Threatening to take legal action?

13 years ago

He is probably trying to scare you for putting a negative review out about his product.

Either way, I would take it down ASAP and notify him.

Imagine if you had a product that Affiliate marketers wrote negative things about without even trying the product, just to get sales on another product. - I'm not saying that's what you are doing, but it may come across that way.

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Chiayee 13 years ago

[QUOTE=dadamson;4674853]Imagine if you had a product that Affiliate marketers wrote negative things about without even trying the product, just to get sales on another product. [QUOTE]

Opps... I am found guilty!

The product basically promises the moon, something similar to "Slim down your tummy with my stupid gadget! No exercsie, no pills, no diet required!"

So on my page I explained why this doesn't make sense.

Anyway Dadamson you are right, I shall take down the page soon.

CY
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AutumnAngel

13 years ago

To give your opinion ie "I don't like this product" is fine. But you have stated something as a fact (not an opinion) "that the claims for the product is not based on scientific proof" that may or maynot be true.

The onus is on you to prove your statement (fact) is true. Can you prove the the company do not have any scientific proof to back up their claims? If not then you would best to remove the comment pretty swiftly!

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JamesGw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by AutumnAngel

To give your opinion ie "I don't like this product" is fine. But you have stated something as a fact (not an opinion) "that the claims for the product is not based on scientific proof" that may or maynot be true.

The onus is on you to prove your statement (fact) is true. Can you prove the the company do not have any scientific proof to back up their claims? If not then you would best to remove the comment pretty swiftly!

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. If he wants to bring on a defamation suit, it's up to the plaintiff to prove that the statements are false. Not the other way around.

Then again, I'm not a lawyer but that's how I understand it.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by JamesGw

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. If he wants to bring on a defamation suit, it's up to the plaintiff to prove that the statements are false. Not the other way around.

Then again, I'm not a lawyer but that's how I understand it.

Regardless of whether the plaintiff must prove defamation or slander, the OP must pay a lawyer to defend his position.

To those who scoff at the advice of buying a lawyer's advice, if he doesn't buy the advice now, he will need to buy the representation later if he does get sued.

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DanielDeus

13 years ago

The URL you give above is a dead link - if you could correct it then we might be able to look at it.

I am not a lawyer. The bottom line is if they are serious about taking action then they will, and they will contact you via the appropriate channels. That is not via a comment on your blog.

On a personal-assessment level, I would not take too seriously a legal action communication

1. Made in the first-person "I'm going to..."
2. Made as a comment on your blog.

I would personally not read that as someone who is too serious. I might be wrong, but that would be my initial assessment.

You might do well to have a quick read up on defamation.

Defamation: “A false accusation of an offense or a malicious misrepresentation of someone's words or actions”
Source: wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

If your comments are within the bounds of reality and truth then they would have a very hard time trying to prove defamation

Personally (assuming what you put on your site is not untrue) then if it were me then
I would ignore this person. To me it seems they are trying – and failing – to play hardball

I would just make sure - and double check - that you can justify what you say

Again, you should seek your own legal counsel

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CyberSorcerer

13 years ago

Well if you don't want trouble or anything then you should go on the defensive and take it down.

Myself, I'm known for being outspoken and speaking my mind. I have given bad reviews on A LOT of top marketers and only had 2 serious threats but nothing coming from it. Defamation is VERY HARD to prove.

I do have to mention that I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice, it's just my opinion and what I do and am known for doing. I do have lawyers myself that handle all my legal actions, which would be my advice to you if you are going to keep it up.

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Fictional

13 years ago

99% of the time, people who threat you will take no action.
If I were you, I'd just ignore him.

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Exel 13 years ago

It is more than likely that he is just trying to scare you and has no intention
of suing you. If the guy had been serious about taking legal action he wouldn't
have threaten you via blog comments but would have had his lawyer contact
you and in a civilized manner explain the situation to you.

If you don't want any hassle and it is not very important for you just remove
it. In the case that you go to court it's just not worth it to waste time and
energy for nothing.
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nicheblogger75 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Fictional

99% of the time, people who threat you will take no action.
If I were you, I'd just ignore him.

Ditto. Until you get a cease and desist letter from a lawyer (which you probably won't), don't sweat it.
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- guitarjosh 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by nicheblogger75
  
  Ditto. Until you get a cease and desist letter from a lawyer (which you probably won't), don't sweat it.
  
  Agreed here too. All you "get a lawyer" guys are cracking me up.
  
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Alan Petersen 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Fictional

99% of the time, people who threat you will take no action.
If I were you, I'd just ignore him.

