WHY IM IS A BAD IDEA FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON

by BIG Mike Banned
103 replies
I often read or hear about how 95% of Internet Marketers fail online every year. I'm not sure where that number comes from, but truth be told, I tend to agree with it, based on my own experience coaching and mentoring others in IM.

And then something occurred to me and I thought, "Wait a minute - where do newcomers to IM usually learn it from in the first place? From other Internet Marketers of course, through info products, seminars, coaching and so forth."

So the question begs, "what does that really say about the true value of info or make money online products and services?" Do the math and think about that one for a moment!

And you've probably heard yourself the usual response from those promoting these products, which is, if you can't make an info product work successfully, it's because you're lazy and don't take action.

I've coached more than enough people online to know with absolute certainty that the problem is not laziness or a lack of action. It's because these products fail miserably at teaching the most important element of all - how to start and manage a business online.

That said, I want to explore a novel concept with you in this thread - giving up Internet Marketing and focusing instead on launching, managing and expanding your own sustainable business online (or off if you prefer).

Armed with the real knowledge you need, almost anyone can do this successfully!

A lot of folks think they're in business online, but in reality, they're working primarily for others. That's not to imply they don't make any money at it, but in the strictest sense of the word, it's not really a business. I say this because their so-called business model relies entirely on third parties to be successful.

Like the grasshopper in the fable, a lot of newcomers to IM, tend to jump from program-to-program, never fully leveraging any one opportunity. In part, it's the Information Overload Syndrome we all suffer from, along with a general lack of focus. I'll come back to that in a moment...

So consider this in terms of brick and mortar businesses - how many times have you seen a small start up continually change its core business activity? Probably never, unless you've got some truly insane business people in your community. The cost of a startup precludes the very thing that holds most people back online.

Online, it's just too damn easy to buy another ebook and take off in an entirely new direction, isn't it? And before you know it, the other things you were working on sort of fell by the wayside altogether, right? Sound familiar?

How many ebooks do you have sitting around on your computer collecting dust that you never used? Did they truly add to your business knowledge or just confuse you even more? How long is the list of things you're going to try someday? More importantly, have any of them actually made you any money?

It's kind of like being on the carousel from hell - it goes round and round, faster and faster and you can't ever seem to get off it, and yet you'll still keep spending your money on trying to learn how you can snatch that brass ring!

If you're looking to build a sustainable business during 2011 that will be profitable for years to come, it's time to stop chasing after the big score and focus on reality. If you are realistic, patient and willing to take things a step at a time, I believe you could do this easily. Virtually everyone I've ever coached or mentored has, so why should you be any different?

So how can you adapt to doing this...developing a sustainable business online that will last a lifetime? The answer is a simple one - you need to start at the beginning, taking stock of yourself and your resources and then formulate a plan. You need to do this honestly and objectively - keep your emotions out of it.

I'm not necessarily talking about a professional business plan so much as I am talking about laying the groundwork for what will come later. This plan needs to be what I call a Living Document; it must be flexible and scalable for both you and your business to grow.

Forget the big score, quit trying to monetize every breath you take and start thinking long-term. Make everything you do today focus on giving you some sort of tangible ROI Return On Investment) for years to come. I do this more or less every day and it pays off astronomically well!
#average #bad #idea #person
  • Profile picture of the author Bill_Z
    Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post


    So consider this in terms of brick and mortar businesses - how many times have you seen a small start up continually change its core business activity? Probably never, unless you've got some truly insane business people in your community. The cost of a startup precludes the very thing that holds most people back online.

    Online, it's just too damn easy to buy another ebook and take off in an entirely new direction, isn't it? And before you know it, the other things you were working on sort of fell by the wayside altogether, right? Sound familiar?
    Yep, because a brick and mortar businesses realize it can take months to years to be profitable. They stick to plan and drive through, and it either becomes profitable or not.

    It's way too easy to start up something else online as opposed to offline. But online it's the same - it can takes months to years to be profitable, but people too often believe there is so much 'quick' and 'easy' money to be made so when it doesn't happen right away they make a switch to something else way too quick.
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  • Profile picture of the author RichardF
    Well said! I know I've been guilty of jumping from one opportunity to another in the past. Not anymore though - I learned that lesson the hard way. I think part of the problem when you're new is knowing WHAT to focus on, since you don't have any experience to draw from.
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  • Profile picture of the author Burton Lancaster
    Nice post, I really don't think the average person has the time, commitment, and focus to be an IMer. Most of you are probably in the same boat as I am ... running 16 hour work days.
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonGiorgini
      Originally Posted by Burton Lancaster View Post

      Nice post, I really don't think the average person has the time, commitment, and focus to be an IMer.
      So true. Many people don't even have the time to read this entire post either, but they need to.

      Like in elementary, I say when students fail, the bulk of the blame lies on the teacher.

      The same can be said for IM.
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      • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
        Originally Posted by Rich*******s View Post

        Like in elementary, I say when students fail, the bulk of the blame lies on the teacher.

        The same can be said for IM.
        I respectfully disagree.

        I think people need to take responsibility for their own success and failures, rather than look around to see who they can blame when things go wrong.

        For example: If the person fails due to a bad teacher, then he should have done his due diligence first to make sure he's getting good information from a good source.

        ~Becky
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        • Profile picture of the author azmanar
          Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

          I respectfully disagree.

          I think people need to take responsibility for their own success and failures, rather than look around to see who they can blame when things go wrong.

          For example: If the person fails due to a bad teacher, then he should have done his due diligence first to make sure he's getting good information from a good source.

          ~Becky
          I agree that we should be accountable for our own success and failure.

          However, the environment do influence success or failure in many ways, in this case "teachers" is a major part of the environment.

          Due diligence ( aka evaluation ) requires knowledge. Knowledge comes from teachers, reference materials, peers and experience ( trial and errors ).

          The ability of doing due diligence is highly dependent on the quality of who are closest to us and the knowledge we acquired as we go along.

          A person is pretty lucky that he could get a good teacher from the very beginning of his IM venture. Probably this person is in a small minority.

          As for the rest like me, we have to strive and pass through so many challenges - bad teachers, info overload, scams, public opinion, loss of resources and etc.

          Fortunately, some angels in WF pulled some of us out from the muddy rut and helped us be on track. Maybe they saw our seriousness and our will to carry on and therefore worth being helped.

          My point is, the errors we made helps greatly if we are willing to face failures. Therefore not for cowards and lazy people. And most importantly, the nudge by gracious warriors are very valuable, without which will take us a very long time to even see where the track begins.
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          • Profile picture of the author peachy
            I am an average person who just lost my job. I have been looking for ways to make money online for 4 yrs. now with no success. Now, that I have no job, I have been scouring the internet looking for that one program that promises riches. I started one and am still setting that one up. Then with my last paycheck, I recently bought another one because of the video of someone who bought the program and made money after one day. I had to buy it. I have it set up, but forgot that I was going to have to drive traffic to it. I don't have the extra money to buy solo ads, so I am trying to find ways to drive traffic. Meanwhile, I still have the first program that I need to finish. Here's the thing, I blame nobody but myself for this situation. Instead of focusing and mastering the first program, which by the way is great and will make me money, once I dedicate more time and effort, I had to buy the latest and greatest that promised me riches overnight. I feel silly because I know better.
            I think that IM can be for everyone who really wants it. You just need to take the steps that will make you successful. I have learned the hard way that you will not get rich overnight. I am dedicating myself to the first program because it comes with support. I feel foolish for having bought the second one, but since it is up and running, I am going to have to find a way of getting traffic to it without spending a lot of money.
            I don't think that it is the advertisers fault, I feel that if someone wants start an online business, it is up to that person to do their research. I know that the ads for these programs are very tempting, especially to someone who just lost their job, but ultimately it is up to that person to make the right choice.
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            • Profile picture of the author spideysteve
              Originally Posted by peachy View Post

              Here's the thing, I blame nobody but myself for this situation. Instead of focusing and mastering the first program, which by the way is great and will make me money, once I dedicate more time and effort, I had to buy the latest and greatest that promised me riches overnight. I feel silly because I know better.
              Yes, that's a start right there. Taking responsibility. It sucks and is tough to take responsibility for an action that is slowing you down, but here you've done it. That is definitely a start in the right direction.

              Take time around this forum ... you will find lots of info on how to get traffic to your site for free. It takes time and patience, but keep at it and you will see results.
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        • Profile picture of the author RayWhittaker
          Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

          I respectfully disagree.

          I think people need to take responsibility for their own success and failures, rather than look around to see who they can blame when things go wrong.
          Yes it's true that people need to take responsibility for their own actions; and many people don't do that. But it's also true that newbies are being duped into believing they can start a sustainable online business working just an hour a day. I know of one IM guru that claimed it could be done in 30 minutes a day on autopilot. Now you may think only the gullible would fall for such a sales pitch but these people know how to put a compelling case.

          Most gurus blame students for 'not taking action'. The inference is they are lazy or stupid. I don't believe that 95% of people are lazy or stupid.

          Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

          For example: If the person fails due to a bad teacher, then he should have done his due diligence first to make sure he's getting good information from a good source.

          ~Becky
          How is a newbie supposed to do good due diligence? They are by definition, ignorant of the scams that people roll out and as I said, they can present very compelling cases.

          So while I agree with you that people need to take responsibility for their actions, I would argue that extends to all of the people in this industry; that includes the successful IM big hitters. Misleading people with claims of easy money does not to my mind seem responsible.
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      • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
        Originally Posted by Rich*******s View Post

        Like in elementary, I say when students fail, the bulk of the blame lies on the teacher.
        Have you ever been a teacher? I was... true, ages ago.

        How is the teacher's fault if out of your 253 students 200 do well, 47 just get by... and 5 fail miserably. E.g. because they are lazy or mentally challenged or just don't give a sh*t.

        Keep promoting that insane idea about blaming the teacher and the whole society will grow up illiterate and idiot but with a lot of sense of entitlement
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        • Profile picture of the author cscarpero
          It's interesting how different the expectation is in im vs "real business". If you open a restaurant or store you expect to lose money the first couple of years and work 60 hours a week in the process. Anyone who comes into im with that kind of dedication WILL make it.

