is IM for IM in a recession?

by Dano77
43 replies
I'm hearing guys getting out of IM. I'm hearing people say the industry itself is tanking.

I being involved in this for sooo many years, earning my living from it for so long find all this hard to believe.

Is the Internet not a profitable place to make money? ... Yes it is!
Are people still making filthy money online? ... Yes they are...
Is there always going to be crap promises in the market? ... Yup!

So, what's the big deal here... Either people are loosing faith that there still *is* gold in them thar hills, OR... It's a copy thing and those who are jumping ship have lost their touch in selling.

What say you?
#recession
  • Profile picture of the author JustFelix
    I just train a few family members to make a few thousand of dollars a month so that's more people making money. The internet is still very profitable and will be even after I'm no longer alive most likely.

    Not sure how long it'll last, but it'll last long enough for everyone that's alive right now.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    marketing on the internet has not even peaked yet.

    i do think there will be so much needed cleaning out of the fakes and such, but thats just a natural part of business in any industry.

    as far as the how to IM and MMO niche. the popularity of the wso forum indicates it is not in any real danger. there are 3k+ people in there 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

    i do feel the industry will mature a bit, and that many of the pretenders will find it harder and harder to succeed.

    i also feel that google and the ftc and many others will continue to attempt to bring the IM industry out of the shadows and into the main stream. thus making them comply with more regulations and such. but legitimate business will not have much trouble adapting to this situation.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrandonLee
    People are beginning, slowly, to realize that the Internet is not something unique and unto itself: It's one more media platform that people can use to advertise and market.

    That said, it's still the cheapest and easiest way to get started for most people.

    In terms of the IM industry itself, I certainly don't see that slowing down at all. Some of the players may change, some of the tactics they use etc. But as long as the economy is bad, people looking to make money online are going to be among the most desperate of all buyers, and when that's the case there is always a market.

    During past recessions Make Money, Bizop etc have always experienced robust growth. This one has not proven to be an exception, and like I said, so long as the economy remains uncertain that trend is likely to continue and accelerate IMO.
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  • Profile picture of the author RAMarketing
    Not going anywhere as long as there's a dream for sale and people too lazy to work for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nicole G
    I think too many people have sold weak sauce in the IM market for so long, it has tarnished the entire market. But not everyone does this, so it's a bit like Russian roulette when you buy. Sometimes you get crap, other times you win.

    Since the industry itself has tarnished reputation, the sales won't come as easily as they used to, sure. But the people who spend the time and energy prove they actually know something seem to do well, as they do in any market.

    Look at how someone like Frank Kern credentializes himself, especially on his most recent product where he really starts at the beginning and talks about how he used to be a loser. Then he gradually walks you through his transformation over the years. Lots of proof, great real life stories. That's the sort of thing you do in a tarnished market. You prove your own growth and experience. You show 'em you're the real thing, and people will still buy. They just want to make sure they're getting something real, and not another fib.

    In a tarnished market, I think you stand the chance to do even better than you would otherwise. If you have something good to sell and are willing to work on your proof elements, it's like you're playing in a much smaller pool than everyone else. That means if you're one of the few bright spots in the market, you and a select few others will make the bulk of the money that used to be spread out amongst the masses.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stunata
    IM is not going away. I've been in the print/newspaper advertising sales business for the last 20 years. Newspapers are dying.
    IM is a growing market. The internet is going to destroy the newspapers in the next several years. Technology will wipe out those news stands on the street corners. Look at what happened to phone booths. (Gone). There are going to be empty boxes with a barcode you can scan as you walk by. Several large newspapers are offering free tablets for a 2 year subscription.
    You don't see the writing on the wall. There is gold in them thar hills.
    Take a look at technology trends. You don't have to be pure SEO to make money on or with the internet. And you don't have to do scammy things like some people do to make a quick buck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dano77
    Thanks for the responses... I think my gut feelings are right. The IM space is still profitable, but... I mean selling internet marketing products via the internet itself... But you gotta have hella proof and cred to make it.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Selling online has never been better, I would think.

    I don't see it going anywhere.

    However, it may change. It may change a lot in the next 10 years. We will definitely see and interesting times are definitely ahead.

    Facebook has changed the game. And smart phones have changed the game. I think those are the two biggest changes of the last few years.

    There will be some avenues that will not work as well as they did in the past with the same strategies, sometimes you have to shake it up.

    Those successful guys who get out of the IM game maybe just got tired of testing and adapting and saying it doesn't work anymore, but really it's just them that isn't working anymore.

    That's how I see it.

    Also, people change, interests change. If you were one of these guys who could pull in millions on one launch perhaps you want to take it easy for a while and just invest that money in a safe place and live a little? Some of that may be going on, as well...
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  • Profile picture of the author beakon
    I don't know about you but I like the direction I'm headed.
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    • Profile picture of the author OhSusanna
      Originally Posted by beakon View Post

      I don't know about you but I like the direction I'm headed.

