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Will MLM ever work? CAN it ever work?

by The 13th Warrior
42 replies
Looking at it from a successful, profitable companies perspective.

Let's take MicroSoft or Google, billions in profit every year, never ending stream of hungry customers and future customers wanting their product, sales and profit are assured.

Notice that these companies offer affiliate type associations with people who would wish to make money with them whether it is in the form of employment, wholesaler, distribution, apps creator/open source, advertisements, and just outright affiliate of their products.

Like any business, even a monopoly, they would always welcome some level of affiliation in a Joint Venture in one of the previous mentioned forms to help them SELL more of their product to get in in MORE hands.

Simple equation. More people selling, more people buying, more profit.

So why would companies like these, even need to pay one of any type of affiliate to get OTHER affiliates , and then compensate that affiliate based on the amount of affiliates recruited and their performance?

EVERYBODY wants the product, EVERYBODY wants the opportunity to make money off the product, so the success of the company in and of itself IS the affiliate/salesman recruiting machine tool .

So really, there's no need for a MLM type "affiliates recruiting affiliates" program, because such a successful company has too many customers AND people to distribute , wholesale, retail, ship, sell , advertise their product, probably more than they could ever want or handle.

Since the basis of any LEGITIMATE MLM to work is have products that are top quality and good enough on their own, that people would want to buy WITHOUT the recruitment program, if it is growing and is successful , why would any company have a "salesman recruiting salesman" opportunity to lure people in when they are already doing so well?

Leads me to believe there can never truly be a legitimate MLM that could ever work , in theory or execution...,ESPECIALLY if the ONLY profit worth pursing and/or having is the "affiliates recruiting affiliates" model.

The 13th Warrior
#mlm #work
  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    I think you have a basic misunderstanding of the business model. There are more than a few 'legitimate' MLM or network-marketing based companies that are very successful.

    The common thread among all of them, which you seem to be misunderstanding when you talk about "even need to pay one of any type of affiliate to get OTHER affiliates", is that these companies pay on volume - sales. If you can generate the sales volume for the company, you're rewarded.

    You could generate that volume by hiring employees who "sell for you", and pay them a commission. Think real estate broker, or insurance broker.

    Or you could have the parent company take care of that end by paying the commissions to whomever you "recruit", and who will reward you for the extra volume you've created for them.
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    • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
      Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post


      The common thread among all of them, which you seem to be misunderstanding when you talk about "even need to pay one of any type of affiliate to get OTHER affiliates", is that these companies pay on volume - sales. If you can generate the sales volume for the company, you're rewarded.

      You could generate that volume by hiring employees who "sell for you", and pay them a commission. Think real estate broker, or insurance broker.

      Or you could have the parent company take care of that end by paying the commissions to whomever you "recruit", and who will reward you for the extra volume you've created for them.



      You may be correct of my misunderstanding, but in order to sell in volume to make the kind of money either claimed or inferred, a bulk of that is YOUR recruitment of "sales affiliates" and making a percentage of their volume on so many levels.

      Otherwise, if you just sold the products on their own, a lot of these "legit" MLM companies, as you call them, profit margins are so LOW on the majority of their products , you really HAVE to be a SUPER AFFILIATE to sell enough to make a profit worth talking about, and that's IF a customer bought through you and the MLM company will CONTINUALLY credit your account with residual sales from that customer for the life of that customer.

      The 13th Warrior
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      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
        Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior View Post

        You may be correct of my misunderstanding, but in order to sell in volume to make the kind of money either claimed or inferred, a bulk of that is YOUR recruitment of "sales affiliates" and making a percentage of their volume on so many levels.

        Otherwise, if you just sold the products on their own, a lot of these "legit" MLM companies, as you call them, profit margins are so LOW on the majority of their products , you really HAVE to be a SUPER AFFILIATE to sell enough to make a profit worth talking about, and that's IF a customer bought through you and the MLM company will CONTINUALLY credit your account with residual sales from that customer for the life of that customer.

        The 13th Warrior
        But that's exactly what happens. SUPER networkers build large organizations that power a huge volume of product sales for the company. They're paid for that talent, for that ability to drive volume.

        You might want to sit down with someone involved with one of the reputable networking companies - MarketAmerica, Melaleuca, DrinkACT, MaryKay, whatever - and really study the compensation programs. It could clear up some misconceptions you may have.