          Sadly though, most people don't have that kind of dedication which will cause the failure.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

          I respectfully disagree.

          I think people need to take responsibility for their own success and failures, rather than look around to see who they can blame when things go wrong.

          For example: If the person fails due to a bad teacher, then he should have done his due diligence first to make sure he's getting good information from a good source.

          ~Becky
          Becky, I have to disagree with you about this, at least partially.

          One of the biggest obstacles many newbies face is that they don't know what they don't know. In this case, many can't tell a good source from a good sauce. They don't have anything to judge by.

          Now if they get their noses bloodied a few times and continue to make the same mistakes over and over again, then you can start looking at the student.

          We both know that there are some really crappy products out there with really good sales letters. Good enough to tempt even those of us who have been around the block enough times to know better. What chance does a newbie have without that context?

          The newbies who go on to success learn from their lumps and don't repeat their mistakes. They might make new ones, but don't we all?
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        • Profile picture of the author ShayB
          A Tale of Two Coaches:

          Coach #1 has a coaching program that takes 6 weeks. It lays the foundation of a true business that is sustainable and scalable. He or she tells the students that they will be putting a great deal of work for those six weeks, complete with homework and accountability posts on the coaching forum.

          Coach #2 has a coaching program that proclaims you can make money with no effort and have results within days.

          Which one do you think will have more students?

          Which one do you think will have students making money a year from now?

          Do I think that some responsibility lies with the coach? Yes, I do think that comes into play. I think the coaches should teach things that will actually work.

          But I also think that people need to understand the difference between chasing bright, shiny objects and gimmicks and having a true business.
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        • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
          Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

          Have you ever been a teacher? I was... true, ages ago.

          How is the teacher's fault if out of your 253 students 200 do well, 47 just get by... and 5 fail miserably. E.g. because they are lazy or mentally challenged or just don't give a sh*t.

          Keep promoting that insane idea about blaming the teacher and the whole society will grow up illiterate and idiot but with a lot of sense of entitlement
          It's funny; I was arguing a similar, but less extreme point in a thread the other day, where someone was saying if your ebook buyers have a 99% failure rate, then you're a scammer.

          I said that the 1% who succeed might indicate your method's viability, and that most ebook buyers never even read the whole thing, so that's on them. It's conceivable that your product is great, but that most people need more hand-holding, which perhaps you never claimed to provide, having supplied great information, but left the motivation part to the student.

          But I didn't go so far as to put all the blame on the student. I think the truth is more nuanced, and you grossly overstated your case when you called it "insane" to blame the teacher, and predicted the dire consequences of mass idiocy and illiteracy, for merely arguing that more of the responsibility for failure belongs to the teacher than the student. That to me, is such an extreme, unqualified statement, as to appear ridiculous.

          Often the blame is shared, not always equally, but it takes two to tango, and there are bad teachers and misinformation being marketed, as well as poor students with great teachers. I have no doubt there are many cases where 90% of the cause of failure is poor teaching, and many others where 90% is poor (or no) execution by the student.

          Any student that believes most of the blame for his/her failure is the teacher is probably wrong, and would be better served to assume more responsibility. The same goes in the other direction for teachers that blame the students.

          Before arguing whose fault failure is, it would be wise to define the roles of teacher and student. Lack of agreement on that can often lead to an endless cycle of arguments leading to an ultimate impass.

          In the sale of a $17 ebook, it's ridiculous to expect a high rate of success for students who might purchase several such ebooks per week, shifting business models each time.

          But if you have a $300-1000 per month coaching program, and take 24-48 hours on average to answer simple questions from students that might be stuck until they get the answer, it's ridiculous to blame them entirely for not producing a good income after a couple of months.

          Ultimately, I think the best students take on the lion's share of responsibility for their own success or failure. The best teachers also take the lion's share themselves, so that way, each side is doing their best, assuming that it's up to them to do all in their power to create a success.

          If you have the opposite-a teacher and student, both looking to blame the other, should the student fail, then failure is almost assured.
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        • Profile picture of the author wisedave
          Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

          Have you ever been a teacher? I was... true, ages ago.

          How is the teacher's fault if out of your 253 students 200 do well, 47 just get by... and 5 fail miserably. E.g. because they are lazy or mentally challenged or just don't give a sh*t.

          Keep promoting that insane idea about blaming the teacher and the whole society will grow up illiterate and idiot but with a lot of sense of entitlement
          Istvan,

          That is well said......short, sweet and true.

          Cheers,

          Dave
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

          How is the teacher's fault if out of your 253 students 200 do well, 47 just get by... and 5 fail miserably. E.g. because they are lazy or mentally challenged or just don't give a sh*t.
          The key word here is "student." In many people's opinion (including mine), people do not learn effectively - and hence are not really students - unless and until they are investing their own time and money toward a goal of their own choosing.

          We might call the thirty people crammed into a room for compulsory state-defined education "students," but it's wishful thinking. Most of them are not students at all.
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          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author RayWhittaker
          Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

          Have you ever been a teacher? I was... true, ages ago.

          How is the teacher's fault if out of your 253 students 200 do well, 47 just get by... and 5 fail miserably. E.g. because they are lazy or mentally challenged or just don't give a sh*t.

          Keep promoting that insane idea about blaming the teacher and the whole society will grow up illiterate and idiot but with a lot of sense of entitlement
          I like the teacher analogy since many of the IM gurus are setting themselves up as teachers.

          Given the figures quoted above, I would say that should be regarded as a success. But if a teacher teaches a straight forward process or subject to 200 motivated students of average intelligence, wouldn't you expect a better than 5% success rate?

          In any other industry it's a really bad idea to blame your customer when things go wrong. Yet the IM business gets away with it all the time. There are IM gurus that claim to be able to teach IM, step-by-step to anyone; 'it's easy' they say. Yet 95% of the time they fail to deliver on that promise. In what other industry would a 95% failure rate be acceptable?

          Yes the student has a responsibility to apply what's been taught. But the teacher has a responsibility to support that student when what they've been taught doesn't work. For either side to lay blame at the other's feet is counter productive in the long run.
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          • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
            Originally Posted by RayWhittaker View Post

            I like the teacher analogy since many of the IM gurus are setting themselves up as teachers.

            Given the figures quoted above, I would say that should be regarded as a success. But if a teacher teaches a straight forward process or subject to 200 motivated students of average intelligence, wouldn't you expect a better than 5% success rate?

            In any other industry it's a really bad idea to blame your customer when things go wrong. Yet the IM business gets away with it all the time. There are IM gurus that claim to be able to teach IM, step-by-step to anyone; 'it's easy' they say. Yet 95% of the time they fail to deliver on that promise. In what other industry would a 95% failure rate be acceptable?

            Yes the student has a responsibility to apply what's been taught. But the teacher has a responsibility to support that student when what they've been taught doesn't work. For either side to lay blame at the other's feet is counter productive in the long run.
            unfortunatley passing an exam with a pass % of anywhere between 30% and 100% which will give you a pass grade of some description is not the same as being successful at IM

            You can qualify as a mechanic after a 3 year apprentiship go out on the job and still be a mediocre mechanic.

            And Most IM students wont do a 3 month apprentiship never mind a 3 year one

            They want to buy a 6 week course and end up a marketing genius...and then blame the teacher when thats not how it works.

            It took me 3 years to make it so i could live off IM, and another 8 years honing skills, pushing barriers...and im still learning

            A home study course can only get you up to average. After that its all about being able to use what you know, what you see and what you discover using those skills to refine and move forward.

            Its the one thing a teacher can never hope to teach somone HOW TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES ONCE THE COURSE IS FINISHED

            ps: IF JUST ONE STUDENT MAKES IT WORK NO STUDENT CAN EVER SAY THIS DOESNT WORK, because those that went before him have proven it does work. If it doesnt work for you...then its the you bit thats substandard
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    • Profile picture of the author Buddha94
      Originally Posted by Burton Lancaster View Post

      Nice post, I really don't think the average person has the time, commitment, and focus to be an IMer. Most of you are probably in the same boat as I am ... running 16 hour work days.
      Commitment counts a lot, some are just pressing their luck instead of making things work. Seriously!
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  • Profile picture of the author warriorjohn1444
    Banned
    Putting sanity to online business and commitment from newbies is almost impossible. The internet is the freest and easiest place for anyone to come into and leave. This accounts for why a lot of myth circulate successfully which often lead to failure at the long run.

    We ourselves are guilty of the same thing when we first started. But i discovered something along the line, i was dead broke but with lots of ideas and skills that could have made me thousands of dollars online.

    Yes, i had the million dollar idea because i was everywhere at one certain time. A time will then come for those who are destine to be internet entrepreneurs to get their priorities right.

    I joined so many affiliate program and made money for the owners but i got to discover the best out there by the advanced and detailed marketing guide it offers. Today, it is responsible for my IM success.
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  • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
    Let's face it: just like in the offline world, the majority of people trying online are not business minded - they have employee brain and mentality: "tell me exactly what to do, step by step"...

    Well, guys, your bosses at your present day jobs are telling you exactly what to do, if that's what you want. Or, if you have enough capital to invest, buy a franchise; they, usually, outline for you all the details.

    Being a business owner is not only about having the 'independence' in your work and schedule - it is also about being an independent and creative thinker.

    A lot of people coming here and asking about "fast start" "quick money" ("need money tomorrow") have the mentality of my teenager neighbour who would cut my grass or shovel the snow for a quick buck. There are millions of teenagers like that, we all know them. They are the proverbial average.

    And there were these two brothers I knew, who went to the bank (as teenagers!), presented a business plan, applied for a loan to buy equipment and started a full service landscaping business... lawn mowing included

    Do you start seeing the difference? :p
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  • Profile picture of the author webfighter
    Exactly. Most of the times, its not lack of motivation but lack of consistency in the efforts. When I started online, I wanted to make money for the heck of it.

    I've had friends who thought they were computer geeks and wanted me to teach them how I did it. Why? Because its cool to work from home and there's little hard work involved.

