Sexual Harassment from Clients

by Lauryn
147 replies
Bringing this topic up kinda makes me a little

Anyway, I've been doing offline consulting and providing other services for a while and recently began to use social media for networking. Potential clients have come to me with an interest in learning more about the services provided, and just when they've been talking enough business, they begin to switch gears and blend in subtle flirtations. I know not to take those serious and they don't pan out anyway.

However, I was going back and forth with one for a few weeks. All serious business. I'm waiting for the contract, and I like his FB fan page for the business (so I can analyze it). He sends a friend request, which I accept, only to send a highly inappropriate message, and then halts all contact when I'm non-responsive on FB but press on as if nothing happened in the emails.

I'm sure other women have had to deal with this. And I'm sure a few men will say they've had to as well.

What gives? What to do? How do you handle this and separate the serious from the time-wasting?
#clients #harassment #sexual
  • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
    Play along, get the job done, get the money, get a glowing testimonial.....then say you're an 8ft male cage fighter but you use the picture you do because of all the scars of battle and you're worried people will be put off doing business with you. Then thank him for his kind testimonial and promise to stay friends on FB.
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  • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
    Originally Posted by jade69 View Post

    Give him what he wants!
    Speechless at the stupidity.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jerry Reily
      Originally Posted by Danielle Clarke View Post

      Your responses are offensive.
      My wife think so too. Even his username corresponds the way he talk.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by jade69 View Post

      Sex is an natural part of human relationships. What seems stupid to you?
      Sex is also a natural part of animal relationships and sex with ignoramuses falls into that category.
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    • Profile picture of the author Devid Farah
      Originally Posted by DianaHeuser View Post


      Speechless at the stupidity.
      "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former".

      - Albert Einstein
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  • Profile picture of the author billythekid
    its a tough one. obviously this kind of thing is not on, and you did the right thing to him ditch him as a client. Some clients take the view point that because they're paying you money and you're reliant on their business that they can try their luck as it were. But it's totally unprofessional and all you can do is move on, as theres plenty of clients that still no professional boundaries and keep within them. All the best.
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    • Profile picture of the author codenaam
      Originally Posted by Danielle Clarke View Post

      There's a lot I could say on this subject.

      But the nutshell version is: I have a zero-tolerance policy. I am a professional, and expect and demand to be treated professionally.

      I wouldn't tolerate inappropriate behavior for any amount of money.
      And that's the only right answer! Amen!
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  • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
    Originally Posted by Lauryn View Post

    Bringing this topic up kinda makes me a little

    Anyway, I've been doing offline consulting and providing other services for a while and recently began to use social media for networking. Potential clients have come to me with an interest in learning more about the services provided, and just when they've been talking enough business, they begin to switch gears and blend in subtle flirtations. I know not to take those serious and they don't pan out anyway.

    However, I was going back and forth with one for a few weeks. All serious business. I'm waiting for the contract, and I like his FB fan page for the business (so I can analyze it). He sends a friend request, which I accept, only to send a highly inappropriate message, and then halts all contact when I'm non-responsive on FB but press on as if nothing happened in the emails.

    I'm sure other women have had to deal with this. And I'm sure a few men will say they've had to as well.

    What gives? What to do? How do you handle this and separate the serious from the time-wasting?
    Interesting post.

    I know what you mean - sometimes it is REALLY hard dealing with all the female attention I get! :p

    Seriously though, I think you just need to VERY politely let the guy know that it is business.

    Keep on re-addressing the main business points in your email communication.

    Or if it still continues just say something like:

    "P.S Think you are great and some of these messages make me laugh but can we keep things business minded please? "

    The smiley face will let him know that you are serious without sounding too harsh.

    If it STILL continues I would write an email and say this is the package we can do for you as discussed - please let us know if that is of interest and we can start work - if not I wish you all the best.

    Hope this helps?

    Chris Jones
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  • Profile picture of the author Jerry Reily
    How do you handle this and separate the serious from the time-wasting?
    You can pretend to be married or engaged, a religious person active in Church, you might want to wear an eye glass or a crucifix. The reason is this, the guy probably thinks you are easy. He could have think you have flirted with him and that you liked him in some way. You might portray to be a single mother and have someone call you about your child and how caring you are and make the guy that you wouldn't do anything to screw your life and your family. With this set, he will see it as a waste of time on his part and he would not want to be involve in your mushy life of responsibility.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lauryn
    Thank you to those who responded with credible advice.

    I do use my real photo on Facebook, and in my gravatar. That's just me, but I agree that employing a zero-tolerance policy is what's necessary. My friend advised me to place a sexual-harassment clause in my contract that says if I'm sexually-harassed in an unwelcome manner, the client forfeits any fees paid for services and terminates the contract immediately.

    I'm not sure how legal this is.

    And yes, "sex" is a part of human nature, but it DAMN sure isn't a part of my consulting services. And this is coming from someone with a pen name in sex/romance material.
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    I Go Hard = "Slanguage" for putting forth a lot of effort.

    Don't be an arse and try to flip something you clearly have no knowledge of against me.

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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      Originally Posted by Lauryn View Post

      Thank you to those who responded with credible advice.

      I do use my real photo on Facebook, and in my gravatar. That's just me, but I agree that employing a zero-tolerance policy is what's necessary. My friend advised me to place a sexual-harassment clause in my contract that says if I'm sexually-harassed in an unwelcome manner, the client forfeits any fees paid for services and terminates the contract immediately.

      I'm not sure how legal this is.

      And yes, "sex" is a part of human nature, but it DAMN sure isn't a part of my consulting services. And this is coming from someone with a pen name in sex/romance material.
      Maybe you should just replace your photo's with graphics?

      I'm not thinking something as provocative as "I go hard" mind you!
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by webcore View Post

        Maybe you should just replace your photo's with graphics?

        I'm not thinking something as provocative as "I go hard" mind you!
        But if you were into hip hop "I Go Hard" would be completely normal, wouldn't it?

        however, if I had an avatar of my face with "I Go Hard" next to it, then I believe that would raise an eyebrow or two.
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        • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          But if you were into hip hop "I Go Hard" would be completely normal, wouldn't it?

          however, if I had an avatar of my face with "I Go Hard" next to it, then I believe that would raise an eyebrow or two.
          LOL Comedy Gold!

          Maybe it is because we are from the U.K right?

          I actually do listen to Hip Hop and sometimes do actually go the "aforementioned" but only when Rihanna comes on...

          Wait...damm this is what this thread is trying to stop!

          I'm confused...

          Chris
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          But if you were into hip hop "I Go Hard" would be completely normal, wouldn't it?
          Regardless, the euphemism would remain.
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      • Profile picture of the author bretski
        "My friend advised me to place a sexual-harassment clause in my contract that says if I'm sexually-harassed in an unwelcome manner, the client forfeits any fees paid for services and terminates the contract immediately."

        LOL! I know that I would throw the contract back at you, show you the door and have a few unkind comments about your parental heritage. This has no place in a business contract, in my eyes, and would make me think that I was being set up to be taken for a ride.

        You handled the situation perfectly in my eyes. I have personally taken a lot more garbage from clients and still wound up firing them. It doesn't really matter if we're talking about clients who harass you sexually, verbally, are abusive, don't pay their bill, are drunks, who eat up too much of your time or just annoy the crap out of you... you deal with them all the same way.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sardent
      Originally Posted by Lauryn View Post

      I My friend advised me to place a sexual-harassment clause in my contract that says if I'm sexually-harassed in an unwelcome manner, the client forfeits any fees paid for services and terminates the contract immediately.

      I'm not sure how legal this is.
      The problem is that it's very subjective.
      Too subjective.

      What exactly constitutes sexual harassment in a welcome manner?

      As a man in today's salem-witch-trial society, if I saw such a clause in any contract I'd say good bye right then and there.
      It speaks of issues, rightfully necessary or not, and simply isn't worth the risk.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarkusD
    Don't feed the trolls people, they enjoy it.
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    • Profile picture of the author art72
      Originally Posted by MarkusD View Post

      Don't feed the trolls people, they enjoy it.
      I may be wrong here, but looking at the post title and signatures, I'd say this "newbie" has quite and eye.

      If I am wrong... tell him your services are "For Sale" -Not You! :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
    Originally Posted by Danielle Clarke View Post

    All irrelevant.

    The OP, Lauryn, is clearly a professional woman. If she is perceived as attractive, that does not mean there is an open and unsolicited invitation to treat her as anything other than a 100% professional businesswoman.

    If an attractive woman chooses to market herself in any way that is deliberately provocative, then that is their prerogative and they will understand the consequences of potentially inappropriate responses.
    This ^

    I used to work in a sales office and the top sales people or at least a lot of them were Women and they DID use to flirt with clients and I say good luck to them - however when it becomes more serious than this i.e Unwanted attention this is not good.

    I am sure if you set the guy straight all should be fine but as Danielle says JUST because you are a women doesn't give right for ANYONE to give you unwanted attention.

    Just my view anyway.

    P.S You look great in your profile pic Danielle! :p *JOKE*

    All the best,

    Chris Jones
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  • Profile picture of the author FaBiz
    Lauryn,

    unfortunately i believe that so many times this happens and "funny" thing is that if a business woman acts in a friendly way with her customers, some of them would think "Wow, she might be an easy one!!"

    The reaction to harassment of this kind are just different as we all are different.

    Though i would try replying with a smile on your face but being straight to him. And if he'll be pushing too hard just stop smiles and get the proper action.

    And said this, i'd prefer to lose a customer but to have around "normal" people to deal with.

    FaBiz
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  • Profile picture of the author Raja Kamil
    I feel very sorry about this.
    I've a sister who does offline marketing and getting the same thing happen to you.
    I advised her with few tips and they are work, guys never insult her anymore (this sexual harrasment is kind of insulting)

    I'm not sure you, but I will like to share it here.

    1. Proper dress. Mind my language, but I'm sincere about this.
    Never wear tight dress, such as lower skirts, tight shirt ect.

    2. Wear dark color cloth. I'm not sure about this, but bright color attracting the other gender. I'm sure I've read it somewhere, but can't find the source at the moment.

    3. Wear minimum make up. Make up is important. I know, I've two sisters, and they took almost an hour just for make up .
    I advised my sister, to wear what you need to look fresh only.

    this tips after regarding my sister Facebook.

