Marketing to the marketers, are you sold by WSO hype?

by Simplweb 47 replies
OK, so I might be permanently digging a grave for myself here on these boards, but here goes.....

The vast majority of members here have some connection to Internet Marketing. I am also gonna assume we are all relatively intelligent.

So can the hype that is in the WSO forum really work on us?

I have a motive here, I am pondering the format of a WSO I want to offer, and browsing through the WSO's. After 5 minutes my brain is starting to hurt from all the POWER PACKED EXCLUSIVE opportunities to EXPLODE my sales.

I have to wonder if the sales hype more hurts than helps on this particular forum. Wouldn't a clear object description of the offer do better?

Does IM sales hype work on you?
#main internet marketing discussion forum #hype #marketers #marketing #sold #wso
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    Personally, I avoid hype in my promotions, but that's just me.

    As for everybody else, if it didn't work, they wouldn't use it.

    Naturally, there has to be some substance to the offer and I think the smart
    members can read through the BS.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kael41
      Nope, I'm completely disenfranchised by hype to be honest. I love to see an openended sales letter with enough supporting facts to lend me to believe that the wso is credible. These are the two biggest turn offs WSO-wise:

      1) Overly hyped WSO
      2) testimonial feedback from members who have 1-50 posts touting it as the bestest ever.
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      • Profile picture of the author Simplweb
        Intrigued by Steven's claim, I scanned his WSO's. I'd say they do "avoid hype". Interestingly his off site page, Warrior Special Offers is a little more... traditional. Steven, do you have differences as to off/on forum copy? I assume that page is for warriors only?

        You are both confirming my gut feel, but why is there so much hype in that forum then?

        Kael, nice sites, I like the design
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Simplweb View Post

          Intrigued by Steven's claim, I scanned his WSO's. I'd say they do "avoid hype". Interestingly his off site page, Warrior Special Offers is a little more... traditional. Steven, do you have differences as to off/on forum copy? I assume that page is for warriors only?

          You are both confirming my gut feel, but why is there so much hype in that forum then?

          Kael, nice sites, I like the design
          Yes, that page is for Warriors only and it is not promoted outside of
          this forum.

          I am a no nonsense, no BS marketer. I know I lose a lot of sales that way
          because I don't sugar coat things and don't promise the moon, but that's
          just the way I do things. I don't expect others to follow this formula as I
          know it isn't as effective. Just look at the top products at the Clickbank
          marketplace to see what I mean.

          It's just not my style.
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        • Profile picture of the author Zach Booker
          I hate hype...I never buy anything that is hyped up even if its good.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jason Fladlien
            Originally Posted by Zach Booker View Post

            I hate hype...I never buy anything that is hyped up even if its good.
            That sucks because you miss out on a lot of good products that way.

            I love hype... I use it all the time. Why? Because I only design products that can do BOLD things. If your product can't do something bold, why are you creating it in the first place?

            But the trick is not just Hype=Sales. It's Hype + Proof = Sales.

            And you don't have to look outside of the feedback I get on my WSO's to see the proof to back up my claims. If I would've written from the heel, do you think I would've got nearly as many people excited about buying from me?

            NO!

            And I would've did them a disservice, because of the results they got from my products.

            Actually, when I sit down and write the copy, I don't have this noise going on in my head of "should it be hypey or not, blah blah blah". Jesus christ, how doyou right your copy if you're dealing with this little insecure voice in your head all the time?

            Instead, I just sit down and right from the heart. Whatever I'm inspired to write for the copy is what comes out. Then I just polish it up and put it on the market and see how many sales it brings in.

            I think a lot of you guys are just making it too complicated.

            -Jason
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          • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
            Originally Posted by Zach Booker View Post

            I hate hype...I never buy anything that is hyped up even if its good.
            If I had that benchmark I would have missed out on some real kick ass products and seminars. But hey, I'm a little nuts too.

            Rod
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            - Jim Rohn
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    • Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Personally, I avoid hype in my promotions, but that's just me.

      As for everybody else, if it didn't work, they wouldn't use it.

      Naturally, there has to be some substance to the offer and I think the smart
      members can read through the BS.

      Like Steven, I also use zero-hype in all my salespages. They are all pretty simple and straightforward. But that is because I hate long and hyped salespages. As Steven says, if these methods didn’t work, why would hundreds of internet marketers use them?

      I do think that hype doesn't influence the buying decisions of the seasoned marketers, because most of them know how to separate the wheat from chaff. For the rest of us, we do get sucked by hype sometimes.

      Arindam
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  • Profile picture of the author Simon_Sezs
    Originally Posted by Simplweb View Post

    OK, so I might be permanently digging a grave for myself here on these boards, but here goes.....

