I Just Unsubscribed From YOUR List! Here's Why...

by sal64
129 replies
Quite frankly, I've had enough of your garbage emails.

I was on your list because I purchased something from you. This means that I trust you, I have an open mind... and an open wallet.

But where's the love?

How about throwing me the occasional bone that will actually help my grow my business?

Is that all you have to offer? A barrage of marketing emails that simply ask me for more money?

Did you ever stop to consider that if I haven't yet used the first product, I may be struggling and need some help? Did you ever stop to consider that if it doesn't work then I won't buy from you ever again.

Do you even care? Are you about making some sales here and there or building a real, long term business?

Maybe it's the former and you're doing ok. If so then good luck to you but don't expect me to buy from you ever again.

What's that.. I'm talking cr@p?

If that's your view, then consider this...

If you're selling ongoing new products such as PLR packs: Have you considered the prospect that if I actually consume your product and make the money that you guarantee I'll make... then I'll keep coming back every time.

But what about those customers who aren't savvy, or are newbies? Have you ever thought about setting up a blog and posting some really helpful hints and tips on a regular basis?

Heaven forbid that you build relationships with these people. Why waste time doing that? It's easier to send out a promo email. Never mind credibility, eh?

What about other people's products?

Nothing like a quick % is there. But do you really think that I don't know that you're after the % and have probably never used the product? Ah well, you can fool some of the people some of the time, so all's sweet.

You see, when I started out in IM, it was all about relationships and building trust. My income grew relative to the value I provided. Sadly, that doesn't seem to matter these days. But it sure as hell explains why there is such a churn in this industry and why over 90% fail.

Now don't get me wrong... I am happy to hear about your latest product.

But here's the rub...

If you're one of the few who actually care enough to help my business grow, I'll buy from you in an instant. Heck, I even buy products from a select few even if I don't really need them. I do this because they care. Their products and communication have made a huge impact on my business. So I almost see them as family and buy their stuff simply to support THEM and return the love.

So wake up and get a clue!

Make the effort. Show me some love. Throw me a bone. It doesn't have to be massive... just show me that you know what you're doing and that you appreciate my business.

So please - STOP sending me emails every 48 hours asking me to buy something.

THE POINT OF THIS POST:

With the economy hanging by a thread, now is the time to really take care of your customers and create some loyalty. Sure beats pulling your hair out trying to find new customers.

Think about it.
#list #unsubscribed
  • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
    Hey, I luv ya... but you didn't buy any of my products, LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

      Hey, I luv ya... but you didn't buy any of my products, LOL
      I'm not on your list.
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  • Profile picture of the author PatrickP
    Well if you see posts of guys who send lots of follow up emails they will tell you that if people do NOT unsubscribe they are not sending out enough.

    Sounds like the person who was sending you the emails succeeded.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Jeez, Sal, quit candy coating things and tell us how you really feel... ( )
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Originally Posted by PatrickP View Post

      Well if you see posts of guys who send lots of follow up emails they will tell you that if people do NOT unsubscribe they are not sending out enough.

      Sounds like the person who was sending you the emails succeeded.

      Succeeded in what actually?

      Pissing me off?

      Of course their argument helps them justify their logic and approach.

      Reality is that people on your list mean squat. Most will forget you within weeks if not days.

      But consider the following...

      If you make the effort to deliver value on a regular basis, you are keeping your name above the noise and building rapport. This to me has been the cornerstone of my success.

      Don't get me wrong. I promote as well. But I get better conversions when I promote to my little family of raving fans.
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      • Profile picture of the author azmanar
        Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

        Succeeded in what actually?

        Pissing me off?

        Of course their argument helps them justify their logic and approach.

        Reality is that people on your list mean squat. Most will forget you within weeks if not days.

        But consider the following...

        If you make the effort to deliver value on a regular basis, you are keeping your name above the noise and building rapport. This to me has been the cornerstone of my success.

        Don't get me wrong. I promote as well. But I get better conversions when I promote to my little family of raving fans.
        Hi Sal,

        Pretty good advice.

        Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

    If you're one of the few who actually care enough to help my business grow, I'll buy from you in an instant. Heck, I even buy products from a select few even if I don't really need them. I do this because they care. Their products and communication have made a huge impact on my business. So I almost see them as family and buy their stuff simply to support THEM and return the love.

    So wake up and get a clue!

    The people slamming you with offers generally don't care if you unsubscribe. You are just a number to them.

    Taking time to post messages to an autoresponder that will actually help you with your business takes time, effort and work.

    Most of the people slamming you with offers did not create a mailing list to help other people, so the last thing on their mind is doing any kind of actual work to help you.

    I have always made it a point to unsub anyone who did not know or care what was in an offer's sales page, for an offer they were promoting. If their little pitch contradicts the sales page, I am outta there... Would you be surprised if I told you that I unsub from a ton of marketer's lists for this reason?

    Yesterday, one of our fellow warriors sent a shady email to me.

    It said in the subject line, something to the effect of "Thank you for subscribing to...."

    Inside the email, it said in effect, "Thank you for your purchase. To get your free bonuses, we need you to verify your email address. Click here to verify..."

    I haven't bought anything from that guy since I got on his list 12 months ago, and I already have his bonuses that were due to me for my original purchase.

    His mail yesterday was designed to get me on someone's mailing list, by emulating double opt-in.

    I was pissed because:

    1. It was deceptive; and
    2. He was probably trying to sell my address to someone else.
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    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      Yesterday, one of our fellow warriors sent a shady email to me.

      It said in the subject line, something to the effect of "Thank you for subscribing to...."

      Inside the email, it said in effect, "Thank you for your purchase. To get your free bonuses, we need you to verify your email address. Click here to verify..."

      I haven't bought anything from that guy since I got on his list 12 months ago, and I already have his bonuses that were due to me for my original purchase.

      His mail yesterday was designed to get me on someone's mailing list, by emulating double opt-in.

      I was pissed because:

      1. It was deceptive; and
      2. He was probably trying to sell my address to someone else.
      Was this an adswap? or a promo in disguise?

      I actually had to do this yesterday as I imported my list into a new autoresponder... If it was me - I apologize - that's what happened... It was not "emulating" double opt-in but truly double opt-in... (or reconfirming after import)

      If your not talking about me - guess I should shut up :p

      But I do agree with the part where you told Sal that the marketer sending those emails doesn't care and is just a number and doubt they read the messages you leave when you unsub...

      Seems to be a common thing - especially for the clickbank launches and it seems that a lot of "that" is now spilling over into our beloved forum...

      Just unsub and hit em where it hurts
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        Yesterday, one of our fellow warriors sent a shady email to me.

        It said in the subject line, something to the effect of "Thank you for subscribing to...."

        Inside the email, it said in effect, "Thank you for your purchase. To get your free bonuses, we need you to verify your email address. Click here to verify..."

        I haven't bought anything from that guy since I got on his list 12 months ago, and I already have his bonuses that were due to me for my original purchase.

        His mail yesterday was designed to get me on someone's mailing list, by emulating double opt-in.

        I was pissed because:

        1. It was deceptive; and
        2. He was probably trying to sell my address to someone else.
        Originally Posted by Coby View Post

        Was this an adswap? or a promo in disguise?

        I actually had to do this yesterday as I imported my list into a new autoresponder... If it was me - I apologize - that's what happened...

        If your not talking about me - guess I should shut up :p

        But I do agree with the part where you told Sal that the marketer sending those emails doesn't care and is just a number and doubt they read the messages you leave when you unsub...

        Seems to be a common thing - especially for the clickbank launches and it seems that a lot of "that" is now spilling over into our beloved forum...

        Just unsub and hit em where it hurts

        Now that you mention it, I was talking about the email YOU sent.

        I haven't unsubbed you yet, but I sure did consider it.

        Next time, just be a little more transparent about what you are doing, and you might find me and others taking the action you wanted us to take.

        If you are killing the current list, I guess you will unsub me, because I did not click your link. :rolleyes:
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        Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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        • Profile picture of the author Coby
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          Now that you mention it, I was talking about the email YOU sent.

          I haven't unsubbed you yet, but I sure did consider it.

          Next time, just be a little more transparent about what you are doing, and you might find me and others taking the action you wanted us to take.

          If you are killing the current list, I guess you will unsub me, because I did not click your link. :rolleyes:
          Well - their was a mix up and if you had click the confirm link you would have got a better explanation... As I also just sent another email to those that confirmed (with my latest WSO as a free bonus)...

          I agree though - it was my mistake - to say it didn't go as planned would be an understatement... It was not an attempt to mislead you...

          Yes, I will be killing the other list (albeit slowly) - there is a good chance you haven't even been getting my emails over the past year - which is one reason I'm "spreading my eggs around"...

          And if you have been getting my emails and reading them you know I'm always transparent and upfront about what I'm doing and take pride in the fact that I don't fill up your inbox with offers but provide lots of quality content and try to do at least one video a week, (granted you are likely much to experienced to benefit from most of them) and wouldn't try to pull a trick just to get a click...

          So if you still get email from my old a/r or from iContact you will get more info on this...

          I've spent the better part of the day replying to emails/skype messages wondering if I'd been hacked, etc. So I understand your frustation.

          Either way - stay or go - thanks for the feedback - I really do appreciate it and always take it as a learning experience...

          Cheers,
          Coby
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by Coby View Post

            And if you have been getting my emails and reading them you know I'm always transparent and upfront about what I'm doing and take pride in the fact that I don't fill up your inbox with offers but provide lots of quality content and try to do at least one video a week, (granted you are likely much to experienced to benefit from most of them) and wouldn't try to pull a trick just to get a click...

            So if you still get email from my old a/r or from iContact you will get more info on this...

            To be honest, this is the only reason I did not unsub you yesterday.

            I have always found you to be cut from a different cloth than most, and I respect that.
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            Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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            • Profile picture of the author Coby
              Originally Posted by tpw View Post

              To be honest, this is the only reason I did not unsub you yesterday.

              I have always found you to be cut from a different cloth than most, and I respect that.
              Must be an Oklahoma thing

              My hometown is Ardmore, lived in Norman for many years too

              Thanks Bill!
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      • Profile picture of the author Jamesgregory
        Haha I enjoyed reading this.

        I think that you may have mistakenly been segmented to the portion of that marketers list for the people who look for "get rich quick" opportunities.

        I know of a certain guy who's list I'm on who did it right: he started out with a TON of value, I've purchased a couple affiliate offers over time, his list segmenting automatically figured out which ones I bought and segmented me accordingly to follow up on those offers with MORE value that helps with what I've purchased.

