Are you scamming people? Are you being scammed?

Anonymous Affiliate

13 years ago

I just don't get the difference. Aren't all Internet Marketing products about making money online?

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4478006].message }}

Dan Freeman Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

I just don't get the difference. Aren't all Internet Marketing products about making money online?

I think he was referring to the comparison between online make money products as opposed to offline make money products..
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4478062].message }}
- NicholasGrey Banned 13 years ago
  
  [DELETED]
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4479106].message }}
  
  larkykid 13 years ago
  
  Although, they could be considered the same, I tend to think of MMO as a sub niche within the much larger niche of IM. Whereby MMO as the name suggests usually refers to products about teaching you how to make money online. Things like ebooks, video courses, coaching etc, and IM would also cover other things like software, tools and services to help you make money online from the things you learned from the MMO product. So say someone was pitching their article writing service - you wouldn't really say that was a MMO product, but a component within IM in order for you to carry out your marketing goals.
  
  After being at this for quite a while now, it's unrealistic to expect that you're going to make money from just the one product, hence why many might cry scam. In reality, it is going to take experience as well as a lot of skill to achieve the level of income some marketers are doing right now. Money can be made online but no one's going to hand you the keys to a fortune in a $37 ebook. I find that you need to continuously keep learning in order to develop the system that in the end is going to get you a full time income. This happens by learning from all the ebooks & courses you've bought, from all the forum posts you've read etc. No one product is going to be substantial enough for you in applying IM imo.
  
  There are a lot of questionable products out there being promoted all the time, but fortunately, you can pick up some really great ones as well, it's just these are much rarer unfortunately. But they are there, if you do the research beforehand. And of course, some people do take advantage of the fact that newbies will be more prone to fall for all the hype and again they will only realize after experience (and buying product after product) that there is no magic pills.
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4479494].message }}

Arock

13 years ago

I have bought a lot of internet marketing e-Books over the years and I have actually been happy with all of them. I have been able to disseminate the information to the point where I use what I need and leave the chaff behind. Obviously you should research before you buy.

I also don't see the difference between the two. We are naturally trying to make money online. Also, many people believe they were scammed by an information product because it didn't work for them. Perhaps they just entered a a market that was over saturated. **** berry? Really?

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4478094].message }}

WillR

13 years ago

Originally Posted by scarabet

Are MMO (IM) products scams? As far as I can see many monetary claims are dubious at best.

That's a HUGE generalization to make. There are scammers in every industry not just MMO. There are plenty of reputable products out there that you can easily make money from if you are willing to follow and take action. The problem is these types of products are renowned for attracting the lazy type of person expecting to make money sitting in his underpants at home working 1 minute a day. So naturally they are all 'scams'.

Actually, half the problem is the people who buy those products. First of all they create the market. People would not be selling these products unless there were people there ready to buy them. Second of all these people will immediately call something a scam simply because it's not as easy as pressing just one button.

If you are silly enough to believe those dubious claims then I don't see it as a scam - I just see you (proverbial you) as gullible.

Thanks

Signature

.

âž¨ Here's How to Make Your First $177 Online
This Week Using the Piggyback Method...

.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4478130].message }}

Rashell

13 years ago

Originally Posted by scarabet

Why are many "good" people fine selling IM products as MMO products when they hate offline Make Money products?

Are MMO (IM) products scams? As far as I can see many monetary claims are dubious at best.

Please let me know.

I don't have a tendency to buy MMO products per se. I'm more interested in

ideas on driving traffic,
improving conversions,
software that makes it easy for my customers to navigate through a sales funnel,
understanding the online opportunity, and
reading case studies of how others have put together their system.

Whether I make MMO or offline for that matter isn't based on the hype behind a product but my work ethic.

I've only felt "scammed" maybe 2-3 times. And typically that's because the sales letter was vague and the product didn't match up. After awhile I stopped buying products with overly vague sales letters.

Another time I was referred to a product that came highly recommended but... After awhile I learned that some of the fervent recommendations are made because there's commissions to be had.

But the worst was before I heard of the WF and paid an SEO company stupid amounts of money to do pert near nothing. They had a slick sales page, awesome customer service and a lame product. They did what they said they were going to do. But I didn't know enough about SEO to realize I shouldn't be paying as much as I did.

You live you learn.

Rashell

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4478159].message }}

scarabet

13 years ago

It seems for some people here, IM products = MMO products. For me it is quite different.

See for example
LINK REMOVED
headline:
"This Copy-and-paste, Hands-free, Quick-cash system will BANK you $3,000 in your first month! No knowledge or skills required! PERFECT for newbies and experts!"

For me the person is selling a Make Money Online product. There may be a Internet Marekting product behind but IT IS SOLD as a MMO with people expecting much more than learning some new IM techniques or tactics. The person is selling you some earning promises wether it is direct or indirect. Much different then "Buy my product and learn some cool new stuff that may develop your IM skills (and subsequently earnings.)"

