I Just Unsubscribed From YOUR List! Here's Why...

by 129 replies
179
Quite frankly, I've had enough of your garbage emails.

I was on your list because I purchased something from you. This means that I trust you, I have an open mind... and an open wallet.

But where's the love?

How about throwing me the occasional bone that will actually help my grow my business?

Is that all you have to offer? A barrage of marketing emails that simply ask me for more money?

Did you ever stop to consider that if I haven't yet used the first product, I may be struggling and need some help? Did you ever stop to consider that if it doesn't work then I won't buy from you ever again.

Do you even care? Are you about making some sales here and there or building a real, long term business?

Maybe it's the former and you're doing ok. If so then good luck to you but don't expect me to buy from you ever again.

What's that.. I'm talking cr@p?

If that's your view, then consider this...

If you're selling ongoing new products such as PLR packs: Have you considered the prospect that if I actually consume your product and make the money that you guarantee I'll make... then I'll keep coming back every time.

But what about those customers who aren't savvy, or are newbies? Have you ever thought about setting up a blog and posting some really helpful hints and tips on a regular basis?

Heaven forbid that you build relationships with these people. Why waste time doing that? It's easier to send out a promo email. Never mind credibility, eh?

What about other people's products?

Nothing like a quick % is there. But do you really think that I don't know that you're after the % and have probably never used the product? Ah well, you can fool some of the people some of the time, so all's sweet.

You see, when I started out in IM, it was all about relationships and building trust. My income grew relative to the value I provided. Sadly, that doesn't seem to matter these days. But it sure as hell explains why there is such a churn in this industry and why over 90% fail.

Now don't get me wrong... I am happy to hear about your latest product.

But here's the rub...

If you're one of the few who actually care enough to help my business grow, I'll buy from you in an instant. Heck, I even buy products from a select few even if I don't really need them. I do this because they care. Their products and communication have made a huge impact on my business. So I almost see them as family and buy their stuff simply to support THEM and return the love.

So wake up and get a clue!

Make the effort. Show me some love. Throw me a bone. It doesn't have to be massive... just show me that you know what you're doing and that you appreciate my business.

So please - STOP sending me emails every 48 hours asking me to buy something.



With the economy hanging by a thread, now is the time to really take care of your customers and create some loyalty. Sure beats pulling your hair out trying to find new customers.

Think about it.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #list #unsubscribed
  • Hey, I luv ya... but you didn't buy any of my products, LOL
    • [1] reply
    • I'm not on your list.
  • Well if you see posts of guys who send lots of follow up emails they will tell you that if people do NOT unsubscribe they are not sending out enough.

    Sounds like the person who was sending you the emails succeeded.
    • [2] replies
    • Jeez, Sal, quit candy coating things and tell us how you really feel... ( )
      • [ 1 ] Thanks

    • Succeeded in what actually?

      Pissing me off?

      Of course their argument helps them justify their logic and approach.

      Reality is that people on your list mean squat. Most will forget you within weeks if not days.

      But consider the following...

      If you make the effort to deliver value on a regular basis, you are keeping your name above the noise and building rapport. This to me has been the cornerstone of my success.

      Don't get me wrong. I promote as well. But I get better conversions when I promote to my little family of raving fans.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • [DELETED]

  • The people slamming you with offers generally don't care if you unsubscribe. You are just a number to them.

    Taking time to post messages to an autoresponder that will actually help you with your business takes time, effort and work.

    Most of the people slamming you with offers did not create a mailing list to help other people, so the last thing on their mind is doing any kind of actual work to help you.

    I have always made it a point to unsub anyone who did not know or care what was in an offer's sales page, for an offer they were promoting. If their little pitch contradicts the sales page, I am outta there... Would you be surprised if I told you that I unsub from a ton of marketer's lists for this reason?

    Yesterday, one of our fellow warriors sent a shady email to me.

    It said in the subject line, something to the effect of "Thank you for subscribing to...."

    Inside the email, it said in effect, "Thank you for your purchase. To get your free bonuses, we need you to verify your email address. Click here to verify..."

    I haven't bought anything from that guy since I got on his list 12 months ago, and I already have his bonuses that were due to me for my original purchase.

    His mail yesterday was designed to get me on someone's mailing list, by emulating double opt-in.

    I was pissed because:

    1. It was deceptive; and
    2. He was probably trying to sell my address to someone else.
    • [ 9 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Was this an adswap? or a promo in disguise?

      I actually had to do this yesterday as I imported my list into a new autoresponder... If it was me - I apologize - that's what happened... It was not "emulating" double opt-in but truly double opt-in... (or reconfirming after import)

      If your not talking about me - guess I should shut up :p

      But I do agree with the part where you told Sal that the marketer sending those emails doesn't care and is just a number and doubt they read the messages you leave when you unsub...

      Seems to be a common thing - especially for the clickbank launches and it seems that a lot of "that" is now spilling over into our beloved forum...