        Over time and seeing my interests, purchasing activity, etc, he was able to segment me accordingly to a part of his list that didn't include offer here, offer there, offers everywhere! For the ppl that buy all the time (not saying that's you) why not put them on the "offers everywhere" segment of the list?

        I see issues with list segmenting here.. And totally agree with your points. There should always be value in every email sent out!

        -jg
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  • Profile picture of the author dv8domainsDotCom
    I have to applaud the sentiment... I get (from 2 people/companies, no less!) the same "type" of email

    Subject: {You won't believe this|This is crazy|My jaw DROPPED!} (or some other outrageous opener)

    Body:
    {No Way!|Check this out!|This guy's KILLIN IT!|You've gotta see this...}
    (some short-link)

    Thanks,
    ---

    (and no, it doesn't arrive that way, I'm just tired of a 1-liner subject and body trying to entice me to click.)
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      I feel your pain.

      The point of this thread isn't a biatchfest about emails... more of a tried and true approach to building a long term sustainable business.


      Originally Posted by dv8domainsDotCom View Post

      I have to applaud the sentiment... I get (from 2 people/companies, no less!) the same "type" of email

      Subject: {You won't believe this|This is crazy|My jaw DROPPED!} (or some other outrageous opener)

      Body:
      {No Way!|Check this out!|This guy's KILLIN IT!|You've gotta see this...}
      (some short-link)

      Thanks,
      ---

      (and no, it doesn't arrive that way, I'm just tired of a 1-liner subject and body trying to entice me to click.)
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    i am actually on 527 internet marketing emails lists at this point. i know the exact number because i use a filter in gmail to make sure they never hit my inbox but go into a special folder.

    if i ever have an issue or need a product to solve an issue (usually a software) i use the search function, and can usually find a solutions.

    i also use these emails as a swipe file from time to time for inspiration.

    i always wonder how many ways to make 100k in the next 30 days people think i need. if you ever ask one of these people that, you usually get a pretty nasty reply.

    btw. i have built up my massive list of optins over 15 years or so.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by owslaw123 View Post

      i am actually on 527 internet marketing emails lists at this point. i know the exact number because i use a filter in gmail to make sure they never hit my inbox but go into a special folder.

      if i ever have an issue or need a product to solve an issue (usually a software) i use the search function, and can usually find a solutions.

      i also use these emails as a swipe file from time to time for inspiration.

      i always wonder how many ways to make 100k in the next 30 days people think i need. if you ever ask one of these people that, you usually get a pretty nasty reply.

      btw. i have built up my massive list of optins over 15 years or so.

      If your subscribers are just like you, then probably no one is reading your email.
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      Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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      • Profile picture of the author David Keith
        tpw...very true, but i am not in the IM niche. never have been.

        i am thinking of maybe giving it a go, but who knows.

        and in truth i do have about 5 that i do let hit my inbox. because they earned that right by providing me with valuable content and not blasting me with every offer under the sun.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
          Does anyone even open emails anymore?

          That seems so 2009...

          Here's the deal, if you think it all gets down to "the money is in the list" don't buy your Ferrari on credit.

          ~Bill
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          • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
            Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

            Does anyone even open emails anymore?

            That seems so 2009...

            Here's the deal, if you think it all gets down to "the money is in the list" don't buy your Ferarri on credit.

            ~Bill
            LMAO Bill.

            Preach it. The money ain't in the list. The money is in the connections with your "tribe."
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        Stuff and nonsense! I send almost exclusively promo emails because my subscribers, for the most part, already know how to use the PLR they're buying. I do send an occasional freebie and I also respond to any questions by email.

        Sure, if it's nothing but promoting the next affiliate product, then that's not much of a relationship builder but not everyone HAS to send content emails to build that relationship.

        And just for the record, I get just as many and often MORE unsubscribes when I send free content as I do when I send a promo. I don't have a gigantic list, by any means, but I can't imagine my stats are much different from those who do.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeff Hampton
          Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

          And just for the record, I get just as many and often MORE unsubscribes when I send free content as I do when I send a promo.
          I never would have believed this before I had a list, but I have found the same thing. I don't get it.
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          • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
            Originally Posted by Jeff Hampton View Post

            I don't get it.
            Does the free offer produce a higher open/read rate?
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            It's as much the tone as anything. I get emails from some I've purchased from to let me know they've released a new product. I don't mind that at all. If I like my first purchase, I may want more products from them.

            The "takes-the-cake" email I received last week was a different story. I had purchased a low cost WSO out of curiosity and nothing more. I was immediate bombarded with one email after another - each promoting a different WSO!

            Ok - the dude's an affiliate. I get that - but 2-3 emails a day each with a different "you have to see this" WSO promotion? Puhhhlleeeeze.

            The one I finally bothered to unsubscribe from was the gem. A promo for a new product (WSO) and below that 10 line email was a statement....

            "Here are some other great products that you may need"

            What followed was a list of about a dozen links to various WSOs on wildly varied topics. Can you say "desperation marketing"? "Please, please, please, ....buy something....anything". Not gonna happen, darlin.

            kay
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            • Profile picture of the author JMSD
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              It's as much the tone as anything. I get emails from some I've purchased from to let me know they've released a new product. I don't mind that at all. If I like my first purchase, I may want more products from them.

              The "takes-the-cake" email I received last week was a different story. I had purchased a low cost WSO out of curiosity and nothing more. I was immediate bombarded with one email after another - each promoting a different WSO!

              Ok - the dude's an affiliate. I get that - but 2-3 emails a day each with a different "you have to see this" WSO promotion? Puhhhlleeeeze.

              The one I finally bothered to unsubscribe from was the gem. A promo for a new product (WSO) and below that 10 line email was a statement....

              "Here are some other great products that you may need"

              What followed was a list of about a dozen links to various WSOs on wildly varied topics. Can you say "desperation marketing"? "Please, please, please, ....buy something....anything". Not gonna happen, darlin.

              kay
              Someone with your experience would, of course, find the above unacceptable but for newbies who may not have seen other WSOs, they would welcome seeing a list of other offers. They don't have to act on it but the promoter is not doing harm by mentioning the list. I've never thought that it smacked of desperation. It's certainly an example of how not to do something.

              I personally don't send out promotions unless I've bought the product, tried and tested it and found it to be really good. The rest of the time, I provide helpful content. Unsubscribe rate is minimal. And, yes. Those few that have unsubscribed have been as much as a result of a free offer as when promoting a product as an affiliate. It doesn't bother me because I've unsubscribed from other people's lists when my inbox has become crowded and I wanted to start afresh.

              James
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        • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
          Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

          Stuff and nonsense! I send almost exclusively promo emails because my subscribers, for the most part, already know how to use the PLR they're buying.
          Add if they have bought PLR then they are getting what they signed up for. I bet your readers' know what to expect when they see your email, and as someone who buys PLR (and other products) then I use those types of emails as more like a catalogue. I know that I will get what it says in the email, it's just a matter of if I want it at the time.

          What I wouldn't expect is you to start selling me make money online guides. That would be a quick unsub. If you started promoting guides on using PLR then I would be interested but that doesn't mean I won't unsub when you start promoting crap willy-nilly.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
            Originally Posted by Fraggler View Post

            What I wouldn't expect is you to start selling me make money online guides. That would be a quick unsub. If you started promoting guides on using PLR then I would be interested but that doesn't mean I won't unsub when you start promoting crap willy-nilly.
            Naturally, I agree with that. There are stupid ways to use a list and promoting crap is one of the worst...lol.

            I only made the comment because the way the OP put it is that it's a bad thing in general to just send promos and not send content. And I've just not found that to be true at all in my case.
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            • Profile picture of the author sal64
              No, i think you missed my point.

              I have nothing against marketing.

              And I am certain your select clients know what to expect from you. You have worked hard to build your reputation with quality content.

              I'm referring to what I see as one big spam-fest.

              I bet you don't send out an email every other day suggesting to your list that they buy stuff that isn't yours, do you?



              Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

              Naturally, I agree with that. There are stupid ways to use a list and promoting crap is one of the worst...lol.

              I only made the comment because the way the OP put it is that it's a bad thing in general to just send promos and not send content. And I've just not found that to be true at all in my case.
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              • Profile picture of the author Harmony
                I agree wholeheartedly about taking care of customers. I'm happy to buy from someone who delivers value, quality, and believes in relationship building.

                But I'm starting to unsubscribe from marketers who say they are all about building relationships and delivering value - when every single email is just a breadcrumb leading to their next $1997 product. Yes, I understand I'm being marketed to but nowadays an email that is really a 'hey I thought this was great and wanted to share' (and has nothing to do about my upcoming product) does much more toward gaining my longterm loyalty. The breadcrumb tact veiled as 'See, I care!' is making my eyes roll more and more and I only open to unsubscribe.

                There's a fine line b/t marketing and manipulating. I'm coming to appreciate the straight sell emails - at least they are not slowly bullish**ng their way into my pocket.
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                • Profile picture of the author Coby
                  Originally Posted by Harmony View Post

                  There's a fine line b/t marketing and manipulating. I'm coming to appreciate the straight sell emails - at least they are not slowly bullish**ng their way into my pocket.
                  Nice!

                  I always say 'Be transparent' especially in the IM niche because hello we are marketers too..

                  Now, this probably works killer for other niches - but my results show my people like to be talked to like..... (pause for effect) PEOPLE

                  I have no problems pointing out the flaws of a product or sales page to my list (yes, even my buddies products) and saying stuff like "this looks hypey" because people are thinking the exact same thing... Be upfront, be honest, and holy crap they listen!?!

                  But let's not spread that around...
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              • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
                I have been saying this for a few years now - TEST.

                I have tested both approaches off of the same traffic/squeeze pages.

                1) The "promo only" list made more money up front
                2) The "promo only" list makes just as many sales as my "content list" when I mail them, years later.
                3) before I split tested this, I was using a "balanced" approach with one 1 list, and my most problemtatic emails (regarding unsubs/complaints) were often pure content emails.

                so, even long term, my "promo only" lists rarely underperform my "make them love me with lots of good content" lists.

                Combined with the short term advantage, my "promo only" lists have usually been the better path of the 2.

                I am not saying this will be true for everyone... nor am I saying "promo only" means promote garbage.

                I'm suggesting that often times reality doesn't seem to want to play nice with our beliefs (or the intellectual meanderings of some "thought leader").

                I would rather make 2 sales today to the people who are interested (and willing/able and perhaps actively pursueing) in buying a solution now, vs losing those customers/sales to someone else while I cater to the 1 person who might buy something... later... maybe...