        EDIT:
        Well, scratch the above. I think you do have a good grasp of how these programs work:
        [...]
        but in order to sell in volume to make the kind of money either claimed or inferred, a bulk of that is YOUR recruitment of "sales affiliates" and making a percentage of their volume on so many levels.
        I guess the question now is why you think that is somehow bad...
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff Burritt
      Banned
      I've been doing MLM on and off for 15 years. Sure it's not for everybody, but it's worked out for me.
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      • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post


        But don't make assumptions about me agreeing with the pro-MLM crowd. The only thing I'm agreeing with is that your questions were loaded, and NOT that I think MLM is a viable business model.
        I still disagree that it is "loaded", and disagree on some of your opinions about my intentions, though I must apologize for my inarticulate expression of what I was getting at, so I guess you cannot be totally at fault, I share the blame in that.

        For sure, there are many aspects to be explored.

        I agree with some of what you just posted, but some of your evidence in the form of "data" is in my opinion, circumstantial, because numbers and stats can look good but does not necessarily corresponds to reality, like surveys, for example, the stat numbers "say" one think, yet, something else is happening.

        You say "data" and "proof", but it is up to the individual/company to determine its interpretation and prove its functionality, and the worth of that function to actually implement it.

        It is a known fact , that in radio stations, years and years of surveys were solicited and the same result comes back, the data "say" people want more music and more variety.

        Yet, anyone who did just that, their ratings dropped, but the stations that played the same 3 songs every hour, they went up.

        So they concluded that you advertise " more music and more variety " BUT give them the same 3 songs played every hour and it worked.

        I did'nt think I had to spell out every nuance but here is some of where I was attempting to go :

        1) If there is a solid, model working that is clear, why are companies/marketers not rushing in droves or semi-droves to either implement it . join in at the opportunity or use the model like other forms of marketing?

        2) What is the catcher that prevents marketers/companies from simply jumping on board as they would Amazon, Clickbank, Facebook, Google Adsense and other forms of distribution and expansion?

        3) What will it take to make a MLM system extremely appealing to marketers/companies?

        4) If the data says MLM done right works and is worth it, especially with the various companies claimed to be involved, surely a decent percentage of Internet Marketers would get in on some of that action..., "decent number" is up to the readers interpretation.

        Here small sample of discussions about MLM, some of these folks even got PhD and M.D behind their names like some of you guys like, so you can't accuse them as not being "knowledgeable", so out goes that argument. By these articles, it is NOT necessarily settled :

        http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html

        http://www.mlmwatch.org/

        http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guides/Primer.htm

        http://cageyconsumer.com/mlminfo.html

        There are other questions......., by the way, I know MLM is a system, not a company, I ain't that smart but I ain't comatose neither.

        But you brought up some good stuff in that post, and is probably the first analytical response since this thread was made, so thanks a lot.


        The 13th Warrior
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  • Profile picture of the author AceOfShirts
    (Looks like Steve and I were answering at the same time)

    It all depends in how you look at it.

    Microsoft probably isn't the best example to give since they have an enormous advertising budget. MS doesn't need an MLM, they are already very successful.

    I always kind of thought of the MLM payouts as part of the advertising expense. You could spend a million dollars on a Super Bowl ad that might not generate a single sale or you can spend a million dollars in MLM commissions only after a sale has been made.

    This obviously isn't a blanket statement. I completely agree with you that the product needs to stand on it's own and not be overpriced to be able to pay all of the upline commissions. If the company and people really only make money on the sign up costs and sign up bonuses then it isn't legitimate, like you said.

    The last time you bought a Microsoft product did you drive over to Washington and buy it from their corporate headquarters? Or, did you buy it from a local store that bought it from a distributor that bought it from a wholesaler that both made a profit at their level. Every business has levels unless you are buying it directly from the manufacturer at their doorstep.

    If everyone at every level is buying their MLM product directly from the company then the company probably can afford to pay the upline commissions that they would normally be paying to wholesalers and distributors anyway.

    Basically, it's all just commission sales. Any company that charges an outrageous fee to get started and requires monthly minimum purchases (autoship) is questionable.

    Just my 2 cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
    Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior View Post

    ..why would any company have a "salesman recruiting salesman" opportunity to lure people in when they are already doing so well?
    When a company can pass off a major portion of their advertising 'expenses' by having others do it for them it can make sense from an accounting perspective. Add the 'social proof' that is implied by a recruiter and theoretically you should get more bang for your buck than using standard 'interruption marketing'.

    ~Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
      Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post


      When a company can pass off a major portion of their advertising 'expenses' by having others do it for them it can make sense from an accounting perspective. Add the 'social proof' that is implied by a recruiter and theoretically you should get more bang for your buck than using standard 'interruption marketing'.

      ~Bill

      Not disagreeing with that.

      But if the "main" product AND allure of the company is for you to recruit salesman and that is where the bulk of your profits come from, they simply need to make that clear and realistic.