    1. Set privacy to few people only for photos.
    2. Use profesional picture on profile pictures, proper dress I mean.


    The last tips;
    1. Be firm, that, business is business
    Some how, irresponsible man, think they can get whatever they want with money.
    They think women is cheap. I don't like this kind of thinking.
    I adviced my sister to say this personally to him, with proper and appropriate word to her client, so he will understand.

    2. If possible, bring partner when meet the client. Never being alone.


    This is what I adviced my sister, and hopefully it will result the same.
    Now, instead of men looking her as cheap arrogant woman, she look like a women with professional attitude and have principals.


    Regards;
    Raja Kamil
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  • Profile picture of the author Lauryn
    Thanks everyone!
    And Raja, yes those are very good tips. Thank you!
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    I Go Hard = "Slanguage" for putting forth a lot of effort.

    Don't be an arse and try to flip something you clearly have no knowledge of against me.

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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    I am also getting constantly "harassed" by extremely hot women online.

    But, ok let's keep this serious. This is the internet, this is facebook, zillions of immature people online. Just ignore it.
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    • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      I am also getting constantly "harassed" by extremely hot women online.

      But, ok let's keep this serious. This is the internet, this is facebook, zillions of immature people online. Just ignore it.
      Man you so lucky send them to me

      okay, seriously. As far as facebook, I personally will advice you to keep two profile : Public / Private

      The private for friends and family while the public for work.

      Unfortunately, facebook became important enough that people check your profile with or without a good reason.

      So, for the public profile keep minimum access. People are not allow to post you your wall , ... etc

      While the private can have other type of access so your friends and family don't get bothered contacting you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        You've been leading me on all this time?

        I can't believe this Jill.
        No. What you and I have is real baby.

        You do need to learn to row a bit faster though or I may be somewhere on the west coast by the time you get here. :p
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    Sex is fun. Business is fun. Together...not such a good idea. And if its a client...ugh...
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  • Profile picture of the author Rick Britton
    I'm a massage therapist by profession

    if I get any and I mean any sexual innuendo at all I inform my clients that it is inappropriate and that any further suggestion will cause the treatment to be terminated

    good luck to you anyway, not much I can say to help but I really sympathise
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    Hmm,

    Your avatar says, "I GO HARD". You have relationship type links in your signature. Your post is about a man who fits the "cheating type" profile.

    This thread is pure......

    SIGNATURE TROLL!

    I don't believe a word of it.
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    • Profile picture of the author dbarnum
      Hi,

      This does come up, without a doubt. Some ways that I've dealt with it are:

      - At IM or other business events, avoid situations that could turn weird when possible, for instance going out late with the "guys" to hit the bar scene. Instead, hang out there earlier for awhile, and have someone like Willie Crawford at your table (Willie often brings his wife, too, and regardless, he's always a gentleman as most Warrior guys are at these thing

      - Hanging out with women in your group and / or married gents also helps, and letting any single guys who attempt flirting know right off in a fun yet firm way that you are not picking up on it and running with it.

      For example:

      Remember Columbo, Peter Falk was Lieutenant Columbo, a homicide detective with the Los Angeles Police on a TV series? He knew who the killer was in the first few minutes, most often, yet "played stupid" asking questions, giving vague replies and letting the killer think he was ahead of the game, etc. Use Columbo tactics. This can make it more of an adventure.



      - As a volunteer at a local adult male prison (teaching writing workshops there and helping in the Chaplain's area), when I run into this I use a number of tactics, depending upon the personality type. For those who appear like Don Juan's, I just smile and say, OK, let's NOT go there... or I might say, If I did what you're asking, my beauty might overwhelm you and the whole system here, and we'd both be locked up for years. While that MAY be worth it, I'd miss my soaps on TV, so hafta turn you down.


      In short, flirting can be serious, but usually guys do this lightly and don't mind a brush off in jest, that doesn't hurt their egos. For those who need something more serious, be safe and avoid unsafe situations, seeking help as needed like from support at Facebook or from an event host, etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author dbarnum
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      Hmm,

      Your avatar says, "I GO HARD". You have relationship type links in your signature. Your post is about a man who fits the "cheating type" profile.

      This thread is pure......

      SIGNATURE TROLL!

      I don't believe a word of it.

      Aaghh! Just noticed that, now that you posted -- wow - - got me

      And I took time to really write out help, bummer :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Russ,

      You may be right, you may not. In either case, it's a problem for a lot of people. The advice may be helpful for those who are confronted with it and aren't comfortable bringing it up in a discussion forum with strangers.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        Paul,

        Your right that it may help others who don't feel comfortable bringing it up for discussion. But I submit to you that one does not need to like a fan page to "anaylze" it in most cases, as the OP mentioned.

        Also this thread isn't about making money so its off topic and should be in another section of the forum shouldn't it?

        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Russ,

        You may be right, you may not. In either case, it's a problem for a lot of people. The advice may be helpful for those who are confronted with it and aren't comfortable bringing it up in a discussion forum with strangers.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Russ,
          Also this thread isn't about making money so its off topic and should be in another section of the forum shouldn't it?
          Dealing with clients is part of business. This kind of client is a problem that costs money, along with all the personal issues that come with the inappropriate attention. On the plus side, a guy who stops contact when he gets a "no" is unlikely to be a stalker, which is a Very Good Thing.
          I submit to you that one does not need to like a fan page to "anaylze" it in most cases, as the OP mentioned.
          True. It may just be a habit, or a way of bookmarking the page. It may also be one of those pages you have to "Like" to see completely. We don't know.

          All that said, I think it would be helpful for people to actually look at Lauryn's Facebook page before guessing too much about things. There's a comment from her on it at the moment that could easily give some people the wrong idea.


          Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael D Forbes
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      Hmm,

      Your avatar says, "I GO HARD". You have relationship type links in your signature. Your post is about a man who fits the "cheating type" profile.

      This thread is pure......

      SIGNATURE TROLL!

      I don't believe a word of it.
      Eh... you posted whilst I was composing my little book ^^^

      Haz I been had? Sure looks like a possibility.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Just deleted my carefully thought out reply. If he OP is serious, then it's time to stop the mixed messages.

        The subtitle under the forum name - the signature links - and some of the comments in the OP, just don't mesh.

        If you are exchanging emails with the customer for weeks - and then he sends and inappropriate message....you are sending inappropriate signals.

        kay
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        • Profile picture of the author bretski
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          If you are exchanging emails with the customer for weeks - and then he sends and inappropriate message....you are sending inappropriate signals.

          kay
          Meh... being a guy and knowing a lot of guys, this isn't necessarily true. There are guys that are so lonely and hard up (no pun intended) that any sort of attention could be misconstrued as a "signal" even when one wasn't sent.
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          • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
            Banned
            Originally Posted by bretski View Post

            Meh... being a guy and knowing a lot of guys, this isn't necessarily true. There are guys that are so lonely and hard up (no pun intended) that any sort of attention could be misconstrued as a "signal" even when one wasn't sent.
            And knowing lot's of women, there are plenty out there who scream sexual harassment when there was none.


            "I Go Hard" is simply a term from hip-hop culture.
            Which is ironic, considering the hip hop industry is well known for its over-the-top, demeaning attitude towards women,
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            • Profile picture of the author bretski
              Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

              And knowing lot's of women, there are plenty out there who scream sexual harassment when there was none.
              Yep... you can't even tell a woman that she looks beautiful without it being taken as "sexual harassment". Screwed up world we live in.
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              • Profile picture of the author bretski
                Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

                How many men do you call beautiful?
                Just the REALLY stupid ones... No... that's a lie. I call them "pretty" as in "you're so pretty"

                Honestly though? Yes, I have told guys that they are handsome or "Man! You look handsome in that jacket"

                I will tell you that most of my friend are women though and most of them work in sales. Every one of them gets hit on at one time or another. The only ones that they complain about are the ones that step over that line or are obnoxious about it. Flirting, inuendo and dirty jokes are common and all of them know how to dispatch a creep while still keeping a smile on their face.
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                • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
                  Originally Posted by webcore View Post

                  Maybe you should just replace your photo's with graphics?
                  Originally Posted by PatrickP View Post

                  I would change your fb pic. Not fair but it would cut down on this a lot I would think.
                  I'm pretty sure there were more people who suggested changing her pic, too. I can't believe that people would still give advice like that to a woman in 2011.

                  I didn't click through to her Facebook but I am assuming she has a normal picture there. Why should she change it?

                  Why should a woman have to hide herself from men who don't have character and brains enough to act professional?

                  Originally Posted by Clint Faber View Post

                  That is NOT sexual harassment it sounds as if you invited him into your personal environment. Men and women have to deal with the same issue when it comes to sales. It is just part of how things are.
                  Did you get here through a time warp?
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                  • Profile picture of the author tpw
                    Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

                    I'm pretty sure there were more people who suggested changing her pic, too. I can't believe that people would still give advice like that to a woman in 2011.

                    Or even to non-women... :p
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                    • Profile picture of the author rts2271
                      Men have 2 heads, but only enough blood for one to function at a time.
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                      • Profile picture of the author sam12six
                        Originally Posted by rts2271 View Post

                        Men have 2 heads, but only enough blood for one to function at a time.
                        And women only have 1, but it never functions properly because they have a leak and once a month they lose the blood required to power the brain.

                        See, even if it's a joke, insulting half the people on this planet is pointless. This thread is not about "Men are bad... just a bunch of brainless horndogs." It's about how to respond when a client gets overly personal (and to a certain extent, things to consider before you decide that a client actually has become overly familiar).

                        While it wouldn't have gotten nearly the same attention, the thread could have been about "A potential client asked if he could come over to my house and swim in my pool." or "A would be customer invited me to his kid's birthday party." - neither of which people would consider open season on males.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          It can be a problem but it can be handled - especially when the communication is ONLINE. Why on earth would any woman receive an inappropriate message and act as if it didn't happen?

          When the message was received after WEEKS of communication - signals were mixed up somewhere.

          Always interesting to see responses from macho types and from those to the left of puberty.

          I posted and then saw this and really had to laugh - so true:

          Meh... being a guy and knowing a lot of guys, this isn't necessarily true. There are guys that are so lonely and hard up (no pun intended) that any sort of attention could be misconstrued as a "signal" even when one wasn't sent.
          That's exactly why you guard against allowing personal conversations. I've seen this behavior in business offline and online - amazing how many men going into a casino or an office think any pretty woman is just waiting to be hit on.

          Let's face it - for some men, the fact you're female is enough! The term for that is "loser".

          kay
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


            Always interesting to see responses from macho types and from those to the left of puberty.
            Well, in your avatar you have model thin legs, a skirt up around your armpits and very big pouty velvety red lips....

