Exactly who are you calling a douchebag?

I have to agree with you here on this one Marty. I personally don't want to deal with anyone who is not mature enough to find words other than "douche bag" when describing someone. I think it says a whole lot about that person. The old saying "Treat others how you want to be treated" rings true here. I just feel like if they're saying about someone else, what about me?

They deserve one another!

I've seen a few marketers use this tactic.

The thing is I don't think they acually believe what their saying; it's just some kind of reverse hype marketing.

They're obviously targeting the people who have tried and, so far, failed to build an IM business. You know the ones who haven't taken responsibility for their own failure and decided to blame their misfortune on the successful 'gurus'.

The tactic probably gets sales and that's all they are concerned about really.

I agree with you anyone who can't just stick to what they are trying to sell or information they are giving you isn't worth anyone's time.

When you have to start calling names about other people it means you really don't believe in the product or service you are trying to sell.

Hey, I'm all for using humor, slang, trendy terms, etc. where they are appropriate. Calling people douchbags, or any other childish derogatory names has no place in business.

What the heck is wrong with people these days?

Really on a sales page he called others "douche-bags?" wow that is truly amazing I wouldn't touch that product with a ten foot pole

"Douchebag" or any other similar term is OK - in itself. (At least for me...)

It becomes an issue when - as described clearly by the OP, if you took the time to read it! - an IMer is using it in order to diminish the value of other IMers (competitors?) to position himself as the 'friend of the masses' who fights against the 'evil douchebags'.

That's just crappy marketing. If you don't respect your own fellow marketers... I suspect you don't respect your customers either.

I have to agree also. This person is either a) one of these "gurus" themselves or b) striving to become one. Either way, he's hurting his own self image by belittling other IMers.

Also I would think many of their would-be customers could be put off by it.

From a persuasion/copywriting point of view, this technique is
not to bash the gurus, but to capitalize on the general feelings
of people who have been disappointed thus far with products
they have already bought from 'gurus'.

Empathy. I understand your failure and it's not your fault, it's
the gurus fault.

This is not a judgment call but a simple explanation of the
technique.

-Ray Edwards

As a young boy (yes, I was young once) one of the first things I learned about selling for the newspaper I worked for, "Is Don't Knock The Other Newspapers. Stress the benefits of your own newspaper and you will get more subscribers".

And my route manager was right, I won almost ever subscription contest the newspaper ran for 2 years. In fact I won one of the best trips, I had ever been on as a kid, and a $25.00 savings bond in my 3rd contest. And it was because I didn't knock the competition and stressed the benefits of my own newspaper.

Unfortunately today in the IM world a trend has developed over the last 2 years or so, of "bash the gurus and I'm not like that". As soon as I see that on a sales page or hear it, I'm not about to check it out. I click away if I'm on the net are delete the e-Mail.

But it is a marketing technique that seems to work and appeals to those who think "Oh Man! This guy has the "gold egg secret". IMO all the "anti--guru" guy does is shoot himself in the foot for having a long term customer. You may get him the first time but the chances of keeping that client for the long term are nil next to none.

Ken Leatherman

The Old Geezer

Rich people admire other successful people; poor people resent them. If you view wealthy people as bad..., you can never be rich..." T.H.E.

You guys are failing to see this from "average Joe's" point of view... yes, you might think it's cheesy and stupid. But the "us against them" positioning works.

Same stuff goes on in other industries and I don't see any marketers, or even "average Joe's" whining about them (because from what THEY'VE (prospect) experienced, it's true) ... in the weight loss/bodybuilding/health industries, it's the evil corporate pill pushers who promise magic results for sitting on ye olde ass.

What makes you think it's any less effective for someone who's just getting into marketing or isn't hip to these direct response tactics?

Don't let personal judgements and feelings stop you from doing what has worked, is working, and what will work.

That said, as experienced marketers (or at least, those of us who know what's going on behind the message), it's plain and pure BS. I wish some of these guys could just put as much effort into creating a good product, instead of bash other crappy products to try and sell their own.

Ansar

Guru's are fake! Imers are real!

The warrior forum over the past year has had more Guru's than any other website I belong too. I am sure they stick around because of the amount of money they bring the WF. I miss the 08' 09' years when it wasn't so hard to understand a sales copy

CHAD

Some marketers like to put down others just to build their position. It's a negative form of marketing

It's just a marketing ploy designed to get readers
emotionally charged, even if on a subconscious level.

Emotionally charged readers are more likely to
respond.

Willie

You make some very sound points. It is never a constructive thing to slam another person or their products. In sales we learn that it is always best to compliment the competition. Say that they make great products but show them why yours is superior.

Bashing your competitors... goes against 100% Claude Hopkins 101...

But the way they're doing it is also "Negative Optism" which is David Garfinkel 101...

