My list are a bunch of a**holes

13 years ago

That doesn't seem terribly bad, especially if it's free traffic. Is there any reason why you couldn't repeat this for other niches and products?

Thanks
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JRemington 13 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

That doesn't seem terribly bad, especially if it's free traffic. Is there any reason why you couldn't repeat this for other niches and products?

I've got the same schema lined up in other 4 niches and signup rates are picking up. Will take a while though.

Yes I can and will repeat it. But I'm just concerned that there is something not quite right with the conversion of my list to sales. I'm sure there is a way I can do better.
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Andyhenry

13 years ago

Why do you think there's something wrong?

What makes you think that your numbers are not 'normal' (or better than normal)?

It sounds like for a list built from free traffic and being offered stuff that is not exactly what they found on the site - your results are normal.

You can't expect people to sign up to a cholesterol (for example) site and then wonder why they don't buy six-pack abs products.

You can't have your cake and eat it (to continue the health metaphor).

Either laser target your niche - or expect fairly low conversions.

What's even more important is your open rate of your messages. As long as they're opening them then you're keeping that relationship fresh. If they stop opening then there's a problem.

Andy

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JRemington

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Why do you think there's something wrong?

What makes you think that your numbers are not 'normal' (or better than normal)?

It sounds like for a list built from free traffic and being offered stuff that is not exactly what they found on the site - your results are normal.

You can't expect people to sign up to a cholesterol (for example) site and then wonder why they don't buy six-pack abs products.

You can't have your cake and eat it (to continue the health metaphor).

Either laser target your niche - or expect fairly low conversions.

What's even more important is your open rate of your messages. As long as they're opening them then you're keeping that relationship fresh. If they stop opening then there's a problem.

Andy

They don't seem normal because sales are not increasing with the signups, or at least not yet.

Each man who signs up has some kind of problem or desire to improve, and these health problems are related. Some of them could have 3 problems and buy 3 products.

I do agree with your comment about cholesterol and 6 pack abs, however, my offers are more closely related than that.

Yes my site is not laser-focused because a few months ago I though it'd be great to do build a more general site. Anyway, I've learned from that

Good point about my open rate, I'll keep it in mind.

Do you think charging for the freebie product would help?

Thanks
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xMarkPro

13 years ago

Originally Posted by JRemington

Yes my site is not laser-focused because a few months ago I though it'd be great to do build a more general site. Anyway, I've learned from that

Then why not start a blog network centered around that? The example I always use is golf. For example, setup multiple blogs, each with a slightly different subject -- golf tips, golf holidays & vacations, pro-tournament golf, golf equipment, etc.

This way you still get to keep your broad audience, but also laser target your niches, and on top of that, are spread out amongst the search engines even more. Here's a decent. albeit ugly article about it:

Create Your Own Blog Network

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JRemington

13 years ago

Originally Posted by xMarkPro

Then why not start a blog network centered around that? The example I always use is golf. For example, setup multiple blogs, each with a slightly different subject -- golf tips, golf holidays & vacations, pro-tournament golf, golf equipment, etc.

This way you still get to keep your broad audience, but also laser target your niches, and on top of that, are spread out amongst the search engines even more. Here's a decent. albeit ugly article about it:

Create Your Own Blog Network

This is an interesting plan. Plenty of work and I'll also have to use similar content with a different structure. But definitely one to consider.

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Samrath Gupta

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Either laser target your niche - or expect fairly low conversions.

What's even more important is your open rate of your messages. As long as they're opening them then you're keeping that relationship fresh. If they stop opening then there's a problem.

Andy

I agree with Andy's both points. If you want more conversions get LASER TARGETED visitor's....

Also keep an eye on your email opening rate because if they aren't opening your email then emailing them is useless and obviously u will not make money !!

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raleigh

13 years ago

What is the demographics of your list?
If it is more of a "general" list rather than a more targeted one, I would say
that you have minimal concerns. You may have a big list but then again the
final say on having conversions would be in the members of your list. Though a
large number does provide good traffic, for me a much more targeted demographics would have a higher conversion rate as you are sure that the members on that list would be more inclined to make conversions than a general one.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks
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JRemington

13 years ago

Originally Posted by raleigh

What is the demographics of your list?
If it is more of a "general" list rather than a more targeted one, I would say
that you have minimal concerns. You may have a big list but then again the
final say on having conversions would be in the members of your list. Though a
large number does provide good traffic, for me a much more targeted demographics would have a higher conversion rate as you are sure that the members on that list would be more inclined to make conversions than a general one.

Just my thoughts.

Let's say people come to my site because of 3 related health "problems". They could be signing up for more info on any of these and find more about it in my freebie.

Then I send more info in the 10 follow up mails on all 3 related health problems, as I'm aware they could be suffering from 1, 2 or 3 of these issues. I make sure I cover everything.

So yes they are more general, the advantage being I get more signups but probably a lower conversion rate, according to what you say.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by JRemington

I'm fairly new to the game and have a good health niche site leading the way with around 500 unique visitors per day and 30-50 new signups per day without paying for any traffic. This all seems pretty good on the face of it.

Nearly all of it seems very good.

The part where I'd try to "improve" is the proportion opting in. This is almost certainly the single most important thing you can do, at this stage, to add long-term value and income to your business.

Originally Posted by JRemington

I realise that it's still the vacation period and my hop count is lower than last month, but come on, 1000 subscribers, and only 5 sales a week from CB!