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4478247].message }}

WillR 13 years ago

Originally Posted by scarabet

It seems for some people here, IM products = MMO products. For me it is quite different.

MMO is the type of product being sold. IM is the way in which that product is being sold.
- Thanks
Signature

.
âž¨ Here's How to Make Your First $177 Online
This Week Using the Piggyback Method...

.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4478907].message }}
imback 13 years ago

The reason why most Internet Marketing products FAIL is because these MMO products.

So say person A myself is trying to release a legitimate Internet Marketing training product to could in return make you money. They stand no chance because person B said they have a legitimate PROGRAM that generates them thousands, but really all you get out of it is a eBook.

I am am both sides of the fence

I love real IM products that teach you how to do IM or IM methods that generate traffic and leads.

I am partial on the products that are MMO. In my opinion it's all a "conspiracy" if you catch my flow...

CHAD
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480593].message }}

Tina Golden

13 years ago

Originally Posted by salikkhan

Yeah.. This scammed world is very annoying.. lots of mails with affiliate links really piss me off..

What does one have to do with the other? There's nothing wrong with affiliate marketing and if you don't like the emails, there's this nifty little link at the bottom....

It says "unsubscribe".

Thanks

Signature

Discover how to have fabulous, engaging content with
Fast & Easy Content Creation
***Especially if you don't have enough time, money, or just plain HATE writing***

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4479043].message }}

travlinguy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by scarabet

Most of us dislike "Make Money" products, we for sure don't like them in the offline world as we know they hurt the weaker of us (ie older people, people loosing jobs and housewifes feeling lonely at home). Who hasn't ever heard about a relative, a friend or a friend of a friend scammed with one of these "promising" products?

Yet we have much more sympathy for "Make Money Online" products. Cause let's see things how they are, many IM products are sold as MMO products with outrageous financial claims in the headlines.

So are you buying/selling IM or MMO products? Are we seeing in the forum MMO products disguised as IM products or IM products disguised as MMO products?

Why are many "good" people fine selling IM products as MMO products when they hate offline Make Money products?

Are MMO (IM) products scams? As far as I can see many monetary claims are dubious at best.

Please let me know.

Your premise is flawed. This is a marketing board. Much of what is discussed here is about making money. And regardless of what you may believe most courses are good. You've chosen to focus more on the ones that aren't. If you choose to believe everything is bad or a scam you won't be disappointed. Many courses make promises. That's true. And many of those promises are real. But they're only real if people do the work. Based on what you've written I believe you'd be better off with a job. That way you get a guarantee. That is: show up, get paid. Good luck.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4479211].message }}

Dash Evra

13 years ago

Originally Posted by travlinguy

Your premise is flawed. This is a marketing board. Much of what is discussed here is about making money. And regardless of what you may believe most courses are good. You've chosen to focus more on the ones that aren't. If you choose to believe everything is bad or a scam you won't be disappointed. Many courses make promises. That's true. And many of those promises are real. But they're only real if people do the work. Based on what you've written I believe you'd be better off with a job. That way you get a guarantee. That is: show up, get paid. Good luck.

I agree with you and all but it's really hard for beginners to get into the "have to do work" mentality when the sale pages promise $XXX daily within a few clicks...

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4479281].message }}

travlinguy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dash Evra

I agree with you and all but it's really hard for beginners to get into the "have to do work" mentality when the sale pages promise daily within a few clicks...

I guess it might be hard for some beginners to actually look at reality. But how many times does someone need to pay the "stupid tax" before they recognize bullsh*t for what it really is?

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4479436].message }}

theory expert

Banned 13 years ago

Do you think you will get an honest answer from someone who has a vested interest to protect their livelihood?

This is how they make their living in the IM profession. No way they are going to admit to scamming you for your money.

You're asking people who have branded themselves as experts.

:confused:

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4479517].message }}

scarabet

13 years ago

There are plenty of good marketing courses out there and at very decent prices. I however note that this industry drives on people's dream to become rich. If you have some critical sense and experience, you know that buidling a successful business requires a good plan, talent and dedication. Any other promise is pretty misleading and yet quite often used. This is what I discuss about, the whole segment of that industry that bank on the newbie and the dreamer. "Who is to blame?" you may argue. The buyer? The seller? Both? Should that be regulated from within? From outside (FTC, Google,...)? Not all?

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4479561].message }}

Dash Evra

13 years ago

Originally Posted by scarabet

This is what I discuss about, the whole segment of that industry that bank on the newbie and the dreamer. "Who is to blame?" you may argue. The buyer? The seller? Both? Should that be regulated from within? From outside (FTC, Google,...)? Not all?