And 98% of all statistics are made up (including this one).

Even if your made up statistic were true, that's still a roll of the dice that the OP won't be in the 1% having to deal with a costly legal battle.

Moot point, since he took it down, but just saying.
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Ga RedNeck

13 years ago

Ive had many threats in my life and nothing have come out of them but you have to decide if its worth the headache in the end.

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Rus Sells

13 years ago

BLA BLA BLA!!!

Let them send an official DCMA notice FIRST, otherwise to me its just beating the war drums.

If your review is based in FACT it might not be considered defamation anyways, I'm not a lawyer so you should find out from one.

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kindsvater

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

BLA BLA BLA!!!

Let them send an official DCMA notice FIRST, otherwise to me its just beating the war drums.

That can be a life altering mistake.

First, a DMCA notice will not apply because it is for copyright issues, and is meant to protect a website owner from bad commentary posted by others.

It does not apply to what you write yourself.

Second, the OP already received a legal warning.

You want to force them to file a lawsuit? That's nuts.

There is no requirement that a legal warning be provided before a lawsuit is filed. My office sometimes will do that. Just drop a lawsuit on someone.

Forum bravado is always easy and cheap until you get served with a summons.

While it is true that many "threats" are just that and nothing ever comes of them, to risk putting your neck in a noose because you want an "official" DMCA notice, whatever that is, may not be the best course of action.

But hey, all that is potentially at stake is your sleeping at night for the next year, having to explain the situation to your spouse and family, and the assets you have worked hard all your life to accumulate.

.

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Rus Sells

13 years ago

OK man!

I sit here corrected! = |

Yeah its really not a actionable offense under the DCMA. So that probably is not a good idea.

Thanks for setting me straight!

Originally Posted by kindsvater

That can be a life altering mistake.

First, a DMCA notice will not apply because it is for copyright issues, and is meant to protect a website owner from bad commentary posted by others.

It does not apply to what you write yourself.

Second, the OP already received a legal warning.

You want to force them to file a lawsuit? That's nuts.

There is no requirement that a legal warning be provided before a lawsuit is filed. My office sometimes will do that. Just drop a lawsuit on someone.

Forum bravado is always easy and cheap until you get served with a summons.

While it is true that many "threats" are just that and nothing ever comes of them, to risk putting your neck in a noose because you want an "official" DMCA notice, whatever that is, may not be the best course of action.

But hey, all that is potentially at stake is your sleeping at night for the next year, having to explain the situation to your spouse and family, and the assets you have worked hard all your life to accumulate.

.

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E. Brian Rose 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

BLA BLA BLA!!!

Let them send an official DCMA notice FIRST, otherwise to me its just beating the war drums.

A DMCA takedown notice has nothing to do with a defamation claim.
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- Rus Sells 13 years ago
  
  Yeah Brian, I just got schooled in that area. thanks tho! lol
  
  Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose
  
  A DMCA takedown notice has nothing to do with a defamation claim.
  
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  E. Brian Rose 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Rus Sells
  
  Yeah Brian, I just got schooled in that area. thanks tho! lol
  
  LOL I didn't see the previous posts. Sorry, didn't mean to beat a dead horse!
  
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  Rus Sells 13 years ago
  
  Turn me into glue why don't you!
  
  Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose
  
  LOL I didn't see the previous posts. Sorry, didn't mean to beat a dead horse!
  
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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

Sounds like you did not buy and use the product and are just using the old good review, bad review technique of trying to make affiliate sales. So you're bashing someone else's product to sell things on your site.

I've never thought that was a good idea. If you're going to trash someone's product, you might do well to at least try it first.

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Brendon Zahrndt

13 years ago

If you stand by your claim, take it to the house.

In other words, put your money where your mouth is.

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Tina Golden 13 years ago

As long as your review makes it clear that this is your opinion, they have no grounds for legal action. We are still allowed to have and voice our own opinions on our own properties. I would leave it up.

And it doesn't matter if you've actually tried it, either. There are a lot of things out there that are not based on scientific fact. There is an ear candling product on Clickbank that supposedly will help tinnitus. Ear candling is not scientifically based and has been proven to be dangerous. I don't have to try that product to be able to state that it's been shown to be unsafe.
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Chiayee

13 years ago

Thanks everyone for your valuable input. Much appreciated

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

While the other guy may not have legal grounds, doing reviews of products that you haven't tried, whether negative or positive isn't going over very big with the FTC lately. It's no different than fake testimonials. Also, do you have the disclaimers on your site saying you are affiliated with the products and make money if they purchase?

