179 replies
$280 worth of refunds in 3 weeks including $100 today alone.

Screw that.

This what I get for promoting another person's product, however, so it is partly my fault. Being an affiliate is a newbie mistake but I was doing pretty good there for a while so I thought maybe I had FINALLY found a decent CB product. I was wrong.

I'm taking down ALL of my Clickbank links this month and just promoting my stuff from now on. Lesson learned. Again.
#clickbank #goodbye
  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    That really sucks. Sorry to hear that. There is a lot of junk on CB, hence the high refund rates for so many of them.
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    • Profile picture of the author ruby2011
      Originally Posted by timpears View Post

      There is a lot of junk on CB, hence the high refund rates for so many of them.
      That is the reason i do not promote CB although the commission rate is much higher than other affiliate network. i am a dedicated advocator of CJ, which never happens such a case. First choose a reliable network then choose a profitable product, start marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ilse
    Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

    $280 worth of refunds in 3 weeks including $100 today alone.

    Screw that.

    This what I get for promoting another person's product, however, so it is partly my fault. Being an affiliate is a newbie mistake but I was doing pretty good there for a while so I thought maybe I had FINALLY found a decent CB product. I was wrong.

    I'm taking down ALL of my Clickbank links this month and just promoting my stuff from now on. Lesson learned. Again.
    That happens to me all the time when I promote forex products. Had $7500 in refunds this year so far. I gave up on this...
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    • Profile picture of the author CopywritingTony
      Originally Posted by Ilse View Post

      That happens to me all the time when I promote forex products. Had $7500 in refunds this year so far. I gave up on this...
      $7500? wow that's insane. That's why I stick to physical products and services.

      Best Regards,
      Copywriting Tony
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  • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
    Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

    $280 worth of refunds in 3 weeks including $100 today alone.

    Screw that.

    This what I get for promoting another person's product, however, so it is partly my fault. Being an affiliate is a newbie mistake but I was doing pretty good there for a while so I thought maybe I had FINALLY found a decent CB product. I was wrong.

    I'm taking down ALL of my Clickbank links this month and just promoting my stuff from now on. Lesson learned. Again.
    Hey Rich

    You might be getting out when you should be thinking about staying in

    Since Sept 1st is when they should have thinned out all the crap on there and the quality of products should improve and the refund rates decrease.

    Only time will tell

    Kickin it on Amazon

    Gaz Cooper
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  • Profile picture of the author dsbusiness23
    Sorry to hear that you have so much bad luck with Clickbank lately. I have noticed more refunds lately then in the past. However I don't think you need to give up on Clickbank entirely, just try selling a different product. There are a few very legitimate programs on clickbank.

    Another really good strategy is to offer to help your customers by adding something like "Send me your receipt after purchase and I will help you to make this product work for you." Or something like that. Or to offer bonuses for buying through you so that the customer trusts you and feels that they got more value, even if the product didn't live up to all their expectations.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Happy marketing, Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author Nikhil V Nair
    I hope the products is either in the Forex niche or Make money online niche. Have you personally reviewed the product?.

    People who buy make money online products are more likely to ask for a refund( even if the product is good). The main reason is they know the 60 day money back guarantee of Clickbank very much.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Rich,

      What type of products are you promoting?

      I don't promote any kind of MMO stuff or anything well known. I've never had a high refund rate either.
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      • Profile picture of the author Matt.Lake
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        What type of products are you promoting?
        I was going to ask the same thing. I'm guessing the MMO market.

        And what was the refund rate in terms of a percentage? If you made $10K in that same period then $280 isn't so bad.

        Matt
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by GazCooperOnline View Post

        You might be getting out when you should be thinking about staying in

        Since Sept 1st is when they should have thinned out all the crap on there and the quality of products should improve and the refund rates decrease.
        ^^^ This.

        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        I don't promote any kind of MMO stuff or anything well known. I've never had a high refund rate either.
        ^^^ And this.

        Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

        The problem is promoting CRAPPY and HIPEY products
        ^^^ And this.

        I just stay away from MMO, IM-advice and Forex (the first two I wouldn't want to promote for a few other reasons quite apart from the quality of the products and who buys them) and I have almost no refunds at all.
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        • Profile picture of the author FredJones
          This is THE golden piece of advise.

          Clickbank+MMO= No, no, no.

          I have stayed away so far too, and hence my refund rates in Clickbank is small. Pretty small.

          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          I just stay away from MMO, IM-advice and Forex (the first two I wouldn't want to promote for a few other reasons quite apart from the quality of the products and who buys them) and I have almost no refunds at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author adbash
    Probably there's problem with niche, maybe you will find another program that will fit to your website and then it will give good profits.
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    • Profile picture of the author Net Solutions
      Banned
      Personally, I agree with Vincent, the niche matters a lot when doing affiliate marketing - Some niches such as dating get low refunds, while for obvious reasons, IM/MMO products have the highest refund rate..Choose carefully!
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  • Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

    $280 worth of refunds in 3 weeks including $100 today alone.

    Screw that.

    This what I get for promoting another person's product, however, so it is partly my fault. Being an affiliate is a newbie mistake but I was doing pretty good there for a while so I thought maybe I had FINALLY found a decent CB product. I was wrong.

    I'm taking down ALL of my Clickbank links this month and just promoting my stuff from now on. Lesson learned. Again.
    The problem is not being an affiliate promoting someone else's product. The problem is promoting CRAPPY and HIPEY products, regardless of whether they're yours or not.
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    • Profile picture of the author dorianjohn425
      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

      The problem is not being an affiliate promoting someone else's product. The problem is promoting CRAPPY and HIPEY products, regardless of whether they're yours or not.
      Yes, yes, I agree with you....if it's a good product, maybe lesser refunds
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
    Refund rates have nothing to do with the processor and EVERYTHING to do with the niche.

    Clickbank makes refunding easy and less confrontational. And in this niche it spells abuse.

    I have a vegan cookbook on CB with no refunds except for a few who thought they bought the physical version. They still ended up customers however just physical
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    • Profile picture of the author Christian Chan
      Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

      Refund rates have nothing to do with the processor and EVERYTHING to do with the niche.

      Clickbank makes refunding easy and less confrontational. And in this niche it spells abuse.

      I have a vegan cookbook on CB with no refunds except for a few who thought they bought the physical version. They still ended up customers however just physical :)
      I kinda like you, Brad. I was in the porn niche too, pretty much like you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andy Money
      Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

      Refund rates have nothing to do with the processor and EVERYTHING to do with the niche.

      Clickbank makes refunding easy and less confrontational. And in this niche it spells abuse.

      I have a vegan cookbook on CB with no refunds except for a few who thought they bought the physical version. They still ended up customers however just physical
      100% true. I have a digital product not in the marketing niche and I don't think I've had a refund in over a year. Find something in a different niche that REAL people will buy (not marketers/serial refunders) and has decent search volume within the niche, then bank with that. You'll have way better results.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    I agree with much of the above. It boils down to the products you promote, and after the "CB Sweep" it should 'clean-up a bit!

    As a 'rookie' of sort myself, I am glad I didn't do too much work promoting MMO (Make Money Online) products, as even some that are good will require revision to comply, and if the vendor decides NOT to perform those changes, it could cause a nightmare for those of us with sites, and a ton of links 'out there'...I probably couldn't find all my links if I had too...LOL

    Luckily, most of (not all but most) of the products I have out there should be OK but I expect some will disappear, leaving a ton of dead links all over the net.

    Sucks, but I think it's for the better for everyone.
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  • Profile picture of the author nbw
    I sell plenty of Clickbank products that have refund rates of around 1%. The reason you have a high refund rate is because the product you're promoting is terrible, nothing to do with Clickbank.

    Promote quality products on Clickbank and you won't get high refunds. It really is that simple.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hans Klein
    There typically are a few percentage points of refunds in certain niches on Clickbank from "Instant refunders" who know about the lax refund policy.

    However... this is normally a nominal amount.

    As others have said, refunds vary by niche. More specifically... it's coming from sales copy that sets high expectations and a product that doesn't deliver on them.

    As an affiliate... you can reduce refund rates by:

    1. Pick products that match the claims used in the sales copy.

    2. Pick up where the products leave off. Create complimentary bonuses customers who you a receipt get... and delay the release of some part of the bonus. For instance, a webinar series that takes place over 60-days.

    Moreover... if you're selling to the "Make money" niche and most of your customers are in deep financial trouble...

    Then you're going to have a lot more trouble with refunds.

    That said... you're looking at the big picture. A sales page may have higher than normal refund rates. However... it converts high enough.... you've got to do the math to see if it's worth promoting.
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    • Profile picture of the author CheshireCat
      Originally Posted by Hans Klein View Post

      As others have said, refunds vary by niche. More specifically... it's coming from sales copy that sets high expectations and a product that doesn't deliver on them.
      On that point, while I don't know if the OP was doing that, it's hard to not imagine a high refund rate on products where the sales page shows pics of fancy mansions, shiny new cars, and sales copy with phrases like "steaming piles of cash" (accompanied with pics of cash) emblazoned across it all . . . all above the fold.

      It's as if it's all a big race to see who can out-hype the next guy the fastest (and that, indeed, may well be the case).

      Especially, if this is MMO, and your target audience is promised the ability to pay their bills in as little as a week from now and not lose the house or their car.

      And this is especially true if the product ends up basically saying the same stuff the last 10 MMO ebooks said. In fact, as I write this, I'm staring at a WSO link saying . . .

      "21-Year-Old Girl Used THIS to Make $1482.56 Her Very First Week!
      No Skills And Zero Experience Required - Click Here To Try It Out!"

      For all I know, it may be the best WSO and/or product ever (and, in fact, may deliver), but if it doesn't deliver something substantially better, different, or considerably more innovative and workable than some 20 other functionally identical info-products, how can you not have a high rate of returns?

