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Failures Acting Entitled Boil My Blood

by TiffanyLambert
68 replies
Hey Warriors!

Bit of a rant here but there's lessons in it so I'll share. I got an email - titled SOS - from a person failing big time - not a penny made, and lots spent. Gave me her URL and says we can "help each other."

Well I'm making 6 figures, she's making zero so let's admit this is a "please help me" email. I don't mind that. I'm looking at it as "I was once there - I was an unemployed housewife w/2 kids, one who was sick" so I wanted to help.

I took her URL, went to it, spent 30 minutes or more writing an analysis reply back to her about what she was doing wrong. She paired two topics - two VERY broad and different niches - and the content would go off on things that wasn't related to either of those two niches. Not one blog post monetized a single thing. She had a couple of amazon search boxes on the side and 1-2 AdSense ads.

So I email her the reply, explaining what's wrong, what to do, etc. I also create a blog post NOT using her domain or name - and help share the lesson with my subscribers because it's a common one (getting off niche topic, not monetizing right, etc).

I wake up this morning and this selfish, thankless failure has the nerve to get ANGRY with me about using her problem as an example for my readers. She's offended. She says she contacted me via email, not my blog.

Really, lady?

You expect - are entitled to - my FREE one on one mentoring where I keep the lesson a secret because WHY again?

Because I didn't link to a single product in that lesson. I helped for free. And I also knew my subscribers would step up and help you in the comments, which they DID. So you got lots of free hand holding.

MY OWN MONETIZATION was put on HOLD while I took time to review and answer your email with careful consideration. You go email a dozen successful marketers and see how many reply to you on the same day with a personal, well thought out reply and NO push to buy something from them. AND an invitation to email back for even MORE help, as I did.

I could understand if I listed her URL and laughed at what an idiot she was, but I didn't. I was kind. I'm not NOW of course, but I WAS.

Lessons in all of this:

1. If you're a marketer who gets this kind of reply, please don't stop helping others. Out of 3 people who got helped from me or my community that day, only 1 was lacking brain cells. The other two were gracious and implemented suggestions and that felt good.

2. If you're someone reaching out for help via email to a successful marketer - don't deny them the opportunity to help others with your situation. You surely don't think you're the first or only one to make mistakes, right? We SHARE those examples not to humiliate you, but to let others learn right alongside you.

What am I supposed to do - wait for 9,000 people to email me individually while I analyze each of their issues, write out a long helpful FREE reply, and do it all on the down low just so what? So you don't blush for a few seconds?

Get over yourself!

In fact, consider it something you should be admired for! You used yourself as an example to help OTHERS in the same boat. This isn't 3rd grade here - we don't have time for cushioning replies to prevent hurt feelings. I have stuff to do to make money for my OWN family, thankyouverymuch.

/rant.

Tiff the Honey Badger today
#acting #blood #boil #entitled #failures
  • Profile picture of the author Power and Wealth
    People only want what's good for them. It's good for them if they get free mentoring, bad for them if their failure is exposed in any way.

    Might have felt to her like getting salt rubbed in her wounds, but maybe thats EXACTLY what she needed.

    You can't expect someone in that situation to have anything good to say anyway. I've been there. It's VERY frustrating (as you are well aware I'm sure).

    Just take the high road and let it ride out
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    • Profile picture of the author Evelyn B.
      Tiffany,

      I'm on your list and I have to giggle every time I hear the "Honey Badger" in you come out. All I can say is, "You GO girl." I like your stuff.

      I'm doing just fine as an SEO copywriter/ Freelance writer/ Ghostwriter. I had my nose turned up about PLR, but after your coverage of it this week, I actually changed my tune! I am going to start building up a supply in between client projects and start my own little PLR boutique.

      Thanks for being willing to help despite the knuckleheads who can't see excellent advice when it shows up giftwrapped in their inbox. . .

      Peace,

      Evelyn ;-)
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      • Profile picture of the author SilentSilence
        Originally Posted by Evelyn B. View Post

        Tiffany,

        I'm on your list and I have to giggle every time I hear the "Honey Badger" in you come out. All I can say is, "You GO girl." I like your stuff.
        Honey Badger don't give a ****!

        But yeah, I'm right there with ya, OP. It reminds me of just a few weeks ago when a beggar asked for some change while I was on my way to school. Resisting the urge to respond with "I'm in the hole thousands with student loans. YOU are worth more than ME." I gave him what I had in my pocket, which happened to be about 19 cents.

        He then proceeded to berate me for having the nerve to give him so little; he even threw the coins at me and called me a POS. :rolleyes:

        Needless to say, I was kind of miffed, much as you are now. But look on the bright side: you make a six figure income while she wallows in unprofitable obscurity!
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  • Profile picture of the author IronRing
    Banned
    Sorry to hear you had to put up with that. Some people just expect a free ride these days
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  • Profile picture of the author Nirnaeth
    Hi Tiff,
    I read that blog post and the advice you gave that person helped me too - I was about to make one or two of the same mistakes *lol* So thank you for that!

    Don't know why that lady got so mad, you didn't disclose who it was and you were providing lots of tips to help improve her site. No-one could have known whose site it was, it could've applied to anyone.
    And I don't think you were mean, you were very nice about it and just pointed out what might be done better. But I guess saying anything negative is mean to some people...