"Only"? :confused:

You're doing very well indeed, except that you could be opting in a higher proportion of visitors to your site.

Originally Posted by JRemington

So either:

* This is normal and my list just isn't big enough yet to be making $100 CB sales per day

It's that.

You can work this out for yourself. Look at the proportion of your list who would have a buy a product, for you to earn $100 per day at the moment. And then look at what people are saying about their overall ClickBank conversion rates, and see the disparity between the two? You need to grow your list, not sell more to the people you already have.

Don't worry, in principle, about your freebie being "too good". The purpose of your freebie is to ensure the open-rate for the autoresponder emails. Without doing that, you barely have a business.

Originally Posted by JRemington

I'm starting to wonder, having read a number of posts on this forum if I should just charge $5 for my info product and get a more focused list, instead of those freebie-seeking subscribers.

Considering you have what you consider "freebie-seeking subscribers" at the moment, you're doing very well indeed with them. Your results show that the thread's title isn't right.

And clearly you're attracting some good traffic, too. You simply need to find a way for a higher proportion to opt in. If you do that, it sounds like most other stuff here is more or less going to look after itself. It also sounds like you're probably in the top 1% of people who try to do what you're trying to do. The overwhelming majority make almost no sales at all.

Originally Posted by JRemington

PS. by the way, if it can help this site is a "man health" related one, and addresses several problems, not just one, which makes it more generalist

Well, this is an area in which list-building can be a little more difficult, I think, as it's the sort of list to which some people are reluctant to sign up. So, still,I think you're doing very well indeed, here, by the sound of it.

Give it time!

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JRemington

13 years ago

Thanks Alexa, much appreciated..again.

Thanks

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Ansar Pasha

Banned 13 years ago

Jremington, you're already aware that your list isn't targeted which is probably the BIGGEST bottleneck to your conversions right now.

Someone else in the health niche was asking about something similar, it was about how to convert more blog traffic into subscribers... she was using a lightbox pop up for a freebie only targeted to people who wanted to be slim (I think, the point will still be the same though).

... but that freebie doesn't mean anything to people who are trying to find "workout routines", right?

The solution could be to display a different freebie depending on what page the surfer arrives on... what you need to be doing is segmenting your list and laser focusing in on what they really want.

The next thing you need to work on is your offer/s... whether your own products or affiliates. It needs to be targeted towards the segments - you send nutrition info to people who are signed up for a nutrition freebie, and a workout routine report to people interested in routines.

The last thing you should work on is your actual copywriting skills. Pick up a few books or put up a few follow up emails for critique in the copywriting forum.

You can monetize a freebie list by immediately making a small low cost, front end product after they've opted in. You could also use the report you give away as a catalyst/presell to your front end offer... this will all take some time to learn and implement, but I think these are the main things you could improve.

Best,
Ansar

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Christian Chan

13 years ago

You can tell your list that they are a bunch of a**holes who never buy. I believe it will improve your conversion ratio

Originally Posted by JRemington

Hey everyone,

I'm fairly new to the game and have a good health niche site leading the way with around 500 unique visitors per day and 30-50 new signups per day without paying for any traffic. This all seems pretty good on the face of it.

Except that today, my list hits 1000 subscribers (and yes they are double opt-ins) and my sales are actually lower than they were 1 month ago.

I realise that it's still the vacation period and my hop count is lower than last month, but come on, 1000 subscribers, and only 5 sales a week from CB!

So having seen my sales again this morning, I've decided that I may be doing something wrong, or not.

So either:

* This is normal and my list just isn't big enough yet to be making $100 CB sales per day

OR, I'm doing something wrong which could be:

* My freebie is too good. 15 pages of fairly valuable information (albeit with some of my affiliate links stuffed in there). As a result, almost no one who signs up needs to buy anything after following my advice. My freebie advice helps them solve their health problems.

OR

* I'm not converting my list. My autoresponders deliver more great info, build trust and present the advantages of offers in what I consider to be a trustful manner and I believe the copy to be fairly well adjusted.

OR

* My list are a bunch of freebie-seeking jerk offs who never get their credit card out for anything - I need to charge for my product.

So, that said, what do you all think? I'm not yet skilled at the tracking and reporting side of things with CB and Aweber and I'm still working it out. I know I have improvements to make on reporting.

But I'm starting to wonder, having read a number of posts on this forum if I should just charge $5 for my info product and get a more focused list, instead of those freebie-seeking subscribers.

Remember, my list is health-related and has a good sign-up rate. There are plenty of reasons why it can succeed in making me good cash.

Any ideas and help are much appreciated.

Thanks

PS. by the way, if it can help this site is a "man health" related one, and addresses several problems, not just one, which makes it more generalist

Thanks

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Altug

13 years ago

30-50 opt-ins a day is great going! I get 700 visitors a day and get 5 opt-ins at best! lol But I do have the same problem as yourself, I made the mistake of going quite broad. Something to work on for me.
What method are you using to capture leads? I'm just using a light-box pop-up at the moment.
Also have you tried video's? You don't necessarily have to be in front of the camera. Get some cool "typography" style video's done with a voiceover..bet that would increase trust and conversions..(but of course if the topic doesn't target the specific subscribers needs, it won't help at all)

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JRemington

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Altug

30-50 opt-ins a day is great going! I get 700 visitors a day and get 5 opt-ins at best! lol But I do have the same problem as yourself, I made the mistake of going quite broad. Something to work on for me.
What method are you using to capture leads? I'm just using a light-box pop-up at the moment.
Also have you tried video's? You don't necessarily have to be in front of the camera. Get some cool "typography" style video's done with a voiceover..bet that would increase trust and conversions..(but of course if the topic doesn't target the specific subscribers needs, it won't help at all)

I'm using:

1. lightbox that opens 12 seconds after arriving on the site

2. I lay links everywhere in my articles using basic boxes that stand out for the reader and link to a squeeze that lists the advantages of my freebie

3. Sidebox opt in

By FAR the best success is method 2. The lightbox follows and the sidebox has a very low signup rate. But my multiple links to a squeeze page are what are bringing the signups in. You can easily do that too.

