Do The Nice (Internet Marketing) Guys Really Finish Last?

I think it has to do with mentality more than anything else. Those type of people put earnings first, whereas money might not be as important to a "nicer" person. That said, you can still market very successfully and do very well if you're a nice person. You just need to have your head in the right place.

Priorities, man.

If you can keep a cool head and still really care about how much you earn, I'm sure you can do better than the "mean" people. From my experience, a lot of them are mean due to stress from wanting to do well.

That's probably true.

But I also think it's possible to not be a pansy but also be a nice person at the same time.

It really comes down to confidence rather than being nice or mean.

Unfortunately a lot of nice people seem to not have much confidence in their abilities.

I guess...

What do I know

I believe it's true to a certain degree and false to a certain degree. I feel as if the meaner a boss is, the more resistance and anger he'll create for his workers---Then these workers will probably start looking for another place to work. However, some people need a kick in the butt sometimes in order to get the ball rolling. For example, a trainer who is trying to help someone lose 20lbs in a month--- do you think he would be more effective in helping them if he was strict and harsh about their diet and workout routine or if he was nice and lenient?

Yes, I think it is true to a certain extent but never become someone you are not to chase the love of money. It would come back to bite you in the you know... Treat others as you would like to be treated and be the best you can while being profitable.

It could be true... sort of the old "ask for what you want" etc. may come off as pushy, etc.
But, then those that are always "asking for what they want" end up getting what they want more often than those that expect to have "what they want" fall on their head out of the sky...


Robert

oh come on!

I don't buy it for one second because a person can still be firm and assertive without having to be pushy or a complete a-hole. It's okay to be nice, just not too nice where one becomes a door mat.

RoD

Good question Niche Man.
I would relate business to the dating game of life. We all see the man who plays the woman to the T and is "meaner" and rude and flaky typically get many woman. But watch that man ten years from now, still running the same game, quick dates, short relationships. Now the man that is nice , cordial, reliable. This man gets the right girl and keeps her. I business do you want to be the guy always chasing the new deal cause you burned the old, or the one who has long term consistent revenue streams. Be nice, regardless of how much money you see the a-hole making. And Smile even when your typing.

Unfortunately that is the case with almost everything nowadays. People that are willing to override their conscience usually get farther than others. But I'm too scared of Karma to let the possibility of more money legitimize ripping off others.

Tough question but overall I believe you can be a nice person but still get **** done...period

I don't think being an A-hole and ripping people off go hand in hand.

The arrogant person is more likely to ask for the sale or the signature a lot more times than the quite nice guy. The arrogant guy uses PERSISTANCE and therefore succeeds.

The nice guy will see a negative reaction (Objection) and may back down from chasing the end result to spare the feelings etc of the potential buyer.
(empathy)

I think its finding a balance between being an A-hole and being a nice guy. Sometimes people need that A-hole to get moving, other times they need the nice guy.

The A-hole will get more money up front, the nice guy will get more in the longer term through repeat business.

BALANCE and realising that Confidence is often mistaken as arrogance.

My 2 Cents

Oda

Disagree. In fact, nice guys are the ones who make more money, because simply they're nice. Nice people are likeable, sometimes people hire someone not because he's skillful, but because he's nice.

Now that you mention it, I've noticed in corporate America that most people who are higher up on the pay ladder usually don't have the nicest attitudes. Then again, these are also the people who are ridiculously business focused and dedicated to their jobs.

In a very general sense, I agree with that. "Nicer" people do tend
to be less pushy - both with others and themselves... and so make
less money or attain higher levels of a conventionally defined "success".

But change the frame of reference to "being happy with yourself",
and "nice" people trump the "dirty bastiches" all day long!

For oneself, it's always a 'trial and error' process to set the line
you won't cross. It's NICE to be able to be NASTY when necessary!!!

It's also an art form to APPEAR to be Mr.Nice Guy - while actually
being something totally different ;-)

All success
Dr.Mani

I dont think nice people finish last (Pushover may).

Nice people who build good business systems and marketing and customer service wont

Nice people who build poor business systems and marketing and customer service will finish last.

Cheers,
Mukul

I don't think it's an issue of being meaner or nicer. I think it is an issue of confidence. People are more likely to do business with a sales person who is more confident of the product they are selling.

It's very similar to the old adage the "nice guys finish last" in the dating the world. Which is FALSE...it has nothing to do with being a "nice guy"...it has everything to do with that fact that a woman is looking for a strong confident man.

Nice, mean...the real issue is be strong, confident in what you are offering and you will go far no matter what you do.

Michael

I don't personally think it's that there just out right being mean. It's just that they don't take no S**T from others and have the balls or the metaphorical balls (for the Ladies) to stand up for themselves and present their ideas in a confident manner.

There's a difference between being nice and being a pushover. Sometimes not being a push over will have you classified as an assh*le if that's the case I would rather be an a hole than a push over

I do not think that the nice guys finish last. However, if you do not have thick skin you will not to be able to make it in this game.

Also, I think that it is true when they say that people that are not very agreeable get further. The reason being is because they have an opinion. People like people that stand out. You cannot stand out if you just follow the crowd. You need to have an opinion and you need to stand on that opinion. If you don't have an opinion or you don't stand out you're just another marketer.

in the office, people wouldn't be interested in going the extra mile for me if i was a jerk all the time....and at some point you're gonna need them to...that's the way work goes.

you're work will be affected and it'll reflect badly on you..then the snowball rolls

same goes with your online biz...leave people with a good taste in their mouth from there first experience with your products and they'll be more likely to come back and buy your next, bigger, more expensive product in the future.

that is...if you raise the price to meet the true value of your content.