    Thank you for continuing to help despite ungrateful people who don't know how to act professionally!
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  • Profile picture of the author TracyNeedham
    So how exactly was the other side of the "we can help each other" equation supposed to work in her mind?! You spend all this time helping her for free and she helps you how....by sending you good karma?!!

    Now, I'm not knocking good karma--we can all use it! But you're right, this definitely sounds like a thinly veiled "can you help me" solicitation from someone who doesn't want to admit that's what it is.

    And it's not even that "can you help me" requests are bad. As you said, they can be good teaching opportunities. And it's a great feeling when people are appreciative of your response and actually follow through on what you said.

    IMO there was absolutely no reason for her to fly off the handle like she did about your post. Heck, I have done similar posts about clients--being careful to not reveal anything about their identity or site--but just sharing the points I thought others could benefit from.

    But now I'm wondering if that whole "let's help each other" approach from someone who really doesn't have anything to offer might be a a red flag for a potential pain in the a--. It's definitely a sign they have a bit of a skewed viewpoint...

    So maybe I'll pencil it onto my "red flag" list and keep an eye out for it from now on...

    Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
      Originally Posted by TracyNeedham View Post

      So how exactly was the other side of the "we can help each other" equation supposed to work in her mind?! You spend all this time helping her for free and she helps you how....by sending you good karma?!!
      Not sure initially but at the end she said I should thank her for letting me have something to talk about on my blog that day. ROTFLMAO. I linked to ZERO products in that blog post, so it made me money how, exactly? I want to smack her.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        I'm not sure why I'm channeling The Rock today, but...

        "Finally, Tiffany Dow returns to layeth the smacksown on the ingrate's candy ass..."

        It just goes to show that some peoples' parents never should have been allowed to play in the gene pool...
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  • Profile picture of the author davejug1
    That's the sad thing these days, people believe they are entitled to everything, "Well if she's making money, she has to show me how", that kind of mentality is a sad espect of IM.

    Sorry about your experience but take the Karma shot in the arm and understand that your good deed will come back to you. As marketers, I think that's all we can do.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    If I emailed anyone privately asking for advice, I would assume that they would keep anything and everything in that email PRIVATE. Just because someone needs help and contacted someone more successful doesn't mean that their privacy shouldn't be respected.

    If you don't want to help, don't help. But don't use it as an excuse to disrespect someone else's privacy. You could have asked her if it was OK to publish the URL to her site.
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      If I emailed anyone privately asking for advice, I would assume that they would keep anything and everything in that email PRIVATE. Just because someone needs help and contacted someone more successful doesn't mean that their privacy shouldn't be respected.

      If you don't want to help, don't help. But don't use it as an excuse to disrespect someone else's privacy. You could have asked her if it was OK to publish the URL to her site.
      I'm thinking that's an assumption that more than a few people who are guests of the prison system wish they hadn't made...
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      • Profile picture of the author ShayB
        Okay...so...I hope I don't get roasted for this, but...I'm going to say it anyway.

        Not meant to be a slam or a slight or anything, because I love Tiff's blog and her work.

        In your first post, you mention:

        "I won't mention the domain, but I hope she doesn't mind her issues being a good lesson because many others are right there with her." (Emphasis mine.)

        So, it seems to me that the possibility may have entered your mind that she would be upset at being made an example of.

        Would it have been so difficult to add a sentence to your email to her about "Hey, can I use your site as a way to help others not make the same mistakes?" or something similar?

        Then you go all ballistic (again, publicly) about her response (which doesn't really seem that bad, to be honest). You talk about how she doesn't "deserve" a backlink and go into the whole "How dare she" mode.

        Not saying what she did was right, either. Just saying there are two sides and all that.

        JMHO and YMMV
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    • Profile picture of the author Cantbedone!
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      If I emailed anyone privately asking for advice, I would assume that they would keep anything and everything in that email PRIVATE. Just because someone needs help and contacted someone more successful doesn't mean that their privacy shouldn't be respected.

      If you don't want to help, don't help. But don't use it as an excuse to disrespect someone else's privacy. You could have asked her if it was OK to publish the URL to her site.

      Wow!... Just... Wow. There is no end to bleeding heart whining in this world...

      Thicken your skin people. Life can get a whole h3ll of a lot tougher than this out there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
    Hey Tiff,

    This story reminds me of the zen master story:

    A master was trying to explain something to a student. Now this student was not a brand new student, but a senior student who had learned many things. He had knowledge and experience aplenty to draw upon.

    But each time the master tried to explain something new to the student, the student kept trying to hold it up against his own notions of the way the world is and how it ought be, and he was unable to see the lessons in what the master was trying to teach him.
    Finally, the master poured a full serving of tea into his own cup, and into the cup of the student.

    Then he told the student he wanted to give to him some of the tea from his own cup. He began pouring tea from his cup into the student's cup, but the student's cup was already full, and all the tea from the master's cup spilled out over the cup onto the surface below.

    The student said, "Master, you can't pour anything into my cup until I empty it to make room for what you are trying to give me.", and the master replied "Yes I know." "And I can't give you any new thoughts or ideas or perspectives on life's lessons until you clear out some thoughts that are already teeming in your mind to make room for what I have to teach you."

    Then the master paused for a brief moment, meeting the student's eyes with his own knowing look and calmly but sternly said: " If you truly seek understanding, then first, empty your cup!"

