.... just sitting on my ass dreaming of fresh popcorn. With butter, easy on the salt.

I'll give you $10 for it lol

Do I have to get up and go get it?

I used to have no sympathy for people that should have the mental capacity to make decisions with money, but made stupid decisions. Now, my old age has softened me a bit. Now I kinda think it goes both ways. Ultimately, the responsiblity in any situation is on the buyer. But that doesn't mean that scumbag sellers shouldn't feel a little guilty. Just like a crack dealer shouldn't put all the blame on the addict.

But to your question, I don't think there are many buyers that actually KNOW upfront they aren't going to pursue it. They have good intentions.

Getting excited about a purchase is not unique to MMO products. Several years back I bought a new flatscreen for my basement and couldn't wait for it to arrive. I've probably watched it for maybe 100 hours because I'd rather be upstairs at my house.

Same thing here.

I have to agree with you a point. And that is when I buy a product I have every attention of following through on what the author recommends. I follow thorough for a period of time, even make a sale or two.

Then I check my email from someone that I've been following and low and behold a new product launch! I read it, watch the video, get enticed with the possibility and viola, my focus get skewed and the target that I've been aiming for is now pushed even further away.

The way that I've since remedied this situation (because I've done this for years now) when I check my email no matter how enticing the subject line might be or whether it's from someone I know who is probably pitching a great product.

I simply archive the message to be read '' I've completed the project I'm currently working on and making sure that it gets my undivided attention.

But are they "taking advantage of the dreamers" or are they giving them what they really crave?

I think that a lot of the serial buyers know in their heart of hearts that they are not really going to do anything, but buying another product makes them feel productive. And reading the new product while comparing it with the past products makes them feel smart.

Productive and Smart are pretty entertaining.

It's much the same with people who collect stacks of gourmet cookbooks, pore over them for hours at a time, and end up nuking a frozen dinner anyway.

PS - Thanks to all who replied so far... (conserving my thanks button count so I don't stiff anybody )

Agree wholeheartedly. I've purchased a few wordpress tools and have been happy with them but most everything in there is worthless.

That's not necessarily a valid argument.

Different methods may have different underlying principles. Yes, human nature is the same, but ways to get an emotional reaction are different for different people.

When you buy a product, keep in mind that there is only one way to find out what really works - and that's by actual seeing an idea through (a.k.a taking action)

People love to buy... but no one likes being sold to.... That said... as long as the sales pitch is not to hyped.. and it sounds real... people will buy as long as the sales keep coming. The act of buying actually releases endorphins and makes you feel good. This is the same release known as a "runners high".

I like the way Alan refers to himself as a "victim" of Bowflex's marketing and then admits he never used the damn thing.

Of course, he really isn't saying that. But so many people do have that mentality. They are eternal "victims" - even if they don't follow the instructions.

As long as your product will do what you say it will do, you are not scamming anyone. As far as I recall, Bowflex always said you had to use the thing for it to work.

Same with most infoproducts. You have to put the info to use for it to be any good. if the buyer does not, that's not the seller's fault.

My sentiments enitrely.

A good quote that I saw recently:

"never mistake activity for acomplishment"

I have have been guilty of being the 'perpetual student' in the past but am now focused on the end result. I'll willing buy into a 'dream' as long as the product delivers what it says it will deliver.Then it's up to me to implement the method.

As long as the product that I have purchased is everything as described in the sales page, then it's my problem if I don't achieve the results.

Achieving my dreams are my responsibility.

I agree with Sal,

As product creators it is our responsibility to bring the truth on how things work in our niche not just by giving concepts, but by doing things and then sharing others how we made things happen.

Do this and you're not deceiving anybody.

So true. I was in offline shop floor sales for over ten years, in a highly competitive industry. On my first day's training it was exactly about selling the dream.

I know we had to use the word 'imagine' a lot when selling.

yes i agree with you mikemc selling the dream is what thier good at without it they wuldn't make a dime

Not ok for who? The salesman or the guy that made an irresponsible choice?

Is that really part of the dream or part of the sales copy -the way that it is associated with the dream it is usually positioned as a solution. You play by inference and you play by association - but you still play.