                While we might want to believe we can have all 3 sales, in my experience this is not usually the case . The 2 immediate sales will end up buying from someone else who was willing to ask for the sale, and the other person still might buy... later... maybe...

                2 birds in the hand beats 1 in the bush

                Oh - and guess what?
                Those 2 immediate sales?
                If you didn't screw them over and pitch/sell junk, they will probably buy from you again down the road.. while the other person might buy something... later... maybe...
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                • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                  Originally Posted by Alan Ashwood View Post

                  That bl**dy fish must be rank by now!

                  But my best fishing buddy just created this awesome program just for you.

                  Sounds fishy to me.


                  The last time I saw that bloody fish, she was swimming away a little sadder but wiser about shiny objects...
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
          Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

          Stuff and nonsense! I send almost exclusively promo emails because my subscribers, for the most part, already know how to use the PLR they're buying. I do send an occasional freebie and I also respond to any questions by email.

          Sure, if it's nothing but promoting the next affiliate product, then that's not much of a relationship builder but not everyone HAS to send content emails to build that relationship.

          And just for the record, I get just as many and often MORE unsubscribes when I send free content as I do when I send a promo. I don't have a gigantic list, by any means, but I can't imagine my stats are much different from those who do.
          I agree with Tina here, and have had pretty much the same experience.

          My list size in the IM niche is TINY compared to what many have, tiny..., because I've never really done any list building in the IM space...We don't do giveaways, or freebies to get emails etc...

          For the longest time, we never mailed the list we had - EVER...if we mailed it once every 3 months, we were doing good. Then, we started just sending straight up info emails, and we got a ton of unsubscribes every time we did it. Then we started posting good info on our blog, and mailing the list to tell them to check out the blog post...we got a ton of unsubscribes.

          Then we started emailing them to let them know about good products when we would find them...Our unsubscribes were cut down by 75% AND 90% of the time, people that unsubscribe are people that never bought anything anyway, and ended up on our list because we bought a solo or something a couple months ago, when we were trying "them out"...

          Trust me, I know what you're saying, and probably felt the same way 3 years ago, but seeing the results and stats from both sides of the fence as far as a list owner goes, tells me that the people on my list at least would rather hear about a product that we think is good, rather than hear us drone on about whatever free info we want to give them.

          So....

          Hit the send button and count the unsubs

          OR

          Hit the send button, know that you recommended a solid product, and pay a mortgage payment

          On the other hand, we will also send an email if we think a product absolutely sucks, and tell our list not to buy it, and why we think it's horrible, which believe it or not...get's us a ton of unsubscribes

          lol... It's confusing stuff....
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          • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
            I know, it is totally counter intuitive lol

            You just summed up my entire experience when testing these things.

            Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

            I agree with Tina here, and have had pretty much the same experience.

            My list size in the IM niche is TINY compared to what many have, tiny..., because I've never really done any list building in the IM space...We don't do giveaways, or freebies to get emails etc...

            For the longest time, we never mailed the list we had - EVER...if we mailed it once every 3 months, we were doing good. Then, we started just sending straight up info emails, and we got a ton of unsubscribes every time we did it. Then we started posting good info on our blog, and mailing the list to tell them to check out the blog post...we got a ton of unsubscribes.

            Then we started emailing them to let them know about good products when we would find them...Our unsubscribes were cut down by 75% AND 90% of the time, people that unsubscribe are people that never bought anything anyway, and ended up on our list because we bought a solo or something a couple months ago, when we were trying "them out"...

            Trust me, I know what you're saying, and probably felt the same way 3 years ago, but seeing the results and stats from both sides of the fence as far as a list owner goes, tells me that the people on my list at least would rather hear about a product that we think is good, rather than hear us drone on about whatever free info we want to give them.

            So....

            Hit the send button and count the unsubs

            OR

            Hit the send button, know that you recommended a solid product, and pay a mortgage payment

            On the other hand, we will also send an email if we think a product absolutely sucks, and tell our list not to buy it, and why we think it's horrible, which believe it or not...get's us a ton of unsubscribes

            lol... It's confusing stuff....
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        • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

          Stuff and nonsense! I send almost exclusively promo emails because my subscribers, for the most part, already know how to use the PLR they're buying. I do send an occasional freebie and I also respond to any questions by email.

          Sure, if it's nothing but promoting the next affiliate product, then that's not much of a relationship builder but not everyone HAS to send content emails to build that relationship.

          And just for the record, I get just as many and often MORE unsubscribes when I send free content as I do when I send a promo. I don't have a gigantic list, by any means, but I can't imagine my stats are much different from those who do.
          I agree with Tina and Jeremy - from what I've experienced and tested, with or without "content" generally results in a similar number of unsubscribes.

          It really boils down to what your list is expecting from you as well as their premise for subscribing. If you promised them a news letter packed full of info and bombarded them with offers, sure, they're going to unsubscribe.

          We have a core list - the folks on that list want to know about product updates and sales, so that's what they get.

          John [Rogers], the guy running the company, dabbles in affiliate marketing. So after some testing he let our subscribers know that they could opt out of receiving affiliate offers without coming off the main list.

          Not surprisingly, very few people unsubscribed from the affiliate list. If I had to take a guess as to why, it's because John personally buys and vets the products personally and only promotes what, in his opinion, would be valuable to folks on the list in terms of what they're doing.

          John's approach reminds me of my corporate days and having to deal with vendors. I used to tell them that if they wanted to sell me on something, the best way they could do that is to not bother me with a lot of sales BS. Get to know what I need and then send me the bullets on that - I'll decide what I need more detail on. The ones that did, made out like bandits - the ones that didn't, well, didn't see any sales.

          While I agree that bombarding anyone with multiple offers throughout the day, every day is unproductive, keeping your list apprised of what's available and what they might find useful is on the same level as just sending any sort of "Content".

          As far as I know, folks on our list get that - the rest unusbscribe.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    This might not win me any friends, but that's OK. I've got my flying monkeys.

    You're just not going to please everyone no matter what you do with your list. Like Tina mentioned, even the most altruistic and generous emails you'll ever send will get you some unsubscribers. So where does that leave you?

    I say do what your instincts tell you. If you really pay attention, your mind is probably giving you the obvious answer: stop worrying about it and do what you think is best. I mean what you REALLY think is best, not what you've read or heard or whatever. You ultimately want to make money from your list, right? That's pretty much the one universal constant. So you have to try to get them to buy something eventually. If you let yourself get all tangled up in unsubscribe numbers and the occasional negative feedback, you'll get gun shy and stop altogether. Where's that leave you? Bunch of wasted time building a list, that's where.

    I say find your OWN comfort zone and do what you think is truly best. No matter what you do, it's going to make some people on your list unhappy. So be it.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    I actually did do that.

    Yep, I sell PLR websites but I have a whole site dedicated to showing the buyers how they can get traffic to those sites.

    It's all free and shows them free methods.

    I even have a case study that shows them exactly what I did to a PLR blog to get it ranked and earning.

    In the setup guide for the blogs, I practically beg people to go visit the site so they can make money with their blogs too.

    I took me tens of hours to make that site. Maybe even hundreds.

    Guess what?

    Practically no one goes there.

    Lee
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    Gone Fishing
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    Kay, not that I would do that in my business, but it can work. It comes down to how fast you can replace the flood of unsubscribers such tactics inevitably produce. If you have a great system in place for driving lots of traffic and your squeeze page converts nicely, you can "afford" to lose a ton of opt-outs from heavy marketing like that. And you'll make money doing it.

    But here's the thing about such "churn and burn" tactics.... it burns bridges. It's short-sighted because a lot of those people will remember what you did. You might make more money faster, but at what cost to your personal branding and, therefore, your long-term viability?

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post


      But here's the thing about such "churn and burn" tactics.... it burns bridges. It's short-sighted because a lot of those people will remember what you did. You might make more money faster, but at what cost to your personal branding and, therefore, your long-term viability?

      John
      nail-hammer-head.
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      Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    I have unsubscribed from a bunch of lists lately. The ones left are the
    people who have sold me a good product, added value to my business
    and built a relationship over a period of time. Just looking at my email
    now and there are about 10 more that need to go.

    Thomas
    Signature
    When you hear someone telling you what YOU can't do, they are usually talking about what THEY can't do.
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  • Profile picture of the author Owen Mailer
    i think the first post says it all!! good effort!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Rach72
    Although I can't agree with the PLR example (it's a list designed to notify people of new PLR products available - you know this when you sign on) I do agree with the general sentiments that are p***** the OP off.

    I recently had a barrage of emails from someone that I have been a subscriber for for years. After a 3 month absence they returned to my in-box sporadically with new offers blah blah. Being the long -term subscriber I decided to give the person a chance to reconnect with their audience - like they used to.

    I got the expected standard reply from the assistant - we like it, it converts, unsubscribe if you like, see ya.

    When I went to unsubscribe from the next email I saw that the person had got all spiffy about my comments, called me a few things and even included my name in the broadcast sent out to their list.

    Ironically the product that they were promoting was for reputation management - now why would you need that?

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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by Rach72 View Post

      When I went to unsubscribe from the next email I saw that the person had got all spiffy about my comments, called me a few things and even included my name in the broadcast sent out to their list.

      Ironically the product that they were promoting was for reputation management - now why would you need that?

      Now that's just plain rude and possibly illegal, depending on whether that person has a privacy policy in place.
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  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
    Banned
    Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

    Make the effort. Show me some love. Throw me a bone. It doesn't have to be massive... just show me that you know what you're doing
    That's what she said.
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  • Profile picture of the author ShawnSells
    I stay subscribed as long I get something worthwhile every few emails. I don't expect to be tutored in these emails, but a steady stream of nothing but ads will cause me to unsubscribe.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      As John mentioned above, the "churn and burn" email method is defended and often recommended.

      I think it's one of the stupidest "methods" I've seen in IM. The people quickest to "burn" off the list may be folks like some posting in this thread. We do buy productd - we don't ask for refunds - and we don't tolerate email list owners who treat us like cattle. We remember who they are, too

      Seems to me you might end up with a list composed of people who are looking for freebies or think reading links to sales pages is "being an IMer".:rolleyes:
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      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

      I'm going to work on being less condescending
      (Condescending means to talk down to people)
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      • Profile picture of the author Christian Chan
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        As John mentioned above, the "churn and burn" email method is defended and often recommended.