Feeding on the buyers' dream is NOTHING NEW. Both professionals and amateurs have been doing it for as long as marketing came into existence. Considering how simple it is to put up a site, add some content and some links to receive payment for your product, regulating something like that would be quite a challenge.

The best thing to do would be for the authority (FTC or w/e) to warn everyone to do some background work before purchasing anything online.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4479873].message }}

Arock

13 years ago

Originally Posted by scarabet

There are plenty of good marketing courses out there and at very decent prices. I however note that this industry drives on people's dream to become rich. If you have some critical sense and experience, you know that buidling a successful business requires a good plan, talent and dedication. Any other promise is pretty misleading and yet quite often used. This is what I discuss about, the whole segment of that industry that bank on the newbie and the dreamer. "Who is to blame?" you may argue. The buyer? The seller? Both? Should that be regulated from within? From outside (FTC, Google,...)? Not all?

Hey Scarebet. Good thread. There are SO many business models online and offline that prey on people's wish to become rich.

I am going out on a bit of a limb here and say that most MBA programs are doing the same. Just a lot more subtly. Perhaps MBA programs should hire an ex-marine with an Australian accent standing in front of sports cars saying how much you are going to make as a Junior executive after graduation.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480330].message }}

Ram 13 years ago

I don't hate make money products, online or off. I love them. I learned my trade from the old mail-order guys - Melvin Powers, Russ Von Hoelscher, Joe Karbo, Jim Straw, Joe Cossman and a few others. And they all sold MM products.

Did most of the people who bought their products make money? Nope. Most who buy weight loss books never lose weight, either.

But some did. The ones who put in the effort.

It's the same online. There are some darn good courses on building a list, building a relationship and selling to that list. But how many follow those courses? They buy them and then don't follow through.

Are there scammers? Sure there are. But there are a lot of folks selling good info. It's not their fault if the customers are lazy.

As for selling dreams - you bet. Every day, every way. My job is to get people to buy what I'm selling. You paint a picture for them of a better life. You give them something to take away the current pain. Any good copywriter will find the wound, poor salt in it and then offer relief - a product that can show the way to a better life, an easier life, a happier life.

As long as your product does what it says, no problem there. But you cannot turn a duck into an eagle, no matter what you do. Your customer is responsible for his or her own success.

We are selling tickets. But they have to make the journey. And if they don't, it's their fault.
- [ 1 ] Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480442].message }}

PatrickP

13 years ago

Ok let's be honest about all this. If a person was really making 5K a week or $350 and hour or $400 a day on each of their 50 websites or whatever the headline of the day is, they would spend their time DOING THAT which they claim is making them money. As opposed to taking hours and hours to put together a program about how to make money which they sell to other people.

There actually is a program(or probably more than one) that tells you how to put together a program about making money which you do NOT go and use to make money, but which you actually then sell to some other sucker.

Then those people make up a program about making money which they sell to other people and so on.

It is like the stock trader who tells you he knows which stocks to buy. Oh REALLY? If they really did they would be off on an island collecting bags of money.

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480294].message }}

theory expert

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by PatrickP

It is like the stock trader who tells you he knows which stocks to buy. Oh REALLY? If they really did they would be off on an island collecting bags of money.

That sounds so appealing....

the reason why people get sucked into MMO and IM programs in the first place.

Exhale.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480322].message }}

Robert Puddy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by PatrickP

Ok let's be honest about all this. If a person was really making 5K a week or $350 and hour or $400 a day on each of their 50 websites or whatever the headline of the day is, they would spend their time DOING THAT which they claim is making them money. As opposed to taking hours and hours to put together a program about how to make money which they sell to other people.

There actually is a program(or probably more than one) that tells you how to put together a program about making money which you do NOT go and use to make money, but which you actually then sell to some other sucker.

Then those people make up a program about making money which they sell to other people and so on.

It is like the stock trader who tells you he knows which stocks to buy. Oh REALLY? If they really did they would be off on an island collecting bags of money.

This is such a crock of poo...

people who make money know that it doesnt matter how many others they tell or sell the method too, they will never have to worry about to much competition because most people will do nothing with it

And those that do, make first class jv partners

Selling the method can double your income with a do it once profit for ever product. And absolutly no chance of it diminishing your bread and butter income.

[ 3 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Testing and tracking is a great way to give yourself a pay raise & itâ€™s easier than ever with hitsconnect

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480465].message }}

PatrickP

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

This such a crock of poo...

people who make money know that it doesnt matter how many others they tell or sell the method too, they will never have to worry about to much competition because most people will do nothing with it

And those that do, are first class jv partners

Selling the method can double your income with a do it once profit for ever product. And absolutly no chance of it diminishing your bread and butter income.

sent via tap talk from his private island

lol

Just kidding

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480643].message }}

GeorgR.

13 years ago

There is nothing wrong *per se* selling someone a "system" which makes money. This is not the problem.