      Not only that, but if indeed it is simply an overly hyped rehash, and this guy or gal is desperate to make something work, then not only will they be disappointed or perhaps upset, but even insulted and indignant that you wasted their time and cheaply manipulated their emotions . . . and they would be right to feel that way.

      What's also surprising (or not, as the case may be) is that while the sales copy for many of these offers seems perfectly literate and readable, very often the ebook or guide itself isn't, and dismally so in that respect. For some reason, the ability to competently teach a subject as opposed to the ability to hype it up in breathy, hagiographic, and self-congratulatory sales copy are mutually exclusive skills, with one not insuring the other.

      So, given that, the throwing crap at a wall and hoping something sticks approach, devoid of any relationship building or establishing any kind of trust, can definitely prove problematic.

      Just my $0.02.

      Chesh
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  • Profile picture of the author Diane S
    The digital products I promote in all niches except MMO have a normal return rate, right around 1%, but often lower. I try to pick only top-quality MMO products to promote, but there is a LOT of junk to filter out in that niche. I sure do hope ClickBank will clean up its offerings.
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  • Profile picture of the author benjaedging
    I got well over 40% refunds with clickbank and for the same product using plimus I only got 2% refunds :S...

    Clickbank should really do something and stop providing people with refunds just because they want it.
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

    $280 worth of refunds in 3 weeks including $100 today alone.

    Screw that.

    This what I get for promoting another person's product, however, so it is partly my fault. Being an affiliate is a newbie mistake but I was doing pretty good there for a while so I thought maybe I had FINALLY found a decent CB product. I was wrong.

    I'm taking down ALL of my Clickbank links this month and just promoting my stuff from now on. Lesson learned. Again.
    Hey Rich,

    So sorry to hear that. I know it sucks when it happens.

    I really think that you should put all your efforts now in promoting your products.
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    • Profile picture of the author dcristo
      Originally Posted by talfighel View Post

      Hey Rich,

      So sorry to hear that. I know it sucks when it happens.

      I really think that you should put all your efforts now in promoting your products.
      No, the problem is the niche, not the aff network.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
      Originally Posted by talfighel View Post

      Hey Rich,

      So sorry to hear that. I know it sucks when it happens.

      I really think that you should put all your efforts now in promoting your products.
      This is what I'm going to do.

      I added Clickbank a while back to diversify a bit. I love the weekly paychecks but at this rate I'm going to end up owing Clickbank money.
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  • Profile picture of the author jezbiz
    what are good affiliate network for digital products aside from clickbank?
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Meunier
      Originally Posted by jezbiz View Post

      what are good affiliate network for digital products aside from clickbank?
      Have you tried payspree ?

      I like it as it is instant commissions..
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    • Profile picture of the author Christine2011
      Originally Posted by jezbiz View Post

      what are good affiliate network for digital products aside from clickbank?
      You can try Clickbooth
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Meunier
    For sometime now all I see is $47 products that promise you a software that you can just click a button and $90K per month.. starting in 30 days.. they all cost $47 and they all promise the same thing.. I think they all stink, thats why there is probably more and more refunds..
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Colin Meunier View Post

      For sometime now all I see is $47 products that promise you a software that you can just click a button and $90K per month.. starting in 30 days.. they all cost $47 and they all promise the same thing.. I think they all stink, thats why there is probably more and more refunds..
      I agree ... this is just a niche I'm barely involved in, myself (apart from one specific and outstandingly good product written by a friend, designed for complete beginners who are unlikely already to be affiliates).

      There's a huge payment problem in this market, because many of the customers at whom those products are aimed are themselves already ClickBank affiliates, and one has to ask oneself why they'd buy those products through one's affiliate-link rather than simply through their own (since ClickBank allows that and doesn't make a fuss about it). Generating the customer is one thing; being paid the commission on the resulting sale is a whole different story.

      Fortunately there are 500 other niches and a total of 14,000+ live products on ClickBank at the moment, so that nonsense is all easily avoidable.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by Colin Meunier View Post

      For sometime now all I see is $47 products that promise you a software that you can just click a button and $90K per month.. starting in 30 days.. they all cost $47 and they all promise the same thing.. I think they all stink, thats why there is probably more and more refunds..
      Exactly Colin and my whole point.

      The fact is outside of the make money online niche is where I sell and I get very few refunds, which is what others have said.

      I sell a lot of things on CB but wouldn't touch any in the make money online niche for love of money. It amazes me any marketers do, the competition is rife and the products are s***. On the other hand I have very little competiton and the products are genuinely well thought out, useful to customers and exactly what they want, hence very few refunds.

      The problem isn't CB, it's the niche.

      Originally Posted by interspire View Post

      Try promoting 2Checkout products!!! There refund rate is extremely low compared to clickbank. Everything on clickbank is pretty much a scam!
      Sorry but that is total BS.

      As I've said, forget MMO, Forex, get your poxy ex back and all that crap. There are thousands of products there so far away from those niches you probably don't know what they are. The good thing is you haven't even thought of looking there and leave all the easy pickings for me.

      Cheers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Cleaning up CB may not help much in the refunds. The problem is buyers in the IM niche as much as the products. When people know they can get products for free (refunds) - IM is definitely the niche where they will do it.

      Until CB gets serious about banning serial refunders or makes refunds a bit harder to obtain - I don't promote MMO products on CB. How hard would it be for CB to limit the number of refunds allowed for one person? I know CB says they block serial refunders but I don't think it's done.


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  • Profile picture of the author NewbieAff
    Sorry About That, But I've Never Made A Sale Never Mind Refunds! Still Waiting For First Sale, Any Advice CHEERS!
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    • Profile picture of the author art72
      Originally Posted by NewbieAff View Post

      Sorry About That, But I've Never Made A Sale Never Mind Refunds! Still Waiting For First Sale, Any Advice CHEERS!
      Took me 4 months to make my 1st (4) sales, read, filter, read, take action, read, test, take action... and don't spend too much investing until you decide what method/niche you want to focus on.

      Not to defer attention from this thread, but Digital Bankroll - Matthew Neer's WSO ($9 per month) helped me out big time, and in truth was a major aide in me making my 1st few sales.

      http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ommission.html

      You'll get it...just don't quit!
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      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        I stopped promoting anything remotely related to Internet marketing or how to make money products on ClickBank many years ago. The refund rates are outrageous.

        It is appalling to read a couple posts blaming you, saying ClickBank does not tolerate products with high refunds, you do not know what you are doing, etc.

        The problem is (1) the market, and (2) ClickBank.

        As one other Warrior mentioned, I too have taken a product sold on ClickBank, done nothing else except switch to a different payment processor, and compared refund rates.

        It is night and day. More like comparing a black hole to a shiny gold coin.

        I've made that mistake more than once - lured by the idea of thousands of easy CB affiliates promoting my product. If I ever do that again someone needs to come over and kick me in the butt.

        My suggestions:

        - If you are going to promote certain CB products accept the high refund rate. Sell 10 and if 7 refund you still have 3 affiliate commissions. Better than nothing.

        - Get out of the make money topics on CB.

        .
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        • Profile picture of the author Shannon Herod
          Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

          I stopped promoting anything remotely related to Internet marketing or how to make money products on ClickBank many years ago. The refund rates are outrageous.

          It is appalling to read a couple posts blaming you, saying ClickBank does not tolerate products with high refunds, you do not know what you are doing, etc.

          The problem is (1) the market, and (2) ClickBank.

          As one other Warrior mentioned, I too have taken a product sold on ClickBank, done nothing else except switch to a different payment processor, and compared refund rates.

          It is night and day. More like comparing a black hole to a shiny gold coin.

          I've made that mistake more than once - lured by the idea of thousands of easy CB affiliates promoting my product. If I ever do that again someone needs to come over and kick me in the butt.

          My suggestions:

          - If you are going to promote certain CB products accept the high refund rate. Sell 10 and if 7 refund you still have 3 affiliate commissions. Better than nothing.

          - Get out of the make money topics on CB.

          .

          This is great advice...

          I have been saying this for many moons too. Never, ever, ever, ever promote anything remotely related to the im or mmo niche on ClickBank.

          Two reasons...

          1. Commission theft - well not really theft, but people you refer buying through their own link.

          2. The atrocious refund rate.

          P.S. - I am a pretty rich newbie, because I make a lot of money as an affiliate. ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    Sounds like you promoted a bad product. Not sure how the payment processor is at fault here. There are good products on CB too

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  • Profile picture of the author danlew
    About the refunds you got this has nothing to do with Clickbank itself it's only to do with their protection with buyers they have. Clickbank take care of their buyers very well, unlike Paypal or most other networks where they protect sellers more so. I agree you must be doing something wrong to get that many refunds.

    You should remember that the ones that bought, bought because they knew there was a money back guarantee anyway so they felt comfortable with buying but these are the ones you wouldn't of got otherwise. I find that overall by offering a money back guarantee, sales increase and you end up with more sales then you would of got otherwise regardless of refunds.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author affilcrazy
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      So you did OK for a bit, made some money and now you're quitting because you hit a rough spot?

      I realize you're venting and I don't blame you for it, but just giving up like that, especially if you've already proven to yourself you can make money at it, doesn't make any sense.

      What you should do is set your emotions aside and look at it objectively. Wait a few days before making any final decision. And spend some time analyzing what went wrong and if you can correct it.
      Rich,

      Your decision is currently based on raw emotion. I can totally see where you're coming from (how frustrating), but I would tend to agree with Mike's advice.

      As most in this thread have alluded to - the product may be your problem. However, you do need to look at this objectively.

      Possible problems may include:

      - A crappy product that doesn't live up to a fantastic/hyped up sales pitch (I will assume that you have purchased the product and completed your due diligence?)

      - Your own sales funnel - Is the product living up to the expectations you have personally created?

      - Customers realising that they actually have to do some work (again I will make the assumption that this is a MMO product, although I may be completely wrong)

      - Customers cheating the system and simply refunding after purchase (once again the assumption is the MMO niche)

      There is a postive, and perhaps you should focus on that, once the dust has settled. You are making sales, so you are obviously doing a great job, but you need to analyze where the process is breaking down.