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PsychoProfits

13 years ago

If there is no scientific evidence to prove that the product works and you've given your "opinion" then they haven't got a case.

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heasy 13 years ago

Originally Posted by rglewis

If there is no scientific evidence to prove that the product works and you've given your "opinion" then they haven't got a case.

Indeed! Don't let him scare you. You did nothing wrong , right?
He will have a very hard time to prove you lied about his product (because you didn't). Taking legal action for this would be a costly manner for him.

Ignore it!
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DeborahDera

13 years ago

Do you have proof that there was no scientific research done in the creation of this product?

Otherwise, you write something as fact that you could not prove. You didn't wonder if their was research. You didn't say you were questioning whether or not it made sense. You said that it is NOT based on scientific research.

You've got a problem.

Unless you have proof otherwise, I'd delete the page and be done with it.

Originally Posted by Chiayee

Dear fellow warriors:

For one popular product of my niche, I wrote a negative review on my site. I basically say that the claims for the product is not based on scientific proof.

Today I received following comments on for the review page:

"Im going to give you 48 hours to pull down this site otherwise i will be taking legal action. This is an example of defamation. I have saved your website to how it appeared on the 14th september and will be passed on to my lawyers."

URL: http://Defamation-LegalAction (WTF?)

How do I know if this is legit?

Any tips will be much appreciated.

Thanks.

CY

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SebastianHudson

13 years ago

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by www.BuyAnEdu.com

LOL guys guys guys how can you post such bull**** without looking where the OP is living.
In germany there are other rules than in the US and a FTC can go **** themself there.

If he would like to sue you he would need to contact a german lawyer to send you a nice letter but i highly doubt he would win as your internet site just shows your opinion.

Just make a small disclaimer that everything on the site is your personal opinion and if somebody doesnt like it that he have to leave your site.

Thats all you got to do and dont worry nothing will happen

Right.

FTC rules don't govern German citizens.

I would state categorically on the page, "In my opinion, the premise behind this product is flawed"...

As consumers, we are allowed to review products and state our opinions of such products...

I would write the review and clearly describe my opinion as such, then I would leave the post on the site...

There is a product that used to be sold online that a lot of people thought was a scam, yet a lot of people continued selling it. Many people said that the premise behind the product could not stand up under scientific scrutiny.

I agreed with that assessment, so when the Myth Busters did a segment on the product, I first got excited, then disappointed.

I still believe the product was a huge lie, but I felt the Myth Busters did not do enough to prove it false.

I criticized both the product and the Myth Busters in my review of the product, and if anyone would have demanded I remove my review, I would have advised them to exit the train between stops.

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cottonking2000

13 years ago

Take it down. It is not your battle. If your body or kid was hurt because of it then you would or could battle. But not your battle. Do not start a war you can not afford unless your willing to loose everything. That is why these guys do it.

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WebPen

13 years ago

IT's just NOT worth it.

Take the thing down and move on.

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thekaver

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Chiayee

Dear fellow warriors:

For one popular product of my niche, I wrote a negative review on my site. I basically say that the claims for the product is not based on scientific proof.

Today I received following comments on for the review page:

"Im going to give you 48 hours to pull down this site otherwise i will be taking legal action. This is an example of defamation. I have saved your website to how it appeared on the 14th september and will be passed on to my lawyers."

URL: http://Defamation-LegalAction (WTF?)

How do I know if this is legit?

Any tips will be much appreciated.

Thanks.

CY

you are allowed to give negitive reviews over products but just be careful how you word them! Otherwise review sites would just be full of good reviews.

If i were you i wouldnt take it down, id just re word it carefully. If you bought the product you are entitled to you opinion. If you feel it not good. then simply say. "in my opinion this is not a good product"

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by thekaver

you are allowed to give negitive reviews over products but just be careful how you word them! Otherwise review sites would just be full of good reviews.

If i were you i wouldnt take it down, id just re word it carefully. If you bought the product you are entitled to you opinion. If you feel it not good. then simply say. "in my opinion this is not a good product"

He didn't buy it. His positive reviews are just as bogus as the negative review is. It's an "affiliate marketing model". Review some products you never bought favorably and review one product you never bought negatively to make it look more credible.

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sam12six

13 years ago

Originally Posted by cottonking2000

Take it down. It is not your battle. If your body or kid was hurt because of it then you would or could battle. But not your battle. Do not start a war you can not afford unless your willing to loose everything. That is why these guys do it.