            So, for someone with a fetish for cartoon characters, you're sending the wrong signals out too Kay.

            Just saying.
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          • Profile picture of the author quyasspk
            Women faces such problems and its not a fair business.Any topic if have any concerned with sexual things,Always get more bigger responses just because sex is as important as food or anything else but doing business ethically is also very important specially when doing business with women's.
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          • Profile picture of the author bretski
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            It can be a problem but it can be handled - especially when the communication is ONLINE. Why on earth would any woman receive an inappropriate message and act as if it didn't happen?

            When the message was received after WEEKS of communication - signals were mixed up somewhere.

            Always interesting to see responses from macho types and from those to the left of puberty.
            Ignoring the inappropriate message would be one way of sending a message that the advances or innuendo was not appreciated or reciprocated. It is just one way of dealing with the situation and it looks like it worked.

            Whether the client had only one thing in mind or not, he obviously got the message. It could be that he was embarrassed or that he did have only one thing on his mind. If so, then his loss. He missed out on doing business with someone that was really cool, could have helped his business etc.

            We have no way of knowing what was going through the client's mind nor do we have the content of the messages that were sent back and forth. Yes, something must have been misconstrued or taken out of context but to says that the OP was sending mixed messages without knowing the content is like saying that a woman deserves inappropriate advances and comments because she wears heels and a short skirt.
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          • Profile picture of the author bretski
            Originally Posted by Danielle Clarke View Post

            Women know when a line has been crossed. And men should know too. If they don't, it is the responsibility of women to tell them.
            Which is why God invented tazers

            Originally Posted by Danielle Clarke View Post

            Just as it is the responsibility of women to command and demand respect through their words and deeds, and not give mixed signals.
            But some guys are such awkward, messed up, testosterone inflated idjuts that all it takes is a pretty girl talking to them and they start thinking with their little head. No means no and even ignoring the advances means no.
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Come on people, I've got Lauryn on my friends list here and I've read a lot of her posts. I genuinely don't think she's here to troll her signature.

        It's an internet marketing forum after all and as a bloke I couldn't give a blind monkeys s*** about reading a book for women on why her chap cheated on her.

        Maybe I'm wrong but she's always seemed very genuine to me and having looked on another forum what they write about a certain member here I think this is a subject that could help a lot of people....Sadly not for me but then again my avatars a bit blurry.
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        • Profile picture of the author Lauryn
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          Come on people, I've got Lauryn on my friends list here and I've read a lot of her posts. I genuinely don't think she's here to troll her signature.

          It's an internet marketing forum after all and as a bloke I couldn't give a blind monkeys s*** about reading a book for women on why her chap cheated on her.

          Maybe I'm wrong but she's always seemed very genuine to me and having looked on another forum what they write about a certain member here I think this is a subject that could help a lot of people....Sadly not for me but then again my avatars a bit blurry.
          Thank you.

          I didn't sign up here yesterday and come posting today.
          Some of the posters are deflecting from the main point of the thread and that is the fact that in a business setting, sometimes any woman will be harassed and hit on.

          I had to "like" the page in order to see how active the content was on there for a consulting analysis. That's how the settings were set.

          As far as I'm concerned I could try and go out of my way to convince the disbelievers differently, but it serves no purpose. They'll reach for anything to discredit this post. Nevermind that, as Richard said, I've posted and responded on many topics before.

          Whatever.

          Thanks to those of you who actually cared enough to bypass the need to attempt to psychoanalyze my post and "look" for attempts to troll - and provided helpful and honest feedback.
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          I Go Hard = "Slanguage" for putting forth a lot of effort.

          Don't be an arse and try to flip something you clearly have no knowledge of against me.

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    • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Ignoring the inappropriate message would be one way of sending a message that the advances or innuendo was not appreciated or reciprocated. It is just one way of dealing with the situation and it looks like it worked.
        The comment was due to the statement...

        then halts all contact when I'm non-responsive on FB but press on as if nothing happened in the emails.
        You can drop the person (which I would do) cold - but you can't press on with emails to him as if nothing happened. That was my point.

        kay
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        • Profile picture of the author bretski
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          You can drop the person (which I would do) cold - but you can't press on with emails to him as if nothing happened. That was my point.

          kay
          Either option works and by simply ignoring the inappropriate email she sent a signal that basically said "this relationship is about work and nothing else" without trying to embarrass the guy. She already had a lot of time invested in the client and I'm sure she just wanted the signed contract without the "bonus package".
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    • Profile picture of the author Lauryn
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      Hmm,

      Your avatar says, "I GO HARD". You have relationship type links in your signature. Your post is about a man who fits the "cheating type" profile.

      This thread is pure......

      SIGNATURE TROLL!

      I don't believe a word of it.

      I Go Hard is a hip-hop euphemism.

      My website material is a niche. Maybe if you could think more intelligently you could suffice it.

      Try harder. :rolleyes:
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      Don't be an arse and try to flip something you clearly have no knowledge of against me.

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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Well, in your avatar you have model thin legs, a skirt up around your armpits and very big pouty velvety red lips....
        My avatar is compliments of Michael Mayo - maybe I should have him pull my skirt down a bit I guess I appeal to those with a Disney fetish.

        Truth is, if you're female, this is something you have deal with. Sometimes you can steer clear of the gender issue and sometimes people don't get the message. I think it's better than it used to be - but it will always be there.

        kay
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Lauryn,
        Maybe if you could think more intelligently you could suffice it.
        Ummm... You may want to reconsider that kind of comment. Russ isn't one of our weaker thinkers.

        You might find it useful to consider the image the things he points out project to those who don't know any more than what's in this thread. Or you might not, if you're not really looking for considered responses to your question. Up to you.


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        • Profile picture of the author Lauryn
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Lauryn,Ummm... You may want to reconsider that kind of comment. Russ isn't one of our weaker thinkers.

          You might find it useful to consider the image the things he points out project to those who don't know any more than what's in this thread. Or you might not, if you're not really looking for considered responses to your question. Up to you.


          Paul
          Again,

          "I Go Hard" is simply a term from hip-hop culture.
          My client isn't on the Warrior forum, and he has no knowledge of my relationship site.

          I fail to see the connection but again, it is what it is. Reaching.
          Signature

          I Go Hard = "Slanguage" for putting forth a lot of effort.

          Don't be an arse and try to flip something you clearly have no knowledge of against me.

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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Here's the connection.

            If your clients/market is strictly hip hop, the phrase is understandable.

            To anyone not knowing hip hop jargon, the phrase may appear to have a different meaning. When combined with the gender topics in the signature, it can be confusing.

            I had a trainer years ago who insisted "perception" is critical in business. It doesn't matter, he said, what you mean or how important a term/phrase is to you personally. It only matters how you are perceived when you say certain things. I argued with him - thought he was crazy - I knew better, blah blah.

            He was right but it took me a long time to admit it. Online you are judged by your words. You can't use facial expression or body language to convey meaning. With your avatar, your signature and posts you draw a picture in people's minds of who YOU are.

            If someone like Rus forms a wrong perception - might be a good idea to take a critical look to see if you're drawing the right picture

            kay
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          • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
            My friend advised me to place a sexual-harassment clause in my contract that says if I'm sexually-harassed in an unwelcome manner, the client forfeits any fees paid for services and terminates the contract immediately.
            This would be a very bad idea.

            Do you know what happens when you say "Don't think of a pink elephant"? That's exactly what someone starts thinking about. Same thing for "I am honest and will never rip you off." Any time you put something into a contract that isn't normally there, you bring up a topic that is normally not part of discourse with clients and get people thinking or wondering about exactly what you didn't want them to be thinking about.

            My own view is "no tolerance." Someone acts inappropriately and I will not work for them even one more minute.

            There are loads of respectful clients out there for you!

            Marcia Yudkin
            (Now celebrating my 30th year in business)
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by Lauryn View Post

            Again,

            "I Go Hard" is simply a term from hip-hop culture.
            My client isn't on the Warrior forum, and he has no knowledge of my relationship site.

            I fail to see the connection but again, it is what it is. Reaching.
            Lauryn, take this for what it's worth - from a 53 year old white guy with no real knowledge of hiphop culture beyond what's portrayed on TV.

            Your client may not be aware of your avatar here, or your cheating site, but if hiphop culture is as highly sexualized as it is made to seem, he may have seen signals you didn't know you were sending.

            I don't know, since I haven't seen any of the back and forth (including the message that so offended you).

            That's not an excuse for bad behavior, mind you. Rather than ignoring his FB message, it might have been better to respond right there. Maybe told him that you found the message inappropriate for your business relationship, and that you were willing to let it slide this time and would continue to correspond by email.

            On one end of the spectrum, you have drooling Neanderthals for whom the most important trait a woman could have is the appropriate plumbing. On the other end, you have hypersensitive females who think any male old enough to harbor the thought is coveting their body, and is highly offended at the mere thought of that.

            In between, you have most of the human race. We're built to covet each others' bodies. Most of us are smart enough to respect the boundaries (once we know where they are) in the interest of taking care of business.

            I'll leave you with a quote from Robin Williams in one of his old stage acts...

            "The proof that God has a sense of humor lies in the fact that she gave men a brain and a penis and only enough blood to run one at a time..."
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          • Profile picture of the author Geeked Labs
            I think the only way to stop guys from "trying" is to completely work with female clients. Men will risk death and destruction for the slight possibility of getting a women into the sack. It's pretty much the basis of every single tv show since tv existed.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        I don't listen to hip-hop so I can only look at your avatar in relation to your post and make some type of connection, which others here apparently did as well.

        Anyways I'm going to mitigate any further potential for this escalating into a flame war by dropping this altogether.

        Bye!

        Originally Posted by Lauryn View Post

        I Go Hard is a hip-hop euphemism.

        My website material is a niche. Maybe if you could think more intelligently you could suffice it.

        Try harder. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael D Forbes
    Disclaimer - before anyone flames me, please read what I'm saying carefully -

    Lauryn, I know nothing about you except that you are a woman, and I am not placing any blame on you whatsoever. Here are a couple things to consider, from a mans perspective:

    1) You may be sending more "signals" than you realize - Your signature has a link to a sexually related blog, I have no idea what your avatar icon means, but in the context of this thread, I'm probably not the only one that has thought ???? Additionally, you say you have a pen name in the sex/romance arena.

    I say this to make the point that you are possibly projecting a more receptive image than you think you are, even if only subconsciously. Some men can feel that vibe through a dozen layers of professionalism, no matter how a woman may try to mask it. I think it literally is a function of "chemistry" that is not possible to hide.