    But the moment I run them through what I actually have to do online, they are like - man that must be daunting.
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  • Profile picture of the author shuvo
    Well I enjoyed the post.In fact I would be happy if you share more tips in the thread.However I agree with you.I myself working for others but took attempt for a few times to get started with IM but every time I get failed because I was never focused and I dont have enough time to wait for making money which is a base for success with IM.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brian Alaway
    So true but I think this is true of many businesses today, including off-line business. They are so under capitalized that they're forced to focus on just making payroll and consequently all their efforts are focused on the short term.

    In a somewhat related email I received, Lee McIntyre deactivated his Twitter account. The reason being that it wasn't necessary to his success and was more of a distraction. Not recommended for those who've built a successful business off Twitter but his point was to find just one thing that works really well (in fact it could be Twitter) and focus exclusively on that. That KISS principle does have it's merits.
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  • Profile picture of the author wanjugu
    This article is really coming at a very crucial moment for Kenya.We are just trying to mould our pioneer serious IMs.Its really tough just explaining to Kenyans how you can make money online.As you say,the big question is,are we in business or furthering other IMs agendas in the name of online business?Truth be told,we are making good money in dollars for that matter.But is it matching what they make in the developed economies?
    I need to know how much an average IM makes in a day/month/year
    Please advise...
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    • Profile picture of the author scottmanesis
      Originally Posted by wanjugu View Post

      This article is really coming at a very crucial moment for Kenya.We are just trying to mould our pioneer serious IMs.Its really tough just explaining to Kenyans how you can make money online.As you say,the big question is,are we in business or furthering other IMs agendas in the name of online business?Truth be told,we are making good money in dollars for that matter.But is it matching what they make in the developed economies?
      I need to know how much an average IM makes in a day/month/year
      Please advise...
      The AVERAGE Imer makes no money. In fact the Average IMer SPENDS way more than they will ever make.....but that is the case in any industry that relies on your income to mirror your personal efforts. Most car salesmen dont make much money, others make enough to buy dealerships. This is just part of people being people...the top 3 percent make the most.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
    Pick one way of doing this and then work and work at it until your exceptionally good at it. And then the flavour of the week marketing trends are all irrelevant, and wont distract you
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  • Profile picture of the author Kierkegaard
    Human beings have evolved from living in packs to being herd animals. We attempt to understand the world around us and our place in it by copying others. Most people need to be shown exactly what to do and when to do it. Women's magazines tell them what to wear and when to wear it; if you're a man then pick up a copy of GQ and you'll be told what watch, suit and shoes to wear and what these items will say about you on your behalf.

    One afternoon spent reading this forum will tell someone of average intelligence what they need to do to be successfull at IM but this isn't enough for the average person. Because it's not about intelligence but the will to go it alone. Most human beings don't like being alone.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bballer1
    Whatever happened to good ole' "patience and hardwork"? People nowadays are looking for instant gratification. They look for so called businesses or systems that would give them their desired income in an instant...without the required time and effort.

    In their desperation, they look for shortcuts to success and turn to internet marketing where they have this notion that everything runs in autopilot and that you can see money coming in in just a few hours after starting. They have to realize that running an online business would need the same effort and dedication as running a brick and mortar business.
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  • Profile picture of the author I.M.Retired
    I’m not necessarily talking about a professional business plan so much as I am talking about laying the groundwork for what will come later. This plan needs to be what I call a Living Document; it must be flexible and scalable for both you and your business to grow.
    Mike: I think a professional business plan is exactly what you are describing. A business plan contains (or at least it should contain) the essentials necessary for laying the groundwork for what comes later. A good business plan is both scalable AND flexible.

    What I see lacking in most failed business ventures, online and off, is a strategic marketing plan.

    A strategic marketing plan concentrates its limited resources on the greatest opportunities to increase sales and achieve a sustainable, competitive advantage.
    A strategic marketing plan does not mean occasionally posting a WSO, crossing your fingers and hoping for the best; flailing away on Fiverr; writing an eBook and hoping like hang it will sell, or any of the other tactics that are popular these days. A strategic marketing plan is almost a military-like, systematic, long-range plan of attack. In order to reach your goal, today you do this; tomorrow that.

    You also stated:

    A lot of folks think they’re in business online, but in reality, they’re working primarily for others. That’s not to imply they don’t make any money at it, but in the strictest sense of the word, it’s not really a business. I say this because their so-called business model relies entirely on third parties to be successful.
    I agree. People who are affiliate marketers or who rely on third parties for their main source of income are sales people.

    There is a big difference between being a salesperson, being self employed and running a business.

    While a person who is self employed is their own boss, which means they can chose whatever product or strategy they want in hopes of generating revenue from their efforts, including affiliate sales, it does not necessarily follow that the self-employed person is running a business. (In accordance with established business principles and practices, that is.)

    A person who is in business is a business owner. A business (also known as a company, enterprise, and firm) is a legally recognized organization designed to provide goods or services, or both, to consumers, businesses and governmental entities. Business owners are basically an employee of their own business. As a business owner, he or she is responsible for the choices, decisions and directions the business takes. A big responsibility at the best of times. When their business succeeds, they succeed.
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Val.S. View Post

      Mike: I think a professional business plan is exactly what you are describing. A business plan contains (or at least it should contain) the essentials necessary for laying the groundwork for what comes later. A good business plan is both scalable AND flexible.
      Shhh...

      Just the idea of a "Professional" business plan scares most people. For starters they think it's some overwhelmingly complex document that their banker would want to see.

      What they don't realize is they can jot down the fundamentals of their plan in a plain text file and call it done, tweaking it over time as their experience and resources grow.

      quote]What I see lacking in most failed business ventures, online and off, is a strategic marketing plan.[/quote]

      I agree - this is one of the biggest pitfalls and the reason why they buy up so many IM info products. They're looking for a copy and paste strategy that will work every time on every product they get their hands on.
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      • Profile picture of the author azmanar
        Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

        Shhh...

        Just the idea of a "Professional" business plan scares most people. For starters they think it's some overwhelmingly complex document that their banker would want to see.

        What they don't realize is they can jot down the fundamentals of their plan in a plain text file and call it done, tweaking it over time as their experience and resources grow.

        quote]What I see lacking in most failed business ventures, online and off, is a strategic marketing plan.
        I agree - this is one of the biggest pitfalls and the reason why they buy up so many IM info products. They're looking for a copy and paste strategy that will work every time on every product they get their hands on.[/QUOTE]

        Hi,

        I agree totally. Let me share 2 short stories taken from real life events.

        --- Story No. 1 ---

        A friend spent almost $500k since April 2010 for a Green business. It is a pet project. He didn't even have a plan but has a great vision, fervour and deep pocket.

        Vision, fervour and money didn't help him much and he almost gave up early 2011. Some time in March this year, he created a simple strategic plan, which we discussed together. It bear fruit. This month, he started to export his products to Korea and Turkey. And just closed a contract to supply green material for a solar-based power producer.

        Heck. The strategic plan was done in a couple of hours over coffee, cakes and 2 plates of spaghetti. lol.

        --- Story No. 2 ---

        A friend ( a founder of a non-profit ), was offered an opportunity to train 78 hospital psychologists in a 3rd world country. The trainees are supposed to learn on how to tackle and treat a social issue in a span of 3 months.

        For the sake of a $300k fund for the project, he agreed despite knowing how much he lacks in resources and expertise. But he was armed with a firm belief that successful projects are always 90% planning and 10 % implementation.

        The planning was done to the minutest details from a couple of hot brain-sailing sessions. ... lol

        The outcome of the project was almost flawless. The funder was happy, the trainees were happy and the gov was happy. The name of the non-profit blossom forth internationally. Since then, they've trained hundreds of foreign trainees in their facilities.

        ----- end ----

        From the 2 stories, strategic planning is not just about the success of current ventures, it is also about FUTURE GROWTH. Because the quality of outcome are always better, thus builds reputation.

        Strategic Planning -> Quality Outcome -> Good Reputation -> Future Growth -> More $$$
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  • Profile picture of the author Juan L Costa
    I agree with most of the posts above.

    The problem with IM is that most people approach it in the wrong way, I.E as an easy solution to money problems.
    Online business differs from traditional business only in the medium that is done, but all the principles still apply, and many people who fail forget that.

    I have always thought that many things considered "hot" in Internet Marketing are not a real business, for example affiliate marketing.
    If you are an affiliate, you don't have any control whatsoever in none of the phases that a business has; I.E selling, delivering and costumer support. From my point of view, if someone doesn't have control on any of those aspects then that person doesn't have a business.
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  • Profile picture of the author grover69
    Most people lack the focus and drive necessary to make it. And I admit that I can be guilty of this as well. You have to wake up and really have a "go for it" attitude in this game. While I can joke around and say that I make money online even while I'm on vacation, I worked hard when I wasn't on vacation to get to that point.
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      Originally Posted by grover69 View Post

      Most people lack the focus and drive necessary to make it.
      In my I experience I find this isn't really true. What I do find is that they don't really know how to focus their efforts properly. A subtle difference maybe, but nonetheless a true one.

      A lot of what happens in terms of IM failures boils down to a lack of experience, training and education in management.

      Bear in mind that most people who get into IM are doing so because they need money - lots of it. I think it's a safe bet to say that most of these folks have offline jobs that are not management related or are low-level management.

      When's the last time you saw a CEo, COO, CFO, etc., visiting the forum to ask about IM?

      Focus, drive, patience, etc., do not come naturally to people. Just as a top manager in the brick and mortar world has developed these qualities, so do those getting into IM need to.

      And early on in their IM career they tend to focus on studying the wrong things. They don't improve technical skills, they don't improve business and management knowledge...they just focus on the marketing aspect, which is just one component of a much larger system.
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  • Profile picture of the author joedirt
    im an average person and its not working for me....but im still here keeping faith.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I don't think there's any "one" reason. However, the 95% number is pretty close to the same estimate for off-line businesses, so I'll assume the reasons are fairly similar.

    And the Number 1 reason is off-line businesses fail is lack of cash flow. IM takes more money and more time than people realize and if you don't have money coming in, most people can only go so long.