Originally Posted by Justin Stowe

IT's just NOT worth it.

Take the thing down and move on.

I disagree. If the site selling the product makes bogus claims and the OP's site is about doing real reviews, it's an honest and brave thing to call out quackery. The original post doesn't mention the exact niche of the product, but if it's a site doing reviews to help people, calling BS what it is is both helpful to readers and the truth.

As far as not trying the product or scientifically proving a negative, the reviewing site is not responsible for these things. I do not need to stick magnets in my shoes to prove they won't cure baldness, impotence, and arthritis. Anyone claiming something like this is the one responsible for providing proof.

If it were my site, I'd write a note back stating that when I'm pointed in the direction of university level or better studies that prove the statements made by the seller, I'll gladly retract and state clearly that the product does indeed teach your dog to fluently speak Japanese, cause your grass stop growing at the perfect height for a permanently manicured lawn, and remove that unsightly birthmark on your ass. In the absence of such proof, I'd recommend the seller go do something both scientifically and anatomically impossible...

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guitarjosh

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sam12six

I disagree. If the site selling the product makes bogus claims and the OP's site is about doing real reviews, it's an honest and brave thing to call out quackery. The original post doesn't mention the exact niche of the product, but if it's a site doing reviews to help people, calling BS what it is is both helpful to readers and the truth.

As far as not trying the product or scientifically proving a negative, the reviewing site is not responsible for these things. I do not need to stick magnets in my shoes to prove they won't cure baldness, impotence, and arthritis. Anyone claiming something like this is the one responsible for providing proof.

If it were my site, I'd write a note back stating that when I'm pointed in the direction of university level or better studies that prove the statements made by the seller, I'll gladly retract and state clearly that the product does indeed teach your dog to fluently speak Japanese, cause your grass stop growing at the perfect height for a permanently manicured lawn, and remove that unsightly birthmark on your ass. In the absence of such proof, I'd recommend the seller go do something both scientifically and anatomically impossible...

I actually agree. It's a review site after all.

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thekaver

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

He didn't buy it. His positive reviews are just as bogus as the negative review is. It's an "affiliate marketing model". Review some products you never bought favorably and review one product you never bought negatively to make it look more credible.

what does this guy expect then!

this has been brought up here on the forums many times before with guys giving poor reviews on wso they never bought!

Its these type of guys who are ruining it for the people producing good quality wso's

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by thekaver

what does this guy expect then!

this has been brought up here on the forums many times before with guys giving poor reviews on wso they never bought!

Its these type of guys who are ruining it for the people producing good quality wso's

Well, this isn't about WSOs. It's about an affiliate marketing model that is the same as "Good Cop, Bad Cop". You do 3 or 4 great reviews and 1 bad review to make it look more real.

Only this time and I imagine in some other instances, the Bad Cop routine bit him in the rear end.

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kento57

13 years ago

I'd just ignore. Call the bluff. There is nothing to worry about based on what you've given.

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Steven Wagenheim

13 years ago

Brian is a lawyer. Brian knows what the f**k he is talking about.

Take the review down IMMEDIATELY.

For one thing, if you DIDN'T buy the product, making statements about the
validity of the product is a sure ticket to courtroom hell.

I don't care where the OP lives. By leaving that review up, he is leaving himself
open to more nightmares than any one person should have to go through.

It's easy to talk tough on a forum. But when it's YOUR head in the noose, not
so easy.

If the OP wants to do a review, he should buy the product, try it and THEN
base his review on his opinion and not state any facts that he can't prove.

Not based on scientific fact? How the f**k does he know?

Dangerous territory he's walking through here.

But hey, what do I know? I'm just a dumb jerk from New Jersey.

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sam12six

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Brian is a lawyer. Brian knows what the f**k he is talking about.

Take the review down IMMEDIATELY.

For one thing, if you DIDN'T buy the product, making statements about the
validity of the product is a sure ticket to courtroom hell.

I don't care where the OP lives. By leaving that review up, he is leaving himself
open to more nightmares than any one person should have to go through.

It's easy to talk tough on a forum. But when it's YOUR head in the noose, not
so easy.

I get what you're saying, but I don't agree in this instance. There's a difference between disputing whether something might work - like saying facebook ads will make $X money - and disputing the very premise of the product - like pointing out that ads for the niche in question are not allowed on facebook.

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

If the OP wants to do a review, he should buy the product, try it and THEN
base his review on his opinion and not state any facts that he can't prove.

He's not the one stating unproven facts. The seller is, he just pointed it out.

