The Internet Marketing Industry is Mostly a Scam!

by Chr
94 replies
Lets get this out of the way first: I know this post is a rant and very critical, but I think its accurate.

The whole internet marketing industry seems very shady. Most products are either outright scams or products that don't live up the their hype or the the "promises" made in the sales copy. Nearly every internet marketing product is sold like some magic bullet product, "Make a six figure income on auto pilot! No work required!" type stuff. It also seems that a lot of the people making money online are doing it primarily by selling products about making money online (hmm.....).

Take a look at most products sold by people on this forum. Most of them are sold like the "Lose weight and gain muscle without diet or exercise" ads on TV. I feel like most products here are offering no real quality to customers.

What do you think?


Clarifications: I am not saying every internet marketing type thing is garbage or a scam, but that a large proportion of them are. I'm mainly referring to products offering to help people make money online and products that offer some kind of success without any hard work or intelligent thinking. Also, I think that the garbage products that make unreasonable promises are much much more common than ought right scams.



Sorry this thread is poorly named. I should have said "full of mostly low quality products" not "mostly a scam".
#industry #internet #marketing #scam
  • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
    Originally Posted by Chr View Post

    What do you think?
    I think you're not doing your sig much help in a thread like this.

    ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    I think that just because you may be a scammer doesn't mean the rest of us are too.
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    • Profile picture of the author Toby.T
      Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

      I think that just because you may be a scammer doesn't mean the rest of us are too.
      Agreed, in every industry there are shady types, some more obvious than others.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chr
        [DELETED]
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        • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
          Originally Posted by Chr View Post

          I don't understand, how does this make me a scammer?
          You believe in your heart most IM'ers are scammers. Since you yourself are an IM'er it only stands to reason you may also be a scammer. Am I actually calling you a scammer though? Of course not.
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          • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
            Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post


            You believe in your heart most IM'ers are scammers. Since you yourself are an IM'er it only stands to reason you may also be a scammer. Am I actually calling you a scammer though? Of course not.

            That's pretty good deductive logical, a nice mathematical flow.

            Can this be put in an algebraic formula?

            The 13th Warrior
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
          Banned
          You whine about how IM is a scam and those who operate in the Niche are scammers...while advertising an IM specific ebook in your sig file. Are you not seeing the contradiction?
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  • Profile picture of the author manny2513
    Totally wrong man for real. Is not fair to judge all IMs just for the fault of the very few. There are millions made on IM every day and there are products that if you follow them will make you money. But you have to add your twist bro you can't expect everything done for you. IM requires hard work and dedication. If you expect to buy a product and make millions just cuz you bought that then IM is not for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Originally Posted by Chr View Post

    Lets get this out of the way first: I know this post is a rant and very critical, but I think its accurate.

    The whole internet marketing industry seems very shady. Most products are either outright scams or products that don't live up the their hype or the the "promises" made in the sales copy. Nearly every internet marketing product is sold like some magic bullet product, "Make a six figure income on auto pilot! No work required!" type stuff. It also seems that a lot of the people making money online are doing it primarily by selling products about making money online (hmm.....).

    Take a look at most products sold by people on this forum. Most of them are sold like the "Lose weight and gain muscle without diet or exercise" ads on TV. I feel like most products here are offering no real quality to customers.

    What do you think?
    In order for you to know most products are a scam you would have had to try most products, otherwise you're just guessing. I seriously doubt you've tried most products, so I can only conclude you're prone to exaggeration or just make up whatever you feel like in order to make your case. Neither one of those scenarios puts you in a very good light.

    Normally I wouldn't say that to someone, but you did ask.
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  • Profile picture of the author Presto Smith
    There are definitely scams out there in the industry, but there are also some diamonds in the rough. If you are tired of the sales letters and approaches then try developing your own product and pitching it in a way that suites your style.
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  • Profile picture of the author rrm
    Originally Posted by Chr View Post

    Take a look at most products sold by people on this forum. Most of them are sold like the "Lose weight and gain muscle without diet or exercise" ads on TV. I feel like most products here are offering no real quality to customers.

    What do you think?
    Do you KNOW that "most products" sold on the WF offer no real "quality"? Have you ever bought any? How would you suggest the sellers word their copy, since it appears you equate value with your idea of sales letter quality?

    Ron
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  • Profile picture of the author Chr
    I don't understand, how can this post make me a scammer?

    Totally wrong man for real. Is not fair to judge all IMs just for the fault of the very few. There are millions made on IM every day and there are products that if you follow them will make you money. But you have to add your twist bro you can't expect everything done for you. IM requires hard work and dedication. If you expect to buy a product and make millions just cuz you bought that then IM is not for you.
    First off I want to apologies, I didn't intend to say that all IM products are scams. However I feel that many (not just very rarely) products don't offer anything like what the sales copy says they will. This results in a lot of gullible people wasting hard earned money.

    In order for you to know most products are a scam you would have had to try most products, otherwise your just guessing. I seriously doubt you've tried most products, so I can only conclude you're prone to exaggeration or just make up whatever you feel like in order to make your case. Neither one of those scenarios puts you in a very good light.
    Not really the case. I see herbal remedies that promise great health benefits and sports supplements that say they'll make me buff. I don't have to use them to know their not going to work. On the same line, I've never used heroine but I can still say using it is a bad decision.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Chr View Post

      Not really the case. I see herbal remedies that promise great health benefits and sports supplements that say they'll make me buff. I don't have to use them to know their not going to work. On the same line, I've never used heroine but I can still say using it is a bad decision.
      Cherry picking obvious scams doesn't justify your original comment. Most products are not scams, in my opinion. I buy dozens of products every year, it's important to keep learning, and not a one was a scam. I think I've asked for refunds maybe a half dozen times in all my years online because of low quality, and I've been doing this since 1997. But scammed ... not once. If you're getting scammed, maybe you should take a look at your decision making processes.

      For every obvious scam you name I can name 10 products that aren't obvious scams. If you haven't tried them, you don't know if they are scams or not. So again, to say most products are scams you would have had to try most products. Stating opinion as fact does not make the opinion fact.
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  • Profile picture of the author Warrior Ben
    Chr,

    There is a big difference between not living up to promises and being an outright scam. The problem (and reason they are so successful) is that most Internet Marketing courses sell the dream of becoming rich and all that goes with that. The reason it is done this way is because that is what works. If somebody is going to spend the time creating a product, they are going to use the technique that will get them the most sales.

    Does that mean that people should lie in their sales letters? Of course not, but also take a good look at why you are buying something. If you have the expectation that if you buy a course, watch a couple videos and become a millionaire, then you are naturally going to feel let down when the results don't occur. The reality is not that the product is bad, but that you failed to fully implement it.

    Of course there are things that are over-hyped and you should use your own judgment on whether to buy it or not. But to discount all internet marketing courses or products as a scam is just a complete fallacy.

    There is plenty of good information out there (both free & paid) and it is up to you to figure out what works for your circumstances and then stick with it. Don't give it a go for a day or a week, or even a few months and then just give up. Stick with it and you WILL make money. It usually takes people about a year or so to really figure things out and get things going. Yes, you will make some money in the first year, but it takes some time to understand how everything works and then to really go out and implement it.

    I wish you the best of luck in your IM career and hope that you find something that works for you!

    -Ben
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    I'll admit to lots of sensationalism in IM but you have gone in the opposite direction and for the first time (never ever thought I'd say this) I actually miss the sensationalism. first tip is that your list builder ought to be something people want to read enough to give their email. shared hosting? Makes me sleepy is about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chr
    I added the clarifications to the first posts as I think some people kinda misunderstood my intentions of the thread.
    I'll admit to lots of sensationalism in IM but you have gone in the opposite direction and for the first time (never ever thought I'd say this) I actually miss the sensationalism. first tip is that your list builder ought to be something people want to read enough to give their email. shared hosting? Makes me sleepy is about it.
    People want to know how to succeed without hard work...I can't tell people that, no one can.
    Unlike many people I don't pretend I can.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I didn't intend to say that all IM products are scams
      Really? YOU chose the title of this thread.

      Take a look at most products sold by people on this forum. Most of them are sold like the "Lose weight and gain muscle without diet or exercise" ads on TV. I feel like most products here are offering no real quality to customers.
      Adding a "clarification" that you don't mean "everyone" is probably not helpful at this point.

      Does "mostly" mean honest IM products are almost never, hardly ever sold here - but once in a while it happens?

