new Clickbank rule - catch 22? | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

13 years ago

This has been going on for years in retail. My husband told me a story once about a clothing store in the little town where he grew up in England. His company was in the store doing some electrical work, and the store was preparing for a huge "sale".

A guy was taking items of clothing, marked, say £15, and alongside it, writing in £35, with a big X over the top, implying a fictitious reduction of £20.

Of course, this was easy to implement because everything had hand-written labels to start with..

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jordyhill

13 years ago

Originally Posted by AnniePot

This has been going on for years in retail. My husband told me a story once about a clothing store in the little town where he grew up in England. His company was in the store doing some electrical work, and the store was preparing for a huge "sale".

A guy was taking items of clothing, marked, say £15, and alongside it, writing in £35, with a big X over the top, implying a fictitious reduction of £20.

Of course, this was easy to implement because everything had hand-written labels to start with..

Hehe, that is still going on :p

If that's not the oldest trick in the book its pretty damned close!

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braincandy7

13 years ago

I keep trying to explain and convince my fiancee about this but she steadfastly believes that these "sales are real"

She is so conditioned to this process that she won't even see the other side of the coin.............If these sale prices are............"was $200......now reduced to $50" and they are still making profit with the lower price. Then the shop/company was seriously ripping people off before and can most deff not be trusted. In fact should be boycotted.

As usual logic, shopping and my other half do not mix. She will prob walk in the door soon saying

"Hun!!! Look at al the money i just saved us!!!"

Originally Posted by AnniePot

This has been going on for years in retail. My husband told me a story once about a clothing store in the little town where he grew up in England. His company was in the store doing some electrical work, and the store was preparing for a huge "sale".

A guy was taking items of clothing, marked, say £15, and alongside it, writing in £35, with a big X over the top, implying a fictitious reduction of £20.

Of course, this was easy to implement because everything had hand-written labels to start with..

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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

so apparently with these new Clickbank rules (via FTC or something) one of the things is you cant state the purchase price was x amount and is now selling for z amount?

Indeed.

Vendors can no longer lie and deceive people. Not in that way, anyway.

Finally. Thankfully. It may even gradually help to restore some of the damage done to our collective reputations by all the liars and crooks.

Originally Posted by davemiz

Why are they able to do this, without ANY ramifications and we, online, are getting butchered and shut down for the same exact thing?

Well, they shouldn't be. Like so many legal/regulatory things, it varies greatly from country to country (and in America, maybe from state to state, too?).

In most countries (certainly throughout Europe) you can't say things like "reduced from $95" unless you can prove that the identical item has actually been offered for sale at $95 in the identical location for a minimum of 30 consecutive business days, or something like that. Which makes very good sense, obviously.

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RayWhittaker

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Indeed.

Vendors can no longer lie and deceive people. Not in that way, anyway.

Finally. Thankfully. It may even gradually help to restore some of the damage done to our collective reputations by all the liars and crooks.

Well, they shouldn't be. Like so many legal/regulatory things, it varies greatly from country to country (and in America, maybe from state to state, too?).

In most countries (certainly throughout Europe) you can't say things like "reduced from $95" unless you can prove that the identical item has actually been offered for sale at $95 in the identical location for a minimum of 30 consecutive business days, or something like that. Which makes very good sense, obviously.

In the UK, some businesses are doing something very similar all the time. We get TV and radio ads proclaiming very loudly that 'THE SALE ENDS ON SUNDAY'; usually from big furniture stores. Then the following week they quietly start another sale.

Everybody knows when they say the price of this sofa or that bed is slashed from £1200 to £600 that it never sold for £1200 at all. And still people will rush to get there before the sale ends.

Scarcity and discounts (real or otherwise) have always been powerful selling tools. If we are not allowed to promote fake sales, why should the big companies be allowed to do it?

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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by RayWhittaker

Everybody knows when they say the price of this sofa or that bed is slashed from £1200 to £600 that it never sold for £1200 at all.