The sales copy creates an expectation of a product. I think as has been said earlier in this thread, a lot of the time the two don't match.

Was that wise man your marriage councilor?

Good ad copy - or an outrageous headline promise - can't convince you to buy anything. It leads you to create a dream vision in your own mind - and that dream appeals because it is YOUR vision of what YOU want to happen in YOUR life.

I found long ago I could avoid buying many things if I just waited 24 hours to make the purchase. From clothing to furniture to IM products, often that dream in your mind becomes more realistic in a day's time.

Very few wild dreams survive a cooling off time period.

kay

I personally never understood why someone would put forth all the time and effort into creating an ebook or opportunity , just so they can scam others. Being the victim of a scam or two in my day , I always wondered why some people would'nt put forth the same effort into creating something worthwhile.

I simple hate the feeling of ordering a product only to find out I've been the victim of the bait and switch, or their something missing from the program or worse, it has nothing to do with the product you thought you
were ordering.


On the other hand when you find a great opportunity, I believe it's your
responsibilty to atleast put forth the effort to try it out and see it through.

If at first you don't succeed it doesn't mean it was a scam, It may just mean you need to try a little harder.

I know some people who never even order the program, system or opportunity and they are saying its a scam when they never tried it out.


I guess in the end they all sound great on paper.

It's like the law of attraction , so many people think they can just wish, and hope and imagine things into existence.

Sorry to say but nothing beats good ole fashion action speaks loader than words.

If the results promised in the sales letter have no chance
of being achieved - no matter how hard the person tries -
then it's a scam. Period.

Making thousands of dollars per month by clicking a few
buttons has no basis in reality - for most prospects.

People who sell those type of BS products are scammers
and should be wiped off the face of the WSO Forum,
ClickBank and elsewhere.

Without a doubt irresponsible buyers are a part of the
problem. But the biggest part of the problem is unethical
sellers who have no qualms about selling a BS pipe dream
that can't be achieved no matter how hard someone tries.

It reminds me of the illicit drugs industry - you've got the
drugs, the drug taker and the drug seller.

Some drug pushers sell drugs that are the real deal and
'work' as intended - and it's what junkies want.

Other drug pushers cut their drugs with filler such as talc
to make more money for the same amount of drugs - even
though some junkies lose their eyesight or have amputations
over that kinda stuff.

Without unethical sellers - of drugs, infoproducts or anything
else - there would be no scams. But in the real world, there's
no shortage of wankers with ethical bypasses who are prepared
to step in and knowingly supply BS products.

I choose to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Dedicated to mutual success,

Shaun

Hi Chri5123,

This fallacy comes up in every one of these discussions.

'Because beer is sold in this way, then it must be OK for me to sell things this way too.'

But what if that beer commercial is unethical or morally wrong?

A few posts back Shaun claimed that he successfully sells things but never in that way, hence your statement is false - 'EVERYTHING' is not sold in that way, unless Shaun is lying.

Hi AnonymousAffiliate,

It's not actually a personal attack, it's actually a legitimate and logical assertion.

Plus, your response avoids answering the question.

You are stating that these figures are for your results. Kurt was asking about a promise you have made regarding others gaining these results.

[DELETED]

Good lord, I wholeheartedly agree! There's too much daddy-like regulation, and too little self-accountability!

Great reply to the original post. What I've found is that especially, now in these economic times people are looking for Easy, Fast, Quick, Instant, ways to earn money. Possibly their situations have cause them to be in such dire straights, which leads to irrational expectations, which leads to illusional results.

My recommendation is before you buy anything especially online, do your due diligence (Google is at your disposal) and check out the person, the product that you are considering before spending your money.

At least get some assure from other people who've had experience with the product/service. Secondly, after you've done your research and actually have bought the product or service now it is up to you to follow thorough with it.

Get off the merry go round and take Action.

What's a four letter word for 'action'? It's called

There is definitely a fine line between enticing (but accurate/true) sales copy and blatant misrepresentation and hype, but without good (and ethical) sales copy you would find yourself hard-pressed to sell anything online.

