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I'm a Scumbag Because I Recommend the Warrior Forum

by TiffanyLambert
111 replies
A note to all you newbies who aren't sure if this is a trustworthy place...

I got a comment on my blog today. The person said:

"In my experience, the Warrior forum is where experienced marketers take advantage of newbies. I am very hesitant to trust you knowing that you repeatedly mention that forum, WSO's, etc.

Why are you different from any other "guru" on that site and if you are different, why do you spend so much time there? Is that the only way you make money, selling things to Warrior beginners?"

I answered by telling her that of course there are some bad apples - there are all over the Internet. But there are some WONDERFUL people here, too. I'm here (lol), Craig Desorcy is here - and he's who held my hand for not ONE single penny and got me to over 6 figures. Not one PENNY!

There are dozens and dozens of wonderful people here. And yeah, a few pricks - but they often bend themselves over a barrel with their reputation.

I explain that my total income is probably about 5% WF. I apologized if her experiences have been to get screwed in a WSO.

She then comes back saying:

"Thanks for the replies. I must tell you honestly though, just the fact that Tiffany mentions the Warrior forum so much will continue to make me very skeptical.

I just went there now and there are 1499 members online at this moment as I write this. Total number of members = 350,000+. That is an awful lot of members and Tiffany "named a few" ethical ones. Definitely not a big enough number for me.

So many people there teach other people how to make money with WSO's. It is an extremely incestuous environment and one that I will take special care to stay away from. It seems to me that any truly ethical marketers would want to stay away as well and distance themselves from it as much as possible.

If you truly know how to make money online why would anyone need to go back there unless it is to sell to newbies?"

Now I'm annoyed.

I'm all for hand holding a newbie - I do it day in, day out. But seriously? If you don't have common sense enough to know that you don't paint an entire group of people with one broad brushstroke, then you're pretty much SOL.

Here was my reply to her - and anyone else dropping by in here, half assing it when it comes to getting to KNOW people in here and become a good judge of character:

Well I know I wouldn't have cared if the ONLY one I found was Craig Desorcy - he is THE reason I am making money online, period. So one out of a million - if they're wonderful - is perfect for me. Guess you need to get offline then because screw the Warrior Forum - look at how many blogs and websites there are. Maybe only a SMALL fraction of them are good, too.

It's called tossing the baby out with the bath water. You're closed minded so if you want to steer clear of the WF and me, I'm fine with that. There's being a bit skeptical and cautious...and then there's utter ridiculousness.

And I make over 6 figures but I STILL go there to ask questions, to HELP newbies (is there something WRONG with helping newbies?) Oh wait, I know - I should devote 100% of my time FREE because otherwise it's scummy.

So it's okay to help in a free thread but brand my fat ass with a big S for scumbag if I run a WSO.

Listen newbies and otherwise - there's good and bad everywhere. Put on your big girl panties, grow some big balls - whatever you have to do - and take responsibility for your spending habits here. Investigate the members a bit - Google is great. Ask people. WATCH their habits before you fork over the dough.

But you won't. Because you have to HURRY and buy that next freaking report before everyone else saturates the market with that tactic, right?

Might you get screwed anyway once in awhile? Yes. If that happens, be vocal about it! Take it straight to the product owner FIRST. If that doesn't work, if it's a scam, head to the mods. If THAT doesn't work, blog about it and drag them through the mud.

Word of mouth is very powerful. Use it.

Tiff

PS - If you're reading this (person who initially asked the question above), you have two choices - consider this a wake up call, start participating here and becoming part of a group, or go pout about it and say, "See? I told you she was a scumbag!" No skin off my nose either way.
#forum #i’m #recommend #scumbag #warrior
  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    Helping newbies is a noble act. Not sure about anyone else here but I was not born with computer or marketing knowledge. I think the Warrior Forum is the king forum precisely because it's the best way to get most people to help you.

    As far as WSOs (and all forums on here) are concerned I can not think of a better value education anywhere. I come from a land where some of these WSOs could be sold for well over two grand so that person has problems that are much bigger than her distorted perspective.

    She's wrong, you're right. Thanks for standing up for us!
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  • Profile picture of the author Blue Blaster
    You're a good person with a good heart. Nothing can change that, even a skeptic or two. Some of us may not say it enough...but thanks for the contributions that you and many others provide on a regular basis.

    If you hear a multiplicity of negatives, then something is truly wrong. If you hear a few positives (as you have obviously), then something is right. Those of us who recognize the efforts of successful marketers rarely convey our gratefulness - so, from one of the few who really appreciates what you do...........

    THANKS!

    Hopefully, the thankfulness will outweigh the negatives some day,

    I still consider myself to be a newbie and struggle at times, but I know it will be worth it. Take pride in your successful students and realize that you are helping to improve their lives. When you are ready for a good night's rest later on, let this be your last thought of the day and end it with a smile.
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  • Profile picture of the author JennyBird
    It takes all kinds to make a world.. lol. Do what you do, you will always find people who like or dislike you.
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    • Profile picture of the author CC
      Tiffany, as far as I'm concerned you go above and beyond what is required at times to help the newbies. Keep up the excellent work, don't let a person like that get you down.

      My feeling is, that person is of the type that is so hard to please and you will always be stuck between a rock and a hard rock with those types.

      Constance
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    • Profile picture of the author jenifer smith
      you should not always expect appreciation for noble acts, it is part of human nature to be negative sometimes even when they ought to be grateful.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    It's become a victim-oriented society. So when people can't or won't put in the effort to make something work they can get a warm fuzzy blaming someone or something other than them. And they know others like them will rally to their side. It sucks, but that attitude ain't going anywhere any time soon.
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    • Profile picture of the author AprilCT
      Wow Tiff, that person really painted with a broad brush. Likely they've gotten ripped off by someone and just want to bash anyone handy, especially someone who is doing well regardless of innocence.

      Sorry you were put through that craziness, but I think you stated your pov pretty well. Perhaps this person will understand the message and rethink their brash comments? Just don't hold your breath.

      It really doesn't seem this person will ever make it with that attitude. Everyone starts out as a noob, it takes a lot of work to make it. Perhaps work is a four letter word.:rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Ram
        I'll open a small can of worms. Of course, you aren't a "Scumbag" for recommending this site. There is some good info here and some of the WSOs are very good.

        That said, I never recommend this place to newbies. Why? Because in addition to the good info, there is a lot of crap - personal opinion, theory, conjecture, personal prejudices and value judgments, etc. - disguised as fact about marketing.

        Frankly, sometimes I wonder if many of the posters here know what business they are supposed to be in.

        Someone starting out doesn't really know how to ignore the obvious and not so obvious BS and harvest the gold. Someone may be starting out on a solid path and get distracted by the noise here. They could well end up chasing all the various shiny next new things instead of building a solid business.

        I do tell beginners this is can be a good place to pick up PLR and to outsource some tasks. But I always specifically warn them to stick to one business model and to get some experience - and some success - under their belt before venturing to the discussion forums. But that's just what I recommend. Others may well disagree and that's fine.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    LMAO - Having a bad day, eh, Tiffany? That's okay. Sounds like you earned it. (the rant, not the bad day).

    I fully understand the sentiment, too. You are just so totally on the mark. People think you're okay when it's free - but don't dare to charge for time and effort. Everyone knows that the people here that they can learn from don't have to pay bills and eat.

    I had someone email me about my skin care product once and said she was scared of getting ripped off. I sent her an email back and tried to address her concerns. She sent another one, so I sent one back that told her I couldn't really do much else for her. She either wanted the product or didn't and I wasn't going to interfere with her decision either way. So she emailed me back in BIG PRINT yelling at me for "stalking" her and telling me to stop - called me a few names, too. WTF? Whatever - I guess when you are too drooling nuts to go out by yourself in public the net is a good way to spread your lunacy.