      Just unsub and hit em where it hurts
      • [2] replies
  • I have to applaud the sentiment... I get (from 2 people/companies, no less!) the same "type" of email

    Subject: {You won't believe this|This is crazy|My jaw DROPPED!} (or some other outrageous opener)

    Body:
    {No Way!|Check this out!|This guy's KILLIN IT!|You've gotta see this...}
    (some short-link)

    Thanks,
    ---

    (and no, it doesn't arrive that way, I'm just tired of a 1-liner subject and body trying to entice me to click.)
    • [1] reply
    • I feel your pain.

      The point of this thread isn't a biatchfest about emails... more of a tried and true approach to building a long term sustainable business.


  • i am actually on 527 internet marketing emails lists at this point. i know the exact number because i use a filter in gmail to make sure they never hit my inbox but go into a special folder.

    if i ever have an issue or need a product to solve an issue (usually a software) i use the search function, and can usually find a solutions.

    i also use these emails as a swipe file from time to time for inspiration.

    i always wonder how many ways to make 100k in the next 30 days people think i need. if you ever ask one of these people that, you usually get a pretty nasty reply.

    btw. i have built up my massive list of optins over 15 years or so.
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    • If your subscribers are just like you, then probably no one is reading your email.
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  • This might not win me any friends, but that's OK. I've got my flying monkeys.

    You're just not going to please everyone no matter what you do with your list. Like Tina mentioned, even the most altruistic and generous emails you'll ever send will get you some unsubscribers. So where does that leave you?

    I say do what your instincts tell you. If you really pay attention, your mind is probably giving you the obvious answer: stop worrying about it and do what you think is best. I mean what you REALLY think is best, not what you've read or heard or whatever. You ultimately want to make money from your list, right? That's pretty much the one universal constant. So you have to try to get them to buy something eventually. If you let yourself get all tangled up in unsubscribe numbers and the occasional negative feedback, you'll get gun shy and stop altogether. Where's that leave you? Bunch of wasted time building a list, that's where.

    I say find your OWN comfort zone and do what you think is truly best. No matter what you do, it's going to make some people on your list unhappy. So be it.

    John
    • [ 14 ] Thanks
  • I actually did do that.

    Yep, I sell PLR websites but I have a whole site dedicated to showing the buyers how they can get traffic to those sites.

    It's all free and shows them free methods.

    I even have a case study that shows them exactly what I did to a PLR blog to get it ranked and earning.

    In the setup guide for the blogs, I practically beg people to go visit the site so they can make money with their blogs too.

    I took me tens of hours to make that site. Maybe even hundreds.

    Guess what?

    Practically no one goes there.

    Lee
    • [ 5 ] Thanks
  • Kay, not that I would do that in my business, but it can work. It comes down to how fast you can replace the flood of unsubscribers such tactics inevitably produce. If you have a great system in place for driving lots of traffic and your squeeze page converts nicely, you can "afford" to lose a ton of opt-outs from heavy marketing like that. And you'll make money doing it.

    But here's the thing about such "churn and burn" tactics.... it burns bridges. It's short-sighted because a lot of those people will remember what you did. You might make more money faster, but at what cost to your personal branding and, therefore, your long-term viability?

    John
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    • [1] reply
    • nail-hammer-head.
  • I have unsubscribed from a bunch of lists lately. The ones left are the
    people who have sold me a good product, added value to my business
    and built a relationship over a period of time. Just looking at my email
    now and there are about 10 more that need to go.

    Thomas
  • i think the first post says it all!! good effort!!
  • Although I can't agree with the PLR example (it's a list designed to notify people of new PLR products available - you know this when you sign on) I do agree with the general sentiments that are p***** the OP off.

    I recently had a barrage of emails from someone that I have been a subscriber for for years. After a 3 month absence they returned to my in-box sporadically with new offers blah blah. Being the long -term subscriber I decided to give the person a chance to reconnect with their audience - like they used to.

    I got the expected standard reply from the assistant - we like it, it converts, unsubscribe if you like, see ya.

    When I went to unsubscribe from the next email I saw that the person had got all spiffy about my comments, called me a few things and even included my name in the broadcast sent out to their list.

    Ironically the product that they were promoting was for reputation management - now why would you need that?

    • [1] reply
    • Now that's just plain rude and possibly illegal, depending on whether that person has a privacy policy in place.
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  • Banned
    That's what she said.
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  • I stay subscribed as long I get something worthwhile every few emails. I don't expect to be tutored in these emails, but a steady stream of nothing but ads will cause me to unsubscribe.
    • [1] reply
    • As John mentioned above, the "churn and burn" email method is defended and often recommended.

      I think it's one of the stupidest "methods" I've seen in IM. The people quickest to "burn" off the list may be folks like some posting in this thread. We do buy productd - we don't ask for refunds - and we don't tolerate email list owners who treat us like cattle. We remember who they are, too

      Seems to me you might end up with a list composed of people who are looking for freebies or think reading links to sales pages is "being an IMer".:rolleyes:
      • [ 5 ] Thanks
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  • I unsub from the usual suspects in the forum who sell nothing but WSO every week or so. These people are making a living off WSO forum and they are not getting my money anymore! And some of these guys use different email addresses and names to escape my Gmail filters.
  • Here are the 4 reasons that unsubscribing to gurus lists will make you more money.