      LOL - sometimes you need to just cut and run

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author mywebwork
    Originally Posted by Chr View Post

    The whole internet marketing industry seems very shady. Most products are either outright scams or products that don't live up the their hype or the the "promises" made in the sales copy.
    So you are saying virtually every product marketed on the Internet is some form of scam? The Internet is just another medium for product promotion and distribution. Prior to the advent of online commerce many of the same products were sold in conventional "brick & mortar" stores and advertised in print, on television and on radio. Were they all "scams" as well?

    Originally Posted by Chr View Post

    Nearly every internet marketing product is sold like some magic bullet product, "Make a six figure income on auto pilot! No work required!" type stuff.
    Again, is this technique exclusive to the Internet? Seems to me that cars, beer and exercise equipment was being sold like this a long time before the web browser became popular.

    Originally Posted by Chr View Post

    It also seems that a lot of the people making money online are doing it primarily by selling products about making money online (hmm.....).
    It would seem from your signature that you are doing the same thing - you are advertising a free e-book about shared hosting to build yourself a list. Aside from Internet Marketers who else would be interested in a book about shared hosting? And what did you intend to do with this list? "hmm" indeed!

    Originally Posted by Chr View Post

    Take a look at most products sold by people on this forum. Most of them are sold like the "Lose weight and gain muscle without diet or exercise" ads on TV. I feel like most products here are offering no real quality to customers.
    Many successful WSO's have garnered rave reviews by people who have found them to be genuinely useful. Of course there have also been least than stellar products hawked here as well - again just like in any marketplace. But to categorize "most" of them as offering no value to customers is plain wrong.

    Originally Posted by Chr View Post

    What do you think?
    If I told you what I really thought I'd likely get banned from the forum - suffice to say that I fully disagree with you!

    However I have made an observation after a visit to your profile. Since joining us on Christmas day you've sought out advice from Warriors about your business development ideas, asked for critiques regarding both your website and the free eBook you are giving away to build your mailing list and have asked questions about SEO.

    If Internet Marketing is indeed the scam you claim it is why do you wish to get advice about doing it yourself - unless you're planing to be a scam artist yourself?

    :confused:

    Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author Chr
      So you are saying virtually every product marketed on the Internet is some form of scam? The Internet is just another medium for product promotion and distribution. Prior to the advent of online commerce many of the same products were sold in conventional "brick & mortar" stores and advertised in print, on television and on radio. Were they all "scams" as well?
      No I'm saying that most products about making money online are very low quality and overly hyped in the sales letters.

      Again, is this technique exclusive to the Internet? Seems to me that cars, beer and exercise equipment was being sold like this a long time before the web browser became popular.
      Selling products as magic bullets is very common apart from the internet I agree. However cars and beer would not be my examples of this.

      It would seem from your signature that you are doing the same thing - you are advertising a free e-book about shared hosting to build yourself a list. Aside from Internet Marketers who else would be interested in a book about shared hosting?
      Website Owners

      And what did you intend to do with this list? "hmm" indeed!
      Teach about hosting and promote quality hosts.

      Many successful WSO's have garnered rave reviews by people who have found them to be genuinely useful.
      Yes I agree some products are good.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Chr View Post

        No I'm saying that most products about making money online are very low quality and overly hyped in the sales letters.
        There's a difference between a scam and a low quality product. It's called intent. A scam involves an intent to deceive. A low quality product only means the author didn't create a good product, but he or she could be the most honest person on the planet.

        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


        LOL - sometimes you need to just cut and run
        That's good advice. Sometimes when you find yourself in a hole the best thing to do is to quit digging. Personally, I think you just chose your words poorly. I don't think you really believe what you said if you're honest with yourself about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author YasirYar
    I personally do not think online marketing is a scam. Yes there are many courses out there which are fluff but they also come with a money back guarantee.

    If you do not like a course, or if it is just crap, get a refund!
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  • Profile picture of the author Chr
    If Internet Marketing is indeed the scam you claim it is why do you wish to get advice about doing it yourself - unless you're planing to be a scam artist yourself?
    Please view the clarifications, not all products are scam, my website is not about achieving amazing success without working hard (or really even about achieving success).

    Really? YOU chose the title of this thread.
    Your right that was stupid. I wanted a headline that would draw people in, but it wasn't a smart choice.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chr
    There's a difference between a scam and a low quality product. It's called intent. A scam involves an intent to deceive. A low quality product only means the author didn't create a good product, but he or she could be the most honest person on the planet.
    I do partially agree with you, but if a low quality product had a sales page that promised something great, then I think that is dishonest.

    I don't think you really believe what you said if you're honest with yourself about it.
    Are you referring to anything specific that I've said? I've been bothered by the shadiness and magic bullet-ness of the products on this forum and the making money online niche for a long time and I finally made this thread.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Chr View Post

      I do partially agree with you, but if a low quality product had a sales page that promised something great, then I think that is dishonest.
      That could establish the intent part I mentioned previously. You may have misinterpretted something too, or your expectations were inaccurate. I have no way of knowing. I do know two people can see things completely differently without either person being in the wrong.

      I also know two customers can buy the same product and one uses the product and gets results and the other cries scam, sometimes without even using the product. And what you're doing, what everyone is objecting to, is you crying scam over products you haven't even bought.

      Do you not see the problem with that?

      Are you referring to anything specific that I've said? I've been bothered by the shadiness and magic bullet-ness of the products on this forum and the making money online niche for a long time and I finally made this thread.
      Just the way your overall tone has changed and that you've backpedaled from your harsh stance some. Being "bothered by the shadiness" is a long way from saying "most products are scams."

      Now let me ask you something. I told you I buy dozens of products every year and have never been scammed. How many have you bought in the last year? What sample size are you using to pass this damning judgment on an entire industry?
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  • Profile picture of the author Miguelito203
    Originally Posted by Chr View Post

    Lets get this out of the way first: I know this post is a rant and very critical, but I think its accurate.

    The whole internet marketing industry seems very shady. Most products are either outright scams or products that don't live up the their hype or the the "promises" made in the sales copy. Nearly every internet marketing product is sold like some magic bullet product, "Make a six figure income on auto pilot! No work required!" type stuff. It also seems that a lot of the people making money online are doing it primarily by selling products about making money online (hmm.....).

    Take a look at most products sold by people on this forum. Most of them are sold like the "Lose weight and gain muscle without diet or exercise" ads on TV. I feel like most products here are offering no real quality to customers.

    What do you think?


    Clarifications: I am not saying every internet marketing type thing is garbage or a scam, but that a large proportion of them are. I'm mainly referring to products offering to help people make money online and products that offer some kind of success without any hard work or intelligent thinking. Also, I think that the garbage products that make unreasonable promises are much much more common than ought right scams.



    Sorry this thread is poorly named. I should have said "full of mostly low quality products" not "mostly a scam".
    As someone who works in the IM niche, I agree with you when you say that there are a lot of crappy products out there, and there are a lot of people who promote them. However, there are crappy products in every niche market. As a marketer, it's about you choosing to promote quality products vs. sucky ones.

    I know a lot of people who promote stuff that sucks, but even though they might make a lot of sales, they also get tons of refunds. That is dumb as crap to me. I am not wasting my time doing that. In the big scheme of things, it makes much more logical sense to leverage the same traffic but to use it to promote a quality product.

    That way, you are using the traffic to your advantage without having to worry about getting a tons of refunds, and you are helping people at the same time. I have found that lot of people in this niche, though, get turned off when you tell them the truth. They won't want to worry for anything. They would rather complain about being broke rather than doing something about it. You can't help these people.

    I can't stand how a majority of the products are promoted these days. Even some of the legit products use the same kind of sales pages that the crappy product owners do--just to draw people in b/c, as I said before, people don't like to work for anything. I realize it's b/c it takes a certain kind of person to do this job or to be an entrepreneur in general.

    On the up side, since the FTC has implemented new rules this year that product creators must follow in order to sell their products, I believe things will change for the better. There have been a number of product creators who haven't been able to get their stuff listed on affiliate networks like Clickbank b/c of their sales pages.

    Joey
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  • Profile picture of the author scottmanesis
    Of course what is considered junk-low quality or rehashed is a matter of opinion. Take for example a product on the basics of list building teaching how to set up an auto responder etc. To an experienced internet marketer, they have seen this info a thousand times sso to them yeah its old rehashed information.