There's nothing wrong with ethical marketing, if done properly. You see marketing all around you in the physical world, and I'm pretty sure many of us have been subjected to the late-night infomercials that border very closely on hype, yet stay within the guidelines of the FTC and other marketing authorities.

Without some "window dressing" in the form of marketing that appeals to the masses, multinational companies like Apple, Sony and Motorola would not have been able to sell their products on such a massive scale.

This fine line is definitely crossed sometimes with WSOs, but that's wherethe mods and members (with their ability to self-police) can help. Of course, no system is ever foolproof, but I think this comes fairly close.

I buy some things for what I consider "entertainment purposes only."

I even have some "friends" who fall into that category. lol

Anyway, I think the majority of those are not so much scammed but more so misinformed on what they are buying. They are convinced they need a ferrari when they really could do just fine with a little scooter.

I would have no clue how to handle or drive a Ferrari. For that reason alone I would never get one - or want one if it was being just handed over to me for free.

Heck, I don't even want a scooter. Too loud, and while I was turned on by them years ago - like a vintage vespa type thing - I wouldn't want it today. I love how they look, but it is not a sensible purchase knowing myself.

I really think I could do some serious damage with an electric bicycle! But even recently I realized it would be purely for entertainment and not feasible for regular transport to and from downtown (about 7 miles). Only because we get a LOT of fog here and in the end a car would be a million times more effective and safer to stick with.

I actually have some WSO's that are products - not MMO plans - which I still have yet to use. Was I scammed because I felt compelled for some reason to purchase? Maybe

No. Not really .

There is actually a sales ploy or tactic - I heard about it recently and it makes a LOT of sense. And something that I myself realized I used to do.

I would buy some clothes or things I didn't really need - because they were on sale. Not just any sale but they were like 90 percent off or something silly like that that how could I say no? I felt like I was saving a TON of money, yet did I really need what I was getting? Some were clothes that had the tags still on them. I held onto them for 10 years on some of them - and never wore them. Or they were items I never wound up using.

Not sure if it has been the massive amount of times I have had to move in the last few years or with age comes wisdom but I finally realized it was time to let a lot of things go. I had dreams with those things. That is all it was. And I did get the rush from spending and thinking I was saving so much.

Good will has some really nice things now. And in the end it did feel good that those things may help someone who really does need them.

We have a lot of folks calling scam when it is not. But we also do have a good amount of charlatans (they don't even know they are) with some of the offers in the WSO.

In the end, people need to take a step back, know what they really want. Or accept what they are buying is purely for entertainment purposes only.

You people are freaking amazing!

I posted this expecting it to go like most of the threads I start - get a few replies and sink into the lower pages.

Instead, we're on the third page of mostly thoughtful replies, including a bunch of people we don't see come out to play very often.

Again, thanks to all, and keep it coming...

Could this debate be, at least in part, 'generational'?

I recently read an AMAZING issue of Ben Settle's ezine, where he
pointed out some advantages 'Gen-X' ers have over preceding Boomers,
or the subsequent 'Gen Y'ers.

A quote:

and he goes on to highlight 4 major distinctions, before ending with:

Think there's something to it as it pertains to "buying without
thinking" - and then "blaming without taking responsibility" that's
going around this discussion?

All success
Dr.Mani

You're not telling me your actually going to come back in 30 days and pay me are you? Even the briefest examination of human character will tell you that is going to lead to only one thing...a lot of waiting.

Net 30, mmm. I would have to prove that the buyer got value to demand the money via a legal process of debt collection? Not sure that would work too well on the internet for information and how to products. It would probably work ok for a plumber or local service because you can go and bang on their door but how do I chase someone half a world away who may not even be who they say they are after 30 days?

I would rather offer a guarantee. "...listen, you pay me and I'll give you my product as a fair exchange and I'll give you back your money within 30 days if you can prove what I say is not true, will not work as claimed...etc". I think a guarantee works better than "please promise to pay me if you like it".

I'm the only one at risk with a "pay me later if you like it" model online. I risk losing income if you don't want to pay for something you've already consumed.