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Not based on scientific fact? How the f**k does he know?

Dangerous territory he's walking through here.

But hey, what do I know? I'm just a dumb jerk from New Jersey.

What the f**k difference does it make how he knows?

If I market pills and claim they'll allow you to drink discarded motor oil and turn your urine into a fertilizer that will make seedling fruit trees grow into mature trees and start bearing fruit overnight, what scientific credentials are sufficient for you to point out that I'm full of it?

I don't disagree that simply having the negative review up could be an opening for a lawsuit. In the US, just existing is opening for a lawsuit. The easy path is definitely to step out of the way of someone who aggressively threatens to protect his snake oil. It's not necessarily the right path.

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SarahMcHarry 13 years ago

I was in this situation a couple of years back. I was promoting a range of products from a company where the two main directors were sent to prison for tax fraud. I then switched to promoting a competitor's products and posted on my website my reason for my change of heart, ie. that product X's directors had just been convicted of tax fraud.

I got an email from some lawyers saying that they would sue me for defamation and that I had 7 days to remove my website. I received some (free) advice from a lawyer on a friendly forum to the effect that, if the accusation was demonstrably true, then it wasn't defamation. It's no crime to report facts (well, not yet )

My web post truly stated only demonstrable facts and I sent the lawyers all the Google News clips covering the court case. I never heard from the lawyers again.

This is my experience and I am not a lawyer, so don't regard this post as advice. But I hope it helps.

Good luck!

Sarah
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Steven Wagenheim

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sam12six

I get what you're saying, but I don't agree in this instance. There's a difference between disputing whether something might work - like saying facebook ads will make money - and disputing the very premise of the product - like pointing out that ads for the niche in question are not allowed on facebook.

What the f**k difference does it make how he knows?

If I market pills and claim they'll allow you to drink discarded motor oil and turn your urine into a fertilizer that will make seedling fruit trees grow into mature trees and start bearing fruit overnight, what scientific credentials are sufficient for you to point out that I'm full of it?

I don't disagree that simply having the negative review up could be an opening for a lawsuit. In the US, just existing is opening for a lawsuit. The easy path is definitely to step out of the way of someone who aggressively threatens to protect his snake oil. It's not necessarily the right path.

You're not getting it.

HE DID NOT BUY THE F*****G PRODUCT THEREFOR HE HAS NO RIGHT TO
MAKE ANY CLAIMS ON WHAT THE PRODUCT CAN AND CAN'T DO.

A first year law student knows that much.

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sam12six

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

You're not getting it.

HE DID NOT BUY THE F*****G PRODUCT THEREFOR HE HAS NO RIGHT TO
MAKE ANY CLAIMS ON WHAT THE PRODUCT CAN AND CAN'T DO.

A first year law student knows that much.

Again, if a product seller makes claims that run counter to accepted scientific fact, you don't need to buy it to claim it doesn't work. If it did work, the science would change and it wouldn't run counter to current scientific fact.

I know a lot of what we deal with are opinions on both sides, but in this case, the seller made blatantly false factual claims (according to the OP). I don't need to buy a magnetic hat to be able to tell my readers that it won't make them grow 4 inches taller in the next week - unless you want to count a 4 inch tall hat. I just need to explain the scientific reason the claim doesn't hold water - which the OP seems to have done.

I don't need to provide someone with profit to "buy" the right to correct lies they tell, sorry.

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AlexPost 13 years ago

You can't defame a product. Most internet marketers wouldn't want to sue someone, because then they'd be subject to discovery.
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- AlexPost 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by AlexPost
  
  You can't defame a product. Most internet marketers wouldn't want to sue someone, because then they'd be subject to discovery.
  
  Just read the wikipedia article for Defamation and I stand corrected. I shouldn't be playing Matlock online.
  
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HeySal

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sam12six

but in this case, the seller made blatantly false factual claims (according to the OP).

I don't need to provide someone with profit to "buy" the right to correct lies they tell, sorry.

Now I'm not a lawyer - nor have I played one on TV - but I can be a serious wench when I want to be - and here's my take on it all:

Can the OP prove that the advertising is lying? Seems to me if the guy is lying or even making claims that are exaggerated, if the OP just dropped the FTC a line about possible false advertising and exaggerated claims and the link to the site - the guy would be busy proving "average results" at the very least and maybe defending against fraud charges if actually using bloated or false claims to sell a piece of crap -- and probably would be way too busy to pay attention to a slam by the OP if the FTC has caught them red-handed. And the FTC CAN go after someone in another country if they are lying about products they sell to Americans.