    2) If you are an attractive woman, or even a very average woman, or even a homely looking woman with a great personality, you are going to get unwanted attention from time to time. Well, truth be said, even if you are ugly as a warthog and have the personality of a withered turnip, you may still get unwanted attention at times.

    3) Mr. Businessman may well have contacted you in a moment of loneliness, drunkedness, or may have been so charmed by you that he just "couldn't help" but take the risk. People do stupid things all the time, it sounds like he may possibly regret his actions since he has not pursued it any further. I'm not excusing him - his actions were unacceptable.

    4) Human interactions are very complex, crushes form and flee on a moments whim. It's part of life.

    5) Assuming "highly inappropriate" is as bad as it sounds, I would recommend that you don't do business with him. It indicates a man that isn't in control of his actions, and acts on impulse... that WILL translate into your business relationship and probably burn you. Just drop him and move on.

    6) I have been on the receiving end of such situations a few times, and it has left me scratching my head wondering what I could have done differently. I recall a situation where I plainly mentioned my wife and children several times in glowing terms, and that made the woman all the more determined to chase me it seemed. I don't think you can anticipate how anyone will react to your "protections".

    Bottom line? Do your best to be aware of signals you may be sending, realize that no matter how careful you are situations will happen, don't get too bothered by it, drop the pervs like a hot rock and move on to people that operate with integrity.

    my 3 cents
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    • Profile picture of the author bretski
      When I had my brick and mortar business (dog grooming... not selling bricks and mortar) I used to get calls all day long from folks wanting to sell me stuff. Everything from advertising to cleaning supplies to credit card machines. I found it very easy to blow off the guys and even just hang up on them. A woman calling or stopping by would at least get a listen. I was never inappropriate or even flirtatious with any of these women but from my point of view, it is easier for a woman to sell offline. I say, use this to your advantage.

      In the same breath though, I will say that anyone that steps over the line and makes you feel uncomfortable does need a reality check. Some of the female sales people that I do business with these days interject in some way that they have a boyfriend or husband when things start to get personal. By "personal" I mean when talk of business moves to "how was your weekend" or "are you going away over the holiday".

      Doing business is all about creating relationships and I have many friends these days that started out as business relationships. Just because a couple of jerks spin into five dimensions of freak, don't change who you are, how you dress or wish that you were fat and ugly. Don't give them the power.

      There will always be freaks out there. If you are attractive you will meet them pumping gas, when buying groceries, at your place of work, living in your neighborhood... In your own business you can fire the freaks just as you would any other difficult customer. Issue resolved.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rick Britton
    if it was signature trolling it was way too advanced for me...
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  • Profile picture of the author IMWinner
    There are clients who are really trying to flirt with their advisers or sales agent, especially if they are attractive ladies. It comes in both ways, since there are also these female agents who will also try to flirt with their clients in the purpose of trying to win them to their company or products. I have some personal experience with that since this one female agent I had encountered, a very attractive and seductive lady, will always try to win something from me every time she presents a new product to our area. And as always, wearing some short skirts and loose blouse to really win the heart and attention of male clients. Of course, that is hard to resist but later, you can really observed if the flirting is really real or just the normal way to get the attention of client.
    On the other way around, there are those "predator" clients that would somehow try to push some female agents to their limits as they would try to harass her since they have this assumption that most of them will not try to resist just because they want to promote something. I have a wife and a sister and I really don't want that situation would happen to them. It's just respect to agents and that we have to understand that being in that situation, we have to be as professional as we are.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    Some guys get very little interactions with attractive women. When they meet one who also happens to be a good communicator and one who is seemingly interested in everything he has to say some erroneously jump to the wrong conclusion. I imagine he avoided OP afterward out of embarrassment more than anything else.

    I have met women sales pros that actually were extreme flirts. Did OP lead the dude on in this case? Not saying that all.

    Just interjecting a viewpoint from the testosterone side of things.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Lauryn,
    I fail to see the connection
    So it seems.

    I'm not passing judgment, ma'am. I'm simply pointing out a way for you to get a better understanding of the way others perceive you. If you look at your responses to some of these posts, you may find even more useful things to consider. Like, for example, what it is that drives you to respond to some of these comments in a dismissive fashion.

    Or you may not care. Perfectly valid choice. Just make sure you're choosing, and not acting from a default reflex.


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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    this is a difficult thing in todays society. i am not advocating it, but lets face it sex sells. look at godaddy or countless other advertisers who are using sex to push their products.

    this advertising is training the public to accept and think this sort of behavior is appropriate.

    and like some others have mentioned, i do think that a certain level of flirtatious behavior is acceptable. if no one was ever allow to flirt, not only would the world be a lot more boring, but we would have a lot less couples or marriages. they all started with flirting.

    that being said, there are obvious lines. and then there are no so obvious lines which are much harder for anyone to know exactly. i had a business partner one time who would always hug or put is arm around female business people. i never felt comfortable with that. was he sexually them? sure, i am 100% positive it made some of those females feel somewhat uncomfortable, but was it enough to be consider harassment or even a crime.

    most would think not honestly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jerry Reily
    I had a trainer years ago who insisted "perception" is critical in business. It doesn't matter, he said, what you mean or how important a term/phrase is to you personally. It only matters how you are perceived when you say certain things. I argued with him - thought he was crazy - I knew better, blah blah.
    How we are perceived is our reality. People don't care what we think of ourselves. If we ignore criticism, we are ignoring ourselves for the chance to improve.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMAnthony
    Originally Posted by Danielle Clarke View Post

    All irrelevant.

    The OP, Lauryn, is clearly a professional woman. If she is perceived as attractive, that does not mean there is an open and unsolicited invitation to treat her as anything other than a 100% professional businesswoman.

    If an attractive woman chooses to market herself in any way that is deliberately provocative, then that is their prerogative and they will understand the consequences of potentially inappropriate responses.
    Im not so sure, Facebook was created for dating. Period. The ways how you manage it is because your are in the IM niche, but any man is looking for an affaire, that is the reality, and many women do too.

    Now do not misunderstand me, of course she can market herself, but she would be prepared to face it. What she is asking is advice on how to manage the situation, so if she is attractive and... let's say "hot" or "sexy", she has to choice between fight legally against all the male potential clients because Facebook is mostly used for that(dating), and for IM of course.

    So, in this case she has to choose:1)To tell the client clearly that she is only to make bussiness, and if he wants to get the high quality work from her, he must change his attitude, if it gets worse, then tell him clearly "I am seriously thinking on denounce you are harrarsing me", 2) not to say anything and let the client keep harrasing her and get the money for the job, or 3) stop him and take legal action against him (I think this is the right thing and she will win) and lose that client and potential good feebacks, which are vital for this kind of bussiness, or 4) just changes her photo and profile.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Facebook was created to date. Period.
      What color is the sky in your Universe?


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  • Profile picture of the author Rocket Media
    The guy that sent that message is a serious creep. There's a time and place for flirting, even if it is with a client. If you're both single, being playful and flirting is apart of interaction with the opposite sex. With that said... A weird message on Facebook is DEFINITELY sexual harrassment and is on a total different level.

    I'm young and consider myself fairly attractive and I find that when talking to successful people and prospective clients, being confident, funny, and making good eye contact earns a winning friendship which helps lead to trust and a business relationship.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      The same color that the Facebook's creator.
      It's geek pink? Cool!

      Facebook has options that fit with dating, and some people use it for that purpose, but it's hardly the only - or even primary - way most people use it. At least not in the US or Canada. I couldn't say how it's perceived, marketed or used in other countries.


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      • Profile picture of the author IMAnthony
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        It's geek pink? Cool!

        Facebook has options that fit with dating, and some people use it for that purpose, but it's hardly the only - or even primary - way most people use it. At least not in the US or Canada. I couldn't say how it's perceived, marketed or used in other countries.


        Paul
        I hope you understand what i wrote before, for the only reason you are in the WF too.
        I do not know how you see the universe`s sky color of the facebook's creator.
        but if you say that is geek pink,ok, it is.

        Just let me tel you that all people from all the countries use Facebook for the same purpose, know new people, contact all frineds etc, and yes of course Facebook fit with dating and yes it is the mainly reason was created for, do not believe it? Just try to see it as most of the people sees, a place where a boy can get girls profile very easy to get a date.
        Sex sells, and sells well.

        Of course its not a place claiming 'hey get sex tonight', but as marketer you know how this work dont you?
        If you or your friend do not use for that is because you use it for BUSSINESS.
        Facebook does not causes divorces. People do. But People who use Facebook do more.
        Affairs, is the goal, for most of the marriend people. Who says that in his/her country just that does not happen, he/she is who is living in a pink universe.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
          Originally Posted by blueriver View Post

          Affairs, is the goal, for most of the marriend people. Who says that in his/her country just that does not happen, he/she is who is living in a pink universe.
          Well I'm glad I got that straightened out. I always wondered what the big goal after marriage was, and I know now it's to have an affair!

          *Whistles happily off to facebook to hook up and have an affair. Rob now feels like his life has purpose and meaning.

          Rob - The Happily Married Man Looking for an Affair
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          • Profile picture of the author IMAnthony
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            It's geek pink? Cool!

            Facebook has options that fit with dating, and some people use it for that purpose, but it's hardly the only - or even primary - way most people use it. At least not in the US or Canada. I couldn't say how it's perceived, marketed or used in other countries.


            Paul
            Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

            Well I'm glad I got that straightened out. I always wondered what the big goal after marriage was, and I know now it's to have an affair!

            *Whistles happily off to facebook to hook up and have an affair. Rob now feels like his life has purpose and meaning.

            Rob - The Happily Married Man Looking for an Affair
            Ok, "affair is the goal of the most of the married people using facebook"
            is that ok for you?
            Let me know how I could improve my posts since English is not my primary language.
            Thankyou

            P.D. Just in case, now you know what the next step in your marriage...but I really hope you have not figured out before....
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          • Profile picture of the author Jerry Reily
            Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

            Well I'm glad I got that straightened out. I always wondered what the big goal after marriage was, and I know now it's to have an affair!

            *Whistles happily off to facebook to hook up and have an affair. Rob now feels like his life has purpose and meaning.

            Rob - The Happily Married Man Looking for an Affair
            Ha! The visual is just awesome. :p
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  • Originally Posted by Lauryn View Post

    What gives? What to do? How do you handle this and separate the serious from the time-wasting?
    Grow a thicker skin, ignore him, and move on.
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  • Profile picture of the author dark witness
    tell him your born again, and he should come to church to meet your Dad who is a pastor, that usually sets most people straight.

