strange things happen to affiliate marketers in the recent past.

All of a sudden some big time online marketer, expert author, coach, seminar leader and speaker launches a product and invites affiliate marketers to join his program and agrees to pay $1000 per sale. He launches and relaunches his program twice.

An affiliate makes 3 sales during the relaunch and is paid a $107 more than what he is due to be paid because of a mistake from the marketer's affiliate manager. This results in a negative balance.

He builds a list of more than 100,000 subscribers and shuts down the affiliate program after the second time. The affiliate / "probably" all affiliates is not informed about the program being shut down and is intimated about the same to his email query when the marketers JV manager is asked about the records in the affiliate ledger go missing in the infusionsoft area.

Here's the interesting and the most obnoxious part:

Now, there are upsells and downsells of his own product to the subscriber base he's built from all his affiliates. Now, his affiliate manager says "we don't pay on upsells" to affiliates even though the leads are building from the affiliate which has resulted in a few sales. The affiliate is informed that he had signed up for another launch / product launch which itself is a serious information gap of the affiliate manager / JV manager.

So, the question is: If an affiliate marketer has sent in leads and that has resulted in a few sales whether they are an upsell, downsell or a LIVE event, isn't the affiliate entitled to the sales & the resultant money when the stats clearly show the sales have been made by the affiliate?

Aren't affiliates due to be paid commissions for ALL customers and all of their purchases for the particular product they are promoting?

Is this FAIR? Let me know your 2c.
#affiliate #challenges #marketer
  • Profile picture of the author David Morris
    Banned
    In my opinion, yes, the affiliate should be paid for all upsells/OTOs sold through his marketing funnel. But the product creator should draw out his entire upsell listing plan to affiliates in his affiliates page to avoid future conflict..
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4458798].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
      After the product creator relaunched his program and paid me the sum accrued to me, they removed the ledger details showing the people who bought what and so on & so forth..

      The stats in the month April & May show that the sales were accrued but the ledger is gone for all 3 months - March, April, May 2011. Is this ridiculous?

      If I was paid an amount, I am entitled to see the stats. Telling me that the EA affiliate program is shut down means there is something fishy going on out there. Don't you think so? Isn't this ridiculous especially because you now have a 100,000 leads from your affiliates and still don't want to share the rewards with your affiliates in all honesty & diginity? would you ever work with such a marketer?
      Signature
      I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

      Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
      Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
      I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
      *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4458830].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Hess
    Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post


    So, the question is: If an affiliate marketer has sent in leads and that has resulted in a few sales whether they are an upsell, downsell or a LIVE event, isn't the affiliate entitled to the sales & the resultant money when the stats clearly show the sales have been made by the affiliate?

    Aren't affiliates due to be paid commissions for ALL customers and all of their purchases for the particular product they are promoting?

    Is this FAIR? Let me know your 2c.
    It's up to the vendor to decide whether to pay backend commissions. You aren't entitled to them unless the vendor states they pay throughout the entire funnel.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4458848].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
      Originally Posted by Mark Hess View Post

      It's up to the vendor to decide whether to pay backend commissions. You aren't entitled to them unless the vendor states they pay throughout the entire funnel.
      So how come Mark it shows up in the stats that the affiliate is building leads and thereby accruing sales?

      The thing is I see that 4 of the sales are of the original launch and the other sales seems to be upsells. Now, the marketer didn't notify his affiliates that he won't pay commissions on upsells even though the sales happened from the affiliate marketers marketing funnel. How can you not credit the affiliate for the sales that happened through his marketing funnel? Isn't that amazing?

      Since there is no notification, don't you think it must be taken as the marketer pays for all upsells and downsells unless he notifies in writing that he won't pay for upsells and downsells? Isn't that clear for transparency?

      Neither they discorded the traffic arriving from affiliate links to their squeeze page so is this a marketer's fault or is the affiliate responsible for this?

      Ronak.
      Signature
      I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

      Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
      Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
      I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
      *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4458874].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author visimedia
    In my opinion, if we as an affiliate promote a product, and the product has 1 upsell 1 downsell, if the owner has an agreement not to share the upsell n downsell earning, I think it's just about the agreement.

    You can look for some other 'wise and cool' product owner who shares upsell and downsell earning...

    Take it easy..
    Signature

    digital startup looking for partners in China, Taiwan, HK, Korea & Japan. PM me

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4458884].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Ronak,

      Is this FAIR?
      No, it's business.

      and agrees to pay $1000 per sale
      Perhaps they're loading the front end in order to keep the back end for themselves?

      Would you prefer $500 per sale with a chance of $500 on the back end?

      it's just about the agreement
      It's up to the vendor to decide whether to pay backend commissions. You aren't entitled to them unless the vendor states they pay throughout the entire funnel.
      I agree with those two quotes.

      Affiliates work for one off payments (generally), vendors use affiliates to build a business. If you feel that it's unfair, you know what to do about it, right?
      Signature


      Roger Davis

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4458898].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi Ronak,

        Perhaps they're loading the front end in order to keep the back end for themselves?

        Would you prefer $500 per sale with a chance of $500 on the back end?
        No. they aren't doing the front end and back end thing. Either.

        --

        No dude, every other affiliate program offers commissions on upsells and downsells. See the big guys, most of them pay for upsells and downsells.

        To be honest, most affiliates are here to make money whether it's from upsells, dowsells or live events. That's the truth. I don't care how you make money off me, if you make money off me you gotta pay me for it.. It's that simple.