    The vast majority of members here have some connection to Internet Marketing. I am also gonna assume we are all relatively intelligent.

    So can the hype that is in the WSO forum really work on us?

    I have a motive here, I am pondering the format of a WSO I want to offer, and browsing through the WSO's. After 5 minutes my brain is starting to hurt from all the POWER PACKED EXCLUSIVE opportunities to EXPLODE my sales.

    I have to wonder if the sales hype more hurts than helps on this particular forum. Wouldn't a clear object description of the offer do better?

    Does IM sales hype work on you?
    Different people have different reasons for creating a WSO. For some, the end of the line is the WSO itself. For others, it could be to test market viability or the ad copy.

    Hype and **Sizzle** is just one of those necessary evils for most. After all, how many products would be sold with a headline like "Here is my product....take it or leave it...?" The key is to be able to back up your claims and this is where most marketers fail.

    If you are going to use hype in your WSO, you best be able to back it up or else your refund rate will soar or worse yet, people won't buy from you again.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andy Money
      Simpleweb, I agree. This is why I'm so confused about how IM has lasted as a niche that is profitable so widely.
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      • Profile picture of the author Simplweb
        Originally Posted by mrsleep99 View Post

        Simpleweb, I agree. This is why I'm so confused about how IM has lasted as a niche that is profitable so widely.
        I think the answer is that the IM set are perhaps THE most likely demographic to buy informational products online. In other markets you have to spend alot of energy doing things like convincing customers its ok to use credit cards online

        Originally Posted by Simon_Sezs View Post

        Different people have different reasons for creating a WSO. For some, the end of the line is the WSO itself. For others, it could be to test market viability or the ad copy.
        mmm, I did not think of that....
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        • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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          • Profile picture of the author Simplweb
            ^ Sorry Mike, I didn't get that.....
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            • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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              • Profile picture of the author Simplweb
                ahhh, I see. Good tip, make sure you have a real identity
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                • Profile picture of the author Frank Bruno
                  Hype sells if you can back it up, but I prefer to intigrate stories into my promotions if possible. I have some hype products that I sell and I have others that tell more of a story and how it can help the person reading.

                  Both work well but overall the story intigration will outpull I believe in all markets.

                  Frank Bruno
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steve Taylor
                    Most newbies buy into the hype. When they get their WSO and realize there is work involved, that package goes into a folder called...digital dreams.

                    -Steve
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                    • Profile picture of the author Diontec
                      Originally Posted by Steve Taylor View Post

                      Most newbies buy into the hype. When they get their WSO and realize there is work involved, that package goes into a folder called...digital dreams.

                      -Steve
                      Yep!! Work is involved. But i say If they have common sense" they would know that. A ton of people in here know how to recognize whats "real" and whats not. I got mislead before too by a few offline & online companies but thats what made me stronger, wiser and very selective about "who" I listen to & can the person show & prove that lifestyle 'really" exist.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Simplweb
                        Hmmm, it seems the overwhelming opinion is that people are not sold to hype (unless perhaps they are new )

                        Why, then, are the majority of posts in the WSO board hype filled? Are they all:

                        a. misguided
                        b. aimed at "newbs"

                        ?
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                        • Profile picture of the author SpeedDemon
                          I don't get sold by hype in the WSO forum, but I also don't get upset by people who use it in their posts. I know it's a great place to test headlines and copy before a full-on product launch.

                          For WSOs, I mostly look at what the product does. I've bought some good products from newer Warriors, so I won't automatically write someone off for having a low post count.
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                          • Profile picture of the author bobmcalister
                            well...send me a check for $1.58 million and I will tell you how to make a million a month ...from now on!

                            and so it goes, I am always interested in any new idea or method of selling and advertising...and know that some Hype goes with it ...but

                            I have turned into a demanding buyer of WSO's and hold the seller accountable...when I can...up to the point of requesting a refund....
                            and

                            I dont mind having a rep as a refund type of guy but no one who has a legitimate product to back up the BASIC claims made in the sales letter has to worry about me asking for refunds...if a WSO is advertised as , say , a licensing program to increase offline sales, and upon purchase , turns out to be a revised edition of how to do JV;s on line....I ask for refunds...

                            If someone proposes that they have a SYSTEM of doing such and so , I order, and it is not a SYSTEM but an IDEA...I ask for refunds.

                            If more warriors do like I do , the products would be better ..or I will be banned.

                            this place reminds me of the situation I found myself in when I was a youngster...