    Joking aside, just be straight up with him. it's business and even though he is a nice guy ( blah blah blah ), you would appreciate it if he kept this in mind. if he keeps it up, then just say you are sorry but you won't be able to work with him.

    the message needs to be enforced from beginning to end that you are professional.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Well, I think your English is fine.

    But - I'm a married man. I use facebook. I'm not looking to have an affair.

    That's not to say that people have never used facebook to have an affair. But I can tell you this, I know my friend group well and I don't know a single married couple that is looking for an affair through facebook.

    In fact, I could counter your argument and say that facebook is primarily used for Farmville or other games, based on what my news feed looks like.

    The point is social networking is used for a variety of reasons, affairs, playing games, connecting with old school mates, or keeping in touch with family.

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author IMAnthony
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      Well, I think your English is fine.

      But - I'm a married man. I use facebook. I'm not looking to have an affair.

      That's not to say that people have never used facebook to have an affair. But I can tell you this, I know my friend group well and I don't know a single married couple that is looking for an affair through facebook.

      In fact, I could counter your argument and say that facebook is primarily used for Farmville or other games, based on what my news feed looks like.

      The point is social networking is used for a variety of reasons, affairs, playing games, connecting with old school mates, or keeping in touch with family.

      Rob
      I understand you, but , really do you think that everybody who is looking an affair is saying it like that?

      Things happen, I do not doubt you are telling me what is your experience, but on the other hand I know a lot of people who has catched his/her wife/husband flirting on facebook.
      This is something very common, and really no your friends nor mine are going to put in their wall "I am lookingfor an affaire".

      Just be supossed I find somebody married that uses Facebook and says that he never look for an affair, and I will tell him:

      But if you have your wife/husband and you are happy with her/him.
      What a hell are you doing behind a computer screen, at your comfortable house, watching the nice/sexies profiles/pictures from sexies, pretties, hot, or cute women that are NOT your wife?
      Why are you chating with her when your wife is no watching you?
      Why do you get her telephone number?

      Ok, your friends do not do that, neither even you, ok neither mine.
      But, wow! surprise that the thing that most of the people are doing.
      And not only the young people, all the people, everyday I hear some news related to somebody I know, about heving problems whit this situation, or his daughter, or his friend.

      Im not judging anybody, and definitely Facebook is an open door. But it is no possible that a woman has to be under sexual harrasment only for being in Facebook. And she has to take legal action against any man who tries to do it. But definitely is something that every young woman who uses a real profile and offers a service, has to be prepared to face.

      Just saying what I have seen as a "standart" user of FB, having a lot of friends in it.
      But as my goal is succed in MMI, I see FB like the great opportunity to explode the social potential it has.

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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick
    The word "sexual" did attract many to this thread...
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  • Profile picture of the author Angelz
    If I was a woman and any guy dared to sexually harass me I would tell him straight up, I will not be doing business with you, please never message me again. I would rather be poor than be used like that. So you have to make that decision. What is more important to you: Your dignity, or money.

    It is like whenever a client of mine says anything rude to me or demands anything like they are entitled to it and it wasn't part of the original agreement. I straight up tell them to piss off. I would rather be poor then bend over for some jerk.
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  • Profile picture of the author PatrickP
    I would change your fb pic. Not fair but it would cut down on this a lot I would think.

    I have 5 older sisters and they have said the same solution.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      I guess there is a broad line between what is sexual harassment and possibly "flirting for fun and profit."

      I think I definitely fall into the flirting for fun and profit arena.

      However, I was going back and forth with one for a few weeks. All serious business. I'm waiting for the contract, and I like his FB fan page for the business (so I can analyze it). He sends a friend request, which I accept, only to send a highly inappropriate message, and then halts all contact when I'm non-responsive on FB but press on as if nothing happened in the emails.
      How hard would it have been to just tell him you are already involved right out of the gate and then see if you can still conduct some business?

      How do you handle this and separate the serious from the time-wasting?
      I have no idea how descriptive or inappropriate the message was that you got, and my ideas of inappropriate may be much different than yours. But if there had been some flirting going on initially and someone happened to try to take it a step further then I'd ease them back and let them know I was flattered but not interested in that particular type of relationship. And then carry on as usual and see if they wanted to have some work done.

      If I was somehow really offended or concerned by something said, I would not ignore it like it never happened. That would need to be addressed immediately or could fester into something bigger down the road.
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post


        I think I definitely fall into the flirting for fun and profit arena.
        You've been leading me on all this time?

        I can't believe this Jill.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        Orite I bowed out in my conversation with the OP but I can't help myself. I have to let you know that...

        Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post


        .."flirting for fun and profit."...
        Is available as a domain! Snatch it up! Go Go Go! :p:p
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  • Profile picture of the author barbling
    Life is just too darned short to deal with clients/customers who refuse to treat you like the professional you are.

    I'd give one attempt at the deflecting respose (ie, let's keep this professional) and then if that didn't work, I'd fire the customer.

    Treat others as you want to be (and expect to be) treated, I always say.
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  • Profile picture of the author absolutelee
    Well, I don't have this problem. But if I were you, I would just dump this client! I'm sure there are plenty of male clients out there who are gentlemen--by far most, in fact. There is no check big enough to make up for abuse, whether it's what you're talking about, or other forms of abuse. If you let yourself be abused like this, it will slowly corrupt your self-image and you'll end up making less money anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Married and boyfriend are not an issue for a lot of people.

    I have been hit on by married women and women with boyfriends at home.

    It is not a concern to me at all, but just saying, indicating a husband or a boyfriend is not enough to dissuade some people.

    I have even been hit on by women who were either married or living with another guy, who knew I was married, and not knowing whether I am monogamous or not.

    My point is this...

    If you want the inappropriate behavior to stop, be direct and forceful in your assertion that you will not go there with the individual in question. When you want to shut someone's advances down, beating around the bush is not going to help your cause. The only thing you can do to stop the advances is to be direct and assertive about where you stand.

    If that costs you a client, then so be it. The best place for some of your clients is in the ex- category.




    p.s. As I finish reading this thread, I just realized that I am looking for affairs in all the wrong places... I'm off to FaceBook now...
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  • Profile picture of the author Ram
    Actually, Facebook was created as a "Hot or Not" type of site where users ranked people based on their looks.

    But it evolved.
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Hatfield
    I am no expert on this subject but I am not too sure that "subtle flirtations" like you mention in your post qualifies as sexual harassment. Maybe they are just giving you compliments.

    Either way until you let them know that you feel their comments are being received are making you feel uncomfortable then how do they know to stop.

    How many of your potential clients are hitting on you? If it is just a couple then tell them to stop. On the other hand, if it is a lot then maybe you need to examine your own emails and see if you are not inadvertently flirting with them without realizing it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Just let me tel you that all people from all the countries use Facebook for the same purpose, know new people, contact all frineds etc, and yes of course Facebook fit with dating and yes it is the mainly reason was created for, do not believe it? Just try to see it as most of the people sees, a place where a boy can get girls profile very easy to get a date.
      Sex sells, and sells well.
      A whole new perspective on "I have 1000 friends on Facebook".
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  • Profile picture of the author sam12six
    The problem with sexual harassment as a concept (and worse as an actionable offense) is that it does not rely on what a person did, it relies on another person's reaction to what was done. In other words, the "line" you're not supposed to cross moves when dealing with different people - hell, when dealing with the same people in different moods.

    I don't know if the guy's incredibly inappropriate email to you was "...cover your naked body with honey, then my goat and I will..." or "...maybe get together for a drink sometime..." because I don't know your tolerances and how you feel about the guy. Assuming you're not overreacting, there are a couple of possibilities to consider before assuming he's a creep:

    As others have mentioned, you may be giving off signals you don't realize. I had a buddy who was into Amway and was one of those annoying people who tried to sell the program everywhere he went. His wife would fly off the handle about how he was just using it as an excuse to try and pick up girls. I knew the guy pretty well and this was not true. He truly believed the program was a way for him to build a business. His wife was gorgeous, so I chalked it up to that insecurity really pretty people usually suffer - until I saw him try to "sell" a woman for the first time. His entire demeanor was different than dealing with men. I casually pointed out that he came off as someone trying to get some and not someone trying to discuss a business. He literally had no clue he was sending those vibes out until I mentioned specific differences in how he "sold" men and women.

    Another very real possibility is the single, isolated offensive message was a mistake. I was shooting pool with a buddy once and I got an email from his wife. It was very explicit about what was waiting at home - including a picture. After he and I managed to stop laughing, I replied to her, "I'm there babe!! Only one thing, I'm with Danny. Should I ditch him somewhere or will he be cool watching TV in the other room?" - she couldn't look me in the eye for weeks after that incident.

    Assuming you haven't overreacted to something, you weren't unknowingly sending encouraging signals, and it wasn't an accident, maybe the guy was a creep. It's no big deal. There are creeps everywhere. Unfriend him and go on about your business...
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  • Profile picture of the author Clint Faber
    That is NOT sexual harassment it sounds as if you invited him into your personal environment. Men and women have to deal with the same issue when it comes to sales. It is just part of how things are. If you really want to see what things are really like get into sales in the TV industry go out and purchase some ad spots in the local TV station. They are called sales reps and their job is to seduce wine and dine you so you will spend advertisement money with them.
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  • Profile picture of the author ColinChia
    WOW - This thread really went HARD!

    Well, business and sex just never goes down too good...

    Always ends up complicating everything... ALWAYS!
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  • Profile picture of the author sam12six
    I would make a joke like that too but it would not have the intention to mean like that. The only thing that was insulted imo are us men.
    I'm not 100% sure what you mean.

    I was just illustrating that a joke that arbitrarily insults an entire gender is not funny - mine wasn't and neither was the one I responded to.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    Bah. People shouldn't be so sensitive. If you don't like the sexual attention, stop being so feminine. (that's the realistic answer, sorry if you're too cowardice and naive to acknowledge the truth of the matter and human nature.)
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    That's like a piece of cake saying "Omg, some fat kid ate me!" -sob-

    Understand the nature of humanity and buck up.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
      Lauryn,

      You've gotten a lot of good feedback in this thread. While I don't know you, I do have to agree with those who have suggested the possibility that you may give mixed messages without even realizing it.