    The student pondered for a moment with a look of absolute bewilderment. Then a look of enlightenment came over him, followed by a smile, and a look of receptiveness. The master started to explain again, and this time the student saw what the master was trying to say.

    I think this is because we are at our most vulnerable when we are asking for help and no-one wants to feel or look stupid.

    However I have found a key to success is NEVER be afraid of looking stupid and ask as many questions as you can.

    Hats off to you for trying to help Tiff, unfortunately that is all you can do!

    Have peace of mind knowing you tried your best, because that is all ANYONE can do.

    Chris Jones
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    • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      If I emailed anyone privately asking for advice, I would assume that they would keep anything and everything in that email PRIVATE. Just because someone needs help and contacted someone more successful doesn't mean that their privacy shouldn't be respected.

      If you don't want to help, don't help. But don't use it as an excuse to disrespect someone else's privacy. You could have asked her if it was OK to publish the URL to her site.
      That's just IT Kurt - NOWHERE in the post did I mention her name OR her URL. Only the situation of how a site was being monetized was talked about in generic terms.

      So hopefully you understand my frustration now!
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  • Profile picture of the author barbling
    I have no problem using email exchanges in my posts, so long as I ensure that there's nothing visible that can identify the individual.

    I've discovered that readers enjoy learning from other's experiences...and quite often that can lead to further great ideas being sparked.

    In my case, the person in question *did* send back an apology, which was quite surprising (and nice to boot).
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Skinner
    Tiff,

    1,2,3.... Breeeeaaaatheeee! And Exhaaaaaale...... Wheeeewwww...

    Be brave young warrior and remember, change terrifies people! You offered solutions where sympathy was being sought. But, do not fret, your intentions were pure and your actions honorable. Your advice solid.

    She responded with anger because you were a mirror of truth that she hoped did not exist, but, would have to acknowledge actually did. You may not realize it, but you rocked her world and she responded in the only way she knew how.

    So, be patient, you have most likely steered her in a direction that will offer her the opportunity to turn her life around. Mission accomplished!
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    • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
      I don't really blame her for being upset or slightly offended. Nor do I think she is "Entitled". She didn't ask for advice and then turn around and ask you to make the changes on the site for her.

      If I were to guess, I would say it's this one line that got her upset "If you're truly trying to be an expert, avoid spelling errors in the domain". If you were saying something like "Avoid misspellings" then I think it would've gone over well. But since you didn't bring it up in the email to her, it sounds like you're using a public forum to poke fun at her. Sure, you didn't say her name, but it was clear to her that you were making fun of her. Second, it sounds from her reply that it actually wasn't even misspelled.

      I also don't know if I'd use the word "Failures" when talking about IM'ers that aren't successful. It probably makes your other visitors think that's what you really think of those that are struggling to make money.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
        Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post

        I don't really blame her for being upset or slightly offended. Nor do I think she is "Entitled". She didn't ask for advice and then turn around and ask you to make the changes on the site for her.

        If I were to guess, I would say it's this one line that got her upset "If you're truly trying to be an expert, avoid spelling errors in the domain". If you were saying something like "Avoid misspellings" then I think it would've gone over well. But since you didn't bring it up in the email to her, it sounds like you're using a public forum to poke fun at her. Sure, you didn't say her name, but it was clear to her that you were making fun of her. Second, it sounds from her reply that it actually wasn't even misspelled.

        I also don't know if I'd use the word "Failures" when talking about IM'ers that aren't successful. It probably makes your other visitors think that's what you really think of those that are struggling to make money.
        Man, if people are offended by that above, then wait until THEY start handling problems with affiliates, pissed off customers, paypal screwing them over, etc...

        You want to participate in business? Toughen up and get some thicker skin.

        I don't see a single thing that Tiffany has done wrong here. She took time out of her day to help someone, and then used it as a teaching lesson for others, then in appreciation for her help, she got a pissed off email.

        Rob
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        • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
          Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

          Man, if people are offended by that above, then wait until THEY start handling problems with affiliates, pissed off customers, paypal screwing them over, etc...

          You want to participate in business? Toughen up and get some thicker skin.

          I don't see a single thing that Tiffany has done wrong here. She took time out of her day to help someone, and then used it as a teaching lesson for others, then in appreciation for her help, she got a pissed off email.

          Rob
          She sent Tiffany an email and let her know that she didn't like being the subject of a post that she, probably thought, kind of mocked her inability to spell (which wasn't really even misspelled).

          ::She let Tiffany know by email.

          ::Tiffany creates a blog post to vent about the response.

          ::Tiffany creates a thread on the warrior forum to vent and calls them "Failures".

          Wait....who needs thicker skin again?
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          • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
            Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post


            Wait....who needs thicker skin again?
            Tiffany was the one who runs a successful business and, if it's anything like me, has at least 10 people daily begging for some sort of help.

            To not only send a response to this girl means that she had to take time out of her schedule to help her, but also had to choose to not help someone else. (Again, if its like me)

            In the position Tiff is in, her time is valuable and she could (and probably should) charge for this advice.

            The girl? She got something immensely valuable - for free, and then complained about it afterwards.

            I completely understand Tiff's position - she feels violated. Her time was given freely and instead she got spat on.

            Now, how likely would she be to help someone in the future, for free, if this continues to happen?

            Well, it's happened to me enough that I simply don't anymore. Perhaps that is the direction Tiffany should go in.