      Imagine if most Internet Marketing products ,WSO'S , Amazon, GoogleAds, Adsense or any products thats hook is to make money..., and in order to make that money, you MUST go after other salesman to be successful, well, there would be a lot less sales if that were made clear and upfront.

      The 13th Warrior
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      • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
        Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post


        I guess the question now is why you think that is somehow bad..

        I'm am not saying this is bad, just the way it is presented and percieved.


        The 13th Warrior
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      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
        Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior View Post

        Not disagreeing with that.

        But if the "main" product AND allure of the company is for you to recruit salesman and that is where the bulk of your profits come from, they simply need to make that clear and realistic.

        Imagine if most Internet Marketing products ,WSO'S , Amazon, GoogleAds, Adsense or any products thats hook is to make money..., and in order to make that money, you MUST go after other salesman to be successful, well, there would be a lot less sales if that were made clear and upfront.

        The 13th Warrior
        But they DO make that clear - that's the draw for many people. I'm a little confused as to what point you're trying to make. Most people join MLM-based businesses because they 1) like the products, 2) have the opportunity to make a little extra money on the side, or 3) have the opportunity to potentially make a LOT of money. They know that going in.
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        • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
          Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post


          But they DO make that clear - that's the draw for many people. I'm a little confused as to what point you're trying to make. Most people join MLM-based businesses because they 1) like the products, 2) have the opportunity to make a little extra money on the side, or 3) have the opportunity to potentially make a LOT of money. They know that going in.

          I disagree, they do not make that clear.

          Most of these projections are done by theory or some super star who others can't possibly duplicate, even in a small way.

          Like the theory of compound interest, 1 penny doubling everyday, sounds good and looks good mathematically, but who has ever LITERALLY and practically done that?

          One of these examples STRONGLY infer it is both practical and literally in the real world, while the other infers it as a theoretical model that has some applications in the real world.

          If it is such an opportunity, ESPECIALLY with the residual income factor, why the majority of marketers NEVER mention such an opportunity?

          Why with all the internet marketing products I have bought with their many levels of upsales, free bonuses and other enticements that I can't even remember anyone mentioning MLM?

          Why is hardly, no, BARELY, anyone has even whispered or mentioned here as a WSO, thread of interest with a good percentage requesting more information and/or more tools to validate the merits of any company and/or its opportunity?

          Ok, maybe in the PIP forum.

          Let's say, right now, you have a WSO, as an example, as a product , and on its own can make someone profit if they put it into action.

          But supposed if the profit that WSO can make to anyone who uses it is so paltry by ANYONES standards. along with the time and investment it would take to make it work.

          What if 75% or more of your WSO's profit potential is if the purchaser can get OTHERS to sell it, and in addition, you won't see ANY significant profit until your affiliates affiliate affiliates not only joined , and STAYED a member , in addition to recruiting more salesman, BUT also their volume has to be a certain number for any meaningful profit?

          So your article marketing, seo, blogs, youtube and other things was to recruit people to sell so you can make money...., ok, there's a place for that, clickbank and others, but the product in and of itself to make the purchaser profit by implementing it, the numbers say it is not worth it unless he/she was a super DUPER affiliate marketer, though it may be legitimate.

          Not very appealing to me, and I am sure, to most others.

          The 13th Warrior
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior View Post

        But if the "main" product AND allure of the company is for you to recruit salesman and that is where the bulk of your profits come from, they simply need to make that clear and realistic.
        If the pitch included "Most of the sales made by this company are sales made to people who want to get other people to promote the company's products and services, and most of the sales you will make will be so your downline has products to demonstrate." do you think that would be a good inclusion? I'm betting not.

        Yet that's true for many MLM companies. Not all, but some.

        In many cases the allure of MLM is a 'business in a box' and if the parent company can show decent sales most people will never ask for a breakdown of where those sales come from.

        From a hooked lip standpoint it's much more desirable to leave all that out instead of having them make it "clear and realistic".

        ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author Ram
    Problem with mlm is that you are always dependent on others for your longterm income - the company, your downline. Yes, I know there are those with large followings who make a lot of money and some move from company to company and make a lot of money by taking their flock with them. But it's hard work for someone to build from scratch. People join and do nothing. Drop out after a month. Companies go belly up. The people I know who do well in mlm work their butts off. Even after they make that supposedly residual income,.

    Hard for me to see any reason to put so much work - and it is a lot of work - in building something that could very well go poof tomorrow. Build your own business and it's more likely to stay afloat. Sure, anything can happen. But with your own business, your own products at least you have some measure of control.
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  • Profile picture of the author glennorton1
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    • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
      I used to go to few of these MLM opportunity meetings at peoples house or rented venue.