    To the newbie, he just found true gold. Is it not new info, not to you....but it is to him and if someone was not distributing that info that YOU already know about, that person may have never found out. BTW all info is rehashed and repackaged....there is this dude...some people call him God..says "There is nothing new under the sun"

    Automobiles have had steering wheels, 4 wheels and an engine since they came out....so in this sense there are no new cars and just rehashed and repackaged versions of old cars.

    Another way to put it is one mans trash is another mans treasure. Also you must consider the source. I would rather see someone put out a product and try at improving their life that may be considered old info by some, than to sit around waiting for some brand new totally original concept to hit them before they make a go at taking action and sharing what they DO know now! At least they are passing their knowledge on whether it is a free or paid info product....they are doing what they can and taking action and that is half the battle towards success in IM.

    Your info is not going to be for everyone and if you wait for your info to be a totally original idea...well you may never get anything done. Success leaves clues.

    Also, all good marketing is going to stretch the truth on the benefits of the product or service. I mean when was the last time you purchased a coke and it taught the world to live in harmony?But that's the song they sing isn't it?
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    this topic comes up almost everyday on WF.

    here is my take(again). Most how to IM or MMO products drastically overstate their value and how easy it may be to replicate the results they promise.

    the real truth is that there is far less money in telling people they must work for a living than in telling them how to make 20k in 30 days.

    even most of us that have achieved great things via the internet still work damn hard at it. but you no one will buy an ebook if the sales copy read... find out how to make a decent living online by working 50+ hours a week in front of a cpu.

    that would be a terrible headline, but the reality is that most of us who are successful spent months if not years following this model of hard work.

    however, i also blame those who dont think before they buy. did you really think someone who knows how to make 20k in 30 days would sell you that secret for $7?

    why on earth would he do that, why would he not be following his advice.

    but this "shovel seller" concept has been around for a very long time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    I have 2 thoughts on this topic.

    1. There are scammers in this niche. A lot of them get caught right here at this forum because they do something stupid in their attempt to get one over on everyone else. But really, so what? There are scammers in literally every market where people are selling anything to other people. It's a risk for every single one of us every time we go out to buy something we haven't personally used before.

    2. Most people who are attracted to claims like "make six figures by next week without any work" wouldn't know how to work hard to actually build a business online if they had to do it to save their lives. They want the easy way precisely because they don't have it within them to be patient, work hard without any real return for weeks or months, and are not entrepreneurial in their guts. That's what it takes, but try selling that in any niche. How many weight loss pills would sell if the makers said you also had to exercise every day, eat less, and expect no more than a few lbs. lost every month? How many cars would you sell if you didn't focus on the good, ignore or downplay the bad, and work on peoples' emotions?

    This niche is big. It has all kinds of sellers from all walks of life and of varied ethical mindsets. Singling us out is pointless. And I believe what YOU bring to the dance matters a lot more to your own success than anything you can buy for $7 in the WSO section here.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    Originally Posted by Chr View Post

    Sorry this thread is poorly named. I should have said "full of mostly low quality products" not "mostly a scam".
    I can't think of one "low quality product", let alone "scam" that I have purchased and I have purchased many in the past year. Except a couple of low priced WSOs that were really poor.

    I have purchased products that were too advanced for me- some automated traffic software etc, not just technically advanced but more suitable for someone who is running 3 or more established websites. I may use them later, but they will likely be superceded by newer products as things change before I get around to it.

    I have purchased products that didn't fit my business model. The sales pitch was vague but intruguing and then I would find the product involves off-line marketing or eBay or something I'm not interested in starting as a new venture.

    I have purchased products that didn't teach me anything new. Purchase enough products and you are going to see the same "secrets" again and again. Good product couch their information in a way that you grasp it, or put a twist or idea improving the technique.

    I have purchased products that didn't live up to the hype. This was not usually because they lied, but more because the "hype" turned out to be an exploit that violated ToS. Or required resources or traits I didn't have or didn't want to use they way they suggested. But I've never bought a "push button" solution and thought, "Hey... waitaminute... there's more than one button!"

    I have purchased products that are obsolete. A few products have exploited loopholes in services like AdSense and Craigslist that were closed shortly after the product was released.

    I have never purchased a scam. A true "scam" is obvious and wouldn't last long on WF, Clickbank or anywhere else. Over-hyped, yes. Under-delivered, yes. Misleading sales-copy, yes. But that is different than deliberately swindling people of their money and leaving nothing. Many people let their greed override their logic and get sucked in by over-hyped sales letters and then scream "scam" when the product doesn't live up to expectations.

    Don't believe the hype. That is such a well known phrase it has become a cliche. Yet again and again people want to believe the hype. I try not to believe the hype, so hyped up sales letters need to find a balance between my damn curiosity and my sense of logic when they price the product. $10 I'll take a look but $197 I better be able to figure out what it is from the sales letter.

    As someone mentioned above, there isn't any more hype in IM than in weight loss, supplements, investing, natural remedies, etc. Never mind what shampoo can do for your hair or toothpaste can do for your mouth.

    The difference is that in IM, many "scams" actually work if you apply them and work on them. Some supplements, no matter how many you take, are still basically sugar pills.

    Mahlon
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  • Profile picture of the author Walters
    No soryy, I don't think you are qualified to say that. How would you know? I think your assumptions are solely based on "I hear say". You don't have any idea as to what you are talking about.

    And yes all what you wrote is just ranting nothing more as you said it yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Originally Posted by Chr View Post

    Lets get this out of the way first: I know this post is a rant and very critical, but I think its accurate.

    The whole internet marketing industry seems very shady. Most products are either outright scams or products that don't live up the their hype or the the "promises" made in the sales copy. Nearly every internet marketing product is sold like some magic bullet product, "Make a six figure income on auto pilot! No work required!" type stuff. It also seems that a lot of the people making money online are doing it primarily by selling products about making money online (hmm.....).

    Take a look at most products sold by people on this forum. Most of them are sold like the "Lose weight and gain muscle without diet or exercise" ads on TV. I feel like most products here are offering no real quality to customers.

    What do you think?


    Clarifications: I am not saying every internet marketing type thing is garbage or a scam, but that a large proportion of them are. I'm mainly referring to products offering to help people make money online and products that offer some kind of success without any hard work or intelligent thinking. Also, I think that the garbage products that make unreasonable promises are much much more common than ought right scams.



    Sorry this thread is poorly named. I should have said "full of mostly low quality products" not "mostly a scam".

    Before I even read the rest of your post (rant) you need to read this because YOU are the type of person I am talking about in this thread:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...t-courses.html

    Read that post and it will become more clear for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny Nguyen
    So, is school...
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  • Profile picture of the author rachs
    i think because you not make a lot profit from that lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author jace
    I think there are a lot of great products out there. There are also a ton of them
    that you get hit with daily. Do your research and hey, they all come with a money
    back guarantee so what have you got to lose?

    I will agree that there is a lot of hype out there but, that's IM for ya. I will agree
    there is no magic bullet and with IM there is a big learning curve if your new, but if
    you hang in there and you really want to help people and make money at the same
    time it can be done. Win win is always best! It takes time and then you really start to
    see the beauty of it eventually. The people looking for a quick fix or easy money won't
    ever make it anyway and then they get ticked off. Some have been at it for years
    before seeing any real success or money. That's what it takes sometimes!
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  • Profile picture of the author Yoong
    Writing useful content to promote Business willing to pay for advertising on your site is not a scam.

    The biggest scams are people buying a product, not doing what it says and then leaving inaccurate reviews about products they have not even tried!

    Winners never quit! and Quitters never win!
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Yoong View Post


      Winners never quit! and Quitters never win!
      Mind if I edit your comment? How about this, and it's directed at no one in particular...
      Whiners never win and winners never whine!
      Of course, that wouldn't always be true, but I like to play with words.

      I'll bet it's true a lot more than some folks would want to admit, though. In general, winners tend to do the things that help them win, while whiners tend to waste their time complaining about things they can't change.
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      • Profile picture of the author mayan21
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        Mind if I edit your comment? How about this, and it's directed at no one in particular...
        Whiners never win and winners never whine!
        Of course, that woudn't always be true, but I like to play with words.

        I'll bet it's true a lot more than some folks would want to admit, though. In general, winners tend to do the things that help them win, while whiners tend to waste their time complaining about things they can't change.
        thats correct 'whiners never win and winners never whine' :p:p
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan Smith
    The problems with the shared hosting industry
    Does this above mean you have a problem with everything? You mention problems here and on your shared hosting ebook page. Whats the deal man?