I'm told that UK Trading Standards officers investigate such claims very carefully, Ray - especially if they've been made on television. There are certainly hundreds of prosecutions over such offences: such matters use up quite a significant proportion of some Magistrates' time.

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Winlin

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

I'm told that UK Trading Standards officers investigate such claims very carefully, Ray - especially if they've been made on television. There are certainly hundreds of prosecutions over such offences: such matters use up quite a significant proportion of some Magistrates' time.

Similarly in the U.S. this is overseen by individual states; typically by the office of the Attorney General for the specific state. Each state generally has a comprehensive State Code that outlines the governing rules. And just as in the UK, it's taken very seriously and can cause major issues for retailers that try to circumvent the laws.

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rts2271 13 years ago
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Net66

13 years ago

Originally Posted by RayWhittaker

In the UK, some businesses are doing something very similar all the time. We get TV and radio ads proclaiming very loudly that 'THE SALE ENDS ON SUNDAY'; usually from big furniture stores. Then the following week they quietly start another sale.

Everybody knows when they say the price of this sofa or that bed is slashed from £1200 to £600 that it never sold for £1200 at all. And still people will rush to get there before the sale ends.

Scarcity and discounts (real or otherwise) have always been powerful selling tools. If we are not allowed to promote fake sales, why should the big companies be allowed to do it?

Ohh that reminds me! DFS have a sale on! :rolleyes:

Andy

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Alexa Smith Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Net66

Ohh that reminds me! DFS have a sale on! :rolleyes:

Well there you go, then ... the thread served a useful purpose after all. Whoda thunk? :p
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PatriciaJ

13 years ago

Originally Posted by RayWhittaker

In the UK, some businesses are doing something very similar all the time. We get TV and radio ads proclaiming very loudly that 'THE SALE ENDS ON SUNDAY'; usually from big furniture stores. Then the following week they quietly start another sale.

Everybody knows when they say the price of this sofa or that bed is slashed from £1200 to £600 that it never sold for £1200 at all. And still people will rush to get there before the sale ends.

Scarcity and discounts (real or otherwise) have always been powerful selling tools. If we are not allowed to promote fake sales, why should the big companies be allowed to do it?

Without looking it up I do know that in the UK you cannot say that a product has been slashed from one amount to another unless it has been on sale at the higher price for a certain amount of time and within a certain amount of time. In the case of big chains the product only has to be on sale at the higher price in just one of the chain's stores. But it is probable that some shops mark prices up for a short time to be able to 'slash' their prices in sales.

I'm glad that Clickbank is enforcing these new rules and believe that in the long term it will be better for everybody.

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davemiz

13 years ago

doesn't seem to negatively affect retail.... and they collectively do *much* more volume than all of us online combined do.

this happens every day, in almost every retail type store. whats the difference?

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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

this happens every day, in almost every retail type store.

Where you live, possibly. Not so much elsewhere, I suspect.

Originally Posted by davemiz

whats the difference?

(i) Honesty/dishonesty;

(ii) Ease and incontrovertibility of gathering evidence for prosecutions;

(iii) Public demand/pressure;

(iv) ClickBank have a questionable reputation which they're trying to work on and improve;

(v) As far as online commerce goes, the liars and crooks have now done so much collective damage to all of us that the natural, time-honored, inevitable, inescapable societal response of "more regulators with more powers" has finally, long overdue, come into play and ClickBank had specific regulatory reasons for deciding to clean up their act and at least be seen to be trying to uphold some sort of standards of legality and decency: in other words "in an attempt to deflect potentially adverse regulatory attention specifically indicated".

Five explanations enough for you, Dave, or do you need more?

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glinda2011

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Where you live, possibly. Not so much elsewhere, I suspect.