                            the ad read

                            Make 5 dollars a day
                            send 50 cents to :

                            I did ....got a letter . or a postcard readlly , that said

                            run the same ad , until you make 5 bux a day ...then do it again and again ....

                            get the same feeling around the wso page....the sellers are baiting a bunch of want to believe consumers , albeit naive. and when we get testimonials from warriors with little or no posts, it should be an alarm going off.

                            thinking of doing a WSO myself on this very subject , except it would be free or a donation to the local feed the kids or something...

                            and for all you ADHD people like me, maybe we can get together and make a book of ideas to sell ...I know I have several notebooks full ....

                            thanks for the post ....you beat me to it

                            bob
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                        • Profile picture of the author Eric Johnson
                          Originally Posted by Simplweb View Post

                          Hmmm, it seems the overwhelming opinion is that people are not sold to hype (unless perhaps they are new )

                          Why, then, are the majority of posts in the WSO board hype filled? Are they all:

                          a. misguided
                          b. aimed at "newbs"

                          ?
                          To be honest with you I wouldn't believe it...just like any survey out there. People just aren't honest, even with themselves, a lot of the time when asked something. This could come off as if I am saying you guys are a bunch of liars and I'm not, it's just that these things sell, and the hypyer (is that a word?) ones are the ones that tend to do the best it seems. It's clearly working.

                          I used to do traditional, face to face sales and it never ceased to amaze me how you could use blatant techniques on people who were intelligent and they would tell you over and over again how they were turned off by salesy stuff but they would buy...a lot of the times while telling you about how much they hate being sold to. People are funny...
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                        • Profile picture of the author Kael41
                          Originally Posted by Simplweb View Post

                          Hmmm, it seems the overwhelming opinion is that people are not sold to hype (unless perhaps they are new )

                          Why, then, are the majority of posts in the WSO board hype filled? Are they all:

                          a. misguided
                          b. aimed at "newbs"

                          ?

                          I think a majority of them are misguided, or at the very least well intentioned to find that miracle bullet that will enable them to make tons of money online. When desperation is at its highest and there's a couple bucks left in paypal...your subsection "b" bites on the fluff..

                          David

                          ps- thanks for the props on the templates. LOVE joomla.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
                            I think most people won't admit they buy into the hype so don't take the anti-hype responses here as "proof" against hype. :-)

                            Folks get embarrassed to admit they bought into the hype. It's like the elections. Every poll says that voters don't like dirty campaigns yet that is what works so the mud starts a-slinging.

                            It's in the self-conscious. Very few of us say...I want to find the most hyped up sales page so I can buy it. But if we get sucked into the hype we start rationalizing that it really isn't hype.

                            Hype sells movies, products, clothing, toys, and a lot of other things like IM products. I like to think I don't buy into hype but I have. I always feel dirty afterward. :-)
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                            • Profile picture of the author Eric Johnson
                              Originally Posted by Alan Petersen View Post

                              I like to think I don't buy into hype but I have. I always feel dirty afterward. :-)
                              But is it the good kind of dirty?
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                              • Profile picture of the author Gary Huynh
                                There are certain psychological buying triggers that every human is affected by. No matter how hard you try to resist you will succumb to these triggers. Curiosity is one example.

                                Many people who write the sales copy for their WSO either intentionally or unintentionally place these triggers in their post. So even if we know it's hype, we fall prey to its powers.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Tom Sheltraw
                                  I for one need Features and Benefits not Hype. I realize many Warriors want to test their copy but that brings up the question of whether the WF has the same makeup as the general public or because they are “IM’ers” do they have a more refined Hype Detector and would pass on an offer. That of course would skew the test.

                                  Just my 2-cents.

                                  Tom
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman
                                    I wouldn't even try the traditional sales page / squeeze page type writing here. I have a product, this is what it does, this is the special offer for warriors, this is where you can get it. I still use bolds for emphasis, a few keys like "instantly download", but try to avoid the "make $3,103,523 the first year" type claims.

                                    That's what I've done and the sales have come.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Simplweb
                                      Someone pointed out to me the valid observation that few of us are going to admit to being "taken in by hype" so of course everyone will say that "they aren't sold by hype"
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Sleaklight
                                        I hate the flashy WSO's posted here. I do look through them but don't believe a single word of any of them. I skip the headlines and look at what is actually being offered. I disregard the bonuses, because bonuses is not what is being sold nor what I want. I like the straight to the point WSO's. Tell me what you are selling not what it will do for me. I can figure out what it will do for me. There's a bunch of false hope put into the WSO's and many sales letters going. I find, after testing several formats, that sales letters that go to the point and are not full of big sticker looking graphics and bid fat red bold text do better.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Kate Anderson
                                        I've been working online for ten years, and I definitely still get taken in by the hype.. thankfully, I love every bit of it. In fact, the day I get bored, jaded, immune or numb to the flashy, la-de-da sales pages, is the day I will ultimately retire from IM and find something else to do.