      I know it's a bummer, and at this moment in time I'm sure you believe that affiliate marketing sucks, and that Clickbank is a complete waste of your precious time ... but there are numerous members in this very thread who are very succesful Clickbank affiliates.

      I'm sure you split-test your own products and sales funnels to great effect, so simply do the same with Clickbank. As many discussions on this forum go - why choose one or the other ... do both!

      Cheers
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    • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      Huh? How is being an affiliate a newbie mistake? Maybe not understanding how to select the right products to promote is, but affiliate marketing isn't a mistake at any level.
      You almost always make more money promoting your own sites. When you promote something for someone else, you lose all control of virtually everything.


      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      So you did OK for a bit, made some money and now you're quitting because you hit a rough spot?
      Another $50 in refunds today. This isn't a rough spot. This is a catastrophic failure of something somewhere. I can't even check my stats anymore because at this rate it is only a matter of time before I'm going to have a negative balance.

      It's not all bad though. This has reminded me of what I knew all along - don't be the affiliate, be the affiliate program owner.
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      • Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

        Another $50 in refunds today. This isn't a rough spot. This is a catastrophic failure of something somewhere.
        Perhaps the failure is in your product selection filter? Regardless of whether that product is yours or someone else, promoting crap equals to refunds.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
        It's not all bad though. This has reminded me of what I knew all along - don't be the affiliate, be the affiliate program owner.
        I half agree. I think it's better to do both; at least it is for yours truly. And though I feel your pain Rich (I don't use CB anymore) it seems like you're coming to this conclusion based on your experience with CB. CB is a very small part of the overall affiliate marketing world.

        Being an affiliate marketer has it's pluses and minuses, same thing with being a product owner. They both have their own distinct advantages and disadvantages. Though I will agree with you, being a product owner you have a lot more control over things.

        RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
    Yes, see if there are anymore products in the same niche and stick with it. You know that the niche is profitable and because the product gets refunds is not directly Clickbank's fault but more the vendor.

    Understand it is annoying but you have found a good niche so stick with it.

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Liam Swift
    Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

    $280 worth of refunds in 3 weeks including $100 today alone.

    Screw that.

    This what I get for promoting another person's product, however, so it is partly my fault. Being an affiliate is a newbie mistake but I was doing pretty good there for a while so I thought maybe I had FINALLY found a decent CB product. I was wrong.

    I'm taking down ALL of my Clickbank links this month and just promoting my stuff from now on. Lesson learned. Again.
    Sorry to hear that, I think most affiliates will have gone this at some stage in the past, and unfortunately alot of products on ClickBank do have high refund rates due to poor quality products or support.
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  • Profile picture of the author interspire
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by interspire View Post

      I bet over 60% of clickbank sales are refunded!
      I'm afraid all this shows is that (a) you don't know the first thing about it, and (b) you haven't even thought it through: ClickBank would be losing money if that were so. :rolleyes:

      It's true that a few specific niches (MMO, IM, Forex) tend to have higher-than-average overall refund rates, for fairly apparent reasons in each case, but refund rates typically vary hugely from affiliate to affiliate for the same product. It mostly depends on how the product's pre-sold (obviously enough).

      Products which have a really high refund-rate across large numbers of affiliates are swiftly removed from the marketplace by ClickBank for the very obvious reason that when this happens, their 8%/9% cut doesn't cover the administrative and transaction costs involved in refunding, and they're actually losing money on those products.

      A member of ClickBank's staff told me, last year, that affiliates who have a "50% refund rate" for a product are misrepresenting the product in their pre-selling and that if the product itself had a 50% refund rate (i.e. averaged out over all its affiliates), it would last no time at all in the Marketplace. I don't doubt this for a moment: they're not there to lose money.

      There's a lot of nonsense talked about this subject, all over the internet. The truth is very much more prosaic and less interesting than all the widespread claims and speculation.

      I sell nearly 500 ClickBank products per month (as an affiliate - and that's from a range of nearly 20 products I promote, now, in 8 entirely different and unrelated niches), with an overall refund rate well under 1%. In fact I honestly can't remember the last time I had a refund processed.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings.”

    Cassius wasn't referring to Clickbank in his remark to Brutus in Julius Caesar, but we might make the analogy. The fault may not lie with Clickbank, but in ourselves--how we market the products therein.

    Affiliates who promote CB Internet marketing products without obtaining a copy, reviewing it judiciously to make sure of a certain congruence between the sales page and the product, are guilty of "passing the trash" to their subscribers or visitors to their pre-sell pages.

    The products on the front page of the CB E-Marketing category have become a toxic asset to Clickbank. Refund rates are through the roof, the FTC is crawling up their hind end, and good-meaning affiliates get stuck holding the bag.

    It's the same thing that happened to investment bankers on Wall Street with the housing collapse. As long as everyone was making money, and tons of it, the regulators looked the other way as the bankers took their trash, repackaged it, disguised it, and hid it away in instruments no one could understand.

    They called their toxic assets by fancy names, bundled them and sold them to perhaps unsuspecting parties. But no matter how you disguise, bundle or rename it--trash is trash.

    The same is true with CB. By allowing the gurus to get away with false claims, fake screen shots, actors impersonating product vendors, etc., they allowed the trash to accumulate until it began to smell. The authorities smelled it and ergo the many recent changes in promotional policies coming from Clickbank.

    If refund rates are high for products you are promoting, make sure you actually examine the products and promote them giving visitors or subscribers an honest evaluation of the contents of the product. When buyers get what they expect there are few refunds. When they expect gold and get scrap iron, they take action--usually in the form of a refund request.

    I could be wrong. It's happened before, but then again... --Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Let's face it - it's also the buyers. One of the first things a newbie IMer learns is CB's refund policy and how easy it is for buyers to get stuff for free.

      Sometimes I think the refund problem is the result of a proper match of buyer and seller mentalities in the IM or MMO niche.
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    • Profile picture of the author art72
      Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post

      "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings.”

      Cassius wasn't referring to Clickbank in his remark to Brutus in Julius Caesar, but we might make the analogy. The fault may not lie with Clickbank, but in ourselves--how we market the products therein.

      Affiliates who promote CB Internet marketing products without obtaining a copy, reviewing it judiciously to make sure of a certain congruence between the sales page and the product, are guilty of "passing the trash" to their subscribers or visitors to their pre-sell pages.

      The products on the front page of the CB E-Marketing category have become a toxic asset to Clickbank. Refund rates are through the roof, the FTC is crawling up their hind end, and good-meaning affiliates get stuck holding the bag.

      It's the same thing that happened to investment bankers on Wall Street with the housing collapse. As long as everyone was making money, and tons of it, the regulators looked the other way as the bankers took their trash, repackaged it, disguised it, and hid it away in instruments no one could understand.

      They called their toxic assets by fancy names, bundled them and sold them to perhaps unsuspecting parties. But no matter how you disguise, bundle or rename it--trash is trash.

      The same is true with CB. By allowing the gurus to get away with false claims, fake screen shots, actors impersonating product vendors, etc., they allowed the trash to accumulate until it began to smell. The authorities smelled it and ergo the many recent changes in promotional policies coming from Clickbank.

      If refund rates are high for products you are promoting, make sure you actually examine the products and promote them giving visitors or subscribers an honest evaluation of the contents of the product. When buyers get what they expect there are few refunds. When they expect gold and get scrap iron, they take action--usually in the form of a refund request.

      I could be wrong. It's happened before, but then again... --Mike
      Yea...That^^^^^^^^^^^

      As a person studying this great art (affiliate marketing) I must admit having been guilty of looking at the "Top Sellers" in the CB Market E-Business niche and 'thinking' easy it was money!

      There too, I was 'ignorant' and did NOT buy the product for review - which I now realize the major handicap in trying to promote something based solely on statistical data, rather than performing my own research.

      At the end of the day, we must all stand accountable for the products we promote, and the way we package them and market them.

      There are several WSO's, CB products, and people within this forum who uphold a certain measure of integrity and ethical business practices respectful to the market, affiliates, and the internet as a whole.

      I agree with Mike and several others in this thread: we should all employ such practices in our affairs to maintain prosterity (and prosperity) for the next.

      As far as someone's comment above regarding "Gravity" in the ClickBank Market, this is exactly "How" I was deceived to think High Gravity = Quality Product.

      However, this is often the opposite, as one decent JV launch can catapult a product to the moon and display massive gravity, and still be total garbage!

      I personally use CBEngine (Free version) and recommend Brad Callen's CB Surge (*see my sig to learn more) and even then, it still requires some time and research to sort the wheat from the chaff!

      Art

      PS - Thank-You JustFelix, I never gave much thought to contacting the 'vendor' for a FREE copy to review and promote their product, great advice!
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by art72 View Post

        I never gave much thought to contacting the 'vendor' for a FREE copy to review and promote their product, great advice!
        If they help you at all, Art, there are some suggestions in this post on how one can go about doing that, to maximise the chances of being taken seriously.
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    • Profile picture of the author waltermulder
      Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post

      If refund rates are high for products you are promoting, make sure you actually examine the products and promote them giving visitors or subscribers an honest evaluation of the contents of the product. When buyers get what they expect there are few refunds. When they expect gold and get scrap iron, they take action--usually in the form of a refund request.
      I would suggest buying and reviewing a product before you recommend it to others.

      There are a lot of crap products on clickbank and sellers who are just there for the quick buck. Just don't ruin your reputation by promoting their crap.
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  • Profile picture of the author neoo28
    I am also started to get more refunds then before
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  • Profile picture of the author robchapman
    Yea, it sounds like you need to find a better product on clickbank to promote. I think the refund rate for the internet marketing products are high because a lot of them are garbage.
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    • Profile picture of the author Haruki92
      You should look at the gravity of the products before deciding promoting.A good gravity should be more than 70 or so.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
        Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

        Refund rates have nothing to do with the processor and EVERYTHING to do with the niche.