      The dishonesty, to me, whether known or not, is that what the Super Distributors did to make that big profit is duplicatable by anyone who follows the marketing guidelines and scripts, not so.

      Most of these "Super Distributor" people have either trained, corporate experience or natural salesmanship, personalities, public speaking, showmanship, charisma and so forth, but Joe Regular or Jane SoccerMom is not going to be able to do what they do.

      Thats another reason for bad retention rates.

      Thats why people flock to Internet Marketing, because although they might not be able to bring in the profit a Super Star Affiliate marketer can, there is so much room for joe/jane average to realistically get a piece of that success without having all those personal salesmanship celebrity qualities AND its usually enough success to either significantly supplement their income and/or total surpass and replace it.

      They simply work hard, be themselves.

      That can't be said for MLM, the majority whose even had a little taste, DO NOT want to go back, especially the way MLM is set up.

      Again, I think the crux of the MLM is salesman hiring salesman, which is unnecessary if you have a company that sales are simply growing, it AUTOMATICALLY attracts distributors, marketers, retail, wholesalers, etc.,the crux of a growing company is the demand for the product, not the demand to find salesman.

      The 13th Warrior
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior View Post

    Looking at it from a successful, profitable companies perspective.
    Here's the problem with MLM.

    Up here, there is the parent company.

    Next, there is the top-level affiliate.

    Then a mid-level affiliate.

    And then a bottom level affiliate.

    Each of these levels needs to be paid.

    And in order to entice people into marketing the product, they get paid a substantial percentage.

    Which means the products are necessarily overpriced.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Here's the problem with MLM.

      Up here, there is the parent company.

      Next, there is the top-level affiliate.

      Then a mid-level affiliate.

      And then a bottom level affiliate.

      Each of these levels needs to be paid.

      And in order to entice people into marketing the product, they get paid a substantial percentage.

      Which means the products are necessarily overpriced.
      Much like the avergae product launch in internet marketing...

      BTW, I happen to represent a company that sells a product
      that is in great demand yet is priced substantially lower than its
      non-MLM competition... kinda blows that whole theory.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        BTW, I happen to represent a company...
        I am talking about an entire industry. The existence of outliers does not change the fact that the "Alaskan Miracle Berry" is a damn blueberry, and the "incredible Asian blend" is green tea and blueberry juice, and that one MLM company's retail price of $17.95 for a pint bottle of this only makes sense if you don't know pretty much the same blend is in the juice aisle at your grocery store for $3.99 a half-gallon.

        Right across from the very same MLM company's own product at $8.99 for a four-pack of pint bottles. Still over twice the cost of the non-MLM alternative, but good luck selling that crap at eight times the price on the street when anyone can get it at Safeway.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          I am talking about an entire industry. The existence of outliers does not change the fact that the "Alaskan Miracle Berry" is a damn blueberry, and the "incredible Asian blend" is green tea and blueberry juice, and that one MLM company's retail price of $17.95 for a pint bottle of this only makes sense if you don't know pretty much the same blend is in the juice aisle at your grocery store for $3.99 a half-gallon.

          Right across from the very same MLM company's own product at $8.99 for a four-pack of pint bottles. Still over twice the cost of the non-MLM alternative, but good luck selling that crap at eight times the price on the street when anyone can get it at Safeway.
          And yet any number of MLM companies continue to
          sell enormous volumes of what I call jungle juice every
          month...
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    The OP asks two pointless questions in his/her subject line...

    MLM does, and has been, working for a very long time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      The OP asks two pointless questions in his/her subject line...

      MLM does, and has been, working for a very long time.
      Well, T, you know me..."Mr. Anti-MLM".



      Anyway, while I do NOT think the questions posed by the subject line are pointless, my very first thought was that they were loaded. So, in that regard, we're on the same page.

      All the best,
      Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        Well, T, you know me..."Mr. Anti-MLM".


        All the best,
        Michael
        "If you knew what I know... you'd be doing what I do!"

        Tsnyder
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        • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
          Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

          "If you knew what I know... you'd be doing what I do!"
          If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

          If you're saying your place in the pyramid is easily replicated by anyone just now entering into the fold then alluding to folks doing what you're doing would pass.

          But if they needed to rewind the clock a few years to get to your level than your post is just as pointless as you say the OP's is.

          No disrepect intended, btw.

          ~Bill
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          • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
            Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

            If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

            If you're saying your place in the pyramid is easily replicated by anyone just now entering into the fold then alluding to folks doing what you're doing would pass.