    Judging by your post count and rep here you are relatively new here so I take it that you have barely had a chance to get into some of the WSO's on this forum. Even the free stuff in the "War Room".

    I opt in to saying you should find the door you came in and probably not come back due to your crappy comments. If I were to buy your product would I think it is good? I am not sure until I buy it. I am actually going to stop here because I have much more I can say to you but I am not going to.

    I think you should take this advice too and run with it. Your copy on your sales page is no good. May want to tweak it just a bit to attract more buyers. Just advice from a IM vet to you.

    Truth may bite just a bit.



    Jonathan is out! lol
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  • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
    Another month, another "we're all scamming scumbags!" thread.



    Please come back when you understand what real marketers do with their niches, products, and or services. Here's a hint--they build RELATIONSHIPS!

    Now if that is considered scamming someone... well, then I think I'll quit while I'm ahead.
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    You're going to fail. If you're afraid of failure then you do not belong in the Internet Marketing Business. Period.
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  • Profile picture of the author brendanglanville
    Mate I am as green as they come in this industry so that may make my opinion worthless (or more depending where you stand) - while i agree with some of what you are saying- i have also bought some of this stuff and learnt heaps from it - even if it didnt deliver me $297 (obviously the magic number) a day. I got my moneys worth in learnings. I also have found on the whole the people on this forum to be nothing of what i had expected - i expected sharks - slick salesy types - but i have seen more big hearted generous people who have a spirit of community.
    My two cents worth.
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  • Profile picture of the author Affiliatefunk
    If you want to be successful in this business or in any kind of business you must provide value and you must ready to adapt when the storm comes.Scammers don't offer value because they can't,with experience you can spot them easily,unfortunately beginners can't.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert X
    GOLSH!!! SHHHHH,, sheesh,,, don't tell everyone!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author mayan21
    To my knowledge 90% money making products/wso are fake.. lots of guru's making money selling those ebooks. not using those methods.. they say they earn 100000$,200000$ and yet they wasting tons of time trying to sale 8$ wso, if i earn 5k per month i will never ever bothered to sale those kind of ebooks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Affiliatefunk
      Originally Posted by mayan21 View Post

      To my knowledge 90% money making products/wso are fake.. lots of guru's making money selling those ebooks. not using those methods.. they say they earn 100000$,200000$ and yet they wasting tons of time trying to sale 8$ wso, if i earn 5k per month i will never ever bothered to sale those kind of ebooks.
      common sense
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by mayan21 View Post

      To my knowledge 90% money making products/wso are fake.. lots of guru's making money selling those ebooks. not using those methods.. they say they earn 100000$,200000$ and yet they wasting tons of time trying to sale 8$ wso, if i earn 5k per month i will never ever bothered to sale those kind of ebooks.
      I would love to know which orifice you pulled that out of. Are there scam products out there? Yes. Are there a lot of them? Yes. Would I say that it is 9 out of 10 products? No. If people stopped chasing hype and actually looked for products that would be great tools to build a business they would find that they are scammed less than 1% of the time. Also, if people stopped looking at MMO ebooks as the answer, and looked at them as a way to pick up at least one new bit of information then we would be looking at very few products actually being scams.

      Of course, that requires people to have to actually be willing to work to make money here. The ones that get it get it, and they all roll their eyes when you guys post threads like this thinking that you are crying out about some horrible injustice being done against people like you just looking for the right product.

      IM is not a scam. Are there scammers around? Yes. There are scammers in every type of business; and yes this is a business. So if you can't use your brain, practice due diligence, and only buy products that will help your business, well then quite frankly you need to go.

      End Rant
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      • Profile picture of the author mayan21
        Originally Posted by Joe128139 View Post

        I would love to know which orifice you pulled that out of. Are there scam products out there? Yes. Are there a lot of them? Yes. Would I say that it is 9 out of 10 products? No. If people stopped chasing hype and actually looked for products that would be great tools to build a business they would find that they are scammed less than 1% of the time. Also, if people stopped looking at MMO ebooks as the answer, and looked at them as a way to pick up at least one new bit of information then we would be looking at very few products actually being scams.

        Of course, that requires people to have to actually be willing to work to make money here. The ones that get it get it, and they all roll their eyes when you guys post threads like this thinking that you are crying out about some horrible injustice being done against people like you just looking for the right product.

        IM is not a scam. Are there scammers around? Yes. There are scammers in every type of business; and yes this is a business. So if you can't use your brain, practice due diligence, and only buy products that will help your business, well then quite frankly you need to go.

        End Rant
        Money Earned Online: $1500.05
        Days Since Taking Action: 55
        Daily Income Average: $27.27


        how many of those made with selling ebooks? LOl
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
          Banned
          Originally Posted by mayan21 View Post

          Money Earned Online: $1500.05
          Days Since Taking Action: 55
          Daily Income Average: $27.27


          how many of those made with selling ebooks? LOl
          Not one red penny genius. I provide content. Go ahead and do a search through my posts yourself. When you are satisfied, remove your foot from your mouth and do some research before making blanket statements. You'll salvage a little respect. Better yet, just go. We're all scammers to you anyways so you stand to gain nothing by remaining here. Gosh, the ignorant are in full force today.
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    • Profile picture of the author onSubie
      Originally Posted by mayan21 View Post

      and yet they wasting tons of time trying to sale 8$ wso, if i earn 5k per month i will never ever bothered to sale those kind of ebooks.
      This is a huge misconception.

      On of the fundamental ideas of this type of marketing is to diversify your streams of income.

      If you are making $5,000 a month with AdSense and "never bother" to explore other streams oif income, like selling your knowledge in a WSO, then you are in great danger of losing all your income at the whim of Google if they ban your adsense. That applies to many income models.

      And personally, if I was making $5,000 a month- I'd love to make $10,000 a month.

      The WSO's I find most disappointing are the ones that lay out a very basic affiliate marketing strategy and then the "secret" is use a paid tool to drive traffic to your offer.

      I purchased one huge product that included a section on traffic. The whole section was on how to buy traffic from their service with tutorials on walking through the order process. It wasn't a traffic course so this was a minor (though important) part of the package, but the sales copy said it revealed an "awesome source of traffic".

      Disappointing but hardly scams.

      Mahlon
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  • Profile picture of the author Ansar Pasha
    Banned
    Threads like this really pi** me off.

    "Internet Marketing" is NOT the Warrior Forum and it's WSO market. And there are THOUSANDS of successful internet marketers out there who never bought "guru" courses or discuss pointless topics like this day and night.

    And "Internet Marketing" isn't JUST people selling internet marketing products.

    There are bigger markets and worlds outside the "internet marketer" space... stop thinking inside the box.

    Ansar
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    • Profile picture of the author fonoi
      I think the problem is that most products are very easily saturated.

      There are not many Internet Marketers that sell a guide on how they make money from a method before that method starts to slow down in revenue. Selling the method then becomes another income stream.

      Once you combine both the slow down in the methods revenue with 5000 people attempting the method simultaneously you start to see the problem.

      There have been many methods sold on the internet, the methods themselves are solid but once mass reproduced the target usually catches on eg. Youtube and then it becomes very difficult for the beginner to make decent money, while intermeditate marketers still can drain a few $ using experience.

      There are definalty outright scams, I have seen a few of those but the main problem I think is what I outlined above and this leads to the appearance of a scam while in actual fact its jsut about getting on the wagon too late.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Chr,

      Perhaps people should have a look at the definition of 'hustling'.

      Hustling

      According to the definitions offered via that link, it has a wide range of meanings depending on the context of it's use, interpretation etc.

      EG

      From the noble or wise type of hustling -

      to be aggressive, especially in business or other financial dealings.

      to pressure or coerce (a person) to buy or do something: to hustle the customers into buying more drinks.
      To the unethical or illicit type -

      Slang . to earn one's living by illicit or unethical means.

      to obtain by aggressive or illicit means: He could always hustle a buck or two from some sucker.


      Therefore, it is clear that there is a line that can be crossed, perhaps a grey area in the middle.

      But it's also worth noting that in a competitive environment, it is often the person who is most aggressive (or who hustles the best) while staying on the right side of the line who will succeed without compromising commonly accepted ethical boundaries - the ultimate achievement of a professional salesman/marketer.