The problem is that those marketers sell "systems" which are in fact nothing new since MOST things in internet marketing are actually old, proven and basic stuff - those marketers just keep re-packing and re-hashing and use hyped up headlines to sell the same things over and over. Most of it you can learn on forums like this.

Basic concepts like outsourcing, traffic generating, website re-selling etc..etc.are re-hashed and then labelled as "push button money systems" etc...THIS is the problem i have with this.

Thanks

Signature

*** Affiliate Site Quick --> The Fastest & Easiest Way to Make Affiliate Sites!<--
-> VISIT www.1UP-SEO.com *** <- Internet Marketing, SEO Tips, Reviews & More!! ***
*** HIGH QUALITY CONTENT CREATION +++ Manual Article Spinning (Thread Here) ***
Content Creation, Blogging, Articles, Converting Sales Copy, Reviews, Ebooks, Rewrites

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480525].message }}

Rob Howard

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Kent

They will demand a 300-page book, well-structured, referenced and proof-read for $9.99.

Ah - I recall a book about marketing, sold in college, that was well structured, referenced and proof-read, for well over 100 dollars.

Also, I would like to point out that self publishing won't die. Do you honestly think that suddenly, people everywhere will wake up and go "Gee, the info in this product can be found at my local library/forum/whatever for FREE!"

And even so, will all those people WANT to dig through 10,000 forum posts, 100 books about marketing/business, just to find out a simple, well laid out system to start making money in business?

I mean, we're talking about MILLIONS of people. While sizeable, the warrior forum is a tiny, TINY place compared to the shear mass of people looking to make money online. And those people will continue to purchase - as well as continue to vote for idiot politicians who promise the moon and never deliver...

Your premise is based on the assumption that most people make rational decisions about things. However, as we all know, that isn't correct.

Rob

[ 2 ] Thanks
5 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480594].message }}

Ram 13 years ago

Anyone who thinks the market will dry up - or that there is something wrong with taking old material and giving it a shiny new cover - just go to your local bookstore and count diet books.

Hundreds. More will be out this week and next and next week ...

Most are nothing new, nothing revolutionary. But people buy them. They buy the dream. And you know what? Most of these diets work if you stick with them. But most people who buy those diets don't follow them.

Same with MM products.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480637].message }}

imback

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Kent

It's not. The gurus and other shady operators know full well that they are taking advantage of their customers irrationality. That's how they make their fortunes. From insidious tactics designed to take advantage of human emotions.

To some degree, all marketing is like this. But most IM now goes beyond the line that marks ethical from unethical. Most IM is about getting someone to buy something so that they feel remorse afterwards. Of course, a few will refund/chargeback but they know that it won't be many.

I agree 100% with this post!

CHAD

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480740].message }}

scarabet

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Kent

It's not. The gurus and other shady operators know full well that they are taking advantage of their customers irrationality. That's how they make their fortunes. From insidious tactics designed to take advantage of human emotions.

To some degree, all marketing is like this. But most IM now goes beyond the line that marks ethical from unethical. Most IM is about getting someone to buy something so that they feel remorse afterwards. Of course, a few will refund/chargeback but they know that it won't be many.

I indeed believe in social responsability. That your IM skills shall be used for a good cause and not leave people worse off. This can be done, it may require more work though and you may leave some easy money on the table. However isn't it worth it after all? Profiting, making a living effectively adding value and making people happy? This is possible, this is a choice in front of every IM professional.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480784].message }}

PatrickP

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Kent

It's not. The gurus and other shady operators know full well that they are taking advantage of their customers irrationality. That's how they make their fortunes. From insidious tactics designed to take advantage of human emotions.

To some degree, all marketing is like this. But most IM now goes beyond the line that marks ethical from unethical. Most IM is about getting someone to buy something so that they feel remorse afterwards. Of course, a few will refund/chargeback but they know that it won't be many.

Agreed.

Don't bother with the hater in this thread Chris it just steals your energy.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480805].message }}

Rob Howard 13 years ago

Originally Posted by PatrickP

Agreed.

Don't bother with the hater in this thread Chris it just steals your energy.

Ah yes, anyone who disagrees with an opinion is a hater.

Rob
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480845].message }}

Rob Howard

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Kent

It's not. The gurus and other shady operators know full well that they are taking advantage of their customers irrationality. That's how they make their fortunes. From insidious tactics designed to take advantage of human emotions.

Ah yes, the evil, mythical "Guru" who is out to rape, steal, and pillage anyone who weak-willed enough to lay down and take it...

Originally Posted by Chris Kent

To some degree, all marketing is like this.

If this is so, then why is it suddenly "ok" to take advantage of customers irrationality in another situation?

I mean - all businesses do is provide a solution a market is demanding. But, wouldn't it be safe to say that most of these solutions can be done for cheap/free, in any market?