                                        For me, it's not always "hype" but rather, someone who sounds excited about their product - which in turn - causes me to get excited about their product.

                                        Now, of course there's a huge difference from lies, dishonesty and exaggeration.. those things will turn anyone off (and give some newbies credit, even they can see through a lot of that BS). But, someone who is able to go over the top yet still sound credible gets me every single time.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author dbh
                                          Originally Posted by Kate Anderson View Post

                                          For me, it's not always "hype" but rather, someone who sounds excited about their product - which in turn - causes me to get excited about their product.

                                          .....But, someone who is able to go over the top yet still sound credible gets me every single time.
                                          Good points. Hadn't really thought about it that way but I agree. If someone gets me excited about their product then I'm usually clicking the pay button before long......

                                          - Darrell
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                                      • Profile picture of the author jhongren
                                        Personally i go by the feedbacks and reviews by the senior members in the WSO thread (if any)

                                        And PM the seller some questions and see how good and fast are their responses.

                                        My 2 cents,
                                        John
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                    • Profile picture of the author macchiavelli
                      Originally Posted by Steve Taylor View Post

                      Most newbies buy into the hype. When they get their WSO and realize there is work involved, that package goes into a folder called...digital dreams.

                      -Steve
                      Basically hahah.
                      I guarantee you that 90% of the wso's sold are legit methods that work, BUT they do need to be implemented.
                      Once newbies find that part out they are dissapointed
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                      • Profile picture of the author Greg Cooksley
                        There are a number of ways to look at this issue but I'll just
                        highlight one for now:

                        people are built differently. Some tend to be more left brained
                        and others right brained. The left brained dudes are more analytical
                        and tend to be critical of things like hype. They want to cut-to-the-chase,
                        the lowdown, exempt from frills and hype.

                        On the other hand, the right brained dudes tend to be open to
                        the flash, the hype and are more impressed by the glitz and glamour.

                        One of the sales courses I did, last century, was by a guy called
                        Tom Hopkins (IMO - an absolute epitomy of a true Salesman). He
                        said that the easiest people to sell to in the world are sales
                        people. They know they're being sold to, they know all the buying
                        signals, the open and closed questions - and they love it.

                        Now, consider that most IM'ers (I know I'm generalising), tend
                        to be left brained, analytical computer boffins. Then, adjust
                        your sales approach accordingly.

                        To throw a spanner in the works, this is a marketing forum. So,
                        most true marketers are right brained (more creative), so theoretically
                        you should be able to hype up the hype....

                        As long as the product lives up to and overdelivers on the hype,
                        you'll be OK.....

                        Thoughts???

                        Regards

                        Greg
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          • Profile picture of the author Simon_Sezs
            Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

            Appearently he found some sucker to run a WSO on his behalf - that's the other reason for watching out for the hype. A lot of scammers have tried that route before.
            Big Mike, you are a big jerk. If you want to see the product, I will send it to you PRO BONO just to prove a point. The only caveat will be that you will have to recant.
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            • Profile picture of the author Tuzic
              Banned
              Hi,

              I think certain products online need hype it can be necessary in order to sell or make a sale.

              & it does seem to work since the WSO do well!!

              Alternatively the person overly exaggerating & creating too much hype should think if it the WSO is really great, brilliant & fantastic etc then why hype so much???????????
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          • Profile picture of the author Jason K. Thomas
            Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

            Appearently he found some sucker to run a WSO on his behalf - that's the other reason for watching out for the hype. A lot of scammers have tried that route before.
            BIG Mike (that's your real name, right?),

            46 years old, and you're calling people you don't know anything about "suckers". Real mature. Just as an FYI, many of the ideas in the ebook were mine, and I designed the link cloaker. And, by the way, I have a U.S. Verified Business PayPal account with a real email address. I don't think that's really all that anonymous.

            Regards,
            The "Sucker" with one of the hottest WSO's in the last month
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            • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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              • Profile picture of the author zerofill
                I miss something...I didn't see Big Mike mention any names of anyone...

                Anyway...The WSO is just a testing grounds for a vast majority I think. If your WSO does well here...you can pretty much know that it will do well outside of here. Because the biggest scrutiny will come from the experienced marketers on the forum. THey will even offer constructive critisism which helps a hell of a lot before you tackle the main stream outside the forum.
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              • Profile picture of the author Chipt
                Personally, my hype alarm goes off [if applicable] before I get through the above-the-fold section of the copy... and... well... as to the stupid and completely unbelievable headlines, I won't even go there...