    I also believe discipline is a big reason. You don't "have to" do anything today. You don't "have to" do anything tomorrow. No one is telling you there's a deadline.

    When I first started IM, I tried to get friends to join me on a big project. I sold everyone of them on the idea. But when the first required meeting/function came up, each were no-shows. They didn't consider it a requirement that they actually had to do something. But I "fired" each of them. They got mad and I lost a lot of friends early on, but business is business and I didn't like their idea of a partnership where I did all the work and then we split the money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Matt Ward
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      IM takes more money and more time than people realize and if you don't have money coming in, most people can only go so long.

      I also believe discipline is a big reason. You don't "have to" do anything today. You don't "have to" do anything tomorrow. No one is telling you there's a deadline.
      This post hits the nail on the head completely, as far as I'm concerned.

      Unless you're lucky or have someone hold your hand and show you exactly what to do, you will likely take a very long time before you start to see any kind of substantial revenue being generated from your efforts. It is incredibly demoralizing to put in a ton of work and see no results whatsoever, which is very likely to happen for a newcomer to the IM world.

      I worked online daily for almost an entire month before I made a single penny, and I was just about at my limit. I'm think a lot of people quit long before that, but then again, we do see posts here from people talking about their "first sale in 2 years" or similar, which is commendable.

      What you said about discipline is also 100% spot on. It takes a certain kind of person to be their own boss, and not everyone can do it. This problem is compounded for most people, because they work a 9-5 job and are trying to break into IM on the side, so there's nothing forcing you to sit there for 8 hours and hammer out a website, or what have you. Not to mention that since you're working online, all of the distractions like Youtube, Facebook, games, etc are right there alongside your work tools...
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      • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
        Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post


        And then something occurred to me and I thought, "Wait a minute - where do newcomers to IM usually learn it from in the first place? From other Internet Marketers of course, through info products, seminars, coaching and so forth."

        Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post


        A lot of folks think they're in business online, but in reality, they're working primarily for others. That's not to imply they don't make any money at it, but in the strictest sense of the word, it's not really a business. I say this because their so-called business model relies entirely on third parties to be successful.

        Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post


        Forget the big score, quit trying to monetize every breath you take and start thinking long-term. Make everything you do today focus on giving you some sort of tangible ROI Return On Investment) for years to come.

        Most people exposed to the possibility of IM or any marketing usually gets it from 2 sources:

        One is the copywriting. The legitimate business owner/planner who are successful are usually drowned out by the glut of hype artist, they don't need it, so their message gets buried.

        "How I made $100,000 in 20 minutes" is the bulk of what you are introduced to and what you will have to swim thru and filter to get at the truth. Some are quick learners and find out this is hype and some take a long time to figure it out, and some quit or never learn what a REAL BUSINESS ONLINE is.

        The other way is the traditional brick and mortar business, which usually tells you that you need loans, lots of start up capital, bankers and such to get started.

        The problem is also that some of these "hype" artist make some income over the period , gain a reputation and are considered guru's, yet, they have NEVER done anything that their course teaches and score big sometimes and sometimes struggle to make money until their next hype fest, this can go on for years, all the while, they are contributing to the MIS-EDUCATION of would be entrepreneurs.

        Because they constantly blast people with "the big score" mentality, one thinks that is the definition of online marketing, and if you are not doing that, you are failing.

        Also, you learn that there is nothing wrong with quick start up projects to get income as fast as possible, but you learn this is not a sustainable business model, and working on the sustainable type model will really make things more easier in the future, than the quick buck-fast income type projects.

        I somewhat disagree about "working for 3rd parties" , like being an affiliate marketer , if done correctly.

        Just like a salesperson who works for a company, some , a few, of these have tremendous leverage over the company, because some or most of their customers are loyal to the salesperson sometimes, not necessarily the company, providing that salesperson is offering continued value after the sale.

        That salesperson can threaten or actually jump ship to either another company offering a more competitive package, or start their own business, because the salesperson owns the customers and customers define a business, above all else.

        An affiliate marketer who takes cares of his customers/List, continually providing some amount of free value after the sale, he can usually steer them in any direction and continually make profit, provided he offers them continued value, not only will his customers STAY with him for years, he will always be growing his customer base with new customers, making him even more profit.

        Constantly needing NEW customers and finding new gigs are for those who can't hold customers, whether its because they are scammers, give bad value and service or simply not in tune with what the customers wants.

        KEEPING customers is one of the pillars of the sustainable business model and is usually a lost point in internet marketing products, this is at least the top 2 or 3 point for any business , whether online or not, to have a profitable and sustainable future.

        The other top 2 or 3 points to have a sustainable business model is the #1 product ALL customers want and sometimes, usually need, and that product, which you don't have to buy from anyone or even have any skill at producing is TRUST.

        TRUST is THE product most missing from both businesses and education of business to would be entrepreneurs.

        The 13th Warrior
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  • Profile picture of the author PatrickP
    Often times People are fat because they can't stick with a diet/exercise program
    Often times People fail out of college because they can't stick with a study program
    Often times People fail at business because they can't stick to a program

    People who stick to these programs often are thinner, healthier, more educated and richer than those who do not.
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  • Profile picture of the author DebbieD
    IM is not as easy as most people think and we all (most), at one time or another, made the same mistake of jumping from one program to another. Most of us (those that are finally making money), though, realized that we need to stay focused and do one method at a time until we master that and make money.

    That said, I think that the sales letters promoting "easy money", "work in your pajamas", "autopilot income", "make millions online","make money while you sleep" - all confirm the idea that IM is as easy as pie.
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      Originally Posted by DebbieD View Post

      IM is not as easy as most people think and we all (most), at one time or another, made the same mistake of jumping from one program to another. Most of us (those that are finally making money), though, realized that we need to stay focused and do one method at a time until we master that and make money.

      That said, I think that the sales letters promoting "easy money", "work in your pajamas", "autopilot income", "make millions online","make money while you sleep" - all confirm the idea that IM is as easy as pie.
      This will sound odd, but I agree and disagree. What I mean is that, yes, IM is harder than all the "easy money" pitches make it out to be, and people (like myself) do tend to make the mistake of jumping around a lot from one biz model to another without getting momentum.

      On the other hand, the sense in which I disagree, is that I know I'm not alone in the tendency to think things I don't know yet, (especially of a technical nature), are going to be hard to master, and once I finally get around to learning them, I almost always find that they aren't nearly as hard or complex as I imagined.

      For me, and I believe lots of people, one of the biggest challenges in getting to the next stage, is to stop making things more complicated than they are. IM seems to be one of those areas where your beliefs can often be a self-fulfilling prophesy.

      Of course the flip side is that the "easy button" sales copy sets people up to be overwhelmed and disappointed when it takes more than a few minutes to master a new skill, and perhaps you have to go back and master pre-requisite skills they forgot to tell you about, or assumed you had. The tendency to overwhelm yourself with thinking about the entire journey, instead of just taking it one step at a time seems pretty common.

      Therefore, I would say that, for most of us it's both harder than we hope (when we're reading sales copy that stimulates dreams of easy money), and easier than we fear.
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  • Profile picture of the author spideysteve
    Wow Mike

    Some pretty awesome thoughts there.

    And lots of great thoughts throughout this thread.

    One thing people might benefit from is to break things down, into a Work Breakdown Structure (WBS). We use this in Project Management at the start of each project, as it helps you break down your project (ie, in this case, building your online business) into smaller, more manageable parts. Once all the parts (tasks) are completed, you've accomplished what you set out to do, but all parts need to be completed 100% in order for the whole to be done. I think that if people were to break down their goals of building their business into pieces, it would really relieve them of the "overwhelmed" feeling that people tend to get.
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  • Profile picture of the author TommyHaynes
    Very awsome thread.I'll never make it cuz my attitude is terrible. But very well written.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I also believe discipline is a big reason. You don't "have to" do anything today. You don't "have to" do anything tomorrow. No one is telling you there's a deadline.
      Look at the way the "Internet lifestyle" is portrayed, in sales letters and infomercials. Especially infomercials. The focus is on the whole 'no one telling you what to do' and 'do whatever you want while the money still rolls in' message. They leave out the whole 'gotta build the house before you can move in' part.

      It's tailor-made for the undisciplined.

      And an almost certain failure.
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  • Profile picture of the author buckeyedave
    Good post BIG Mike, too many are looking for the riches advertised in the quick rich programs that don't come true. The only one making that kind of money is the guy selling the make money program. Most of us grind it out 40 hours a week and either don't want to or feel they can't spend the time to build a business slowly.

    I am only beginning in IM this time to do it right but I will be the first to admit that I am guilty of what I stated above. I have looked for that magic plan that is never there.

    Thanks,
    Dave
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    • Profile picture of the author FriendlyRob
      I personally believe that it is because people are afraid to invest. Just like any business, it takes capital to operate. Of course, it is possible to be successful with no financial investment, but it takes a lot more work and commitment.
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      • Profile picture of the author scottmanesis
        Originally Posted by FriendlyRob View Post

        I personally believe that it is because people are afraid to invest. Just like any business, it takes capital to operate. Of course, it is possible to be successful with no financial investment, but it takes a lot more work and commitment.
        That is the biggest problem that I think most marketers have when they get started. They don't put the right value on the worth of their time. When you have to do EVERYTHING, create campaigns, websites, auto responders, video production (content creations) drive all the traffic, do all the split testing and measuring......it's daunting and you will find that if you are the one who thinks they can get away with doing everything, you are going to find that your hourly rate is pretty darn low. BUT if you pick a thing or two that you ARE good at, and outsource the things that you are not at ...typically the ROI is much greater.

        Business people who think like business people understand the concept of ROI. For many especially in IM, this concept goes totally over their head and they think that it is a good investment to try to learn and DO everything to save a few bucks upfront....that rarely works....not saying it never works because there is always an exception.

        If you think about it logically and lets say you pick a target market that another marketer has picked. One person outsources and one person does it all. Who is going to dominate the niche quicker? The guy who can pay right now to have a designer design the site, article writers to write the content, submitters to submit the content and someone else to build back links and drive traffic...what chance do you stand when these things are being automated by your competition while you are sitting there scratching your head trying to get your website up and offer created?