    I'm surprised any more when I go out of my way for someone (which is less and less often) and I get a simple little "thank you" out of them.

    No telling what people are thinking when they get in door here sometimes. Not sure if I even want to understand that mindset.

    Go have a glass of Asti and just pass them off as socially deformed.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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  • Profile picture of the author robchapman
    I think this is an excellent place to come to learn internet marketing and how to earn money online.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    "I’m a Scumbag Because I Recommend the Warrior Forum"

    Maybe you are a scumbag, despite your recommendation of the WF. The WF could just be the chosen scapegoat of the day.

    If you haven't responded yet, respond now and tell her that "Only people destined for failure let strangers do their thinking for them. It is a shame and I am sorry to hear it, but it sounds like you have already chosen your destiny."
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    Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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  • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
    Some people are always looking for a handout or for others to really stick their neck out for them for nothing in return. Sounds like this person may have fallen victim to a few of those "scummy" internet marketers in the past who promised overnight riches and now feels like everyone is out to "get them".

    You know, I'm currently reading "The Millionaire Fastlane" by MJ DeMarco (great read, BTW), and he mentions something about people and overnight success that really made sense.

    An "Overnight Success" story is the event that happens because of a process!

    Whenever you hear about a guy who made $1,000,000 from selling a product or service, you DON'T hear about the story behind it. You won't see the hard work, dedication and everything else that took that guy from nothing to something. You only hear of the result of his hard work. People see that and automatically think, "Wow - this guy made a million bucks from nowhere", when in reality the guy worked his tail off to get to that point.

    In short, a lot of people chase riches and are quick to pull the "scammer" tag when something doesn't work in their favor. Many of these people have the wrong mindset and don't realize that success takes work and dedication. In other words, don't look for a $47 product to make you rich overnight - dedicate yourself to the PROCESS, and eventually you will get the results you want.

    Some people won't see that and continue to chase the "magic bullet", and those are the same people who won't ever see the success they dream of online.
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  • Profile picture of the author EricMN
    Lol, she sounds so incredibly sour (the lady Tiffany was speaking to). I find it comical when people invest an effort into articulating their ideas in a professional manner but with zero logical backing. Granted saying that a few people here have good intentions isn't representative of all of WF, but it's ridiculous to charge someone with the responisiblity of a 350,000 member report.

    I could just as easily go to the mall and find a bunch of good people and a bunch of douchebags. But wait! It's different here because sometimes there's this thing called money that's involved (whoops, go figure).

    Bottom line is this is a great place to network and learn. I know some aspects of IM better than others. Regardless, I can always come here for some more information or to make new connections.

    Moral of the story: It's not the scumbag's fault you spent your money, be smart enough to tell the difference and you don't have to worry about where you tread.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

    If you truly know how to make money online why would anyone need to go back there unless it is to sell to newbies?
    Let me translate that, for all those who think this might be a sensible argument.

    "Why would anyone who really knows something tell anyone who doesn't know it, except for money?"

    In other words, stop teaching people stuff! What are you, stupid? Don't ever do anything unless you get paid!

    Seriously, Tiff, you are never going to be successful online until you figure that out.
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    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author Nanaswhimsy
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Let me translate that, for all those who think this might be a sensible argument.

      "Why would anyone who really knows something tell anyone who doesn't know it, except for money?"

      In other words, stop teaching people stuff! What are you, stupid? Don't ever do anything unless you get paid!

      Seriously, Tiff, you are never going to be successful online until you figure that out.
      Really? Sometimes people "mentor" (teach people stuff without getting paid) and get a lot of out it.
      1) seed the universe with good will.
      2) build a reputation as a knowledgeable person in that field.
      3) Just to give back or pay it forward for help they received in the past.
      4) Just to get that "good" feeling you get for helping another human being.

      I guess it comes back to actually how you define success.

      I think Tiffany's responses were very diplomatic and professional given what type of person she was dealing with!

      Suzanne
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  • Profile picture of the author Greenjackdavey
    The big lesson here is that trust is hard won, and oh so easy to loose. Once people get doubts about you, you are fighting a loosing battle. It hard to loose out over a silly mistake, but it is even harder to loose out when you have done nothing wrong to deserve it. I feel for you Tiffany, it obviously did upset you no, matter how brave a face you are putting on.

    I had a few like that. I used to exchange heated emails but that never got me anywhere. Now, I usually just respond by asking what I can do to make things right? You can get a greater insight into where there head really is by their reply. If I can do it, I try my best, if I cannot, well I tried my best to help and it is their problem.

    Always remember, The customer is always right, unless they are just darned wrong!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarah Harris
    I have been a WF member for a long time. I visit in spurts. However when I am low on creative juices...or I need the answer to anything I know I can find it in the WF. I spent thousands of dollars on crap products and much of the same information I paid for is being given away every day here on WF for free.
    I think it is a shallow mind that only sees it that way. I know without the WF I would be less of a marketer, and still be skimming around the edges of the marketing pond.
    There comes a time to quit trying to dip your toe in, and dive or go home. Don't blame others success on your lack of.......whatever.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

    "In my experience, the Warrior forum is where experienced marketers take advantage of newbies. I am very hesitant to trust you knowing that you repeatedly mention that forum, WSO's, etc..

    Tiff, that is the funniest thing I heard. When i came here many years ago. The warrior special offer was free to post your stuff.

    No warrior ever took advantage of me, cause every WSO I bought was solid, I was just a lazy ass and never did anything with it.

    So this newbie is just probably complaining cause they buy up every WSO under the sun and never do anything with it. That will get you now where fast.

    Classic example of the newbie mentality....when all the good WSO's tell you that their ebook is worthless if you do nothing with the information contained, which is so true.

    The two most important words you will see here on the forum is TAKE ACTION!

    Those two words are powerful together, and when I start stop looking at those two words and started to act, and put in place actions....I saw amazing results....soon after I was able to quit my job ...yada yada....and the rest is history.
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  • Profile picture of the author wnatc1
    Whats wrong with helping someone, especially newbies? I think what is wrong is if someone leads them down the wrong path deliberately. That is the the definition of a scumbag. You as welll as most warriors are not scumbags.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
    Tiff...

    If you're the "benchmark" for scum bags, then we're all in very good company

    Paul
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    It's Simple... I don't "sell" IM anymore, but still do lots of YouTube Videos
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  • Profile picture of the author AmandaT
    There are going to be rude people and bad products everywhere... at least on WF you'll usually get them for less and you have a good chance of getting refunds on bad products.
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  • Profile picture of the author KingOfContentMarketing
    In the time that person spent writing ill-informed comments, they could have finished an article or some other productive use of time. People waste so much time and then blame others.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brendon Zahrndt
    "Put on your big girl panties, grow some big balls – whatever you have to do – and take responsibility for your spending habits here. Investigate the members a bit – Google is great. Ask people. WATCH their habits before you fork over the dough.

    But you won’t. Because you have to HURRY and buy that next freaking report before everyone else saturates the market with that tactic, right?"

    Goodness Tiffany, if everyone took your very, very good advice Allen might have to stop buying organic.

    Tell her to go fly a kite.
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    I have little tolerance for blatant stupidity which probably explains why I'm constantly in hot water at all three forums I frequent including the one I moderate. One of the nice things about being an "elder statesman", (read three days older than dirt), is not having to give a flyin' rat's butt what anybody says about me. I have unsubscribed from a bunch of lists lately, but not yours Tiff.