        I think it's one of the stupidest "methods" I've seen in IM. The people quickest to "burn" off the list may be folks like some posting in this thread. We do buy productd - we don't ask for refunds - and we don't tolerate email list owners who treat us like cattle. We remember who they are, too

        Seems to me you might end up with a list composed of people who are looking for freebies or think reading links to sales pages is "being an IMer".:rolleyes:
        Because these people come and go, so it doesn't make sense to keep them for long term, you see. Average lifespan of your internet marketer is about 6 months according to some guy who keeps spamming me. He was trying to justify his sins. So essentially he is trying to maximize his profits since we are here for a short run.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Keith
          Originally Posted by Christian Chan View Post

          Because these people come and go, so it doesn't make sense to keep them for long term, you see. Average lifespan of your internet marketer is about 6 months according to some guy who keeps spamming me. He was trying to justify his sins. So essentially he is trying to maximize his profits since we are here for a short run.
          and those that only stay for 6 months are not generally the guys who spend consistent money on mid to high end products.

          which is really where the money is for most as an affiliate or as a product owner. you dont see very many people who ONLY sell $7 ebooks.

          many use them as loss leaders and such, but most eventually try to sell you something of higher value and thus make more money.
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        • Profile picture of the author PatrickP
          Originally Posted by Christian Chan View Post

          Because these people come and go, so it doesn't make sense to keep them for long term, you see. Average lifespan of your internet marketer is about 6 months according to some guy who keeps spamming me. He was trying to justify his sins. So essentially he is trying to maximize his profits since we are here for a short run.
          Exactly. This is where IM is so different. They use and abuse the people because they don't care about them and figure they will be gone soon.

          Many other industries value their customers for the long term.
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
            I have emailing back and forth today with a warrio whose WSO I bought last week. A nice tight little WSO that has really worked for me already. I bought another WSO based on his recommendation today.

            And it was the perfect product to come along right when I needed it. I had no issue with him recommending it to me even though it was not related to his wso.

            I don't want all the same kind of product offer in my inbox every day. I like seeing different products from different people who have different ideas than I do. That has helped me learn a lot of really good things.
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        • Profile picture of the author sal64
          Originally Posted by Christian Chan View Post

          Because these people come and go, so it doesn't make sense to keep them for long term, you see. Average lifespan of your internet marketer is about 6 months according to some guy who keeps spamming me. He was trying to justify his sins. So essentially he is trying to maximize his profits since we are here for a short run.
          Now let me ask you...

          If these people actually provided quality and built a relationship with you, would you be more open to their offers?
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          • Profile picture of the author drmani
            Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

            If these people actually provided quality and built a relationship with you, would you be more open to their offers?
            As an email marketer, my counter-question to you, Sal, is this:

            Are you testing both approaches against each other with the same or similar list?

            If no, start. You just *might* be surprised

            All success
            Dr.Mani
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            • Profile picture of the author sal64
              Hi Doc,

              Thanks for chiming in...

              I do both. It's not about unsubs etc.

              Please see my previous post.

              Best.


              Originally Posted by drmani View Post

              As an email marketer, my counter-question to you, Sal, is this:

              Are you testing both approaches against each other with the same or similar list?

              If no, start. You just *might* be surprised

              All success
              Dr.Mani
              Signature
              Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
              You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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          • Profile picture of the author Christian Chan
            Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

            Now let me ask you...

            If these people actually provided quality and built a relationship with you, would you be more open to their offers?
            Hell yeah!
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
        I cannot lay claim to being the world's top email marketer by any means, so I don't have thousands of email in IM to look at stats on.

        But I do have lists in other markets, and those people come and go in a normal kind of way, no real waves of folks at any one time. In IM though, the las couple of emails I sent out were for completely free stuff Iuse almost everyday in my business. Stuff I have no affiliation with because there isn't any.

        I got more unsubscribes from thsoe than from almost any other email I have ever sent. It was very strange.

        My favorite non-IM list, I mail 6 days a week, and I get excellent CTR. I am not sending pitches every day so that probably has something to do with it. But with that list I get maybe an unsubscribe every othr week or so.

        It is an interesting thing to discuss.
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      • Profile picture of the author summer07
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        As John mentioned above, the "churn and burn" email method is defended and often recommended.

        I think it's one of the stupidest "methods" I've seen in IM. The people quickest to "burn" off the list may be folks like some posting in this thread. We do buy productd - we don't ask for refunds - and we don't tolerate email list owners who treat us like cattle. We remember who they are, too

        Seems to me you might end up with a list composed of people who are looking for freebies or think reading links to sales pages is "being an IMer".:rolleyes:
        But then there are the IM business models that the really big list holders use but don't talk much about - build a list of tens of thousands so you can lend it out to other big guns during their product launches and have them owe you when it's time for yours.

        These are also the guys who came into IM with bankrolls from other businesses, and they also buy lists (which they don't talk about,either)

        For them it really is a numbers game, and it pays.

        (Personally, I don't like that business model either, but then I'm a big fan of small businesses!)

        And speaking of small business...
        Hey, OP - Rather than passively wishing and hoping for someone to 'throw a bone' -- we're in business, right? not a J-O-B -- why not email the list owner and:
        1) see if they answer;
        2) tell them what you'd like from them;
        3) see if and how they answer;
        4) unsubscribe if they don't answer.

        I've done it, and developed a few great relationships - as well as cleaning up my email from the ones who don't respond.

        Audre
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        • Profile picture of the author sal64
          Hey to you too

          Who mentioned anything about wishing or waiting?

          The point of the OP is that I am saddened by the lack of vision shown by many in this caper.

          I couldn't give a fat rat's clacker if they throw me anything or not.

          If anything, the OP was more of a metaphor to hopefully get some people thinking about having a longer term view of their business and not some myopic bleed-em-dry approach.

          Originally Posted by summer07 View Post

          But then there are the IM business models that the really big list holders use but don't talk much about - build a list of tens of thousands so you can lend it out to other big guns during their product launches and have them owe you when it's time for yours.

          These are also the guys who came into IM with bankrolls from other businesses, and they also buy lists (which they don't talk about,either)

          For them it really is a numbers game, and it pays.

          (Personally, I don't like that business model either, but then I'm a big fan of small businesses!)

          And speaking of small business...
          Hey, OP - Rather than passively wishing and hoping for someone to 'throw a bone' -- we're in business, right? not a J-O-B -- why not email the list owner and:
          1) see if they answer;
          2) tell them what you'd like from them;
          3) see if and how they answer;
          4) unsubscribe if they don't answer.

          I've done it, and developed a few great relationships - as well as cleaning up my email from the ones who don't respond.

          Audre
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          You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Christian Chan
    I unsub from the usual suspects in the forum who sell nothing but WSO every week or so. These people are making a living off WSO forum and they are not getting my money anymore! And some of these guys use different email addresses and names to escape my Gmail filters.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    Here are the 4 reasons that unsubscribing to gurus lists will make you more money.

    1) you will stop clicking emails and watching 1 hour videos.

    2) You will stop buying that latest shiney new object.

    3) Your inbox will not fill up with crap each day.

    4) You can use the time you normally spending reading and use it to build your list and write ebooks and train your affiliates to sell your stuff. The exact stuff these gurus are doing to make you buy their stuff.

    It is a good idea to unsubscribe that will help you to take action and not get distracted any more. Then you can concentrate on stuff that is going to make you money, not get distracted, get info overloaded.

    Good ideas.
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  • Profile picture of the author danieldroga
    Same scenario here. By the way, I have to agree on your sentiments regarding that since we are definitely on the same boat.
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  • Profile picture of the author rhab
    Points well taken. There are very few marketers who truly give real value and help through lists. Let's face it, most marketers use lists to make money and will use up their list for as much as and as long as they can.

    I have a few people who I follow because they have earned my trust and customer loyalty through quality products and information. These are the men and women I will buy from. The rest if I stay subscribed is basically just to keep tabs on to see what's being released and maybe spot a gem here and there.

    In any event I don't think it comes as a surprise how lists are being used. It doesn't take long once your in the IM arena to figure it out. I would definitely agree that this contributes to the high failure rate of beginners due to the information overload and distraction of product after product.

    What really rubs me the wrong way lately is how WSO's are being constantly promoted. When that ability went live here my inbox was being blasted. Lately I've been doing a lot of canceling myself due to this fact. You buy a wso and the next thing you know you're getting emails daily about this wso or that wso. It's ridiculous!

    I'll give you an example of a marketer I would love to see more of. Lisa Parmley! I was extremely impressed with her after buying from her when she released her first wso here way back when. It was an outstanding course and still is.

    Over the time period which has probably been like two years now maybe(I'm terrible with time frames but it's been quite a while), I have only received one promotion from her about someone else's product and it was directly related and complimented her course.

    And with that promotion I received it once, not like all the usual 2,3, and 4 subsequent emails pushing it because the link in one email "didn't work", or "just in case you missed it" bs.

    Every other email had quality information and useful tips to put into action. She didn't release a dozen different products because she provided everything you needed the first time. She didn't promote a dozen different marketers and their products, because you had all you needed from her. In fact, she even provided a great case study series and as mentioned above, provided a quality blog.

    Marketers like this are rare! It's a shame you don't see more like Lisa.

    Anyway, I hear what you're saying! I don't expect anything to change, but marketer's such as yourself can do the best you can not to fall into the same boat.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fazal Mayar
    you are right, ethics are so important in IM. Send atleast emails of quality products, warrior forum is here for this reason, to analyze products of fellow IM'ers
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  • Profile picture of the author DIABL0
    I suspect that the reason they do it is because it makes more money in the long run than using the approach of sending content based messages/attempt to build rapport and then try and upsell them.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    i think the bottom line is that you cant please everyone all the time, so dont even try.

    but remember all those numbers in your AR account are real people.

    and its very important that your emails meet the expectation of your subscribers.

    one of the emails that does hit my inbox is from imnewswatch.com. its not perfect, but it gives me a daily summary of much of what is going on in the IM world.

    its a daily newsletter, its the only daily IM newsletter i get, i would almost certainly unsubscribe from most other lists that emailed me everyday, but my expectation when i got on that list was that i would get these daily updates, so the content fits perfectly with my expectations, and i am very happy subscriber.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    That's what she said.
    Alrighty, then.

    This was as funny as how I first saw this thread. I had just sent a newsletter out, dropped in here, and spotted the title. My first thought, for half a second, was "What did I do to piss Sal off?"

    So I opened it, hoping it was something new. Nope. Same thread that comes up once a week or more. Come on, guys. Let's at least be creative about our griping, eh?


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Christian Chan
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Alrighty, then.

      This was as funny as how I first saw this thread. I had just sent a newsletter out, dropped in here, and spotted the title. My first thought, for half a second, was "What did I do to piss Sal off?"