The product owner has already stated they have a screenshot of the slam - so right or wrong, you are at risk. So pulling a defensive act that might put him out of commission to sue anyone for anything isn't a bad move.

And after that -- be more careful about your reviews and how you word them. For cripes sakes - you aren't in a high school gossip group, you are running a business.

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Alan Petersen 13 years ago

If the site is making you decent money then hire an attorney, if not, take it down and move on. Like Brian wrote, it's not worth risking your business in a game of chicken.
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sam12six

13 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Now I'm not a lawyer - nor have I played one on TV - but I can be a serious wench when I want to be - and here's my take on it all:

Can the OP prove that the advertising is lying? Seems to me if the guy is lying or even making claims that are exaggerated, if the OP just dropped the FTC a line about possible false advertising and exaggerated claims and the link to the site - the guy would be busy proving "average results" at the very least and maybe defending against fraud charges if actually using bloated or false claims to sell a piece of crap -- and probably would be way too busy to pay attention to a slam by the OP if the FTC has caught them red-handed. And the FTC CAN go after someone in another country if they are lying about products they sell to Americans.

I'm making assumptions here (and we all know how little those are worth). From the little detail the OP gave, I'm assuming the product in question is in the health/self improvement field. Marketers in that field are pretty expert at not stating that the product "does this" or "fixes that" because actually stating it would bring the FTC hammer (or some other agency's hammer) down on them. They imply instead of state. They use anecdote instead of scientific fact to demonstrate the value of their product.

If I'm right, calling out their quackery is not slander. Pointing out the science that indicates that the product simply can't do what they claim is not lying.

Originally Posted by HeySal

The product owner has already stated they have a screenshot of the slam - so right or wrong, you are at risk. So pulling a defensive act that might put him out of commission to sue anyone for anything isn't a bad move. And after that -- be more careful about your reviews and how you word them.

Here you're making an assumption - that the review in question was a slam and not a statement of accepted science that simply disagrees with the marketing materials of the given product. Sure, if he stated that the magnet hat will make your head explode, that's a slam (and slander). If he stated that there's no indication from any reviewed and accredited scientific authority that the principle the product is based on actually does what the seller implies, that's just telling the truth.

Originally Posted by HeySal

For cripes sakes - you aren't in a high school gossip group, you are running a business.

Exactly!!

If you believe you're in business to actually help people AND make money instead of just to make money, telling the truth is a good thing. When someone markets a product by using gossipy innuendo to make it sound like it can do something impossible, a site that performs responsible reviews points this out.

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HeySal

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sam12six

I'm making assumptions here (and we all know how little those are worth). From the little detail the OP gave, I'm assuming the product in question is in the health/self improvement field. Marketers in that field are pretty expert at not stating that the product "does this" or "fixes that" because actually stating it would bring the FTC hammer (or some other agency's hammer) down on them. They imply instead of state. They use anecdote instead of scientific fact to demonstrate the value of their product.

If I'm right, calling out their quackery is not slander. Pointing out the science that indicates that the product simply can't do what they claim is not lying.

Here you're making an assumption - that the review in question was a slam and not a statement of accepted science that simply disagrees with the marketing materials of the given product. Sure, if he stated that the magnet hat will make your head explode, that's a slam (and slander). If he stated that there's no indication from any reviewed and accredited scientific authority that the principle the product is based on actually does what the seller implies, that's just telling the truth.

Exactly!!

If you believe you're in business to actually help people AND make money instead of just to make money, telling the truth is a good thing. When someone markets a product by using gossipy innuendo to make it sound like it can do something impossible, a site that performs responsible reviews points this out.

I was just going by the OP's statement that the advertising was extremely hyped and the product could not work, in which case, the FTC would land on it like an eagle on a mouse. There are a few niches that get more attention than others from the "authorities", and this is one of them.

At this point, if you want to be very technical, we have no clue if the OP was speaking from fact, or just slamming for some reason (perhaps competing products) -- so take my stance with a grain of salt. Just speaking from what we were being told about the situation. I'm sure the OP can figure out which of my reactions relate to the real situation and which don't. Of course, I would expect someone to do a lot of due diligence before posting a statement against a product - and before acting on a threat or before calling in reinforcements as well. Only the OP knows the full truth of what actually has gone on.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Chiayee

The product basically promises the moon, something similar to "Slim down your tummy with my stupid gadget! No exercsie, no pills, no diet required!"

So on my page I explained why this doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

You're not getting it.