        The honest answer is very little. Just like the guy who picks one method like Video marketing for example, you might make awesome videos......great! You might have an awesome offer....great...the guy/girl who uses a tool that he/she invested in like traffic geyser for example that posts their video to 30 something video channels, another 100 or so article directoriies and social bookmarking sites with a single upload is going to minimize your free marketing every single time putting you at a great disadvantage and basically making it a waste of your time.

        The ones who have the most success understand LEVERAGE above all things. Would you rather have 1 percent of the efforts of 100 or 100 percent of the efforts of 1?

        The lone soldier mentality is the biggest downfall that I see marketers make.
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  • Profile picture of the author blillard
    This is an awesome thread right here. This could ne the missing piece to every course sold online. I feel like most course forget all about the mindset needed in order to succeed. They talk only about the method, but should also show you that its baby step to the the top. If you think about it, you can see why they never talk about the struggle there because they're selling you the whole picture, not the plan of action that needs be put forth in order to make it to big screen in IM. I didn't make anything until I changed my mindset and stopped expecting the world in one day.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Good post Mike... at first glance when I read your headline I thought it said WHY I'M A BAD IDEA FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON

    LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      Good post Mike... at first glance when I read your headline I thought it said WHY I'M A BAD IDEA FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON

      LOL
      I wondered if anyone would pick up on that, LOL...
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    • Profile picture of the author DynoMutt
      The OP has me thinking about the people on this site who have numerous WSOs on their hard drive, and they're still on the lookout to purchase their next one. I've seen reviews posted by WFers who have previously purchased WSOs from the same person who's selling a new one. In the back of my mind I'm thinking, 'I hope you're already making money and just looking for a new route to add to your arsenal.'

      I'm sure you guys have noticed but the Warrior Special Offers Forum, which is the most viewed sub-forum, has 3 - 4x the amount of views as the next highest one, which is Main Internet Marketing Discussion Forum. It seems like most people on this site are here to buy. The numbers reveal that if you want to make money, create a WSO. And I think this is what is part of the problem the OP is talking about. It's easy to make a quick buck off of people who may be desperate to make money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kelle54To
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    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author magnates
      Great post ... I am still a bit guilty of buying info product after the other . This year so far i have bought 8 . But Have unsubscribed from other people list and focus on my agenda not their for now .

      In my first year with IM ,There are lots of ebooks i have bought and not read or done anything with . I wanted to know everything there is to know about the exciting world of IM . Was a big mistake . I got divided . I kept on spending money on something that promises to make me money forgetting what was making me money in the real world right now.

      Thanks Big Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Mike, I know that I'm nowhere near your favorite person on this forum (Mike
        and I have had more than our share of knock down, drag outs) but your post
        is excellent advice for the framework of starting a business. If more people
        did this, and didn't jump from one thing to another, more people might be
        successful.

        I say might because it brings me to the other point that several people have
        touched on.

        It has been said by some that the fault is the student's for being lazy.

        It has also been said that the fault is the info being given to the student.

        The truth is, there is more than enough blame to go around...for everybody.

        Some of the info out there, and coaches, is downright dreadful. I'll leave it
        at that. Conversely, some people out there are beyond lazy. They can't
        even take the time to open the ebook let alone use it. Some just have no
        work ethic.

        But then there is something else that I've been saying for years that, for
        whatever reason, very few people agree with.

        The general consensus seems to be that ANYBODY can run a home business.

        Truth is, there are some people who couldn't run a lemonade stand let
        alone run a home business. They don't have the smarts. I'm not talking
        about book learned smarts either. I'm talking about something that you
        can't learn from a book or a coach.

        In short...it's the intelligence to run a business, or if you like, the mental
        capacity. Their brains just don't work in a way that will allow them to
        independently make the decisions required to run a successful business.

        The only chance these people have to run a successful business is to throw
        money at somebody who DOES have the brains and let THEM run it.

        But then we run into the problem of finding somebody who we can trust
        and actually knows how to run a business themselves.

        Ah...money. That's another problem. Like it or not, running a very successful
        business requires at least some expenditure. Some people are so poor that
        they can just about afford their Internet connection and don't have the
        kind of collateral required to get a loan.

        And I'm not talking about a lot of money. I never spend more than a couple
        hundred a month on advertising, if that. But thinking that you can run a
        business on $9.95 a month is simply fooling yourself.

        So add it all up, laziness, bad info, mental ineptitude and no money and
        you've got more than enough to contribute to most people's failures.

        I recognized these things (finally) after my first 5 months where I made all
        of $28 and realized what I had to do. And trust me, it wasn't easy.

        For starters, I absolutely HAD to find a reliable source for information.
        Fortunately, I was able to do that relatively cheap. Yes, I was lucky and
        truth be told, had I not found that source, I probably would have never
        succeeded. I honestly had NO idea what I was doing.

        After I found the source and learned what I HAD to do, I then forced myself
        into a work ethic that allowed me to do it. Some of you are probably well
        aware of my 14 hour work days that are now, thankfully, behind me.

        I also realized that I had to spend money. So I did. My ad expenses after
        my first 5 months (I had spent nothing previously, trying to do it all for free)
        were about $200 a month. I slowly worked my way up to a $1,500 a month
        income just from that.

        I then wrote content...tons of it. It took time, but eventually, that content
        and building a list, brought me to mid 4 figures.

        I then created more products and more and more. I worked harder and
        harder. I had the info, I had a plan, I had the work ethic. I just had to put
        it all into action.

        I worked my tail off for years.

        But I had all the things I talked about above. I wasn't missing even one
        aspect. That was why I succeeded.

        Maybe you can get by with one of them missing, but quite honestly, I
        don't see how, though the money part is probably the last one on the list.

        Given everything else (the info, work ethic and mental capacity) you can
        probably run a successful business on the cheap, at least to start. But
        eventually, if you REALLY want to expand, you're going to have to start
        investing in something. What that something is will depend on your
        business model.

        But the point is, those pointing the blame at the info or the student are
        looking at this whole thing with a very myopic view. If it was just one
        thing, this IM thing would be a lot easier. But it's not because it's not just
        ONE THING.

        I learned that 8 years ago when I was out of work, almost homeless, and
        at the end of my rope

        Hopefully, somebody reading this now, somebody who needs to, will learn
        it now.

        Before it's too late.
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        • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Mike, I know that I'm nowhere near your favorite person on this forum (Mike
          and I have had more than our share of knock down, drag outs) but your post
          is excellent advice for the framework of starting a business.
          Awe...I still love you brother
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      • Profile picture of the author simonpieman
        The original post was very good and hit on some important points (that we already probably knew but needed reminding of). However it seems thread is starting to sound a little like a bunch of old hacks guarding their ground...not completely but a little.

        Far be it form a fresh face 'probably never make it' newbie to comment but it seems the internet is a radically different model to 'bricks and mortar' business. It democratises the 'price of entry'. Yes this is also a problem and resulsts in a lot of people testing the waters and then dropping out. But at least they haven't taken out a loan to buy a shop. To this extent there is also more flexibility as to what scale you want to take the business. i.e if you are going to the lengths of buying premises for a shop then you are, by default, locked into taking the business to a certain level of earnings- or else you won't be able to pay the rent/mortgage. Buying a web hosting account doesn't force you into that kind of position.

        Another thing that strikes me is that there are a lot of assumptions in the 'IM' world about what 'making it' involves. It seems to always be the same cliche of '6 figures a month' money pouring out of your ears or else nothing.

        What about a modest income - say $1900 per month from a good solid 10 hours per week once the ball was rolling? What about people who are able to stand and think for themselves- are ready to take on the risks of not being in a 'job'- but aren't interested in being 'big-shots'.

        Damn- if someone had pitched me a sales letter along those lines rather than promising me 6 figures a month I might have got started sooner. If they had also told me that many of the 'IM' bussiness models are actually about being a 'content publisher' - and that many models (at least SEO targeting ones) involve spending a good part of your day WRITING then I would have been even keener.

        So a lot of times the teacher can be blamed - but you work it out in the end. It also seems that people are taught to think they automatically do want 6 figures a month when they don't want OR need this.
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        • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
          Originally Posted by simonpieman View Post

          The original post was very good and hit on some important points (that we already probably knew but needed reminding of). However it seems thread is starting to sound a little like a bunch of old hacks guarding their ground...not completely but a little.
          This old hack can remember when i had 5 people on my list and 3 of them were me from testing the form. The new guys coming up seem to think us old hacks didnt start from the same place they did.
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        • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
          Banned
          What about a modest income - say $1900 per month from a good solid 10 hours per week once the ball was rolling? What about people who are able to stand and think for themselves- are ready to take on the risks of not being in a 'job'- but aren't interested in being 'big-shots'.
          If you want to earn an income, but don't really want to start a business online, and work just a few hours a week, then focus on things like affiliate marketing, CPA, Adsense, etc.

          There are plenty of basic opportunities out there you can start earning from almost immediately, if you've got the technical know how (SEO and Traffic Generation) to pull it off.

          That model tends to require an ongoing effort to maintain it, but after a while, you should be able to outsource a lot of your work and just manage it.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    This is a great post and reminder.

    I coach people, and I have several students that have had massive success. most of them have quit their jobs. They thank me and send me gifts, but realistically, its them that did the hard work. I notice they are not the ones who say it is hard work, they just wake up and have that "GIT ER DONE" mentality.

    The students of mine that have done well, think, act and react differently, So i know where mike is coming from.

    Success will come, and you can chant as many times as you want into the wind that you will be a millionaire. But if you dont put the hard work in and face reality that you have to do this, and take massive action you are kidding yourself.

    I have always liked that saying 'actions breeds results' and nothing can be more further from the truth.

    But this is a good reminder for many people out there. Thank BIG M.
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    • Profile picture of the author fifersred
      Well - it is probably true the average person wants to make money quickly.

      Personally think that you have to enjoy what you are doing and not be rushing to make money for the sake of making money.
      When you start rushing you begin to lose the point - and indeed you creativity.