        And heck, there was no 'agreement' on the JV sign up page of the affiliate program about up-sells and down-sells clearly mentioning everything.
        Signature
        I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

        Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
        Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
        I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
        *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4458920].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Ronak,

          No dude, every other affiliate program offers commissions on upsells and downsells. See the big guys, most of them pay for upsells and downsells.
          self contradiction

          if you make money off me you gotta pay me for it.. It's that simple
          So go and make them pay, no need to start a thread about it asking whether others think it's fair or not. But as you have already done so, you can see that the consensus is that you should find out the terms before promoting, rather than not doing so and then asking if it's fair afterwards. RTFM.
          Signature


          Roger Davis

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4458939].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
      Originally Posted by visimedia View Post

      In my opinion, if we as an affiliate promote a product, and the product has 1 upsell 1 downsell, if the owner has an agreement not to share the upsell n downsell earning, I think it's just about the agreement.

      You can look for some other 'wise and cool' product owner who shares upsell and downsell earning...

      Take it easy..
      Oh come on when it's your money you won't be taking it 'so easy' LOL It's $1500 man - a whole lot of money. And 'take it easy'.. have I gone bonkers that I will take it with a pinch of salt?

      What pisses me is that the marketer never informed affiliates about the upsells and downsells.. and when the sales turn up.. they say we don't pay on upsells! Whoaa~

      If it was a zero 0 more, it would had been $15000 & that would have been disastrous. don't you think so? get going..
      Signature
      I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

      Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
      Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
      I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
      *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4458900].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Hi Ronak,

        You're not entitled to backend commissions unless that was expressly part of the deal when you became an affiliate.

        Different vendors have different commission structures. Vendors paying 100% commissions (and perhaps vendors paying $1,000 commissions) on the initial sale, if any, are always likely to be being very generous with the affiliates over an initial sale for the specific list-building/funnel-filling purpose of retaining all the backend profits for themselves.

        Certainly you shouldn't assume that you're entitled to a cut of these.

        Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

        every other affiliate program offers commissions on upsells and downsells
        This is just plain incorrect; sorry. Actually very few of the products for which I'm an affiliate offer commissions on upsells and downsells.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4458943].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Hi Ronak,

          You're not entitled to backend commissions unless that was expressly part of the deal when you became an affiliate.

          Different vendors have different commission structures. Vendors paying 100% commissions (and perhaps vendors paying $1,000 commissions) on the initial sale, if any, are always likely to be being very generous with the affiliates over an initial sale for the specific list-building/funnel-filling purpose of retaining all the backend profits for themselves.

          Certainly you shouldn't assume that you're entitled to a cut of these.



          This is just plain incorrect; sorry. Actually very few of the products for which I'm an affiliate offer commissions on upsells and downsells.
          So Alexa, my question to you is "why is the affiliate program still building leads from affiliates which accrues sales?"

          If there is no agreement on the JV signup page does not mean the marketer/product-creator does not have to share the commissions accrued to the affiliate since the marketer/product-creator is ASSUMING that he won't be paying for backend commissions even when they show up.

          If they didn't want to pay for the same, then why do the stats show the sales and the leads? Isn't that a contradiction or Self contradiction | Define Self contradiction at Dictionary.com as exrat suggested?
          Signature
          I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

          Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
          Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
          I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
          *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4458998].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

            So Alexa, my question to you is "why is the affiliate program still building leads from affiliates which accrues sales?"
            No point in asking me this, Ronak. You'll have to ask them. Sorry.

            But please don't announce here that "every other affiliate program offers commissions on upsells and downsells", because this is wrong.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4459019].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              No point in asking me this, Ronak. You'll have to ask them. Sorry.

              But please don't announce here that "every other affiliate program offers commissions on upsells and downsells", because this is wrong.
              Oh c'mon, I work with the Big guys. Check out Ryan Diess's affiliate program, Jeff Johnson's affiliate program or Eben's for that matter. They all promise commissions on upsells and downsells. This is because they want to lure marketers in promoting their program BIG TIME. And it's a win-win situation.

              And if you're mistaken Alexa, I have seen a lot of marketers offering commissions on upsells and downsells every now and then because it makes them a WHOLE LOT OF MONEY. So, there are aplenty of marketers offering commissions on upsells and downsells in the IM niche. And since there was no agreement, it's not good to assume that the marketer is not entitled to pay for the sales accrued in whichever manner.

              What is MORE disgusting is to see that they could remove the affiliate ledger details in the infusionsoft panel for the months when I accrued sales and was paid for it.

              I have never been notified about the upsells and downsells so if it shows up in the infusionsoft area, that's not my fault. They must control their moves wisely. If they can't control their moves, that's not my fault but theirs. That is their problem.

              If I am building leads, it's because I want sales and sales means a lot of money from affiliates so why not pay them for what is due in gratification to them?

              There was no agreement during signup. PERIOD.
              Signature
              I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

              Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
              Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
              I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
              *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4459092].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi Ronak,

            why do the stats show the sales and the leads?
            Perhaps it's a feature of that particular affiliate software that they don't know how to disable?

            Perhaps they have other preferred affiliates who ARE being paid extra but you are in the 'B' team?

            As mentioned, personally I would just take it as the universe sending me a timely message that I was positioning myself at the wrong level of the business food chain and therefore the solution is to work on changing that as soon as possible.
            Signature


            Roger Davis

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4459029].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

              Hi Ronak,

              Perhaps it's a feature of that particular affiliate software that they don't know how to disable?

              Perhaps they have other preferred affiliates who ARE being paid extra but you are in the 'B' team?

              As mentioned, personally I would just take it as the universe sending me a timely message that I was positioning myself at the wrong level of the business food chain and therefore the solution is to work on changing that as soon as possible.
              If they can disable and shut down the affiliate program, why do they keep building leads from affiliates. They must shut the technicalities down completely and not accept the leads from the affiliates once they say they shut the program down. You must keep your word.