    Thomas
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    When you hear someone telling you what YOU can't do, they are usually talking about what THEY can't do.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
      Originally Posted by Thomas Wilkinson View Post

      I have little tolerance for blatant stupidity which probably explains why I'm constantly in hot water at all three forums I frequent including the one I moderate. One of the nice things about being an "elder statesman", (read three days older than dirt), is not having to give a flyin' rat's butt what anybody says about me. I have unsubscribed from a bunch of lists lately, but not yours Tiff.

      Thomas
      Thomas,

      I luv it! Can I borrow the phrase "flyin' rat's butt" and pay you royalties?

      RoD
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      "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
      - Jim Rohn
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    I think my conversation with that particular Warrior Hater would of been a little more abbreviated.

    Debating with fools is pure folly. Best to kick them in the rear when they present themselves and get on with your day as quickly as possible.

    PM me the link and I'll perform the service this time free of charge.
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
      Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

      I think my conversation with that particular Warrior Hater would of been a little more abbreviated.

      Debating with fools is pure folly. Best to kick them in the rear when they present themselves and get on with your day as quickly as possible.

      PM me the link and I'll perform the service this time free of charge.
      If I ever need entertainment, I just read through Matt's WSOs and look for examples of "Debating with fools...". He ought to offer THAT service as a WSO...
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    There's always someone around willing to prove true the old adage: You can't save people from themselves. She'll have to find her own way out of her abyss.
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    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author mllnsgrl
    Thanks for posting, Tiffany I really got a chuckle out of this..."It is an extremely incestuous environment/Definitely not a big enough number for me./Put on your big girl panties, grow some big balls – whatever you have to do – and take responsibility for your spending habits here" LOL

    Some people are just so close minded, judgemental, and pathetic! How can anyone actually make something of themselves with that attitude. It's beyond me.

    Liz
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    Feel free Rod, no royalties needed. Its one of my favorite expressions. Spread it around.

    Thomas
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    When you hear someone telling you what YOU can't do, they are usually talking about what THEY can't do.
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  • Profile picture of the author suigeneris
    Some people's KIDS! I tell ya' you just cant win'em all...
    In this life some people are just going to be MAD no matter what and you just have to take it with a grain of salt...

    They obviously dont understand VALUE... you have a valuable skill/knowledge/know how and should be rewarded appropriately... thanks you for the post Tiffany Keep Kicking Butt!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author retirewithsandie
      WOW! Like with anything you have to weed through the crap but there are great gems here & wonderful tidbits of information.

      How many does she need to validate anything? My goodness! 100, 1,000, 10,000, 100,000? Would that make her happy? Even if one were here 24/7 you'd only interact with a handful of folks. I'm sure a good 99% of the members are ethical and honest but because folks lurk, pop in time to time, sign up & never come back, etc. And not everyone here is selling information, they are getting so you wouldn't know their ethics or lack thereof to begin with. Not everyone uses their name so user Joe Blow could be out there as John Doe scamming people & you wouldn't know that.
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  • Profile picture of the author RozFruchtman
    Tiff, I'm not here much (should be more), but...
    it was YOU who recommended the Warrior Forum to me. Send her my way and I'll tell her a thing or two about you "my friend!"

    I had a guy write me one day about my eCards. He RAVED about my eCards and said they were nicer than any he had seen. My site if niche at this time!

    BUT... He said: "HE NEVER paid for eCards!"

    I wrote back nicely and explained how this was a business and that I put in 12-18 hours a day (when I started, I did not say when I started).

    He wrote back and said: "Please let me know when you put them up for free!"

    I wrote back and said: "I'd rather pull the entire site down before I did that! And I DO mean that!

    Now I DO offer some free eCards as a way to give back, for special occasions, celebrations and acknowledgments AND mostly as a way to allow people to try out the site.

    The problem is... Many give everything away and that makes is difficult for anyone trying to earn a living. These people who expect free would NEVER think of going to work and coming home without a paycheck at the end of the week.

    It took me a long time to be able to write this smiling (and I AM smiling).

    There are a bunch of nuts out there!

    YOU GO TIFF!!!

    BTW, I have to write you to inquire how to put my picture in my profile!

    Roz Fruchtman
    Say It With eCards
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  • Profile picture of the author Buddha94
    Funny thread but I got a slight understanding of how the person who is ranting feels.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ruth P
    I do understand where she's coming from, mainly because I went through such a sceptical phase at one point too, though I have since changed my views.

    Despite the fact you're totally right there are good and bad people everywhere, sometimes you just start to notice the bad. I went through a phase of doubting even the good ones, because I was so fed up of seeing the bad.

    But I had to tell myself to snap out of it. When I thought about it logically, I realized it's the same in any business, whether online or offline. The Warrior Forum is so huge that we see all sides - scammy gurus, gurus who actually deserve the title through years of experience (but have been tarnished by the others), people starting out who have something valuable to share, newbies who sell bad reports because they think that's the right way to make cash, and people who just come here to help people out and form relationships as a result.

    When you have been here and you have formed relationships, or learnt something that helped your business, you start to feel it is worth it despite the fact that it's a breeding ground for bad products too. But you have to be strict with yourself by staying out of the way of what's not right for you - like you said, follow different marketers, google them, and talk to others before buying.

    I'm going on a bit here, but I guess at the end of the day, if you've had a positive experience with the Warrior Forum and you recommend it, that's completely the right thing to do. Perhaps she tried and got overwhelmed by what I used to feel, and didn't manage to snap herself out of it like I did. (and, in addition, you're constantly talking about the kind of thing to avoid on your blog too - which helps make it clear who to listen to and who to avoid on the WF)
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  • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
    I don't think you should have posted the second answer. Can you delete it? It makes it sound like you are upset by her and needing to have the last word.

    Without that, she's just making her self sound like a total ****** and your readers will spot that straight away.

    Leaving it unanswered gives the rest of your readers a chance to answer her. That way you'll see what the rest of your readership really thinks - and they'll probably enjoy the chance to tell her that she's wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tracey_Meagher
    Okay, could the warrior who scarred that lady please stand up .... or at least pay for her therapy
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  • Profile picture of the author xxxJamesxxx
    We are all pure evil over at the Warrior Forum.

    Heck, I'm just drowning a kitten right now as I type this!

    James Scholes
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    • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
      Originally Posted by xxxJamesxxx View Post

      We are all pure evil over at the Warrior Forum.

      Heck, I'm just drowning a kitten right now as I type this!

      James Scholes
      You too???


      The Warrior Forum is a community - and in any community you get a few jackasses, but overall I like the people here

      Sadly, many of the newbies really set themselves up to be scammed by only looking for that "instant money - no work!" secret.

      The newbies that approach IM with the understanding that some work is involved don't seem to have the same problems :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Kierkegaard
    Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

    A note to all you newbies who aren't sure if this is a trustworthy place...

    I got a comment on my blog today. The person said:

    "In my experience, the Warrior forum is where experienced marketers take advantage of newbies. I am very hesitant to trust you knowing that you repeatedly mention that forum, WSO's, etc.

    Why are you different from any other "guru" on that site and if you are different, why do you spend so much time there? Is that the only way you make money, selling things to Warrior beginners?"
    Two of your products Work at Home Truths and Building an Ebook Empire are advertised on a notorious Warrior-Hating blog. What your commenter says sounds very much like the rants they have about this forum on that blog. It could be that this individual has found your site after visiting this anti-WSO blog.

    Actually the blog owner is quite complimentary referring to you as " Tiffany Dow, a marketer I admire and respect".
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesJeffery
    Over the years I'm probably considered one of the Jackasses on here, but there is no doubt that this place is a great contributor of valuable knowledge and insight, and has had a positive impact on Internet Marketing.

    There is always someone that will find your knowledge valuable whether your a guru, or not, because it's about sharing experiences and learning experiences.