(i) Honesty/dishonesty;

(ii) Ease and incontrovertibility of gathering evidence for prosecutions;

(iii) Public demand/pressure;

(iv) ClickBank have a questionable reputation which they're trying to work on and improve;

(v) As far as online commerce goes, the liars and crooks have now done so much collective damage to all of us that the natural, time-honored, inevitable, inescapable societal response of "more regulators with more powers" has finally, long overdue, come into play and ClickBank had specific regulatory reasons for deciding to clean up their act and at least be seen to be trying to uphold some sort of standards of legality and decency.

Five explanations enough for you, Dave, or do you need more?

Good point..

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HigherPrThanGod

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Where you live, possibly. Not so much elsewhere, I suspect.

(i) Honesty/dishonesty;

(ii) Ease and incontrovertibility of gathering evidence for prosecutions;

(iii) Public demand/pressure;

(iv) ClickBank have a questionable reputation which they're trying to work on and improve;

(v) As far as online commerce goes, the liars and crooks have now done so much collective damage to all of us that the natural, time-honored, inevitable, inescapable societal response of "more regulators with more powers" has finally, long overdue, come into play and ClickBank had specific regulatory reasons for deciding to clean up their act and at least be seen to be trying to uphold some sort of standards of legality and decency: in other words "in an attempt to deflect potentially adverse regulatory attention specifically indicated".

Five explanations enough for you, Dave, or do you need more?

These rules and regulations will do more damage to our industry than the things they're built to stop ever could do.

Typical unintended consequences.

Why can't people just have the PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY to do their own damn research instead of punishing everyone?

This is why I generally hate this sharing of the failure mentality. They're only going to make things worse.

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Michael Oksa 13 years ago

Originally Posted by HigherPrThanGod

Why can't people just have the PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY to do their own damn research instead of punishing everyone?

Do you REALLY see CB's new rules as a form of "punishment"?

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- HigherPrThanGod 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Michael Oksa
  
  Do you REALLY see CB's new rules as a form of "punishment"?
  
  ~Michael
  
  In a way, and my complaint is more of complaint about the snowball effects later on.
  
  When you "collectivize" the bad actions of a few markets across the entire network you're going to make it harder for the good (and new) marketers to operate.
  
  A really good example of this is how PayPal operates - everyone now looks for PayPal alternatives. Why? They want one that's not so strict. Then someone will create something to respond to that. So, even with these rules - they'll just move elsewhere so it's not helping the industry.
  
  But then, once the evil-doers move on elsewhere - guess what? We need to TAKE MORE ACTION TO STOP THEM! And the controllers will just go on and on until they ruin the market. LOL
  
  I like open, free markets and letting things happen. Then leave it up to individuals to take responsibility for their own purchases rather than making an innocent victim bear that responsibility for them.
  
  It's immoral, wrong and well, stupid.
  
  So yeah, I don't think like a lot of people on many things - but I'm cool with that.
  
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Alexa Smith Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by HigherPrThanGod

These rules and regulations will do more damage to our industry than the things they're built to stop ever could do.

They're intended to stop lies and deceit - clearly.

You really don't think lying and deception have damaged our industry?!
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- HigherPrThanGod 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith
  
  They're intended to stop lies and deceit - clearly.
  
  You really don't think lying and deception have damaged our industry?!
  
  People just need to sue and report (bbb, rip off report, cbank) those who lie.
  
  Nothing else needed, really. Let free people report and sue when appropriate.
  
  It reminds me of the states which require florists to get a license.
  
  Haha.. A license to arrange flowers?
  
  And guess what - they claim it's because they want to increase the quality of the industry!
  
  Those at the top push for those licensee programs so they can decrease and discourage competition.
  
  Overral though, these types of actions will eventually weaken the market to a standstill as it discourages new investment. If they continue to add more and more rules, it'll stifle everything. Notice how people are constantly now looking for alternatives to PayPal? It's a direct response to all of their responses.
  
  The truth is we won't even know all the unintended consequences until they happen.
  
  I thought we'd understood that the MOST FREE market is the BEST MARKET.
  
  But we always seem to FEAR true free markets.
  