              If you speak something else and do something else, no one's goin' to trust you irrespective of whether you're a Tony Robbins, Eben Pagan or Brendon Burchard.
              Signature
              I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

              Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
              Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
              I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
              *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4459113].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                Hi Ronak,

                Oh c'mon, I work with the Big guys.
                hubris

                So why are you whingeing here and asking whether it's fair?
                Signature


                Roger Davis

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4459146].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
                  Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

                  Hi Ronak,



                  hubris

                  So why are you whingeing here and asking whether it's fair?
                  Because all the big guys pay commissions on upsells and downsells.
                  Signature
                  I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

                  Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
                  Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
                  I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
                  *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4459488].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                    Whether it's fair or not - whether anyone on this forum thinks it's fair or not - does not matter. Just because a handful of "big guys" offer certain terms does not make them universal.

                    Look on that JV page again. Is there a link to an affiliate agreement? If so, legally that agreement becomes part of the terms you accept in many cases. If not, then the agreement is exactly what is posted in the JV offer, regardless of any stats shown.

                    Either way, this is between you and the vendor.

                    Whining here, along with a dollar (plus tax) will get you a cup of coffee from the Mickey D value menu.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4459545].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                    Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

                    Because all the big guys pay commissions on upsells and downsells.
                    Then perhaps you would be better off sticking with them...
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4459550].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
                      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                      Then perhaps you would be better off sticking with them...
                      I wanted to know how to deal with something that I've never dealt with before. I also wanted affiliates to know what product creators / marketers are doing online to steal away their commissions.

                      I found out their terms and there is no agreement on upsells and downsells, just a little misquote about no commissions after the 'promotion period' which isn't defined well with clarity. You said it right ExRat.. Self contradiction | Define Self contradiction at Dictionary.com.

                      I'll give you back your bonus and say you're good enough to be true. Thanks John! I'm done enough. I won't put another posts just to curse them LOL

                      I'm better off with those who give more value for my leads right John!
                      Signature
                      I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

                      Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
                      Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
                      I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
                      *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4460256].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

        Oh come on when it's your money you won't be taking it 'so easy' LOL It's not YOUR money, either.

        What pisses me is that the marketer never informed affiliates about the upsells and downsells.. and when the sales turn up.. they say we don't pay on upsells! Whoaa~ He doesn't have to tell you. All he has to tell you is what he IS paying on. If you didn't see mention of backend items, the smart thing to do is assume that you won't be paid on those. Sounds like you assumed incorrectly, instead of asking before promoting (which is what you should have done).
        Consider it a lesson learned (hopefully). Get the facts before promoting next time and if something isn't spelled out in detail, then it's your responsibility to ask.
        Signature
        Discover how to have fabulous, engaging content with
        Fast & Easy Content Creation
        ***Especially if you don't have enough time, money, or just plain HATE writing***
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4461214].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
          Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

          Consider it a lesson learned (hopefully). Get the facts before promoting next time and if something isn't spelled out in detail, then it's your responsibility to ask.
          I am saying there is nothing written clearly about "upsells" and "downsells" in the affiliate agreement. And it's been said that the affiliate will be paid until the "promotion period". And they didn't stop leads from being accrued from their affiliates which means the promotion is still ON technically.

          Anyway if you've some brains why don't you get this simple maths? I worked for getting you leads as an affiliates and leads mean sales for every affiliate so if there are sales at the backend you're supposed to share profits with the affiliate - you can't be selfish and loot all the money - there has to be some amount of gratefulness in that approach. Gratitude or Acknowledgement!

          And if it's not my money it's not his money either. Two people are together for a joint venture, it's not a ONE man show so I won't promote his products and his brand but open the basket of glory for him. You didn't get this right Miss Golden? don't underestimate the power of GOD LOL ?
          Signature
          I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

          Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
          Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
          I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
          *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4461452].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

            I am saying there is nothing written clearly about "upsells" and "downsells" in the affiliate agreement. And it's been said that the affiliate will be paid until the "promotion period".

            There was an episode of "Law and Order" I watched one time that addresses this situation very directly.

            I don't know if they play "Law and Order" on TV where you live or not, but it is a "cop and lawyer" show that is popular here in the U.S. The cops go investigate the crime, then the lawyers step in to convict the criminals.

            In one episode, a fellow was working as a private nurse for an elderly rich man in New York City. He was there to wipe his ass and change his diaper, and to take care of all of the health issues of his employer.

            He had asked his employer several times to sign referral papers, so that the nurse could get his son into an "exclusive" private school.

            When the old man did not do what he wanted, he set up a very complex "revenge" scheme.

            He scared the old man into his "safe room", during a staged burglary. The old man died of a heart attack while in the "safe room".

            But the nurse also staged things to look like either the old man's son or the daughter had done it, so that they could get the inheritance.

            When the cops put all of the pieces together and arrested the nurse for manslaughter, the nurse kept yelling, "He owed me!!! That SOB owed me!!!"

            The reason for this long story is because when I opened this thread and read your comments, Detective Stabler's words to the nurse started repeating themselves in my head.

            The cop told the nurse, "He only owed you what he promised you, when you agreed to take the job... Nothing more and nothing less..."

            If the affiliate vendor did not mention upsells or downsells in the original agreement with you, then you are owed NO commissions on the sale of those products or services!!



            Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

            And they didn't stop leads from being accrued from their affiliates which means the promotion is still ON technically.

            Technically, that is your interpretation. If the affiliate vendor ended the "promotion" and you kept promoting, then that is your oversight and your bad.
            Signature
            Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
            Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4461818].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
              Originally Posted by tpw View Post

              There was an episode of "Law and Order" I watched one time that addresses this situation very directly.

              I don't know if they play "Law and Order" on TV where you live or not, but it is a "cop and lawyer" show that is popular here in the U.S. The cops go investigate the crime, then the lawyers step in to convict the criminals.

              In one episode, a fellow was working as a private nurse for an elderly rich man in New York City. He was there to wipe his ass and change his diaper, and to take care of all of the health issues of his employer.

              He had asked his employer several times to sign referral papers, so that the nurse could get his son into an "exclusive" private school.

              When the old man did not do what he wanted, he set up a very complex "revenge" scheme.

              He scared the old man into his "safe room", during a staged burglary. The old man died of a heart attack while in the "safe room".