            Rob
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            • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
              Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

              Tiffany was the one who runs a successful business and, if it's anything like me, has at least 10 people daily begging for some sort of help.

              To not only send a response to this girl means that she had to take time out of her schedule to help her, but also had to choose to not help someone else. (Again, if its like me)

              In the position Tiff is in, her time is valuable and she could (and probably should) charge for this advice.

              The girl? She got something immensely valuable - for free, and then complained about it afterwards.

              I completely understand Tiff's position - she feels violated. Her time was given freely and instead she got spat on.

              Now, how likely would she be to help someone in the future, for free, if this continues to happen?

              Well, it's happened to me enough that I simply don't anymore. Perhaps that is the direction Tiffany should go in.

              Rob
              Well, I think you kinda side-stepped my point. You were being critical of the girl for not having thick skin, despite the fact that Tiffany seemed to make a bigger deal out of it than she did. It's just ironic that we're talking about the time it took her to respond, but now she's probably spent 20x the time talking about the whole issue. Like you said, there are bigger problems to worry about if you're running a successful business.

              And I would probably differ with calling the email "immensely valuable". It was nice of her to respond, but let's not overestimate people's time or knowledge.

              Finally, Tiffany sells to that market. Acting as if responding to an email is a huge sacrifice is probably why IM gets a bad rap. I run an offline business and we call answering emails (customer or not) just doing business. I don't get all upset when someone expects more of me than I feel should be expected. It's just the way it is.

              Demanding customers doesn't make them entitled or whiners. It's just different expectations.
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              • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
                Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post


                And I would probably differ with calling the email "immensely valuable". It was nice of her to respond, but let's not overestimate people's time or knowledge.
                One time I answered an email - a guy wanting recommendations for fixing his sales letter - didn't know why it wasn't selling.

                I gave him 10 minutes worth of advice.

                It went from 0 to 5 sales immediately that week and continued to do so. That's about 200 bucks a week he was making.

                If my math is correct, that's about 10,000 dollars worth of "advice" (for 1 year of selling).


                Why do you think business consultants charge hundreds or thousands of dollars for their "advice".

                If you don't think an email from an experienced and highly successful business person is valuable, giving you DIRECT answer to your questions and potentially making money...

                I mean, if Tiffany's advice ends up making this girl even 5,000 bucks this year... that advice would be worth 5,000 bucks, wouldn't you say?

                Because of my experience with business, I know what I'm worth. And if people want to get all bent out of shape and demanding because I gave them advice and then shared the benefits of that convo (without giving details of who they are), then screw em. They are failures in my book.

                I don't put up with that crap and neither should anyone else.

                Rob
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                • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
                  Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

                  One time I answered an email - a guy wanting recommendations for fixing his sales letter - didn't know why it wasn't selling.

                  I gave him 10 minutes worth of advice.

                  It went from 0 to 5 sales immediately that week and continued to do so. That's about 200 bucks a week he was making.

                  If my math is correct, that's about 10,000 dollars worth of "advice" (for 1 year of selling).


                  Why do you think business consultants charge hundreds or thousands of dollars for their "advice".

                  If you don't think an email from an experienced and highly successful business person is valuable, giving you DIRECT answer to your questions and potentially making money...

                  I mean, if Tiffany's advice ends up making this girl even 5,000 bucks this year... that advice would be worth 5,000 bucks, wouldn't you say?
                  Ha. I think IM'ers tend to inflate their own worth just a tad. What you just said is like a salesperson trying to charge $10K for a lawn mower that retails for $1500 on the basis that he'll save you that much (over landscaping service) during the life of the mower.

                  Consultants earn their money. THey don't walk in the door and say "Hey, lock up the supply cabinet, that'll save you $10M, and I'll take $5M!!!".

                  If the guy was willing to pay you $10K, then you're worth it. But walking around saying that you give out tips that resulted in $x, does not mean your advice is suddenly WORTH x. If it was, you wouldn't be on a message board answering questions for free. That's why you don't see Jay Abraham, Chet Holmes, or Rich Schefren on here. They actually have people waiting in line to pay them for advice.

                  What Tiffany did was nice, but let's not overblow it. She answered an email from a potential customer. She didn't work alongside the lady for 12 months getting her blog running, for free, and then have the lady complain that she's not doing more.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post

        I don't really blame her for being upset or slightly offended. Nor do I think she is "Entitled". She didn't ask for advice and then turn around and ask you to make the changes on the site for her.

        If I were to guess, I would say it's this one line that got her upset "If you're truly trying to be an expert, avoid spelling errors in the domain". If you were saying something like "Avoid misspellings" then I think it would've gone over well. But since you didn't bring it up in the email to her, it sounds like you're using a public forum to poke fun at her. Sure, you didn't say her name, but it was clear to her that you were making fun of her. Second, it sounds from her reply that it actually wasn't even misspelled.

        I also don't know if I'd use the word "Failures" when talking about IM'ers that aren't successful. It probably makes your other visitors think that's what you really think of those that are struggling to make money.
        Sure, it might have been clear to her that she was the one Tiff was talking about. It sounds like she may have been the only one to whom it was clear she was being made fun of. I doubt that was the intent at all.