      I do think one of the first mistakes you made was accepting his friend request. I realize everyone has different opinions on this, but that, IMO, could easily have given him the impression that you were open to the potential of something more than a business relationship. I do realize that many people use FB as a marketing tool and would probably say it's fine to "friend" business associates and clients. Regardless, it may have given THIS guy the wrong impression, without you even realizing it. So, perhaps a lesson to learn for future clients.

      The other mistake I think you made (not blaming you for the situation - so please don't take it that way) was ignoring the FB message but continuing to email him. While ignoring a blatant come on will stop some people in their tracks, either because they then feel embarrassed or accept the lack of response as a "no", a more direct approach works best in many cases. That being said, I wasn't clear from your posts if his inappropriate behavior was a one time thing. So, perhaps he did get the message. (Sorry if I missed this somewhere in the thread.)

      Regardless, I think it would have been best to have firmly clarified your boundaries as soon as he sent the message, rather than ignoring it; OR, terminate the business relationship if it was as "highly inappropriate" as you say it was - I mean, why would you really want to keep that client if he was that inappropriate? I realize you had already invested a lot of time in this client, but just something to think about.

      As for the whole sexual harrassment issue. That is a very serious term and should never be used lightly (and I'm not saying that you are - I don't know). While I have no idea of the content of the FB message from this person, I would think it odd for you to continue corresponding with him "as if nothing happened" if you truly felt his actions qualified as "sexual harrassment". Again, I don't know you or your character, but I would strongly encourage you to ask yourself why on earth you would continue with this business relationship if you thought his behavior fit into that category.
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  • Profile picture of the author terrapurus
    Coming into the conversation a little late, but here is my take ...

    You are at fault because you stepped over the line.

    Let me illustrate ...

    > However, I was going back and forth with one for a few weeks. All serious business.

    All pretty normal.

    > I'm waiting for the contract, and I like his FB fan page for the business (so I can analyze it).

    You took an action before a formal business relationship was established. Nor did you say "while waiting for the contract I am going to start reviewing your networking assets".

    Normal, but raises eyebrows.

    > He sends a friend request

    Inappropriate, but all part of everyday business for men and women.

    > which I accept

    And there is the line in the sand with your footprint firmly planted on the unprofessional side. He might have flirted with you, but men don't KEEP flirting with women who don't reciprocate (unless they are socially incompetent).

    But regardless of that, you moved from a business relationship to a personal relationship. And then you say his next email was inappropriate? Not really ... perhaps an awkward approach for someone not good at asking a woman out or for sex ... but your foot is still over that line. He realizes as this point you are not really reciprocating and he quickly withdraws. Men don't want to freely discuss being turned down, so he cuts back to the last safe point and that is a pure business relationship. He thinks "dealt with if it comes up and write it off as being awkard".

    My advice ...

    1. Realize where you went wrong.

    2. Take responsibility in admitting you were wrong (to yourself ... if you deflect blame this will just happen again).

    3. Build a bridge and get over it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by sam12six View Post

      And women only have 1, but it never functions properly because they have a leak and once a month they lose the blood required to power the brain.
      That's just wrong.

      And you got it all wrong.

      How I heard it was, "Never trust something that bleeds for 7 days and doesn't die." :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Rocket Media
        Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

        That's just wrong.

        And you got it all wrong.

        How I heard it was, "Never trust something that bleeds for 7 days and doesn't die." :p
        lmao! now thats humor
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    • Profile picture of the author terrapurus
      Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

      If a man is so socially inept that he doesn't know if a woman is open to him sexually, ask.

      She'll tell you.
      Asking is the definition of being socially inept. In the case where there is sexual tension between two people (generally speaking, not specifically referring to this instance), if the guy has to ask verbally, then he has already failed. This communication takes place on the non-verbal level. Don't mistake this for a lack of communication ... because just the opposite is going on.

      If a guy verbally 'asks', all he is going to get is the 'I see you just as a friend' conversation. He fails her test as soon as he opens his mouth (in the case where she is interested but he has not made his move yet, she may initiate but that is rarer... now that brings back some memories with married women ... but I digress...)

      In this instance, I guaranteed she flirted. All attractive business women do it and they use it as a powerful tool in their sales arsenal. The problem here is the OP continued that 'business flirtation' which is perfectly acceptable into a personal interaction, which is not.

      This is not a 'my client propositioned me' thread. This is my 'friend on facebook who I met through work' propositioned me thread.

      She stepped over the professional line. Call a spade a spade and deal with the actual consequences of those actions.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by terrapurus View Post

      2. Take responsibility in admitting you were wrong (to yourself ... if you deflect blame this will just happen again).
      So Lauryn liked his FB page and he assumed that obviously mean't she wanted to have sex with him and your advice is that Lauryn should take responsibility for being in the wrong?

      Do you by any chance have to take special tablets to keep your mind on the straight and narrow?

      Thomas - You know you want me to lick your head. That's why you keep PMing me offers of your reduced rates. Honestly :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author terrapurus
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        So Lauryn liked his FB page and he assumed that obviously mean't she wanted to have sex with him and your advice is that Lauryn should take responsibility for being in the wrong?
        The issue has nothing to do with her liking his liking a FB page.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by terrapurus View Post

          The issue has nothing to do with her liking his liking a FB page.
          Really?

          However, I was going back and forth with one for a few weeks. All serious business. I'm waiting for the contract, and I like his FB fan page for the business (so I can analyze it). He sends a friend request, which I accept, only to send a highly inappropriate message, and then halts all contact when I'm non-responsive on FB but press on as if nothing happened in the emails.
          So she was doing business, she liked his FB page to analyse it, he sends a friend request and she accepts, so he thinks she must want sex and sends a lewd message.

          Explain to me without all the other made up nonsense why she owes him an apology?

          I guaranteed she flirted. All attractive business women do it and they use it as a powerful tool in their sales arsenal. The problem here is the OP continued that 'business flirtation' which is perfectly acceptable into a personal interaction, which is not.
          ALL attractive business women do this? Or are you just insecure in their company and it makes you feel small and insignificant?

          You don't know the OP, so explain how you gaurantee she was flirting? Or are you just saying all women are the same, incapable of anything more and they ALL flirt in a business situation?

          How do you know she continued this "business flirtation"? How is liking someones page a continuation of this flirting into a personal interaction?

          Where on Earth do you get this stuff from!
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
            Originally Posted by terrapurus View Post

            Yep. Try the next sentence she wrote. That bit is like a 'but' in a sentence. Everything before that point is irrelevant.

            I am amused how many men are clueless when it comes to women in business. Seriously, it's great fun. I could troll this lot of enablers all day.
            The next sentence she wrote? Sure, here you go...

            I'm sure other women have had to deal with this. And I'm sure a few men will say they've had to as well.

            What gives? What to do? How do you handle this and separate the serious from the time-wasting?
            Where's the "but" moment?

            More nonsense. It's irrelevant because it doesn't fit in with your perceived and made up view of the world.

            I'd say you don't have one iota of an idea how a womans mind works and most women would agree with me, hence the reason not one person in the whole thread has any agreement with you.

            Seriously, it's great fun. I could troll this lot of enablers all day.
            We agree on one thing though, you're certainly a troll. :p
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            • Profile picture of the author terrapurus
              Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

              The next sentence she wrote? Sure, here you go...
              Try this real next sentence - "He sends a friend request, which I accept, only to send a highly inappropriate message, and then halts all contact when I'm non-responsive on FB but press on as if nothing happened in the emails."

              The core part of this thread is about gender roles in negiotiation and boundaries between a mixed gender business interaction. Just google a few terms related to this and you could spend all night reading through the peer related journal articles from institutions like Harvard that discuss sexuality in business. Can I guarantee she flirted? Of course not, I don't know her. But studies show that about 9 out of 10 women flirt (or more) to further career. So the odds are on my side here.

              My point was that you can not take his actions in isolation. You have to use her activity as a baseline. The issue then evolved into just about every male contributor coming to her defense without critically evaluating her actions (this is nice guy behavior which is typical non alpha male behavior). That is not a discussion, it is simply enabling her actions. In short, they agree with her sans any genuine independent thought. So to summarize for the clueless, she stepped over a boundary and got a shock when he took that reciprocation as an invitation to advance what has now become a personal relationship.

              Lesson to learn - your clients are not your friends. Be friendly to them, but do not form personal relationships with them (sure, things are different if you have known them for 10 years and have the same set of friends ... but this did not happen here) . And if you do break this rule, admit some personal responsibility to make sure it does not happen again.

              So why is it so much fun to troll the clueless men in this thread? Because every single one of them is demonstrating 'nice guy' behavior. It is subordinate behavior. If you want to see this in action from a 3rd person perspective, just walk into any bar and watch an ordinary guy try and pick up a beautiful woman. If he gets past the initial rejection phase, she will quickly move into test mode. Agree with her and you fail the test. Seeing so many men falling over themselves to agree with her is just a fail on an epic scale.

              Agree with her if you must. But seriously men of WF ...grow a pair first and then make that decision from a neutral perspective.
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              • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                Originally Posted by terrapurus View Post

                Try this real next sentence - "He sends a friend request, which I accept, only to send a highly inappropriate message, and then halts all contact when I'm non-responsive on FB but press on as if nothing happened in the emails."
                Wrong again. I already quoted that sentence previously. You're getting very confused. Go back and read through our fun discussion and the OP again, that way you'll make less errors.

                Anyway, now we all know and you admit you're a troll, no point me feeding you.

                Either way though, I do appreciate the humour and you been great fun to play with.

                Enjoy your trolling activities, I'm off to Facebook to ask any girl that likes my comments or business page if they fancy a bit of casual sex and if they get upset, I'll send them to you so you can explain to them why they owe me an apology!
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                • Profile picture of the author terrapurus
                  Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                  Wrong again

                  Enjoy your trolling activities, I'm off to Facebook to ask any girl that likes my comments or business page if they fancy a bit of casual sex and if they get upset, I'll send them to you so you can explain to them why they owe me an apology!
                  What part of it's not about the facebook like to a business page don't you understand?

                  Liking a facebook business page and accepting a friend request are two different events. One is business based. One is personal based. The facebook like is irrelevant but you are fixated on it (you even bolded it for emphasis).
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                  • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                    Originally Posted by terrapurus View Post

                    What part of it's not about the facebook like to a business page don't you understand?

                    Liking a facebook business page and accepting a friend request are two different events. One is business based. One is personal based. The facebook like is irrelevant but you are fixated on it (you even bolded it for emphasis).
                    I understand it all. If someone sends you a friend request and there's a deal going down, in your strange mind, it means they want sex.