      So I opened it, hoping it was something new. Nope. Same thread that comes up once a week or more. Come on, guys. Let's at least be creative about our griping, eh?


      Paul
      Paul, your newsletter is different. It is good.
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    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      BROADLY speaking, there are 2 kinds of approaches or philosophies
      to list building and email marketing.

      1. Relationship marketing
      2. Hard-selling

      BOTH WORK.

      That's the part beginners (or even some experienced folks) have
      trouble either realizing - or accepting.

      Sure, YOU love one method over the other.

      But anyone who has tested both approaches (and I have, since
      1998 or maybe earlier) KNOW for a fact that both work very well
      indeed!

      Now, with the FIRST approach, you WANT everyone on your list.
      To build trust with them. To provide value to them. Win
      their attention, and then their loyalty. And then, you can
      sell stuff to them for a long time.

      With the SECOND approach, you ONLY WANT buyers on your list.
      And that too, only for as long as they KEEP buying. When they
      stop, you want to get them OFF your list - and with the 'right'
      approach to that strategy, it will happen (as evidenced by
      the original post on this thread).

      The 'downside' (if it is perceived that way) is that with this
      approach, you're constantly scouring the Web for new leads to
      sell to.

      But it's just a DIFFERENT kind of email marketing than the 1st
      - not any 'wronger' or 'less effective' or even 'less profitable'
      as many relationship marketing fans might believe.

      There is a legal and ethical line one doesn't want to cross with
      either style - and that's becoming a SPAMMER.

      But within legitimate limits of email marketing, understand
      there are two mutually exclusive approaches that work well -
      and pick the one you like best!

      All success
      Dr.Mani
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      • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
        You hit the nail on the head with this one.

        Method #2 gets a bad rap on this forum but that doesn't change the fact that it works for people who aggressively build their lists.

        I'm all for #2 because I enjoy spending my time generating leads.

        I know alot of folks who do #1 and their time is spent not so much on consistent lead generation but they love the relationship building stuff.

        They both work as you've said.

        #2 works better for me because I do more of what I enjoy.

        If I were some guru using method #1 then I'd fail at it because I've tried it before and it's no fun to me.

        Originally Posted by drmani View Post

        BROADLY speaking, there are 2 kinds of approaches or philosophies
        to list building and email marketing.

        1. Relationship marketing
        2. Hard-selling

        BOTH WORK.

        That's the part beginners (or even some experienced folks) have
        trouble either realizing - or accepting.

        Sure, YOU love one method over the other.

        But anyone who has tested both approaches (and I have, since
        1998 or maybe earlier) KNOW for a fact that both work very well
        indeed!

        Now, with the FIRST approach, you WANT everyone on your list.
        To build trust with them. To provide value to them. Win
        their attention, and then their loyalty. And then, you can
        sell stuff to them for a long time.

        With the SECOND approach, you ONLY WANT buyers on your list.
        And that too, only for as long as they KEEP buying. When they
        stop, you want to get them OFF your list - and with the 'right'
        approach to that strategy, it will happen (as evidenced by
        the original post on this thread).

        The 'downside' (if it is perceived that way) is that with this
        approach, you're constantly scouring the Web for new leads to
        sell to.

        But it's just a DIFFERENT kind of email marketing than the 1st
        - not any 'wronger' or 'less effective' or even 'less profitable'
        as many relationship marketing fans might believe.

        There is a legal and ethical line one doesn't want to cross with
        either style - and that's becoming a SPAMMER.

        But within legitimate limits of email marketing, understand
        there are two mutually exclusive approaches that work well -
        and pick the one you like best!

        All success
        Dr.Mani
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Who's griping?

      It's an opinion piece filled with wisdom.

      Was it not blatantly obvious?

      Heck, I even threw in some solutions and advice for good measure.

      I have feelings you know!



      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Alrighty, then.

      This was as funny as how I first saw this thread. I had just sent a newsletter out, dropped in here, and spotted the title. My first thought, for half a second, was "What did I do to piss Sal off?"

      So I opened it, hoping it was something new. Nope. Same thread that comes up once a week or more. Come on, guys. Let's at least be creative about our griping, eh?


      Paul
      Signature
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      You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Alrighty, then.

      This was as funny as how I first saw this thread. I had just sent a newsletter out, dropped in here, and spotted the title. My first thought, for half a second, was "What did I do to piss Sal off?"

      So I opened it, hoping it was something new. Nope. Same thread that comes up once a week or more. Come on, guys. Let's at least be creative about our griping, eh?


      Paul
      I am about to release some software that will have fill in the blank gripes. I have a feeling it will do well on this forum.

      Current templates include:

      I unsubscribed and this is why...
      I refuse to watch your video...
      Don't show me 20 upsells...
      I hate pop ups when leaving your site...
      We should change the wso section...
      How does wso pro work...


      Plenty more to come.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jim X
    I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. At one point I was subscribed to 10 lists. I only looked forward to opening emails from 3 people. Why? They took the time, for some strange reason, to add value and build a relationship.

    I also tend to agree with Zeus66 (John Schwartz) that you must be comfortable with how you market to your list. If you are comfortable sending (or receiving for that matter) 2-3 emails a day, then do that. I believe that you will be successful if you truly believe in what you are doing. If you believe that sending out tons of emails to your list is actually going to help, do it. You have to find what works for you.

    I just read an interesting report that talked about relationship in marketing and business. It basically said that whether you are working face to face with people or building a list on the internet, people are still people. Treat them like people and they will come back and even recommend friends.

    It also made the point that you might as well be nice to your customers because they are going to talk regardless. It's just a matter of it being positive or negative. I'd rather it be positive, but maybe thats just me.

    James
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I find that I'm ecstatic any more if I can even figure out when the heck it was I was supposed to have signed up for them. I rarely sign up for emails. When I do I really want them. What I see in my box most days are random shots at an address. I have one that goes to my spam box because I've unsubscribed twice and they keep coming. The yahoo sends probably about 3 or 4 a day. So - I just filtered him out. He's probably out bragging about his list somewhere while all his "subscribers" are filing his multi-daily zaps right into the trash can.

    Marketing is insane sometimes. If someone's list is working for them, I don't see any bitching that is going to make them worry about it.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author JennySweets
      I rarely unsubscribe. My incoming list gets bigger and bigger. But I like to study the emails you know?

      But if someone is sending me 1 or more emails EVERY DAY.. or if they are hawking pure crap... or if they don't even bother to talk to me, they just start sending me "go buy this' emails from the moment i sign up, they are gone.

      I actually enjoy reading some of them. the ones that actually try to send something useful, and generally only send 2 max emails a week, i am far more likely to buy from one of them. i know some people advocate 3 a week but i'm one of the odd ones.. if i haven't bought from the first email, i am not going to buy from the second or third.. i'm an instant kinda girl.

      i'm sure everything i just said has been said countless times hahaha
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    • Profile picture of the author SkiBum
      2 Auto Unsubs for me

      1. Subject Line: Hurry!!! Go Now!!!!

      2. Overuse of the "my good friend" phrase in sales language. Everyone seems to be such good friends during big product launches
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  • Profile picture of the author Bballer1
    Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

    Quite frankly, I've had enough of your garbage emails.

    I was on your list because I purchased something from you. This means that I trust you, I have an open mind... and an open wallet.

    But where's the love?

    How about throwing me the occasional bone that will actually help my grow my business?

    Is that all you have to offer? A barrage of marketing emails that simply ask me for more money?

    Did you ever stop to consider that if I haven't yet used the first product, I may be struggling and need some help? Did you ever stop to consider that if it doesn't work then I won't buy from you ever again.

    Do you even care? Are you about making some sales here and there or building a real, long term business?

    Maybe it's the former and you're doing ok. If so then good luck to you but don't expect me to buy from you ever again.

    What's that.. I'm talking cr@p?

    If that's your view, then consider this...

    If you're selling ongoing new products such as PLR packs: Have you considered the prospect that if I actually consume your product and make the money that you guarantee I'll make... then I'll keep coming back every time.

    But what about those customers who aren't savvy, or are newbies? Have you ever thought about setting up a blog and posting some really helpful hints and tips on a regular basis?

    Heaven forbid that you build relationships with these people. Why waste time doing that? It's easier to send out a promo email. Never mind credibility, eh?

    What about other people's products?

    Nothing like a quick % is there. But do you really think that I don't know that you're after the % and have probably never used the product? Ah well, you can fool some of the people some of the time, so all's sweet.

    You see, when I started out in IM, it was all about relationships and building trust. My income grew relative to the value I provided. Sadly, that doesn't seem to matter these days. But it sure as hell explains why there is such a churn in this industry and why over 90% fail.

    Now don't get me wrong... I am happy to hear about your latest product.

    But here's the rub...

    If you're one of the few who actually care enough to help my business grow, I'll buy from you in an instant. Heck, I even buy products from a select few even if I don't really need them. I do this because they care. Their products and communication have made a huge impact on my business. So I almost see them as family and buy their stuff simply to support THEM and return the love.

    So wake up and get a clue!

    Make the effort. Show me some love. Throw me a bone. It doesn't have to be massive... just show me that you know what you're doing and that you appreciate my business.

    So please - STOP sending me emails every 48 hours asking me to buy something.

    With the economy hanging by a thread, now is the time to really take care of your customers and create some loyalty. Sure beats pulling your hair out trying to find new customers.

    Think about it.
    My sentiments exactly.....!
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmanjack
    i don't mind the people that send 1 email a day. It is the ones that send 3 or more a day that get filtered to my spam folder.
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  • Profile picture of the author nattauhidi
    thanks for the great reminder. keeping up with and taking care of your list is important to any IM niche, and were quick to forget it sometimes
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Sal,
    Who's griping?
    Have you read the thread?


    Paul
    Signature
    .
    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Sal,Have you read the thread?


      Paul
      Ni, I only wrote it. Why the heck would I read it?

      It's sensationalist tabloid at it's best...

      I figured it would get thrown into the same basket as all the other OMG not it-one-of-those-threads again.

      But if it gets just one member thinking about their business in a different light, then it has done it's job.
      Signature
      Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
      You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    BTW - While Sal64 and I (HeySal) are in the same thread -- please check our avatars before you pm us.

    I get pm's that are obviously meant for him. But we are distinctly different as you can see if you look at both of our avatars together.

    Sal64 wears glasses, and I (HeySal) do not. I don't mind being called sir - but I'm not a 4 eyes, okay?:rolleyes:
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      BTW - While Sal64 and I (HeySal) are in the same thread -- please check our avatars before you pm us.

