It's NOT the List; It's NOT the Relationship with the List; It's...

Wow, awesome thread man. There are just tons of people that keep spamming with affiliate links to other products - never provide any value.

They should read this

Shawn.

Great read buddy,almost 90% of the lists I have joined ended up being a headache,just dumping useless info in my inbox however,the few gems I have stumbled upon are the ones I look forward to reading and it's no coincidence they are the lists of some of the biggest players in the game

I like it.

There are some people you need to pay attention to, that's for sure.

I have some guys who do send out offers a majority of the time, but they have my attention because they are always suggesting good products and I know they can put their money where their mouths are and can walk the walk.

I like to stay on the lists of guys who also have success in lots of other areas besides IM.

But that's just me. The key is, are you connecting and keeping the attention of the majority of those on your list? And even further, are you keeping the attention of the people who trust you and who will do business with you?

I think we've all got things to learn in this area, at least I do...

awesome thread but isn't that it's the relation that brings the attention.
without a good relationship, you won't get the good attention

Agreed! It's always "implied" but rarely explained fully.

This is the logical application of building your relationship with your list.

This is how you convert buyers to repeat buyers, even rabid fans.

This is the "secret" between a few hundred or a few thousand dollars in sales, and your next level.

Great post!

Definitely agree, so much as to have been paying AWeber for nearly 5 months, as I acquire the proper knowledge to do just that.

I had 'collected' maybe 25 subscribers in a short time, but I quickly realized that I had no freaking clue what to do with them afterwards?...because my entire idea of a sales funnel was so bleak, that in all honesty and absolution; I didn't feel worthy enough to be an authority to their needs!

Honestly, as I approach my 6th month having a "stale" AWeber account, I finally feel to be ready to start establishing campaigns, follow-ups, and be much more specific to understanding my 'prospects' needs, wants, and desires.

Truthfully, there is so much psychology to uncover concerning proper marketing practices, that it took me a minute to realize; "What compels (or would compel) me to subscribe to a list?" -and more importantly continue to open emails knowing; there's a product, offer, or pre-sell attached.

Naturally, I spent a great deal of time 'reflecting' on 'reverse engineering' some of the purchases I have made, and How those 'few' marketer's keep my interest, trust, and loyalty to stay subscribed. (Mind you, I did this with little spending as I studied)...but it wasn't for the freebies either!

Few were able to really do this, while some possess that 'hyptnotic' right on time mindset. I can't count how many times I said. "Ah, I got all I could learn from this person" and right as I felt to be developing a broader understanding, their emails seemed to be growing with me!

(*Note: It also revealed what a GURU JV Offer was all about, and 'what' I don't want to become!)

I personally hope to master (or a least be decent) at such a trait to provide quality information, solutions, and assistance.

In the end, I think it boils down to having a measure of 'empathy', whereby, You (the list-builder) have to understand what compels your subscribers interests?, desires?, needs?, and mindset?

Master the ability to know what they need before they do, and of course provide quality solutions to such needs, and the sky is the limit!

All week I have been determined to nail down which 'ideas' to build upon. I admit; I have abandoned preying on the unsuspecting w/ MMO reviews, and bogus 1-click garbage!

To me, the money takes a back seat to being well-prepared, and confident 'when' my efforts truly begin to build my subscribers, I will be ready to serve them accordingly.

"A King In Servant's Clothes", if you will. (A book I started writing, and have yet to finish BTW)

That said, I do not exactly want 45 minute phone conversations with the little ol' lady who doesn't know what an auto responder is, but just bought a squeeze page template from me...LOL

*This actually happened, the lady has been trying to learn IM'ing for 3 years...I couldn't sell her anything else, as I realized, her needs were beyond my ability to solve her problem. (*I almost gave her her money back...the whole $19.95)

Perhaps, it was the best thing that could've ever happened to me, as I swore next time, I would be the authority, have the solution, and made me 'pause' to reevaluate what it was I was trying to build!

In the end, I (like many here) hope to become a quality information provider, in such... that there is little room for question, as the delivery system will be accompanied by a solid knowledge over the subject of their interest.

As I said in another post earlier, "Know Your Audience!" and in 'targeting' specific niches, I think I'm finally ready to start that list. A good feeling indeed!

Who knows... maybe I'm wrong, as a pen name and a I don't give a F@#K attitude almost seemed to be winning in my mail boxes, at least if short-term money is your main focus.