  We always find something to complain about. lol
  
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  DireStraits 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by HigherPrThanGod
  
  People just need to sue and report (bbb, rip off report, cbank) those who lie.
  
  Sounds like you're being a little selfish here and looking at things purely from a marketer's/businessperson's perspective rather than a consumer's, too.
  
  In any case, I was always under the impression that things do indeed start out more or less like you say, but regulation eventually and inevitably creeps in, over time, when things don't quite work out according to your own ideology.
  
  In the context of internet marketing, there are indeed "scam exposé" sites out there already. The problem? Among other things, not enough people use them, not enough people know about them and some of them are just outright fraudulent - or at least very questionable. Many consider even the BBB's rating system to be corrupt.
  
  Besides that, is it any consolation to you, after you're scammed or let down, that you can report and expose or even sue? Does that put right all the inconvenience you underwent, the precious time you've lost that you'll never again get back, and whatever toll all of this might take on your health/wellbeing? I suppose that depends on whether money trumps all else, for you.
  
  I'm not saying any of this necessarily merits all of the regulation we've got or will have, exactly as it is, nor that I "welcome it" as a marketer who tries to act ethically and responsibly to begin with anyway, but I also think it's grossly shortsighted and oversimplified to expect things to work efficiently and satisfactorily as you describe. It'd be nice if they did. Frankly, I see it as wishful thinking for the reasons explained: if it worked, it'd be working already, and we wouldn't be in this situation.
  
  Good luck trying to change the behaviour of the masses via a grassroots approach, though.
  
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Winlin

13 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

so apparently with these new Clickbank rules (via FTC or something) one of the things is you cant state the purchase price was x amount and is now selling for z amount?...

...Why are they able to do this, without ANY ramifications and we, online, are getting butchered and shut down for the same exact thing?

Makes zero sense.

So what's your argument? You make it sound like you are more upset because the retailers can legally use lies and you cannot.

Sorry for my seemingly negative response. It's just that; I loathe the "Why do they get to cheat but I don't argument"

-To a person of ethics this is a non-argument-

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Winlin

So what's your argument? You make it sound like you are more upset because the retailers can legally use lies and you cannot.

Sorry for my seemingly negative response. It's just that; I loathe the "Why do they get to cheat but I don't argument"

-To a person of ethics this is a non-argument-

Ding, ding, ding!!

You nailed my question about the OP.

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SteveJohnson

13 years ago

It's been going on in the car business ever since there has been a car business...

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Willie Murray

13 years ago

Has anyone seen a sales video from a CB product lately? Funny as anything when they have to read out the FTC Disclaimer before going into their sales pitch

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SteveJohnson

13 years ago

BTW, if you want to be able to do the "reduced from ...", you simply have to put up a sales page with the higher price a month or two in advance of when the product goes for sale on clickbank.

Make sure it's a legit sales page that you COULD make sales from assuming someone found it. Who knows, you might even make a sale or two.

Then you wouldn't be making any false claims at all. You could even say that the product is STILL selling HERE<link> for $xx but blah blah.

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Dennis Gaskill

13 years ago

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

BTW, if you want to be able to do the "reduced from ...", you simply have to put up a sales page with the higher price a month or two in advance of when the product goes for sale on clickbank.

As an interesting aside (I think it is anyway), I think it was in a Joe Sugarman book I read where a retailer had some turquoise that wasn't selling. Before she left on a business trip she instructed her manager to mark the price way down. The manager misunderstood, and marked the price way, way UP. The turquoise sold out before the shop owner returned.

Sometimes funny things happen when the price of a product is raised.

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Chri5123

13 years ago

Yes, I agree it is a good move!

After all if you are offering a discount and not actually ever going to raise the price then this is just lying, no?

However I ALSO think that people can and should think for themselves and take the point about the furniture sales made by Ray above.

You can go into any furniture shop in the UK and they have a sale on - every week!

I am just saying that just like in the offline world you take things with a pinch of salt people should do the same online if not more so.