              But the nurse also staged things to look like either the old man's son or the daughter had done it, so that they could get the inheritance.

              When the cops put all of the pieces together and arrested the nurse for manslaughter, the nurse kept yelling, "He owed me!!! That SOB owed me!!!"

              The reason for this long story is because when I opened this thread and read your comments, Detective Stabler's words to the nurse started repeating themselves in my head.

              The cop told the nurse, "He only owed you what he promised you, when you agreed to take the job... Nothing more and nothing less..."

              If the affiliate vendor did not mention upsells or downsells in the original agreement with you, then you are owed NO commissions on the sale of those products or services!!






              Technically, that is your interpretation. If the affiliate vendor ended the "promotion" and you kept promoting, then that is your oversight and your bad.
              We're not selling customers, we're selling products! Thanks but I think this is not a business I am into. I am not into assuming that the affiliate is not entitled to any commissions from up-sells or down-sells if there is not any "clearly written" agreement on the fact that if suddenly the vendor starts getting sales on his benchmark product because the affiliate built him leads after the "promotion" is over or the affiliate program is shut down. If you don't credit the affiliate with the sale, you're cheating him/her because we're not selling customers, we're selling products in terms of solutions that drive people crazy about things. However, your point is taken.
              Signature
              I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

              Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
              Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
              I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
              *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4462026].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Hess
    I think what happened is that you ASSUMED they were paying throughout the entire funnel.

    Since there was no agreement, on the JV signup page if they state 50% on the product then that's the commission paid on one product (the frontend product)

    It's frustrating, because each marketer tends to do things differently...
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4458941].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4460462].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
      Originally Posted by richgrad View Post

      are you refering to E*** P****'s affiliate program?
      I don't think he is...nor is this the place for starting to "Covertly" start talking about or bringing in other vendors...I'm sure there's a forum rules violation there somewhere :-)

      As Ex Rat pointed out...it could be and probably was a mistake by their affiliate tracking system...and as others have pointed out, not everyone pays on all upsells..

      Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

      The affiliate is informed that he had signed up for another launch / product launch which itself is a serious information gap of the affiliate manager / JV manager.
      Does not seem to be a gap, it seems that affiliates registered to promote XYZ, and then the vendor released ABC to their new list, which was outside of the XYZ, thus not warranting commissions.

      Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

      So, the question is: If an affiliate marketer has sent in leads and that has resulted in a few sales whether they are an upsell, downsell or a LIVE event, isn't the affiliate entitled to the sales & the resultant money when the stats clearly show the sales have been made by the affiliate?
      Not necessarily...and it depends on what was messaged. Not all vendors pay on upsells, and something that is released 30, 60 90 or even 6 months later cannot be deemed as an upsell

      Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

      Aren't affiliates due to be paid commissions for ALL customers and all of their purchases for the particular product they are promoting?
      Not necessarily.

      1) It depends if a"Lifetime Commissions/ Cookie" has been offered or if it's a limited cookie. For instance, Clickbank Products only offer a 60 day cookie. So if you're promoting a CB product and one of the leads you sent sits on the fence and decides to purchase on day 61...you are out of luck.

      2) A affiliate should get paid for ALL Buying customers that they refer for a "Particular" product. The "KEY" there is understanding that it's specific to a particular product...and does not always include upsells.

      In fact, there are a ton of vendors who offer 50% front end commissions, then a reduced 30% or 20% on upsells, especially if it's a time intensive upsell such as a mastermind or One on One coaching.

      ....that's not what happened here though. It sounds like they released a new product outside of the original product, post launch.

      Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

      Is this FAIR? Let me know your 2c.
      Here's my 2 cents

      1) To answer the question is it Fair? --> Yes. (you got paid for what you originally signed up to promote)

      2) Should have there been a bit more disclosure (a tracking mistake was made) -->Perhaps.

      3) Does it mean something "shady is going on"....not really, it could just mean that the affiliate program for that particular product is closed. Especially with infusionsoft.

      The deal here is, that you signed up to Promote the original product release, in which you were paid the appropriate commissions for.

      Some vendors include lifetime commissions, some don't, but nearly all of them don't pay commissions for all of the other products they may release in the future and market to that new list they just built.

      ....meaning that if I sign up to promote a Product today, drive all sorts of leads that convert and get paid..... I'm not necessarily going to get paid if the product creator releases a whole other product (Live event, coaching etc) outside of the original product.

      Example. Joe releases -Joes Hotcakes, how to make the best hot cakes in the world. Everyone promotes Joes hotcakes, drives leads and gets paid.

      Then 3 months later, Joe releases a new product that ties into his hotcakes...but none the less is a different product.

      lets say this product is "Coaching" on how to make the best hot cakes in the world. Joe never advertised this as an affiliate offer but wants to market this new offer to his new list (that affiliates help him built..which is the whole point) and makes sales.

      The affiliates who originally promoted Joes Hotcakes are not "entitled" to commissions for any of Joes other products....unless he offers it as an affiliate program. (Which is what you were basically told...you registered to promote one thing, and what "Commissions" showed in your account was for something completely different...which was a mistake)

      What happened here is that Infusionsoft is a very good platform, that tracks everything....it's almost too good. The vendor, who I'm pretty sure was not 100% familiar with the system did not realize that when they offered their New Product to the leads that were generated by affiliates from their original offer was going to track sales for their new "In House" offer.

      What should have happened is that the new offer be set up as a stand alone. (Similar to creating a new product via Clickbank)

      I'm sure this was a mistake...and mistakes happen.

      Does it suck...well, if you logged in and saw commissions due then yes....but it still does not entitle an affiliate to receive those commissions.

      It sounds as if the affiliate manager let you know that it was for a different promotion.

