The Real Truth About the Warrior Forum and the Ethical Dilemma

I think the way Paul Myers phrased it is beeyooteeful...

Sell 'em what they want
Give 'em what they bought
Sneak in what they need...

Brian

Because alot of "simple systems to make fast money" ARE NOT simple systems to make fast money. They are just appealing to the emotions of the buyer- and rarely deliver. If you can't over deliver in your promise, you'll be shut down eventually by a competitor that does.

And some of the most successful marketers ARE NOT in the "IM" - make money industry. But it is an "easy" industry to "make money".

Of course they want fast money. Look at the lottery, casinos, ect. Thats the type of mentality they are selling to. Most of those people are not entreprenurs. And this may be part of the reason why the people they sell to don't succeed.

Nope, because they all want to make money- and thats fine.

The only thing that matters is your customers, as you would not have a business with out them. are you're customers happy? Do they tell others about you? How many times do they buy from you again?

"There is only one boss. The customer. And he can fire everybody in the company from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money somewhere else."





Sam Walton

"A customer is not an interruption of our work...he is the purpose of it. We are not doing a favor by serving him...he is doing us a favor by giving us the opportunity to do so."
Leon Leonwood Bean

Even the "righteous marketers" are selling these systems. Have you read a sales letter lately?

I've yet to run across one that said that it will take you 12 months to actually afford to quit your job and work from home.

The funny thing is, if you actually did have a system that was literally plug-and-play, all the user had to do is spend one minute and they would get magical sums of money, most wouldn't do it. You could tell them exactly what they had to do, a lot of them would either be suspicious, and not believe it, or are even be too lazy to even sign up for something for one minute.

It does seem though, that most people do not all, but most people, who seem to want something for nothing.but, the thing is -- if they got it, they get bored really quickly, and not understand why. Not only the money that is important, but it's the growing process, the learning process the things that you get in between -- from not having money, to having money. When you get rich quick, you kind of miss out on that.

At least people that sell quality IM systems that have nothing to do with mlm etc. give their customers a real chance at success provided the customer is willing to follow a plan of action.

The mlm huckers actually know that their prospects will never make any money.

The prospects are told that all they have to do is signup and then place their ads at bix op hangouts and presto the money will flow.

TL

Schizophrenic is a very good description.

I always wonder, when I see threads talking about how lazy people starting out in IM are, if they have read any sales pages.



If you advertise that your system takes little work to implement it.

If you advertise that your system takes little work to operate after it is setup.

If you advertise that your customers can make X amount of dollars right away.

Why wouldn't your customers expect to do very little work and make alot of money?

Hey Ron ...

You pose an interesting situation.

I've been in and around this industry for quite some time, and I have seen a ton of evolutions in the marketing of internet marketing products. Some of it good, some of it bad ... but all of it an education.

Perhaps because I'm looking back through this time frame ... I don't see any particular form of marketing or "money making system" as either good or bad. As the saying goes ... it is what it is.

I know that we all see the "make $10,000 in a day" type sales letters out there ... perhaps because some of those sales letters work.

There is nothing wrong with a "flashy" or "in your face marketing pieces" ... ONLY IF THE PRODUCT DOES DELIVER THE GOODS THAT ARE PROMISED!

THAT is my biggest complaint? Marketers who have a great sales letter, flashy marketing piece, a simple or involved product ... yet DO NOT deliver something of VALUE to the consumer!

Simple system? "Long Hours" system? ... it doesn't matter, as LONG AS THE SYSTEMS CAN WORK! (notice I didn't say WILL work ... that depends on the user of the program or system). If the product is crap, the product is crap. It doesn't matter if it's simple or flashy or has a "grandiose" salesletter.

Short story.

I created an internet marketing training product that provided a combination of simple systems WITH a long term "game plan" and my original sales letter and promotions were very "noble" in my approach. (basically the "less flashy" sales letter). SALES WERE MISERABLE!

I took the product, rebranded it a bit and made some changes and "spiced up" the sales letter and marketing and SALES WERE INCREDIBLE!

The quote from Paul Myers (that Brian mentioned)

Sell 'em what they want ...
Give 'em what they bought ...
Sneak in what they need ...

Is the key. BUT be sure to ALWAYS provide something of value to the end consumer.

Just my opinion ...

Ethics? You want questionable ethics?

How about a computer repair shop, putting $2000 markup in a single piece of hardware that wasn't even in stock. They quoted it and then ordered it for the customer.