Chris Jones

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sadiecopywriter

13 years ago

Retailers do use this technique. I spent years working in a department store. (A large chain one.)

Once a month they would actually mark the price of either slow selling or increasingly popular items up only the mark it down two days later to 50% off. (Before the markup that same price would only be 30%-40%)

If you bought your item within those two days for the marked up price you were not entitled to a refund of the difference.

Someday maybe I'll write a book about how department stores really operate. Or maybe just an article. :-)

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Michael Oksa

13 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

so apparently with these new Clickbank rules (via FTC or something) one of the things is you cant state the purchase price was x amount and is now selling for z amount?

I just want to point out a 'catch 22' from our lovely governmental agency.

just read this in a yahoo article talking about outlet malls:

Merchandise at outlet stores usually comes with a price tag that prominently displays both the retail and the outlet price: “Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price $100, Our Price $25.” The tags lead customers to believe that they’re getting a huge discount.

But the truth is that the listed MSRP is whatever the store wants it to be—there’s no guarantee that the item is really worth that much, or that it was ever listed for that price at a retail store.

This trick, called “reference pricing,” is widely used to assuage shoppers’ anxieties and loosen their purse strings by convincing them that they’re saving more money than they’ve spent.

Why are they able to do this, without ANY ramifications and we, online, are getting butchered and shut down for the same exact thing?

Makes zero sense.

Actually, you are not making a proper comparison.

The MSRP--Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price--may be set by the manufacturer. Really. Sometimes it's printed right on the packaging and not affixed at the store.

The reason it must be suggested is to avoid violating price fixing laws. In other words, the manufacturer can only SUGGEST the price, but the store can choose to sell it for whatever price it wants.

That being said, some manufacturers do print a high MSRP so stores can look like they're giving a discount, BUT that falls on the manufacturer, not the retailer.

So, while I get what you're saying, your example has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with ClickBank's new and greatly improved policy.

You could, however, use your example to compare product CREATORS who say their product MUST be sold for a minimum price. THAT could potentially break price fixing laws.

Anyway, I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that the OP and most of the response are confusing two very different issues.

All the best,
Michael

p.s Even IF it was an apples to apples comparison it wouldn't matter. As others have basically said, two wrongs don't make a right. Using other's bad behavior as an excuse for your own is nonsense...and duly noted.

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Suellen Reitz

13 years ago

Even though Click Bank does not say so, I believe the reason for the change was they were beginning to get a bad name in sales as promoters of "sleezy products" or at least, "sleezy sales tactics".

Yes... it does effect our sales copy... but if we are totally honest... in the end... it will only help everyone... the merchant, the customer and the affiliate.

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davemiz

13 years ago

winlin and twp -- seriously?

my ethics?

How on earth did you concoct this magical story in your head?

Are you reading the same post I'm reading? It's in english you know.

please... don't sit here and twist things up about up my ethics, they have absolutely zero to do with this.

alexa, your 5 explanations, while appreciated, are off. You asked where I live, I live in this place called the USA... maybe you've heard of it? lol

The article is about retailers in the USA doing this... retailers all over the world do this as confirmed by others in the thread.

btw this is a symptom of the economy... i think a lotta marketers are desperate to make the same money as before, and some resorted to sleazy things, dont condone it or agree...

also ...part of the blame goes on the customer... no one puts a gun to their head and makes them buy.

FTC saying we can't do it, no problem... my answer is what took so long?

i never resorted to shady stuff anyways, but it seems a bit odd... that another market is able to do the same thing they're telling you is deceitful.

its like saying alexa you can do this, but everyone else in here can't its illegal.

its about equality here folks.

if they're saying the FTC is saying we must do this, cool, no problemo... but how can another retailer do the same thing?

Thats the argument here.

Not my ethics

Not my not liking the rules

(I had zero things to change to my offer to be compliant with CB's new rules. when you have a good product that helps people, and good marketing you don't need to worry).

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

winlin and twp -- seriously?

my ethics?

How on earth did you concoct this magical story in your head?