      In other words, hustling as aggressively and successfully as possible (whilst remaining on the ethical side of the line) is perhaps a noble art, one that all salespeople should aspire to master in order to be as successful as possible, while doing so with an element of stealth, but with an over-riding and lasting impression of deportment and class.

      To do this, one must (presumeably) develop a deep understanding of this skill and it's related issues.

      You said -

      I wanted a headline that would draw people in, but it wasn't a smart choice.
      It sounds to me as though you have just learned a basic lesson of hustling - if your initial pitch is exposed as misleading or erroneous and this becomes clear at the secondary stage, then it may taint the whole message because the prospect will feel deceived and may assume that the whole pitch is of the same ilk.

      The obvious 'bait and switch' may draw a crowd, but it requires much back-pedalling and hard work to achieve the ultimate aim of conversion. Perhaps it is better to avoid shouting the loudest and instead concentrate on using a small crowd to create a buzz and spread the word? (In the context of creating threads, that would perhaps mean providing quality content that creates a solid and useful discussion (long term interest) which illicits positive replies from reputable contributors (social proof)? Note that the title of the thread is virtually irrelevant in this example.)

      Therefore the lesson would be that although the initial pitch needs to be enticing and draw people in, there are important consequences if one is to flirt with the ethical boundary at this initial stage.

      As you can see it's not a simple subject - which is why professional marketers are some of the most highly paid and sought after experts in the world. It's therefore logical to assume that the best approach to this subject is with an open mind, a mind that is not tainted and biased with the cynical blanket assumptions adopted by the typical consumer and a mind that is respectful and appreciative of this noble and difficult art.

      To approach this subject with cynicism and bias while hypocritically applying and demonstrating the common and obvious mistakes of the amateur (mistakes that one is currently seeking to criticise in a blanket, all-encompassing manner), is an amusing but common error, notably one that I have also made myself along the way.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMWinner
    What was your story why you say that Internet Marketing is mostly a scam? It's not that when you encountered some money making scams in your life, doesn't mean you can generalize all internet marketing industry as scams. There are lots of people here who are earning decent money through internet marketing. And as what fellow warrior have stated, there are more to Internet Marketing Industry.
    I am not being rude to you but, I think it's just "sour-grapping" mentality. If a person cannot attain what he wants, he would just justify something that it is negative to comfort his failed action. What I am trying to say, Internet Marketing business requires patience and dedication, which most people doesn't have. And it doesn't mean that it is a scam, it's just that they don't have what it takes in this business.
    I agree that there are scammers out there waiting for their chance to outwit clients so they could extract their cash into something that doesn't exists. If you are vigilant enough and had studied basic actions in the Internet Marketing business, you could spot those scammers and differentiate them from the real ones.
    Don't just start this kind of thread, since not all of us here would have to agree. Try to re-evaluate your Internet Marketing Business set-up, then you will see that it is not mostly scams. Most of us here are working for a decent earning from this business.
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    • Profile picture of the author Itachi
      He might have seen a few overly hypey sales pages, but to think all the IM world is like that is a little bit ignorant, I'm just gonna throw in a few exemples : physical products , do you think affiliates selling physical products that peoples are looking for are scamers too ? and membership sites do you think most peoples owning membership sites are scammers too ? go check, they offer great content or something unique .

      Of course not all of them do but for the most part they do, and this does'nt mean information pruducts have no value, they surely do(again for the most part ) it's just that peoples tend to see virtual ebooks as something without value because it's just megabytes of data.

      Also the IM world is vast and there are many different aspects and possibilities to make money, not only sell products.

      Just trying to clarify things a little bit no offense to the OP !
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  • Profile picture of the author mayan21
    Im not saying Internet marketing is a scam. most offer sellers in here are scammers. i k now IM is a great thing and i make a living with it. 1 year ago I had nothing but Now i have almost everything. i learned in a hard way. i was working for other people now im trying to be my own thats why i came here but now i know there is lots of scammers out there. i've met only one good seller so far. he helped me to start a blog and make money with cpa in 2 weeks time. im not talking here for me. i talking for other newbies. Yes if u have a brain u can avoid most of scam products.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by mayan21 View Post

      Im not saying Internet marketing is a scam. most offer sellers in here are scammers.
      Once again, false. As a matter of fact I would say this is one of the best places online when looking at the ratio of honest:dishonest sellers. Please, please, please tell me what you are basing this off of; because whatever train of thought you have going in your head is escaping me (and most others I'm sure).

      Edit: Oh, it makes sense after going through your post history. You are a serial refunder. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by mayan21 View Post

      Im not saying Internet marketing is a scam. most offer sellers in here are scammers. i k now IM is a great thing and i make a living with it. 1 year ago I had nothing but Now i have almost everything. i learned in a hard way. i was working for other people now im trying to be my own thats why i came here but now i know there is lots of scammers out there. i've met only one good seller so far. he helped me to start a blog and make money with cpa in 2 weeks time. im not talking here for me. i talking for other newbies. Yes if u have a brain u can avoid most of scam products.
      May I politely ask what you get out of this forum and why you come here?

      You don't seem to have anything good to say about this forum despite your extremely short membership of just one month. Is that enough time to assume 9/10 sellers here are scammers?

      How did you arrive at that figure in such a short space of time?

      I'm intrigued.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Richard, the only thing left here that intrigues me is which ebook on forum marketing by creating controversy these guys are following.

        The formula is being used to a 'tee'.

        > Make a controversial statement, bordering on trolling.
        > Keep the thread rolling with a combination of pallid defense and tepid almost-retractions.
        > Adopt the whiny "you don't understand, I'm just trying to help" attitude.

        If I have it pegged, next is an angry attack about people being petty, and/or an empty threat to take their ball and go home...
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          Richard, the only thing left here that intrigues me is which ebook on forum marketing by creating controversy these guys are following.

          The formula is being used to a 'tee'.

          > Make a controversial statement, bordering on trolling.
          > Keep the thread rolling with a combination of pallid defense and tepid almost-retractions.
          > Adopt the whiny "you don't understand, I'm just trying to help" attitude.

          If I have it pegged, next is an angry attack about people being petty, and/or an empty threat to take their ball and go home...
          Spot on John.

          No idea why I bother with these threads. Just popped in while taking a break with a nice glass of wine and there it is, another load of nonsense.

          Think I'll have another glass.

          I bet I can guess what you sell.

          INTERNET MARKETING. Selling rainbows, dreams and unicorn farts since 1929.
          No, I don't sell any IM stuff personally, I have a lovely unicorn fart website though, we have specially decorated bottles to keep it in too. Very pretty, I'll PM you the URL.
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    • Profile picture of the author ambassaroar
      Making money online and health are the two most common industries within internet marketing and yes they are taking advantage of people oblivious to its shady nature. However, there is still a lot of legitimacy in internet marketing, just try to look at it that way.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rose Anderson
    Since I have been on the WF forum I've purchased many WSOs that were information products or services.

    I also offer writing services.

    I have yet to be scammed one single time. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I do have a hard time believing phrases like "mostly a scam" or made up statistics such as "90% are scammers".

    However, I do buy products from people that I've seen making useful comments in the forum for a long period of time and I only buy what relates to my business model.

    Rose
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    Two recurring themes I see people wear out their soap boxes on are:

    Anti Spam Rants
    Anti Scam Rants

    Not everyone who makes money online spams or scams. But they are both topics that will attract attention to sig files.
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    • Profile picture of the author rts2271
      It's funny how many people came in to attack the op as opposed to pointing him out to legit IM products as examples. I bet I can guess what you sell.

      INTERNET MARKETING. Selling rainbows, dreams and unicorn farts since 1929.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by rts2271 View Post

        It's funny how many people came in to attack the op as opposed to pointing him out to legit IM products as examples. I bet I can guess what you sell.

        INTERNET MARKETING. Selling rainbows, dreams and unicorn farts since 1929.
        Sorry, Ralph...

        I don't sell anything related to IM. Fresh out of rainbows, dreams are free and unicorns are on the endangered list so I get a ticket every time I try to get close enough to replenish my stock...

        More seriously, I didn't point to legit examples because it would be a waste of time. It's not what the poster is here for.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

        Two recurring themes I see people wear out their soap boxes on are:

        Anti Spam Rants
        Anti Scam Rants

        Not everyone who makes money online spams or scams. But they are both topics that will attract attention to sig files.
        The only trouble with that kind of rationale for those who think this is a good way to get attention is that the attention they get is seldom positive. How many people checked the OP's sig for an affiliate link, for example?