            But if they needed to rewind the clock a few years to get to your level than your post is just as pointless as you say the OP's is.

            No disrepect intended, btw.

            ~Bill
            Relax, Bill... it was a little joke for Michael...
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  • Profile picture of the author aridz
    If you mentioned MLM, may be it is similar of multi-tiers affiliate.. I joined an affiliate programme , GDI about 2 years already.. and still enjoying the income.. this is how I get my first USD1k.. it is in 8 months..

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    • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post


      The OP asks two pointless questions in his/her subject line...

      MLM does, and has been, working for a very long time.
      Pointless?

      Thats quite an insular statement that lacks empathy for the average person.

      Just because you are successful and made it work, does not mean that it is for everyone, even by reasonable standards.

      Sure , not everything is for everyone, but even more so as it relates to MLM, the way its designed and profit on product sells alone.

      Sure, there are people successful making over 6 and 7 figures selling zippers, SO WHAT, does that mean its for everyone?

      Does that mean it is a business that should be looked at for the average person? Of course not.


      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post


      Much like the avergae product launch in internet marketing...

      BTW, I happen to represent a company that sells a product
      that is in great demand yet is priced substantially lower than its
      non-MLM competition... kinda blows that whole theory.
      First, if you found a MLM company that does that, you found one in a million, believe you me.

      Second, "priced substantially lower than non-MLM" is a matter to be determined by each individual and is your opinion only, I've seen such claims before, have to check the "fine print".

      Third, with all the Super Affiliates out there, MLM or not, if that company has a product priced so low that an affiliate selling it had a profit margin worth it and price competitively, especially against the brick and mortar businesses, Internet Marketers would be ALL over that, it would not be a secret for long.

      I guess you being so successful and all, is like climbing the Empire State Building, if someone put a gun to your head when you reached half way up and told you to describe the people at the ground, one probably could'nt even see the people on the ground , much less describe them....,such a sad state of change when people climb out the barrel, they want to burn the barrel , despite those who still occupy it and cannot get out.

      The TRUE wealth of a person is to extend kindness to a stranger who could not possibly be no use to him at all.

      Perhaps you were so talented at the ground level, you sincerely could not relate to the common person of average talent, thats where talent can be simultaneously a blessing and a curse.

      Great success to you, sincerely, but economic arrogance is not helpful if one claims to be of help and assistance.

      The 13th Warrior
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior View Post

        Pointless?

        Thats quite an insular statement that lacks empathy for the average person.
        Nonsense.

        You asked two simple questions. The answers to those questions
        have been settled for a very long time. I said nothing about my
        personal experience. Although I have been quite successful with
        MLM you read that into my response.
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        • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
          Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post


          The answers to those questions
          have been settled for a very long time.
          Settled? By who?

          And to what conclusion?

          If the current actions of potential marketers and companies that desire either recruitment or even consider being open to it, show that it has little to no traction in this direction of desire or consideration, then you are right, it has been settled, not to the favor of MLM.

          The 13th Warrior
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          • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
            Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior View Post

            Settled? By who?
            By the market. There are several MLM companies doing multiple
            BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in sales every year. The top selling brand
            of vitamin supplements ON THE PLANET is sold via an MLM company.
            The top selling brand of cosmetics ON THE PLANET is sold via an
            MLM company.

            The model has been around for many decades with many
            companies enjoying long term success... as well as many
            individuals who have achieved their dreams through MLM.

            So... does MLM work? CAN it ever work? DUH!

            You're kind of a time waster... you argue a subject you obviously
            know very little about... as if you know something.
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            • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
              Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post


              You're kind of a time waster... you argue a subject you obviously
              know very little about... as if you know something.
              You obviously have not read or care about any points I've made , no since in repeating them, you are locked and biased in your opinion.

              It was not necessarily an argument or judgement, only an open invitation to clarify as to why MLM is not adopted by the vast majority of most companies or why, if it HAS been fixed, there are few takers, whether they be marketers or vendors.

              You determining the presentation to be an argument only serves to show your hostile frame of mind.

              I'll wait for YOUR or anybody's next WSO , upsell , downsell, email, snail mail, YouTube video, T.V./Cable/Satellite commercial or any MLM in any funnel, don't hold your breath.

              There's BILLIONS in porn, is that for viable for companies in terms of advertisment, is it reasonable to present that to someone because it produces income for SOMEone?

              You presented no scientific arguments, no alluring reason of logic of why it is not as popularly viable as your cheerleading , company script and patent , cookie cutter answers would indicate.

              If this sample is your example of marketing , and marketing MLM, wow, your skills must be niche specific.