    1) you will stop clicking emails and watching 1 hour videos.

    2) You will stop buying that latest shiney new object.

    3) Your inbox will not fill up with crap each day.

    4) You can use the time you normally spending reading and use it to build your list and write ebooks and train your affiliates to sell your stuff. The exact stuff these gurus are doing to make you buy their stuff.

    It is a good idea to unsubscribe that will help you to take action and not get distracted any more. Then you can concentrate on stuff that is going to make you money, not get distracted, get info overloaded.

    Good ideas.
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
  • Same scenario here. By the way, I have to agree on your sentiments regarding that since we are definitely on the same boat.
  • Points well taken. There are very few marketers who truly give real value and help through lists. Let's face it, most marketers use lists to make money and will use up their list for as much as and as long as they can.

    I have a few people who I follow because they have earned my trust and customer loyalty through quality products and information. These are the men and women I will buy from. The rest if I stay subscribed is basically just to keep tabs on to see what's being released and maybe spot a gem here and there.

    In any event I don't think it comes as a surprise how lists are being used. It doesn't take long once your in the IM arena to figure it out. I would definitely agree that this contributes to the high failure rate of beginners due to the information overload and distraction of product after product.

    What really rubs me the wrong way lately is how WSO's are being constantly promoted. When that ability went live here my inbox was being blasted. Lately I've been doing a lot of canceling myself due to this fact. You buy a wso and the next thing you know you're getting emails daily about this wso or that wso. It's ridiculous!

    I'll give you an example of a marketer I would love to see more of. Lisa Parmley! I was extremely impressed with her after buying from her when she released her first wso here way back when. It was an outstanding course and still is.

    Over the time period which has probably been like two years now maybe(I'm terrible with time frames but it's been quite a while), I have only received one promotion from her about someone else's product and it was directly related and complimented her course.

    And with that promotion I received it once, not like all the usual 2,3, and 4 subsequent emails pushing it because the link in one email "didn't work", or "just in case you missed it" bs.

    Every other email had quality information and useful tips to put into action. She didn't release a dozen different products because she provided everything you needed the first time. She didn't promote a dozen different marketers and their products, because you had all you needed from her. In fact, she even provided a great case study series and as mentioned above, provided a quality blog.

    Marketers like this are rare! It's a shame you don't see more like Lisa.

    Anyway, I hear what you're saying! I don't expect anything to change, but marketer's such as yourself can do the best you can not to fall into the same boat.
  • you are right, ethics are so important in IM. Send atleast emails of quality products, warrior forum is here for this reason, to analyze products of fellow IM'ers
  • I suspect that the reason they do it is because it makes more money in the long run than using the approach of sending content based messages/attempt to build rapport and then try and upsell them.
  • i think the bottom line is that you cant please everyone all the time, so dont even try.

    but remember all those numbers in your AR account are real people.

    and its very important that your emails meet the expectation of your subscribers.

    one of the emails that does hit my inbox is from imnewswatch.com. its not perfect, but it gives me a daily summary of much of what is going on in the IM world.

    its a daily newsletter, its the only daily IM newsletter i get, i would almost certainly unsubscribe from most other lists that emailed me everyday, but my expectation when i got on that list was that i would get these daily updates, so the content fits perfectly with my expectations, and i am very happy subscriber.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Alrighty, then.

    This was as funny as how I first saw this thread. I had just sent a newsletter out, dropped in here, and spotted the title. My first thought, for half a second, was "What did I do to piss Sal off?"

    So I opened it, hoping it was something new. Nope. Same thread that comes up once a week or more. Come on, guys. Let's at least be creative about our griping, eh?


    Paul
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
    • [4] replies
    • Paul, your newsletter is different. It is good.
    • BROADLY speaking, there are 2 kinds of approaches or philosophies
      to list building and email marketing.

      1. Relationship marketing
      2. Hard-selling

      BOTH WORK.

      That's the part beginners (or even some experienced folks) have
      trouble either realizing - or accepting.

      Sure, YOU love one method over the other.

      But anyone who has tested both approaches (and I have, since
      1998 or maybe earlier) KNOW for a fact that both work very well
      indeed!

      Now, with the FIRST approach, you WANT everyone on your list.
      To build trust with them. To provide value to them. Win
      their attention, and then their loyalty. And then, you can
      sell stuff to them for a long time.

      With the SECOND approach, you ONLY WANT buyers on your list.
      And that too, only for as long as they KEEP buying. When they
      stop, you want to get them OFF your list - and with the 'right'
      approach to that strategy, it will happen (as evidenced by
      the original post on this thread).

      The 'downside' (if it is perceived that way) is that with this
      approach, you're constantly scouring the Web for new leads to
      sell to.

      But it's just a DIFFERENT kind of email marketing than the 1st
      - not any 'wronger' or 'less effective' or even 'less profitable'
      as many relationship marketing fans might believe.