        Originally Posted by rts2271 View Post

        It's funny how many people came in to attack the op as opposed to pointing him out to legit IM products as examples. I bet I can guess what you sell.

        INTERNET MARKETING. Selling rainbows, dreams and unicorn farts since 1929.
        That's what perception will do for you. You see people attacking, I see people defending their profession from gross generalities.
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        Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          The only trouble with that kind of rationale for those who think this is a good way to get attention is that the attention they get is seldom positive. How many people checked the OP's sig for an affiliate link, for example?
          You are entirely right, I checked the sig; but not because I was thinking "Oh provocative statement, I want what you have to offer." It was more of "Really? This again? 2 to 1 odds their sig contradicts their statement." Now that is when you find less than honesty 90%+ of the time. The ones who b**** about pipe dreams are the ones selling pipe dreams in their signatures. They are just the loud minority.
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        • Profile picture of the author rts2271
          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          The only trouble with that kind of rationale for those who think this is a good way to get attention is that the attention they get is seldom positive. How many people checked the OP's sig for an affiliate link, for example?



          That's what perception will do for you. You see people attacking, I see people defending their profession from gross generalities.
          Why become defensive? I don't get it. When I deal with a person who flat out acts defensive on a question, I think guilty. I think most cops go along that route too. And prosecutors, and people in general. I understand the trend of cry foul of late, but it is neither unfounded or unexpected. Getting defensive is the act of the desperate in a indefensible position. Add to that it has been mostly a bunch of hogwash "It isn't so because I say so" kaka.

          If I were to defend the IM position I would send him out to find almost any Dan Kenendy book, or if it's tools maybe SEONuke or if it was a list building problem, one of Perry Marshalls PPC products and there over to someone like Josh Brown for funnel building. Perhaps I would even try to differentiate get rich quick from Internet Marketing as a business growth tool. I'm just silly like that.

          Certainly not neener neener you are full of poopy pants and are wrong.
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          • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
            Banned
            Originally Posted by rts2271 View Post

            Why become defensive? I don't get it. When I deal with a person who flat out acts defensive on a question, I think guilty. I think most cops go along that route too. And prosecutors, and people in general. I understand the trend of cry foul of late, but it is neither unfounded or unexpected. Getting defensive is the act of the desperate in a indefensible position. Add to that it has been mostly a bunch of hogwash "It isn't so because I say so" kaka.

            If I were to defend the IM position I would send him out to find almost any Dan Kenendy book, or if it's tools maybe SEONuke or if it was a list building problem, one of Perry Marshalls PPC products and there over to someone like Josh Brown for funnel building. Perhaps I would even try to differentiate get rich quick from Internet Marketing as a business growth tool. I'm just silly like that.

            Certainly not neener neener you are full of poopy pants and are wrong.
            I understand where you are coming from here; but have you seen the OP come back to this thread? If they were interested in being proven wrong, they'd be back here making arguments and counterarguments and then coming to a conclusion after proper evidence has been presented both ways.

            Thing is though that this thread (like every other thread of the type) involves the OP disappearing after getting the proper sig link exposure and miniature side arguments on the subject going on between different groups of two to three members.
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            • Profile picture of the author rts2271
              Originally Posted by Joe128139 View Post

              I understand where you are coming from here; but have you seen the OP come back to this thread? If they were interested in being proven wrong, they'd be back here making arguments and counterarguments and then coming to a conclusion after proper evidence has been presented both ways.

              Thing is though that this thread (like every other thread of the type) involves the OP disappearing after getting the proper sig link exposure and miniature side arguments on the subject going on between different groups of two to three members.
              I could care less about the OP. The point is presenting what Internet Marketing really is as opposed to what it has been painted as i.e. Get Rich Quick. Every time someone comes in here and rants, educate them, heck copy and paste my response if need be. The point is it is up to the IM industry to recast the bad light being shone on the IM industry. Just like it's up to the IM industry to police itself before regulators and feds move into the arena in earnest. Or just pretend the issues don't exist and keep your head in the sand and your a$$ in the air.
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              • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                Banned
                Originally Posted by rts2271 View Post

                I could care less about the OP. The point is presenting what Internet Marketing really is as opposed to what it has been painted as i.e. Get Rich Quick. Every time someone comes in here and rants, educate them, heck copy and paste my response if need be. The point is it is up to the IM industry to recast the bad light being shone on the IM industry. Just like it's up to the IM industry to police itself before regulators and feds move into the arena in earnest. Or just pretend the issues don't exist and keep your head in the sand and your a$$ in the air.
                I agree wholeheartedly with your point of view on the subject, but I'm of the opinion that in threads like this that goal just isn't going to happen. These are sensationalist topics that just serve to gain exposure to a sig link or start a flame war.

                Look at the title of the thread "The Internet Marketing Industry is Mostly a Scam". Do you think the type of person that is looking to (or can be educated) is coming to a thread with that title? Doubtful. The people that come here (like myself) are looking to see what silly idea/depths the topic is being brought to, add an opinion, and move on to some actual threads.
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              • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                Originally Posted by rts2271 View Post

                Why become defensive? I don't get it. When I deal with a person who flat out acts defensive on a question, I think guilty. I think most cops go along that route too.
                So you're saying everyone who took a stand against the OP's sweeping generalities is guilty of scamming?

                As someone that used to be in law enforcement, I can say your comparison to cops is misguided. Cops are dealing with crimes, often violent crimes, and are trained to be suspicious in order to protect their lives and the lives of others. The people that are defensive that they deal with are suspects, often caught in the act of committing a crime or near the scene of a crime. That doesn't compare to someone saying an entire industry is mostly a scam and others taking a differing point of view against the person who has just indirectly attacked their livelihood. If the entire industry is condemned, then so are the honest merchants within that industry. Apparently, that's what you don't get, that the OP indirectly called us all scammers.

                There's a difference between being defensive because of guilt and defending something important from sweeping negative generalities based on an extremely narrow and prejudiced opinion. You seem to be ignoring that difference in your conclusion.

                Products about making money online are less than 1% of internet marketing, so using the warrior forum as a basis in which to judge the entire internet marketing industry is starting off from an extremely limited viewpoint and shows a lack of understanding about the industry as a whole.

                Is Amazon a scam? How about Radio Shack? Walmart? Best Buy? All these must be scammers because they participate in internet marketing. So does law enforcement. They sell confiscated good and recovered goods that aren't claimed online. Guess the police are scammers too, eh?

                I'm not saying there aren't problems. I'm saying what I've said all along, IM is NOT mostly a scam, and to say it is says more about the person making the allegation than it does the industry itself.
                Signature

                Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author Rose Anderson
    I do have some software that will take a unicorn fart and spin it to a 70% original smell...
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  • Profile picture of the author marceauct
    Like all things get a refund, the longer you do im you will find value and many that are not, easily can weed them out. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author TolyZ
    I actually agree with OP. 99% of IM is pure BS filled with fake promises.
    Why they have to MAKE those promises? Because, if they tell the truth by saying "You can make few 100s a months if you work your ass off" no one will buy it, so they rather promise you millions and get hit with 70-80% refund rate.

    Just look at this forum. I keep coming across threads like "I'm new to IM, help me get my product out" , or "I've been in IM for 2 months, where can I sell my product" ... and what is the "product" ? A sh*tty PDF telling you how to create wordpress web site filled with adsense ... or create an affiliate web site ...

    Honestly, if you think someone will tell you how THEY make 1000s online for $19 you must be stupid. If I make 1000s in my niche, you think I'm going to sell it for $19 and create more competition for myself? The ONLY reason why they start selling it if it goes down hill or the niche becomes way more competitive.

    If a person successful online you really think they got time to create BS WSO's? They are to busy taking care of customers / managing their web sites.

    Every time I see a Hyped up title like "I'll show you how I make 1000's online" this picture comes to mind:
    Signature
    Professional SEO Company marketing1on1.com that gets results.
    BuyBacklinksCheap.com
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Giannetti
    It really surprises me how many take offense to this post.

    very interesting.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      Well some people see some hypocrisy is the OP so yeah...

      Originally Posted by Joe Giannetti View Post

      It really surprises me how many take offense to this post.

      very interesting.
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  • Profile picture of the author jerry25
    Everything in life has scams...buyer beware. I have purchased multiple products on the Special Offers Forum. Some better than others. Only a few were not right for me and I immediately asked for a refund.