It's true that "general" is not the best way and the more focused niches work better. I may try vids too, thanks.

Thanks

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CTonline09

13 years ago

Seems to me like your doing just fine, perhaps try and use more of a pre sell attitude on your free guides that you giveaway or get someone to do this for you.

Also try and structure your autoresponder so your presenting a problem with a solution and yep the solution is in the buy now button!

Good luck

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Viramara

13 years ago

Maybe it's the geo location of your list? trust me - not meaning to stereotyping, but many third country subscribers in non-IM niche don't really understand how to use Paypal or they don't have credit card. or second possible cause, I dont know whats your landing page look like - but health niche is vast. there are weight loss, anti aging, natural remedies, yoga, etc....if you're selling weight loss product to yoga audience maybe they won't be really interested. but again, it's just my assumption.

I have an idea : why not making a poll to ask your subscribers feedback?

There's a free service for this in polldaddy.com. Bribe your subscriber (but now for good purpose) with a free ebook or something, and ask them to fill the poll like :
- what's their age,
- common interest in health topic,
- what information are they expecting for your future emails,
- what price should it sell if it's a paid product
- what payment processor do they prefer
- do they have experience in online shopping
- what they LOVE and HATE from your newsletter

from this information, maybe you can write a better email and product recomendation for your list. You might think your emails are useful and your free gifts have value, but that's according to YOU, right? who knows what's inside your subscribers' mind?

once again, it's not about what YOU THINK are good for your subscribers.

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JRemington

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Viramara

Maybe it's the geo location of your list? trust me - not meaning to stereotyping, but many third country subscribers in non-IM niche don't really understand how to use Paypal or they don't have credit card. or second possible cause, I dont know whats your landing page look like - but health niche is vast. there are weight loss, anti aging, natural remedies, yoga, etc....if you're selling weight loss product to yoga audience maybe they won't be really interested. but again, it's just my assumption.

I have an idea : why not making a poll to ask your subscribers feedback?

There's a free service for this in polldaddy.com. Bribe your subscriber (but now for good purpose) with a free ebook or something, and ask them to fill the poll like :
- what's their age,
- common interest in health topic,
- what information are they expecting for your future emails,
- what price should it sell if it's a paid product
- what payment processor do they prefer
- do they have experience in online shopping
- what they LOVE and HATE from your newsletter

from this information, maybe you can write a better email and product recomendation for your list. You might think your emails are useful and your free gifts have value, but that's according to YOU, right? who knows what's inside your subscribers' mind?

once again, it's not about what YOU THINK are good for your subscribers.

Thanks for that. The geolocation is interesting BUT many subscribers come from developed countries. Of course, there are still plenty from Asia and some from Africa too, just like everyone has I'd imagine.

Thanks

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Peter Gehr

13 years ago

The people on your list are probably not a bunch of a**holes.

It's probably more a matter of qualifying what they are on your list for.

In other words, if you've developed a rapport, and regularly send tips and tricks and make them happy by offering them something of value, then your list will remain loyal.
Even if you develop a personal relationship with them by being "real" yourself, and talking to them as friends and making them feel that you care about them, then they will definitely trust you, and trust what you sell--as long as it is relevant to them.

One of the best bits of advice I've heard goes something like this:

1. Give away 3 things that make people happy

2. Sell them things that make them even happier

3. Repeat steps 1 and 2

You've probably heard this before, but the money is not in the list, but it's in the relationship with the list.

If you provide them value they will stick around and it does seem that perhaps your low sales may be from the fact that they are just names on a list, and not people that you communicate with. In other words, if you've collected 1,000 people's contact details, but have not provided much for them, then they will continue sitting on their wallets.

For example, if the people on your list know your name and know you frequent the WF, and they read your post and see that you've referred to them as potential "a**holes" or "freebie-seeking jerk-offs" they may not ever buy from you.

Maybe you've done all the right things and you already have the rapport and connection with your list, and perhaps it just gets back to offering the wrong product to the wrong people, and if that's the case, then it's back to the drawing board.

Thanks
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JRemington

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Peter Gehr

The people on your list are probably not a bunch of a**holes.

It's probably more a matter of qualifying what they are on your list for.

In other words, if you've developed a rapport, and regularly send tips and tricks and make them happy by offering them something of value, then your list will remain loyal.
Even if you develop a personal relationship with them by being "real" yourself, and talking to them as friends and making them feel that you care about them, then they will definitely trust you, and trust what you sell--as long as it is relevant to them.

One of the best bits of advice I've heard goes something like this:

1. Give away 3 things that make people happy

2. Sell them things that make them even happier

3. Repeat steps 1 and 2

You've probably heard this before, but the money is not in the list, but it's in the relationship with the list.