        And given that the original exchange was made by email, I'd bet that she and Tiff are the only ones who know the lesson was about her site. It sounds as though Tiffany made the necessary effort to remove any personally identifiable information.
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    • Profile picture of the author rrm
      Originally Posted by Scott Skinner View Post

      So, be patient, you have most likely steered her in a direction that will offer her the opportunity to turn her life around. Mission accomplished!
      I seriously doubt it. People like her who feel entitled live in a mind set that rarely resets, because it's easy for them to live in that world.

      Hey Tiff...

      1) You owed her nothing.

      2) She owes you much.

      3) She doesn't want the truth because she can't handle the truth.

      4) You did not overreact. Forbearance is a virtue but if I had just one nerve in my body, attitudes like hers would find it and get all over it.

      Ron

      p.s. For those who think Tiff should just forget about it and move on... well, she always does. Still, it's one of those eternally annoying things that in so venting just might give someone else pause before acting like an id wad.

      I say, rock on and blow the freeloading entitlement losers to the nether regions!

      Ron
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      It's not enough to want it... you have to want it enough.

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      • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
        Originally Posted by rrm View Post

        I seriously doubt it. People like her who feel entitled live in a mind set that rarely resets, because it's easy for them to live in that world.

        Hey Tiff...

        1) You owed her nothing.

        2) She owes you much.

        3) She doesn't want the truth because she can't handle the truth.

        4) You did not overreact. Forbearance is a virtue but if I had just one nerve in my body, attitudes like hers would find it and get all over it.

        Ron

        p.s. For those who think Tiff should just forget about it and move on... well, she always does. Still, it's one of those eternally annoying things that in so venting just might give someone else pause before acting like an id wad.

        I say, rock on and blow the freeloading entitlement losers to the nether regions!

        Ron
        If you run a blog where you post your comments, you're inviting people to ask for help/guidance. It's kind of part of the gig.
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    Shay I wont roast you! I only said that in case it made her feel shy. But it's ridiculous to be pussed when your name and domain appear NOWHERE period.

    Ryan I also said in that same section that I didn't know why she had spelled it differently if there was a reason. As I said though, all she had to say was why end of story. No one was making fun of her at all.

    Your last paragraph makes no sense. I try to help someone struggling for Free because I think poorly of them? Um okay. Makes sense...not
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    • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
      Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

      Your last paragraph makes no sense. I try to help someone struggling for Free because I think poorly of them? Um okay. Makes sense...not
      The point was that when you're angry at a newbie, calling them "Failures" probably doesn't look very good. (see your thread title)

      It's like a psychiatrist calling his patients "quacks"
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    I stand firm by the fact that she's a failure 100% based on her attitude. My readers know what I think of newbies and people who haven't succeeded YET versus someone like her with a gimme attitude.
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  • Profile picture of the author msmir75
    Ah well I had something similar happen to me last year and I was super angry. Nothing to do with IM but because I am so nice (too nice sometimes), I had a friend whose sister asked me to look into something for her and I agreed to do it for free because of her being a friend. I found something that she did not like, delivered what I found via Facebook. She immediately closed her account. I asked my friend what happened and she told me that her sister was taken aback about the information I gave her but my friend, I thought anyway understood I did this as a favor and was not angry with me for it. So I wrote in my blog later that night about what happened (without using names of course) and my friend wrote me the nastiest email and blamed me for making her sister miserable!! Oh and told me that I better remove that blog post. I told her to f off, called her and her sister ungrateful bitches and deleted her from my list. Yeah I was pretty pissed off too. So I understand the pain. You reach out and help someone for free and they lash out at you for not liking what you to help. Ingrates.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jacqueline Smith
    WOW.......people never cease to amaze me!

    The most amazing part about this story is your willingness to continue to help others and.....encouraging others to do the same. I'm sure it would be much easier to just hang up your 'mentor' hat sometimes.

    I think I speak for most warriors when I say....thanks for keeping that hat firmly in place!
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Tiffany, did you call yourself a honey badger again? Where did you get this nickname?

    ha ha, couldn't help but think of this...

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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    That's where it's from! And where my t-shirt's from (Zazzle) lol

    And I notice Ryan's big bold "who needs thicker skin" blurb above. If I was HURT, I'd say me. But I'm not hurt. I'm pissed. I have every right to be pissed. I'm sharing a lesson for 2 people - marketers helping others who WILL encounter people like this and people who are acting entitled. Although the latter won't learn from it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dustin_M
    I read Tiffany's blog just about every day and the one thing I can say for sure is that she has a teacher's heart. She truly wants to help others make money. In my opinion, using real examples only serves to HELP everyone; including the person that was offended. Theory simply does not work; focused effort and hard work does.

    Does that mean she is going to do it for you? Absolutely not! Will she give her honest (and sometimes blunt) opinion on what she thinks? Absolutely!

    What's wrong with that?
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    Nice bit of positioning going on in this thread.

    Not sure if openly calling someone a failure is the nice thing to do.

    I have had similar situations when running a training membership, and I always asked them if it was ok to share the info to benefit everyone else.
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    • Profile picture of the author Celeste Green
      You know, I'm guessing some of her angry may have been because your response hit a tender nerve. It's hard to accept criticism, even constructive criticism from a friendly source, when you've worked hard. In her mind she may have thought she'd done a great job and was looking for some validation. It takes a big person to humble yourself and change what you're doing.