    Anyone willing to go to any lengths to mock the Warrior Forums has never been an active member long enough to feel the community's love and passion.

    I say don't waste your time with them. They are not worth it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
      Tiffany,

      If you look up a fruit tree, you may see a lot of healthy fruits and some bad. That's normal.

      If you are a good gardener then you remove the bad ones. That's natural as well.

      Why do you do so?

      Because you know, that your tree and the healthy fruits will be grateful for your care.

      What to expect from the bad fruit if you care about them, too?

      They will take your energy low. You cannot deal with others as they deserve.

      What will be the end result?

      The healthy fruits will be also bad, and your tree falls ill and dies.

      Bottom line: Be a good gardener.

      Cheers,

      Sandor
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        I have gained a lot of perspective since not working my business on a regular
        basis anymore. Sitting back and taking a good hard look at the world has made
        me realize a lot of things. One of them is this.

        No matter how good something is or is believed to be (sometimes the majority
        can be wrong) there are going to be those who will condemn it and hate you
        for supporting it. That is a fact of life that you can never escape.

        When I was younger and deeply involved in my business, I used to take those
        criticisms very personally and would lash back violently. My tongue could be
        quite sharp.

        Today...I simply ignore it. I know there are going to be people out there who
        think I'm worse than a scumbag (been called just about everything under the
        sun by people at this very forum) and who I will never convince otherwise.

        So what?

        When we were kids we used to have this silly saying.

        "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me."

        It was so silly, but it's also so true. Nothing anyone says to me can hurt me,
        especially if that person means nothing to me.

        Go through life with that philosophy (one that sadly took me 53 years to
        adopt) and nothing anyone says will bother you.

        You can't imagine how at peace I am with my life now, to the point that if
        somebody came to this thread and told me I was full of sh*t...I wouldn't
        even bother responding to it, especially since that person probably means
        nothing me.

        Sure, if my wife says something to me, I will probably listen to it and take it
        to heart as this is a woman who loves me.

        But most other people...let them say what they want...especially if they're
        just somebody on my list with an ax to grind who I don't know from Adam.

        I don't know if what I've shared helps you any or not but it's from the heart.

        Life is too short to let these petty, mean, jealous, lifeless, soulless people
        get to you.

        And for the record...I think you're the tops.

        As Spock would say, "Live long and prosper."
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Hey Tiff,

    Sorry you came across such a warped person.

    It sounds like if you gave them a diamond they'd complain that it wasn't big enough or not cut the way they prefer.

    You can't help some people.

    At least they put you up there in the 'Guru' category, although it sounds like they've created a new meaning for it that's not to do with sharing and teaching.

    I imagine there's a whole hord of people who've come here, abused the forum and been banned and are running around the internet bitching that we're censored and Allen has an army of nasty mods who deleting anything not posted by their friends.

    They probably think Ebay is a bad place to sell because of all those visitors - I mean, how can you tell who you're selling to with so many people going there.

    I've never heard a forum having lots of active members as meaning something bad before, but I guess the old saying that you are what you see stands and if they're bitter and twisted and looking for scammers then that's what they'll see - wherever they go.

    It's their loss as they're missing out on all the amazing people here.

    Still, no point us feeling bad about it - we're still here .

    Andy
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    nothing to see here.

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    • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
      Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

      I don't think you should have posted the second answer. Can you delete it? It makes it sound like you are upset by her and needing to have the last word.
      No way! Anyone who knows me knows I'll have my say. It's not about last words. I was just polite the first time thinking she was possibly worried. Her second answer showed me she's an idiot and I feel compelled to let her know this. A friendly smack "snap out of it" she can take or leave.

      She didn't upset me as in hurt my feelings in any way, FYI - this is brand new person who found my blog. I just thought I'd comment publicly since I know many newbies worry about this.

      Originally Posted by Kierkegaard View Post

      Two of your products Work at Home Truths and Building an Ebook Empire are advertised on a notorious Warrior-Hating blog. What your commenter says sounds very much like the rants they have about this forum on that blog. It could be that this individual has found your site after visiting this anti-WSO blog.

      Actually the blog owner is quite complimentary referring to you as " Tiffany Dow, a marketer I admire and respect".
      Well if that's how they found me then they're even stupider than I thought. If a Warrior Forum blog praises and recommends ME, even KNOWING how I recommend Warrior Forum and praise IT, then obviously I'm someone to be trusted. LOL!
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  • Profile picture of the author njouze
    The world will always have good and bad people. I recommend the above mentioned should take time to analyze the people in this forum and select who to work with before badmouthing everyone else.
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  • Profile picture of the author Renavon
    Some people have one bad fall and think the whole hill is bad. I dont think the person is going to budge, and really theres not to much point trying to change her opinion ^^
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    • Profile picture of the author Radiuz
      A lot of people have been burnt by internet marketers(myself included), so I understand where she's coming from.Though I would never insult your integrity - you seem like a respectable person.
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  • Profile picture of the author AmandaT
    Within days of joining WF I found a total of three marketers that I have followed ever since due to their vast knowledge and desire to help. Tiff is one of them! I proudly promote and recommend her products and I mention her to every newbie asking about marketers to follow.

    It is too bad that they are choosing to be so closed minded. They are missing out on getting to follow many marketers that are, like Tiff, extremely knowledgeable and helpful. I have built 80% of my business using information I have gotten for free from this forum. (The other 20% from buying WSOs, mainly Tiff and Peggy's PLR business books.)
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    • Profile picture of the author Ruth P
      Originally Posted by AmandaT View Post

      Within days of joining WF I found a total of three marketers that I have followed ever since due to their vast knowledge and desire to help. Tiff is one of them! I proudly promote and recommend her products and I mention her to every newbie asking about marketers to follow.
      I didn't even think about this before, but I found Tiff through this forum too. Perhaps that was when it showed me I was wrong to be so cynical about everyone!

      I have met some truly lovely people through the forum, those are relationships that I will always cherish.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ansar Pasha
    Banned
    The internet is filled with weirdo's, lazy people and straight up dip****s.

    You can't help someone who doesn't want to help themself... and trying won't get you anywhere. Hope you have a great day

    Ansar
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  • Profile picture of the author davejug1
    Unfortunately this has more to do with the reputation of internet marketingas a whole rather than aspecific group of members here. The sad fact is that there are problems in the industry, but the good news is that the good eggs shine out like a beacon.
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  • Profile picture of the author DanDasilva15YearOldIM
    I'm sick and tired of people like her. I left a post giving her a piece of my mind. Look you will ALWAYS get those annoying people who hate you. The only reason they hate is because you have achieved the level of success they want!
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  • Profile picture of the author rbates
    Well Tiffany, that blog comment has certainly sparked a bit of
    controversy. I don't understand why anyone would criticize
    an entire population (i.e. Warrior Forum, Internet Marketers, Human Race),
    or YOU just for being a part of something.

    It is true that there are always the unscrupulous, ready-to-prey upon the
    novice and unsuspecting, but as you said - SPEAK UP! Especially in this forum,
    the word will get around quickly if someone is not living up to their word.

    Another reason that your commenter is "Less than Brilliant" (much less apparently)
    is that this is a marketing forum. Does it NOT stand to reason that a marketing
    forum just MIGHT provide an opportunity for marketers to actually MARKET? DUH!

    It is too bad that she is trying to give the entire forum a bad rep., but I do think that
    the Warrior Forum, just might, survive this vacuous verbiage.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    Always knew you were a scumbag at heart Tiff

    I've reached the point where I've stopped caring about what people think of me. Life is far too short to allow someone to get under your skin with their closed off, small-minded world view.