      There is a legal and ethical line one doesn't want to cross with
      either style - and that's becoming a SPAMMER.

      But within legitimate limits of email marketing, understand
      there are two mutually exclusive approaches that work well -
      and pick the one you like best!

      All success
      Dr.Mani
      • [ 14 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
    • Who's griping?

      It's an opinion piece filled with wisdom.

      Was it not blatantly obvious?

      Heck, I even threw in some solutions and advice for good measure.

      I have feelings you know!



    • Banned
      I am about to release some software that will have fill in the blank gripes. I have a feeling it will do well on this forum.

      Current templates include:

      I unsubscribed and this is why...
      I refuse to watch your video...
      Don't show me 20 upsells...
      I hate pop ups when leaving your site...
      We should change the wso section...
      How does wso pro work...


      Plenty more to come.
  • I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. At one point I was subscribed to 10 lists. I only looked forward to opening emails from 3 people. Why? They took the time, for some strange reason, to add value and build a relationship.

    I also tend to agree with Zeus66 (John Schwartz) that you must be comfortable with how you market to your list. If you are comfortable sending (or receiving for that matter) 2-3 emails a day, then do that. I believe that you will be successful if you truly believe in what you are doing. If you believe that sending out tons of emails to your list is actually going to help, do it. You have to find what works for you.

    I just read an interesting report that talked about relationship in marketing and business. It basically said that whether you are working face to face with people or building a list on the internet, people are still people. Treat them like people and they will come back and even recommend friends.

    It also made the point that you might as well be nice to your customers because they are going to talk regardless. It's just a matter of it being positive or negative. I'd rather it be positive, but maybe thats just me.

    James
  • I find that I'm ecstatic any more if I can even figure out when the heck it was I was supposed to have signed up for them. I rarely sign up for emails. When I do I really want them. What I see in my box most days are random shots at an address. I have one that goes to my spam box because I've unsubscribed twice and they keep coming. The yahoo sends probably about 3 or 4 a day. So - I just filtered him out. He's probably out bragging about his list somewhere while all his "subscribers" are filing his multi-daily zaps right into the trash can.

    Marketing is insane sometimes. If someone's list is working for them, I don't see any bitching that is going to make them worry about it.
    • [ 3 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • I rarely unsubscribe. My incoming list gets bigger and bigger. But I like to study the emails you know?

      But if someone is sending me 1 or more emails EVERY DAY.. or if they are hawking pure crap... or if they don't even bother to talk to me, they just start sending me "go buy this' emails from the moment i sign up, they are gone.

      I actually enjoy reading some of them. the ones that actually try to send something useful, and generally only send 2 max emails a week, i am far more likely to buy from one of them. i know some people advocate 3 a week but i'm one of the odd ones.. if i haven't bought from the first email, i am not going to buy from the second or third.. i'm an instant kinda girl.

      i'm sure everything i just said has been said countless times hahaha
    • 2 Auto Unsubs for me

      1. Subject Line: Hurry!!! Go Now!!!!

      2. Overuse of the "my good friend" phrase in sales language. Everyone seems to be such good friends during big product launches
  • My sentiments exactly.....!
  • i don't mind the people that send 1 email a day. It is the ones that send 3 or more a day that get filtered to my spam folder.
  • thanks for the great reminder. keeping up with and taking care of your list is important to any IM niche, and were quick to forget it sometimes
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Sal,Have you read the thread?


    Paul
    • [1] reply
    • Ni, I only wrote it. Why the heck would I read it?

      It's sensationalist tabloid at it's best...

      I figured it would get thrown into the same basket as all the other OMG not it-one-of-those-threads again.

      But if it gets just one member thinking about their business in a different light, then it has done it's job.
  • BTW - While Sal64 and I (HeySal) are in the same thread -- please check our avatars before you pm us.

    I get pm's that are obviously meant for him. But we are distinctly different as you can see if you look at both of our avatars together.

    Sal64 wears glasses, and I (HeySal) do not. I don't mind being called sir - but I'm not a 4 eyes, okay?:rolleyes:
    • [1] reply
    • Yeah! And I'm better looking and you're an Academic. :p

      Just kidding.
      • [1] reply
  • I have been getting a lot of promotional products into my spam
  • [DELETED]
  • Banned
    Very good points OP. I've found myself unsubscribing when they start spamming without providing any real value
  • I find that even guys who preach "treat your list right" still pitch all the time. Not saying its right or wrong. But one guy talks a lot about being cool to your list, but the only time that I get something from him is when there is some sort of pitch attached. Either an affiliate offering or something of his own. The last time I got an email from someone saying "Don't Buy this..." was a couple of years ago. I still respect the guy who sent it probably more than anyone else in this business.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Nice and valid points, especially in this economy, if folks realised the future is all about building relationships, they would realise that this is how the big firms stayed in business before the net, the same principles apply in online businesses too
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    • [1] reply
    • Hi sal64,

      I didn't miss that some of what you are saying is tongue-in-cheek, but the point that some appear to be making is that there might be something for you to learn from the thread too, if you were to read it closely - otherwise it would be a little hypocritical of you to be calling others myopic, trying to get them thinking, saying that they have a lack of vision etc.