Sorry for carrying on, bit over tired, and caffeine'd out

Art

Great post.. I also started a thread like that "The Money Is In The List". All responded that it is in the relationship with the list. But I don't see any sales now..

While I totally agree with you, I'd still argue that Attention is a result of the Relationship with your list: No relationship = no attention, so we're kinda arguing semantics here.

What matters is whether they open your emails or not, and that's only achieved if they see you as a valuable source of information. Provide value, establish a good name among your subscribers, and they will open your emails and click on your links. As simple as that.

I always unsubscribe from a list as soon as I feel like I'm being treated as a potential sale.
I know that's the whole point of lists, to make the list owner money, but if you're not willing to at least care a little and get on a personal level with me - then I ain't interested.
If I want to be sold to, I'll walk the tourist areas of Bali (seriously, that's intense ).

-Aidan.

For sure, having the ATTENTION of your list is an important
first step.

However, you can get and maintain the attention of
your list by giving them lots of great content - but that
doesn't necessarily translate into them developing the
habit of regularly buying from you (or buying your affiliate
offers).

Attention is just the first step in the marketing process
(A.I.D.A - Attention, Interest, Desire and Action).

The money is really made in converting the ATTENTION
of your list into profitable ACTIONS - like buying something!

The money is in the behavior of your list.

Do they buy - or do they not buy?

Dedicated to mutual success,

Shaun

This is fabulous advice, Dr. Mani: "So, it's NOT just the list, it's NOT just the relationship with your list, it's the ATTENTION you have (or don't have) of your audience that matters most."

Then Shaun brings it all the way home with:
"The money is really made in converting the ATTENTION
of your list into profitable ACTIONS - like buying something!

The money is in the behavior of your list.

Do they buy - or do they not buy?"

I've been suffering from a bit of 'list shame' because I've got a tiny list and I'm never quite sure what to do with it. I've been working on developing a relationship, now I need to get attention from them and convert that attention into the Action of whipping out the credit card.

Thanks. ;-)

I would agree with this. There are people that I'm sure are sending me great content, but I never open their emails. Honestly some of them I have no CLUE who they are or how I got on their list.

personally, i think it has a lot to do with the expectations your subscribers have of what you and and what they expect to be getting in their inbox.

i have run review product lists, and they responded very well when i sent out an email saying i had reviewed and compared 3 new products. the click through rates were off the charts.

but when i sent them other emails, they were not nearly as interested.

then you get into those summary newsletters. imnewswatch.com is a great example of one of those. they rarely promote anything via email, but when they do, i dont pay much attention to it. i am not on that list to get product recommendations. i joined that list to get summaries of much of what is going on in the IM world.

when you get into freebies lists or lists created with ads swaps or giveaway promotions you have to understand why that person joined in order to provide them with content they will be happy with. thats not to say you cant sell them stuff, but they clearly joined your list to get free stuff, and they probably want more free stuff. give them a lot of what they want and fewer promotions and in my experience you do better.

then there are the coveted customer lists. these are the buyers, but they dont want to be pitched on everything under the sun. this is the list to really try to build relationships with. these are they people who will put money in your bank account, and you should be spending a big chunk of your time making sure these guys are happy.

to me, you have to understand why the person is on whatever list they are on. once you do that, its much easier to meet their expectations.

It's good advice that. Only thing is - I know people who's banking hard just by mailing offer after offer.

However I'd rather go the "providing quality content" route like I always have.

James Scholes

Btw... Killer headline... Made me curious enough to find out more ;-)

James Scholes

Nice post doc.

I don't like most opinions lately on this forum about email marketing because they give no reason why.

I at least know your insight comes from experience of making money in mind... Not just trying to look like a swell guy or whatever other reason they have for their opinions.

I agree... And in my experience it is more and more difficult to keep people's attention for a long period of time - no matter how good your content actually is. At some point people get so inundated that even the emails they want to read go into a someday folder. So, don't assume that because you have someone's attention today that you will have it 6 months from now.

I just unsubscribed from your list! lol...

Just kidding.

Here's how I see it:

If you bombard free subscribers with offers every 2nd day, then you reap what you sow.

If you want to convert free subscribers into paying customers, deliver vale and what you promised them. Build some sort of relationship with the few who actually open your email. The rest don't matter because they were never interested anyway.