    What matters isn't what some idiot with crusade thinks of you, but rather what you think of yourself and how those you care about think of you.

    The Warrior Forum is the only IM forum I regularly participate in. I stopped "Earning" from it a long time ago, so why do I even bother coming back?

    I like the atmosphere, most of the regular members and I don't mind spending my time helping others with their issues. I rarely start threads, instead choosing to go with the flow and answering questions or giving advice where I'm able to.

    It's a terrific, centralized point, where sooner or later just about everything is going to be discussed and some of the more heated discussions are better than HBO

    I also think that, compared to a lot of other similar forums, it's probably the "Safest" one in terms of not getting ripped off. I don't see the level of active concern or effort on other forums that I see here with the Mods and Allen.

    Shrug it off girl...you're far better than the idiot bitching about you.
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  • Profile picture of the author linjogi
    I understand the concern she has but that is what due diligence is for.

    There are many in this forum who are out to make a buck no matter what and then there are very generous people who want a sustainable business and go out of their way for their customers.

    I can see, as a newbie on this forum, that one could become very overwhelmed with all the choices offered here. To bad she is people everyone in the "make a buck" group and missing out on "true generosity".
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    • Profile picture of the author georgedinmore
      Tiffany,

      I do not know you what-so-ever.

      However, in my experience, people just find someone to blame because they have tried many, many, many ways to MMO.

      Admittedly, i have done the same.

      However, i just said one day, stuff them, i'll do it on my own.

      Now, i have a blog of three years, starting with email marketing, and i am a firm believer of Making Money Online.

      I had no help or guidance, only free ebooks.

      Its the persons frame of mind that makes them fail, and the push of dodgy products on "How to make $1,000,000 in a week".

      I have since apologised to them marketers that i cursed and seriously layed into. And i am making it on my own.

      I have looked into your past posts, and they can help me even more. Learning and doing is the only way forward. You WILL fail, but its the drive to succeed that will prosper in the end.

      Cheers!
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      • Profile picture of the author RayWhittaker
        Originally Posted by georgedinmore View Post

        Tiffany,

        I do not know you what-so-ever.

        However, in my experience, people just find someone to blame because they have tried many, many, many ways to MMO.

        Admittedly, i have done the same.

        However, i just said one day, stuff them, i'll do it on my own.

        Now, i have a blog of three years, starting with email marketing, and i am a firm believer of Making Money Online.
        georgedinmore has hit the crux of the matter right there! The woman who slated everyone in the Warrior forum has clearly got the wrong mindset to succeed. If she sees the forum (and presumably the Internet at large) as a place full of scammers trying to take her money, then that's all she'll ever see. She just won't be able to trust anyone.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
          Originally Posted by RayWhittaker View Post

          ...If she sees the forum (and presumably the Internet at large) as a place full of scammers trying to take her money, then that's all she'll ever see...
          That's called Confirmation bias: (When you look for proof of something and then declare it to be true). We used to get a lot of those types in the stock market niche. Funny thing is, I wonder what she's doing at your blog in the first place? Looking for something that was right in front of her ironically I bet.
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      • Profile picture of the author Nanaswhimsy
        Originally Posted by georgedinmore View Post


        Its the persons frame of mind that makes them fail, and the push of dodgy products on "How to make $1,000,000 in a week".

        Cheers!
        Hmmm, you left out lack of action.

        To all the newbies out there,
        For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, be it good or bad.
        If you take positive actions, then you get positive results.
        If you take negative actions, then you get negative results.

        If you take no action, you get no results.

        It's all well and good to buy that WSO that sounds like the answer you are seeking but if you take no action on the information you find, then you will get no results. Accept responsibility for lack of action rather than "blaming" the "Warriors" offering solutions!

        Suzanne
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  • Profile picture of the author WriterWahm
    Hi Tiff,

    Thanks for posting because it gave me a pause. I find it sad that a person would blame another for her inability to be a reasonable judge character. In this life we all have to choose what we decide to learn. There are so many teachers out there and they all teach conflicting stuff, it is left for each of us to sift the gems from the dross. Even the so-called scammers have something to teach: even if it's what not to do in business.
    There is a saying that goes 'in the garden of the fool, there is a valuable flower' or something like that anyway.

    I have been visiting WF for months and reading. But I only just joined. I have learned so much on what to apply to my business. Probably because I already have a business model, it is easier for me to focus on what concerns me and ignore what doesn't.

    I have not purchased a single WSO, not because I don't want to, but at this time I really couldn't afford to. When I buy help books and such on the internet, I make sure it's money I can afford to lose. If I gain some useful advice then good. If not, I'll chalk it down to one more experience.

    I plan to buy many wonderful WSOs when I'm able to. If that commenter on your blog lost money through WSOs then that's her fault. Nobody forced her to click on BUY or ORDER NOW. Taking it out on you was juvenile and in extreme poor form.

    I have heard a lot about you Tiff and after reading your original post, I am going to subscribe to whatever list you have and follow you closely. I could do with a few 'scumbags' like you in my life right now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Luther Landro
    Haters are going to hate; and you will always meet people who *think* they have the answer - wholly ignoring your research, stats, and proof; in exchange for a "gut feeling" that you're selling snake oil.

    Ignore them, and help the people who can be helped.
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  • Profile picture of the author emdubl
    This thread is great. Very well said. I havent been around the forum for too long, but I've gotten a lot of good FREE advice.
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    • Profile picture of the author fluffythewondercat
      I have heard a lot about you Tiff and after reading your original post, I am going to subscribe to whatever list you have and follow you closely. I could do with a few 'scumbags' like you in my life right now.

      And thus, a goal is achieved.

      Nicely done, Tiff. Most of them don't even realize they've been played.

      fLufF
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

        And thus, a goal is achieved.

        Nicely done, Tiff. Most of them don't even realize they've been played.
        Geez, I wonder if you realize how that comment makes you look like you're accusing Tiff of posting this for the sake of exposure.

        I highly doubt she posted this in order to "play" people.

        I also wonder if you realize how petty that comment makes you look.

        ~Bill
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        • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

          Geez, I wonder if you realize how that comment makes you look like you're accusing Tiff of posting this for the sake of exposure.

          I highly doubt she posted this in order to "play" people.

          I also wonder if you realize how petty that comment makes you look.

          ~Bill
          Seems to be a pattern there...
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        • Profile picture of the author fluffythewondercat
          Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

          Geez, I wonder if you realize how that comment makes you look like you're accusing Tiff of posting this for the sake of exposure.

          I highly doubt she posted this in order to "play" people.

          I also wonder if you realize how petty that comment makes you look.

          ~Bill
          Thanks, Bill! I needed someone to misunderstand me and you're right on schedule.

          My post was in admiration for the technique. Sincerity is always a long con and I don't have the appetite for it but some people can make it work and by golly that Tiff is a gem.

          Someone said the other day something to the effect of "Most of the people in the WF don't even seem to understand what business they're in."

          If thread readers don't understand that they are getting an excellent free education in intermediate to advanced internet marketing here, that's a pity because they're really missing out.

          How many of you can set emotion aside and go back to the beginning of this thread to evaluate it coolly and rationally?

          Are internet marketers blind when their own buttons are pushed?

          fLufF
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          • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
            Banned
            Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

            Thanks, Bill! I needed someone to misunderstand me and you're right on schedule.
            No, I don't think so...

            My post was in admiration for the technique.
            No, the only technique is your subtle efforts at bashing other members.

            Sincerity is always a long con and I don't have the appetite for it but some people can make it work and by golly that Tiff is a gem.
            You're not nearly as smart as you try to make yourself out to be. Personally, I suspect you're on your way to getting banned, but hey, that's just me.