Personally I think the real issue is overstated sales copy. Headlines can be swept aside, I scroll so fast past all the testimonials it's a blur but the core promise must be clear and leave room for over delivery. Normal good business practices apply here as they do anywhere and have done for thousands of years. Quality + Value = Good commerce. The market will sort you out soon enough.

Hi WSOHelp (post #132),

With respect, you haven't been around here that long, have you? The statement I have quoted above is clearly incorrect.

Hi Thomas (Belknap - post#124),

I think we need to remember that some peoples' only experiences of the internet are -

a) a handful of clickbank sales pages that appear to show (to the untrained eye) videos and proof of exactly this, along with videos of real Ferraris etc

b) Mainstream media stories of people in their basements making websites that these people know of, which sell for billions (youtube, facebook etc)

c) stories of the dotcom boom

Most people commenting here on the one side of the argument (not you Thomas, you offered a balanced opinion of which I only quoted a part) are forgetting that due to life experiences or internet marketing exposure, they have developed certain critical thinking skills in terms of spotting BS and scams.

There are people out there who have lived relatively sheltered lives and in civilised societies (I'm not too sure if ours qualifies as that currently in the West) those people are (or should be) typically protected from inflated, misleading and nefarious claims within marketing material.

Just because someone is lacking in critical thinking skills does not mean that they 'deserve what they get' - it does not give anyone a license to mislead them in order to extract money from them.

There is a reason for this and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work it out, particularly if you consider what is happening in our societies currently.

Generalising somewhat - those people who lack those thinking skills often do so because they don't need those skills very often, because they choose to live in a kind of bubble, the opposite kind of bubble to the one that someone who calls themselves 'Gordon Gecko' and adopts the mantra 'greed is good' lives in.

The first person's bubble is more often than not the one where it's perfectly acceptable to do things purely out of the goodness of their heart for someone else - because they can and because they enjoy it and it makes them feel good.

If we allow the Gordon Geckos of the world to take everything from those people by stealth, what kind of world is left?

:rolleyes:

Obviously, Ken, but you missed the point and avoided mine and other's question:

Again, why should a WSO merchant give away their product for free or be labeled a scammer?

When you apply for college, do you tell them "Yeah, I'll pay you guys tuition only after I'm done and IF I get a high-paying job and I want to. Wait, you're not ok with that? You're scammers!"

When you buy a car do you tell the dealership "You say your cars can last up to 100,000 miles? Great, I'll only pay you if and when I drive the car to 100,000 miles. That's not OK? What?! You must be scammers!"

...I think you see the point. If you only want to get worthwhile things for free, then stick to the very limited number of things in this world that will allow you to do that.

The rest of us understand that personal responsibility means looking at a product's details, terms of purchase, warranty or return period, and the merchant's history and reputation and making our own decisions as adults and businesspeople.

I love people using the Macdonald's coffee case to support their argument!


Customer = stupid tire kicker after easy money

Seller = ethical company just filling a demand


The facts of the case are that Macdonald's were selling scalding hot coffee that they knew was dangerous but they didn't care.

The Actual Facts about the Mcdonalds' Coffee Case


And here's the kicker


Martin

Nope. There's more to it than just throwing money out the window and downloading something. And until you understand that, please do not buy my products.

No I don't.

I also don't promise what I can't deliver.

You know it makes sense.



PS: So what's so good about farting in silk sheets? Do they sound better or smell nicer?

If people keep on buying products after products, it is called Zeigarnik effect.

Well, you are welcome to be the first.

If they did that you wouldnt buy it, because it wouldnt sound sexy enough for you...You'd probably go and buy the same old junk you usually buy, becuase its sounds sexier

Exactly, fast "food" is legal even though it harms the body, so are cigattes and alcohol.

The biggest weird thing is the lack of responsibility people have for their action.

Look, even the whole premise of "IM" is wrong in the first place (as far as building a sustainable business is concerned). That's because saying "I'm going to start a business. I will use this medium, and this medium alone, no matter what. " That's not smart.

So, what do you expect when you search for the magic pill. If people are not ashamed to say "if I were to use my common sense..." in public, it just shows the state of our society.