If you want to build a business, then build a list of paying customers and treat them like gold.

While in there is some truth in what you have said , I am sorry Dr Mani but i am going to politely disagree . The money is not the attention you get from the list.The money is in the value you build from the relationship in the list..

Relationship is about helping people. If you get my attention , don't help me . you can pretty much guess what i am going to do next . If you focus on the attention and you do not focus on the value you bring to the relationship . you end up not making enough money . If you deliver enough value to the relationship you are building , you are going almost going to get the attention form your list .

Excellent post Brother - I would honestly "Thank You" if my account was old enough to allow the button to show up, unfortunately it doesn't right now.

IMHO - Notice how your clients and customers will be "PAYING" attention

A3*

Edit - Strange enough, just after I posted this the "thanks" button started showing up, must have a 5 post minimum on it and this was my 5th post - so I clicked it

That is all true BUT you always have to consider that most people get a lot of emails. They tend to open only the ones that interest them, so your headline has to be really amazing but not misleading which is my pet hate and I will unsubscribe really fast. I think its wiser to focus on not annoying them first and all that other stuff next.

There is some great diversity in and throughout this thread!

Bare with me here....I'm gonna get a bit transparent (naked) in my philosophies

While I agree with drmani in response to being oneself; "of" being "real" as opposed to being fake or trying to be something you are not... that really only applies to how you see yourself, not how others perceive you!

I am an 8th grade drop out. The world preconceives me as a failure (for the most part) on a scalable social platform. The 'invisigle' scales by which we weigh each other.

Yet I pursue knowledge like a mad scientist, go figure!

Point being...there remains an ever-growing and ever-changing process taking place here.

Quite often we ourselves are exactly the opposite of [who?] or [what?] it is we are... or "intend" to become, as is so with many email subscribers/prospective buyers.

(ex: overweight people seek to be skinny. Financially oppressed people seek financial relief or increase, etc...)

Hence, "Who we really are" is ever-changing and evolving... as is our pursuit for knowledge, true happiness, and freedom...for these of themselves become a moving obsession (for lack of better words.)

From the "perspective" of the recipient (our prospects) I believe being the "inspiration" - the "encourager" - the "authority" - the "resolution" (to see) is symbolic to our overall results, and how we 'funnel' or 'compel' their perceptions.

***Another words, it's more often than not... the subscriber doesn't care one ounce about "Us" or "Who We Are"...they want, desire, need, and demand results for themselves!

Hence, whether we are willing to admit or accept it, it is our job and responsibility to provide that which 'the subscriber' desires, needs, wants, and essentially demands!

Doing so builds credibility, respect, loyalty, and....SALES!

Naturally, keep it real, we do this to earn money and free ourselves... but there too, one must remove oneself (to a degree) to understand, even empathize for the "subscriber's" needs, wants, and desires. (*as theirs are ever-changing as well.)

*Ever notice how successful musicians/artists seemingly know exactly what it's like to be poor, yet relish in millions for playing on their audiences perceptions, and perceived reality of who the artist was, where he came from...so on an so forth!

There remains a 'silent touch' which people feel...and react.

We are inspired...translation;"influenced to believe" we too can emulate or achieve similar success. And we can, "IF" we understand the process, and believe in ourselves.

*This is why those "evil *******s" sending out all those "get rich over night emails" have 1-2 Million dollars launches with NO real means to back it up after delivery!

I recommend using the same psychology for ethical practices, followed with quality products as it takes the same effort and maintains the integrity of the whole...unlike the 'predator's who use this for quick money schemes.

In order to fully captivate our audience, and maintain their attention in a world full of distraction, like on the internet, we must "flow like water" and be ever-changing and willing to do, be, or present ourselves in such a way that we are "viewed" as their #1 source, a silent friend, guide, mentor, teacher, and ultimately the "compass" to navigate their journey!

This is where psychology comes into play. The raw basics of "selling" or marketing ourselves as I prefer to call it, requires we possess the ability to capitalize on the "prospects" perceptions, and mobilize our efforts to to direct their focus, their actions, and their footsteps to gravitate to a successful and ethical outcome we are providing.

By compelling them to let us "in essence" lead them to their needs, wants, and plainly speaking; their self-gratifying desired outcome(s)... we then succeed at our own!

...Remember: We, like our prospects are all seeking similar self-interests at the end of the day... which explains why we have gathered here today...