Are you reading the same post I'm reading? It's in english you know.

I don't know you well enough to know whether your ethics should be questioned or not.

But most people who present questions of this nature are indicating a tendency to walk on the dark side of the ethics that we know and trust.

Perhaps you worded your OP badly. Perhaps I misread your intent.

A few weeks ago, a fellow was in the forum complaining that his country had been added to the "country ban" with the CPA networks.

He was upset that "he was honest", but he could not join a CPA network, UNLESS someone of standing within the network gave him a personal referral.

So he was asking for a "person of standing within a CPA network" to give him a "personal referral", based on the fact that he is a member of the WF.

What is different between his request, and your complaint that the pricing policies are being enforced online but not offline?

The only difference is you and him.

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DireStraits 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Christian Chan

Perhaps you spent way too much time on forums as your post count indicates. Dave is a well-known marketer. I don't know about you.

Evidently not to everyone.

Anyway, I'm casting no aspersions at all, but Bernie Madoff was a well-known investor. The News of the World was a well-known, long-running newspaper undoubtedly loved and respected by many of its regular readers, and its owner a well-known businessman. Dr. Harold Shipman was well-known and trusted among his patients. Michael Jackson (although cleared) was a well-known popstar respected by millions of fans. The list goes on.

Besides jumping at the opportunity to make a slightly demeaning, sarcastic remark in response to what was a perfectly valid comment echoed by numerous others in the thread, what is your point? :p
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Alastair McDermott

13 years ago

As Alexa mentioned, here in Ireland it is illegal for retailers to claim a sale price with a was €X unless the product truly was sold at €X for at least 30 days in the last 90. (My understanding is as an Irish online business I'm bound by the same law.)

I'm delighted with all the CB changes, I think I'll put my product on there now

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HigherPrThanGod

13 years ago

BTW,

I offer a course for $35 - Then on here I SLASH IT DOWN TO $15.

Don't WSO's operate under this very "LIE"?

Of course it's not always a lie.

It's why it works.

Once again, we have to spread the personal responsibility around to everyone but the two individuals involved in a single transaction.

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SageSound

13 years ago

Wouldn't it be far more effective to simply issue "75% OFF!" discount coupons instead of worrying about all this blather?

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Gary Ning Lo

13 years ago

I think it's a good thing..

Clickbank is just a mess now and hopefully they will start cleaning up//

There's tons of other marketing principles other than this one that you can use..

Cheers,

~Gary

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JimWaller

13 years ago

A comedian once asked if Walmart keeps rolling back their prices, shouldn't they eventually get to $0.00. (Anyone who shops there regularly knows the prices roll back and forth $1.00 => $1.25 => $1.00[rollback] =>$1.25)
Comparisons of pricing are normal in marketing "I offer this same product here for $gazillion but I'm giving it to you free" or raising the price so the perceived value is higher despite being the same exact product. (The reason why a $97 price tag might sell out while a $7 might be questioned as to the quality)
It's all about "what the market will bear". I've worked in the hospitality industry for over 22 years and it's criminal what theme parks charge for a hamburger.
With all of that said, I'm glad CB is trying to improve their image and are asking marketers to be ethical in actually having sold it for the price claimed. According to my wife, IMers (and more so, self improvement niche) are the modern day snake oil salesmen. With that perception being out there, self regulation has not worked so far.

To the OP, while it may not seem fair that other offline markets are not subject to the same rules, regulations, and standards, we have to accept the changes as they happen. If they don't make sense, the third parties (like CB and PayPal) will drop them, or people will go elsewhere. It's a variation of "caveate emptor" (let the buyer beware). In marketing terms, if you find a niche that isn't buying, you look for a different niche.

~goes to step down from soapbox, missteps and falls down~ :-)

Jim

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parsons130

13 years ago

Not sure, but maybe it is easier for big companies that have been doing this for years to tell the government they don't want this to happen/ use lobbyists - where as the internet doesnt have a big company that will say/pay the government.