      I see a lot of value in the opinions of those who have run lists for years and are choosing to share their findings, even if their findings suggest that if I am to be a professional and successful email marketer myself, I may have to consider sending out the kind of emails that also get my goat when they hit my inbox.

      What if taking the 'longer term view' in this market was virtually a hopeless endeavour for the majority, because it is only a lucky, or gifted few who can achieve that? What if the trends are making this more prevalent?

      Do you want those who know to tell people the opposite in this thread purely because it's what you want to hear when you take the perspective of a consumer of email marketing?

      Or is it better that they just tell the truth, even if it hurts?

      These threads always polarise because they contain a mixture of 'advice' from some people answering purely as marketers and others answering purely as consumers, with a large percentage of responders totally mixing up the two perspectives and arriving at conclusions designed to compromise between the two.

      If anyone is to read the thread and get something from it, it's important to understand this and to try and differentiate between those two polar-opposites and in particular, those who mix up the two, because logically, their conclusions are likely to be the least effective - because you can't please everyone.

      From what I have observed, it's much better to adopt a specific approach and stick to it, often one that polarises your market into lovers and haters - sometimes the haters can provide free advertising and often will gleefully 'punish' you with an unsubscribe (thus removing themselves from your funnel).

      This is not as effective if you try to please everyone and most likely leads to a lack of purpose/direction/consistency from the marketer, which can often be interpreted by the whole market as a 'chameleon' approach. Perhaps it's better to be seen as a leopard.
      • [ 3 ] Thanks
  • I hate the ones that are masked as paypal orders, affiliate commissions, or issues with an account (ATTENTION: Your Paypal Account Is Suspended.......is a message that you might get if blah blah blah). It's really getting crazy.
  • I usually unsubscribe if i am getting more than one email a day, and in some cases an email a day. At times i get angry that they are trying to get me to buy something, so i unsubscribe
  • I only subscribe when they send me too many emails and they are pushing to buy things all the time. it gets tiring after a while and i just do not open them anymore
  • I once register Zanox and Zanox keep on sending me lot of emails, what's more, the advertiser I applied for always sending tons of emails and I reallly cannot stand receiveing hundrends of junk email in a week.
  • I have the same view as the Author of this Thread, I build relationships with my list that I want from the person I have bought from.

    Treat the person on your list like a family member that you would like to help!
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • I was planning on writing an article about telling my blog readers to unsubscribe ... a few days ago I went into my abandoned gmail/paypal account only to discover hundreds of emails from WSO creators.

    Wait 30 Days – How The “Unsubscribe” Button Can Make You Rich

    It is absolutely terrible how people are abusing the trust of innocent people. A lot of guru's might think: newbies should know better ... but they DO NOT. A lot of people are complete idiots when it comes to online stuff. They trust immediately, without even thinking about it.

    They need to read these sort of threads so that they become aware of it! So in my opinion Sal, keep on gripping The more people who see these types of thread - the better!
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • I think some people read too much into this.

    To paraphrase Bill Clinton: It's the customer service stupid.

    I don't know all the answers and I approach all comments with an open mind. That's the whole idea of having a discussion in the first place.

    Of course any debate will polarize... duh!

    People are going on about open rates, unsubscribe rates, content, no content... whatever.

    But you know what? All I see are people reading and seeing what they want to see.

    Of course people expect product updates if that's what you promise them. Of course people expect content if that's what you promised them.

    The problem as I see it, is that too many simply see a customer and think whoopee, here's a buyer. Let's keep pumping them so they buy some more.

    I accept that some make huge money doing it this way. If that's you, then all power to you.

    The reality in 98% of the case is that you buy something and are forced to join a list in order to get what you paid for. And then lookout.

    I cannot and dare not presume to speak for anyone on here. But from where I'm sitting, my view is that (a) too many lose sight of what's important - customer loyalty and (b) burn and churn isn't how to build a solid business.

    And frankly, I don't have an issue if you send me lots of emails. You see, the lists I belong to are all people whom I trust and respect their credibility.

    But don't spam me after I just bought a $10 report from you.

    Others think is ok, I just disagree. Just as many will disagree with me.

    Too many chasing the holy grail of traffic, leads and sales... when all the money they need is right under their noses if they take the time to look after their customers (100% bona-fide, fully qualified leads).

    To me, that's a real list. I'll take a small list of happy customers over a massive list of opt ins any day.

    For the more experienced posters on here, let's not forget that we are in a different phase with established, advanced businesses.

    As far as the noobs are concerned, my advice would be to build relationships first... and build that tribe of loyal fans.

    Problem is that when you burn a customer, you don't know who you're burning and how much that may cost you in the future. Something else to ponder.
  • Very good prospective. You've got to take care of your list. Anyone who does not understand that will in due time!
  • Most of what marketers put out to their lists is just TECHNICALLY not spam because we have opted in to receive emails...