                    Simple.

                    Look, you've been great fun and it's been even better watching you not answer even one of my questions but you and I are on different planets and there's really no point in us talking.

                    Have a really wonderful day.
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              • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
                Originally Posted by terrapurus View Post

                It is subordinate behavior. If you want to see this in action from a 3rd person perspective, just walk into any bar and watch an ordinary guy try and pick up a beautiful woman.
                Surprisingly, you do bring up a few interesting points. There are many women who have no idea how flirtatious they are. There are also tons of men who really don't have any idea why women don't respond to or appreciate how much they go out of their way to be helpful and nice to them.

                It is the age old mystery, why do so many beautiful women end up with total jerks?

                BUT-

                Inappropriate behavior is rampant online. Personal responsibility is a needed recourse for any person who finds themselves in a situation like the one outlined at the start of this thread, to a certain degree. It doesn't though need to be considered out of the question for a female to be flirty with a potential client. Nothing wrong with it really as long as she is careful and aware of the potential signals a half wit male might fabricate. Things like making sure her address is not posted, being prepared for some lewd ignorant remark etc etc.

                The OP asked what do, how to deal with etc. Few answered constructively. Based on a few of your posts I too got the impression you find any female who is victim of sexual harassment to be the one at fault. Nice rebuttal, I see more of what your saying.

                Really though, the boundary she stepped over in accepting the friend request is not entirely ridiculous. If in fact the scenario is factual, it is borderline crazy for the guy to take that as a sexual invite via Facebook. I mean really, don't you think that is a tad looney tune? It's like a guy honking his horn at a woman walking by and wondering why she didn't take her clothes off, it's stupid.
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                • Profile picture of the author sam12six
                  Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                  That's just wrong.

                  And you got it all wrong.

                  How I heard it was, "Never trust something that bleeds for 7 days and doesn't die." :p
                  While I freely admit that's more clever than what I said, don't I at least get credit for trying to craft an unfunny joke that was somewhat symmetrical with the unfunny one I quoted?

                  ---------

                  As far as this recent argument concerning the "friending" being an invitation to sex:

                  First, we don't know what the highly inappropriate message was. He could have asked for sweaty monkey sex, or he could have said he'd like to get to know her on a more personal level. That's the problem with sexual harassment - there's no hard definition for it.

                  I once worked in an office. One of the other women working in the office stopped by my desk to ask me how to do something with the software we were working with. As she leaned over to point at my monitor, the first thing I did was throw her hair back over her shoulder so my line of sight down the front of her shirt was unobstructed. Was this sexual harassment? Absolutely not. You know why? Because she had no problem with it.

                  At another company, the president of the company had a very attractive personal assistant:

                  One of the guys who worked with us had a jpg of some celebrity chick as his desktop background. This PA was delivering paperwork to the guy and made some comment on his choice of backgrounds. In his clumsy attempt at flattery, he said something along the lines of, "She's not as pretty as you, but I'd get in trouble if I stared at you all day."

                  Was this sexual harassment? Yes it was, because she didn't like it. There was a tense meeting, office memos about inappropriate comments, new regulations on desktop customization, the works.

                  Now, one of my favorite diversions was to walk into this same PA's office, walk up behind her and unbutton her blouse so I could talk about the bra she chose to wear and what was under it. This was not sexual harassment because she didn't have a problem with it.

                  As I said earlier, sexual harassment is not about what you DO, it's about how someone FEELS about what you do.

                  Anyway, without details, we don't know whether the OP was flirtatious and we don't know how inappropriate the would-be client's message was. Not knowing these things, we can neither say she led him on nor that the guy's a creep and got too personal.

                  I do agree though, most women in sales (face-to-face sales) are extraordinarily flirtations when dealing with men. Just as most men in sales are overly enthusiastic back slappers with an endless supply of bad jokes when dealing with other men.
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                  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                    Originally Posted by sam12six View Post

                    While I freely admit that's more clever than what I said, don't I at least get credit for trying to craft an unfunny joke that was somewhat symmetrical with the unfunny one I quoted?

                    ---------

                    As far as this recent argument concerning the "friending" being an invitation to sex:

                    First, we don't know what the highly inappropriate message was. He could have asked for sweaty monkey sex, or he could have said he'd like to get to know her on a more personal level. That's the problem with sexual harassment - there's no hard definition for it.

                    I once worked in an office. One of the other women working in the office stopped by my desk to ask me how to do something with the software we were working with. As she leaned over to point at my monitor, the first thing I did was throw her hair back over her shoulder so my line of sight down the front of her shirt was unobstructed. Was this sexual harassment? Absolutely not. You know why? Because she had no problem with it.

                    At another company, the president of the company had a very attractive personal assistant:

                    One of the guys who worked with us had a jpg of some celebrity chick as his desktop background. This PA was delivering paperwork to the guy and made some comment on his choice of backgrounds. In his clumsy attempt at flattery, he said something along the lines of, "She's not as pretty as you, but I'd get in trouble if I stared at you all day."

                    Was this sexual harassment? Yes it was, because she didn't like it. There was a tense meeting, office memos about inappropriate comments, new regulations on desktop customization, the works.

                    Now, one of my favorite diversions was to walk into this same PA's office, walk up behind her and unbutton her blouse so I could talk about the bra she chose to wear and what was under it. This was not sexual harassment because she didn't have a problem with it.

                    As I said earlier, sexual harassment is not about what you DO, it's about how someone FEELS about what you do.

                    Anyway, without details, we don't know whether the OP was flirtatious and we don't know how inappropriate the would-be client's message was. Not knowing these things, we can neither say she led him on nor that the guy's a creep and got too personal.

                    I do agree though, most women in sales (face-to-face sales) are extraordinarily flirtations when dealing with men. Just as most men in sales are overly enthusiastic back slappers with an endless supply of bad jokes when dealing with other men.
                    What, Penthouse wouldn't publish your letter? :rolleyes:
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                    • Profile picture of the author sam12six
                      What, Penthouse wouldn't publish your letter?
                      I'm too vanilla for my experiences to be published that way.

                      If the idea that a woman would let you unbutton her top is something you can only relegate to the realm of fantasy, sorry.

                      That does not change the fact that interpersonal relationships are an unsure thing. Identical words or actions from one person will be received and responded to in a completely different way than from another.

                      While it is useful to discuss and get others' perspectives on where boundaries lie and how to deal with those boundaries being crossed, declaring that either party is in the wrong is something none of us can do because we are not privy to the details of the communication and the intent and state of mind of the 2 parties involved.
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                    • Profile picture of the author DebbieD
                      Lesson learned?

                      Just put the word "sex" in your thread title and you'll get tons of views, replies and opinions.

                      Some things never change.
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                      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
                        Originally Posted by DebbieD View Post

                        Lesson learned?

                        Just put the word "sex" in your thread title and you'll get tons of views, replies and opinions.

                        Some things never change.
                        And never will
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          • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
            Originally Posted by terrapurus View Post

            I am amused how many men are clueless when it comes to women in business. Seriously, it's great fun. I could troll this lot of enablers all day.
            I find it amusing how you completely avoid specific questions about what you took the time to post and then try to pawn it off as if you are just simply "trolling" clueless men. Sure would be nice if all forum members had the intellect to follow up on and or stand behind their own words. :rolleyes:

            -moving on-

            Regardless of the specific correspondence between Lauryn and "Mr. Lewd Email Guy" none of us know the specifics of the email. I don't want to or need to know. What one woman feels is "highly inappropriate" another may find to be completely mild.

            Truthfully, the more I think about it, the whole scenario seems unlikely. Facebook is a global platform and I would like to think a rational human being offering out analytical services for Fan Pages wouldn't have their address available. Perhaps some guys are stupid enough to never even realize the target of their lewdness might be half way around the world but it still just seems unlikely.

            Nonetheless, sexual harassment is a sad reality which some women have to deal with. So, to any female warriors, hopefully you can wade through the BS in this thread and find the tangible advice. Bunch of it in here.

            If there is one simple truth to consider aside from those who wish to just uselessly convey women are not at all at fault, another A$$hole is usually right around the corner once you get done dealing with the first. What you can control, however insignificant it may seem, is worth looking into.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      (unless they are socially incompetent).
      Seems to me that would be a proper description for anyone who would send a suggestive message to a business contact. Really - take a sharp left and you're in Dorkville
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      • Profile picture of the author terrapurus
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Seems to me that would be a proper description for anyone who would send a suggestive message to a business contact. Really - take a sharp left and you're in Dorkville
        That's the point. He did not send the suggestion to a 'business' contact. She evolved that relationship into something more personal.
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        • Profile picture of the author bretski
          There really is a tremendous amount of advice in this thread. Although, I have to wonder how many people actually understand that none of us have much control over how someone act or reacts to us. I do a lot of business outside of IM with vendors and there is nothing out of line with accepting or offering a friend request on FB with a business salesperson.

          The people that I do business with, both male and female, I have a relationship that is anything but "all business". There are times when I ask favors of them when I get in a bind (printer guy that finds me toner when I screw up on ordering, for example) and in return I have talked to leads of his that he has that are on the fence. We are friends... that also goes for the female toner rep that I had that became a very close friend. We talk about our kids, problems that we might be having, what we did on the weekend, cool movies we saw etc... friends, ya know?

          To say that someone led someone on or that they way that they dressed, behaved, the amount of attention they spent, whether they accepted a friend request etc, let to someone writing a perverted email is just stupid. You might as well say that a girl that wears a short skirt and heels had it coming to her if she gets raped. Sorry... someone had to say it.

          When I had my dog grooming shop I got hit on by gay guys all the time. You say "no thanks" and move on. Same thing when I was in culinary school... "no thanks, I like chicks". They apologize and move on and often thank you for not freaking out. This is life and it's not a big deal folks.
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          • Profile picture of the author Cali16
            Originally Posted by bretski View Post

            To say that someone led someone on or that they way that they dressed, behaved, the amount of attention they spent, whether they accepted a friend request etc, let to someone writing a perverted email is just stupid. You might as well say that a girl that wears a short skirt and heels had it coming to her if she gets raped. Sorry... someone had to say it.
            With all due respect, there is a huge difference between saying that someone's actions (e.g. dress, behavior, etc.) could have inadvertently given the wrong impression and saying someone "had it coming" because of those actions. I don't think that's what most people meant by their feedback, myself included, and to call us all "stupid" is a bit over the top, don't you think?