              Your final and locked judgement of what I don't know and gauging what I know only further illustrates your character and excessive pride, in addition to your ever exposed condenscencional nature.

              Sir, I or anyone else don't have to comprehend the biomechanical and molecular process of deteriorating matter (trash ) to know

              1) its not good for.

              2) no matter what anyone says, we don't want to eat it, and you can't pay us to eat it.


              Rather than present compelling , appealing analysis to the masses and to potential companies that should consider the viability of MLM and why they are missing out on a good size profit potential, you drone out the "mlm line" of shallow explanations everyone , including Aunt Harriet, have seen in MLM brochures.

              So I guess if potential prospects, be they marketer or vendor does not buy your pitch, you resort to character implications of the entity in question, good Modus Operandi.

              Only shows you to be the time waster.

              The 13th Warrior
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior View Post

        Second, "priced substantially lower than non-MLM" is a matter to be determined by each individual and is your opinion only, I've seen such claims before, have to check the "fine print".
        No... it's a question of simple math.

        We sell a product for about a buck that is routinely sold
        by competitors in retail outlets for $3 to $5.

        By any objective or subjective standard $1 is substantially
        lower than $3 or $5 for items of comparable quality.

        No fine print involved.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

          No... it's a question of simple math.

          We sell a product for about a buck that is routinely sold
          by competitors in retail outlets for $3 to $5.

          By any objective or subjective standard $1 is substantially
          lower than $3 or $5 for items of comparable quality.

          No fine print involved.
          I have looked into the program you're involved with, and while I still see a few problems with the model (but that's just me), I have to say that if I EVER did MLM again, this would be on a VERY short list of the ones I would consider.

          Is it perfect? Nope, but nothing is.

          Is it decent for an MLM company? Seems like it.

          In fact, based on my limited knowledge of it, it doesn't fit my personal definition of a traditional MLM, and that's a good thing.

          The interesting thing is that you and I consistently see things differently in these MLM threads, BUT that's because "your" MLM appears to be so much different from "my" MLMs.

          Regardless of my feeling on the issue, I did find the OP to be asking loaded questions with predetermined answers.

          All the best,
          Michael
          Signature

          "Ich bin en fuego!"
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          • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
            Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

            I have looked into the program you're involved with, and while I still see a few problems with the model (but that's just me), I have to say that if I EVER did MLM again, this would be on a VERY short list of the ones I would consider.

            Is it perfect? Nope, but nothing is.

            Is it decent for an MLM company? Seems like it.

            In fact, based on my limited knowledge of it, it doesn't fit my personal definition of a traditional MLM, and that's a good thing.

            The interesting thing is that you and I consistently see things differently in these MLM threads, BUT that's because "your" MLM appears to be so much different from "my" MLMs.

            Regardless of my feeling on the issue, I did find the OP to be asking loaded questions with predetermined answers.

            All the best,
            Michael
            I think you're 100% right about everything you wrote, there.

            Tsnyder
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            If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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        • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
          Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post


          No... it's a question of simple math.

          We sell a product for about a buck that is routinely sold
          by competitors in retail outlets for $3 to $5.

          By any objective or subjective standard $1 is substantially
          lower than $3 or $5 for items of comparable quality.

          No fine print involved.

          You may be right or wrong, but that profit margin ALONG with the conditions, such as minimum volume per month, etc., remain to be investigated and validated to each marketers approval or disapproval.

          There's ALWAY'S conditions, terms of service..., "fine print" involved.

          The 13th Warrior
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior View Post

        Third, with all the Super Affiliates out there, MLM or not, if that company has a product priced so low that an affiliate selling it had a profit margin worth it and price competitively, especially against the brick and mortar businesses, Internet Marketers would be ALL over that, it would not be a secret for long.
        Who said it's a secret? A couple very well known "super affiliates"
        who are members of this forum represent the same company.
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        If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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  • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
    I prefer Direct Sales over the broken MLM Model. Also selling Top Tier Products in the $2,000 to $20,000 price range online is better than selling pills, potions and energy drinks.
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  • Profile picture of the author jamesjohn09
    really love this type of discussion because i know many thing unknown thing regarding MLM in this discussion.
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    • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post


      Anyway, while I do NOT think the questions posed by the subject line are pointless, my very first thought was that they were loaded. So, in that regard, we're on the same

      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post


      Regardless of my feeling on the issue, I did find the OP to be asking loaded questions with predetermined answers.



      Loaded?

      I think your perception for the reason of this thread is loaded.

      I think I presented reasonable questions and comparisons as to why MLM model fails and is not appealing to most, or if it is viable , why anyone has not, is unwilling or cannot fix its inherent weaknesses.