            And at the risk of getting banned myself, all I see is a sad, lonely person who makes herself feel better by trying (and failing miserably) to hurt those she resents for being more successful/happier than she is.

            As I mentioned in another thread, at the end of the day, you might feel better, but really, anything you say or do here has no impact on any of us. You've just become one more meaningless troll on my list...
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Fluffy, or whoever you are, do yourself a favor and drop it before you end
              up alienating this whole forum or worse.

              Take the above advice for what it's worth to you.

              And YES...I am speaking from experience.

              Have a nice day all.
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              • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
                As usual the Wagenhammer pulls no punches! Love your style bro!

                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                Fluffy, or whoever you are, do yourself a favor and drop it before you end
                up alienating this whole forum or worse.

                Take the above advice for what it's worth to you.

                And YES...I am speaking from experience.

                Have a nice day all.
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          • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
            Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

            Thanks, Bill! I needed someone to misunderstand me and you're right on schedule.

            --
            Looks like you're about to receive your quota in that department. You have to realize coming in like you did was a misplay on your part. There are some pretty successful Warriors giving you good advice here on the thread. It's up to you to take it or not. Good luck in all you do though.
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      • Profile picture of the author WriterWahm
        Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

        I have heard a lot about you Tiff and after reading your original post, I am going to subscribe to whatever list you have and follow you closely. I could do with a few 'scumbags' like you in my life right now.

        And thus, a goal is achieved.

        Nicely done, Tiff. Most of them don't even realize they've been played.

        fLufF
        --
        Ah well, guess you also need a few 'scumbags' in your life...teach you how it's done.
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  • Profile picture of the author ~kev~
    Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

    A note to all you newbies who aren’t sure if this is a trustworthy place…
    <snip>
    This might go against the grain, but I see a lot of poor, and sometimes bad advice posted in warrior forum. And its not in just 1 general location, its poor marketing advice all across the board.

    It seems to me that a lot of people are focused on making as many squeeze pages as possible, and selling as many junk pdf files as possible. If their pdf file was worth buying, they would not be asking for advice, they would be giving advice.

    Whatever happened to creating an informative site, and posting quality content. Instead of doing that, people are being told to post their articles all over the net on article sites.

    There is a lot of good information posted here, but its like a diamond in the rough. People have to dig through all of the article marketing and squeeze page threads to get to the good stuff.
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    • Profile picture of the author WriterWahm
      Originally Posted by ~kev~ View Post

      There is a lot of good information posted here, but its like a diamond in the rough. People have to dig through all of the article marketing and squeeze page threads to get to the good stuff.
      Very true Kev. But that is where the hard in hard work comes in. Regardless of the niche or business type (offline or online) you need to dig to find what you need. It's called research. No one really hands you 'the secret to success' on a platter. We all have to go looking.
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      Originally Posted by ~kev~ View Post

      This might go against the grain, but I see a lot of poor, and sometimes bad advice posted in warrior forum. And its not in just 1 general location, its poor marketing advice all across the board.

      It seems to me that a lot of people are focused on making as many squeeze pages as possible, and selling as many junk pdf files as possible. If their pdf file was worth buying, they would not be asking for advice, they would be giving advice.

      Whatever happened to creating an informative site, and posting quality content. Instead of doing that, people are being told to post their articles all over the net on article sites.

      There is a lot of good information posted here, but its like a diamond in the rough. People have to dig through all of the article marketing and squeeze page threads to get to the good stuff.
      You're right, but there's a lot of really bad information all over the web on every topic under the sun. That's not the WF's fault and is another reason why Tiff's post has even greater merit.

      A lot of us spend time here "Correcting" misinformation that others post. or at the very least questioning it on some level.

      The point is that no matter where you go, you need to be able to filter through the junk and come away with the nuggets.
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  • Profile picture of the author RobertMcFarlane
    I've worked in direct sales before and when you're working in anything that involves money, there will be people who absolutely despise you and don't trust you however nice or sincere of a person you are. Actually, the ones who are most successful in direct sales tend to be the type of people who willingly don't care for others. True scum bags. So don't feel so bad.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    Oh if only the evil people would be gathered all in one place and we could avoid them all by not going there.
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    Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. -Winston Churchill

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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    Tiff,

    You are way more tolerant than I would have been. On my own site I would have banned that persons IP address and deleted the comments. The real intent is to try and discredit you to all the other people who visit your blog. Who's really the one being a scumbag in this situation?
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    • Profile picture of the author Nanaswhimsy
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      Tiff,

      You are way more tolerant than I would have been. On my own site I would have banned that persons IP address and deleted the comments. The real intent is to try and discredit you to all the other people who visit your blog. Who's really the one being a scumbag in this situation?
      I would think if the person was really trying to discredit her and she found her posts removed, it would only incite her to go to another website and push the defamation. At least by responding and keeping communication open, her "normal" readers would see how professional AND communicative she was and have more respect for her.

      Only IP's I have every banned from my sites have been hackers.
      Suzanne
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        Sorry, I disagree based on the perspective that continuing a conversation will only encourage more of it. I wouldn't engage in a social conversation with some one who so plainly disagrees with me and is trying to discredit me on my OWN site.

        If Tiff's visitors don't already see her as professional and communicative then that is another matter entirely.

        Let them go to other sites and defame!

        Boohoo I expressed my opinion on such and such site and they banned me! Can you believe that! What a travesty of justice!

        I don't know about you but I'd be trying to find out who this person they are slamming is and what they are about!

        Its awesome LINK Bait and people will make a huge effort to go and check Tiff out. Once they get arrive they'll see Tiff is the real deal and quickly figure out that the other person was just grinding an axe.

        Originally Posted by Nanaswhimsy View Post

        I would think if the person was really trying to discredit her and she found her posts removed, it would only incite her to go to another website and push the defamation. At least by responding and keeping communication open, her "normal" readers would see how professional AND communicative she was and have more respect for her.

        Only IP's I have every banned from my sites have been hackers.
        Suzanne
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        • Profile picture of the author Nanaswhimsy
          Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post


          Let them go to other sites and defame!

          Boohoo I expressed my opinion on such and such site and they banned me! Can you believe that! What a travesty of justice!

          I don't know about you but I'd be trying to find out who this person they are slamming is and what they are about!

          Its awesome LINK Bait and people will make a huge effort to go and check Tiff out. Once they get arrive they'll see Tiff is the real deal and quickly figure out that the other person was just grinding an axe.
          LOL! Interesting thought. Actually never thought of it that way but your right, I am the kind of person who would be checking them out. Hmmm, a WSO in the making? "Link bait how to use it to your advantage!"

          I had actually seen where some click bank affiliates are using the word "scam" in their blogs or domain names to promote click bank offers, I guess because as a general population, we are naturally cynically to offers made out there and go to see if it's a scam before investing.

          Suzanne
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      • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        Tiff,

        You are way more tolerant than I would have been. On my own site I would have banned that persons IP address and deleted the comments. The real intent is to try and discredit you to all the other people who visit your blog. Who's really the one being a scumbag in this situation?
        Ah no I LOVE showcasing people like that. It's a lesson for others.

        Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

        Geez, I wonder if you realize how that comment makes you look like you're accusing Tiff of posting this for the sake of exposure.

        I highly doubt she posted this in order to "play" people.

        I also wonder if you realize how petty that comment makes you look.

        ~Bill
        I saw that comment Bill and I wondered if she was being a smart ass or not. I hoped she was kidding. If not, ROTFLMAO then yeah, this scumbag just got a subscriber - bite me. (that's sarcasm for those who don't recognize it)

        Originally Posted by Nanaswhimsy View Post

        Really? Sometimes people "mentor" (teach people stuff without getting paid) and get a lot of out it.
        1) seed the universe with good will.
        2) build a reputation as a knowledgeable person in that field.
        3) Just to give back or pay it forward for help they received in the past.
        4) Just to get that "good" feeling you get for helping another human being.