        Clickbank makes refunding easy and less confrontational. And in this niche it spells abuse.

        I have a vegan cookbook on CB with no refunds except for a few who thought they bought the physical version. They still ended up customers however just physical
        I just came across this post today... got to the bottom of the first page and saw that so few really have a grip on the basic mechanics of the business sales machine -

        Brad, you're spot on.

        Simple reasons why people refund -

        * What they bought they didn't get
        * What they expected, they didn't get
        * What was promised, they didn't get.

        With exception to the miniscule percentage of thieves out there, the ONLY reason WHY people request a refund is because whatever it was that they thought they were buying - they didn't get - the product / service didn't live up to their expectations.

        End of story.

        So for us as affiliate marketers - TEST AND TRY the damn product before you "recommend it"; make sure it's going to live up to expectations. Unless you're plugging an $40,000 watch, this shouldn't be too hard (Use your imagination for the watch).

        For those of use who are product creators / marketers - sell good quality products and don't bullsh** in the sales copy.

        Paul Barrs

        PS. Personally I love the fact that Clickbank is so quick to refund when requested... who the hell want's to irritate an already unhappy customer. Dealing with their refund request quickly is the best chance you'll ever have to salvage them for future prospects.
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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Originally Posted by Paul Barrs View Post

          So for us as affiliate marketers - TEST AND TRY the damn product before you "recommend it"; make sure it's going to live up to expectations.
          Clickbank products are easy to sell primarily because they have a 60 day money back guarantee policy. Turn this around, and use it as a prominent selling point in your presell copy and all of your email promotions. The onus is on the affiliate to determine the relevance and quality of products to promote to their customers. Jeesh. :rolleyes:
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by myob View Post

            Clickbank products are easy to sell primarily because they have a 60 day money back guarantee policy. Turn this around, and use it as a prominent selling point in your presell copy and all of your email promotions. The onus is on the affiliate to determine the relevance and quality of products to promote to their customers. Jeesh. :rolleyes:
            I agree completely with all of this. Especially "Jeesh".
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            • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
              Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey View Post

              A refund rate that high is normally synonymous with the promotion of crap.
              This is part of the reason why this is so bothersome. I try not to promote crap and a bunch of my surfers even emailed me to tell me they liked that sponsor.
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesGw
    Being an affiliate is not a newbie mistake. It's actually a great way to earn money. The mistake is promoting a bad product.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
    Another $97 in refunds today.

    These refunds are from a weight loss product.

    We were doing really, really well with it for a long time. My surfers all seemed happy with it and some even emailed me to tell me they liked it.

    Then about a month or two ago the refunds started pouring in.

    I've been affiliate marketing for about a decade. I've never, ever had this many refunds. In fact, this month alone I've had more refunds than in my entire career combined.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

      These refunds are from a weight loss product.

      We were doing really, really well with it for a long time. My surfers all seemed happy with it and some even emailed me to tell me they liked it.

      Then about a month or two ago the refunds started pouring in.
      That is strange, Rich.

      So, the obvious question is: what changed?

      Is it possible the product itself changed (have you checked)? Or something about your traffic?

      Or could there possibly have been some health-scare over something the product recommends?
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      • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        That is strange, Rich.

        So, the obvious question is: what changed?

        Is it possible the product itself changed (have you checked)? Or something about your traffic?

        Or could there possibly have been some health-scare over something the product recommends?
        It's just a diet plan, nothing crazy. The site where these are coming from is really low key and unflashy and in fact, that is why I picked it - I didn't want to promote a site that made a ton of crazy promises.

        Traffic is the same, it is all 100% organic search traffic from Google so I'm sure that isn't the problem.

        I don't know if the membership area of the site has changed, it must have I guess.

        Someone messaged me and said that dieters are by nature an unhappy bunch and perhaps once they realize that they won't lose weight by reading an ebook they demand refunds. That might be true.
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        • Profile picture of the author CheshireCat
          Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

          Someone messaged me and said that dieters are by nature an unhappy bunch and perhaps once they realize that they won't lose weight by reading an ebook they demand refunds. That might be true.
          The minute you said "diet" and "weight loss", that's what immediately came to mind.

          Keep in mind, the three busiest days in any gym or fitness club are Jan. 1st, Jan. 2nd, and Jan. 3rd.

          There's a reason for that.

          Incidentally, when I worked at GNC, I was a really big proponent of Body for Life. It was the only thing I had ever seen thus far that was guaranteed to work, assuming you followed it. a) 6 small, nutritious meals a day. b) 2 to 3 hours a week in the gym, total. c) You get to eat anything that you wanted on your free day. d) The entire meal plan fit on one page, in one three column table . . . no counting calories, or grams of fat, or anything. All of that, and you could totally transform your physique in 12 weeks.

          Well, even tho we didn't sell it, I recommended it to everyone who came in asking about weight-loss. (I kept trying to get the franchise owner to order copies to sell - which he never got around to doing - but I settled for recommending it and then back-ending all the nutrition shakes and nutrition bars that helped with the 6 small meals part.)

          Well, I had a lot of takers . . . people interested in something that clearly produced results. But, I also had a lot of tire-kickers come in who would have absolutely none of it. They would look at the before and after pics and say they were fake (they clearly weren't), and say that there just had to be some sort of magic pill that would make all the weight vanish (there clearly wasn't). I even got to the point where I could gauge someone's commitment based on their reaction to the book, regardless of whether or not BFL was the particularly right solution for them. Just their reaction alone spoke volumes about their commitment and mindset.

          The problem with Weight Loss is that while it is obviously a hot and hungry niche with lots of earning potential, it's hard to nail down a proper litmus test to know if the type of buyers you're targeting really are committed to weight loss and body transformation, or if they are hoping some "magic pill" is going to do it.

          Funnily enough, I actually now have such a "pill" (or as close to it as one can reasonably get), but it still requires going to the gym at least once a week for half an hour, and following a particular nutrition plan.

          Many people don't want to do even that much.

          Chesh

          PS - Btw, the "magic pill" isn't Sensa, even tho that does look interesting.

          Also, explain what you mean by "membership site". Are you referring to a download page, sometimes referred to as a "membership site", or was this an actual monthly recurring product?
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          • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
            Originally Posted by CheshireCat View Post

            Also, explain what you mean by "membership site". Are you referring to a download page, sometimes referred to as a "membership site", or was this an actual monthly recurring product?
            It's a recurring product. I almost always promote products with rebills. People aren't just refunding the rebills, they are refunding everything. I guess as long as you are refunding part of it, why not refund it all?
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            • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
              Rich,

              You've partially answered your own frustrations in the bolded phrases as to what might be the partial cause.

              Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

              It's just a diet plan, nothing crazy. The site where these are coming from is really low key and unflashy and in fact, that is why I picked it - I didn't want to promote a site that made a ton of crazy promises.

              Traffic is the same, it is all 100% organic search traffic from Google so I'm sure that isn't the problem.

              I don't know if the membership area of the site has changed, it must have I guess.

              Someone messaged me and said that dieters are by nature an unhappy bunch and perhaps once they realize that they won't lose weight by reading an ebook they demand refunds. That might be true.
              Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

              Oh, no, don't worry, no apology needed for anything. I should have been more clear to begin with.

              As luck would have it I do have a list but it isn't that big at only 1600 after iContact deleted all of my Yahoo users. sigh. Anyway, I'm not a very good email marketer but I'm working on it.

              Thanks for the input everyone.
              If your refund rates have gone up consistently compared to what they have been with enough volume to be statistically signficant, then something has probably changed. However, this could also be a statistical anomaly and you won't know for sure unless you wait it ou. I'm with Big Mike, I would wait a few days before pulling out. Maybe with some due diligence you'll be able to isolate the cause and fix it.

              Case in point: in one particular niche I did not have any sales for 9 straight days, which was really odd considering I was making 6 to 10 sales per day. I checked with CB support, double checked my links, everything. And with some test purchases, everything checked out. On the tenth day I made 4 sales. These ups and downs can and do happen, so maybe this is also a possibility?

              As far as what may have changed: it could have also been the product itself, the sales copy, another aspect of the marketing funnel, or maybe, just maybe people are asking for refunds because they realize Halloween, Octoberfest, Lobster Festivals, Thanksgiving, and other holidays / food festivals are coming up and know they are going to put on more weight anyway and are going to wait until after New Years (again).

              RoD
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            • Profile picture of the author ShayB
              Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

              It's a recurring product. I almost always promote products with rebills. People aren't just refunding the rebills, they are refunding everything. I guess as long as you are refunding part of it, why not refund it all?
              Weird question, but...if this is a new problem, could it be a CB glitch or new policy?

              Maybe they're trying to refund the rebills and CB is kicking out a total refund?

              Just a possibility.
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              • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
                Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

                Maybe they're trying to refund the rebills and CB is kicking out a total refund?

                Just a possibility.
                That might be, I don't know. Now that I think about it you could be right.
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                • Profile picture of the author ShayB
                  Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

                  That might be, I don't know. Now that I think about it you could be right.
                  I just took a look at CB.

                  If someone returns a recurring billing product, then they get the return and the billing is cancelled for future payments.

                  If they only cancel, then no return for the product is generated. They simply don't get billed again.

                  A few possibilities (again, I only suggest these because you say this is a new issue) -

                  Is it possible the wording on the refund policy has changed? Or it may be a glitch? Maybe people mean to cancel but instead mistakenly refund?

                  (The other suggestions given here in the thread are possibilities, too. I'm just trying to give more ideas.)
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            • Profile picture of the author CheshireCat
              Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

              It's a recurring product. I almost always promote products with rebills. People aren't just refunding the rebills, they are refunding everything. I guess as long as you are refunding part of it, why not refund it all?
              What's the monthly rebill amount?