            We are all responsible for our own behavior. That being said, of course we can't control the actions and responses of others, but we can at least reduce the likeliness of problems occurring.
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            • Profile picture of the author bretski
              Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

              With all due respect, there is a huge difference between saying that someone's actions (e.g. dress, behavior, etc.) could have inadvertently given the wrong impression and saying someone "had it coming" because of those actions. I don't think that's what most people meant by their feedback, myself included, and to call us all "stupid" is a bit over the top, don't you think?

              We are all responsible for our own behavior. That being said, of course we can't control the actions and responses of others, but we can at least reduce the likeliness of problems occurring.
              There have been numerous posts throughout this thread telling the OP that she MUST have done something to lead the client on and suggesting that she should change her avatar and even infering that she did "something" to bring about the clients advances. There is no counting for how people are going to act.

              Sorry, I don't feel that my comment was over the top and I wasn't calling anyone "stupid". Like I tell my kids all the time, "I always love you but I don't always love the things you do". I wasn't calling anyone stupid, I was calling the presumption stupid.

              I was calling the presumption that the OP did something to cause the creepy client to write an inappropriate email stupid. I'm sure it wasn't something like "I'm interested in getting to know you better. Do you have a boyfriend or husband" or "would you be interested in dinner and a movie?" If you were offended then I am sorry but it is an all too familiar stance that many people take in and even more so outside of business relationships.
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              • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
                Originally Posted by bretski View Post

                I was calling the presumption that the OP did something to cause the creepy client to write an inappropriate email stupid.
                You're right as long as the presumption was actually off target. No way to know really. There were also many posts here that taken in the correct context were only meant to convey to the OP it is possible to lessen unwanted attention.

                Mine in-particular was taken partly from a recent conversation I had with my 14 yr old daughter about how much a young woman needs to be aware of how she might be perceived. Of course, I took much more liberty writing here then I did with her. Nothing stupid about that.

                Perception and assumption are consistent parts of our daily lives. However unfortunate it is that women must deal with much more negativity and presumption then men, it is still reality. Sadly, this entire thread is testament to just how diverse and complicated people's opinions are.

                Maybe the OP could benefit from being more aware of how she might be perceived by male clients. Maybe not. Maybe another female might ponder how all the unwanted attention she keeps dealing with in her work just might be directly related to how she dresses, carries herself, communicates, etc etc. Either way, it isn't stupid to have contrasting views of society. It's perception, presumptions and stupidity are what we all must deal with daily.

                I know one thing, it is pretty useless to offer no advice or opinion and simply say "You did nothing wrong", all that will accomplish is the possibility of the OP walking into another bees nest with no ability to deal with it. Simply stating something is wrong or unfair won't prevent it from happening again nor will it provide any solution. Not like more men will begin using their brains and being more considerate and respectful just because you identify something one man did sucks.

                Gaining complete control over how a person is perceived by others is not entirely possible. No one has more control over it though, then that particular person.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    I would suggest that you replace this client with another one. Life is too short to put up with jerks. And people that send inappropriate messages to people they barely know are jerks, no doubt about it.
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    • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
      lol @ half of this thread. Have to admit there is plenty of entertainment on this forum. Some of you ppl's are out of your minds.

      Unfortunately we all (men and women) have to deal with gender specific obstacles at some point or another. This scenario, thankfully, doesn't sound nearly as serious as some of the stories that are out there. If you are going to be a consultant, first thing you need is a real thick layer of protection over your feelings. Don't get hung up on how much time you put into a deal that falls through and don't put yourself out there in a way you aren't prepared to deal with. Be careful, be prepared and most of all be aware of yourself.

      Lots of service provider/client relationships are fragile and the key to being a savvy consultant IMO is to roll with the punches and know how to smooth out the wrinkles. Perhaps a friendly "Thank you I'm flattered but not interested" would suffice?

      Too many women use low cut shirts and hiked up skirts to get attention and sadly it makes them money. Sure, use your real picture on Facebook but be sure to dress professionally. Cleavage is totally unnecessary right? What is the purpose of a collar which dips low enough to show cleavage? An advertisement? Ventilation? Seriously...is it just a style? How many years ago was it that if a woman's ankle was showing it was considered socially unacceptable? Her ANKLE!!!

      My only point about cleavage is just that there are too many women who are completely unaware of the way they are perceived and why. Yes a man needs to also be aware of what is appropriate, believe me you don't even want me to get started on how many ignorant fools out there are driven by their genitals. I just saw little in this thread about the subtle ways women provoke unwanted attention and only want it to be to their own gain without repercussion. The world simply doesn't work that way. Flirting happens, stalking happens and in probably 95% of the cases it is because men tend to be imbeciles about being horny idiots. It is also valid though to, as a businesswoman, consider your image and it's perception.

      It's just like how the great Dave Chapelle said in a stand up comedy routine. He went to a club and saw a woman who, to say the least, was showing a whole lot of skin. He admits he got overly excited by what he saw and made a comment to which she replied "Just because I am dressed this way, does not make me a whore!" ...lol bear with me here...

      Then he goes on to explain, would if he (Dave Chapelle the comedian) went walking around the streets wearing a cop uniform. Someone might run up on him. "Officer, thank god. Please, help us!" To which he replies "Ohhh, just because Im dressed this way does NOT make me a police officer!"

      So yes, just because a woman dresses a certain way does not mean they are a certain way but if your going to wear the uniform....

      To the OP, I have no idea what pics you have on Facebook or anything at all about you other then the silly avatar picture you have here. You already show obvious negligence for how you or what you associate with yourself might get perceived so I doubt what I have had to say will be heard as positive. Hopefully someone else might get it though, nice thread I enjoyed reading this one.
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      • Originally Posted by NicheMayhem View Post

        Perhaps a friendly "Thank you I'm flattered but not interested" would suffice?
        I totally agree. The word "Sexual harassment" is thrown around way too fast and way too loose. A firm "Thanks, but no thanks" will suffice in 99% of the cases. Give it a try, it works like a charm... :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Benjamin Ehinger
    Originally Posted by Lauryn View Post

    Bringing this topic up kinda makes me a little

    Anyway, I've been doing offline consulting and providing other services for a while and recently began to use social media for networking. Potential clients have come to me with an interest in learning more about the services provided, and just when they've been talking enough business, they begin to switch gears and blend in subtle flirtations. I know not to take those serious and they don't pan out anyway.

    However, I was going back and forth with one for a few weeks. All serious business. I'm waiting for the contract, and I like his FB fan page for the business (so I can analyze it). He sends a friend request, which I accept, only to send a highly inappropriate message, and then halts all contact when I'm non-responsive on FB but press on as if nothing happened in the emails.

    I'm sure other women have had to deal with this. And I'm sure a few men will say they've had to as well.

    What gives? What to do? How do you handle this and separate the serious from the time-wasting?

    Personally, I would not work with someone like this. If they cannot be professional, then I would not want them as my client. What happens when you finish this job and he needs another job done? More harassment?

    I would simply move on to another client.

    Benjamin Ehinger
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  • Profile picture of the author tolxeaquarius
    Well I would feel extremely uncomfortable and annoyed. This Is the reasons that i don't want to work offline. I don't like that kind of attention. When it is business then I wanted to be taken seriously. Before I was working online I worked in a cookie factory, my boss back then he touched everyone. And he alway came near me. I extremely hated it, him coming around and making stupid comments that I smell like cheese and stuff. Everybody was afraid of him. Whenever you would make a mistake, my old boss would come and throw with cookies to that person or other stuff too. No one would say anything because everybody feared that they would lose their jobs. He approached every women in that factory and he harassed everyone. Touching making stupid jokes and flirting. And if you didn't like his jokes or you would make him look stupid then he would get angry.

    Pff thank God that I don't have to live trough those days.


    This is mostly because of this event that I don't want to work offline ever. I do have clients but I ask for organizations to contact me through email or phone.
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  • Profile picture of the author jacksonlin
    I say work this to your advantage and make him one of your minions! =P
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    • Profile picture of the author Suthan M
      Originally Posted by jacksonlin View Post

      I say work this to your advantage and make him one of your minions! =P
      Megan Fox, is that you?
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  • Profile picture of the author debbiechamilton
    This can happen to either gender. I think the internet adds a safe feeling that one can say things not said in person. Also, there are alot of lonely people out there and when you post a message it can be construed differently by them. It is a little difficult to get the feel of messages that are typed as opposed to talking in person. Once again, if you are portraying suggestive things on your site, what's a guy to think. I have been schooled it takes very little for a guy to think in that direction to begin with.
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  • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    @nichemayhem

    The plain fact is that she did nothing wrong. She is in no way responsible for anyone's preconceived notions, perceptions or stupidity.

    Catering to such lessens her humanity.

    I think, though, that you are saying a woman should be prepared for such, and sadly, you are right.

    That's no reason to accept it, or to expect her to internalize that it's somehow her fault.
    Well listen, to begin a discussion on why one should not view another person's actions as a fault of their own is a whole other 130 post thread. No way anyone needs to feel personally responsible for another's bad behavior unless they are the parent of the offender.

    All that I wish to communicate is my view on avoiding another situation because I truly feel it can be better prevented so long as proper awareness exists.

    Many people in here mention that a lot of women use sexual prowess as a tool in their arsenal for sales. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that directly, do what you can with what you got. After all, it's your conscience that dictates what success is worth.

    Also though, it is relevant to point out how there are many professional women who take great care in choosing a specific look for themselves because they wish to be taken seriously at the workplace and advance based on their ability and performance. Little things tend to make a big difference at times and I think this is one subject where a small effort can go a long way.

    There is no doubt that inconsiderate pea brained men tend to be easily influenced. It is no different then wearing your seat belt, you share the road with others and you never know if they are actually in control of themselves or their vehicle. Preventative measures my friends, preventative measures.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Oh yeah, I am always having to deal with this type of behavior. Just look at my perfectly sculpted cranium, blue eyes, and pretty face.

      I even have some people (cough, Richard Van) wanting to lick my head!

      I don't blame them but, like you, I want to remain professional in all my interactions on this forum.

      Basically, you will have certain customers that want to control the majority of your time. Regardless if they want coaching, support, or a date, you will have to decide whether your time is better serving others and cutting ties.

      You are in control. It is your business and you decide what behavior is tolerated.

      As for me, I started charging people wanting to lick my head. Sure, it can be seen as partial prostitution but it makes for a great upsell.
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    I think it would be a good idea to halt all communication from both the emails and Facebook until they get the hint
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