        I guess it comes back to actually how you define success.

        I think Tiffany's responses were very diplomatic and professional given what type of person she was dealing with!

        Suzanne
        I know CD and he was being a lovable smart ass He wasn't being serious. lol
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  • Profile picture of the author ReachOneMedia
    Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

    A note to all you newbies who aren't sure if this is a trustworthy place...

    I got a comment on my blog today. The person said:

    "In my experience, the Warrior forum is where experienced marketers take advantage of newbies. I am very hesitant to trust you knowing that you repeatedly mention that forum, WSO's, etc.

    Why are you different from any other "guru" on that site and if you are different, why do you spend so much time there? Is that the only way you make money, selling things to Warrior beginners?"

    I answered by telling her that of course there are some bad apples - there are all over the Internet. But there are some WONDERFUL people here, too. I'm here (lol), Craig Desorcy is here - and he's who held my hand for not ONE single penny and got me to over 6 figures. Not one PENNY!

    There are dozens and dozens of wonderful people here. And yeah, a few pricks - but they often bend themselves over a barrel with their reputation.

    I explain that my total income is probably about 5% WF. I apologized if her experiences have been to get screwed in a WSO.

    She then comes back saying:

    "Thanks for the replies. I must tell you honestly though, just the fact that Tiffany mentions the Warrior forum so much will continue to make me very skeptical.

    I just went there now and there are 1499 members online at this moment as I write this. Total number of members = 350,000+. That is an awful lot of members and Tiffany "named a few" ethical ones. Definitely not a big enough number for me.

    So many people there teach other people how to make money with WSO's. It is an extremely incestuous environment and one that I will take special care to stay away from. It seems to me that any truly ethical marketers would want to stay away as well and distance themselves from it as much as possible.

    If you truly know how to make money online why would anyone need to go back there unless it is to sell to newbies?"

    Now I'm annoyed.

    I'm all for hand holding a newbie - I do it day in, day out. But seriously? If you don't have common sense enough to know that you don't paint an entire group of people with one broad brushstroke, then you're pretty much SOL.

    Here was my reply to her - and anyone else dropping by in here, half assing it when it comes to getting to KNOW people in here and become a good judge of character:

    Well I know I wouldn't have cared if the ONLY one I found was Craig Desorcy - he is THE reason I am making money online, period. So one out of a million - if they're wonderful - is perfect for me. Guess you need to get offline then because screw the Warrior Forum - look at how many blogs and websites there are. Maybe only a SMALL fraction of them are good, too.

    It's called tossing the baby out with the bath water. You're closed minded so if you want to steer clear of the WF and me, I'm fine with that. There's being a bit skeptical and cautious...and then there's utter ridiculousness.

    And I make over 6 figures but I STILL go there to ask questions, to HELP newbies (is there something WRONG with helping newbies?) Oh wait, I know - I should devote 100% of my time FREE because otherwise it's scummy.

    So it's okay to help in a free thread but brand my fat ass with a big S for scumbag if I run a WSO.

    Listen newbies and otherwise - there's good and bad everywhere. Put on your big girl panties, grow some big balls - whatever you have to do - and take responsibility for your spending habits here. Investigate the members a bit - Google is great. Ask people. WATCH their habits before you fork over the dough.

    But you won't. Because you have to HURRY and buy that next freaking report before everyone else saturates the market with that tactic, right?

    Might you get screwed anyway once in awhile? Yes. If that happens, be vocal about it! Take it straight to the product owner FIRST. If that doesn't work, if it's a scam, head to the mods. If THAT doesn't work, blog about it and drag them through the mud.

    Word of mouth is very powerful. Use it.

    Tiff

    PS - If you're reading this (person who initially asked the question above), you have two choices - consider this a wake up call, start participating here and becoming part of a group, or go pout about it and say, "See? I told you she was a scumbag!" No skin off my nose either way.
    AMEN to that!
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  • Profile picture of the author andreasnrb
    So hmm everything is great with WarriorForum and its farts smell like strawberries?
    Perhaps should wonder why WarriorForum has a bad rep. Why many people distrust it etc.
    Since a lot of people seem to do it. When ever there is some negative critique of this site on this site most people seem to blame the one giving critique.
    Because the commenter has made an different observation of the WSO section doesn't mean that that his/her observation is wrong. Its probably more likely that his/hers is correct because he/she is not part of the system (community). People seem to be blind towards the flaws of their own groups.
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    • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
      Originally Posted by andreasnrb View Post

      So hmm everything is great with WarriorForum and its farts smell like strawberries?
      Perhaps should wonder why WarriorForum has a bad rep. Why many people distrust it etc.
      Since a lot of people seem to do it. When ever there is some negative critique of this site on this site most people seem to blame the one giving critique.
      Because the commenter has made an different observation of the WSO section doesn't mean that that his/her observation is wrong. Its probably more likely that his/hers is correct because he/she is not part of the system (community). People seem to be blind towards the flaws of their own groups.
      Um you're wrong.

      She's an idiot because she's thinking that an entire group of people/WSOs are bad without proof that each and every one of them are. That's called being stupid.

      If she has proof that every 330k member is a scumbag, I'll gladly revoke my criticism of her. She's an idiot because the WWW is a vast place with lots of good apples and lots of bad. She can't see that there might be value in something and that SHE isn't good at judging character or products.

      And yes, my farts do indeed smell like strawberries in case you were wondering.
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      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
        Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

        [...]
        And yes, my farts do indeed smell like strawberries in case you were wondering.
        I SO love Texans
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      • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
        Banned
        Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

        And yes, my farts do indeed smell like strawberries in case you were wondering.

        It's TRUE!!! I bought 3 copies of her "Strawberry Farts In A Bottle" WSO...mmmmmm
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        • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
          MUST HAVE!!!

          Where's the link to that WSO!!!



          Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

          It's TRUE!!! I bought 3 copies of her "Strawberry Farts In A Bottle" WSO...mmmmmm
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          • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

            MUST HAVE!!!

            Where's the link to that WSO!!!
            No way! I'm negotiating for exclusive rights to the product
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        • Profile picture of the author dbarnum
          You go, girlfriend!

          Heck, a lot of people who knock this place do so because they came here, learned how to make a couple dollars and then tried to peddle their "Make millions this way!" WSOs afterwards and / or grow way too big too fast, had their WSOs and other specials pulled due to complaints, and were then given the boot. So don't worry about negative remarks from them.

          Plenty to learn here, and from plenty of nice, decent, good folks.

          Yeah, Warriors
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
        Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

        If she has proof that every 330k member is a scumbag, I'll gladly revoke my criticism of her. She's an idiot because the WWW is a vast place with lots of good apples and lots of bad. She can't see that there might be value in something and that SHE isn't good at judging character or products.
        You cannot judge 330,000 people based on the actions of a few. However, people don't have time to evaluate 330,000 people and determine what percentage of them are honest and what percentage are scammers.

        They have to rely on a preponderance of the evidence they have.

        Long before the Internet, I bought a product from a catalog. It was a kind of product I am familiar with and know how to use. It didn't work. It wasn't that I didn't know how to use it properly; it just didn't work.

        So, I sent it back for a replacement. I had to pay the return shipping cost.

        They sent a replacement. It also did not work. That time, I sent it back and asked for a refund.

        I received a refund, minus the shipping costs to ship the original product to me. So, I was out that, plus all the return shipping charges. In the end, I had spent maybe $25 or so for basically nothing.