If you provide them value they will stick around and it does seem that perhaps your low sales may be from the fact that they are just names on a list, and not people that you communicate with. In other words, if you've collected 1,000 people's contact details, but have not provided much for them, then they will continue sitting on their wallets.

For example, if the people on your list know your name and know you frequent the WF, and they read your post and see that you've referred to them as potential "a**holes" or "freebie-seeking jerk-offs" they may not ever buy from you.

Maybe you've done all the right things and you already have the rapport and connection with your list, and perhaps it just gets back to offering the wrong product to the wrong people, and if that's the case, then it's back to the drawing board.

The title of the thread is a bit extreme, I'll admit. But I'm not a copywriter for nothing

Not a single one of my list could possibly ever know who I am on this forum. It's a health niche. They don't even know what the WF is, let alone who I am.

I really just had a hard morning and got annoyed with my list not buying enough, as we all do at some point.

And I do everything to develop rapport and connection. I do suggest the right products.

I'll go with most people's replies that I'm doing fine and I was probably overreacting a bit.

I am still a bit concerned (on another thread) that CB is not recording all of my sales and this is something I'm looking into today. If that's what it is, I'll definitely make a post about it.

Thanks to everyone for helping out

Thanks

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by JRemington

* My freebie is too good. 15 pages of fairly valuable information (albeit with some of my affiliate links stuffed in there). As a result, almost no one who signs up needs to buy anything after following my advice. My freebie advice helps them solve their health problems.

OR

* I'm not converting my list. My autoresponders deliver more great info, build trust and present the advantages of offers in what I consider to be a trustful manner and I believe the copy to be fairly well adjusted.

OR

* My list are a bunch of freebie-seeking jerk offs who never get their credit card out for anything - I need to charge for my product.

OR
No one wants the products you are promoting. I can't imagine thinking that anything on Clickbank would suffice for medical/health advice.

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Fernando Veloso

13 years ago

WTF??

- bunch of a**holes?
- freebie-seeking jerk offs?

You think it's normal to treat your list this way? Wow... And you expect them to buy from you?

What a lol.

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JRemington

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

WTF??

- bunch of a**holes?
- freebie-seeking jerk offs?

You think it's normal to treat your list this way? Wow... And you expect them to buy from you?

What a lol.

I treat my list like I would a new girlfriend. This thread has more to do with my frustration and not making enough sales. Read into it a bit.

See my reply above about how they couldn't possibly know about this thread.

We are not all in the "IM list-building through the WF" plan you know Fernando.

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R Hagel 13 years ago

Originally Posted by JRemington

I treat my list like I would a new girlfriend.

You call her an asshole if you don't get what you want from her?

OK, I understand that you used that subject line because you were trying to get eyeballs on this thread. That's fine. But you went on to speculate that they might be freebie-seeking jerks. And you expressed some frustration that they're not buying.

The folks above who referred to your thread title and name-calling are making a valid point. If you're looking at your list (in frustration) and thinking, "Why aren't these assholes putting money in my pocket?"... then you're looking at this problem from the wrong angle.

Take a moment and make a mindset switch. Think: "What can I do to solve their problems?"

Take care of your list and they'll take care of you.

***

Again, I understand you deliberately chose the words and phrases you did in order to get eyeballs and responses to this thread. But perhaps it's still food for thought.

Becky

ETA: We were posting at the same time. So, you addressed the points in there. Perhaps food for thought for someone else with the same problem.
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- JRemington 13 years ago
  
  [QUOTE=R Hagel;4534763]You call her an asshole if you don't get what you want from her?
  
  Take a moment and make a mindet switch. Think: "What can I do to solve their problems?"
  
  Take care of your list and they'll take care of you.
  
  ***
  
  That's actually a very good point and we should all remind ourselves of this from time to time
  
  Thanks
  
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- JRemington 13 years ago
  
  [QUOTE=R Hagel;4534763]You call her an asshole if you don't get what you want from her?
  
  Lol, no I call her something else
  
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Big Al

13 years ago

Cool thread...

Things I'd think of trying:

1. If you've got the Clickbank product you're promoting - refer to it in your freebie and emails and keep your information telling people what they need to do, but not the exactly how bits (ie. it's described in more detail on page 34 of the KickButt Guide to Haemorrhoids)

2. Run an identical squeeze page and use Google Website optimizer to rotate the traffic between the two. Difference is squeeze page A has as different auto-responder message to squeeze page B. Then see which gets the most sales.

3. Do the above but keep the autoresponders the same and change the product recommendation.

Either way... sounds like a good problem to be having because you got results to work with and traffic ain't no problem.

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Ian McConnell

13 years ago

Originally Posted by JRemington

I'm fairly new to the game and have a good health niche site leading the way with around 500 unique visitors per day and 30-50 new signups per day without paying for any traffic. This all seems pretty good on the face of it.

Are you running Google Analytics on the site? If you are, set up goals for each part of your sales funnel. This will then give you all the data you need to make the necessary tweaks.

Thanks
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JRemington

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ian McConnell

Are you running Google Analytics on the site? If you are, set up goals for each part of your sales funnel. This will then give you all the data you need to make the necessary tweaks.

Yep, ok good advice, thanks.