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hblzr1

13 years ago

I think your "catch 22" about the government is in error

FTC GUIDES AGAINST DECEPTIVE PRICING
FTC GUIDES AGAINST DECEPTIVE PRICING

Perhaps Clickbank is finally getting its house in order.

Instead of ruminating about the who is doing what and who is getting away with it, why don't you model your marketing/ business around the FTC guidelines? They actually give you examples of what is deceptive.

There is even a discussion about MSRP
§233.3 Advertising retail prices which have been established or suggested by manufacturers (or other nonretail distributors).

Your post reminds me of a person selling drugs that gets caught and wonders why all the other drug sellers are still selling drugs.

Maybe something deeper is really troubling you. It's change. Not just any change but disruptive change. The online world is constantly changing, you know that already. But it seems that most online marketers have a hard time accepting this. When they believe they have developed a profitable business model they think they can sit back and relax. Then BAM something comes along that shakes their foundation.

The only way to mitigate this to operate from a position that there are numerous factors outside your business that are constantly changing and you need to adapt and move along with them.

"When the change on the outside exceeds change on the inside, the end is in sight."
-GE CEO jack Welch

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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by hblzr1

Your post reminds me of a person selling drugs that gets caught and wonders why all the other drug sellers are still selling drugs.

Very neatly put: that's exactly how I reacted to it. And still do, to be honest.

Originally Posted by hblzr1

The only way to mitigate this to operate from a position that there are numerous factors outside your business that are constantly changing and you need to adapt and move along with them.

That's good advice.

That seems to be very true, in general, of internet marketing. (Maybe it's true of all businesses, really, but the ways that apply specifically to internet marketing are just the ones we predominantly see and discuss here?).

The thing that always strikes me about threads here containing discussions like this is how easy it is, in a place where some people's businesses are to some extent "on display" in front of (part of) their target audiences - it's a marketing forum, after all - to come across as saying things like "I want to be able to lie to people and deceive them, like others can" even if that isn't exactly what one meant.

And I think that's why some people above are saying things like "duly noted".

People read threads like this and some decide from them (among other things) with whom they might (not) want to do business ... and who can blame them?

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Nikhil V Nair

13 years ago

This is what clickbank's new guideline
Vendor Promotional Messaging Guidelines

---------------------------
We Will NOT Allow:

* Sale pricing that suggests that a product previously sold at a higher price (when it really didn’t) but is now on sale for a lower price for a limited time.

We Will Allow:

* Real and genuine discounts from the normal price. Thus, if a vendor sold at $99 for a reasonable amount of time, it can drop the price to $79 and say, “$20 off!” The vendor cannot invent the $99 price, just to claim $79 is a sale price when it has always been sold for $79.
------------------------------

Sell your product at a higher price for a reasonable amount of time then give discount. Now you are safe.

* I still have no clue what they mean by "reasonable amount of time".

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mr2monster

13 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

so apparently with these new Clickbank rules (via FTC or something) one of the things is you cant state the purchase price was x amount and is now selling for z amount?

I just want to point out a 'catch 22' from our lovely governmental agency.

just read this in a yahoo article talking about outlet malls:

Merchandise at outlet stores usually comes with a price tag that prominently displays both the retail and the outlet price: “Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price $100, Our Price $25.” The tags lead customers to believe that they’re getting a huge discount.

But the truth is that the listed MSRP is whatever the store wants it to be—there’s no guarantee that the item is really worth that much, or that it was ever listed for that price at a retail store.

This trick, called “reference pricing,” is widely used to assuage shoppers’ anxieties and loosen their purse strings by convincing them that they’re saving more money than they’ve spent.

Why are they able to do this, without ANY ramifications and we, online, are getting butchered and shut down for the same exact thing?

Makes zero sense.

You're (or the author on yahoo is) confused.

MSRP is Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price and comes from the MANUFACTURER... The stores don't set this MSRP... The MANUFACTURER does..