        Do I know that all their products are defective? No, I do not. But, am I an idiot for not purchasing from that catalog again? I don't think so. I had a really bad experience there; why risk having another, when I can order from a different catalog that may provide me with a better customer experience?

        Many years ago, we tried a local supplier for certain goods. They were nothing but a problem, so we discontinued using them. A few years later, a new employee had worked with them at her previous workplace and swore up and down that they were very good now.

        So, we figured we'd give them another try. We sent them five orders. Those five orders came back either wrong or defective. One was marginally acceptable, and time constraints meant we had to use it, but the other four were returned.

        Clearly other places didn't have problems with them, else they wouldn't have still been in business. But, are we idiots for not ordering from them again and being distrustful of anyone who recommends them?

        I don't think so.

        Now, consider you go to a marketplace and buy five things. Let's say four of them are lousy products and one of them is marginally acceptable. Are you a fool for thinking poorly of that marketplace?

        If you buy five products and four are good and one is bad, you can may feel the marketplace isn't so bad. You just hit a run of bad luck with that one.

        But, if four out of five are bad, don't you begin the question the marketplace itself? And, if you have a difficult time getting refunds for any or all of those four products, wouldn't you have an even more negative view? Even if the marketplace itself has no control over the product or refunds, a bad experience reflects poorly not just on the seller but possibly on the marketplace itself.

        Sure, it can be argued that they just happened to pick poorly. They picked the wrong four products. Others are better. They shouldn't just assume the whole marketplace is bad simply because of a few products.

        But, who has time for that? Who wants to take that risk?

        It's sad when a few bad apples can make an entire group look bad, but it's something that happens a lot in life. You cannot blame people for wanting to avoid groups where they have run into too many bad apples. True, they may be judging too fast and they may be missing out on a lot of good apples, but, if you keep running into more bad apples than good apples, you might want to try a different tree.

        And, you might tell your friends, hey, that tree has a lot of bad apples.

        And, who can blame you?
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      • Profile picture of the author andreasnrb
        Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

        Um you're wrong.
        She's an idiot because she's thinking that an entire group of people/WSOs are bad without proof that each and every one of them are. That's called being stupid.
        [...]
        And yes, my farts do indeed smell like strawberries in case you were wondering.
        She doesn't have to have proof that each and everyone is. Its the general impression that counts. Same goes with SEO experts. People don't see WarriorForum as a group of individuals they see it as one marketplace. If you have bad experience with bunch of vendors on the town market will you buy at that market again? Not likely.

        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        Sure you betcha we tend to be blind to our own flaws!
        We can express those opinions wherever we want too also. BUT...
        Expressing an opinion on a site we don't own is a privilege.
        Expressing our opinion on a site we DO own is our right.
        I don't think your seeing the difference.
        I see the difference and its not even what I'm referring too. I'm referring to all comenters that says the scumbag calling is wrong but who don't consider why that impression exists in the first place. That is being blind to ones own faults.

        Dan wrote it much better than I did.
        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

        You cannot judge 330,000 people based on the actions of a few. However, people don't have time to evaluate 330,000 people and determine what percentage of them are honest and what percentage are scammers.
        [...]
        It's sad when a few bad apples can make an entire group look bad, but it's something that happens a lot in life. You cannot blame people for wanting to avoid groups where they have run into too many bad apples. True, they may be judging too fast and they may be missing out on a lot of good apples, but, if you keep running into more bad apples than good apples, you might want to try a different tree.

        And, you might tell your friends, hey, that tree has a lot of bad apples.

        And, who can blame you?
        Excellent post Dan. You wrote what I was referring too earlier.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      Sure you betcha we tend to be blind to our own flaws!

      We can express those opinions wherever we want too also. BUT...

      Expressing an opinion on a site we don't own is a privilege.

      Expressing our opinion on a site we DO own is our right.

      I don't think your seeing the difference.

      Originally Posted by andreasnrb View Post

      So hmm everything is great with WarriorForum and its farts smell like strawberries?
      Perhaps should wonder why WarriorForum has a bad rep. Why many people distrust it etc.
      Since a lot of people seem to do it. When ever there is some negative critique of this site on this site most people seem to blame the one giving critique.
      Because the commenter has made an different observation of the WSO section doesn't mean that that his/her observation is wrong. Its probably more likely that his/hers is correct because he/she is not part of the system (community). People seem to be blind towards the flaws of their own groups.
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  • Profile picture of the author Christian Chan
    Tiffany Dow is a class act.
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  • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
    Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

    No skin off my nose either way.
    Well said Tiffany. I should start using that phrase more often myself...

    -Lakshay
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  • Profile picture of the author azmanar
    Hi,

    The girl has a point. She pointed out her bad experience and made a conclusion. Her generalization about WF is to her disadvantage.

    Well that is her experience.

    How about our own experience in WF? I have good and bad experience in here. More of the good ones. And the bad ones are good learning experience that made me wiser.

    " Knowledge rests not upon truth alone, but upon error also. "
    Carl Jung
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    Hey Dan!

    I see your point but one supplier being bad is one thing. Same as one member here. But to say all are bad is ridiculous IMO. She should be asking instead, "I've always been wary of WF because I've heard this and that - but you seem to have had different experiences. How do I make sure my experience is positive there too?"

    Or something to that effect.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    Not all people see the WF as purely a marketplace - I think a lot of us perceive it as a community of sorts. Members come and go, but there's almost always a regular group around.

    Just the fact that this person focused only on the marketplace aspect of the WF indicates pretty clearly they didn't really understand what the WF is all about or the potential it offers. I'll bet you dollars to donuts they didn't make any effort to really participate here.

    No, it's not perfect but show me any forum online that is. And nobody knows that better than members who have been around a while.

    Regardless of what this person thinks about the WF, I think making Tiffany guilty (which is what the poster was trying to do) by association was pretty far out there. She has no idea what Tiff does or doesn't here, which also tells me this person is just a crank with an ax to grind.
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    I'm not blind to the faults of some people here. This person acts as if I advise people to trust everyone here just because they're WF members. I teach people to shop on reputation and ethics.

    I think it's ridiculous for someone to say that I can't be trusted because I DO recommend this forum. That's like me saying you can't be trusted with restaurant reviews because I had bad food. I'd be ignoring the fact that maybe it's not always that way and maybe you chose a better meal option than me.

    I always like to judge for myself, period.
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    • Profile picture of the author netlexis
      Hey Tiff,

      A little past newbie here... I pulled up my big girl panties about a year or so ago, adjusted my BS antenna and waded in. It's been okay, not too scarey and I've found a lot of good info here and a few gurus I'm really happy to have found (you included). It was totally necessary because the Internet is too big and too fast moving to go it alone. Things change so fast that what works today is probably obsolete six months from now. So what if most people are trying to make a buck or two... welcome to world! I'm doing that, too, but being smart about it. I don't buy every WSO that comes along and I use common sense and gut instincts to decide where my money will go and no one is twisting my arm. Gosh... I'm acting like a grown up! Making my own decisions. What a novel idea!

      Anyway, as someone earlier said, if you're a scumbag, we're all in good company.
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  • Profile picture of the author WebPen
    I wouldn't let it get to you Tiff.

    There's always a naysayer, always someone not willing to do the work, always someone who has to say that the sky is purple, not blue.

    We all know that the WF is a solid place to build relationships and help each other out. If that person doesn't want to benefit from this plethora of knowledge, so be it!
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  • Profile picture of the author bhappy3402
    Well apparently she has no freakin clue! Tell her to pull the stick out of her a** and forget about making any type of money either online or offline! She'll never make it, as an IM you have to have thick skin sometimes and obviously she doesn't and she's not cut out for this. We love ya Tiffany!!
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