Thanks

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Eduard Stinga

13 years ago

A list of proven buyers is ten times better than a list of freebie seekers, so you might want to focus on that, even if you make your eBook $4.99 and get less subscribers

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JRemington

13 years ago

Originally Posted by EduardS

A list of proven buyers is ten times better than a list of freebie seekers, so you might want to focus on that, even if you make your eBook $4.99 and get less subscribers

Good point, I'm thinking of doing this in a month or so.

Thanks

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David Keith

13 years ago

it sounds like you have a good thing going. dont get greedy and rush things just to make a few extra dollars now.

you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned your not that great at testing and tracking. get to work on that stuff, and you will get the answers you are looking for.

there are just so many variables when it comes to this sort of stuff. many of us with some experience can make some educated guesses at ways to improve your system. but at the end of the day, they are just that...guesses.

most people never get near that much traffic, so you got that part down. and honestly, like many have said, i am not sure your numbers are all that far off of what i would call normal.

you might consider a survey to your list with a another freebie to get them to participate to help you figure out what they really would be interested in buying and such.

you could set this system up cheap in your autoresponder system and have a nice stream of information coming in to help you make better decisions on what to offer your list.

but dont get so frustrated...you are doing really well.

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loveday101

13 years ago

Just offer your list 'recurring products' -- that way, if you make 20 sales a month at $20/month -- your guarenteed to get $400/month whether you get sales the next month or not...

You get another 20 sales next month -- thats $800/month guarenteed... Just build it

Thanks
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JohnMcCabe 13 years ago

J, I think part of your frustration is coming from how you are looking at your list size.

According to your own figures, you are adding ~350 people per week and making 5 sales. That's a conversion rate of ~1.4%. Not stellar, but not too shabby either. Especially for the kind of general, 'one from column A, one from column B' traffic you describe.

Depending how long your sequence is, a portion of those 1,000 subs have seen your show and either bought or not, so you really can't keep counting them unless you are continuing to contact them. If it's the kind of list where once the sequence is done, you stop contacting them, you can't keep counting them.

Another thing to consider is whether someone with one of the three related problems you tackle really cares whether you can offer something about the other two. You might be losing two thirds of your buyers before you even address their specific problem.

Maybe the answer is multiple lists. Instead of stuffing affiliate links in your freebie, try using it to get people onto a better targeted list (or lists). Or maybe you need multiple freebies for multiple lists. Only one way to find out...
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- Kay King 13 years ago
  
  Each man who signs up has some kind of problem or desire to improve, and these health problems are related. Some of them could have 3 problems and buy 3 products.
  
  I understand what you mean and that's a good way to approach a list. I'm not sure your numbers are "off" when you consider free list, etc.
  
  The quality of the products could be an issue. If product#1 provides help/relief for the initial "problem", people would be more likely to follow your advice and buy for a related problem. It one product doesn't provide a solution....not as likely to buy additional products.
  
  kay
  
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  jamawebinc 13 years ago
  
  If you are wondering why people on your list are not buying, just email them and ask them why they are not buying. You have a list, use it to get feedback.
  
  If you think of it in real life terms - If you told your friend Paul about this great product that you bought, why it was great, how it helped you, etc.
  
  Then saw Paul a week later and asked him if he bought the product yet, and he said "no" you would ask him "why?" You wouldn't guess why.
  
  Each email on your list is a "Paul" with a reason why they didn't buy. After you clear out a large number of people who really "are just not that interested" you'll get a long list of objections that you could never think of on your own and you can either personally address each one or address these objections in your sales material because chances are other people who don't answer you have the same objections.
  
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wgempire

13 years ago

Maybe I missed it above but what works and makes me buy products is a bonus, everyone wants as much as they can get for their money. Say anyone who buys this and emails me clickbank receipt will get this as a way of saying thank you. Thats how I have gotten a ton of great im products.

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Buddha94

13 years ago

This isn't that bad, maybe you aren't introducing something cutting-edge enough to make them convert the sale.

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travlinguy

13 years ago

Maybe they feel the warm fuzzy vibe of you calling them a**holes and actually think the same of you and your offers. :rolleyes:

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Kevin_Hutto

13 years ago

There's an old country song that says: "You been married 9 times... Hell, maybe its you!"

Just kidding. But in reality, like others have said those numbers are normal. So many people make such crazy deal about list size - but most of them don't really understand the numbers. Look at this:

List of 100,000
Send out a broadcast email
20% Open rate = 20,000 opens
50% click rate on the opens = 10,000 clicks
1% Conversion rate = 100 sales

Say its a clickbank product that pays you $22. Then you made $2200 off a promotion to a 100k list. It seems like it would be better doesnt it? But that is how the numbers really break down. And thats not even factoring in refunds and deliverability on big lists, etc...

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Bill_Z

13 years ago

Some things you can try:

1) Instead of sending all the subs to the same list and advertising all 3 products, segment them into 3 lists with the 3 offers. If the offers are very different, I think this is something you definitely should do.
2) Offer bonus offers in the email follow-ups. Offer other products as well that aren't advertised normally on the salespage.
3) Offer discount offers in the email follow-ups. Add some urgency to these offers by only offering it for a designated amount of time.

It's possible your free info is too valuable, but I'm more a believer in over-delivering on the free stuff. The follow-ups and freebies should be giving them the "what" they should do, and then your paid product should give them the "how" to do it. Difficult to say without seeing the product and freebies though whether you are giving too much away.

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rts2271 13 years ago

I hope no one from here is on your list lol.