      I get pm's that are obviously meant for him. But we are distinctly different as you can see if you look at both of our avatars together.

      Sal64 wears glasses, and I (HeySal) do not. I don't mind being called sir - but I'm not a 4 eyes, okay?:rolleyes:
      Yeah! And I'm better looking and you're an Academic. :p

      Just kidding.
      Signature
      Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
      You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

        Yeah! And I'm better looking and you're an Academic. :p

        Just kidding.
        You should be looking better than me, you have an extra set of lenses.

        So you're blind and I'm smart and useless.........
        And if both of our names didn't mean "dirty" in French - I wouldn't be getting all your pms. :p

        I did take me awhile to figure out why people were calling me sir. Seriously. I guess people are just as careless with their individual messages as they are with their group sends. Should we maybe just assume that competence level is very low in the IM markets?
        Signature

        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

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        • Profile picture of the author sal64
          I tend to approach my business on the basis that 90% of the general population is dumb, so never take anything for granted, Sal.

          BTW, didn't know that Sal means dirty. I'm actually a Salvatore. But if the cap fits... I'll wear it.

          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          You should be looking better than me, you have an extra set of lenses.

          So you're blind and I'm smart and useless.........
          And if both of our names didn't mean "dirty" in French - I wouldn't be getting all your pms. :p

          I did take me awhile to figure out why people were calling me sir. Seriously. I guess people are just as careless with their individual messages as they are with their group sends. Should we maybe just assume that competence level is very low in the IM markets?
          Signature
          Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
          You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

            I tend to approach my business on the basis that 90% of the general population is dumb, so never take anything for granted, Sal.

            BTW, didn't know that Sal means dirty. I'm actually a Salvatore. But if the cap fits... I'll wear it.
            I'm actually Sally, too. But I go by Sal -- the way I found out was through email. I always signed them Sal. A person I sent mail and told me. I knew some french, but didn't really ever think about it before that.

            Anyhow -- this thread just reminds me of a discussion from another thread. Someone had said marketing (as related to content) was an exact science and blew chow on that statement.

            If there were really any formula for what really works well, we would all be rolling in dough right now. Even very successful marketers have a campaign flop now and again. The most we can do is test to see what is working best -- and that still means some people aren't going to respond as expected. Knowing the complete demographics helps to lessen the risk, but isn't fool-proof. Even testing isn't fool proof, but it is a good risk mitigation method.

            There's always an X factor in marketing. If you accidentally stumble on that X factor people will respond -- but it's very unlikely when someone asks you to nail down what that X factor is, the most you'll be able to do is guess. Humans do not act according to logic, so the outcome of anything dealing with them can't be 100% predicted.
            Signature

            Sal
            When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
            Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author IronRing
    Banned
    Very good points OP. I've found myself unsubscribing when they start spamming without providing any real value
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin_Hutto
    I find that even guys who preach "treat your list right" still pitch all the time. Not saying its right or wrong. But one guy talks a lot about being cool to your list, but the only time that I get something from him is when there is some sort of pitch attached. Either an affiliate offering or something of his own. The last time I got an email from someone saying "Don't Buy this..." was a couple of years ago. I still respect the guy who sent it probably more than anyone else in this business.
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Nice and valid points, especially in this economy, if folks realised the future is all about building relationships, they would realise that this is how the big firms stayed in business before the net, the same principles apply in online businesses too
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi sal64,

      The point of the OP is that I am saddened by the lack of vision shown by many in this caper.

      I couldn't give a fat rat's clacker if they throw me anything or not.

      If anything, the OP was more of a metaphor to hopefully get some people thinking about having a longer term view of their business and not some myopic bleed-em-dry approach.
      Ni, I only wrote it. Why the heck would I read it?
      I didn't miss that some of what you are saying is tongue-in-cheek, but the point that some appear to be making is that there might be something for you to learn from the thread too, if you were to read it closely - otherwise it would be a little hypocritical of you to be calling others myopic, trying to get them thinking, saying that they have a lack of vision etc.

      I see a lot of value in the opinions of those who have run lists for years and are choosing to share their findings, even if their findings suggest that if I am to be a professional and successful email marketer myself, I may have to consider sending out the kind of emails that also get my goat when they hit my inbox.

      to hopefully get some people thinking about having a longer term view of their business
      What if taking the 'longer term view' in this market was virtually a hopeless endeavour for the majority, because it is only a lucky, or gifted few who can achieve that? What if the trends are making this more prevalent?

      Do you want those who know to tell people the opposite in this thread purely because it's what you want to hear when you take the perspective of a consumer of email marketing?

      Or is it better that they just tell the truth, even if it hurts?

      These threads always polarise because they contain a mixture of 'advice' from some people answering purely as marketers and others answering purely as consumers, with a large percentage of responders totally mixing up the two perspectives and arriving at conclusions designed to compromise between the two.

      If anyone is to read the thread and get something from it, it's important to understand this and to try and differentiate between those two polar-opposites and in particular, those who mix up the two, because logically, their conclusions are likely to be the least effective - because you can't please everyone.

      From what I have observed, it's much better to adopt a specific approach and stick to it, often one that polarises your market into lovers and haters - sometimes the haters can provide free advertising and often will gleefully 'punish' you with an unsubscribe (thus removing themselves from your funnel).

      This is not as effective if you try to please everyone and most likely leads to a lack of purpose/direction/consistency from the marketer, which can often be interpreted by the whole market as a 'chameleon' approach. Perhaps it's better to be seen as a leopard.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mahara Adhe
    I hate the ones that are masked as paypal orders, affiliate commissions, or issues with an account (ATTENTION: Your Paypal Account Is Suspended.......is a message that you might get if blah blah blah). It's really getting crazy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Paule
    I usually unsubscribe if i am getting more than one email a day, and in some cases an email a day. At times i get angry that they are trying to get me to buy something, so i unsubscribe
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Paule
    I only subscribe when they send me too many emails and they are pushing to buy things all the time. it gets tiring after a while and i just do not open them anymore
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  • Profile picture of the author manzippo
    I once register Zanox and Zanox keep on sending me lot of emails, what's more, the advertiser I applied for always sending tons of emails and I reallly cannot stand receiveing hundrends of junk email in a week.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hansie koch
    I have the same view as the Author of this Thread, I build relationships with my list that I want from the person I have bought from.

    Treat the person on your list like a family member that you would like to help!
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  • Profile picture of the author YourProfessional
    I was planning on writing an article about telling my blog readers to unsubscribe ... a few days ago I went into my abandoned gmail/paypal account only to discover hundreds of emails from WSO creators.

    Wait 30 Days – How The “Unsubscribe” Button Can Make You Rich

    It is absolutely terrible how people are abusing the trust of innocent people. A lot of guru's might think: newbies should know better ... but they DO NOT. A lot of people are complete idiots when it comes to online stuff. They trust immediately, without even thinking about it.

    They need to read these sort of threads so that they become aware of it! So in my opinion Sal, keep on gripping The more people who see these types of thread - the better!
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    I think some people read too much into this.

    To paraphrase Bill Clinton: It's the customer service stupid.

    I don't know all the answers and I approach all comments with an open mind. That's the whole idea of having a discussion in the first place.

    Of course any debate will polarize... duh!

    People are going on about open rates, unsubscribe rates, content, no content... whatever.

    But you know what? All I see are people reading and seeing what they want to see.

    Of course people expect product updates if that's what you promise them. Of course people expect content if that's what you promised them.

    The problem as I see it, is that too many simply see a customer and think whoopee, here's a buyer. Let's keep pumping them so they buy some more.

    I accept that some make huge money doing it this way. If that's you, then all power to you.

    The reality in 98% of the case is that you buy something and are forced to join a list in order to get what you paid for. And then lookout.

    I cannot and dare not presume to speak for anyone on here. But from where I'm sitting, my view is that (a) too many lose sight of what's important - customer loyalty and (b) burn and churn isn't how to build a solid business.

    And frankly, I don't have an issue if you send me lots of emails. You see, the lists I belong to are all people whom I trust and respect their credibility.

    But don't spam me after I just bought a $10 report from you.

    Others think is ok, I just disagree. Just as many will disagree with me.

    Too many chasing the holy grail of traffic, leads and sales... when all the money they need is right under their noses if they take the time to look after their customers (100% bona-fide, fully qualified leads).

    To me, that's a real list. I'll take a small list of happy customers over a massive list of opt ins any day.

    For the more experienced posters on here, let's not forget that we are in a different phase with established, advanced businesses.

    As far as the noobs are concerned, my advice would be to build relationships first... and build that tribe of loyal fans.

    Problem is that when you burn a customer, you don't know who you're burning and how much that may cost you in the future. Something else to ponder.
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  • Profile picture of the author kaper7
    Very good prospective. You've got to take care of your list. Anyone who does not understand that will in due time!
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  • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
    Most of what marketers put out to their lists is just TECHNICALLY not spam because we have opted in to receive emails...

    But... for many of them... the relationship they have with their list is non-existent at best and abusive at worst.

    And I don't just mean the obvious pimping that goes on. I'm also talking about how they play us for fools.

    How many times have you gotten these emails?

    "I'm writing you again because some of you may have gotten the wrong link..."

    "I know I said yesterday was the cutoff, but 2 more seats just opened up..."

    "The demand was so high I had to make more slots available..."

    "Bob contacted me and said I could make this special offer to my list..."

    It's all about the relationship people... RESPECT YOUR LIST. Deliver them actual content from time to time... Or better yet, how bout trying delivering them mostly free content with the sales pitches coming every 1/3 of the time?

    Jeez...
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post


      It's all about the relationship people... RESPECT YOUR LIST. Deliver them actual content from time to time... Or better yet, how bout trying delivering them mostly free content with the sales pitches coming every 1/3 of the time?

      Jeez...
      There's that word: RESPECT.

      You summed up in one sentence what took me a long-assed OP to express.

      Then again, you're Vin and I'm not.
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      • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
        I never understood the "rape your list" mentality.

        Don't get me wrong... I now know why you want to write them regularly (at least a couple times a week) but why the pillaging?

        My family used to own restaurants. Many of them were successful throughout the years. To that end, my father had a great knack for customer service. He would treat his past diners just as well as the current diners. If you ate at dad's places once or twice you were treated like family. If you came regularly you were treated like gold.

        Other businesses took notice. Some patterned him... others mocked him for it.

        But... through it all... what none knew is it was based not on some deep down need to be liked... far from it. It was all based on a statistic his business partner brought him.