      Why do companies sign up for affiliates to sell their products in COMMISSION JUNCTION and other like types but not so with MLM , whose been around along time?

      Thats another case in point as to why the majority of customers and vendors stay away and/or don't approach it or even attempt to adopt or create a "workable" model.

      Internet Marketers produce products and put them on CLICKBANK and other venues, they DO NOT set their products up for MLM, if it was such an appealing an profitable model, there would be much more people tailoring some of their products to plug into that model.

      Is MLM gaining ground?

      Are more companies joining the fray, setting up MLM structures to take part in this as a viable positive for their company?

      ANYBODY'S company, anyone?

      How many WSO'S or even junk mail have you received lately attempting to entice you into MLM?

      If it is so viable, let the MLM'ers put up a FREE WSO as a precursor to their MLM recruitment efforts, with useful, actionable information to get potential marketers involved in the funnel.

      That won't be happening anytime soon or in the future, the proof is in the action.

      Even scammers and spammers don't even offer it, even they would rather offer viagra or enlargement products to MLM, and they sell anything, even their mother.

      I simply attempted to get a little more clarity as to either why SHOULD IT work or NOT work, because if it MLM was viable, companies don't often turn their nose up of viable extra income and marketing options and opportunites to expand their growth.

      The saturation point of MLM has been discussed before, I thought I brought a slight different analysis as to why MLM can or cannot work,whether its already been brought up or not, right or wrong, I don't know.

      It was also to invite additional opinions of specifics of things that were glaring in the MLM model as to why anyone who would consider such a model would address and simply fix it, or if it could EVER be fixed and how.

      Or why is MLM consistently including the "pyramid" factor or the viability of any pyramid factor to making the theory applicable.

      I think YOU and others of that similar opinion of this thread being "loaded" already had your minds made up before you even entered this thread.

      The 13th Warrior
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior View Post

        Loaded?
        Yes, loaded. The use of the word ever implies that has never worked and that it will never work. That's why I see it as a loaded question.

        I think your perception for the reason of this thread is loaded.
        I think THAT is really funny. Just take a look at any other MLM thread I've participated in, and you will see that I am one of THE biggest anti-MLM people on this forum. HOWEVER, I also do my best to be objective, and whether I agree or disagree doesn't change the "loaded-ness" of the question you posed.

        I think I presented reasonable questions and comparisons as to why MLM model fails and is not appealing to most, or if it is viable , why anyone has not, is unwilling or cannot fix its inherent weaknesses.
        Your questions, while well-intentioned, do not quite hit the mark of reasonableness, BUT that's only my opinion.

        Why do companies sign up for affiliates to sell their products in COMMISSION JUNCTION and other like types but not so with MLM , whose been around along time?
        I'm sorry, but that question confuses me a bit. Maybe I need more coffee, but I don't think I'm getting your point. However, Commission Junction and MLM are two very different things. The reason some companies use affiliate networks is because it fits THEIR buisness model. Some companies DO use the MLM model to sell their product, but that doesn't mean that a company has to use BOTH affiliates and MLM. Also, you seem to be implying that MLM is a single company.


        Thats another case in point as to why the majority of customers and vendors stay away and/or don't approach it or even attempt to adopt or create a "workable" model.
        I don't see how that follows, but what do you mean by "majority" and where's your data to back up that assertion? Furthermore, many, many, many companies have attempted to come out with a "workable model" for MLM. Now we could discuss whether or not they have succeeded, but there is no question that it has been attempeted many times.


        Internet Marketers produce products and put them on CLICKBANK and other venues, they DO NOT set their products up for MLM, if it was such an appealing an profitable model, there would be much more people tailoring some of their products to plug into that model.
        Actually, the TRUTH is that the vast majority of internet marketers DO NOT use ClickBank, only a very small percentage (single digits or lower) promote on ClickBank. ALSO, SOME internet DO use the MLM model. Think about it, if you have ever seen an MLM online, then it was being PROMOTED online...by...a...get this...internet marketer!


        Is MLM gaining ground?
        I don't think it's gaining ground. I think it's losing ground (only a guess), BUT that has nothing to do with whether or not it DOES or CAN work.


        Are more companies joining the fray, setting up MLM structures to take part in this as a viable positive for their company?
        I don't think so.

        ANYBODY'S company, anyone?
        Of course there are new companies "joining the fray".


        How many WSO'S or even junk mail have you received lately attempting to entice you into MLM?
        I don't know, as soon as I see that it's junk mail, I delete it. But the fact that somebody, somewhere uses junk mail to promote something isn't proof that it doesn't work. That would be like saying Viagra doesn't work because people use spam to promote it. a promotion method doesn't prove or disprove the viability of what's being promoted.