It's not the store saying "this used to be 100, now you can get it for $25".. It's the store saying "The manufacturer suggests that we sell it at $100, but we're going to sell it at $25 and save you some cash"..

In fact, you could do the same thing with information products, really, if you used your imagination.

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DireStraits

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mr2monster

You're (or the author on yahoo is) confused.

MSRP is Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price and comes from the MANUFACTURER... The stores don't set this MSRP... The MANUFACTURER does..

It's not the store saying "this used to be 100, now you can get it for $25".. It's the store saying "The manufacturer suggests that we sell it at $100, but we're going to sell it at $25 and save you some cash"..

In fact, you could do the same thing with information products, really, if you used your imagination.

And anyone who dares advance the argument that "nobody ever pays attention to these MSRP/RRPs anyway - they're grossly inflated and the product would never sell for that price" clearly hasn't visited their local corner convenience store. I think I've even seen those cheeky chappies selling products slightly above those guide prices, and have yet to see many go out of business! On the contrary, their proprietors always seem to sport the latest model Mercedes-Benz or BMW. :rolleyes:

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Alexa Smith Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by DireStraits

I've even seen those cheeky chappies selling products slightly above those guide prices, and have yet to see many go out of business!

Indeed.

Originally Posted by DireStraits

On the contrary, their proprietors always seem to sport the latest model Mercedes-Benz or BMW.

Well, some people apparently like buying German cars ... "go figure" ...
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- DireStraits 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith
  
  Well, some people apparently like buying German cars ... "go figure" ...
  
  Ach, jaw-dropping! On the plus side, there are plenty Euros there to earn, and German tarts are wunderschön. German beer is chemical-free, Germany's alright with me.
  
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sal64

13 years ago

Oh cr@p...

More transparency and accountability. What next?

will they ban those scripts which change the offer expiry date?

It's a bit like putting BS values on bonuses.

The consumer is getting smarter. Time to wake up and smell the reality.

As for the offline stuff...

Imported goods will always vary in price due to the exchange rate fluctuations.

Most of the stores I visit usually put a new price sticker over the original one.

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rosetrees

13 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

so apparently with these new Clickbank rules (via FTC or something) one of the things is you cant state the purchase price was x amount and is now selling for z amount?................

Why are they able to do this, without ANY ramifications and we, online, are getting butchered and shut down for the same exact thing?

One question for you. Why would you personally want to lie to your customers?

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Chris Worner

13 years ago

Those dirty B*stards, how dare they allow others to cheat but not me

-Chris

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Anonymous Affiliate

13 years ago

There's been too much rampant BS going on in Clickbank on some specific "dirty" niches (IM, Forex, etc). It's totally normal that Clickbank is trying to bring the BS factor down because I'd assume their reputation's being hurt but their shady vendors.

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davemiz

13 years ago

guys i agree with the new CB rules... sad there has to be 'rules to make you do the right thing.... and a shame the ftc has to get involved for people not to outright lie and scam.

(like i said before, its a symptom of the economy.)

in fact, if you've been doing the right thing, and have a good product, you probably didn't have a thing to change like some of us.

rosetreese... what planet are you on to concoct the story and question? seriously. can't answer stupid questions from people with no reading comprehension.

thanks christian... lol... direstraites... no worries bro... not here to be famous... but ...have a look at your join date mr. 2008 before you open the mouth.

some of the comments are absurd

its not about whos able to 'cheat' and who's not... yet, its amazing how some of you guys take things and twist them into new concoctions.

its selling to consumers.... if you're telling me this is illegal and misleading, then how can you police one person yet not another?

how does that make sense?

that is the point of my post.

thats like telling us, everyone in here is getting a ticket for running a red light, yet alexa isnt getting ticketed for doing the same thing.

how would that make sense?

level playing field here folks.... if you're saying its misleading, then go after EVERYONE doing this.

And surely the money the slimy marketers got online in our small little IM niche, PALES in comparison to the amounts retailers make each year doing the same exact thing.

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new Clickbank rule - catch 22?

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