      Learning IM strategies is a whole bunch of fun and can be likened to a game of chess: there are so many ways and moves to go on the offensive if you can just get your own creative juices flowing, or you can end up like a robot - checkmated all the time
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by celente View Post

        Success will come, and you can chant as many times as you want into the wind that you will be a millionaire. But if you dont put the hard work in and face reality that you have to do this, and take massive action you are kidding yourself.
        A friend of mine liked to quote what he credited as a Quaker proverb to folks who believed just "wanting it enough" was good enough...

        "When you pray, move your feet."
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        • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
          Banned
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          A friend of mine liked to quote what he credited as a Quaker proverb to folks who believed just "wanting it enough" was good enough...

          "When you pray, move your feet."
          There's a Greek story about a man named Spiros who would constantly get down on his knees and pray to God asking, "Please Lord, won't you let me win the Lottery?" He would do this several times a day and continued for years.

          One day, God just couldn't take it any more so he answered Spiros, shouting thunderously, "Spiros! Buy a damn Lottery ticket!"
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  • Profile picture of the author Monikacis
    Yes i also think so, but Internet Marketing is also providing a great business to many people. If the people would have more technically expert and keep a focused view then its far much easy to stay and sustain in the online world.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMWinner
    Although the Internet Marketing business gave opportunities to other people to earn some decent 4 - 5 figures of money, truth is, the IM world is not for everyone.
    I totally 100% agree with what you said, it's a bad idea for any average person who doesn't have the patience, perseverance and hard work for this job. It is always a misconception to most of the people that they have this assumption that when a person decides to do Internet Marketing, it is instant money to them. It is a big NO, since doing business, especially in the IM business, it is only money are to be invested. You have to commit your time, focus, work ethic and hard work to reach what other people who are successful in this business has attained.
    Since I could say that I am also guilty, when I started in the IM business, I was loaded with so much information and ideas on how to make money online that I lost the focus which and what technique should I do first. It's like with so many options to choose from, I don't know where and what to start. It resulted that I tried to do two or three task at the same time, and no result was made.
    Lessons learned, and now, I have been focusing on the niche that I am interested with and I really love to do. (Although it's not yet earning that much, but at least it's a start)
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  • Profile picture of the author Crystal_Jobs
    Mike, you are right.

    This is exactly what I have come to understand about Internet businesses generally.

    So how can you adapt to doing this...developing a sustainable business online that will last a lifetime? The answer is a simple one - you need to start at the beginning, taking stock of yourself and your resources and then formulate a plan. You need to do this honestly and objectively - keep your emotions out of it.

    Forget the big score, quit trying to monetize every breath you take and start thinking long-term. Make everything you do today focus on giving you some sort of tangible ROI Return On Investment) for years to come. I do this more or less every day and it pays off astronomically well!
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  • Profile picture of the author Debra Barrow
    The technical aspect of IM can throw people off. They don't realize how much technical knowledge you need or must be willing to learn .....then frustration sets in. When I started I didn't know much about building websites or seo, and I'm still learning.

    Even with 95% failing online, I'm motivated by the other 5%.
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Debra Barrow View Post

      The technical aspect of IM can throw people off. They don't realize how much technical knowledge you need or must be willing to learn .....then frustration sets in. When I started I didn't know much about building websites or seo, and I'm still learning.

      Even with 95% failing online, I'm motivated by the other 5%.
      This also why, in addition to a business plan, they need to develop an "Education Plan", to fill in the gaps.

      I'm pretty sure that anyone who remembers just starting out, they had a lot of time on their hands. Usually more time than money - so it's the ideal time to focus on developing skills that will remain with them for the rest of their life.
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  • Profile picture of the author Karen Connell
    After over 3 years of writing content for others I have recently decided that the time is right to venture into the world of IM.

    I spent a lot of time learning how to do the technical stuff (well, some of it...) and reading all sorts of freebies. I have recently bought quite a few WSO's looking for the perfect plan and can tell you that 75% of them are rubbish - but with great sales copy. It seems that everyone (and his dog) are following the advice of some of the WSO's and throwing together a WSO of their own from research rather than personal experience.

    How many newbies begin their IM career by advertising 'how to make a gazillion dollars in 3 minutes', or some other ridiculous claim, in their sig - and most of them have yet to make a dime.

    The only actionable WSO (for me) was from ShayRockhold and it involved 'offline' stuff and I have followed that through and am making a nice income from that one method. Not a passive income but interesting and sustainable, which is exactly what I wanted.

    Now I am looking at which method to try next.

    The 3 P's make a good IMer in my opinion:

    P - Planning
    P - Patience
    P - Persistance

    ...and in that order.

    Also required to be a successful IMer is W.O.R.K. which a lot of newbies have yet to realise. People see the hype, with words like 'overnight' 'instant' and 'push button' and think that it is that easy - well, let me tell you that it's not, it takes effort to be successful.

    Karen
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Sorrell
      It's because the average person spends their evenings watching professional morons on reality tv shows and thinks hey 'they don't have a job or a business but they're raking it in' and the something for nothing mentality sets in.

      It's no wonder that a lot of western countries are lagging massively behind asian countries both economically and educationally. You get a generation of people brought up on watching fantasy laden tv garbage vs a generation who get brought up to learn that hard work is a good thing and that if you're not willing to bust a gut then you risk starvation, and take a guess on which generation is going to get further in the end?

      Anything that involves work, creativity and planning is bad for any average person because of the very fact that they're average in the first place.
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  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    Its daunting and very lonely trying to do this business by yourself and in front of a computer. Add to that the fact a lot of people have zero html skills wordpress skills FTP skills, really knowing windows and files etc, I think it takes a lot longer to get the hang of than people want to admit, You have to be a self starter and most people need someone to tell them what to do
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  • Profile picture of the author uebomoyi
    You are so right, you have to have a certain mindset to succeed in IM and I never realized how far you have to stretch your patience as well as your work ethic in order to succeed. At the end of the day though, it is well worth it for those who stick with IM and do what's required in order to succeed.
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  • Profile picture of the author jgant
    I couldn't agree more. It's odd because I fell into MMO through creating websites for my offline business and then doing SEO for those sites. When I started creating sites for my offline business, I was in it for the long haul. I didn't expect any returns for at least 6 months. I kept plugging away building up the sites and building traffic. Sure enough, after 200 plus posts, loads of keyword research and backlinking weekly, my offline business took off. It took 6 to 12 months to see real results.

    Then, when I discovered making money online, I had the mindset I could print money in a month. Nothing could be more ridiculous, and I had by that time learned some SEO and how to create websites. After jumping around for a bit, I decided it was time to apply the same long term business approach to my online business as my offline business.

    The result: within 8 months I was earning about half what my offline business was generating in income.

    Now I approach my online business as a business and have short term and long term goals including diversifying traffic sources and expanding monetization. But, and this took me longer than it should have to learn, quality content is absolutely critical. I'm equally pleased to receive a kind email praising my content from readers as I am to see sales. In the long run grateful readers will sustain and build an online business.
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    • Profile picture of the author danocha
      As someone who is truly a fresh face in the IM community. I have first hand recent experience with the tail chasing, Then my mentor had me step back and look at what I really wanted to achieve with my online business. The result is we are going for long term ROI knowing that I am in it for the sustainability and not the get rich quick mentality.

      Thank you for the post as it will always remind me of the strategy of thinking things through first and setting a plan down, I find myself putting a lot of my ideas on paper then transferring to the computer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jordan Stark
    Awesome post. I know that this will hit home for a lot of newbies.
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      One of the best business decisions I ever made was getting a mentor.

      He isn't even in IM. He is very successful in the "real world" of business. He's dealt with start ups - real-world businesses - and he's good at what he does.

      He is also a very good friend.

      He doesn't know the first thing about "Internet Marketing," per se - he deals with creating profitable businesses. Why did I ask him to be my mentor? Because I want a highly profitable business. I want to make 6 figures this year.

      90 days ago, we had our first "meeting" - online, because he lives across the country. He wanted:

      1. An overview of what I was doing now - income, activities, products, etc.

      2. My 30-day goals - and how I planned on getting there.

      3. My six-month goal - and how I planned on getting there.

      I also agreed to:

      1. Talk with him before buying any tool for my business - WSO, software, etc. I have to explain what it does and how I think it'll help me. (He's never vetoed my desire to buy something, but just knowing I have to justify it makes me sure that if I buy something, it's worthwhile.)

      2. Talk to him if I need to deviate from the plan. Example: I had an unexpected expense come up recently. In addition to my regular income, I needed an additional $1300 in seven days. I called him, explained the issue, explained my plan to make the additional revenue, and he approved the plan.

      I made my goal.

      3. Discuss my 30-day goals for each month, before the first of the month. If he doesn't think I'm stretching myself enough, he'll raise my goal.

      Since doing this, my business has exploded. And it's not even that he's giving suggestions (although he does sometimes). It's the accountability. I have to have my plans laid out. I have to articulate them.

      I think if more people approached IM as a true business, there would be a higher percentage of success.

      But most people chase the magic button. They don't want to work hard for a year or two so they can reap the benefits for a lifetime.

      JMHO and YMMV
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      • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
        Banned
        Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

        1. Talk with him before buying any tool for my business - WSO, software, etc. I have to explain what it does and how I think it'll help me. (He's never vetoed my desire to buy something, but just knowing I have to justify it makes me sure that if I buy something, it's worthwhile.)

        2. Talk to him if I need to deviate from the plan. Example: I had an unexpected expense come up recently. In addition to my regular income, I needed an additional $1300 in seven days. I called him, explained the issue, explained my plan to make the additional revenue, and he approved the plan.
        These two items are priceless!

        One of the most successful people I've mentored started out the same way. I remember how much his wife and family would get on his case about spending so much online in IM and he was always jumping into something new without finishing the last thing.

        Once we hooked up, I literally slammed the buying door shut on him. If he wanted something, he'd have to justify it first and what he learned from that is that he wasn't really justifying it to me, but himself. I was forcing him to be accountable for his actions.

        It's amazing how bouncing a purchasing decision off a third party can teach you to think objectively rather than emotionally.