    But... for many of them... the relationship they have with their list is non-existent at best and abusive at worst.

    And I don't just mean the obvious pimping that goes on. I'm also talking about how they play us for fools.

    How many times have you gotten these emails?

    "I'm writing you again because some of you may have gotten the wrong link..."

    "I know I said yesterday was the cutoff, but 2 more seats just opened up..."

    "The demand was so high I had to make more slots available..."

    "Bob contacted me and said I could make this special offer to my list..."

    It's all about the relationship people... RESPECT YOUR LIST. Deliver them actual content from time to time... Or better yet, how bout trying delivering them mostly free content with the sales pitches coming every 1/3 of the time?

    Jeez...
    • [ 3 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • There's that word: RESPECT.

      You summed up in one sentence what took me a long-assed OP to express.

      Then again, you're Vin and I'm not.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • As with weight loss, people want to get rich fast and with no effort and are willing to chase that illusion time after time.
  • This is a great post, and I have to say, getting a new WSO offer everyday gets old, i suppose I should just get off the list.

    But I do have one guy who does offer great products and info, more great info than products, and I just buy what ever he sends to me. (makes him happy)...no i dont want to be on your list
    • [1] reply
    • Kay, that reminds me of those "affiliate sites", now called "banner farms", where the site was nothing but one long page of affiliate banners. The theory was that once someone stumbled in, they would carefully examine the banners, pick one or more, and buy what was offered.

      Which leads me to...

      An old boss of mine used to maintain that no one ever went broke understimating the intelligence of the "general population.":rolleyes:

      As a consumer, there are three things you can do to get me to unsubscribe:

      1) Lie to me. Don't deliver what you led me to expect.
      2) Insult my intelligence.
      3) Bore me. If you're going to pitch me something, at least tell me why I should look. Endless rounds of 'check this out' with a link are both lazy and boring.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Couple recent subject lines as a result from WSOs from this site

    Patrick PLEASE help me!

    Did you see what they said about you?
    • [1] reply
    • Hi,

      Some friends in this thread mentioned about getting unsubscribed after sending FREE CONTENT, FREE OFFERS and etc. I think, it has got to do with the COPY.

      Here's an example, which I've been receiving a lot lately. I instantly unsubscribed and filtered it as spam.
      ---------------------------------------------
      Hi,

      I was just sent this private download link
      and told that I could share it with my elite
      members only:

      >> Get Instant Access

      This lets you download an underground app
      that siphons traffic from websites and funnels
      commissions into your personal accounts.

      It's seriously ground breaking stuff.

      Go and download it right away!

      Enjoy this,
      ------------------------------------------

      Such copy is very deceptive to me and gets on my nerves.

      And recently, I've been getting more spams from IM'ers. I suspect my email address was being shared after buying some WSOs.
  • [QUOTE=sal64;4584509]Quite frankly, I've had enough of your garbage emails.

    I was on your list because I purchased something from you. This means that I trust you, I have an open mind... and an open wallet.

    But where's the love?

    QUOTE]

    Thank you sal64,

    Nicely said.

    I have posted a couple of times regarding the advantages of having a SMALL list that is taken care of. So, I'll take this as another opportunity to point this out to younger, newer folks who are discovering "the money is in the list".

    In 1998 I made the very conscious decision I didn't want any list over 2500 people. Although I have several different lists, most don't even approach that number.

    Some of my customers have been on my list for over a decade. A large percent of them are multiple buyers. Their lifetime value to me has been tremendous.

    But, they don't get slammed with offers. NEVER have offered an affiliate to my customers, if they spend money from what I tell them to spend money on...it is directly with me.

    I give away free reports and offer special ALERTS to the lists, as relevant and fresh information appears.

    I also ask them to provide me with links and content, which gets passed on and they are CREDITED with the find...some like this, others prefer to remain anonymous.

    Consider one of my lists...and these numbers are just for example...consider that I could have 350 people on my list...and they have subscribed to one of my monthly HOTSHEETS...for 10 bux a month. Consider that these same people stay on the list year after year after year.

    See? It doesn't take HUGE numbers or it doesn't take hawking to your list, or MILKING it for every penny.

    It does take, some LOVE. As sal64 sez.

    If you don't ABUSE your customers, and respect them and provide quality content and the occassional can't refuse offer...they will stay with you.

    Some become friends. Colleagues. Business Associates.

    NOOBS. Newbies. New people to marketing...SLOW DOWN. Consider a long range strategy, quit trying to make money and start trying to give people some quality...

    and don't abuse them...

    and you don't need millions of customers...nor even thousands...

    but a few LOYAL customers who remain on your list for decades.