HE DID NOT BUY THE F*****G PRODUCT THEREFOR HE HAS NO RIGHT TO
MAKE ANY CLAIMS ON WHAT THE PRODUCT CAN AND CAN'T DO.

A first year law student knows that much.

Steven: I hate disagreeing with you, BUT... :p

If what the OP put in quotes is what is claimed on the sales page, then the product does not make any sense to me either!!

Everyone knows that "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is..."

So if someone tells me something that sounds too good to be true, and I call them on it, am I still in the wrong??

I think you and I both do that on this forum all the time...

Does our actions in this forum meet the legal definition of "Defamation"??

I doubt it... But if it does, I suspect you and I could be in a world of hurt if someone wanted to threaten to sue us...

My post count could potentially be reduced by 80%... How about yours?

p.s. I am not a lawyer either.

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Patrick Pretty

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sam12six

If I market pills and claim they'll allow you to drink discarded motor oil and turn your urine into a fertilizer that will make seedling fruit trees grow into mature trees and start bearing fruit overnight, what scientific credentials are sufficient for you to point out that I'm full of it?

Splorf! That's Internet Marketing the Phil Piccolo way. He pushes a product that purportedly prevents leg amputations and helps tomatoes grow to twice their normal size and dairy cows produce more milk.

The interesting thing is that, when people criticize Piccolo, he threatens to sue them. When that doesn't work, he plants the seed that he knows leg-breakers.

Originally Posted by sam12six

I don't disagree that simply having the negative review up could be an opening for a lawsuit. In the US, just existing is opening for a lawsuit. The easy path is definitely to step out of the way of someone who aggressively threatens to protect his snake oil. It's not necessarily the right path.

Totally agree -- especially the "not necessarily the right path" part. Too many Phil Piccolos in IM.

Patrick

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Ben Gordon

13 years ago

No legal advice here as I am NOT a lawyer (the best thing to do is get a lawyer), I'm just simply stating my opinion.

Here's what I would do.

If you didn't purchase the product yet then TAKE IT DOWN IMMEDIATELY. You cannot make accusations on a product that you didn't purchase yet.

Though on the other hand if you did purchase the product and didn't like it and put up an honest review about YOUR OPINION on the product then you can tell him to **** himself. Tell him that defamation has nothing to do with stating your own, personal, honest opinion about his product. Explain that there are other laws in the world that protect free speech.

No legal advice here as mentioned above, but this is a rough idea of what I would do.

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james8888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ben Gordon

No legal advice here as I am NOT a lawyer (the best thing to do is get a lawyer), I'm just simply stating my opinion.

Here's what I would do.

If you didn't purchase the product yet then TAKE IT DOWN IMMEDIATELY. You cannot make accusations on a product that you didn't purchase yet.

I really don't understand why there is so much emphasis being placed on whether or not the reviewer tried the product. There seem to be many categorical statements on this thread that you cannot write a review about a product you haven't tried.

Logic tells me that whether you can or can't write a review about a product you haven't tried all depends on the style of the review. If you state, in no uncertain terms, that your review is not based on your own personal experience of the product, but from information received from medical practioners or real users, then by all means go ahead and post a review from that perspective (even though you haven't tried the product yourself), but make it clear that you have not tried the product yourself.

On the other hand, if you haven't tried the product yourself, then for goodness' sake don't write a review about what you claim to be your experience with the product, because that SCREAMS lawsuit.

I am a South African attorney, as it so happens. But I don't intend this to be legal advice. For one thing defamation/slander is not my practice. That being said, it resonates with me that you have nothing to worry about should you temper your review to fit reality. If you haven't tried the product, say so, and that your negative claims are just your opinion - don't categorically state that there is no scientific research to back the product unless you can back that with proof. If you have tried the product, by all means cry and moan about the lack of results you experienced, but again, emphasize that this is merely your opinion.

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WholesalerJoe

13 years ago

Didnt buy the product no right to post negative crap... Keyword spamming come to mind

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ak1lz

13 years ago

It was slander(defamation) , this is common mistake made by people not familiar with it.

slander is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual.

So communication via your website. And you implied that the product wasn't based on scientific proof... (implied to be factual)

"I basically say that the claims for the product is not based on scientific proof."

you f****ed up, remove the post.. OR

In the title and where you explain "the product is not based on scientific proof"

You need to say "the product is not based on scientific proof in my opinion"

I would remove the post and remember how to post a negative review of a product based on your OPINION.

Now, I know a bunch of people are wanting to put their 2 cents in on this and tell you its OK & that's not slander because of this or that..