        And I love the bit about discussing deviating from the plan! The same fellow I mentioned had a bad habit of running off in six different directions...combined with his purchasing habits, it was holding him back from accomplishing anything.

        These days he'll run the occasional idea by me just to use me as a sounding board, but over the years he's learned to stop and carefully think through all of the pros and cons of his choices. He's learned to take greed and emotionalism out of the equation and focus objectively on his ability to implement and maintain new ideas without losing ground on the old ones.

        Based on our brief PM conversation the other day Shay, there's no doubt in my mind that you will accomplish anything you set out to do
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        • Profile picture of the author PatrickP
          Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

          These two items are priceless!

          OT I was going to register to be an affiliate for your product until that annoying 'Like Me' pop up came up. I wanted to read more and fill out my info so you could contact me but it really turned me off.

          Just something you may want to think about.
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          • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
            Banned
            Originally Posted by PatrickP View Post

            OT I was going to register to be an affiliate for your product until that annoying 'Like Me' pop up came up. I wanted to read more and fill out my info so you could contact me but it really turned me off.

            Just something you may want to think about.
            Well, I hoped you clicked on it

            So you're saying that you allowed your emotions to interfere with an opportunity to make some unbelievably easy cash?

            That's more or less what this thread is all about

            That "Annoying" LikeMe popup loads about 5 seconds after the page does and unloads 10 seconds later whether you click it or not. And it's certainly transparent enough to read the text in the background.

            This is one of the key points I was trying to get across in this thread - it's just business dude. You allowed a little DHTML popup to emotionally drive you away from a (really easy) moneymaking opportunity and would rather come here and waste time posting about it, earning, well nothing.

            I'm not going to think about it or change it - if that means you don't want to be an affiliate, oh well, that's your loss.

            It certainly didn't annoy the hundred or so other affiliates who saw it and signed up, or if it did, they were patient enough to sit through it to reach their goal. And as a result, a bunch of them are making money on their 10 seconds of patience.

            I know I'm being a bit of a hardass here, but really? I didn't put that popup there to annoy you - it's there because it demonstrates the product. That's what you would be promoting to others and if your gut feeling is that it's just annoying, you really shouldn't become an affiliate.

            So in a positive sense, it's a great way to "Pre-Vet" affiliates as well I guess
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      • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
        Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

        One of the best business decisions I ever made was getting a mentor.

        He isn't even in IM. He is very successful in the "real world" of business. He's dealt with start ups - real-world businesses - and he's good at what he does.

        He is also a very good friend.

        He doesn't know the first thing about "Internet Marketing," per se - he deals with creating profitable businesses. Why did I ask him to be my mentor? Because I want a highly profitable business. I want to make 6 figures this year.

        90 days ago, we had our first "meeting" - online, because he lives across the country. He wanted:

        1. An overview of what I was doing now - income, activities, products, etc.

        2. My 30-day goals - and how I planned on getting there.

        3. My six-month goal - and how I planned on getting there.

        I also agreed to:

        1. Talk with him before buying any tool for my business - WSO, software, etc. I have to explain what it does and how I think it'll help me. (He's never vetoed my desire to buy something, but just knowing I have to justify it makes me sure that if I buy something, it's worthwhile.)

        2. Talk to him if I need to deviate from the plan. Example: I had an unexpected expense come up recently. In addition to my regular income, I needed an additional $1300 in seven days. I called him, explained the issue, explained my plan to make the additional revenue, and he approved the plan.

        I made my goal.

        3. Discuss my 30-day goals for each month, before the first of the month. If he doesn't think I'm stretching myself enough, he'll raise my goal.

        Since doing this, my business has exploded. And it's not even that he's giving suggestions (although he does sometimes). It's the accountability. I have to have my plans laid out. I have to articulate them.

        I think if more people approached IM as a true business, there would be a higher percentage of success.

        But most people chase the magic button. They don't want to work hard for a year or two so they can reap the benefits for a lifetime.

        JMHO and YMMV
        I agree with Mike-this is a stellar post, and with the attitude you have, and the support, I too think you'll achieve your objectives.

        If you haven't already done so, I would suggest you consider running a Warroom offer, and then later a WSO on what you did to achieve your emergency expense cash, assuming it was something others could do. I know you'd have to run it by your mentor, but if it fits, it could be a cash cow, and list building dynamo for you. Best of all, it would be based on actual experience, not pulled out of the air like some WSO ideas.
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        • Profile picture of the author ShayB
          Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

          These two items are priceless!

          One of the most successful people I've mentored started out the same way. I remember how much his wife and family would get on his case about spending so much online in IM and he was always jumping into something new without finishing the last thing.

          --snip--

          And I love the bit about discussing deviating from the plan! The same fellow I mentioned had a bad habit of running off in six different directions...combined with his purchasing habits, it was holding him back from accomplishing anything.

          --snip--

          These days he'll run the occasional idea by me just to use me as a sounding board, but over the years he's learned to stop and carefully think through all of the pros and cons of his choices. He's learned to take greed and emotionalism out of the equation and focus objectively on his ability to implement and maintain new ideas without losing ground on the old ones.

          Based on our brief PM conversation the other day Shay, there's no doubt in my mind that you will accomplish anything you set out to do
          Thank you so much for the kind words. *blushes*

          I also have an incredible case of ADD. My natural tendency is to jump from one thing to the other. I have the attention span of a mosquito, in a lot of aspects.

          Giving authority to a mentor was a huge step for me, because I'm also very stubborn and hard headed. I like to do things my way, and I don't like to have restraints put on me.

          But I'm also smart enough to know that that can be a hindrance, and I don't know everything about everything. In order for me to achieve the kind of success that I want, I needed to ask for help - and then follow the advice that I was given.

          After doing this for 90 days, I can already tell a difference in the way I look at my business. I already walk myself mentally through the steps that I know that my mentor is going to.

          Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

          I agree with Mike-this is a stellar post, and with the attitude you have, and the support, I too think you'll achieve your objectives.

          If you haven't already done so, I would suggest you consider running a Warroom offer, and then later a WSO on what you did to achieve your emergency expense cash, assuming it was something others could do. I know you'd have to run it by your mentor, but if it fits, it could be a cash cow, and list building dynamo for you. Best of all, it would be based on actual experience, not pulled out of the air like some WSO ideas.
          Thank you! *blushes*

          I will probably write up some kind of a Hotsheet about it - probably just for the war room or something similar (if he approves, like you said ).

          While the actual method is not something that everyone could do (it was unique to my situation), the process of sitting down and evaluating what assets you have and how you can best utilize those to raise funds quickly would be the real benefit for something like this. It would be a very good idea generator for anyone who actually sit down with a notepad and jot notes about what ideas they got as they read along.

          And another note about the deviation from the plan:

          I was only allowed to deviate from the plan for the seven days. I wasn't allowed to let this emergency mess up my long-term plans. The agreement was that we would reevaluate at the end of the seven days and make adjustments as needed. If I had not reached my goal at the end of the seven days, then we would've gone to plan B (which I had already presented as a worst-case backup). As it was, it wasn't needed.

          Now that that crisis is over, I'm back to working the plan.
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    It's unfortunate but so many IMs are out to make a quick buck and then tell new recruits that they made it, that the new recruits don't realise that it's a cycle for many IMs, tell folks how you did it, folks buy your product, but then don't make any money from it, but you've already made the money from telling them how you did it, it gets to the point that becomes your main business, telling folks how you did it
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  • Profile picture of the author rowanman28
    I find that the harder I try to make money, the less I make. It's only if you enjoy what you're doing enough to stick at it every day for years that you get anywhere at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author davejug1
    I actually believe the 95% figure has been plucked out of the air, or more accurately it's been based on the number of people who have looked into it rather than tried it.

    I truly think that those who actually go ahead and give it some concerted effort are much more likely to succeed.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ansar Pasha
    Banned
    I made money online far before I knew what the Warrior Forum or "Ebooks" were...

    I agree with Istvan's point about coming to this with an employee mindset.

    I can instantly tell when people ask "how much will this make me", or "how much effort do I need to put into this" that they're the 95%ers who aren't going anywhere any time soon.

    ... But that said, it's not as easy as flicking on the "business owner mindset" like a switch.

    For me, it took a complete 180 in the terms I think of making money... leverage... risk... optimization... stuff that doesn't occur to Joe Blow who's buying the latest Kindle autopilot get rich quick with PLR sh** schemes.

    I don't want to leave without saying anything productive, so here's my advice: Stop buying internet marketing stuff and hit the library or book store for some real books on how real business is done in the real world.

    Ansar
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  • Profile picture of the author Tracey_Meagher
    Great post.

    Launching a business online and offline is probably one of the most stressful things you can do. It takes so many qualities .... imagination, commitment, perseverance, resilience, adaptability, specialized knowledge, great time management skills, focus, self-endurance, self-motivation, courage and a solid plan ... How many people come to a business with all of these skills? It's how quickly you learn to identify them and then master them that determines if a person will make a go of it or not.

    Most people stumble at the first hurdle, whether it's focus, skills ... whatever and then whimper off claiming this online stuff doesn't work. A small few stick it out long enough to jump enough hurdles to see results and it get's easier from there.

    It has taken me years just to master half of what I've listed above. Like any business, making money online is something of an endurance game.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marketing Ignite
    Big Mike
    I totally agree with what you say. I have been running and SEO business first from home since 1999 but now I have office and staff etc. What you tell me in your post is exactly in the line of what I have been doing all these years...Thinking long term and forget the fluff and distractions being focus on one thing is a big key. Many times ppl get caught up in the hype and the non real world.
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  • Profile picture of the author colinph970
    IM is no different to other forms of "work". the people who take it seriously and work hard at it will be successful. the only difference is that IM tends to attract the ones who think that making money is easy. It's not.....just calculate how much you are taxed on your income and then taxed on what remains over and over again. Making serious money is HARD WORK!
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  • Profile picture of the author WebPen
    Great stuff Mike!

    Besides bright-shiny-object syndrome, I also see the other side of the spectrum-

    People who don't want to learn, yet think the knowledge will just magically appear in their brain.

    The idea of making money from home sounds great, until they realize that they may have to learn something.