        For my dad's business it cost $100+ in advertising to get 1 new regular customer. $100 on a good day. More like $120 on an average day.

        So... my dad figured he could "lose" up to $80 on making a disgruntled diner happy and still come out on top.
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        • Profile picture of the author DamenRabat
          I had subscribed to the list of a new marketer, which I did not know at that time.... Next I learned was that I was getting about 4 - 5 emails every week from him in my email account.

          So, meaning to not just cut him loose, I sent him an email saying that he was kinda overdoing it with all the massive emails and asking him to tone it down some.

          Got the answer that he was in the process of building his list and therefor could not slow things down. Not the tiniest hint of understanding that he was simply overwhelming me...

          Instead he offered to unsubscribe from his list and instead join the list of his wife... who would send out way less emails than him.

          Reckless, stupid and not a glimps what successful marketing means.
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  • Profile picture of the author PatrickP
    As with weight loss, people want to get rich fast and with no effort and are willing to chase that illusion time after time.
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  • Profile picture of the author plongmire
    This is a great post, and I have to say, getting a new WSO offer everyday gets old, i suppose I should just get off the list.

    But I do have one guy who does offer great products and info, more great info than products, and I just buy what ever he sends to me. (makes him happy)...no i dont want to be on your list
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      The one I finally bothered to unsubscribe from was the gem. A promo for a new product (WSO) and below that 10 line email was a statement....

      "Here are some other great products that you may need"

      What followed was a list of about a dozen links to various WSOs on wildly varied topics. Can you say "desperation marketing"? "Please, please, please, ....buy something....anything". Not gonna happen, darlin.

      kay
      Kay, that reminds me of those "affiliate sites", now called "banner farms", where the site was nothing but one long page of affiliate banners. The theory was that once someone stumbled in, they would carefully examine the banners, pick one or more, and buy what was offered.

      Which leads me to...

      Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

      I tend to approach my business on the basis that 90% of the general population is dumb, so never take anything for granted, Sal.
      An old boss of mine used to maintain that no one ever went broke understimating the intelligence of the "general population.":rolleyes:

      As a consumer, there are three things you can do to get me to unsubscribe:

      1) Lie to me. Don't deliver what you led me to expect.
      2) Insult my intelligence.
      3) Bore me. If you're going to pitch me something, at least tell me why I should look. Endless rounds of 'check this out' with a link are both lazy and boring.
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  • Profile picture of the author PatrickP
    Couple recent subject lines as a result from WSOs from this site

    Patrick PLEASE help me!

    Did you see what they said about you?
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    • Profile picture of the author azmanar
      Hi,

      Some friends in this thread mentioned about getting unsubscribed after sending FREE CONTENT, FREE OFFERS and etc. I think, it has got to do with the COPY.

      Here's an example, which I've been receiving a lot lately. I instantly unsubscribed and filtered it as spam.
      ---------------------------------------------
      Hi,

      I was just sent this private download link
      and told that I could share it with my elite
      members only:

      >> Get Instant Access

      This lets you download an underground app
      that siphons traffic from websites and funnels
      commissions into your personal accounts.

      It's seriously ground breaking stuff.

      Go and download it right away!

      Enjoy this,
      ------------------------------------------

      Such copy is very deceptive to me and gets on my nerves.

      And recently, I've been getting more spams from IM'ers. I suspect my email address was being shared after buying some WSOs.
      Signature
      === >>> Tomorrow Should Be Better Than Today

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  • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
    [QUOTE=sal64;4584509]Quite frankly, I've had enough of your garbage emails.

    I was on your list because I purchased something from you. This means that I trust you, I have an open mind... and an open wallet.

    But where's the love?

    QUOTE]

    Thank you sal64,

    Nicely said.

    I have posted a couple of times regarding the advantages of having a SMALL list that is taken care of. So, I'll take this as another opportunity to point this out to younger, newer folks who are discovering "the money is in the list".

    In 1998 I made the very conscious decision I didn't want any list over 2500 people. Although I have several different lists, most don't even approach that number.

    Some of my customers have been on my list for over a decade. A large percent of them are multiple buyers. Their lifetime value to me has been tremendous.

    But, they don't get slammed with offers. NEVER have offered an affiliate to my customers, if they spend money from what I tell them to spend money on...it is directly with me.

    I give away free reports and offer special ALERTS to the lists, as relevant and fresh information appears.

    I also ask them to provide me with links and content, which gets passed on and they are CREDITED with the find...some like this, others prefer to remain anonymous.

    Consider one of my lists...and these numbers are just for example...consider that I could have 350 people on my list...and they have subscribed to one of my monthly HOTSHEETS...for 10 bux a month. Consider that these same people stay on the list year after year after year.

    See? It doesn't take HUGE numbers or it doesn't take hawking to your list, or MILKING it for every penny.

    It does take, some LOVE. As sal64 sez.

    If you don't ABUSE your customers, and respect them and provide quality content and the occassional can't refuse offer...they will stay with you.

    Some become friends. Colleagues. Business Associates.

    NOOBS. Newbies. New people to marketing...SLOW DOWN. Consider a long range strategy, quit trying to make money and start trying to give people some quality...

    and don't abuse them...

    and you don't need millions of customers...nor even thousands...

    but a few LOYAL customers who remain on your list for decades.

    Consider the year 2021. Won't you enjoy getting paid a decade from now because you took the time TODAY to do right with your customers?

    gjabiz
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  • Profile picture of the author colby65
    Great points - really important to look after your customers and relentless/non-relevant emails drive people away. Much better to be looking to create win-win relationships with them rather than promoting crap
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  • Profile picture of the author Marc Jager
    Like several people have posted, my number one reason for unsubscribing seems to always be the same thing - TOO MANY E-MAILS!
    Personally, any more than 1 per week, is too much for me.
    I'm too lazy to unsubscribe if you send me 2 per week.... but if you're sending me 3 per week, you're gone!
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    I'd rather be disliked for who I am than liked for who I am not.

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  • Profile picture of the author andynathan
    I just wish some marketers would ask for my info prior to emailing me. I get on more lists that I never subscribed to than possibly imaginable!
    Signature

    Delighfully Inexpensive: The Scientific Formula For Profitable Blogging takes you step-by-step into how to create mind-blowing content that inspires your readers to learn more about your services.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rick Britton
      I am in the "it's time to unsubscribe from some lists" camp

      I go through the emails and decide based on quality and frequency whether it is worth staying on the list.

      A couple marketers that I remain on the list for are:

      1. James Scholes: entertaining, good freebies that are actually useful and not too many promos. I find him quite inspirational. Young British guy. Has his own folder in my gmail. Like your style fella

      2. Cedric Aubry: infrequent emails, lots of value, open everything he sends

      Seem to have the formula down for me (both have survived 2 culls)
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  • Profile picture of the author angiedc
    Being a newbie, I have joined a number of lists via various freebies and WSO offers. I have one email account that I use when signing up for these things. I do check it, but not daily. I'll scroll through the offers about once a week to see if there is anything of value. I can say that I consider most of what I receive from most of these lists is basically spam in my opinion. I can count on one hand the number of people who have consistently sent me valuable tips or new offers and I have purchased from a couple of those folks again.

    Some people email waaay too much and that alone will get an automatic delete because I when I log in I see that the first 10 messages are from one person. From the small number of these messages that I've actually ever read, they were shameless promotions.

    I will say this, there was someone's list that I was on who emailed me about once a week and always provided something valuable (i.e. a marketing piece and easy to implement plan in that particular niche - not make money online) in each message. I felt that his content was so incredibly valuable that I bought every thing that he ever sold. Every time he put out a newsletter, new training, a book, etc. I bought it. Not because he blew my email box up, but because he always over delivered on the things that he gave away for free, so I always believed that whatever he was selling was going to be equally valuable, if not more so.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rick Britton
      Originally Posted by angiedc View Post

      Being a newbie, I have joined a number of lists via various freebies and WSO offers. I have one email account that I use when signing up for these things. I do check it, but not daily. I'll scroll through the offers about once a week to see if there is anything of value. I can say that I consider most of what I receive from most of these lists is basically spam in my opinion. I can count on one hand the number of people who have consistently sent me valuable tips or new offers and I have purchased from a couple of those folks again.

      Some people email waaay too much and that alone will get an automatic delete because I when I log in I see that the first 10 messages are from one person. From the small number of these messages that I've actually ever read, they were shameless promotions.

      I will say this, there was someone's list that I was on who emailed me about once a week and always provided something valuable (i.e. a marketing piece and easy to implement plan in that particular niche - not make money online) in each message. I felt that his content was so incredibly valuable that I bought every thing that he ever sold. Every time he put out a newsletter, new training, a book, etc. I bought it. Not because he blew my email box up, but because he always over delivered on the things that he gave away for free, so I always believed that whatever he was selling was going to be equally valuable, if not more so.

      who was that then?
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      • Profile picture of the author angiedc
        His name is Jason Hanson and he primarily was involved in real estate investing at the time. I'm not sure if he's still actively involved in real estate. It appears that he's taken up some new interests that don't match my own....but his real estate info was outstanding!
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  • Profile picture of the author Media Man
    I personally never send my list members anything that isn't mine. I use a once a week email strategy. So each month that I send 4 emails I try to do 3 emails that give good information and 1 email per month that is actually selling something.

    Now maybe this isn't a great strategy for some, but I find that more people actually read my emails. I even get at least 3-4 good back and fourth discussions going with my members after each email.

    It helps build credibility that I'm not just plugging emails into an Awebber account and letting loose. I don't know why some people keep thinking that spamming your buyers is the smart way to go. These are people that have already put down their hard earned money to purchase something from you - take extra care of them.
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      I am with you 100% on this approach.

      Good work. Being an authority is underrated.

      Originally Posted by Media Man View Post

      I personally never send my list members anything that isn't mine. I use a once a week email strategy. So each month that I send 4 emails I try to do 3 emails that give good information and 1 email per month that is actually selling something.

      Now maybe this isn't a great strategy for some, but I find that more people actually read my emails. I even get at least 3-4 good back and fourth discussions going with my members after each email.