But your Filsaime quote was a perfect example of what people want. If you notice the thread with the most views was "Stupidly Simple Cash Cow and Its Free". So basically they want money. They want it fast. They don't want to do any work for it. And they don't want to pay a single penny to get it.

Crazy world we live in. In summary, they want their money for nothing, and their chicks for free. :p

Hi Nathan,

I really like your lottery analogy. But I have to say that if everyone based their ethics on the example set by the state we would all be in a seriously philistine predicament.

Satirical EG -

What to do if your neighbour accidentally lops off one of the branches while pruning their side of the tree. What do you do?

State-style solution - withdraw all diplomats from the embassy and encourage the rest of the street to launch trade embargos and sanctions against the careless lopper.

You have two children who both go car washing seperately - one is lazy, makes mistakes and doesn't seem to care and ends up losing his customers. The other is diligent, useful, keen to learn and impress and his customers are delighted and pay him a bonus. How do you divide their pocket money?

State-style solution - tax the diligent one because he earns more and give it to the lazy one to spend on fast food to eat while he stays home on car wash day.

...........

We need to set an example to the state with our actions, and anyone else who is watching, rather than excusing ourselves because we were only copying others' obviously unethical actions. Bear in mind that Joe Public is already wasting his money on a lottery ticket. By showing him how to change his mindset and break out of the 'program', and then pointing him towards wiser investments we can make a living, without selling him an unrealistic dream.

As the new kid, I'm guilty of reading those posts even though I know in my heart that it's doin' the research, building the sites and split testing them is what's really going to make money. In fact, I should be doing that right NOW instead of posting on this forum!

All the hype really turns me off. If the pitch carries on page after page beyond the fold, it seems like they're trying too hard and if that's the case then the farther I read the more it loses value. But hey, that's just me. I'm probably not the average buyer.

Also, the fact that so many marketers don't proofread the material before they publish is astonishing. If the sales pitch is full of typos then what is the e-book going to look like?

I realize that many marketers are not native English speakers and if they are going to capture the USA market they they need to get someone who is a native speaker to check the grammar.

Uh oh, I feel a new niche business coming on......

everybody here needs to read P.T. Barnum's pamphlet
"The Art Of Money Getting" - it's actually very, very down
to earth and tells you how not to be a consumer but be
a producer instead. He explains how people let money
slip through their fingers - which is what many, many of
our customers do.

He tells you how to get the money from the people who
want to spend what they have and he tells you how to
keep what you get, which can be challenging, and why
keep it (so you can use it to do bigger, more meaningful
things with it).

Barnum was the ultimate promoter but he was not a shallow
man. He gave the common people what they wanted but
he also freely taught how to do what he was doing.

It's in the public domain. Go get it, stop bitching about
bad advertising and start learning how to do it well yourself.

If the market is begging for it, now if you don't create and sell
it to them, then someone else will...

We can't blame anyone for seeing an opportunity and taking
advantage of it, this is what all the big boys teaches isn't it
or am I missing something...

No if people want the quick fix and don't want to work hard
and would rather have someone else do the work for them
then why shouldn't someone sell them that service...

--David

Cooked fish on a plate and you eat it and paying just a little? Is it a viable business model?
I have searching for a product that will help everyone money. I have searching and searching ......

Good one, I should tell me Doctor to prescribe me some Valium or sommat from time to time..

On a serious note, good post... it just goes to show you how many people are interested in another view or wanting to learn a new skill.

Roger,

It makes perfect sense to me.

I to could go on... but I won't. Just glad it makes sense to someone else lol.

Tom

To give credit where credit is due, Yanik Silver was using that phrase liberally WELL before Mike F. and who knows, Yanik might have got it from somewhere else.

Fact is people respond emotionally and justify their actions with logic.

So savvy marketers apeal to fear, greed, lust and so on. That's why sexy or scandalous headines on either a sales letter or forum post will always get a lot of views.

Sneak in what they need ... do all the guys do that. Some do sometimes, but some dont.

i think marketers who make their product sound like money can be made fast and easy are just clever. I've clicked the links and read the ebooks, and making money never seems fast and easy, no matter what the headline reads.

And 0 in 175,711,536 if you don't play!

chuck

Hey, I really did that though My purpose was to show people something that would work and prove it in real-time. I never thought the thread would get so much exposure. If you look at the trends, most people will try to do things the easy way, all other things being equal. This business like any other worth being in takes lots of work and planning. Unless you have an experienced mentor, you try many methods until you find one that works for you. If this business were easy, it would already be saturated!

TomG.