      In reality, there perhaps should have been a polite email sent, on behalf of the vendor, letting affiliates know that

      "Hey, we just ran a promotion to our internal list that was crediting sales when it should not have been....we apologize for this, we screwed up...but want to clear the air that those commissions will be eliminated from your ledger...we appreciate your support and Understanding...and will let you know when our next promo for affiliates is coming)"

      ...or something along those lines.

      It's not the best situation...but it does happen...and you just need to move on. :-)

      All the best
      Sean
      Signature
      New Product Launches, Affiliate Marketplace

      Need More Sales? More Affiliates? LaunchBoards.com
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4460480].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
        Originally Posted by Sean A McAlister View Post

        I don't think he is...nor is this the place for starting to "Covertly" start talking about or bringing in other vendors...I'm sure there's a forum rules violation there somewhere :-)

        As Ex Rat pointed out...it could be and probably was a mistake by their affiliate tracking system...and as others have pointed out, not everyone pays on all upsells..



        Does not seem to be a gap, it seems that affiliates registered to promote XYZ, and then the vendor released ABC to their new list, which was outside of the XYZ, thus not warranting commissions.



        Not necessarily...and it depends on what was messaged. Not all vendors pay on upsells, and something that is released 30, 60 90 or even 6 months later cannot be deemed as an upsell



        Not necessarily.

        1) It depends if a"Lifetime Commissions/ Cookie" has been offered or if it's a limited cookie. For instance, Clickbank Products only offer a 60 day cookie. So if you're promoting a CB product and one of the leads you sent sits on the fence and decides to purchase on day 61...you are out of luck.

        2) A affiliate should get paid for ALL Buying customers that they refer for a "Particular" product. The "KEY" there is understanding that it's specific to a particular product...and does not always include upsells.

        In fact, there are a ton of vendors who offer 50% front end commissions, then a reduced 30% or 20% on upsells, especially if it's a time intensive upsell such as a mastermind or One on One coaching.

        ....that's not what happened here though. It sounds like they released a new product outside of the original product, post launch.



        Here's my 2 cents

        1) To answer the question is it Fair? --> Yes. (you got paid for what you originally signed up to promote)

        2) Should have there been a bit more disclosure (a tracking mistake was made) -->Perhaps.

        3) Does it mean something "shady is going on"....not really, it could just mean that the affiliate program for that particular product is closed. Especially with infusionsoft.

        The deal here is, that you signed up to Promote the original product release, in which you were paid the appropriate commissions for.

        Some vendors include lifetime commissions, some don't, but nearly all of them don't pay commissions for all of the other products they may release in the future and market to that new list they just built.

        ....meaning that if I sign up to promote a Product today, drive all sorts of leads that convert and get paid..... I'm not necessarily going to get paid if the product creator releases a whole other product (Live event, coaching etc) outside of the original product.

        Example. Joe releases -Joes Hotcakes, how to make the best hot cakes in the world. Everyone promotes Joes hotcakes, drives leads and gets paid.

        Then 3 months later, Joe releases a new product that ties into his hotcakes...but none the less is a different product.

        lets say this product is "Coaching" on how to make the best hot cakes in the world. Joe never advertised this as an affiliate offer but wants to market this new offer to his new list (that affiliates help him built..which is the whole point) and makes sales.

        The affiliates who originally promoted Joes Hotcakes are not "entitled" to commissions for any of Joes other products....unless he offers it as an affiliate program. (Which is what you were basically told...you registered to promote one thing, and what "Commissions" showed in your account was for something completely different...which was a mistake)

        What happened here is that Infusionsoft is a very good platform, that tracks everything....it's almost too good. The vendor, who I'm pretty sure was not 100% familiar with the system did not realize that when they offered their New Product to the leads that were generated by affiliates from their original offer was going to track sales for their new "In House" offer.

        What should have happened is that the new offer be set up as a stand alone. (Similar to creating a new product via Clickbank)

        I'm sure this was a mistake...and mistakes happen.

        Does it suck...well, if you logged in and saw commissions due then yes....but it still does not entitle an affiliate to receive those commissions.

        It sounds as if the affiliate manager let you know that it was for a different promotion.

        In reality, there perhaps should have been a polite email sent, on behalf of the vendor, letting affiliates know that

        "Hey, we just ran a promotion to our internal list that was crediting sales when it should not have been....we apologize for this, we screwed up...but want to clear the air that those commissions will be eliminated from your ledger...we appreciate your support and Understanding...and will let you know when our next promo for affiliates is coming)"

        ...or something along those lines.

        It's not the best situation...but it does happen...and you just need to move on. :-)

        All the best
        Sean
        Sean,

        You know what? I was just waiting for your response to my thread & query.

        I was strongly thinking all about you since morning for you to respond.

        Sending a PM.

        I just hate when these guys call off these customers as their own once we've built their list. I need to be cautious of who I promote as an affiliate. This SUCKS.
        Signature
        I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

        Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
        Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
        I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
        *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4460714].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
          Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

          Sean,
          I just hate when these guys call off these customers as their own once we've built their list. I need to be cautious of who I promote as an affiliate. This SUCKS.
          I'm with ya... but...that's why they recruit affiliates, to build "Their own" lists...and once they built it....it is their list!

          ..this is the challenge for affiliate marketers who choose to promote these types of programs....and there's so much craziness going on in the market it's almost unreal!

          ...so much so that I'm moving (and have been) in a whole new direction myself...it's Time to move on and get back to the business of building businesses that make a difference, are ethically grounded and cultivate strong relationships built on trust....
          Signature
          New Product Launches, Affiliate Marketplace

          Need More Sales? More Affiliates? LaunchBoards.com
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4460915].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
            Originally Posted by Sean A McAlister View Post

            I'm with ya... but...that's why they recruit affiliates, to build "Their own" lists...and once they built it....it is their list!
            This is PLAIN & SIMPLE CHEATING!

            --

            Sean,

            I was thinking of taking your 2c ever since I thought of asking someone. The other person who came to my mind was Mike Merz.