Be honest and nice and I think it will pay in the end... :-)

Definitely has to do with the mentality.

As to being 'pushy' and arrogant this may be referred to as Authoritarian leadership style, where in the boss doesnt care anything aside from perfect and on-time output. Everything should be how, what were you instructed and when it should be delivered as instructed. The boss directs EVERYTHING and looks at his employees as per output. This can actually be very helpful for a company which is only starting out or the employees are inexperienced. But generally I believe this should normally be used on rare occassions...or when the situation really calls for it.

But..however...being 'mean' if that would refer to as yelling, using demeaning language, and leading by threats and abusing their power, this is not the authoritarian style, rather it is an abusive, unprofessional style called “bossing people around.” It has no place in a leader's repertoire and I do not believe this will drive you to success both personally professionaly.

Wow what a provocative discussion. I think A-holes and Meaner people do make more money than your typical Nice guy or Nice Gal. Like others have said, most of the time they will usually step on or over anyone or anything to get what they want.

And unfortunately I think that a lot of them get even worse as time goes on because of in-security, and the sense that others are always after what they have. And in a way, of course we all know that they are usually their worst enemies; and usually self-distruct sooner or later.

But I do think that most of them will usually out perform a nice person financially if you compare a certain number of both over a long period of time.

I'll always take the middle ground and be a nice guy, until someone helps me not to be.... Lol.

Depends on how you define nice ... ?

Maybe in a corp env. But in IM, especially if you are a lone wolf, it is a lot easier to be nice and make a great living instead of being mean.

Try being mean and see how long you last in the IM world. It may work as long as people are able to sense that it is an 'image'. If one is truly mean and people perceive it as such, then they will disappear, in a jiffy.

I see some really great comments here!
I agree with many of them, this is an open question that has a lot of variables, that being said I feel that there is sometimes a fine line between sometimes making the hard choices and being considered an A-hole, so much depends on your perception of what and why it's being done as well as how it affects you personally! (As an example) we all see the videos that play automatically without controls and we pretty much all don't like the fact that we only have 2 choices, ( watch or click away) but it's been tested and proven that in most markets this type will outperform others. So the question is, is the person making this video an A-hole or a smart business person that is not trying to alienate others but just trying to use what works?
Sometimes you try to make choices that's good for you and your business as well as the other folks around you that may piss someone off!
The best course of action in my opinion is to treat people with respect and use the golden rule as your guide (and know I don't mean the he who has the gold rule), but you still need to be able to sometimes make the unpopular choices.

I believe nice guys do finished last! Nice guys are easily to be push over. I do believe that you have to provide value to people and understand your worth. Now if you mean you want last long in the business world or know where for that matter. You can't be a push over. Focus on creating a win win situation for all party involve. Most nice guys go for a win lose situation.

I think this is from the book "Black Swan"...

If you jump from a plane without a parachute and start falling 10,000 feet... the first 9,500 feet are ok and you're really flying... it's that last 500ft that's the problem.

The 'not so nice guys' - and maybe the get rick quick crew - are moving fast and everything seems ok... because that first 9,500 ft are cool... but will they survive the last 500 ft when they've burned their subscribers, shafted their JV partners and ruined their reputations?

$10,000? Even an extra $10,000 every year? Not worth it. Being mean makes you die sooner too.

When it comes to business, it would be better to be a worse person because if you aren't nice then you won't do any favors for anybody or give out anything, where as if you are nice you will help people out and not charge for certain things.

Just my two cents.

A few weeks back, some jerk backed into my rear view mirror. I was pretty angry about it because they did a runner on me, but luckily, I managed to find 2 breakers that had them in stock...

Anyway, when I called up the first garage, I asked a few questions about what color it was, and some questions about other parts I needed for my interior that got lost... he was nice and sounded very helpful. I let him know I'll be coming in a little later if I didn't find anywhere closer to pick the parts up from.

The second garbage, I mean garage I called, same story. Except I could tell the guy sounded like a jerk and wasn't very helpful... I could hear the agitation in his voice as I asked him about what other parts he had in stock for my particular model. He started raising his voice and getting more and more pissed off for no real reason!

... Finally, it got to the point where I was extremely irritated and said "Mate, you have a real f***ing attitude problem you know that?"

"Well if you'd stop asking questions and just get to the point, maybe I'd stop aye?"

"Yeah, well piss off, I'm not coming in, ever"

Then I hung up.

Nice guys win in my book

Ansar

I read another perspective on this issue this morning on CNN: Not nice guys, but cowards, finish last - CNN.com

Rich Dad, Poor Dad's opinion was that people who are cowards and not able to stand up for what they believe in finish last and that some people with those traits just see themselves as being "agreeable" or "nice guys".

Maybe it's true, but if it is, I think that in general nice people aren't as money focused as the arrogant pushy people. So maybe arrogant people make more money but at the end of the day who likes them??

You can't take the money with u when u die people!

In a way, I could say that it is true, but in my opinion, it has nothing to do with being mean to people can generate more money. It is being stated that being mean, which I could translate, being strict to your workers is you wanted your office to perform freely and productively. Probably the word mean boss is the strict boss, and I myself am strict when it comes to work so that we could be productive to our customers. If we are weak and kind to our workers, they would at sometimes abuse the boss's kindness. That is why, meaner boss are more successful.
Mean boss are not bad boss, there are good boss that are mean since it is necessary to impose our rules on them for them to do what they are supposed to be doing.

Confidence, it's definitely confidence that sells. This person might be arrogant, but people can't resist his confidence in what he's selling. Of course, it also depends on what you sell. But a balance with being a nice person, and convincing/influencing another to buy with confidence if the formula to sell. (Robert Cialdini - Influence, great read!)