              Chesh
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              • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
                Originally Posted by CheshireCat View Post

                What's the monthly rebill amount?

                Chesh
                $30 or so.
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                • Profile picture of the author CheshireCat
                  Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

                  $30 or so.
                  Honestly, that says it all right there. Most people can buy two diet books a month for less than $30 (and often do).

                  Heck, most people can join a gym for less than $30 a month. In fact, try $13 a month for the local Natatorium, which includes an Olympic pool; water park; free weights; weight machines; jacuzzi; more ellipticals, bikes, and treadmills than you can shake a stick at; and a rock-climbing wall to boot.

                  So, that said, the product had better be outstanding to keep people shelling that much money out every month.

                  Incidentally, what exactly do you get for your $30 a month?

                  Chesh
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    • Profile picture of the author IM Lover
      Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

      Another $97 in refunds today.

      These refunds are from a weight loss product.

      We were doing really, really well with it for a long time. My surfers all seemed happy with it and some even emailed me to tell me they liked it.

      Then about a month or two ago the refunds started pouring in.

      I've been affiliate marketing for about a decade. I've never, ever had this many refunds. In fact, this month alone I've had more refunds than in my entire career combined.
      Hi Rich

      I am really sorry to hear about your loss of sales with these refunds, I would suggest to stick with Click Back because lets face it they are pretty good, I would say it's just one of those annoying things to be honest. Just forget about it and move on to the next offer buddy.

      If it starts happening again then perhaps think about leaving all together, however it's not worth letting it get you down to much, for now just keep your chin up and do what your best at by taking advantage of the next big diet offer.


      Lee
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    • Profile picture of the author albag999
      Gutted for you mate. Hope it all works out for ya.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
      Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

      Another $97 in refunds today.

      These refunds are from a weight loss product.

      We were doing really, really well with it for a long time. My surfers all seemed happy with it and some even emailed me to tell me they liked it.

      Then about a month or two ago the refunds started pouring in.

      I've been affiliate marketing for about a decade. I've never, ever had this many refunds. In fact, this month alone I've had more refunds than in my entire career combined.
      It is possible that they found the same book pirated by someone else for free or for waay less, and are getting their money back because they can get it free else where..............or for less.......... maybe???

      Either way, that sucks, especially if you have spent the money in the account. It would be a good thing to have an account and in that account only spend money from sales that have gone past the 60 days, that way no harm can be to you, but dissapointment on the return.

      Either way, you still may make money, money you may not have made otherwise. The best way to look at it, is it's not your money until the 60 days have gone by......... that makes it less of a dissapointment if someone returns and ask for a refund.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jamesgregory
      "The problem is the niche"
      "The problem is the niche"
      "The problem is the niche"

      People: The REAL problem is the product. Don't promote crap and you won't get high refunds. Especially on CB.

      Sure, some niches are more prone to refunds than others. This is why I personally "Take" each course I promote before promoting it to my beloved list(s). Whether it's yours or someone else's, don't promote crap products and you won't have a high return rate.
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    • Profile picture of the author wilsonljx
      I think we should really try out the product first before promoting for other people.

      This will allow people to believe that the product really helps them.
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    • Profile picture of the author capitalalchemy
      I agree - stay away from most of the MMO and forex products. I promote one item, and like clockwork EVERY sale has been refunded. I've not made a single penny from it.

      The gold is in the lesser known products some of the time. Only ever had a handful of refunds with the lower gravity products. Some of them are actually really good and not fully of hype and garbage.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cash37
      Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

      Another $97 in refunds today.

      These refunds are from a weight loss product.

      We were doing really, really well with it for a long time. My surfers all seemed happy with it and some even emailed me to tell me they liked it.

      Then about a month or two ago the refunds started pouring in.

      I've been affiliate marketing for about a decade. I've never, ever had this many refunds. In fact, this month alone I've had more refunds than in my entire career combined.
      Had the same issue with a popular diet product on there. Had to give it up after I broke even.
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    • Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post


      These refunds are from a weight loss product.
      e-z, just add to your TOS: No refunds for fatties
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      • Profile picture of the author saxatwork
        Originally Posted by Your Brand Ebooks View Post

        e-z, just add to your TOS: No refunds for fatties
        Lol... love that ... or "Post your Before and After image if you want a refund"... at least we know that they tried...
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  • Profile picture of the author TheKeys
    I've never had that high of refunds. Try rewording or selling a different product.
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  • Profile picture of the author lowkey786
    sorry to hear man, right now i don't do much Clickbank, I just focus on high ticket stuff which is worth my time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Can you get into that membership area to see if and how it's changed?

      Have you built a list of these people as well that you could speak to and ask what they like and don't like and what they think they need? There may be something you could switch over to if this one has changed, which it sounds like it has. Sorry if I'm not helping, I'm probably just teaching you to suck eggs here. Sorry also for some of the other responses here assuming you're promoting crap when you're clearly not.

      I wouldn't normally go for weight loss but you're experienced enough to do this and you've clearly picked a good product, sorry to hear this has happened and apologies for assuming this was make money on line or one of those type of things in my earlier posts.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        Can you get into that membership area to see if and how it's changed?

        Have you built a list of these people as well that you could speak to and ask what they like and don't like and what they think they need? There may be something you could switch over to if this one has changed, which it sounds like it has. Sorry if I'm not helping, I'm probably just teaching you to suck eggs here. Sorry also for some of the other responses here assuming you're promoting crap when you're clearly not.

        I wouldn't normally go for weight loss but you're experienced enough to do this and you've clearly picked a good product, sorry to hear this has happened and apologies for assuming this was make money on line or one of those type of things in my earlier posts.
        Oh, no, don't worry, no apology needed for anything. I should have been more clear to begin with.

        As luck would have it I do have a list but it isn't that big at only 1600 after iContact deleted all of my Yahoo users. sigh. Anyway, I'm not a very good email marketer but I'm working on it.

        Thanks for the input everyone.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

          As luck would have it I do have a list but it isn't that big at only 1600 after iContact deleted all of my Yahoo users. sigh. Anyway, I'm not a very good email marketer but I'm working on it.
          Nothing wrong with a list of 1600 especially if they've all bought it. If not you could still get a lot of very valuable information.

          I'm off to bed in a moment but I'll PM you my Skype address, if you want to chat I'll happily knock up a simple email you can send to them, you may well be surprised with the response you get and better still find a solution of some sorts. You don't have to of course and there's nothing in for me but I'll PM it all the same.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert T Jillie
    Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

    $280 worth of refunds in 3 weeks including $100 today alone.

    Screw that.

    This what I get for promoting another person's product, however, so it is partly my fault. Being an affiliate is a newbie mistake but I was doing pretty good there for a while so I thought maybe I had FINALLY found a decent CB product. I was wrong.

    I'm taking down ALL of my Clickbank links this month and just promoting my stuff from now on. Lesson learned. Again.
    Hey Rich,

    Sorry that you are having problems with your refund rates.

    The problem is not being an affiliate promoting someone else's product. The problem is promoting lousy and over hyped products.

    I promote a lot of Clickbank products in a lot of niches and with the exception of MMO and IM niches I have an average refund rate of around 1%.

    In the MMO and IM niches I average around 4% but I make it a point to actually purchase or obtain a review copy of every single product I promote on CB simply because I don’t want to end up promoting a looser to a prospective life long customer.
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  • Profile picture of the author pheonix44
    You should try promoting physical products, the refund rates are really low. The commissions are less, but the conversions are very high if you know how to do it. Refund problems are virtually non existent.
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Hatfield
    My Clickbank refunds are low. Of course, I don't sell make money online stuff.

    However, I used to promote one of those beat making software's and the refund rate was like 50 percent. It converting to sales nice but the high refund rate bothered me every time I logged into the account, so I decided to just stop selling it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    If you have to sell the product for them AND handle customer service, what good are they? I've yet to see a Clickbank product that converts well enough off paid traffic to make a profit.
    My traffic is all free but I was astounded at how well my surfers liked it. It was a good run I guess.
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  • Profile picture of the author JustFelix
    Did you review their product before promoting it? You could of ask for a free copy and if they said no then you simply don't promote their product.
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  • Profile picture of the author yesdoab
    sorry to hear. Better luck outside of clickbank.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill_Z
    That's just weird. If I were you, I would contact the vendor and see what's up. If you were doing well with this product and then suddenly everything changed, perhaps something happened with the product. If it's recurring and there is membership content, perhaps it died out for one reason or another. Maybe the owner is sick or something, and they themselves are responsible for membership interaction?
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  • Profile picture of the author BenSalez
    I am a vendor with some fairly successful clickbank products that all have a refund rate between 1-3%.

    Guess why? They are outside of the make money online push button 5 million dollars overnight niche.

    You can succeed as a CB affiliate... but my personal advice is to stay away from MMO, forex etc as they historically yield refund rates between 35-65%!

    Ben

    Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

    $280 worth of refunds in 3 weeks including $100 today alone.

    Screw that.

    This what I get for promoting another person's product, however, so it is partly my fault. Being an affiliate is a newbie mistake but I was doing pretty good there for a while so I thought maybe I had FINALLY found a decent CB product. I was wrong.

    I'm taking down ALL of my Clickbank links this month and just promoting my stuff from now on. Lesson learned. Again.
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  • Profile picture of the author ShawnSells
    I think it's becoming so well known amongst buyers on Clickbank that refunds are easy and fast, that it encourages it. In certain niches, it's especially bad.
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  • Profile picture of the author Christian Chan
    Avoid anything that has to do with make money. These niches are crap (IM, forex, trading, etc).
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Sounds like something hugely wrong has gone on with that product.

    Can you just make some tweaks to your site and start promoting a different product?

    That's the freedom you have as an affiliate, you get to choose who you will promote.

    As others have said, probably the best products to be affiliates for are physical products. Much lower refund rates.

    Good luck but hope you get it figured out.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    There are a ton (no pun intended) of weight-loss vendors on clickbank. Maybe you could try split testing a few other vendors to see if you can come up w/ a lower refund rate. edit: redicelander beat me to it...