    Consider the year 2021. Won't you enjoy getting paid a decade from now because you took the time TODAY to do right with your customers?

    gjabiz
  • Great points - really important to look after your customers and relentless/non-relevant emails drive people away. Much better to be looking to create win-win relationships with them rather than promoting crap
  • Like several people have posted, my number one reason for unsubscribing seems to always be the same thing - TOO MANY E-MAILS!
    Personally, any more than 1 per week, is too much for me.
    I'm too lazy to unsubscribe if you send me 2 per week.... but if you're sending me 3 per week, you're gone!
  • I just wish some marketers would ask for my info prior to emailing me. I get on more lists that I never subscribed to than possibly imaginable!
    • [1] reply
    • I am in the "it's time to unsubscribe from some lists" camp

      I go through the emails and decide based on quality and frequency whether it is worth staying on the list.

      A couple marketers that I remain on the list for are:

      1. James Scholes: entertaining, good freebies that are actually useful and not too many promos. I find him quite inspirational. Young British guy. Has his own folder in my gmail. Like your style fella

      2. Cedric Aubry: infrequent emails, lots of value, open everything he sends

      Seem to have the formula down for me (both have survived 2 culls)
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Being a newbie, I have joined a number of lists via various freebies and WSO offers. I have one email account that I use when signing up for these things. I do check it, but not daily. I'll scroll through the offers about once a week to see if there is anything of value. I can say that I consider most of what I receive from most of these lists is basically spam in my opinion. I can count on one hand the number of people who have consistently sent me valuable tips or new offers and I have purchased from a couple of those folks again.

    Some people email waaay too much and that alone will get an automatic delete because I when I log in I see that the first 10 messages are from one person. From the small number of these messages that I've actually ever read, they were shameless promotions.

    I will say this, there was someone's list that I was on who emailed me about once a week and always provided something valuable (i.e. a marketing piece and easy to implement plan in that particular niche - not make money online) in each message. I felt that his content was so incredibly valuable that I bought every thing that he ever sold. Every time he put out a newsletter, new training, a book, etc. I bought it. Not because he blew my email box up, but because he always over delivered on the things that he gave away for free, so I always believed that whatever he was selling was going to be equally valuable, if not more so.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
  • I personally never send my list members anything that isn't mine. I use a once a week email strategy. So each month that I send 4 emails I try to do 3 emails that give good information and 1 email per month that is actually selling something.

    Now maybe this isn't a great strategy for some, but I find that more people actually read my emails. I even get at least 3-4 good back and fourth discussions going with my members after each email.

    It helps build credibility that I'm not just plugging emails into an Awebber account and letting loose. I don't know why some people keep thinking that spamming your buyers is the smart way to go. These are people that have already put down their hard earned money to purchase something from you - take extra care of them.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • I am with you 100% on this approach.

      Good work. Being an authority is underrated.

    • This seems perfectly sensible to me. You're not blitzing out daily (or twice daily) nonsense, so you avoid being intrusive; you're communicating good information, so people are more like to WANT to read your messages; you're getting feedback, so it is working. Congratulations.

      Why did I unsubscribe from your list?
      • "This is specially for you only" (And hundreds of others)
      • "Closing tonight" (I'm in the UK, so it's probably closed);
      • "Specially for my valued sibscribers in Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol, wherever ...." (You need to get your database working properly, I don't live in any of these);
      • "Check this out" or "Get this now" (No)
      • "I saw this and thought of you" (No, you didn't, you don't know me);
      • "This is awesome" (I can't stand the overuse of the word awesome - look it up)

      and many more.

      I also unsubscribe if I receive more than one email in any given day from the same person. If you couldn't get your information out in one email, don't send me another.

      What are your favourites?

      Alan

      .
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [2] replies
  • Anything that says "Invoice Paid" or "I've already paid for you" or "your account is open" gets an instant unsubscribe and mark as spam
  • I know how you feel. I too got suckered into buying a few ebooks and joining lists and my inbox was maxed every morning. Took ages going through them and eventually noticed there's about 1% of stuff worth looking at. The rest is just regurgitated crap. I'll never buy another ebook from here after being stung twice. Yes, i fell for the sales copy, the idea that i was buying a secret, or even a book that might have more content than the text on the back of a box of weetabix. And i fell for the great reviews - obviously very close pals of the sellers!! I wouldn't dare sell such rubbish in here for fear of being lynched. But heck! Some well respected members here are the culprits. I still say, this forum will suffer if more rubbish proliferates. The Forum Owners have every right to make revenue, but there should be some policing, and scam crap ebooks and video course offers should be vetted first.
    I don't bother with flippa.com anymore. Its been infested with scam web masters selling rubbish and they're on the increase. An apple rotting from the core will look fine on the surface - for a while.
    Come on WF! Get harsh on scammers or lose members.


  • This might be a little off topic, but this thread prompted me to look at my inbox a little closer just to see how much crap I need to unsubscribe from.