Thus, providing value and more importantly; results in a non-bias form and by "keeping it real" translates into..."Feed the Masses"without prejudice, or some megalomaniac mindset... Yet be the chief chef who knows how to serve just the right amount of flavor and spice.

Naturally, like with an email headline, having a neon sign screaming; "All You Can Eat Buffet" makes it a bit harder to know who is a vegatarian and those who seek meat!

So, aside from philosophy, the numbers are important as is fine tuning your audience's interests.

Know what they want, desire, or need before they do! (*This is NOT limited to email subscribers or any niche!)

Learn to flavor the taste buds of their hunger, and deliver digestible "bite size" pieces that leave them hungering for more.

However, at the end of the day...

It boils down to psychologically "influencing" the prospect's "perception" of Who We Are, "What We Are Offering" and our mastering the ability to 'compel' them to:

A.) Trust their own "perception" of Who We Are!
B.) Enrich their lives (be it money, health, knowledge, etc...) Hence, provide viable solutions, so they benefit from our offerings.
C.) Maintain Loyalty, as prospects they Follow Us.*Requiring us to be the "Eyes" which guides them to the solution of their needs, desires, or hunger.

Another words, we persuade them to believe; there is value in exploring the path we have presented, and NEVER should we let that journey abruptly end!

I could go on for days, but the reality is simple...

99.9% of our "Prospects" do NOT give a HOOT about Who We Really Are! (?)

A 12 year old kid can sell a million copies of a relationship eBook online, and never had his 1st kiss! *Think about it!

I made these mistakes offline time and time again, the minute the transition went from business into a so-called friendship, all hell broke loose, and the focus blindly ignored the fact, the only relationship was that of self-interest, growth, and selfish gratification.

Welcome to Earth!

...Hell, half of us cannot nor likely ever will define "who we really are", let alone keep up with the changes we undergo trying to determine that answer for ourselves, as we pursue our 'perception' of freedom.

The List is merely a 'reflection' of our ability to compel others to explore our offerings.

Follow-ups & Broadcasts are maps to determine where they should go next!

Conversions/Sales determines how well we mastered the "Art of Persuasion!

Learn to lead, but first research where your followers (*your list) wants to go?

If they want scale mountains... equip them with the knowledge, tools, and confidence to make their journey successful, and guide them without revealing all the gory details of your own painful journey in getting to the top. (*Even if your only 1/2 way there!)

You'd be surprised "how many" sit in the valley too scared to make the climb by themselves. They see, and hear all these stories, and see the "fallen" and point fingers, laughing, weighing their shortfalls and misfortunes, while they sit in wait to be lead!

Yet...it is those of us who bare the scars, those of us who envision the flag a top the mountain of success, and those of us who relentlessly get back up and climb again, while still bleeding from the last attempt... that seperates the leaders from the followers.

Guide them accordingly, ethically, and provide results. There is an endless supply of people in need. However, you build your campaigns...give consideration to the journey itself, as that is far more rewarding then the money.

I say this, as I am just getting ready to build my list(s)...cause previously I was mentally preparing myself for all the above!

All the Best,

Art

PS - "The Money Is tn the List" is true once you know how to...

a.) Build a "Laser Targeted" List
b.) Psychologically Influence that List
c.) Sift the "Diamonds" from the "Coal"
d.) Provide Endless Information, Beneficial to that List

So really, the "Money Is In The Research!" prior to, and long after... building that list!

PSS- Notice I included: (*And by no means was it accidental)...

-Taste
-Touch
-Smell
-Sight
-Hearing

The 6th sense is the ability to make them feel you, without ever touching them physically! -An area I am still researching deeply!

Great post.

One of the sure ways to get people to unsubscribe to your list is if you fail to build those relationships and actually give them value.

I am a big fan of mini email courses for providing value, and making sure I interact with my list rather than just treating them as wallets with an email address

You are so right and many people do not think about that. Like you said, think about how you would respond to someone who gives incredible value time after time. Sometimes, you just have to picture ourself in your customers' shoes and what you would expect from a seller and you are halfway to solving the problem. The other half is how to deliver that excellence.