        If it is so viable, let the MLM'ers put up a FREE WSO as a precursor to their MLM recruitment efforts, with useful, actionable information to get potential marketers involved in the funnel.
        I know I have received at least one WSO that did EXACTLY that. It may have even been for the MLM that T uses. Regardless, just because the WSO section isn't flooded with these lead generators doesn't prove anything (for either side).


        That won't be happening anytime soon or in the future, the proof is in the action.
        Not necessarily.


        Even scammers and spammers don't even offer it, even they would rather offer viagra or enlargement products to MLM, and they sell anything, even their mother.
        Proof? Data?


        I simply attempted to get a little more clarity as to either why SHOULD IT work or NOT work, because if it MLM was viable, companies don't often turn their nose up of viable extra income and marketing options and opportunites to expand their growth.
        Re-read that and notice how biased it is. You say you want "a little more clarity" as to why it "should work", but then IMMEDIATELY explain why you think it DOESN'T work. That's not the kind of statement that leads to an open discussion; that's the kind of statement that says "I'm going to pretend that I want an open discussion, but my mind is made up and I'm ready to argue."


        The saturation point of MLM has been discussed before, I thought I brought a slight different analysis as to why MLM can or cannot work,whether its already been brought up or not, right or wrong, I don't know.
        Pro-MLM people often refuse to admit that saturation is a problem, they often to refuse the mathematical impossibilty of it all, and THAT is one of the many reasons why I dislike MLM as a whole. The inability to see and/or admit that the MLM model is flawed is part of the problem. Why not admit the flaws?


        It was also to invite additional opinions of specifics of things that were glaring in the MLM model as to why anyone who would consider such a model would address and simply fix it, or if it could EVER be fixed and how.
        Perhaps it was just the way things were worded that led to the ensuing discussion. There is one post that will set the tone for a thread, and that's the very first post in a thread. I think that's what happened here.


        Or why is MLM consistently including the "pyramid" factor or the viability of any pyramid factor to making the theory applicable.
        Huh?


        I think YOU and others of that similar opinion of this thread being "loaded" already had your minds made up before you even entered this thread.
        If YOU think that to be true, then you have absolutely no idea how I feel about MLM. In fact, I'm trying not to get into the whole MLM debate because I have beat them up enough (trust me), BUT when I see a question that I think is as loaded as the one posed in your subject line, then I'm going to say something.

        But don't make assumptions about me agreeing with the pro-MLM crowd. The only thing I'm agreeing with is that your questions were loaded, and NOT that I think MLM is a viable business model.

        The 13th Warrior
        All the best,
        Michael
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        "Ich bin en fuego!"
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  • Profile picture of the author Legend Dude
    Don't do it. It's a scam.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    My opinion, but MLM works for some and they do very well but most don't make squat. MLM's usually are very good for the owners of the MLM but not always. I've read where the biggest problem an honest MLM company has is growth. Growing too fast leaves them with no inventory and/or no way to pay their distributors.

    While it's been very very good for some people I worry about several factors that make it something I choose not to do.

    1. You are building someone else's business. I guess you could say you are building your own "downline" but in reality it is only yours as long as you are in good favor with the company.

    2. You are not in control. You don't control the products, you don't control what you can say about those products. You don't control what advertising methods you can use. You don't control how you do business. You don't control prices.

    3. Your eggs are in one big basket for the most part. MLM takes your time and in order to succeed you put your heart into building your downline in one company. What happens when you wake up and that company is gone? Your income is gone too. What happens if the company changes the commission structure and destroys your juicy income?

    I guess that could be applied to other things like Adsense, CPA, Bum marketing, etc. but I see MLM as a bigger risk.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Scott Ames View Post

      My opinion, but MLM works for some and they do very well but most don't make squat.
      Sounds a little like internet marketing? Or almost any other form of self-employment?

      Funny, that ...
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  • Profile picture of the author N4PGW
    Having met and talked with some of the higher ranking members of an old MLM company, I learned the truth about where the money comes from and where it goes.

    One of the millionaire's exposed the fact that he only gets a few hundred thousand from the downline product commission. The big money comes from the downline selling his motivational products with which there is no MLM commissions, and from the speaking engagements.

    At one level in the business the members group together to form a trust and make huge investments such as buying large chunks of real estate. Its the only investment he would reveal, but I did get the impression that one of their purchases was a tropical island that is a vacation resort. Other investments were large land purchases where they built luxury neighborhoods.

    Needless to say, I was ultra surprised to learn that this multi-digit-millionaire only earned way less than $1/2 million in product sales.
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