    I have a rebill product that I run through clickbank, and my refunds are less than 1%. But I have to add new stuff almost weekly to keep people paying. Maybe the vendor is getting lazy and not keeping the site up. - You should ask the vendor for a free membership.
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    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      Maybe the vendor is getting lazy and not keeping the site up. - You should ask the vendor for a free membership.
      I think that could very likely be the problem.

      Perhaps the vendor went on an around the world cruise or something with all this clickbank earnings, and stopped updating his membership.

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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Whether you promote someone elses products or your own wont stop refunds.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    By the way, all it takes is some knucklehead on a weight loss forum to say "Hey, I got my money back and got the product for free, all you need to do is...."

    Then the rest will probably follow like sheep.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
      Originally Posted by Christian Chan View Post

      Three things you can do:
      - Have your own merchant account
      - Have your own merchant account
      - Have your own merchant account
      That looks like one dude
      That looks like one dude
      That looks like one dude
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      • Profile picture of the author CheshireCat
        Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

        That looks like one dude
        That looks like one dude
        That looks like one dude
        That's a riff on a famous quote related to real estate. "The three most important things in real estate are: location, location, and location."

        Translation: don't even think about any other aspects of it until you totally nail down that first part.

        Chesh
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  • Profile picture of the author AngryBird141
    Do some research on the product before deciding on selling it. There are a lot of user reviews out there. Check the forums. You'll find some posts about the product if you know where/how to find it. After reading the reviews/posts and it made you interested in buying the product yourself, then I think it would be a good product to sell.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bergryen
    Sorry to hear that. Ok you learned lesson that is important. I also stay away from MMO.What type of products are you promoting?
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    The problem with Clickbank and indeed any info product is the refunds request, as well as the multiple payment methods before you get paid, I agree that promoting your own product you at least have more of a choice
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  • Profile picture of the author deaner10
    So much for me thinking Clickbank was king...what to use or do instead?
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  • Profile picture of the author Praveen Kumar
    Hey Guys,'

    I think you have viewed this thread at the right time because i have story to tell yep, a disappointed story in CB Marketing. 1 Year ago (When i was only at age- 15 ) every newbie affiliate like me was bought lot of products from GURUS and no way i am really disappointed about the result that i am got because i am almost spend over $8000 to most of IM Products and i have bought every new IM Product in CB and finally i am got click on my mind that was "Affiliate Marketing is almost like a recycle system because it's all about promoting BIG Products to Newbies and the newbies will finally turn into affiliates and they promote products to new newbies" so , don't buy any CRAP or GURU Product from CB if you not convenience about the product.


    wish you all the best

    Praveen Kumar P.P
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    • Profile picture of the author art72
      Originally Posted by ipraveen View Post

      Hey Guys,'

      I think you have viewed this thread at the right time because i have story to tell yep, a disappointed story in CB Marketing. 1 Year ago (When i was only at age- 15 ) every newbie affiliate like me was bought lot of products from GURUS and no way i am really disappointed about the result that i am got because i am almost spend over $8000 to most of IM Products and i have bought every new IM Product in CB and finally i am got click on my mind that was "Affiliate Marketing is almost like a recycle system because it's all about promoting BIG Products to Newbies and the newbies will finally turn into affiliates and they promote products to new newbies" so , don't buy any CRAP or GURU Product from CB if you not convenience about the product.


      wish you all the best

      Praveen Kumar P.P
      WOW....$8,000???

      While your grammer is a bit tough to get through, I strongly suggest you perform market and product research before you buy anything EVER again.

      Thread #74 *See his signature Link : "Are You GURU Bait", not only is it funny...it's real, and it's only like $10! Should you prefer to spend $100 or so, get the book in Alexa's sig link!

      Now, I understand you are still young yet, and mean NO Insult here, but ClickBank is NOT the problem here. If you didn't learn anything after investing $8000, perhaps you need to explore with some sense of restraint!

      A "Buyer's Mindset" is the enemy!

      A "Seller's Objective" is to understand the psychology behind people's buying impulses, emotions, needs, desires...etc

      Thus, recognize every product you bought, and ask yourself; "What compelled me to 'BUY' this?

      Then, dissect that process, an learn from your $8,000 worth of mistakes?

      Little might you see it now, but those mistakes reveal a great deal "if" and when you stop blaming others, and evaluate the "Bigger Picture"

      Naturally, as my prior posts all mention, I believe in ethical practices, so I feel for your financial losses.

      Look beyond the money, and find the correlation between what "compels you" and find a niche (preferably an ethical one) whereby, you can use your experience/passion to serve the greater good of another.

      I don't give a rat's @ss if you promote a CB product or a Microsoft download...know your audience, and be the solution to their problems or desires, and YOU will SUCCEED!

      For the record, I have yet to spend 1/2 of what you've invested, and have 100 domains, a PLR store, over 6,000 MRR products, a ton of training, and approximately 150 GB's of files jammed packed with real assets and golden nuggets.

      With that said, I haven't even really begun my marketing, as I have spent the majority of the last 6 months studying markets, product research, and learning the basics (DNS, FTP, Web Editing, HTML, etc..) -

      The point being my focus is NOT the Money. It's the education to create long-term success. This seems to be an 'uncommon approach' as many suffer the misconception there is a "Magic Button" or some "Easy Money" to be had online!

      Sure, there's some great automated software and leveraging tools (ClickBank being one of them), but none-the-less RESEARCH reigns, and that requires Time, Effort, and WORK!

      *Sorry for the rant...but $8,000 spent just on CB GURU products spawned my inner-beast!

      Regarding the "Stop Being Fat" niche... I am 145#'s soaking wet...hell, I need weight-gaining sites...LOL

      All the Best,

      Art
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  • Profile picture of the author kaper7
    It is very imporant that before promoting a product, you do your own due deligence. This means you research the products itself and the maker of the product.

    If all checks out fine, you then either buy the product or ask for a review copy for the purpose of being an affiliate. Finally you promote the product.

    If you check these things, you will promote quality product from reputable makers and have a lower refund rate.
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  • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
    I don't know, Rich. I think it's not a problem with CB it's a problem with the products you chose to promote.

    Don't get me wrong... CB isn't perfect but as someone else mentioned, they're in the process of cleaning things up. FTC is even involved according to my sources.

    This is a good thing for you... a good thing for all of us.

    But... even when it's totally clean you have to be very discerning about the products you promote. Let's say they all work... let's say every CB offer lives up to the hype...

    It doesn't mean those are products your list will remain "stuck" to.

    Think like your market... Better yet, talk to them. Find out what turned them on in the copy and how they were turned off once they got it.

    These are the questions that will ultimately make you money.

    Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

    $280 worth of refunds in 3 weeks including $100 today alone.

    Screw that.

    This what I get for promoting another person's product, however, so it is partly my fault. Being an affiliate is a newbie mistake but I was doing pretty good there for a while so I thought maybe I had FINALLY found a decent CB product. I was wrong.

    I'm taking down ALL of my Clickbank links this month and just promoting my stuff from now on. Lesson learned. Again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nelson Felix
    Banned
    excuse me, but what is MMO?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by 92 View Post

      excuse me, but what is MMO?
      "Make Money Online" (as in "advice about how to ...").
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    • Profile picture of the author Suellen Reitz
      Originally Posted by 92 View Post

      excuse me, but what is MMO?
      Make Money on Line.

      This ClickBank thread has really stirred up the hornets nest! I had no idea that the MMO niche was so bad. Interestingly enough... it is one of the hottest niches going as well.

      Yes people are hurting in today's world with the economy at the lowest it's been in decades. My brother who has a PHD in chemistry has been unable to find a job for 2 years and 3 months now.... He's barely making ends meet with a $10 an hour furniture delivery job.

      So people are looking for easy answers. The "magic button" get rich overnight miracle. Unfortunately... nothing is magic.. it takes work... and those looking for the easy money usually aren't willing to put forth the effort. Too bad the marketers are selling false hope and hype in the sales copy.

      Another problem is since people are struggling... there are a few and quite possibly more than I recognize, who buy products through Clickbank with the intention of downloading the material and immediately getting a full refund. Since I prefer to think well of people until proven otherwise, I would like to think this is definately the minority...

      And the refund policy at Clickbank, though it can backfire, as it obviously has for you guys... is what gives people the peace of mind to try the product in the first place! Those of you who use other sources than Clickbank... that don't have that "golden guarantee"... are your conversions as good?

      I am still pretty new in this game... and I've never even considered any other source than Clickbank because of the trust factor and popularity. Maybe I should open my eyes to what's available elsewhere.... time will tell.

      Suellen
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  • Profile picture of the author poojadreams
    Choose a perfect CB while selecting. Read as many as reviews you can so that you can get great info we can say it has real info. Even some reviews are created by owners so be careful while taking decision.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adnan Firdous
    That's so irritating! Well there are a lot of products on Avangate, Plimus, Market Health, Moreniche. Why don't you try those?
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    • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
      Never heard of Moreniche. Anyone know anything about them?
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      • Profile picture of the author art72
        Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

        Never heard of Moreniche. Anyone know anything about them?
        They sell mainly herbal, health, and those grow your willy pills. I forget the name of their sister site, but it's something... _____Niche as well. I never made money with them, as I really wasn't looking for health products (or growth pills ) when I started exploring different markets.

        SellHealth is a another one, they have simialr products to promote...still trying to figure out how "Women's Extenze" works (Kinda scary when you think about it!)

        EDIT: WorldNiche is their other site.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nithiyaah
    Sorry to hear that Rich. But I won't totally agree with you that CB is full of junk and there is no more hope for affiliates. I do promote CB products and the refund rate are very low because I usually promote those other than MMO. I do promote MMO products but it is very rare. So try to reconsider your decision and look out for products in other niches before you promote them. Hope this helps you
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  • Profile picture of the author Tracey_Meagher
    Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

    $280 worth of refunds in 3 weeks including $100 today alone.