This is some great advice and very true. It's funny that you have to take so many steps in order to make money online. You really do have to conquer and master so much. You need a product, a salespage, a thank you page, a squeeze page, an autoresponder, follow-up emails, high quality content/free offers, traffic sources, a big list, attractive headlines and on top of all that you have to make sure everything looks high quality to the point where it converts. You have to constantly keep testing and doing trial and error. I'm at the point where i've built a list and now I'm simply trying to get them to open my emails. I have some high quality content for them but of course they'll never figure it out if they don't open my emails. I need to find attention getting email subject lines that will get them to open.

Nope. Close but no cigar.

And here is an exercise to prove my point. Pick your favorite marketer. Now sign up for his or her list.

Getting anything of value or just an endless stream of offers? I fall off my chair if I get a 'value' email ... actually I don't remember the last time that happened. That does not count the presales value stuff ... that this is the typical 3 value posts and 1 sales post formula ... I count that as an extended sales pitch.

So value is not the answer.

Now what about the attention? Lets say subscriber X signs up for one of those 3 value / 1 sign up pitch campaigns I just mentioned and does not buy. Anything of value X wanted has been provided, but he still stays on the list. Is he paying attention? Not for long.. You can tell because he does not open many emails after a while. He is still a subscriber but is not paying attention.

So attention is not the answer.

So why is X still a subscriber? It is not for the value and he no longer pays much attention to what is being emailed to him with regular frequency.

Now I could fill in the answer here Dr Mani. But lets engage a bit. What is it about human behavior that dictates the action of your list? You are on the right path, but you just need one more logical step.

I agree with what you're saying completely, but there is one thing I'm curious about. I'm on the list of a few big IMers and they bombard their list with the latest re-hashed garbage product almost on a weekly basis.

If you were to go by the logic - copy someone who is successful and you'll get the same results as them, well then this doesn't really add up does it??? :confused:

Great post Dr. Mani! It's always a delight to read one of your posts and yes I agree attention is one of the most important gift that a marketer can have.

I've been making my living online now since 1997 and have realized several key components about list relationships.

My time is valuable.....but....so is the *reader's* time they spend reading my content. So these days, I make sure to thank them for reading.

My business is valuable, so I charge money. But my readers like bargains, so I choose to offer quality products to them for free every now and then.

My family requires me to make money. But my readers also need to do the same thing for their family. Empathizing/providing resources to do that...it's now a main focus of my marketing as well.

Everything can be boiled down to WIIFM. What's in it for me!

• What's in it for me to keep you as a subscriber?
• What's in it for you to stay on my list?

Once you have that straight, you need to ask yourself:

Do I have the time/energy/etc. to meet those WIIFM needs?

Sometimes you don't! For example, some of my readers adore big huge copy and the latest shiniest new thingees online.

I, however, don't *like* writing hyped-up marketing copy. Others do it far better than I.

But I *do* like selling, and I *do* like it when my readers find/buy a tool that actually meets their needs.

So instead of doing it all meself, I find the best affiliate product out there and write about it in terms my readers can relate to.

Case in point. Over at the WSOs, there's a product called WP Comment Cash. It's a nifty plugin that replaces spammers links with the site owner's clickbank links. I'll be buying it meself most likely as I have lots of niche sites online.

Do you think the non-seasoned marketer would understand the benefits simply from the product title?

And then once they did understand, would they immediately see the benefits to *their* specific situation?

Methinks not.

But if I choose to write about it in such a way to spells out why your average joe would be interested, both my readers and I are now happy.

Make no mistake about it, I am in business for my family and me.

Then again, *so are my readers.*

Marrying the two goals - it works.

Terrapurus - makes some sense to me. Nothing in social organization is static. Maybe there should be a term for authorities that stand the test of time - "elastic authoritism"?

I hear your word "authority" -- but there are many "authorities" that really never make it. They have all the credential and their ideas are rock solid, logical, and workable. Yet they do not make the cut.

I think you have left something important out of your equation.

In a sea of authorities - what is the quality of the authority that makes the cut over the one who just knows the right things, but nobody really pays much attention to?

Leadership qualities.

There are thousands of doctors. When someone is sick, they will believe an authority - but of two doctors who will they choose?
1. The doctor gives a diagnosis, then prescribes a treatment, gives an appointment to see the person later and runs off to the next patient.
2. The doctor gives a diagnosis, recognizes the patient's fear, explains the treatment, puts his hand on the patient's shoulder and says - "Yes, you are very sick, but we will get you through this. I will watch you closely and we will overcome your illness."

People do seek authority - but they want that authority to have some empathy and to lead. Sometimes knowing just isn't enough.