On a side note a list has a very finite shelf life based on niche, and the list owners involvement. If you are constantly squeezing for cash but not refilling the cup with content most lists will die off in 2-3 weeks.
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JRemington 13 years ago

Great advice all and I'll also start working out how to test different lists.
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BIG JOHN

13 years ago

Agree with some other posts. Category is a little broad, you have freebie seekers and it sounds as though your attitude towards them is strictly self serving. I'd say your darn lucky with the conversions you're getting.

Thanks
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JRemington

13 years ago

Originally Posted by BIG JOHN

Agree with some other posts. Category is a little broad, you have freebie seekers and it sounds as though your attitude towards them is strictly self serving. I'd say your darn lucky with the conversions you're getting.

It's just the opposite in fact - I got the impression I was just attracting the kind of web surfer who goes around, getting free reports and either unsubscribing or never doing anything else.

Obviously this kind of subscriber is what we all want to avoid.

I was also concerned about giving them too much free information so that they never buy anything..

I give tons of valuable info in a huge fun-packed freebie and over 30 bonanza follow up emails.

For me, a self-serving attitude is more apparent in a list I signed up to about 4 days ago. I had about 15 emails from that guy, 3 or 4 per day, every one of them telling me to buy this or that.

Each to their own and whatever works for you, I'm not judging it.

But my goal is to provide value. I'd wouldn't say I'm 'lucky with conversions', or maybe I am, but I'm not after their cash. Well I am, kind of :rolleyes:

But first of all my goal is to help them out.

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Burton Lancaster

13 years ago

Viewing your list as assholes is going to affect your email copy ... If you just can't change your opinion then maybe you should find out how to sell to assholes better.

Thanks
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JRemington

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Burton Lancaster

Viewing your list as assholes is going to affect your email copy ... If you just can't change your opinion then maybe you should find out how to sell to assholes better.

Yep agreed. I have to admit, I don't really think they are assholes, sorry

But it's great for getting people to read and reply on a forum

.

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VaultBoss

13 years ago

There is only ONE and ONLY metrics to assess your list building efforts effectiveness ... that is the amount of money you will make per subscriber
(be it in the first month, or on the 'life-time' of that subscriber)

5 sales * $100 is something, while 5 sales * $10 is something else .. and conversion vary a LOT!

There are many tricks and tips on how to improve your efforts - the simplest thing to try is to split test (even the simple A/B type) various factors, and measure the response.

Start from there, take the winner as your initial control and start changing the challenger and see what happens.

Hope this helps and give you good hints, as the topic is much too vast to confine an answer inside a simple forum post...

Thanks

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Coby

13 years ago

How can you call them freebie seekers when you haven't taken the extra steps necessary to fleece out the "buyers"...

Your sending them to affiliate products...

Create your own product or at least a one time offer that separates the actual buyers from the freebie seekers...

Then you can figure out who the @$$ holes are.. because right now it's looking like it's you...

Nurture your confirmed buyers and market to the freebie seekers more aggressively...

How often are you sending them offers? How are they seeing these offers? After opt-in? In an email? How are you providing them value? Why should they read your emails?

Change your attitude - your list is your life blood!

Just my .02

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JRemington

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Coby

How can you call them freebie seekers when you haven't taken the extra steps necessary to fleece out the "buyers"...

Your sending them to affiliate products...

Create your own product or at least a one time offer that separates the actual buyers from the freebie seekers...

Then you can figure out who the @$$ holes are.. because right now it's looking like it's you...

Nurture your confirmed buyers and market to the freebie seekers more aggressively...

How often are you sending them offers? How are they seeing these offers? After opt-in? In an email? How are you providing them value? Why should they read your emails?

Change your attitude - your list is your life blood!

Just my .02

Yes I think I'll create my own product fairly soon.

I send them offers once every 4 or 5 messages that they see in an email after optin.

In between, I provide value in terms of tips and techniques that help. That is why they even open my emails at all.

I don't have an attitude towards my list, of course not, I have no idea why anyone might believe I think they are assholes :rolleyes:

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Itachi 13 years ago

Just have to throw something here that if you treat your potential customers of as**holes just because they're not buying makes me think that you don't care enough about your customers .. you know you have to get the mindset of "helping people" not "milking people"

Anyway it sounds like some good warriors already told you some good advices here.

In my opinion you're doing very good you just need to focus on growing your list.

Try to work on your emails too, do some presell and split testing eventually.
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Lena 12 years ago

I would just ask what they want. Send them some survey. They will let you know what they are willing to buy

Good Luck
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nicholasb

13 years ago

Thats a 2% conversion rate. Which some people will argue is good. Which it may be for them but I personally wouldn't be to happy with that number either.

There are a few things I would do right away, I wouldn't change anything drastic, but I would make sure I was pre-framing correctly in the report, I would make sure I was using scarcity in a real and believable way, I would make sure all of my persuasion elements were top notch and also make sure I presented them with some sort of irresistible offer. Like some bonus products for purchasing through the report.

All of that stuff can send conversions through the sky. Which could be done just going through your report and re-wording things a little.

Also At this point it would be a good idea to create or have created your own product created to sell through the report that can instantly double your profit right there.

Also on the other end of things, don't get frustrated ad start casting out negative vibrations towards your list. You may not think it matters since they can't hear you but it matters that's all I can really say on that.

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Chris Sorrell

13 years ago

Do you have any idea where most of your subscribers are actually from? Bear in mind that nearly a quarter of the world's population are in India and other asian countries where they may speak english but don't have paypal or credit cards or simply can't afford to buy anything online.