    Screw that.

    I'm taking down ALL of my Clickbank links this month and just promoting my stuff from now on. Lesson learned. Again.
    Sometimes what seems like a kick in the teeth can really be a kick in the ass in the right direction! At least you can be confident in the quality of your own products!
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    • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
      Originally Posted by Tracey_Meagher View Post

      Sometimes what seems like a kick in the teeth can really be a kick in the ass in the right direction! At least you can be confident in the quality of your own products!
      My thoughts exactly but it was kind of nice to have another income stream for a while there.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimmyB
    Promoting your own products well definitely ensure that you are promoting products that you can truly vouch for. Another great rule is to only promote products that you have used and are familiar with yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jaymark
    That's one of the weaknesses of promoting and selling a digital product. Refunds are very easy to make and the person still ends up with the information (unless it is a monthly subscription service). This type of thing can promote abuses where the person orders the product and then demands a refund. So he gets use of the information for nothing. It's pretty lousy. I believe if a particular customer requests too many refunds, he may get blocked out but I'm not sure of that. It would actually be nice if there were some way to lock the pdf with a password which became invalid if a refund were issued. It would at least keep people from being able to use the product for free. Anyone know how to do this? We could start a business selling this capabilitiy to ebook publishers.
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  • Profile picture of the author mobread
    I agree I think it was the niche and sure would love to hear from OP as to what niche he was promoting, guessing something to do with MMO though. I do think clickbank has a lot of problems and I think their 60 money back guarantee is way too long. Personally I think it should be 30 days.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
      Originally Posted by mobread View Post

      I agree I think it was the niche and sure would love to hear from OP as to what niche he was promoting, guessing something to do with MMO though. I do think clickbank has a lot of problems and I think their 60 money back guarantee is way too long. Personally I think it should be 30 days.
      It was a weight loss product. I don't really promote MMO stuff.

      I think 30 days is plenty long enough too.
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      • Profile picture of the author dimpenvlth
        I agree with Glinda, it is better to know the products very well.
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      • Profile picture of the author Vikram73
        Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

        It was a weight loss product. I don't really promote MMO stuff.

        I think 30 days is plenty long enough too.
        Does the product disclose it's digital? Or did they recently stop disclosing that?

        That's another sore spot it seems (aside from MMO, Forex which are notorious for high refund rates).

        People who buy certain popular dieting programs assume they are buying a real physical product and are waiting for the books and dvd's to show up in the mail.

        Other products do a good job of disclosing that's a download.

        I make it a point to disclose that it's a pdf, video etc. in my review.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
    By the way thanks for the input everyone.
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  • Profile picture of the author Izzy9
    I agree with Kaper. You can ask for reviews before promoting a product so that you are at least assured that your hard work can be rewarded.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Walker
    Sorry to hear that, but hey why don't you make up your own product? just about 100 page of pure content wouldn't be that hard to make you know
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    • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
      Originally Posted by Nick Walker View Post

      Sorry to hear that, but hey why don't you make up your own product? just about 100 page of pure content wouldn't be that hard to make you know
      I don't really like the weight loss niche and I have no desire to get in any deeper than I am now.
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  • Profile picture of the author gabwilliams
    Ive had nothing but trouble with Clickbank. Buyers hold you personally responsible for other peoples poor work - nightmare.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tmill
    I have never had good luck with clickbank. Traffic never purchases and there are refunds
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  • Profile picture of the author Mickyf
    Hi Rich
    First off well done for getting sales on clickbank " some people never do"
    Clickbank have changed things in favour of the buyer which to me is a good thing and as long as the product is good the refund rates should be pretty low. Rich I stopped promoting stuff that I have not tried out myself. I will sometimes promote something that has been recommenended to me by a trusted friend who has used the product as there are so many products out there that dont do what it says on the tin.
    lots of time I ask the vendor for a review or just buy a copy. If the product is something I feel is beneficial to my subscribers I will promote it. " I never want to promote crap products to my list your list is your most valuable asset". Rich just wandering have you gone through the buying processs yourself? to see if anything triggers alarm bells
    cheers Mick
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  • Profile picture of the author toddbakker
    I have been doing affiliate marketing for about a year and a half and personally, I have never had a refund. Do yourself a favor and don't give up on Clickbank, it obviously worked out well for you in the past few years. Just pinpoint where things went wrong and tweak it. I am sure it will get better... Sorry you are having issues though, that's frustrating..
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  • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
    Now my account is at -$66 so no CB money for me next week. I had $80 in sales today but somehow I doubt I'll ever see it.
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  • Profile picture of the author irishsolar
    Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

    $280 worth of refunds in 3 weeks including $100 today alone.

    Screw that.

    This what I get for promoting another person's product, however, so it is partly my fault. Being an affiliate is a newbie mistake but I was doing pretty good there for a while so I thought maybe I had FINALLY found a decent CB product. I was wrong.

    I'm taking down ALL of my Clickbank links this month and just promoting my stuff from now on. Lesson learned. Again.
    I really don't think being an affiliate is a newbie mistake at all. In fact many of the best online marketers have made multiple millions as affiliate marketers, take Mark Ling from Affilorama as a prime example. The guy makes at least a million dollars per year just from his affiliate promotions! I don't do too bad either .

    The problem lies with the vendor and Clickbank not the affiliate marketing business model. I promote Clickbank products and physical products as an affiliate and find the ease with which Clickbank give refunds is one reason for the high refund rate (and the fact that there is a ton of garbage on Clickbank that really needs removed from the Marketplace ).

    Refunding is high even on good Clickbank promotions because it is all too easy to get your money back AND keep the product! Best to promote physical products if your stick rate is low but don't throw out the baby with the water!

    Affiliate marketing works and it works well when you know how to work it :p.
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  • Profile picture of the author glinda2011
    Be very careful in choosing the right product to promote..
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  • Profile picture of the author serekesh
    hi..what type of products are you promoting?
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  • Profile picture of the author SoundsGood
    Are there any decent MMO products to promote?

    I mean some of them have to be good, right? But which ones???
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by SoundsGood View Post

      Are there any decent MMO products to promote?
      I neither know nor care, because however good they were, I wouldn't be willing to promote them anyway. Generating the customer who buys and being paid on the resulting sale are two distinctly different matters: many of the customers at whom those products are targeted are themselves already ClickBank affiliates, so why would they buy them through my hoplinks rather than through their own?!

      If they interest anyone, my own ClickBank product selection criteria - which appear to have done well for me - are listed here.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    many of the customers at whom they're targeted are themselves already ClickBank affiliates, so why would they buy them through my hoplinks rather than through their own?!
    I sometimes really HATE that niche, of course you are right - i dont know how many do this. Then there is the number of refunders (the clickbank veterans who know how easy it is to get refunds) PLUS the ridiculous competition with their pseudo review sites etc...and the ugly semi-scam sales pages of the known "gurus".
    Seriously, it just annoys the heck out of me.
    We all KNOW *who* is actually making the money with those "make money" products...
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    • Profile picture of the author SoundsGood
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      We all KNOW *who* is actually making the money with those "make money" products...
      Not me. Who? :confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author budhaya
    $280 worth of refunds in 3 weeks is really nothing.
    more important is how many have not refunded. what is the refund percentage?
    most weight loss products do not really work anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
    I suspect that the new revised, terms and conditions, are not accidental, while there is a long way to go with clickbank it does appear that they are working on improving the marketplace, I would say this has everything to do with the new "Revised" FTC, guides,

    There are multiple aspects to this issue and clickbank is not the only one that will be effected, right now, there are "certain" online agencies, sales companies, including Internet Marketing companies that are being monitored, if you read the guides, (and understand them) you know that there was a grace period, between the revised guides, and the beginning of what will likely be some rather public hangings.

    Clickbank understands this, and they are taking some actions, (small for now) but if you are in the business of selling product online, you should do yourself a huge favor and read the guides, not just the revised guides but all the guides, it will "open" your eyes, to an entire world that you did not even know existed.

    There are some serious issues, however the guides do not specifically define what is deception and what is not deception, which leaves a lot open to interpretation, however there are some meaningful publications that you would do well to read.

    I did, and I am still learning new things about what this means for the Internet Marketer, (roughly I have spent about 14 hours studying) these guides reading some of them over and over so that I was sure I understood what they were saying, some of it is intentionally verbose, (go figure)

    There are methods of getting a sales page into compliance, there are methods of getting a product into compliance, that is what they want compliance, that is what it is all about, if you have not read these guides you should seriously do yourself a favor and read them, if you do not understand them read it again or ask an attorney to help you, best money you will ever spend if you ever want to seriously pursue a career online.

    If you plan upfront to be in compliance you will not have as many problems, and I suspect that you will not have as many refunds either, but again I have no proof of that, LOL,

    (disclaimer) (which by the way, the new FTC guides, abolish)

    yes, that is correct disclaimers are now of no effect, you may not have realized that.

    But it is true, disclaimers are no longer considered a valid method of warning the consumer.

    (continuing with obsolete, disclaimer) This is not legal advice, if you believe you need legal advice seek a reliable attorney in your jurisdiction.
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    • Profile picture of the author addres86
      Thanks for that Tim, could you pm me your email address please?
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael D Forbes
    A couple things I didn't see mentioned in the thread...

    1) Sales of any kind tend to be "streaky". It has something to do with some random distribution theory i don't really understand. While you may have a run that looks very consistent, especially if you have decent volume, things tend to average out... You are just as likely to have losing streaks as you are winning streaks.

    What I'm saying is that it is very possible this just happens to be a time where sales are down, and refunds have spiked temporarily.

    2) Whats your bottom line look like? Don't ever look at sales a day, or even a week at a time, average things out over a month or more and just watch trends, not isolated time periods. If you make 100 sales this month and lose 50, you still have 50 sales. Is the 50 sales worth pursuing? If you look at it this way, who cares what the refund rate is. Just a differing perspective to consider.