      Of course, she may just be one of those jealous embittered people who think that all us marketers who are making money are part of some good old boys club & we just don't want to share our secret sauce. The secret to success couldn't possibly be simple hard work... why do I get all those emails then promising to make me thousands with just the push of a button?
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    It definitely wasn't meant to be nice. A struggling newbie is NOT a failure. This lady with her hand out asking for help, and then getting mad because GENERIC info (NO details about her OR her site) was shared is a FAIL. And selfish.

    (by the way turns out she's been on a few webinar calls lately apparently and bashed THOSE marketers who also took time to analyze her site)
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      lol... sounds like the term "loser" would be more apt.

      Hey at least she got back to you. Most of the people I help never even do that!


      Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

      It definitely wasn't meant to be nice. A struggling newbie is NOT a failure. This lady with her hand out asking for help, and then getting mad because GENERIC info (NO details about her OR her site) was shared is a FAIL. And selfish.

      (by the way turns out she's been on a few webinar calls lately apparently and bashed THOSE marketers who also took time to analyze her site)
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    • Profile picture of the author sanssecret
      I can understand where you think her attitude sucks when initially saying you 'could help each other'. So ok, it was really her who wanted the help.

      And you gave it. That was your choice to do so. However, I really think at the very least you could have told her upfront that you were going to use it as an example on your blog and reassured her that no way would anyone know who it was about. Would that have been so hard?
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      • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
        Originally Posted by sanssecret View Post

        I can understand where you think her attitude sucks when initially saying you 'could help each other'. So ok, it was really her who wanted the help.

        And you gave it. That was your choice to do so. However, I really think at the very least you could have told her upfront that you were going to use it as an example on your blog and reassured her that no way would anyone know who it was about. Would that have been so hard?
        Why should I have to do that? She obviously can READ and obviously can SEE that her name and URL are mentioned in exactly ZERO places.

        So I should have to coddle her now and ensure she doesn't get riled up when I took time to help her ass? Sorry, but NO.

        A big N-O to that.

        Now IF I would have used her name OR url, then by all means I'd agree with you 100%.
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        • Profile picture of the author sal64
          Look, it's a tricky one...

          Who owns the IP?

          Is there some small print or disclaimer that any conversations may be published?

          Are they under the impression that it's a client / doctor type relationship.

          I can understand your reaction - and it is a reaction, but there's 2 sides to everything.

          Otherwise, stop doing it and charge for your time.

          Sometimes you can't save someone because they don't want to be saved badly enough.

          You'd be naive to think that this type of situation will never occur, so suck it up and stop making a big deal out of it.

          Free seekers are free seekers for a reason IMO.

          You're far too classy for that. Meh, suck it up and move on.

          On the flipside, maybe she's jaded with the hyped up promises and starting to learn the most important lesson of all about this biz? There's a lot of BS out there for sale.

          Sadly, you may have been the venting block on this occasion.

          Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

          Why should I have to do that? She obviously can READ and obviously can SEE that her name and URL are mentioned in exactly ZERO places.

          So I should have to coddle her now and ensure she doesn't get riled up when I took time to help her ass? Sorry, but NO.

          A big N-O to that.

          Now IF I would have used her name OR url, then by all means I'd agree with you 100%.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
      Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

      It definitely wasn't meant to be nice. A struggling newbie is NOT a failure. This lady with her hand out asking for help, and then getting mad because GENERIC info (NO details about her OR her site) was shared is a FAIL. And selfish.

      (by the way turns out she's been on a few webinar calls lately apparently and bashed THOSE marketers who also took time to analyze her site)
      To be fair, I think you both kinda overreacted. I don't really think what you did was a huge deal and something to get upset about. But at the same time, I don't know if her response was really THAT crazy to get so riled up that you write a blog post and forum post.

      Sounds like she was upset you implied she was an idiot for misspelling the URL. I don't really think she would've had a problem with anything else.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    And people wonder why so many marketers won't take the time to help anyone. Probably because they have had something similar happen to them too many times!

    But, I see the same kind of thing a lot on this forum. Someone starts a thread about how they can't make money with their website or just in general. People come in and give suggestions on how to make their site/methods better. The OP gets mad and lashes out arguing with everyone that is trying to help him.

    It sure does make it hard to keep wanting to help people.

    Lee

    P.S. That honey badger video is hysterical
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    lol...

    Throw a bone out there and watch the pooches fight over it.

    Sweeeeet!
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    • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
      Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post

      It's just ironic that we're talking about the time it took her to respond, but now she's probably spent 20x the time talking about the whole issue. Like you said, there are bigger problems to worry about if you're running a successful business.
      It's not about the TIME. Not really. It's a POINT in my argument but it's not THE point. The point is, an ungrateful person had me waste MY time for FREE and then got offended! That's something to be ashamed of but the whole reason I'm talking about it because it's a valuable lesson for two groups.

      I saw several comments here and directly to me saying they'd been there done that - tried to help a few, they weren't appreciative, so now they don't help anyone. I'm so glad my mentor helped me for free because I was flat ass broke and he'd been screwed over and disappointed a zillion times before me.

      The lesson is also good for people who DO come into this feeling entitled - and there are a lot of newbies here, so it's a good lesson for them to learn too when people complain about how nobody wants to do anything but sell to them - no one will help for free. Well, as someone else pointed out - this may be part of the reason why.

      Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post

      And I would probably differ with calling the email "immensely valuable". It was nice of her to respond, but let's not overestimate people's time or knowledge.
      No it wasn't earth shattering but it could have helped her site become profitable, for sure. And when I start a conversation of 30 mins of my time spent, and then INVITE her to continue the mentoring, yes, it's valuable.

      Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post

      Finally, Tiffany sells to that market. Acting as if responding to an email is a huge sacrifice is probably why IM gets a bad rap. I run an offline business and we call answering emails (customer or not) just doing business. I don't get all upset when someone expects more of me than I feel should be expected. It's just the way it is.

      Demanding customers doesn't make them entitled or whiners. It's just different expectations.
      I didn't say it was a HUGE sacrifice but I have my own mouths to feed and sorry, I had NO way of knowing how much time she would consume of mine - it began @ 30 mins, could have gone on more (till she screwed that up). Demanding CUSTOMERS is one thing. Tell me how you feel when a NON paying customer demands **** from you - then we'll talk.

      Especially when they turn around and act ****ty to you. That's the difference. I've never once complained about helping someone free who asked for it, needed it, and took advantage of it.
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      • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
        Originally Posted by owslaw123 View Post

        and to TIffany, would you have made a similar post without asking if this private conversation had been with another successful marketing person. would you not have done them the courtesy of asking to use your private conversation for a public blog post.
        Yes I would! No hesitation at all.

        Once again...

        If I had used her NAME or URL I could see a problem. But the entire post was generic with a lesson about the situation, not HER.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
          Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

          If I had used her NAME or URL I could see a problem. But the entire post was generic with a lesson about the situation, not HER.
          The amount of people missing that point brings up another sad situation about the times we live in - reading comprehension has to be at an all time low.

          I've done this very thing before - gave private help, then realized that that person's situation and advice would be helpful to the group as a whole.

          Leaving out details about who/website, I've posted blog posts and have had a lot of people thank me for it.

          As I said, you've done nothing wrong at all Tiff. It's your blog, your time, your advice. You respected her privacy. If she is being an ingrate, drop her like a rock.

          Rob
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        • Profile picture of the author David Keith
          Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

          Yes I would! No hesitation at all.

          Once again...

          If I had used her NAME or URL I could see a problem. But the entire post was generic with a lesson about the situation, not HER.
          i honestly would not have much of a problem with this, i would like any advice i can get from people with experience in almost any thing i am doing.

          i can say honestly that i would probably be more sensitive to asking permission than you were, but thats just a personal thing.

          i understand you took your time to help her and that probably does entitle you to use the scenario as you see fit.

          to me its just a touch borderline when a person takes personal communication public at only one parties discretion.

          and i understand you did avoid using her personal info, its just a touch on the fence for me.

          i communicate via email a lot. and i just dont expect those conversations to go public. if i did, i would probably be a little more careful in choosing my words sometime
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Why I appreciate this story (I would have been boiling as well) that's why my
            time is billed at $100 per hour. My helping people for free days, especially now
            that I'm semi retired, are over.

            Most you help for free not only don't appreciate it but expect more and then
            when you don't give it to them, they bash you.

            Been doing this for over 8 years and have seen enough of it to know what I'm
            talking about.

            My free ride is long over. Call me a Grinch if you want, but it's MY time. And
            NOBODY has a right to abuse it.
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            • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Why I appreciate this story (I would have been boiling as well) that's why my
              time is billed at $100 per hour.
              Yup. I've seen too many people abuse that time. You want my time, you pay for it.

              Besides, as with anything free, most people don't take it serious. If you doll out cash, you are at least more likely to take it seriously.

              Rob
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              • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
                Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

                Yup. I've seen too many people abuse that time. You want my time, you pay for it.

                Besides, as with anything free, most people don't take it serious. If you doll out cash, you are at least more likely to take it seriously.

                Rob
                Lots of unused products sitting on people's shelves/hard drives would suggest otherwise.

                Still, I'm not sure why people get so upset about giving away free advice to people that contact them, when they are essentially doing it on the WF all day anyways.
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                • Profile picture of the author WebPen
                  Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post

                  Lots of unused products sitting on people's shelves/hard drives would suggest otherwise.

                  Still, I'm not sure why people get so upset about giving away free advice to people that contact them, when they are essentially doing it on the WF all day anyways.
                  I don't think anyone is upset at giving away free information. In fact, a lot of marketers love to help out others who ask for help.

                  The problem is when they feel entitled to free help. Or when they complain about the free help that they got, like in Tiffany's case.

                  Everyone feels entitled to free stuff these days. Free health care, student loans, welfare, etc.

                  Look at the US, where they're trying to create a bunch of jobs by taking money from the wealthy. They think those people are entitled to jobs, and the wealthy aren't entitled to the money that they worked their tails off for.

                  There is no land of opportunity anymore. It's the world of entitlement.
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                  • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
                    It is amazing to me the nerve some people have and the fact that they are completely unaware of themselves. If people would spend half the time they spend on critiquing others critiquing themselves, they might get somewhere.

                    The advice Tiffany freely gave was hers to give and hers to share anyway she sees fit. Blog posts, emails, hell even an ebook inspired by the conversation is well within her right as she is the one with the needed information securely locked away in her brain.