      DITTO!

      I think a recession is a time where we will see more people looking to create wealth for themselves. The internet is still the Wild West. There is still lots of new territories to chart.
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  • Profile picture of the author Big Al
    I'm up for boycotting the recession... anyone else in?

    Check out Zig Ziglar on what he said about boycotting recessions. We've already come out of one in the real world and our offline business grew because we kept advertising and improving our product - while everyone else battoned down the hatches.

    P.S. Thinking of everyone on the East Coast of the US over the next couple of days - stay safe!
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    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by Big Al View Post

      I'm up for boycotting the recession... anyone else in?

      Check out Zig Ziglar on what he said about boycotting recessions. We've already come out of one in the real world and our offline business grew because we kept advertising and improving our product - while everyone else battoned down the hatches.

      P.S. Thinking of everyone on the East Coast of the US over the next couple of days - stay safe!
      If 10 percent of people are unemployed, that means 90 percent of people are employed and have money to spend.

      The economy does not just completely come to a halt.

      That's the attitude you've got to have and glad you've had success with it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Christian Chan
        Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

        If 10 percent of people are unemployed, that means 90 percent of people are employed and have money to spend.

        The economy does not just completely come to a halt.

        That's the attitude you've got to have and glad you've had success with it.
        LOL mate.

        Those 10% will take money from the 90% either from unemployment checks or borrowing or even stealing from the 90%.

        In addition, there is inflation to everyday's goods. So, even the 90% feel the hurt. They will be careful to spend. Thus, the economy goes to a halt.
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        • Profile picture of the author Nicole G
          Originally Posted by Christian Chan View Post

          LOL mate.

          Those 10% will take money from the 90% either from unemployment checks or borrowing or even stealing from the 90%.

          In addition, there is inflation to everyday's goods. So, even the 90% feel the hurt. They will be careful to spend. Thus, the economy goes to a halt.
          The "covert" tax of inflation is especially insidious. It makes everyone poor, and punished those who "saved". It makes me sad thinking about how long it took to make the money I have in my bank accounts, and how much less it's worth today than it was at the beginning of the year. Arrrgh! (How I wish I bought gold at $800 to $1k!!)

          The PM of countries like Brazil, which recently dropped it's poverty rate from 30% to 15% (the same as the US), is refreshingly honest about how awful inflation is... and how it can quickly bury people with marginal incomes, and make people with normal incomes feel "poor".

          Steve Wynn talked extensively about how people who used to feel they were leading a good life in Vegas, now feel poor:

          Listen to the whole thing. Steve makes a lot of sense, and I bet he's an entrepreneur a lot of people here respect.
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  • Profile picture of the author aneel90
    I don't know what's up with this recession stuff... but I've seen some of the best and most influential businesses rise through a recession.

    It's not the recession that is stopping one from making money, but the mindset that you have set for yourself. People are still making a lot of money by coming up with innovative ideas and changing the way they run their businesses.
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  • Profile picture of the author ameerulislam10
    How can this be over when most people in the world haven't yet reached the internet marketing world. If you feel like it's in recession now it's because you are possibly hitting the saturated market. The market will never run out, but will be harder to compete.
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  • Profile picture of the author focusedmind
    On the contrary, IM is getting bigger and bigger...
    More and more people are buying products online.
    There are many opportunities worldwide, especially if you speak different languages...
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  • Profile picture of the author PatrickP
    boycott the recession and 90% employment.

    I like both of those thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author Ross Vegas
      One might argue it has been declining for a long time.

      Google Insights for Search

      BUT... that's not the whole picture. Other semi related searches about marketing online are trending up.

      I think that graph just shows new comers may not be as fast and strong to the market, but despite it... the existing market is desperate for a good authority source since the recent "push button" craze took hold and there is little trust to go around.

      Trust is a premium value proposition right now and anyone that earns it can hold a big chunk of the current market.

      Which is likely why captain kern un-"retired" as I see a void in overall market leadership right now.

      I just hope folks keep churn and burning their lists as I will be swiftly acquiring and retaining the fallout.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    I think it's only just started. I see a huge future ahead and we are at the start and anyone who does well now will be huge in the very near future. We are still trying to figure out how best to exploit and utilise the power we have. I think the biggest change will be the income that will filter down to all corners of the world. The internet is going to financially liberate a lot of people and I look forward to witnessing the social change that will bring about.