    Let's say you find a $10,000 product to sell. You sell 10 and 8 refund, you still made $20,000. Are you mad about "losing" $80k or happy you made $20k? Personal view, but I say until it's in my account, I didn't earn a cent. Btw, I would take $20k and be glad as long as I didn't spend more than that to get it.

    Michael

    P.S. -I would not rule out the vendor messing something up, I've seen some major sales killing - refund inducing mistakes made by the vendor. Just contact them and ask if they've made any changes. They may not admit it, but then again they might.
    I know a vendor that quadrupled his refund rate over a period of 6 weeks and had no idea why. It was eventually discovered that an update to a plug-in messed up the internals of his site.

    P.P.S. - Can you people please quite telling him not to promote garbage? He already plainly stated that it isn't and he's done well with it before.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Micheal D Forbes View Post

      P.P.S. - Can you people please quite telling him not to promote garbage?
      I won't; no. If it is garbage. :p

      The fact that people choose to promote garbage has an ongoing, cumulative, negative impact on all of us, collectively, as internet marketers; it damages the reputation, image, perception and standing of our businesses, and it's also responsible for the explosive growth in both the numbers of regulators and the powers they can exert over us. It's a lose-lose-lose and we have the right to say so: it's actually important that we should say so.
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  • Profile picture of the author savvybizbuilder
    That's too bad to hear. But it's a part of business, since you are in affiliate marketing for about a decade. You should know that CB is not bad at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Hocking
      Clickbank may have it's issues but it still delivers most constant payouts than any other affiliate program I have promoted.

      I also believe you have to be careful what products you promote. Just because one products gets high refunds does not mean it is the networks fault.

      You will see higher refunds on IM products, especially on over hyped products.

      If one product is bad, find something else to replace it. This is why it is best not to promote the hop links directly.

      Create redirect links that you can control and change if the product changes or is removed.
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  • Profile picture of the author Burton Lancaster
    Their approval process is getting A LOT tougher. I would stay in ... the crap will be filtered out eventually. I have a very legit product and have been waiting a little over a week now, with several questions / quality control task on their end.
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  • Profile picture of the author roblawrence
    With all the "scams" and "make money" things being sold, do you think that even being associated with Clickbank can hurt your reputation? I am considering their recurring billing service but now am hesitant because I don't want to be tainted and thrown in the basket with all the hucksters on there. Seems like ebay did the right thing and "house cleaned" all the digital download stuff and resell rights etc. making selling send a physical CD. Maybe clickbank should do the same?

    Does being associated with Clickbank make you look like a con man and swindler?
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  • Profile picture of the author Helping
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

    $280 worth of refunds in 3 weeks including $100 today alone.

    Screw that.

    This what I get for promoting another person's product, however, so it is partly my fault. Being an affiliate is a newbie mistake but I was doing pretty good there for a while so I thought maybe I had FINALLY found a decent CB product. I was wrong.

    I'm taking down ALL of my Clickbank links this month and just promoting my stuff from now on. Lesson learned. Again.
    Yeah most of the products available on CB aren't high quality. I agree that you're better of putting your own products out there.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    There is MORE on clickbank than those ugly MMO "click a button to make a million" scam products. Also...as if we didnt talk about this almost each week...gravity means nothing. As a first rule...i would avoid ALL those high gravity products everyone is hyping up and talking about.
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  • Profile picture of the author World Marketing
    There is some absolute garbage on clickbank to stay away from...But there are a handful of good products that are worth promoting with low refund rates.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      All these people make it sound like they've carefully reviewed all 15,000 of the currently active products, don't they?

      The reality is that as long as you stay away from the offensive hype and ridiculous, not-FTC-compliant claims of the "make money online" and "internet marketing advice" niches, the other 998-ish niches represented on ClickBank are for the most part perfectly ok.

      People giving this totally one-sided perspective of a couple of small, unrepresentative areas of ClickBank's overwhelmingly huge stock tend, overall, to be people promoting products in notoriously "scammy" niches.

      ClickBank is just a "department store" retailer. Like many others, it has a huge range of products, including a few really cr@p ones. To describe them as having only "a handful of good products that are worth promoting" is just plain ill-informed, opinionated, misleading nonsense.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by World Marketing View Post

      There is some absolute garbage on clickbank to stay away from...But there are a huge amount of good products that are worth promoting with low refund rates.
      Fixed that, Caliban style.
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  • Profile picture of the author steven12345
    Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

    $280 worth of refunds in 3 weeks including $100 today alone.

    Screw that.

    This what I get for promoting another person's product, however, so it is partly my fault. Being an affiliate is a newbie mistake but I was doing pretty good there for a while so I thought maybe I had FINALLY found a decent CB product. I was wrong.

    I'm taking down ALL of my Clickbank links this month and just promoting my stuff from now on. Lesson learned. Again.
    The problem with Clickbank is that, you've no control over customers or affiliates. Someone can buy your product and get your help and then get a no quibble refund after 55 days. This has always been open to abuse and your better using another payment process like paydotcom were you choose if you wish to have a refund facility, how many days and control over affiliation.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by steven12345 View Post

      Someone can buy your product and get your help and then get a no quibble refund after 55 days.
      They can, but of course that's also what makes it so easy to sell ClickBank products in the first place. The proportion refunded depends (as ever, as anywhere) on the pre-selling process. Different affiliates have vastly differing refund-rates for the same products, according to the customer-expectations created by their pre-selling.

      Originally Posted by steven12345 View Post

      your better using another payment process like paydotcom
      On the contrary: few serious, professional affiliates will look at PayDotCom products for the simple and obvious reason that we'd be dependent on the vendor for payment. That's a problem and a potential risk we don't need, thanks. The people doing this for their full-time livings tend to stick to ClickBank, DigiResults and RAP, so that we don't have to worry about prompt payment for our work.

      Originally Posted by steven12345 View Post

      and control over affiliation.
      You can actually have that at ClickBank, too, if you want to: it's just that many people don't realise it.
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  • Profile picture of the author KruKim
    It would actually help if TS would tell what exact product he was selling, or at least its category. Also it would be useful to create an approximate list of categories/products to stay away from on CB.
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  • Profile picture of the author JCorp
    Credibility and reputability is something you do risk when it comes to promoting other people's products. But don't lose heart, there are good products out there...like mine
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    • Profile picture of the author Nak
      I am promoting some good products from clickbank & have no refunds including weight loss.
      But I do not promote products which claims are outrageous. May be hype sales letter & low product value drive refunds... but I do not think clickbank is responsible for it..clickbank just follows fair practices...
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  • Profile picture of the author ChadOath
    As a vendor, I've seen a recent surge in refunds as well, and can't figure out why. The thing that makes it weird is that refund requests are coming from the CB reps who report "the customer contacted Clickbank". The amount of these type of refund requests are disproportionately higher than requests from buyers who contact me directly or who request a refund on their own via the support link. I've even contacted the customers to see what the issue is, to which a few normally reply. None of them are replying to my recent emails. Weird...
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    • Profile picture of the author sprice
      Yeah Clickbank refunds suck, but with the way that they make it so easy to get a refund it's kind of expected on there.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
        Originally Posted by sprice View Post

        Yeah Clickbank refunds suck, but with the way that they make it so easy to get a refund it's kind of expected on there.
        Personally, my thoughts on Clickbank are certainly becoming changeable. Mostly because of intentional refunders.

        Apart from that, there are a number of issues that concern me, many of which Ive expressed openly here on the forum.

        Not only the enforcement of pricing restrictions of $100 for new accounts, (which I personally feel only encourages the creation of lower quality cheaply made products), but also the entire Clickbank entity in itself as a whole. Its beginning to build a reputation of low end, crappy products. As a business owner and vendor, thats not something I want to be a part of.

        As more and more people become aware of how easy it is to "game" the system, the problem will only worsen.

        I dont know what the future holds for Clickbank, but for me personally, as a vendor, Im seeking alternatives - and fast.

        These are only my thoughts as a vendor. For affiliates its probably a lot different. But when you put 5 or 6 months into a product, and thousands of dollars - only to have it refunded by some knucklehead 4 minutes after purchase, then that aint such a great feeling.

        Then of course there's those who treat the whole system like a voucher discount store. Buying under their own affiliate ID's. Even when you give them a discount link!!!

        No thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Teenage Genius
    To OP:

    Rich, you've learned something brother and that is more valuable than the money which you was making as an affiliate, by the sounds of things.

    With "Affiliate" marketing some reach the conclusion that they should be the one's crafting the products that actually get sold - this way they don't have to do all the sales work (well, except for the sales copy and a small amount of other promotions, if your going to do that yourself - which by the way, I do; because saving money when you are building and even sustaining a business is key) or any of the serious promoting as your affiliates will handle this for you.

    But this doesn't mean you can't make a lot of money as an affiliate - perhaps you just haven't mastered how to make money as an affiliate - or you simply don't enjoy what you are doing as an affiliate marketer but only you can answer that.

    If you are planning on creating your own products good on you! I fully support anybody who desires to create products - I suffer happily from that passion myself!

    I wish you all the best brother,
    TG
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Well I just woke this morning to another $150 worth of refunds. One from a customer that purchased exactly 60 days ago.

    Sick of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author monetization
    If you still haven't figured out the issue, I would actually buy the product yourself and see what may have changed. Most people who buy Clickbank MMO products know that they can send one simple email to get a refund, no questions asked. It is unusual to see the same behavior in the weight loss niche to the extreme you are seeing.

    If you still intend on promoting the product, then buying the product yourself and seeing the pathway, you will probably be able to quickly see why refunds have jump up so significantly.

    All things being equal, it's probably something they change in their sales process on the backend, more likely than not.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMSince2003
    I know people are trying to be helpful, but look at the OP. This thread is months old people. I actually read all the posts. There's a whole bunch of good info here, just go read it.
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