            The thing is I originally got sales for the original product A that was launched back in November 2010 and again relaunched in March 2011.

            Now, they have a Elite program as well a upsell for a LIVE event of which I was unaware. I was building leads on auto-pilot from my blog of which they're aware of. And their affiliate terms of agreement declare that commissions won't be paid beyond the 'promotion period' neither they stopped the squeeze page from acquiring leads from affiliates which means that the promotion is still ON and running. As the leads kept increasing and they started promoting their product A along with the LIVE event to their new BIGGER list every single month after the launch period was over, they got sales of product A even if it was "in-house" which can't be said as "in-house" if you're using leads generated by affiliates. They should have declared everything including the promotions for which the affiliates won't receive commissions by updating the affiliate agreement from time to time or else created a standalone promotion for their product.

            If they are going to use my leads to sell their own original products such as product A & product B under the same brand, obviously this is infringement to my rights to receive commissions on sales I'm obvious to. If they promote a standalone product or they promote other marketers products as an affiliate does not mean that I am not entitled to sales that happen due to my efforts building their lead subscriber base. In this case, I would stop promoting his brand and use the platform to promote other better marketer's products.

            I've got infusionsoft screenshots. And they tell me "there were refunds" when there were none, "You signed up for Product B" when I had signed up for the "whole" brand of their products which come under 1 roof. And they say "we do not pay on upsells" when the affiliate agreement does not clearly state that there will be no commissions on upsells to clients built by "their" affiliates. All in all, they can decide what they wish to pay their affiliates but they can't betray an affiliate's trust by promoting their own brand of products to the same leads built by their own affiliates. That's not team spirit neither that is JV. That's cheating. Clear and all. Conspiracy. Not transparency.

            Remember the phrase, "those who profess good must do good" and such a BIG coaching expert goofs up when he's teaching online marketing and much more to a select group of people who pay $2000 to him for coaching and becoming an expert. RIDICULOUS.

            Either you're an expert or you're not an expert. You can't be both when you claim to be ONE.

            Honestly, people aren't doing business ethically, they're just doing it to make money because money means freedom to them. MEAN. Selfish.

            Either you're selfish or you're self-centered. Either you're universal or you're not. I just hate that man for what he shows he is but he isn't coz he's faking it for god's sake to the whole world. I'll reveal everything when the time is right.

            I guess it's you or Mike from which I got to know about this launch and I desperately want the money bcuz I made for it.

            Dude, buckle up your sleeve bcuz these people are going to eat you up with their notorious extremists policies that don't render any good for god's sake.

            Thanks but none.

            Ronak.
            Signature
            I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

            Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
            Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
            I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
            *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4460982].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
              Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

              This is PLAIN & SIMPLE CHEATING!

              Not really. A marketer would be dumb to not build a list. And if an affiliate isn't building a list BEFORE sending his traffic to the vendor, that's a mistake.

              See, here's the point...

              The list itself means absolutely nothing. So what if the vendor is building his own list? If you have YOUR own list, then don't worry about it. That's because the money is in the relationship you have with your list.

              Build a better relationship, and you'll make more money. Doesn't matter if one or two or ten other people have the EXACT same list as you. Treat your list like gold, and you'll be the one laughing all the way to the bank.

              And, btw, it's a good idea to start putting out your own products. Then you get to build the most valuable list of all -- the customer list.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4461055].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
                LOL

                Now you are a big time affiliate?

                When are you going to do something other than bitch and moan about things?
                Signature

                "As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"
                Coming Soon http://graphicsdon.com

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4461190].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
                  Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

                  LOL

                  Now you are a big time affiliate?

                  When are you going to do something other than bitch and moan about things?
                  Well when you're being cheated with $15000 you're most definitely going to bitch and moan about things that hurt you. Aren't you a human being?
                  Signature
                  I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

                  Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
                  Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
                  I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
                  *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4461359].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
                See, here's the point...

                The list itself means absolutely nothing. So what if the vendor is building his own list? If you have YOUR own list, then don't worry about it. That's because the money is in the relationship you have with your list.

                Build a better relationship, and you'll make more money. Doesn't matter if one or two or ten other people have the EXACT same list as you. Treat your list like gold, and you'll be the one laughing all the way to the bank.

                And, btw, it's a good idea to start putting out your own products. Then you get to build the most valuable list of all -- the customer list.
                I appreciate what you said above and will put forth sincerely in writing that I would do as you say so.

                Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

                Not really. A marketer would be dumb to not build a list. And if an affiliate isn't building a list BEFORE sending his traffic to the vendor, that's a mistake. Not neccessary. If you build a list at my expense you're obligated to give due respect for what I've given you. It's always a give and take relationship dear.
                Sorry, no disrespect but what you said is utter foolishness in all respect due to you.

                If I built a list for my own self, it has no difference to you whatsoever. That is my list built with blood and sweat. You cannot judge that. Either way irrespective of whether I have built a list of my own or not, it has no indifference to whether I build you a list or not. You cannot assume that a customer is your's as a marketer once an affiliate sends you a lead, as the customer is credited to the affiliate rightfully and legally so the affiliate must be credited with the sale and therefore the earnings accrued from the sale. It's called gratitude.

                I am not crying about not building a list. In fact, I am saying I build you more than 150 leads from 10,000 visitors+ and now you've accrued sales for my efforts. I make the efforts and ONLY you reap the rewards, is that business? FAIR? anyway?