I made that mistake by building a sizeable list through cell phone marketing a few years ago when I was targeting 'the world' instead of just english speaking countries. When I started looking into where my subscribers were from it was almost entirely made up of india, pakistan, nigeria, uganda, philippinnes etc. Totally worthless.

If you ran a bar that served free drinks would you be surprised if people drank you dry?

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2 replies

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JRemington

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Sorrell

Do you have any idea where most of your subscribers are actually from? Bear in mind that nearly a quarter of the world's population are in India and other asian countries where they may speak english but don't have paypal or credit cards or simply can't afford to buy anything online.

I made that mistake by building a sizeable list through cell phone marketing a few years ago when I was targeting 'the world' instead of just english speaking countries. When I started looking into where my subscribers were from it was almost entirely made up of india, pakistan, nigeria, uganda, philippinnes etc. Totally worthless.

If you ran a bar that served free drinks would you be surprised if people drank you dry?

Good point and there are a number of people from India and Nigera who sign up, along with plenty of others. But the highest proportion are from Western countries, namely 50% of signups come from the USA.

But I don't know how I could filter out by region. I guess I could cull them, but then we have to know that some of these countries have such fast growth that in 5 years or so they may even be spending more on line than anyone else.

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drmani 12 years ago

Some lists don't work well, or the way we expect them to.

What caught my attention, though, was the ATTITUDE as a list
owner that's reflected by the title of this thread...

"My list are a bunch of a**holes"

Thinking of subscribers as people with problems that you, as
the list owner, are PRIVILEGED to help solve, seeing the
attention they are paying you as a GIFT (and not something
you're entitled to), and viewing your role as guide and
well-wisher in a different light than merely to make X
sales in a specified period of time might alter the
reaction you're getting from your list.

And then again, maybe not.

That's the reason to test.

But this I can tell, from 15 years of email marketing
experience - the way I outlined in the paragraph above is
very fulfilling and satisfying, even when not profitable
(which is rare!)

All success
Dr.Mani

P.S. - I'm also a skilled copywriter, but sometimes it's
hard to mask 'attitude' well enough with 'copy' - and
when slips show, through sub-liminal gaffes, audiences
are quick to latch onto it.

Far easier to be 'natural' - and actually FEEL the way
you no doubt already do - the overwhelming desire to
add 'benefit-value' to your folks!

That super-charges your copy, too
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frankiej

13 years ago

Great little thread. Look like some of the people are saying Shooting for 1% is very normal and I take that all day. Even 1/2% your numbers are very normal my friend especially from a free product list.

We have some 100% buyers list and 2.5 is what I get.Dont always stuff links into everything they get from you. Its nice to get info from a list i opt-in to and not be looking at a sales attempt everytime. Your on the way. Just take it slow.

Like the math posted above its reality my friend just keep building the list. I felt the same way when I started. But trust me your on the way.
The learning curve is painful and we all must go through it otherwise everyone would be a success and it just is not so.

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timpears

13 years ago

$100 per day from 1,000 list is a bit high, in my opinion. $1,000 per month, maybe. People are on holiday in the northern hemisphere right now, so I would expect less. So unless your list is focused on the southern hemisphere, I wouldn't be complaining too much right now.

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murtuza

13 years ago

here are some tips you can use...

1. As per normal tracking if you have a list of 1000 subscribers you should be making $1000 per month if you are doing things right.

2. Send your subscribers an email every 15 days asking them their most pressing problems in your niche. Then reply back to people helping them out with an answer. Create a pdf out of the answers and mail them to your list. Now mail any product offer, your conversion will go up.

3. Create a teleseminar or a webinar, yes free, and do a question and answer session with your subscriber and share some valuable content. This will boost relationship and your conversion.

4. Build a product funnel starting today. Your funnel should typically have around 25 to 50 products and around 6 to 9 months of content loaded with sales pitches, just dont give everything to your list for free, even sell them. Having a funnel in place will boost your income constantly as you will have pretty good amount of products to sell to your list.

5. Create high ticket products and coaching program. This will tremendously boost your income. If you cannot do this just hire someone to create one. Having even 5 out of 1000 leads roll in your $200 pm coaching program will make a huge difference to your bottom line.

Hope this helps...

[ 1 ] Thanks
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JRemington

13 years ago

Originally Posted by murtuza

here are some tips you can use...

1. As per normal tracking if you have a list of 1000 subscribers you should be making $1000 per month if you are doing things right.

2. Send your subscribers an email every 15 days asking them their most pressing problems in your niche. Then reply back to people helping them out with an answer. Create a pdf out of the answers and mail them to your list. Now mail any product offer, your conversion will go up.

3. Create a teleseminar or a webinar, yes free, and do a question and answer session with your subscriber and share some valuable content. This will boost relationship and your conversion.

4. Build a product funnel starting today. Your funnel should typically have around 25 to 50 products and around 6 to 9 months of content loaded with sales pitches, just dont give everything to your list for free, even sell them. Having a funnel in place will boost your income constantly as you will have pretty good amount of products to sell to your list.

5. Create high ticket products and coaching program. This will tremendously boost your income. If you cannot do this just hire someone to create one. Having even 5 out of 1000 leads roll in your $200 pm coaching program will make a huge difference to your bottom line.

Hope this helps...