It's powerful stuff to connect with the prospect in an empathetic way like that.

They have a bonding moment as they connect with the same strong emotions about "scammers" and what not.

That said...

It's pretty funny how someone will promote a sales page that's bashing their own sales page.

What's even funnier is that the same copywriter who wrote the last sales page that the current sales page is bashing is the same copywriter who wrote the current sales page that's bashing the other one.

lol...

It's an entertainment industry.

I'm not saying what's right or wrong... I'm not going to bring my opinions in on this.

I'm just pointing out a few things that are happening.

I DO think this stuff is both powerful and funny.

I wouldn't ever do it, but it's funny to me and it's certainly powerful.

They should focus on the quality of their own product instead of bashing the competition!

That kind of stuff turns me off to a product real quick.

It seems as though they are saying "These guys are bad because they try to trick you into buying their products by showing you all this hype. I'm better than that." But they turn around and do the EXACT same thing in their video (or sales page)!! So it's bad if those guys do it, but if I do it in the guise of criticizing others for doing it, it's OK. HUH?

Oh yeah, I've also noticed that some of the new products that bash the last big launch are from the same people. Try and figure that one out.

I don't have a product to sell yet but I've already decided to be honest and positive with people. I agree 100% with Ken Leatherman's post. I believe in stressing the benefits of my product rather than bashing my competitors.

And if I ever try to pull any kind of crap, I expect you guys to call me out!

James

Hmmmm....

There's a vein of "blame the customer" running through this thread.

Look, I'm not going to weigh in on the merits or appropriateness of calling someone a douchebag on a sales page (although I do exactly that inside one of my products), but anyone who's operated in this space for more than 6 months knows (or should know) that there are some truly vile people involved in IM.

And some of them are at the top of the food chain.

Not all.

Not everyone.

But let's be real.

And blaming customers for being angry and upset about getting ripped of by these scammers is bull****.

Some people don't succeed because they aren't willing to do what it takes.

Others don't succeed because a bunch of scammy douchebags promise them the world and then deliver phony "systems" into their hands that have never worked and NEVER WILL.

As I do agree that bashing other so called gurus and calling them names may
illicit a negative mark from a readers point of view, it is on the attention it creates thaat makes it a bit "effective" if the term would suffice that is.

Being effective in a sense that it has caused attention, proof enough of this discussion. Advertising need not be always positive advertising and we have seen a number of products out there that trash each other out. . . Pepsi and Coke, Verizon and AT&T and so on and so forth. The question is that would it make for a good marketing strategy or would it be one marketing mistake? This being the case, well the results would definitely prove its worth.

Yeah it's funny too how all of these guys claim to NOT be gurus. Well...maybe THAT'S the problem!!! Maybe we need some REAL gurus to start teaching this stuff

They're all liars.

Hey, not all d-bags are created equal.......

RoD

"Guru" originated as a term for spiritual leader or teacher. In the west, it been used for just "Teacher or leader" usually of a technical field and not necessarily religious.

So I find it amusing to hear them say bad things about gurus. "I hate teachers, don't you? If so, buy my product and I'll be proud to be your teacher."

Then there is the love triangle. One guru uses an actress to show the fakery of other gurus with push button affiliate software and tells you that the guru who has a russian programmer is fake. Then the guru with the russian programmer complains about the one who wrote the program for another guru who didn't use it. Then the guru who wrote the program for the guru complains about the guru with the fake actress.

They each claim to have the only working version of what must be the same software for affiliate marketing.

I know it is all marketing. As Densel Washington says in one of his movies: "Don't Bull sh.. the bull sh..er! By now most people in this niche know how the game is played and it is ridiculous what some marketers are trying to pull on the rest of us.

I have come to the conclusion that all these newfound twists to making instant money will be fun to test AFTER one's business is operating well enough to support the time and money to test it. Otherwise, it is better to stick to the tried and true basics that have always worked and still work today to build a genuine income.

Everyone who teaches someone how to make money is a 'guru'. Some are considerate and caring, others are bad and douchebags. It is up to you to choose which one you want to be and not worry about what someone calls you.

I just thought of an important point. What kind of attitude do people have that run to the product sellers who are using "bash the other guy" advertisiing?

It is VERY NEGATIVE!

The read all that negative crap, believe all that negative crap and become that negative crap. And negative crap ain't gonna make it in this business no matter what they buy!

They are part of the infamous "95%"

I don't know about the word "douchebag" - I got a great little (oxymoron?) chuckle out of that word when I watched the movie "Kickass" last night.

What turns me off is the word "guru". Unless you're talking about The Beatles in their Revolver/Maharishi days or your man out of Gang Starr, or even Guru Josh from the Madchester 90's rave era, I don't even want to know.

Maybe he didn't watch the presentation before promoting?