    I have my gmail set to display 50 messages, and here's what I culled from the first page:
    1. Earn While You Learn? - Did you get a chance to watch the video I sent yesterday?
    2. Last Chance - Epic Launch, Commissions & Prizes? - This is a No-Brainer, and an All Hearter
    3. Important That YOU Watch This Today the online world is about to change in ways that most...
    4. WOW...83.3% conversions?? - This is one of the boldest claims I have heard in a long time
    5. Sorry... I didn't mean to make you jealous. ? - Hey, What a reaction to yesterday's email
    6. Weekend Interrupting Traffic!? - Hey, I just scored you early access to something...
    7. Warren Buffett... backlinks?? - Easily get "rich" backlinks on autopilot. It's all explained for you, right here
    8. Please Watch This Video A lot of my online friends with internet marketing businesses are banging their heads
    9. CLIENTS of $1,247 with 'Done For You' Videos...? [WHERE]? - How would you like to get $1247 checks from every client...
    10. The Best Advice I Ever Received? - Every person that I know encounters problems and challenges that, at times, can feel...
    11. Re: $99 to $299 for each of these VIRGIN videos...? [HOW]? How would you like to profit from the easiest OFFLINE method for making EMERGENCY cash
    12. Early Access to traffic automation software, open ASAP? I hope your weekend is off to a nice start. Just real quick, you can get early access
    13. Dominate ClickBank In DAYS? - Hey, This system is crazy, you'll be shocked at how easy it is to cash in on ClickBank ...
    14. Invitation to the SIX FIGURE club? - Hi, In the past few days, I've shown you three things... 1. You need to do things ...
    15. [DIMESALE] For Less Than A Fancy Coffee, You Can Earn From...? - the first of the "major holiday" sales this season.
    I guess it's time to do a bunch of "unsubs" to a bunch of automated lists that I probably never should have ever looked at in the first place. 30% pure trash is a waste of what were perfectly good electrons on Saturday night.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Sal,

    I agree with your feelings and have a special place under my thumb for those who pass your email around to their buds or even worse sell it,e specially when they say they won't.

    However, I handle it differently. I generally do not unsubscribe from those lists.

    I know, your going to say that is stupid... but think about it...

    The basic premise that it costs nothing to mail out thousands of email is absolutely wrong. Just look into using any of the services like Aweber and you will see that as the list grows, it gets expensive.

    We actually operate our own email marketing server and while we don't pay the exorbitant fees the services charge, it is still expensive. Recetnly we jsut upgraded from a dual core dedicated server with 2GB ram to a quad core dedicated server with 16GB ram and 1TB Raid 10. The reason was basic performance.

    On the old server it was taking us almost two weeks to do 1 complete mailing to our list...

    On the new server we can do 1 complete mailing in less than 1 day. yes, it is a huge list, all double optin, but we thank those who unsubscribe if they no longer have an interested in what we provide.

    Why you ask, well its simple. Over the 7+ years since we started this list, we have had over 1.5 million subscribers come and go and the current active list is over 300,000. If we still had to deliver to everyone who had ever signed up, it would still take most of a week just to send one message out and we would still have people complaining bout not hearing about something until many days after their friends got the message.... and that really pisses people off...

    Anyway, the long and short of it is DON'T unsubscribe, simply tag the message source as SPAM either in your email program, your anti-spam program or if you operate your own servers on your servers and simply dump those messages as they come in.

    If they are using a "service" they are paying for all that mail being dumped into the Spam Can by you. With Aweber, it costs $130 per 10,000 at that rate, a list of 300,000 would cost $3,900 per month.

    Now I realize they would discount this large an order, but the point is eMail marketing isn't free. It costs actual dollars to send messages, it costs actual dollars for the hardware and software to send messages or it costs actual dollars to use a mailing service.

    If you are getting bombarded by junk that you have no interest in, that you can't get to go away, that you perhaps never signed up for, etc. then forget unsubscribing, just set your anti-spam program to simply dump it. If nothing else you will slow down how fast they can cycle their mailings by keeping the number up.

    In like manner, do unsubscribe if you no longer wish content from the legitimate emailers that you know you signed up for. After all fair is fair. If you signed up you should respect them enough to unsubscribe.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • I just love the post. I have been getting so many affiliate promotion emails these days it is getting ridiculous. How many "good friends" do these people really have LOL Their only friend is the greenback and if they keep up with these marketing tactics they may not even have that.
    I got an email the other day from a well known affiliate marketer who claimed her "good friend" could show me some things I may be interested in - the videos she was promoting were in German, I bet she never even looked at the product. Makes us all look bad.
    • [1] reply
    • ROFL - that's too funny.

      Maybe it had an upsell to the English version?

      Yes the old friend line is a bit tiresome.

      But it must work to some degree. Or are marketers just sheeple?

      I must admit that I do pay attention to John Reese's emails. Very sporadic and usually affiliate recommendations, but he does craft a great email.

      Definitely ideal for the swipe file.

  • What I find amusing is all the list owners who send the exact same email that's provided by the person launching their 'next great moneymaking' product. On launch day, I have at least 10 emails from different people saying the same thing.

    Have they even looked at the product they're trying to sell? If they personalized their pitch I'm sure they would have better response.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • that is a great point.. I have seen major big-name marketers just copy/paste during a launch.

      While I always rewrite them myself, it did teach me that this stuff is far from being rocket science..
      • [1] reply
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