    It's still a bit like the wild west and humans are still finding their own moral boundries in this lawless environment but as styles, traditions and methods slowly become more accepted it will settle down into an obvious and regular source of income for many. I'm excited for the future of online commerce.
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  • Profile picture of the author getbizy
    Personally i've been into online marketing for a while now and i'm still yet to make a head way in terms of earning money online....but i know and believe there is money to be made online....for anyone into this business perseverance and commitment is a must have characteristics someday you would be successful
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  • Profile picture of the author tayuyaa
    You guys are actually just talking about the USA market in my opinion. I live in france and I can tell you that the rules here are different from yours in USA.

    Here there is no big gurus and big product launches about IM/MMO, nobody is aware of this here. If you type "make money online" in french in google.fr you'll be amazed about the result, make money playing casinos online, how to cheat the casino etc..but not a single product or very few talking about legit ways to make money online through paid traffic or SEO and so on...

    So id say that it's definitely not dead, whether it's here or there, there is stilll a lot of places to make a killing online...and I'm sure that in USA a lot of people have never heard of IM...
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
      Originally Posted by tayuyaa View Post

      ...

      Here there is no big gurus and big product launches about IM/MMO, nobody is aware of this here. If you type "make money online" in french in google.fr you'll be amazed about the result, make money playing casinos online, how to cheat the casino etc..but not a single product or very few talking about legit ways to make money online through paid traffic or SEO and so on...

      ...
      That sounds like an incredible opportunity to me.

      Avez-vous un monsieur site Web?
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      • Profile picture of the author tayuyaa
        Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

        That sounds like an incredible opportunity to me.

        Avez-vous un monsieur site Web?
        Ahahah! Lol! Yes I do Sir!

        But you dont say "Avez-vous un monsieur site web?" but "Avez-vous un site web monsieur?"
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  • Profile picture of the author Marketing Merit
    I think it would be naive to ignore the economic situation regardless of what it currently is. You simply have to adjust your business model to suit.

    Many years ago, when I was in Uni, we had to take a compulsory economics module. About the only thing I can remember from this was the lecturer saying that, in a recession, sales of some products actually increase. He used staple food products such as bread and potatoes as an example.

    The one thing that people are short of in a recession is money. So, this will probably lead to more and more people looking for solid ways to generate additional income. I think it's fair to say that a lot of none IM'ers start with eBay or, in the UK at least, car boot sales. The former is how a lot of people begin to realise the power of the internet for making additional money.

    Furthermore, whilst people may refrain from purchasing luxury items, they will still continue to buy essential household products and will be searching for the best price possible.

    So, see the recession as an opportunity and adjust your business model accordingly.
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  • Profile picture of the author RS3RS
    Web marketing on the small scale probably has more competition than ever. People losing their jobs and looking for a way to make money online, combined with normal growth, make this a pretty booming place.

    With that said, it's filled with newbies, and there's still plenty of room to dominate if you have a Warrior mindset.
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    • Profile picture of the author brewerent
      Personally my business has done nothing but grow at a crazy rate over the past year. I'm talking about doubling my sales and profits about every 3 months like clockwork!

      I don't know about anyone else but Im not seeing a recession in the IM industry. If this is a recession then I certainly would love to see a healthy economy.

      Of course I am aware that there's a very slow economy out there and I keep my finger on the pulse of my business and the industry in general. I think you'd be crazy not to.

      Phillip
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  • Profile picture of the author Isaiah Jackson
    the internet is very profitable if not Amazon would go out of business
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  • I also don't think there is a recession in IM. If you know how to get / where to find your customers there is absolutely no big deal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Traveler66
    IM is not dying, although I do believe that the entire country is in a recession.

    Businesses with lower overhead (such as Internet Marketing) will do better in a poor economy, while brick-and-mortar businesses will suffer because of all the overhead they are burdened with (big building to pay for, wages to pay employees, etc).

    They key to making money in a recession is a positive attitude and great solutions to your clients' problems.

    Traveler66
    Author of Finding New Customers On the Backroads
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  • Profile picture of the author absolutelee
    I don't think we've even begun to see the peak in IM. I suspect due to the recession, though, a lot of folks got in who thought this was easy money. It's fun money, but not necessarily easy. Especially if you're a newbie.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aviator Joe
    IM is definitely not going anywhere in the near future
    sure traffic sources are getting saturated but hey guess what, new traffic sources are appearing.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    Originally Posted by Dano77 View Post

    I'm hearing guys getting out of IM. I'm hearing people say the industry itself is tanking.

    I being involved in this for sooo many years, earning my living from it for so long find all this hard to believe.

    Is the Internet not a profitable place to make money? ... Yes it is!
    Are people still making filthy money online? ... Yes they are...
    Is there always going to be crap promises in the market? ... Yup!

    So, what's the big deal here... Either people are loosing faith that there still *is* gold in them thar hills, OR... It's a copy thing and those who are jumping ship have lost their touch in selling.