Based on the information you gave us.. that is indeed Slander.. I would seek professional help regardless.

My corporation has won several Slander cases.. Specifically made by our competitors. they are pretty easy to win so good luck.

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Rick Britton

13 years ago

It seems to me that the review of the product was based on what the reviewer assumed to be "common knowledge" rather than specific knowledge ie we all "know" that we cannot achieve flat tummies with zero effort based on thousands of years of human existence. Therefore, if the review is put in the "oh come on we all know you cant do that based on our experience" then I dont see a problem. We are allowed to express opinion aren't we?

How would the person threatening legal acion feel if his product were to be investigated for fraudulent claims?

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Chiayee

13 years ago

Hi all:

Thanks for the input. I really appreciate your opinions.

Maybe I should make it clear. It's true that I didn't buy or test the product. I don't have to, because it appears to be borderline scam to me.

My review article is more of like the analysis of the sales page, instead of the product itself. I point out why the claims made are exaggerated and misleading.

Let me give you an example: in order to lose weight, you need to eat proper diet and exercise regularly. You can't rely on some magic cream or gadget to shed off the pounds.

See the article of doctor here for more details:
The Skinny on Diet Scams

In fact, you can tons of reliable, medical studies on this topic.

A webmaster come across an ad of diet cream that promise to "lose 30 pounds in 30 days!" He wrote an article to warn consumers about the false science behind this product. Then, the product owner issue warning against the webmaster.

This example explains my situation pretty well. Though I am not going to reveal the URL of the product and the niche.

I've taken down the review page in question. However, it makes me wonder: is this really defamation/slander? Hm....

Thanks again everyone

CY

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thekaver

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Chiayee

Hi all:

Thanks for the input. I really appreciate your opinions.

Maybe I should make it clear. It's true that I didn't buy or test the product. I don't have to, because it appears to be borderline scam to me.

CY

hi,

maybe you should purchase it then you will have the right to your opinion on there wso

thanks TheKaver

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Palusko 13 years ago

I'm quite sure he does have a right to his opinion.
Of course, having an opinion and expressing it are two different things. But you still can express it, no matter what it is based on. In fact, he can express it even if it is completely baseless. The main thing is to make sure he clearly states it is his OPINION.

Originally Posted by thekaver

hi,

maybe you should purchase it then you will have the right to your opinion on there wso

thanks TheKaver
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GarrieWilson

13 years ago

Put it back up and replace the review with his legal threat. You could precede it with an explanation and follow it up with the question...

Can you really trust XY Diet when they resort to measures like this to keep peoples opinions silent?

It might not be legal but the marketer in me would do it. ;P

Garrie

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IMAnthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Chiayee

Dear fellow warriors:

For one popular product of my niche, I wrote a negative review on my site. I basically say that the claims for the product is not based on scientific proof.

Today I received following comments on for the review page:

"Im going to give you 48 hours to pull down this site otherwise i will be taking legal action. This is an example of defamation. I have saved your website to how it appeared on the 14th september and will be passed on to my lawyers."

URL: http://Defamation-LegalAction (WTF?)

How do I know if this is legit?

Any tips will be much appreciated.

Thanks.

CY

One thing is offering a high quality info-product for a niche that are willing to pay for it, and another very different is scam them only because they will pay for any promise.

You have done well, saying that particular product is a scam if it is.
But if not....I mean did you taste it? some of your relatives did? some friend?
Those are the questions the lawyers will ask to you, and if you can not stand, they will anihiliate you. Although the product be a scam, lawyers are more than ready to "prove" that is the century's cure.

I would like to advice that if you have strong evidence or signed testimonials,
you could talk with a lawyer too. And you can go one step forward, because he is intimidating you, ant that's illegal.

I would not take care of that mail, if I was you, but I am not.
I only can say to you that talk with a lawyer, there are many who want get in the internet issues game, and make the best choice.

Success.

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DanielDeus

13 years ago

If they're wording it cleverly to avoid legal issues, play them at their own game (if you fancy baiting the lion). You could re-word your own review...

"According to our own analysis, there is no evidence of any scientific proof to backup the claims. We are still waiting to hear back from the product supplier with any such scientific proof..."

Or

"Despite our requests, the product supplier refused to supply any scientific evidence or proof to support their claims..."

(assuming you have genuinely requested proof from them)

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chrismarx2011

13 years ago

There are different facets of the law and different lawyers have specialization in each one of them. Your choice of your attorney will depend on the type of your legal situation.

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Threatening to take legal action?

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