In order to make money, you MUST go beyond your costs and actually charge something. Cell phones - for example - they have costs in infrastructure and hardware.

But really, all they are selling is the ability to communicate, correct?

And if that is so, then really, aren't they taking advantage of us consumers of their product by CHARGING so damn much?

I mean, I went over my minutes last month and it cost me 330 bucks (210 more than usual). I bet they made a fortune off of that - but really, I needed to talk to my family because of my move. Aren't they ripping me off, taking advantage of my emotional desire to communicate with my family?

Besides, I can communicate for free with facebook and email. I should just drop my phone, because, you know, they're EVIL with their desire to make money off of me.

Originally Posted by Chris Kent

But most IM now goes beyond the line that marks ethical from unethical. Most IM is about getting someone to buy something so that they feel remorse afterwards.

Really?

Really...

That has to be the most absurd thing I've ever heard of.

Yes, I imagine these damn dirty GURU's sitting in a black, smokey room, evilly chuckling about how they are going to make a rehashed product, sell these dumb suckers and then make them feel guilt and pain!

Originally Posted by GURU

Muhahahaha! My plan for making newbies feel remorse and guilt is ALMOST COMPLETE. Soon, thousands of people everywhere will give me money and I'll fail to deliver...not only will I fail to deliver, I will then poke and prod those noobs so that they have emotional breakdowns due to their buying decisions!

Muahahahah

I'm sorry Chris, you seem like a logical guy, but that last statement is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in a LONG time.

Rob

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480839].message }}

scarabet

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ccmusicman

Ah yes, the evil, mythical "Guru" who is out to rape, steal, and pillage anyone who weak-willed enough to lay down and take it...

If this is so, then why is it suddenly "ok" to take advantage of customers irrationality in another situation?

I mean - all businesses do is provide a solution a market is demanding. But, wouldn't it be safe to say that most of these solutions can be done for cheap/free, in any market?

In order to make money, you MUST go beyond your costs and actually charge something. Cell phones - for example - they have costs in infrastructure and hardware.

But really, all they are selling is the ability to communicate, correct?

And if that is so, then really, aren't they taking advantage of us consumers of their product by CHARGING so damn much?

I mean, I went over my minutes last month and it cost me 330 bucks (210 more than usual). I bet they made a fortune off of that - but really, I needed to talk to my family because of my move. Aren't they ripping me off, taking advantage of my emotional desire to communicate with my family?

Besides, I can communicate for free with facebook and email. I should just drop my phone, because, you know, they're EVIL with their desire to make money off of me.

Really?

Really...

That has to be the most absurd thing I've ever heard of.

Yes, I imagine these damn dirty GURU's sitting in a black, smokey room, evilly chuckling about how they are going to make a rehashed product, sell these dumb suckers and then make them feel guilt and pain!

I'm sorry Chris, you seem like a logical guy, but that last statement is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in a LONG time.

Rob

Several mobile carriers are indeed "raping" their customers (ie. roaming charges, charges for using more than your plan allowance, ...), we all know that. This doesn't make it right to scam people in return. Meanwhile there also some mobile carriers that customters like. It is possible to make money and please people at the same time.

Regarding the "gurus", I would bet some are indeed laughing at all the people they fooled and have very few respect for them.

I however notice that quite a few people are so used to see scams around that they find it pretty normal and are pretty much able to justify it.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4481005].message }}

Robert Puddy

13 years ago

has anybody noticed chris comments always reflect the messages in his sig file?

me thinks he protest too much (translated means more poo here)

[ 2 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Testing and tracking is a great way to give yourself a pay raise & itâ€™s easier than ever with hitsconnect

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480750].message }}

scarabet

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

has anybody noticed chris comments always reflect the messages in his sig file?

me thinks he protest too much (translated means more poo here)

It seems you feel threatened by this thread. Why is that? Is it related to the service you promote in your sig?

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480822].message }}

Robert Puddy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by scarabet

It seems you feel threatened by this thread. Why is that? Is it related to the service you promote in your sig?

i havent felt threatened since i left school, when do you graduate?

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Testing and tracking is a great way to give yourself a pay raise & itâ€™s easier than ever with hitsconnect

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480882].message }}

Rob Howard

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

i havent felt threatened since i left school, when do you graduate?

Robert, ignore the haters man, they steal your energy and...uh, yeah.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480893].message }}

Robert Puddy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ccmusicman

Robert, ignore the haters man, they steal your energy and...uh, yeah.

No No poking haters in the eye with a sharp stick is a fine blood sport... They get steadilly more and more stupid as the thread goes on, untill they finally flip and bring up hitler and the gestapo

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Testing and tracking is a great way to give yourself a pay raise & itâ€™s easier than ever with hitsconnect

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480912].message }}

Patrick Pretty

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

No No poking haters in the eye with a sharp stick is a fine blood sport... They get steadilly more and more stupid as the thread goes on, untill they finally flip and bring up hitler and the gestapo

At least you didn't advocate for a critic's death by shotgun blast this time, Robert.