    What say you?
    When you say "IM", what are you referring to? Internet marketing includes anything sold online, no matter what the niche is. Perhaps you are referring to the "make money online" niche when you say "IM". Whatever, it doesn't matter.

    The answer to your question is NO. Online sales across the board are RISING. As for the MMO niche, people selling crap are not doing as well as people selling real material that can actually help people. Put out a product that makes people money and customers will SWARM to you. Sell crap and your income will be crap.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Sorrell
      The MMO market is always going to grow, as for every 1 person who drops out or gives up, there will be 10 gullible newbies coming into it after deciding they're gonna look at work from home options. People will also continue to buy MMO products in the same way that people will continue to buy lottery tickets. Oh, this could be the one...I'll never have to work again.

      Online advertising is nothing more than child's play compared to offline advertising. The vast majority of the money in this world is made away from the internet. And bear in mind that the MMO market is in fact a very small niche on the whole.
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  • Profile picture of the author PatrickP
    I have tried a few searches to find out but didn't find the answer.

    What is MMO? Make Money Offer?

    Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author Aviator Joe
      Originally Posted by PatrickP View Post

      I have tried a few searches to find out but didn't find the answer.

      What is MMO? Make Money Offer?

      Thanks
      MMO usually stands for Make Money Online
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  • Profile picture of the author Nicole G
    Another to think about is how Canadians now come down to the US to shop, not vice versa like it used to be. That never happened before in my lifetime. The entire US is "on sale" to people with more valuable currencies.

    Anyway, the slow motion collapse here may be GOOD for people who sell IM products. Lots more people will now being the market to learn how to make more money.

    I think, though, as I said previously in this thread, proof elements will be even more important than ever, since this comes at a time when everyone feels defrauded.

    Due to so many lies flying about, the breakdown of the financial system, the political BS, Bernie Madoff, etc., I think skepticism is WAY up. Way, way up. So you have to be VERY genuine with your offers.

    If you come off as genuine and really deliver value right now in the money making niche, I think the world is literally yours.

    Think about how companies like Apple keep having killer quarters. While HP left the commodity PC business due to profit issues, simultaneously Apple with their expensive gizmos has become the richest company in the world. All during the very same recession/depression we're experiencing. When money is tight, people will still buy -- they're just very CAREFUL with their money. They don't want crap, that's the key.

    Right now, in ANY niche now is the time to make products of quality, not quantity. Quality sells in hard times, quantity sells when the money comes easy. Be the Mercedes, not the Chevy, of your market, and PROVE it.
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesGw
    Who is saying IM is dying? The IM niche (that is, marketing to IMers) is slowly dying IMO due to horrible products, spammy methods, and a bad reputation overall. That said, IM as a whole is thriving.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    I think, with more and more people looking for alternative forms of income, quality electronic information products or services will always sell, will always be in demand and will always make people money.

    We are returning back to the cottage industry days where one person sold directly to another without a "middle-man" in the way. This is a good thing. I see nothing but massive prosperity for anyone who wants it and I see the chances of that happening getting bigger and bigger each day.

    There will always be rubbish products (and services), has been for centuries and will be for centuries to come. Sweep it aside and focvus on the quality you will be adding to people's lives. The internet is obviously the big liberator these days. I have great faith in all our futures - seriously.
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  • Profile picture of the author UpNorthGuy
    Knowing the history of bricks and mortar retail gives a good indication as to where IM might be in the coming years.

    It used to be that most retail goods were purchased at mom and pop stores. This was the case until the 1970s with the explosion of shopping malls and franchise opportunities. Giant retail outfits became the hubs of these shopping malls.

    Sears is an example. Stores like Barnes and Noble and Gap latched on to the big anchors and sucked up the residual traffic. Shopping malls became a one stop shop for everything, except groceries. This all happened because big influence and big money convinced local governments that mega retail centers would bring in lots of sales/property tax. And it was true. Once these mega centers were built, it didn't take long until Ma and Pa's hardware store, book store, clothing store, shoe store, etc. were history. Enter the internet.

    The internet changed the game. Borders...Gone. Musicland....Gone. Kmart.....who? Anything that can be purchased at a bricks and mortar store can be purchased online. Even food. Day by day, the number of people who insist on buying products in person at a store is getting smaller.

    It is early yet in this game. The deal makers have not yet figured out how to close down the internet Mom and Pop operations, but they will eventually. They will most likely force us out with outrageous regulations by turning to the government, the same as they did in a previous time.

    Sweet deals will need to be cut with the decision makers. There's just way too much money to be made and small independent operators are making a ton of it right now. So, enjoy it while you can. Our days are numbered.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary Ning Lo
    I also make a living online and will quit IM only when i have enough money

    Cheers,

    ~Gary
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