                Man, money doesn't come for free. You've to work hard and smart for it day and night. I've worked for 4 years like CRAZY so I am understanding the value of money day by day. Obviously you don't realize what I want you to say.
                Signature
                I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

                Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
                Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
                I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
                *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4461220].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
                  Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

                  Obviously you don't realize what I want you to say.
                  And that's the problem with every thread I've ever seen you post. Why don't you start by putting what you want everyone to say in the OP? That way we'll all know what you want to hear so you don't get so stressed out and upset.
                  Signature
                  Discover how to have fabulous, engaging content with
                  Fast & Easy Content Creation
                  ***Especially if you don't have enough time, money, or just plain HATE writing***
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4461333].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
                    Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

                    And that's the problem with every thread I've ever seen you post. Why don't you start by putting what you want everyone to say in the OP? That way we'll all know what you want to hear so you don't get so stressed out and upset.
                    Seeing you miss lady queen I get upset. There is nothing more notorious than seeing you write things that don't make me laugh LOL
                    Signature
                    I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

                    Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
                    Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
                    I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
                    *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4461376].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
                      Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

                      Seeing you miss lady queen I get upset. There is nothing more notorious than seeing you write things that don't make me laugh LOL
                      Look you little #@#$E!# You don't go spewing your crap on ladies.

                      no one gives a tweet about your issue go to the people and complain to them no one here can do anything. now you are owed 15k? Yeah if that was me and they really did owe me and I really did have a case my attorney would be involved-not a forum.

                      -WD
                      Signature

                      "As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"
                      Coming Soon http://graphicsdon.com

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4461400].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
                        Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

                        Look you little #@#!# You don't go spewing your crap on ladies.

                        no one gives a tweet about your issue go to the people and complain to them no one here can do anything. now you are owed 15k? Yeah if that was me and they really did owe me and I really did have a case my attorney would be involved-not a forum.

                        -WD
                        As always you've great fighting spirit but not today some other time you know I've some work to do.. for everyone of us i.e. clean the dust that is messed around LOL
                        Signature
                        I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

                        Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
                        Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
                        I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
                        *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4461469].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
            Remember, you're given 3 chances before you clear the conspiracy and if you don't rectify your mistake as an expert you're not given a 4th chance. All I can do is complain to the FTC about the malpractice and shut his ugly mouth down for life. And he'll lose all his wealth for such a simple, stupid and BIG mistake that he's cheating his own men.

            Remember, "GOD KNOWS ALL".

            You must always do what you say else you're a complete freak, a loser, a shady person who does not believe in god, love & giving people what they really want when you preach it every moment on the web & paper professionally.
            Signature
            I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

            Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
            Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
            I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
            *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4461022].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
              Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

              Remember, you're given 3 chances before you clear the conspiracy and if you don't rectify your mistake as an expert you're not given a 4th chance. All I can do is complain to the FTC about the malpractice and shut his ugly mouth down for life. And he'll lose all his wealth for such a simple, stupid and BIG mistake that he's cheating his own men.
              .
              Good luck with that
              Signature

              "As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"
              Coming Soon http://graphicsdon.com

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4461204].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author murtuza
    I personally feel that a legitimate way to do a JV or affiliate marketing is to provide a commission to your affiliates or JV partners not only on front ends, upsells and downsells but the entire sales funnel you have setup.

    The reason is that I am personally building a sales funnel of 50 products and when I approached one of the top marketers discussing that I will be building an entire funnel of affiliate commission for them with a squeeze page he quickly agreed to do a JV.

    This is inspiring because very few are doing this ethically. And if you can combine this with a push button automation where with a push of a button you can create all the affiliate links in hundreds of emails for the JV partner and get his squeeze page, autoresponder and everything ready in minutes it's a literal dream come true for the affiliate and the JV partner.

    This is what many push button systems are coming up with nowadays and it's really cool. However I agree with Ronak that he should be given his stats accurately and mentioned everything clearly in the affiliate agreement. On the other side we should also checkout things deeply before getting involved in an affiliate program and see upto what level they will be paying us in the sales funnel...
    Signature

    Want to know my true story & how I got started with my internet business? What kind of problems I faced to get started & how I finally cracked the internet code? I have also prepared a 30 day blueprint for you to get started. No signup is required, just rush in to check out pure content ==> how to start an online business - And yeah, if you like what you read don't forget to 'like' & 'tweet' it. All the best :0)

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4460705].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
    I want to let forum know that this time it's not about me it's about the universe. It's about every other affiliate who puts in the effort but is not paid his due rightfully and gratefully with gratitude, respect, integrity & honesty!
    Signature
    I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

    Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
    Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
    I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
    *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4461613].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sanssecret
      I really don't know what your problem is. You seem to be complaining about the fact that you sent a load of people to a certain offer. They bought. You got paid a commission.

      Where is the problem?

      They bought other stuff from the product owner. Stuff for which you have not signed up as an affiliate. Therefore you are not entitled to a commission. The fact you sent them there in the first place doesn't mean squat. You already got paid for sending them. Why should you get paid again?

      I'm really sorry if I'm missing something here. But you seem to be complaining about an issue that isn't an issue except in your own mind.
      Signature
      San

      The man who views the world at fifty the same as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life. ~Muhammad Ali
      Pay me to play. :) Order a Custom Cover today.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4461851].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
        Originally Posted by sanssecret View Post

        I really don't know what your problem is. You seem to be complaining about the fact that you sent a load of people to a certain offer. They bought. You got paid a commission.

        Where is the problem?

        They bought other stuff from the product owner. Stuff for which you have not signed up as an affiliate. Therefore you are not entitled to a commission. The fact you sent them there in the first place doesn't mean squat. You already got paid for sending them. Why should you get paid again?

        I'm really sorry if I'm missing something here. But you seem to be complaining about an issue that isn't an issue except in your own mind.
        They bought stuff for which I signed up as an affiliate. Now they don't wish to part with commissions for that program because they now say they shut that affiliate program down and I still see sales accrued and credited to me in the affiliate ledger balance since the last 2 months which accrues to 4 figures. So, they're trying to cheat affiliates by building a list of customers by the hard work of their affiliates and then shut the affiliate program down so that they can enjoy all the benefits for a lifetime and keep launching new products again so to be making a new list - exciting isn't it? defrauding? demanding? devilish? all of that
        Signature
        I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

        Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
        Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
        I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
        *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4461984].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

          I found out their terms and there is no agreement on upsells and downsells, just a little misquote about no commissions after the 'promotion period' which isn't defined well with clarity. You said it right ExRat.. Self contradiction | Define Self contradiction at Dictionary.com.
          If upsells and downsells are omitted from the agreement, then they are not covered. What your interpretation says is "you didn't say you WOULDN'T pay me on those, so you have to pay me". Their interpretation says the opposite. You want a definitive answer? Ask a judge.

          Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

          I'm better off with those who give more value for my leads right John!
          It's just common sense that you put your efforts toward that which you believe offers the best reward.


          Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

          I am saying there is nothing written clearly about "upsells" and "downsells" in the affiliate agreement. And it's been said that the affiliate will be paid until the "promotion period". And they didn't stop leads from being accrued from their affiliates which means the promotion is still ON technically.
          That interpretation - that the promotion is still technically on since they haven't disabled the lead collection mechanism - is what keeps lawyers in fancy suits, big cars and country club memberships.

          I'm not going to say that the vendor isn't doing anything hinky. I'm also not going to say they are.

          Whether your motive was to whine and get people to tell you that you got screwed, or to warn people about some kind of perceived commission theft scheme, doesn't matter. This is one fight with a windmill you willnot win here.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4462079].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            If upsells and downsells are omitted from the agreement, then they are not covered. What your interpretation says is "you didn't say you WOULDN'T pay me on those, so you have to pay me". Their interpretation says the opposite. You want a definitive answer? Ask a judge.



            It's just common sense that you put your efforts toward that which you believe offers the best reward.




            That interpretation - that the promotion is still technically on since they haven't disabled the lead collection mechanism - is what keeps lawyers in fancy suits, big cars and country club memberships.

            I'm not going to say that the vendor isn't doing anything hinky. I'm also not going to say they are.

            Whether your motive was to whine and get people to tell you that you got screwed, or to warn people about some kind of perceived commission theft scheme, doesn't matter. This is one fight with a windmill you willnot win here.
            looks like I need a John McCabe to win me a fight.. are you all for it John?

            If I were a judge, I wouldn't have let an affiliate cheat a marketer lol j/k
            Signature
            I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

            Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
            Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
            I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
            *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4462116].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
              I suppose next you will expect that BTOM's give you a partial commission on links in the ebooks that you helped sell as an affiliate link.

              Sounds logical, right?

              I mean you did send them the lead. You should get a cut on what is made in the book too, right?
              Signature

              "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4462348].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
                Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                I suppose next you will expect that BTOM's give you a partial commission on links in the ebooks that you helped sell as an affiliate link.

                Sounds logical, right?

                I mean you did send them the lead. You should get a cut on what is made in the book too, right?
                Looks like you missed out on the whole point.. I said it's the vendor's main benchmark product that has been sold because of my affiliate marketing efforts to build a series of leads for the vendor. And now since he's build the list of leads by efforts of an affiliate, he says that he's shut the affiliate program down in May 2011 but after looking at the stats it shows that the vendor sold new fresh copies of his benchmark product to customers (leads) brought in by affiliates even after the affiliate program was shut down but not intimated to affiliates for which the affiliate has not been remunerated. This is cheating because affiliate marketers are not here to serve the vendor for free, nothing, nada, zero, zilch. It's for money, business, fame.

                So, if an affiliate program is shut down, naturally you know how to shut down the affiliate links technically which draw leads to your squeeze page because you're technically shutting down the affiliate program as well as if you're shutting down the business for good. I'm not a servant that I will build you leads for free and then you will make a whole lot of money out of it making a fool out of me for nothing.. that ain't ridiculously insane, isn't it?
                Signature
                I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

                Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
                Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
                I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
                *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4462412].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                  Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

                  So, if an affiliate program is shut down, naturally you know how to shut down the affiliate links technically which draw leads to your squeeze page because you're technically shutting down the affiliate program as well as if you're shutting down the business for good. I'm not a servant that I will build you leads for free and then you will make a whole lot of money out of it making a fool out of me for nothing.. that ain't ridiculously insane, isn't it?
                  Ronak, there's a flaw in your logic. Just because the vendor shuts down an affiliate program doesn't mean he has to delete squeeze pages for which he might have his own traffic sources.

                  Over the last 15+ years, I've had a few affiliate programs shut down on me. Every single one of them put the responsibility for changing links, etc. on me as the affiliate. That's one huge reason not to direct link to affiliate offers. Once your promos are 'in the wild', it's darn near impossible to change the links and stop or redirect the flow of leads.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4462426].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
                    Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                    Ronak, there's a flaw in your logic. Just because the vendor shuts down an affiliate program doesn't mean he has to delete squeeze pages for which he might have his own traffic sources.

                    Over the last 15+ years, I've had a few affiliate programs shut down on me. Every single one of them put the responsibility for changing links, etc. on me as the affiliate. That's one huge reason not to direct link to affiliate offers. Once your promos are 'in the wild', it's darn near impossible to change the links and stop or redirect the flow of leads.
                    Neither did they intimate about the affiliate program shutting down nor did they shut down the traffic coming from affiliates if they really have so much integrity within themselves.. I am not doing here anything for free Okay?

                    They informed about the shut down only when I asked them that I was not able to see the ledger details for the sales I did in their relaunch in March 2011. That was fallible on their part and that's not how affiliate marketers work with product creators.

                    If they shut the affiliate program down after making the heap of leads from a affiliate marketers hard work, this is forgery and a criminal offence. The sad part is I am not a US citizen. However, I can expose the whole forgery to the people I really need to without any indication of judgment but that won't be here in this forum. It will be elsewhere on the roadside. I won't be doing it. Someone else will - don't believe me.

                    Ronak.
                    Signature
                    I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

                    Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
                    Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
                    I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
                    *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4462472].message }}

Trending Topics