                    I doubt anyone in here with a negative attitude towards the OP would have felt any differently had it been them who wasted their time on someone who didn't deserve it. It is irrelevant to argue over what was said or how it was said because saying anything at all was nothing but a kind gesture. Some of you might want to look up the definition of the word "Entitlement", because it does not apply to free advice from another person. It is also ridiculous to think there are any stipulations you as the needy can put on the advice being GIVEN or shared.

                    It is completely understandable to eventually avoid helping anyone for free due to bad apples who feel the world revolves around them. If you feel differently then I urge you to find yourself in the same situation where your being attacked for trying to help before you comment. It is obvious which Warriors have been there and gotten burned and those who haven't.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Her "perception" - right or wrong - had nothing to do with others knowing the story. She felt YOU were ridiculing her and making fun of her efforts. Your perception is she should have been grateful for being given your valuable time.

      Seems the perception on both sides may be a bit off. If she is thin-skinned for being angry, I don't think she's alone in that. She got some help - you got a blogging story. Call it even.

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    i read this post, and i do mostly agree with TIffany. but i can definitely see how this could have probably been avoided with a simple email from Tiffany asking to use her story to help others.

    i can say that if i were in her shoes that it does kinda seem as though you used her misfortune to your benefit.

    i understand that you really didnt benefit from telling her story to others, but i can see how she felt that way.

    and to TIffany, would you have made a similar post without asking if this private conversation had been with another successful marketing person. would you not have done them the courtesy of asking to use your private conversation for a public blog post.

    i certainly dont think you did anything major wrong here Tiffany, but i do think you may have crossed some sort of un-written beliefs that when you talk to people via a private media, that the conversation should stay that way unless otherwise specified.

    and just so we are clear, i certainly think the lady you were trying to help has missed your intentions, but i do kinda see how she feels as though you used her mistakes to benefit you. and that is probably what she is upset about.
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  • Profile picture of the author ShawnSells
    There is an entitlement mentality that extends to almost every activity today. The novice expects your help, on HER terms, HER way, and any deviation from that is not OK with her!
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  • Profile picture of the author IMWinner
    That is one of the reason why most people would rather sell their services such as mentoring to those who are just starting to learn in the IM business. It's not a generalization but there are people, like what fellow warrior TiffanyDow had shared to us, who always point a finger to other people of their failure. It's like using someone as an scapegoat that they failed in what they do simply because a friend or someone didn't help them in their need.
    It is better to help those who are in need, but some people are ingrates and doesn't even have the gratitude and the appreciation that other people, despite of their busy schedule and focus on their business, took time off to share what she had learn to those who are struggling to make an earning online. As for those who are still struggling, although I had to include myself on that, we should understand why those who are earning more than 5 figures at times, will not go into a one on one mentoring for free. A friend of mine was asking for a mentor but wasn't successful at it. And after reading Tiffany's thread, it was like, this could be one of the reason why successful people wouldn't engage in a one on one mentoring for free. Although I know, they really want to help.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
    Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

    I took her URL, went to it, spent 30 minutes or more writing an analysis reply back to her about what she was doing wrong. ....

    I wake up this morning and this selfish, thankless failure has the nerve to get ANGRY with me about using her problem as an example for my readers. ...
    Hey honey badger! LOL

    We all get this after a while and I know it feels good to be able to "help people", but allow me this one suggestion for you -

    Before you put in the 30 mins that it takes to review these requests - reply with an email saying that you're very willing to offer an analysis for $100 (I persoanlly do it for $500, but anything will do). This sorts out the scavengers from the serious.

    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Annie Dennis
    Hi Tiffany,

    reminds me of watching Gorden Ramsey on Kitchen Nightmares, the amount of restaurant owners who ask for Gorden's help and then get really angry at the advice he gives, I remember one chap telling him he didn't know anything??? Guess some people just can't handle the truth, even when they ask for it.

    Annie
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    Wow...

    took my son to Karate and came back and this is still going on.

    Here's the real lesson friends.

    Take note of this thread. If you want to start a thread and generate some PR, then this is a great example of how to do.

    Dang she's good.

    Call me cynical... or call me whatever you want.

    Sal
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    • Profile picture of the author Marc Rodill
      Post removed.
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  • Profile picture of the author UpNorthGuy
    I think a walk through helping someone who's having a difficult time would be a great E-book!
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  • Profile picture of the author Rach72
    First Rule of Learning Anything - Shut up and listen
    Second Rule - Ask if you have questions
    Third Rule - Shut up and listen
    Fourth Rule - Implement that which needs to be implemented.

    If you don't want to be taught, then don't sign on for the class.
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  • Profile picture of the author msmir75
    I realize there are 2 sides to every story but I don't think Tiffany did anything wrong. I mean Tiffany took precious time and energy away from her work to help that woman for free who obviously turned out to be an ingrate. And why should she have asked for that woman's permission to write about that whole experience? Like she said, she was not blasting out her name or URL or anything like that. As far as I am concerned, Tiffany had every right to be angry. And people like that woman, unless some kind of miracle happens don't change. The reason for that is because they are so rigid in their beliefs and thinking that if anyone gives them suggestions and constructive criticism they go off on a tangent. People like that will never get far. Unfortunately there are many like that in this world. If you are a giving and caring person, you will unfortunately run into ungrateful jerks like this from time to time.
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    SMH at ^^^^^^
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  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    Tiff,

    Send her an invoice for your time.

    Sure, you won't get paid.. but she may realise you
    place a lot more value on your time than she does. ;-)

    John
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