                [And so many people have such pretty little names and all sorts of justification for 'hype.']

                But IMO it's no different than lying about anything else. Period. And if any person will lie to you once, they'll lie to you again... and again... and again.

                Because their character flaws and their complete lack of integrity are larger and far more powerful than their ethics...

                And for some odd reason they are also so totally entralled by their own ego and self-aggrandizemant as well, which is so obvious in the copy when people read what they are really saying instead of the mere font characters on a page...

                And IMO it's just wrong.

                Chip Tarver

                PS - But hey -- what do I know? In my efforts to ferret out the ethical marketers from the hype mongers and liars in the past, all I ever got was criticized or deleted... so I wonder what that really says about people who dare to 'rock the establishment and the popular hype boat'??? For me personally, if I chose the hype/lying route I'd have to take all the mirrors out of my house and take lots of strong sleeping pills to be able to sleep at night... but that's just me...
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              • Profile picture of the author Jason K. Thomas
                Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

                Um...In Simon's other thread he said he already had the ebook - so how could the ideas have been yours?

                Dude, attack me all you want - I've got teflon skin. You're not the only one running the WSO, and I asked a legitimate question about one of the sellers.

                So tell me, is that how you treat your customers and potential buyers? Call them names, threaten them (Simon's threat to profile me and expose my niches) and so forth?

                And I don' want a free copy of your WSO. If I get it, I will pay for it just like anyone else. Once I get the answer to the question I've asked.
                I contributed some (not all) to the ebook, just like he contributed some ideas to the cloaker. We have owernship of the individual products and thought it would make a great package. Hence, the JV.

                And speaking of name calling, BM, you called me a "sucker".

                We've both bought plenty of WSO's, and are contributing members to the forum (esp. when it's in regards to computers / technology, in my case). That's it. No conspiracy. And Simon gave an apology. How about an apology for name calling me?

                End it already.
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                • Profile picture of the author Nicholas Ho
                  I am exposed to a lot of hype.
                  Believe me, get use to it, but I personally don't think it will be good to be part of your long term business strategies.
                  It is like if you have been cheated several times, you will not believe in the cheater anymore, no matter what good they did.

                  Avoid it, it is the best solution.

                  -Nicholas Ho
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                • Profile picture of the author tamtu
                  My thought too, actually I got a WSO [my first one] lined up and was wondering whether I should hype the offer,I don't like hype but I do get carried away with some and fall flat on my face. So hype does work. I have decided to drop the hype for my WSO but if I find it doesn't work I will have to rethink.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

            Appearently he found some sucker to run a WSO on his behalf - that's the other reason for watching out for the hype. A lot of scammers have tried that route before.
            Dude, you're being a bit obsessive, aincha?

            The seller, as in, "the person who takes your money and gives you the product," is a known entity. (At least as far as one can be, within the system.) They offered to give you a copy of the product, to review for yourself. You no longer have any legitimate reason to harass these people or to even suggest that something funny might be going on.

            You have had every opportunity at this point to either put up or shut up. You refuse to put up. I, personally, would like to see you exercise the other option at this point.

            Hijacking other people's threads to push a purely ego-based obsession is not generally considered to be polite behavior.


            Paul

            PS: Yes, ego-based. From the moment you refused an opportunity to review the product for yourself, you forfeited any reasonable expectation of being taken seriously on the legitimacy of the offer. You're throwing a persistent, low-grade tantrum because someone won't give you what you want.
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      • Profile picture of the author dbh
        Nope. I really don't care for lots of hype, and I don't use it in my own WSOs. I just try to outline the benefits and present enough information for people to make decisions.

        When buying WSOs, I tend to just try and zero in on what I want and buy it if possible. The more hype, the more I'm turned off and keep seeking.

        - Darrell
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Originally Posted by Simplweb View Post

    ...I have to wonder if the sales hype more hurts than helps on this particular forum. Wouldn't a clear object description of the offer do better?

    Does IM sales hype work on you?
    First we'd all have to agree what "hype" is because the more people I ask what it means to them, the more different answers I get. To me it's always been hyperbole, which is nothing more than: a figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect.

    Clearly, in copy writing and in this forum it carries multiple meanings.

    Then if we all agree on what hype is (I know, I know) then there's the matter on agreeing on what level of hype might be acceptable, which would be impossible since each reader / person is different.

    Does sales hype work on me? Sometimes. And I've been writing copy for nearly two decades (direct mail before I jumped on the web). It all depends on whether or not it's a product or service I'm looking for.

    Rod
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