Even so, the imagery of a "sharp stick" poked by an IMer in the eyes of the presumptive IM "haters" in the newly defined "blood sport" of IM is almost as vile, thuggish and reprehensible. It sends an awful message, even if the language is used in a figurative sense. Beyond that, it emits yet another crystal-clear signal that certain facets of IM have matured in the most wretched of ways.

A dark and frothy sea that cannot be contained is lashing the rocky and verbally barbaric IM island you're living on and exposing your insular ramblings in "defense" of the trade as the call of a clueless dinosaur, Robert.

All the caustic word pictures and insults and barbs you care to utter cannot hold off that sea.

Patrick

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4608114].message }}

scarabet 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

i havent felt threatened since i left school, when do you graduate?

Why school? Were you bullied there for some reason?
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4481043].message }}

Rob Howard

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Kent

On the other hand, if you offer something that doesn't deliver and was hyped up to start with and you know full well only 1% of your customers will experience the success that you promised then it is one of either a scam/fraud/deception - take your pick.

Yes, but Chris - who's fault is it that only 1% will experience success?

- Is it the product creator?

- Is it the consumer?

- Is it both?

I mean, if 1% really DOES experience success, wouldn't that imply that the product actually DID something for them? To me, that doesn't sound like a crappy product...

Hell, even if ONE person runs with it and makes money, then the product did what was intended, did it not?

You may say it's garbage. You may say it's overhyped. You may say that it's rehashed.

But one mans "rehash" may be brand new to someone else. And for those that have the gumption to go and get it, then good on them!

And I would like to point out that if the dream wasn't sold in the first place, I wouldn't own my own business today.

The dream was planted, and it was grown.

I would also like to say that anyone who lies to make a sale deserves prosecution, but that is a different conversation.

The biggest problem I have Chris is that you are making gross generalizations about our industry. Yes, there is crap.

But there is just as much crap inside the weight loss niche.

Or in the dating niche.

Or in...

Rob

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480938].message }}

Ram

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Kent

In my view, it is unethical to market something that you know will only have 1% or similar success rate and then just blame the customer.

That's the key - in your view it is unethical. But that doesn't make it unethical. It just means you think it is.

There has been talk in this thread about crossing the ethical line. Well, where is the line? Who drew it? And who died and made them king of ethical marketing land?

In my opinion, as long as my product does what I say it will do, then I am not one infinitesimal damn to blame if my customers don't do what the product says to do.

I don't claim my products will "do" anything. I do claim they will show YOU how to do something. And that you CAN get the payoff (money, weight loss, etc.) if YOU actually DO what is in the product. We tell them what to do. In videos we show them. Then it is up to them.

Do I know most won't make money, lose weight, etc? You bet. Am I troubled by that? Not at all. I know they could if they would, but they won't if they don't. Up to them.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4481161].message }}

scarabet

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ram

That's the key - in your view it is unethical. But that doesn't make it unethical. It just means you think it is.

There has been talk in this thread about crossing the ethical line. Well, where is the line? Who drew it? And who died and made them king of ethical marketing land?

In my opinion, as long as my product does what I say it will do, then I am not one infinitesimal damn to blame if my customers don't do what the product says to do.

I don't claim my products will "do" anything. I do claim they will show YOU how to do something. And that you CAN get the payoff (money, weight loss, etc.) if YOU actually DO what is in the product. We tell them what to do. In videos we show them. Then it is up to them.

Do I know most won't make money, lose weight, etc? You bet. Am I troubled by that? Not at all. I know they could if they would, but they won't if they don't. Up to them.

Everybody has an opinion indeed but at the end of the day the opinions of the FTC, Google, Facebook, Youtube, Paypal, ClickBank, Visa, MasterCard, ... will prevail and they don't seem to go in your direction.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4481242].message }}

Rob Howard

13 years ago

Originally Posted by scarabet

Everybody has an opinion indeed but at the end of the day the opinions of the FTC, Google, Facebook, Youtube, Paypal, ClickBank, Visa, MasterCard, ... will prevail and they don't seem to go in your direction.

Please inform me where they say products that only have a 1% success rate are scams.

Rob

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4481279].message }}

SteveJohnson 13 years ago

Originally Posted by ccmusicman

Please inform me where they say products that only have a 1% success rate are scams.

Rob

'They' have said it all through this thread. Haven't you been paying attention?

Many of the posts in this thread have the tenor of the whinings of a child who's been kicked out of the sandbox.

Here's my question to the two of you - you know who you are - if marketing on the internet and courses designed to teach people how to make money using the internet as a worldwide marketplace are so incredibly evil, then why are you here attempting to mentally poison everyone?