    We are all in different places with our knowledge. Some like social marketing, some don't. Some are offline, where others are online. Back to buyer beware. Look what you are buying before you buy. Look at the reviews.

    I sure don't buy in to the fact that the whole im industry is just spam. You must of had a lot of bad luck. Think positive, good things will come.
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  • Profile picture of the author azmanar
    Originally Posted by Chr View Post

    The whole internet marketing industry seems very shady. Most products are either outright scams or products that don't live up the their hype or the the "promises" made in the sales copy. Nearly every internet marketing product is sold like some magic bullet product, "Make a six figure income on auto pilot! No work required!" type stuff. It also seems that a lot of the people making money online are doing it primarily by selling products about making money online (hmm.....).

    Take a look at most products sold by people on this forum. Most of them are sold like the "Lose weight and gain muscle without diet or exercise" ads on TV. I feel like most products here are offering no real quality to customers.

    What do you think?
    @CHR

    Your definition of "Internet Marketing Industry" is a bit narrow in perspective. You're probably complaining about Make Money Online.

    Internet Marketing is a method used by many segments of the world industries to advertise, promote and brand their products as well as services.

    Shell, GSK, Tesco, Samsung, Nokia, Apple, BMW, Audi, China Steel, British Airways, Virgin Airlines, KFC, Pizza Hut, HSBC, Standard Chartered, Hilton Hotels, Pullman Hotels, Music Albums, CNN, Bloomberg and thousands of other businesses USE INTERNET MARKETING.

    And many training schools and educational institutions extend their courses online to millions of students. They have to do Internet Marketing because the students prefer the internet as their medium of study. They matched well.

    Not only commercial enterprises use INTERNET MARKETING, non-profits do that as well. Medicine Sans Frontier, USAID, UNICEF, GreenPeace, Red Cross, Red Crescent, FIFA, Olympic Council and thousands more all over the world. With Internet Marketing they have more reach and better exposure.

    Informal groups also use INTERNET MARKETING for their causes. I name 2 most recent revolutions such as Egypt, better known for Facebook Revolution and Syria, well known for using YouTube to expose their plights.

    So with the millions of OFFLINE ESTABLISHMENTS in the world, imagine the huge opportunities for people with Internet Marketing skills.

    Therefore, millions of Internet Marketers don't need scams to make lots of money at all because they can service such enterprises and non-profits.

    WHAT AM I DOING HERE? I want to learn more about Internet Marketing so as to extend my skills and add even more value when servicing my clients.

    So, if you widen your perspectives a bit, you will reap more benefits of Internet Marketing while still being clean of scams.
    Signature
    === >>> Tomorrow Should Be Better Than Today

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  • Profile picture of the author Exel
    There are scams in every industry, and it is not different with internet marketing,
    but it is not by any means 'mostly scam'.

    The promises are sometimes exaggerated, but check out any commercial on any
    medium for any product and see if it's different. That is why it's called marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author pbdollars
    There are for sure plenty of scams there. There are different ways to make money in IM. It depends on what way you choose to make money. If you take shortcuts, it could work but only short term.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Originally Posted by Chr View Post

    Lets get this out of the way first: I know this post is a rant and very critical, but I think its accurate.

    The whole internet marketing industry seems very shady. Most products are either outright scams or products that don't live up the their hype or the the "promises" made in the sales copy. Nearly every internet marketing product is sold like some magic bullet product, "Make a six figure income on auto pilot! No work required!" type stuff. It also seems that a lot of the people making money online are doing it primarily by selling products about making money online (hmm.....).

    Take a look at most products sold by people on this forum. Most of them are sold like the "Lose weight and gain muscle without diet or exercise" ads on TV. I feel like most products here are offering no real quality to customers.

    What do you think?


    Clarifications: I am not saying every internet marketing type thing is garbage or a scam, but that a large proportion of them are. I'm mainly referring to products offering to help people make money online and products that offer some kind of success without any hard work or intelligent thinking. Also, I think that the garbage products that make unreasonable promises are much much more common than ought right scams.



    Sorry this thread is poorly named. I should have said "full of mostly low quality products" not "mostly a scam".

    First of all YOU (the OP) are being deceptive…

    You talk about the people in Internet Marketing being a scam but I went to your website and you say
    “The shared hosting industry is very screwed up. High advertisement budgets and high paying affiliate programs make it hard to find real advise, reviews, and recommendations”
    But then on page 6 inside of your Free Report you have one of the largest hosting companies affiliate links in there. I thought you said on your front page that the high paying affiliate programs make it hard to find real advice.

    So what are you saying? Why should I believe you over the next guy who is also promoting that major hosting company? Does this mean you are a SCAMMER?

    But now let’s address a few issues with your post…

    1) I guess I can assume you have bought a good number of products on this forum to come to the conclusion that most of them are scams right? And by the shear volume of WSO's that are posted weekly, that would be a lot of products.

    2) How many of those products that you buy do you actually understand? Or do you even read them? If I had to read that many products I wouldn't have the time to try anything.

    3) With your vast experience on this forum (Dec 2010 and 39 posts later) what makes you qualified to give such a profound statement?

    In summation:

    Guys like you are the problem with Internet Marketing… Like the guys on the street corner asking for quarters, you don’t feel you need to do any work or thinking on your own. You expect it to be handed to you just like those guys on the streets.

    You have 39 posts, most of which came from this little "hissy fit" of yours… Hey it’s not our fault you failed to do due diligence or had a fantasy about what you thought you were getting into online. But before you can actually call anything a scam you have to be honest with yourself and own up to the mistakes you made that you had complete control over… Like taking action.

    PS. For the guy who says people who are defensive are most likely guilty is talking out of his a**... He pops up here and throws up a blanket statement as idiotic as the OP's and expects people to believe him... Bahaha Well sir, see if your deductive reasoning stands up in a court of law.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chr
    I actually agree with OP. 99% of IM is pure BS filled with fake promises.
    Why they have to MAKE those promises? Because, if they tell the truth by saying "You can make few 100s a months if you work your ass off" no one will buy it, so they rather promise you millions and get hit with 70-80% refund rate.

    Just look at this forum. I keep coming across threads like "I'm new to IM, help me get my product out" , or "I've been in IM for 2 months, where can I sell my product" ... and what is the "product" ? A sh*tty PDF telling you how to create wordpress web site filled with adsense ... or create an affiliate web site ...

    Honestly, if you think someone will tell you how THEY make 1000s online for $19 you must be stupid. If I make 1000s in my niche, you think I'm going to sell it for $19 and create more competition for myself? The ONLY reason why they start selling it if it goes down hill or the niche becomes way more competitive.

    If a person successful online you really think they got time to create BS WSO's? They are to busy taking care of customers / managing their web sites.
    Thank you.

    But then on page 6 inside of your Free Report you have one of the largest hosting companies affiliate links in there. I thought you said on your front page that the high paying affiliate programs make it hard to find real advice.
    That host is my very last recommendation and I only put it in there for the people who refuse to believe that the unlimited hosting route is a bad path. I made a change to that list on my webpage and the "5." was switched to an "X." and I clearly explain that I wouldn't choose that hosting route. I recently unpublished the recommendations page (but I can show you a copy if you'd like). I'm also planning to remove the recommendations from my ebook when I put out the next version. I've been kinda busy though and I'm waiting to work on this site (I may actually cancel the site all together.)
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by Chr View Post

      Thank you.

      That host is my very last recommendation and I only put it in there for the people who refuse to believe that the unlimited hosting route is a bad path. I made a change to that list on my webpage and the "5." was switched to an "X." and I clearly explain that I wouldn't choose that hosting route. I recently unpublished the recommendations page (but I can show you a copy if you'd like). I'm also planning to remove the recommendations from my ebook when I put out the next version. I've been kinda busy though and I'm waiting to work on this site (I may actually cancel the site all together.)

      Originally Posted by Chr View Post

      Thank you.

      That host is my very last recommendation and I only put it in there for the people who refuse to believe that the unlimited hosting route is a bad path. I made a change to that list on my webpage and the "5." was switched to an "X." and I clearly explain that I wouldn't choose that hosting route. I recently unpublished the recommendations page (but I can show you a copy if you'd like). I'm also planning to remove the recommendations from my ebook when I put out the next version. I've been kinda busy though and I'm waiting to work on this site (I may actually cancel the site all together.)