Yes it helps a lot. I massively appreciate the gem of advice. Thanks

Thanks
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murtuza 13 years ago

Originally Posted by JRemington

Yes it helps a lot. I massively appreciate the gem of advice. Thanks

I am glad you liked the tips buddy... it could be worth thousands
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Onora Oz

13 years ago

There's really great info and advice in this thread. I just wanted to add a few things I've learned from experience.

I'm running several lists in several health niches. Some of those lists are hosting a good watchtower for my competitors. How do I know that? Because I'm spying on their lists, too.

You said you didn't know how to segment your lists according to regions. This link may help if you use Aweber...

How Do I Segment Lists Based On Geographic Data? :: AWeber Knowledge Base

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Viramara

13 years ago

oopsie....I think I miss one more tip....

check and improve your email open rate. make your subscribers want to open your emails.
- are your subject emails catchy enough?
- are your emails rehashed cliches that your subs can find it anywhere without them having to read your emails?
- are your subs generally receive too much emails from you or from others in general?
(more than 3 emails a week can be considered too much to some)
- AIDA = attention, interest, desire, action

many people thought if you have 1000 list and 2% conversion then it means 20 buys. that's not always the case. if out of 1000 people on a mailing list only 40% opens the emails and 2% of them buys, you only have = 1000 x 40% x 2% = 8 buys!!!

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Ricochet

12 years ago

Wow lots of replies.. some better than others.. here's my two cents..

I have been studying list building and sales funnels a lot lately and paid for 2 high end courses.. BOTH of which made one thing abundantly clear..

DON'T go wider with your sales funnel.. GO DEEPER..

Basically you aren't converting that well.. The answer is NOT to keep bulking up your list with new subscribers..
Work on your current sales funnel and keep tweaking and monitoring.

If you are converting at one %1 then tweak till u hit %2 then %3 and so on..

Then when you have tweaked your funnel to almost perfection you know that any new subscribers you add will convert better instantly..

Set up a leads funnel and buyers funnel..

Funnel all leads into the leads funnel.. Once they buy something funnel them to a new list (the buyers list).. someone who has bought from you before is much more likely to buy again.

You can use awebers "automation" rule to instantly move subscribers from one funnel to another once they fill out the new web form (make filling out the buyers web form compulsary from the thank you page)..

OK, so now you can start to sort out the dead leads from the good leads..

So some may disagree but I have had way to many freebie seekers on my list in my day to care

I would suggest soft selling your leads for a period of thirty days..

If after 30 days they are still on your leads list and not your buyers list (meaning they aint bought nothing).. Then it's time to promote the hell out of them..

Continually hit them with promo e mails until they end up either on your buyers list or they unsubscribe.

Who cares if they unsubscribe! Not good having a list of 10k if only 200 people click your links in the e mails..

Over time you will be left with the prospects who are serious in your niche and willing to spend money.

Thanks
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Nightengale 12 years ago

Congrats on your traffic and list-building success!

There's already been a lot of great advice here. Another thing to consider: make your freebie fairly short, NOT long.

The reason for this is two-fold:

1. People's attention spans are short. We all skim more and more these days. Heck, we even barely pay attention long enough to remember WHY we should confirm the e-mail!

2. Your goal is to get them to get through the freebie and click through to your site to BUY. I know you want to overdeliver and give good info. But too much information can hinder people from actually clicking through.

Tip sheets and checklists are great because they're short and to-the-point. So you can throw in your "Buy now!" link much sooner. And tip sheets and checklists lend themselves beautifully to the health and fitness niche.

(BTW, this advice about a short freebie doesn't come from me. My mentor, a multi-million-dollar business owner, advised me to keep my freebies short.)

Hope this helps!

Michelle
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celente

12 years ago

My list are a bunch of assholes.

Tells me 3 things.

1) You are not treating them right.

2) You do not accept you have to work HARDER to gain trust of people these days, Probably more after the dot com crash.

3) You will ALWAYS have some of those average assholes on your list that want everything. That is a given.

Gain their trust, and give to them. I think these days people want more free stuff, and I mean quality stuff before they decide to buy.

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John Durham

12 years ago

Sounds like on a "real" level, your list is giving you back the same vibe you hold toward them ultimately...That happens.

Allen Says "says" (lol) that, whatever feelings we feel when we send out a letter spread to the readers, even when we dont put them out on our sleeve.

I tend to agree in my experience.

Try treating your woman like new even after she IS to use your earlier analogy...

Otherwise, it could be anything. Even if your copy is good... maybe you are marketing to a bunch of people who dont have credit cards...

Thanks

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HeySal

12 years ago

You say you have broadened focus in your niche. Is your freebie targeted to one sector of that niche? You may want to give a freebie that will hit the whole sphere to pull in those with both general and specific interests, then use more targeted products to get those with specific issues to buy. Not each person on your list will be interested in each product, but if you can offer each person on the list products targeted to their specific needs, you will keep your list purchasing without wearing them out.

It's a good niche with lots of areas to expand into that can cross targeted interest boundaries. So what if only 5/1000 buy this week - next week a different 5 may buy, another week you might hit a subject that 20/100 will want. That may not give you a living now, but when your list starts hitting 5 digits it's not going to hurt you any.

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JCorp

12 years ago

it sounds like you may just need to give it more time...build a stronger relationship with you list, maybe they'll start showing you more love:rolleyes:

Thanks

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My list are a bunch of a**holes

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