I'm sorry - but if I can teach you how to consistently make $5,000 or more every month, I'm not going to turn it into a hardcover book and sell it for $9.99 (as a certain blog posts suggests that I should). I know - KNOW FOR A CERTAINTY - that only one person out of a hundred that buys it will do anything with it. So, I'm terribly sorry Mr. One Person, I'm not going to offer you my unique knowledge because the other 99 dumbasses in your clique think I'm going to scam you.

If I have a small business that gives me an extra $1,000 a month, and PayPal lets me do that for a reasonable cost, then I'm damn sure not going to jump through the hoops to get set up with a merchant account that will cost me twice as much. But I suppose my small business is not a "real business" if I use PayPal (also from a certain set of moronic blog posts).

I think, instead of continuing on with the thoughts I'm having, I'm going to go outside and kick my dog.

Somebody call PETA and the SPCA.
- [ 3 ] Thanks
Signature

The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4481882].message }}

Inforcer

13 years ago

You don't need an answer to this. Your gut/instinct has led you to asking this. Trust your gut

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4480899].message }}

SteveJohnson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

I think, instead of continuing on with the thoughts I'm having, I'm going to go outside and kick my dog.

Somebody call PETA and the SPCA.

The turd dog bit me.

I shoulda never opened this thread.

Thanks

Signature

The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4481973].message }}

PatrickP

13 years ago

lol I never heard that phrase before.

What does it mean?

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4481991].message }}

Clyde

13 years ago

I think MMO products are cool as long as they outline specifically what they'll cover in the program.

Not just outrageous income claims.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Generate Unlimited Number of Micro Niche Keywords, Multi-threaded EMD Finder PLUS More!

50% OFF WSO.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4481999].message }}

larkykid 13 years ago

Quite a few that will specifically outline what they WONT cover
- Thanks
- 1 reply
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4482062].message }}
- Antonios 13 years ago
  
  :p:p:p
  
  Buyers should be wiser.
  
  When I see a sales pitch that seems interesting and what I need I write down all the promises that the sales letter, video presents:
  
  * In 30 minutes you will make money...
  
  * No internet experience....
  
  * No website needed...
  
  * Free...
  
  * No investment (this includes the product?) ...
  
  * Three clicks and you are making money...
  
  * Easy to use, even for newbies...
  
  * No this, no that, no where, no nothing...
  
  * Free Traffic...
  
  * Merlin at your side (the middle age sorcerer)...
  
  * 24/7 support....
  
  * Etc, etc,.....
  
  You don't deliver on any of that, I request a refund.
  
  Learned a lesson, didn't lose money, another fake guru on my list, and another unsubscribe click when I receive their junk emails.
  
  Who loses: the guru, the affiliate promoting the junk, ClickBank...
  
  And now I can send and report the website to the FTC and to CB with proofs of their missleading ad campaigns (this is illegal, too).
  
  If you have been scammed, and you will be scammed again, just send your experience to CB and to the FTC, and FCC too.
  
  And talk about it here, too.
  
  I have been scammed, rip offed, hacked, lied to, I even had a successful website destroyed by a hacker, etc, etc, etc,...
  
  It really hurts to have wasted hours, days, weeks, months trying to make something work, and to discover that all you got from the salesletter were lies, and even blackhat tools.
  
  Some times even giving the tool an opportunity far later then the refund date.
  
  I need to learn a lot about using online marketing tools effectively, and don't like to be taken advantage of this with all those dishonest marketers.
  
  If I am scammed, and I am part of the 95 percent of marketers that are struggling to succeed online, and I do work a system when I get it even if free, better if I spent money on it.
  
  So that 1% successful users I won't tolerate, salesletters indicate that newbies, unexperienced people will make money today, with me It will have to do it, because the FTC and all other Consumer affairs agencies will get reports on that offer.
  
  This is our only defense from these scammers...
  
  Just my opinion, you could have another one, that's your right...
  
  Sincerely,
  
  Antonios
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  Signature
  Want to build your list...but have no money, website or technical skills? Learn to build your list with ease and virtually at zero cost! Free report.
  Click the link below now to start today:
  http://cash4yes.com/build-your-list-with-ease/
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4602167].message }}
  
  Chris Sorrell 13 years ago
  
  Nonsensical products keep coming out because people keep on buying them. Selling junk every day can make anyone a nice chunk of change dontcha know? Just ask Mcdonalds and Coca Cola.
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4603114].message }}

Chr

13 years ago

Thanks for making this post. Last time I brought this up I got banned for a week (I should admit, I phrased my post stupidly which probably contributed to the ban). I do feel like most IM products are low quality and very often have dishonest claims, "I'll teach you how to easily make a six figure income with Google Adsense!" type stuff.

These products don't quite fit the traditional definition of scam. You do after all receive an actual product. However, the IM industry is over saturated with garbage low quality products that are sold with unreasonable claims.