      It helps build credibility that I'm not just plugging emails into an Awebber account and letting loose. I don't know why some people keep thinking that spamming your buyers is the smart way to go. These are people that have already put down their hard earned money to purchase something from you - take extra care of them.
      Signature
      Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
      You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alan Ashwood
      Originally Posted by Media Man View Post

      I personally never send my list members anything that isn't mine. I use a once a week email strategy. So each month that I send 4 emails I try to do 3 emails that give good information and 1 email per month that is actually selling something.
      Now maybe this isn't a great strategy for some, but I find that more people actually read my emails. I even get at least 3-4 good back and forth discussions going with my members after each email.
      It helps build credibility that I'm not just plugging emails into an Aweber account and letting loose.
      I don't know why some people keep thinking that spamming your buyers is the smart way to go. These are people that have already put down their hard earned money to purchase something from you - take extra care of them.
      This seems perfectly sensible to me. You're not blitzing out daily (or twice daily) nonsense, so you avoid being intrusive; you're communicating good information, so people are more like to WANT to read your messages; you're getting feedback, so it is working. Congratulations.

      Why did I unsubscribe from your list?
      • "This is specially for you only" (And hundreds of others)
      • "Closing tonight" (I'm in the UK, so it's probably closed);
      • "Specially for my valued sibscribers in Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol, wherever ...." (You need to get your database working properly, I don't live in any of these);
      • "Check this out" or "Get this now" (No)
      • "I saw this and thought of you" (No, you didn't, you don't know me);
      • "This is awesome" (I can't stand the overuse of the word awesome - look it up)

      and many more.

      I also unsubscribe if I receive more than one email in any given day from the same person. If you couldn't get your information out in one email, don't send me another.

      What are your favourites?

      Alan

      .
      Signature
      Now where did I put that pencil?

      Time for a cuppa.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alminc
        I feel most irritated by subject lines that end with 'open!'.

        Because I'm the kind of person who hates commands, my
        immediate raction is 'Fu#&k you!!!' and DELETE!

        If you want me to open your email you must ask me nicely,
        commanding me to do it is a big No-No
        Signature
        No links :)
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Alan, you forgot the classic "Go, Go, GO!!!!!"

        Okay, I'm gone - and so is your email and my subscription.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alan Ashwood
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          Alan, you forgot the classic "Go, Go, GO!!!!!"

          Okay, I'm gone - and so is your email and my subscription.
          That bl**dy fish must be rank by now!

          But my best fishing buddy just created this awesome program just for you.

          Sounds fishy to me.
          Signature
          Now where did I put that pencil?

          Time for a cuppa.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rick Britton
    Anything that says "Invoice Paid" or "I've already paid for you" or "your account is open" gets an instant unsubscribe and mark as spam
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author londoncoffee
    I know how you feel. I too got suckered into buying a few ebooks and joining lists and my inbox was maxed every morning. Took ages going through them and eventually noticed there's about 1% of stuff worth looking at. The rest is just regurgitated crap. I'll never buy another ebook from here after being stung twice. Yes, i fell for the sales copy, the idea that i was buying a secret, or even a book that might have more content than the text on the back of a box of weetabix. And i fell for the great reviews - obviously very close pals of the sellers!! I wouldn't dare sell such rubbish in here for fear of being lynched. But heck! Some well respected members here are the culprits. I still say, this forum will suffer if more rubbish proliferates. The Forum Owners have every right to make revenue, but there should be some policing, and scam crap ebooks and video course offers should be vetted first.
    I don't bother with flippa.com anymore. Its been infested with scam web masters selling rubbish and they're on the increase. An apple rotting from the core will look fine on the surface - for a while.
    Come on WF! Get harsh on scammers or lose members.
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  • Profile picture of the author RobinInTexas
    Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

    Quite frankly, I've had enough of your garbage emails.

    I was on your list because I purchased something from you. This means that I trust you, I have an open mind... and an open wallet.

    But where's the love?

    How about throwing me the occasional bone that will actually help my grow my business?

    Is that all you have to offer? A barrage of marketing emails that simply ask me for more money?

    Did you ever stop to consider that if I haven't yet used the first product, I may be struggling and need some help? Did you ever stop to consider that if it doesn't work then I won't buy from you ever again.

    Do you even care? Are you about making some sales here and there or building a real, long term business?

    Maybe it's the former and you're doing ok. If so then good luck to you but don't expect me to buy from you ever again.

    What's that.. I'm talking cr@p?
    --------X-----snip---------X---------


    This might be a little off topic, but this thread prompted me to look at my inbox a little closer just to see how much crap I need to unsubscribe from.

    I have my gmail set to display 50 messages, and here's what I culled from the first page:
    1. Earn While You Learn? - Did you get a chance to watch the video I sent yesterday?
    2. Last Chance - Epic Launch, Commissions & Prizes? - This is a No-Brainer, and an All Hearter
    3. Important That YOU Watch This Today the online world is about to change in ways that most...
    4. WOW...83.3% conversions?? - This is one of the boldest claims I have heard in a long time
    5. Sorry... I didn't mean to make you jealous. ? - Hey, What a reaction to yesterday's email
    6. Weekend Interrupting Traffic!? - Hey, I just scored you early access to something...
    7. Warren Buffett... backlinks?? - Easily get "rich" backlinks on autopilot. It's all explained for you, right here
    8. Please Watch This Video A lot of my online friends with internet marketing businesses are banging their heads
    9. CLIENTS of $1,247 with 'Done For You' Videos...? [WHERE]? - How would you like to get $1247 checks from every client...
    10. The Best Advice I Ever Received? - Every person that I know encounters problems and challenges that, at times, can feel...
    11. Re: $99 to $299 for each of these VIRGIN videos...? [HOW]? How would you like to profit from the easiest OFFLINE method for making EMERGENCY cash
    12. Early Access to traffic automation software, open ASAP? I hope your weekend is off to a nice start. Just real quick, you can get early access
    13. Dominate ClickBank In DAYS? - Hey, This system is crazy, you'll be shocked at how easy it is to cash in on ClickBank ...
    14. Invitation to the SIX FIGURE club? - Hi, In the past few days, I've shown you three things... 1. You need to do things ...
    15. [DIMESALE] For Less Than A Fancy Coffee, You Can Earn From...? - the first of the "major holiday" sales this season.
    I guess it's time to do a bunch of "unsubs" to a bunch of automated lists that I probably never should have ever looked at in the first place. 30% pure trash is a waste of what were perfectly good electrons on Saturday night.
    Signature

    Robin



    ...Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just set there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Selmicro
    Sal,

    I agree with your feelings and have a special place under my thumb for those who pass your email around to their buds or even worse sell it,e specially when they say they won't.

    However, I handle it differently. I generally do not unsubscribe from those lists.

    I know, your going to say that is stupid... but think about it...

    The basic premise that it costs nothing to mail out thousands of email is absolutely wrong. Just look into using any of the services like Aweber and you will see that as the list grows, it gets expensive.

    We actually operate our own email marketing server and while we don't pay the exorbitant fees the services charge, it is still expensive. Recetnly we jsut upgraded from a dual core dedicated server with 2GB ram to a quad core dedicated server with 16GB ram and 1TB Raid 10. The reason was basic performance.

    On the old server it was taking us almost two weeks to do 1 complete mailing to our list...

    On the new server we can do 1 complete mailing in less than 1 day. yes, it is a huge list, all double optin, but we thank those who unsubscribe if they no longer have an interested in what we provide.

    Why you ask, well its simple. Over the 7+ years since we started this list, we have had over 1.5 million subscribers come and go and the current active list is over 300,000. If we still had to deliver to everyone who had ever signed up, it would still take most of a week just to send one message out and we would still have people complaining bout not hearing about something until many days after their friends got the message.... and that really pisses people off...

    Anyway, the long and short of it is DON'T unsubscribe, simply tag the message source as SPAM either in your email program, your anti-spam program or if you operate your own servers on your servers and simply dump those messages as they come in.

    If they are using a "service" they are paying for all that mail being dumped into the Spam Can by you. With Aweber, it costs $130 per 10,000 at that rate, a list of 300,000 would cost $3,900 per month.

    Now I realize they would discount this large an order, but the point is eMail marketing isn't free. It costs actual dollars to send messages, it costs actual dollars for the hardware and software to send messages or it costs actual dollars to use a mailing service.

    If you are getting bombarded by junk that you have no interest in, that you can't get to go away, that you perhaps never signed up for, etc. then forget unsubscribing, just set your anti-spam program to simply dump it. If nothing else you will slow down how fast they can cycle their mailings by keeping the number up.

    In like manner, do unsubscribe if you no longer wish content from the legitimate emailers that you know you signed up for. After all fair is fair. If you signed up you should respect them enough to unsubscribe.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeanne Lovely
    I just love the post. I have been getting so many affiliate promotion emails these days it is getting ridiculous. How many "good friends" do these people really have LOL Their only friend is the greenback and if they keep up with these marketing tactics they may not even have that.
    I got an email the other day from a well known affiliate marketer who claimed her "good friend" could show me some things I may be interested in - the videos she was promoting were in German, I bet she never even looked at the product. Makes us all look bad.
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      ROFL - that's too funny.

      Maybe it had an upsell to the English version?

      Yes the old friend line is a bit tiresome.

      But it must work to some degree. Or are marketers just sheeple?

      I must admit that I do pay attention to John Reese's emails. Very sporadic and usually affiliate recommendations, but he does craft a great email.

      Definitely ideal for the swipe file.

      Originally Posted by Jeanne Lovely View Post

      I just love the post. I have been getting so many affiliate promotion emails these days it is getting ridiculous. How many "good friends" do these people really have LOL Their only friend is the greenback and if they keep up with these marketing tactics they may not even have that.
      I got an email the other day from a well known affiliate marketer who claimed her "good friend" could show me some things I may be interested in - the videos she was promoting were in German, I bet she never even looked at the product. Makes us all look bad.
      Signature
      Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
      You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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  • Profile picture of the author WhyGuy
    What I find amusing is all the list owners who send the exact same email that's provided by the person launching their 'next great moneymaking' product. On launch day, I have at least 10 emails from different people saying the same thing.

    Have they even looked at the product they're trying to sell? If they personalized their pitch I'm sure they would have better response.
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    • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
      Originally Posted by WhyGuy View Post

      What I find amusing is all the list owners who send the exact same email that's provided by the person launching their 'next great moneymaking' product. On launch day, I have at least 10 emails from different people saying the same thing.

      Have they even looked at the product they're trying to sell? If they personalized their pitch I'm sure they would have better response.
      that is a great point.. I have seen major big-name marketers just copy/paste during a launch.

      While I always rewrite them myself, it did teach me that this stuff is far from being rocket science..
      Signature

      -Jason

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      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        Since when does common sense have anything to do with it?

        Originally Posted by jasonl70 View Post

        that is a great point.. I have seen major big-name marketers just copy/paste during a launch.

        While I always rewrite them myself, it did teach me that this stuff is far from being rocket science..
        Signature
        Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
        You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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