      That makes absolutely NO sense ... Hey look whose on the defensive now??? Anyone with half a brain can figure you out.

      1) You say that you cannot trust honest reviewers

      2) You say you recommend a company that isn't good by your standards

      3) You apply the affiliate link to that one anyway

      That is deceptive to say the least... And you sit there calling everyone of us a SCAMMER?

      You're a hypocrite.

      The only scammer that's been uncovered here is YOU!

      You say:
      "I'm also planning to remove the recommendations from my ebook when I put out the next version. I've been kinda busy though and I'm waiting to work on this site (I may actually cancel the site all together.)"

      So when will that be exactly? Hmmm sounds like a cop out to me and to take the heat away from you and your website.

      If you are going to call things scams without investigating it thoroughly yourself (by actually trying out a number of products in an industry you are slamming) be prepared to become the nail...
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  • Profile picture of the author Chr
    Another point, a relative of mine offered to give me three websites of his that were bringing in several hundred dollars a month. These websites were starting to decline as he no longer worked on them, but they had large user bases and had previously been making much more money. But I choose not to except them. Two of them were traffic exchanges, and almost ever product on them was either another traffic exchange or one of these silly magic bullet make money online sites. The other sites was another advertisement type site that was again being used by people promoting crummy products. I chose not to take the websites. I gave up on a good amount of money because I didn't feel right to facilitate the advertisement of sites like that.
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  • Profile picture of the author murtuza
    the main issue that people get scammed is because they are not willing to put in the required work to succeed online. All they want is a lazy push button riches system and therefore they get scammed by such hyped up sites.

    There are genuine products out there too that when used will take your online business to new heights.

    However there are scammers in almost every industry, it's not just internet marketing. Even in the offline world you will find scammers. However it is our duty to make sure that what we purchase is genuine and top notch quality...
    Signature

    Want to know my true story & how I got started with my internet business? What kind of problems I faced to get started & how I finally cracked the internet code? I have also prepared a 30 day blueprint for you to get started. No signup is required, just rush in to check out pure content ==> how to start an online business - And yeah, if you like what you read don't forget to 'like' & 'tweet' it. All the best :0)

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  • Profile picture of the author EugeneA
    Every business has it's negatives and positives. Those who give the industry a

    trustworthy name and those who destroy integrity.

    In this case you are only focusing on those who make it "look bad" , but let's be

    honest people like that exist in every aspect of life. Don't they?



    Anyway... After not getting results promised time and time again you would think that people

    would learn to build a foundation on their own. If they don't fine, take advantage of their

    stupidity, laziness, or whatever you may call it...
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author Chr
    In this case you are only focusing on those who make it "look bad" , but let's be

    honest people like that exist in every aspect of life. Don't they?
    Yes but I feel like these "bad guys" are far far more prominent in the make money online niche.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Chr View Post

      Yes but I feel like these "bad guys" are far far more prominent in the make money online niche.
      I disagree. They are more vocalized in the MMO niche, but not more prominent. Now, its true that every day there are newbies who come in here and other places online and try their BS to make a quick buck. None of them last long, and they are in the minority. It's a revolving door of idiots who quickly blow their reputation and are gone from the game. But like I said: they are a flash in a pan and then gone. If you would do the proper research and approach this like a business, then you would find the real marketers who really have something to teach you. Guess what? There's a lot of them.

      Here's the thing though; I've got you pegged as one of those guys who buys the "Make xxx a day products", waits ten minutes, and gets pissed when you aren't rich. Well, with a mindset like yours its easy to see why you see IM as a scam. Nobody is making you rich, so they must be scammers. It couldn't possibly be the fact that you are the only one who can really make yourself money, and that you can only do so by implementing the information in these "scam" products.


      Oh, so you didn't put the affiliate link in there to make money?

      Forgive me if I don't quite buy that.

      You know, I offer a free ebook on how to choose a good host, and I also offer recommendations. Before the links to the recommended hosts I have this statement:
      The hosts I recommend in the next section are hosts I currently use or hosts that my most trusted associates use and recommend. Being in the web design field, I naturally have made several friends in the field. These are the hosts that we use. Who better would know quality hosting than those of us that rely on it for our living?

      Having said that, I want to disclose that the links to the hosts I recommend are my affiliate links. I’ll earn a commission if you buy hosting through my link.
      Do you have a similar statement in your ebook?
      We all know he doesn't, and would never think of putting it lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author EugeneA
      Originally Posted by Chr View Post

      Yes but I feel like these "bad guys" are far far more prominent in the make money online niche.

      I can agree with this, these "bad guys" seem prominent because of the fact that they flash

      around shiny offers.

      "the shine will always outshine the no-shine" :rolleyes:

      And the barnicle heads take the bait time and time again. Some people provide honest aid.

      An example would be this forum, but how many newbies start here? How many noobies stay

      here? They eventually go seeking for gold.

      It's the few that gives the rest a bad name.
      Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Chr View Post

      Yes but I feel like these "bad guys" are far far more prominent in the make money online niche.
      This could be part of your problem. You're making condemnations that require supporting evidence but you're basing your statements not on evidence, but on your feelings. That's a procedural strategy that often backfires, sometimes spectacularly.

      Remember what I said a while back? When you find yourself in a hole sometimes the best thing to do is quit digging. There's nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong or went about saying something in the wrong way. Such an admission only means you're smarter today than yesterday. It's called a graceful exit.
      Signature

      Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Originally Posted by Chr View Post

    Thank you.

    That host is my very last recommendation and I only put it in there for the people who refuse to believe that the unlimited hosting route is a bad path.
    Oh, so you didn't put the affiliate link in there to make money?

    Forgive me if I don't quite buy that.

    You know, I offer a free ebook on how to choose a good host, and I also offer recommendations. Before the links to the recommended hosts I have this statement:
    The hosts I recommend in the next section are hosts I currently use or hosts that my most trusted associates use and recommend. Being in the web design field, I naturally have made several friends in the field. These are the hosts that we use. Who better would know quality hosting than those of us that rely on it for our living?

    Having said that, I want to disclose that the links to the hosts I recommend are my affiliate links. I’ll earn a commission if you buy hosting through my link.
    Do you have a similar statement in your ebook?
    Signature

    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author joemayerich
    Isn't everything in life some sort of sales pitch or scam? Humans need basic things (necessities) then they must be sold everything else.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrandyM
    I love threads like this. I'll whine and say something that will get under people's skin then maybe someone will click on my signature.

    I've been doing IM for 4 years. To me its a full-time job trying to figure out my own strategies, while also trying to use strategies taught by the guru's. I feel that I've learned a lot but still haven't learned it all. But the strategies I've been taught do make people money if you implement it.

    I have bought a lot of product launches in my time. All have claimed to make tons of money. yeah it probably worked for that guy. He found something that worked for him and maybe it would work for others but not everyone. Because not everyone has the same skills or IQ for that matter.

    I found that once I bought a guru product that even though I followed every step there were problems in they way I learn things. I might have chose the wrong niche. I missed a step, I wasn't willing to do what they described, was not looking to spend money to make money. All kinds of things that keep me from be successful. I agree the squeeze pages on almost all of these products don't say what it is your buying.

    But don't you feel like when you walk into Wal-Mart your not getting scammed just a little? I've bought tons of crap that I've had to return because it doesn't do what it describes. That's why there are 50 different kinds of the exact same items on the shelves. IM and product launches are no different.

    Master one thing first before moving on to anything else. Be determined and stay positive.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    I think your original post in all honesty was a diversion.
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  • Profile picture of the author SocialBlasting
    You've got to recognize that people can be scammers, the key is to not be one and you will last! You have to make sure your product does exactly what it says it does and helps the person you sold it to. The IM niche is funny, it sort of weeds out the idiots from the actual action takers that see what's going on.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chr
    Oh, so you didn't put the affiliate link in there to make money?
    No I do, I was wanting to clarify that I didn't put want of money over the desire to provide good advise.
    And yes I have a disclosure. Heres the one in the ebook, "Disclosure: I want to be honest and transparent; some of the hosts in this document pay me commissions for referrals. However those commissions are not why I recommend hosts. My top host recommendation is MediaLayer which has no affiliate program and pays me no commissions. Most of the hosts I recommend don't pay anywhere near as much for clients as the big hosting companies I've talked about."

    I'm considering removing the recommendations entirely from my ebook though for the final version.
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