    My thinking is- if they aren't willing to learn, then they probably won't take action either.

    Between the people who get distracted all the time and those who just don't want to bother learning at all, it's no wonder why 95% of people who "try IM" never make a dime.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Tyler
    Inspiration,

    Very great post.
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author tedwood
    This thread has made me think about a few things. Currently my strategy is building many websites and utilizing SEO to get a good profit. I need to ask the question.

    Is this a viable business plan or am I just working for third parties?
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  • Profile picture of the author virtualprincipal
    As a lifelong educator with several college degrees, I must admit, I thought making money online would be MUCH easier than it is. I also jumped from one opportunity to the next for the first year and did poorly.

    However, my frustrations come from the unscrupulous nature of the business. Marketers believe there is easy money to be made because they are bombarded with professional sales letters and doctored Clickbank results videos that promise the moon. It is simply human nature to emotionally be drawn to such offers.

    I am certainly not lazy yet not very successful either after two years, clearing around $1200 dollars a month. And I can honestly say that I have not found one program that delivers what it promises and several contain outright lies.

    IM needs to be cleaned up. Then you will begin to see a much higher success rate...

    JSD
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      Originally Posted by virtualprincipal View Post

      As a lifelong educator with several college degrees, I must admit, I thought making money online would be MUCH easier than it is. I also jumped from one opportunity to the next for the first year and did poorly.

      However, my frustrations come from the unscrupulous nature of the business. Marketers believe there is easy money to be made because they are bombarded with professional sales letters and doctored Clickbank results videos that promise the moon. It is simply human nature to emotionally be drawn to such offers.

      I am certainly not lazy yet not very successful either after two years, clearing around $1200 dollars a month. And I can honestly say that I have not found one program that delivers what it promises and several contain outright lies.

      IM needs to be cleaned up. Then you will begin to see a much higher success rate...

      JSD
      Unless you have a secret plan for changing Human Nature, IM will never change. Ultimately, IM is no different than any kind of direct response marketing offliine (just less costly to implement and a broader reach).

      One of the key points to this thread is to forget about IM altogether. Take a step back from what you're currently doing and think about what you have experience with.

      As an educator, surely you must see the potential of the education market and have some insight as to the types of products and services you could be offering to that market. Not IM type info products, but genuine, high quality products and services that fulfill the basic needs of students at various levels.

      And don't forego the educators themselves - teachers all over the world are hungry for interactive online course materials that will supplement the traditional textbook as a learning tool.

      Focus on building a real online business as opposed to dabbling in IM and start thinking about what you're doing today and how that will benefit you 5 years from now.
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  • Profile picture of the author PatrickP
    DING DING DING we have a WINNER! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    GREAT post!

    To me we are guilty of wanting a quick answer but this is human nature. I would bet that the courses or books which say it like it is far undersell the get rich quick WSOs.

    The reality is that is takes a LOT of work and quite a bit of time as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author PatrickP
    I wonder if some company or some person was to offer newbies their own website to get started and then they are responsible to help push traffic would work?
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      I often think about how college classes are set up.

      They have a list of prerequisites that you have to have before you can take the course.

      I have started to put those on my WSOs and Hotsheets now. I don't think it's enough to just say "Newbie-friendly." How new is a newbie? Some people have been blogging for years or can do a lot of techy stuff but are "newbies" to IM. Other people are "newbies" to the whole Internet experience.

      Does it make me lose some sales? Probably. But I'd rather lose a sale than have someone buy my Hotsheets and not be able to use them "as-is." Or have to buy something else as a guide in order to use it.

      OTOH, if I included every single step in each Hotsheet for a brand-new newbie to use, people with more experience would be bored to tears and my Hotsheets would be 50 pages long.

      And I also agree with the other posters: promising 6 figures a month at the push of a button is flashier than saying "Hey, if you work hard for X months, you can make enough to pay all your bills and not have to work 40 hours a week anymore," but it's more refreshing to see a more modest claim.
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      "Fate protects fools, little children, and ships called Enterprise." ~Commander Riker
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by RayWhittaker View Post

        Given the figures quoted above, I would say that should be regarded as a success. But if a teacher teaches a straight forward process or subject to 200 motivated students of average intelligence, wouldn't you expect a better than 5% success rate?
        Ray, you raise a valid point, but your point depends on three assumptions which are not an automatic given.

        > That the process really is straightforward,
        > The the students are indeed motivated, and
        > That the students are all of average intelligence or better.

        The other area of concern is whether or not simply being able to execute the process is enough to guarantee the promised result. For many, that's simply not true.

        Originally Posted by RayWhittaker View Post

        In any other industry it's a really bad idea to blame your customer when things go wrong. Yet the IM business gets away with it all the time. There are IM gurus that claim to be able to teach IM, step-by-step to anyone; 'it's easy' they say. Yet 95% of the time they fail to deliver on that promise. In what other industry would a 95% failure rate be acceptable?
        I can think of at least two...

        Economics and weather forecasting. :p
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  • Profile picture of the author barbling
    I've been making a successful living online now since 1997.

    Over the years, I've been there/done it all with regards to making money online - offline business, online business, infoproducts, eBay, Amazon, affiliate marketing, SEO (heh, I was doing SEO back when Infoseek did real-time indexing), breaking the Google code in 2004 (had a few glorious 20K months from that), etc.etc.etc.

    Now in my vast venerable age, I think the most optimal way to make money online is to become an authority figure and build a following.

    The process by which to do that is easy....implementing it, however, takes bleeploads of dedication and a willingness to learn from your mistakes. Not everyone can do that....

    Data points,

    Barbara Ling
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  • Profile picture of the author PatrickP
    Very true Barbra!

    Bleeploads of dedication or bleeploads of money to do national advertising like Anthony Morrison.

    Speaking of Morrison anyone know where he got the funds to run national infomercials?
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  • Profile picture of the author SocialBlasting
    From what I see, it's a case of people not being able to wrap their brains around the concept of making a living from "this internet thing". Once a person stops and thinks about the near future (10-20 years from now) and does a little dot connecting, they see that they better get on this boat while there's still room!
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    This whole arc on teachers is missing a couple of important points.

    An IM "Guru" selling an info product is not a "Teacher" in any real sense. Success or failure depends entirely upon the student being able to run with the ball with the information they have.

    That's no different than buying a cookbook, following a recipe, producing some horrible tasting gourmet dish and not understanding where you went wrong.

    The "Teacher" in this case has no real interaction with the student. Which means they're not fulfilling their core responsibilities, which are motivating the student and facilitating their ability to learn through research, analysis and discussion.

    Greed is a limited motivator (in terms of get rich quick promises in sales copy). So are "Simple, Easy, No-Brainer, etc.", because the student quickly learns it's not quite so easy for them.

    I'm willing to bet you dollars to donuts that those who succeed in IM the easiest are those who have developed the ability to learn independently. These are the folks that can buy an info product, implement it and achieve the results they expected.

    In my experience, most people do not have this ability. That's not to suggest they can't succeed at IM, but again, in my experience at least, it's going to take them a couple of years to connect the dots and make something work.

    A simple example of this would be some of the questions I see asked in this forum. I read the question and if I don't know what the answer is or what the OP is talking about (and assuming I'm interested in the answer), I've got the answer in 2 or 3 minutes at most, by searching Google.

    In most cases, they can even find the answer by searching this forum, but they don't bother. For example, from page 1 of this forum as I write this:

    How do I resize this picture?
    Domain Name Question? (about Hyphens)
    What Cost To Set Up WSO?
    What Keywords in Google? (Checking to see how keywords rank)
    How To Put An Affiliate Link in WP Robot? (First Post!)

    There are more, but I think you get the point. No offense to our members doing this, but if you aren't able to search for and find an answer online these days without resorting to posting it in the forum (thus allowing others to do your work for you), you need to consider if IM is right for you.

    The reason is that you've developed (or are quickly developing) a habit of relying on 3rd parties to help you around every little barrier. To me it shows a resistance or inability to learn independently.

    While that may seem harsh or offensive, the fact is you're missing out on an opportunity to learn, not only the answer to your question, but tertiary elements of it as well.

    When I'm developing a script, I sometimes spend hours researching certain technique for improvements, changes, etc. Everything I learn from those searches stays with me and expands my development knowledge. I may learn something unrelated to this project that I can readily put to use on something else down the road.

    Just observe who posts questions on the forum frequently and then think about how successful you perceive them to be. You'll find that those who we "Perceive" as "Making it" online, rarely ask questions like the ones I listed.

    Instead, they research them because they recognize the need to learn and understand the topic as it relates to whatever it is they're doing. If they cannot find the answer, they usually know who they can go to directly to ask the question rather than rely on potentially misguided advice on a public forum.

    The best students teach themselves - the best teachers guide the student's development.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    And you’ve probably heard yourself the usual response from those promoting these products, which is, if you can’t make an info product work successfully, it’s because you’re lazy and don’t take action.
    That peeves me off a lot. I see so many "systems " that will never make money no matter how hard anyone works it. Yet when they fail "it's your fault...didn't work hard enough" Bull.

    so are you saying keep away from affiliate marketing? Nice post.
    And you’ve probably heard yourself the usual response from those promoting these products, which is, if you can’t make an info product work successfully, it’s because you’re lazy and don’t take action.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex.R
    Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

    I've coached more than enough people online to know with absolute certainty that the problem is not laziness or a lack of action. It's because these products fail miserably at teaching the most important element of all - how to start and manage a business online.
    Mike, has got this absolutely right in this post of his, i've taken just one paragraph quote from his entire post, but everything else is sound sense.

    Yes people have to stop jumping around from one program to another, thinking the mere act of making an info purchase is somehow going to make it all happen. The fact that it is so easy to get distracted, makes it that much harder to stay focused on one method at a time, I've been there so many times.

    As Mike says "it's kind of like being on a carousel from hell" getting dizzy and more confused. You then need to go back to the begining and do one step at a time and build on those steps, thats the way forward and to keep your sanity.I agree in not trying for the big win,if you know the stock market like i do you know thats the way to ruin. Minimize the loses and expand on the winners, thats the way forward.
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