-Chris

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

HostGator Hosting Coupons

Earn $250-$300 for each unused cell phone upgrade you have!

Confused about webhosting? Learn More! No BS!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4603162].message }}

Antonios 13 years ago

:rolleyes:

I have bought some of those "scam" products.

In reality, they do offer some useful information or software.

What is the definition of scam?

"Is it getting something else from what you were told you would receive?"

As I exposed on a earlier reply: the seller didn't deliver what he/she said we would receive.

The products "are not":

* Not User friendly, it could be complicated to use...

* Not for newbies, they don't have the know how to make it work...

* You don't earn anything the same day, it could take weeks or months before you earn anything...

* You don't setup the system in 30 minutes, it might take days or weeks...

* You don't get results with 3 clicks, it could take several clicks, or infinity clicks...

* Not for unexperienced marketers, if you don't have experience it might take you months to learn the in outs of the system...

* It is not autopilot, you have to go throw several tasks to make it work: It could be thought as autopilot if you have the cash to autosource tasks...

* No investment, you have to invest (buying the product is an investment, or a waste of money): cash is needed to get some things to work: specially traffic, most times the offer upsells, downsells, sidesells, upgrades, so that the system can work "better???????"...

Almost all of the products offer the magic that you don't need the above, but when you buy it, if you don't have the above the system, software, program, or tool won't work as promised.

That I consider a SCAM!

That is a missleading ad, and in our country that is illegal: in our jurisdiction you get a fine of $10,000.00 for each missleading ad you place.

And even with that there are merchants that keep placing them, imagine what happens online when the only thing you could get is to have your ad banned, and then you can place it somewhere else.

ClickBank new rules or guidelines could be of some help, but there will be many merchants that will keep it up.

ClickBank gave until August 31 for merchants to fix this.

Today is August 3, and I have reviewed some CB merchants offers and they are kept the same. No fixes.

Just my experience, yours could be different...

Sincerely,

Antonios
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature
Want to build your list...but have no money, website or technical skills? Learn to build your list with ease and virtually at zero cost! Free report.
Click the link below now to start today:
http://cash4yes.com/build-your-list-with-ease/
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4604044].message }}
- Antonios 13 years ago
  
  I meant that today it is September 3.
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  Want to build your list...but have no money, website or technical skills? Learn to build your list with ease and virtually at zero cost! Free report.
  Click the link below now to start today:
  http://cash4yes.com/build-your-list-with-ease/
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4604113].message }}

RatRaceWatch

13 years ago

The problem with online products are they can be a lot harder to judge if they are a scam. That's why many sellers can get away with under-delivering products, because a lot of people are new to them, don't keep it up, or have no way to truly verify the results.

Trust me I've been there... and it can be very frustrating when you order a service, to see nothing happened, yet your not sure how long your suppose to wait for results, and by the time u wait, you'll probably forget about it, whether or not it delivered.

Same goes for info products, you buy into the hype, thats why I am extra skeptical now a days where I put my money. I like products with trials because there's no risk, if it doesn't work, well then I'm out no money other than a little time.

Nothing will be sure for you until you try it yourself. When buying a product, it's going to be a little risk, even if the reviews seem good, it doesn't necessarily mean the product will work for you. Eventually you will weed out the good through the bad, it takes time, patience, and the courage to not go crazy in what can be a very confusing world :0

Thanks

Signature

At Manifest Income our mission is to Help You Build A Business That Matches Your Passion.

We offer: Free Business Plans, Web Design, Online Marketing Training, Mentorship, & Support!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4608257].message }}

bagpuss0001

13 years ago

Although to me, the definition of being scammed is paying for something that doesnt deliver on its sales promise, scamming can be down to an individuals perception.

For instance, if I sold you a reworded set of instructions on "Ace perfect make $6k in 6 hours" and charges $10 for it, but someone else had another set of instructions but in their words and gave it free if you opt in, some people may think mine is a scam because I am charging.

I have experienced this. Some people put a value on the content and pay no value to the work you put in to make it better than others.

Thanks

Signature

Making the dream real, one cat-nap at a time.
WSO- Scrape My File, Noobie!
www.BestWaysToMarket.com
www.E-Marketshare.com
www.Nintendo--3ds.com
www.PublishingEasy.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4608326].message }}

pbdollars

13 years ago

Make money online products all are not scams. There are only few that I have seen which good business ethics. As you mentioned the wider audience could not take it very well as most of it is bluff. Make money online is also treated differently because of network marketing does the same sales pitch. Most of people relate make money online with network marketing.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4608364].message }}

Are you scamming people? Are you being scammed?

Trending Topics

Been a while! Any of you Old Timers here?

How much does the rebranding affect CR ?

Are billboards still effective in driving customers?

Boat and Jet Ski Rentals...... Door Hangers Effective?

Clickbank low cost recurring