Beware of Amazon!!!

by 47 replies
63
I've always thought Amazon was pretty cool for affiliates and I've never head any negative things about them...until now.

I went to Arizona recently and decided I would use my cousins address for my Amazon account since I was not alowed to be an affiliate in Cali.

This was about 3 or 4 weeks ago. Yesterday I got this email:

"We are writing in reference to the documentation you recently submitted as proof of residency. We have reviewed your submission and determined that it is insufficient to establish your residency. As a result, your Associates account has been closed and any accrued advertising fees have been withheld.

If you have additional documentation to support your residency at your stated address, please email the information to associates-documents-us@amazon.com and include your store id and email address in your email and on all the pages submitted. Again, this documentation will be used for no other purpose than to verify your residency at your stated address.

If you can’t email the appropriate documentation for submission, please mail your submission to the following address and include your store id and email address:

Amazon.com
Attn: Associates Address Verification (SEA20.03.325.H5)
P.O. Box 81226
Seattle, WA 98108

Once this documentation is received, your Associates account will be reviewed for reinstatement and you will receive notification regarding the outcome by email. Please note, any fees accrued while your account was active will not be reinstated.
 (emphasis mine)

They're telling me that they're going to keep every single penny of the money I made just because they couldn't verify my address! And even if I submitted the proper verification documents they're still going to keep it!!!

How f**ked up is that? Talk about being rapped with no vasaline, that is so cold blooded I can hardly believe it.

How can they do something like that just because of a simple address verification?

Luckily it was only $105. If it was a substantial amount I'd would have been on the phone with a lawyer instantly.

Watch out when changing your address with Amazon!!
#main internet marketing discussion forum #amazon #beware
  • First, I am sorry you lost some money.

    I am not a fan of Amazon for many reason, however, I love to be fair, you did violate their policy.

    Amazon do collect information by many ways and not only email / account. They do collect from cookies, ip address, ... etc

    If they get what proof in their database a manipulation, they would cut the program down.

    Maybe taking that money was according to their TOS. I would suggest to look at it.
  • So are you saying it's Amazon's fault that you got caught? Just wanted to make sure I'm understanding your post. My apologies if I did misunderstand.

    All the best,
    Michael
    • [ 11 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • Ok, I am going to assume that Cali refers to California. Am I right about that?

      Also, why could you not be an affiliate there?

      Something doesn't sound right about this.




      Erik
      • [1] reply
    • Sorry, but I agree with Michael here. You violated their policy, IMO.
  • I think a better title for this thread would have been:

    "Damn! I got caught breaking Amazon's TOS"
    • [ 8 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Couldnt agree more. Sorry the OP lost money but live and learn I guess.
  • My sentiment about this mirrors those above me.

    Amazon has to watch out for itself. It could face legal ramifications if there are affiliates trying to skirt the rules.
    • [1] reply
    • I don't think you have anything to gripe about in this case.

      Amazon is protecting itself legally by suspending your account and lets face it you are excluded from the Associates program since you live in CA which is an Amazon excluded state.

      You attempted to fool them by trying to say you live where you do not and that is clearly against there TOS and they rightly terminated you when they caught you.

      Just because you use a mailing address in another state does not prove you are a resident they will most likely want a utility bill in your name at the new address or some other solid proof you have indeed moved to that state.

      I feel for you but really its not something to bash Amazon about, you broke their TOS and they did what you knew they would do if you got caught.

      Kickin it on Amazon

      Gaz Cooper
      Amz Training Academy
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
  • I think this is your problem.

    Of course they are going to monitor where you are once they enforce rules.

    You broke the rules or tried to "work around" them and got found out...

    It is crappy that you got your money withheld and maybe if you play ignorant they will reinstate you.

    I suggest you get in touch with them and try and work something out.

    However saying "Beware of Amazon!!!" is a bit like me saying "Beware of Speed Cameras" and then doing 60mph in a 30 zone and thinking I would get away with it because it is not my car.

    Hope you get it sorted.

    Chris Jones
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • But if YOU broke their rules, then you don't deserve to keep the money you made fraudulently. That's what the others are saying.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Did you not do any background research into it before hand? With me been from England I know that Amazon is accepted. However America is a different ball-game if your advertising their products in a banned state even though a small percentage of your buyers would be interested from California its still breaking the TOS. Its a shame its that case but before putting Amazon links on you should of known it was banned in the state of your residency.
  • Thanks for warning everybody. So people have to make the same mistakes.
    I am sorry you losed your money
  • According to the first post it would appear that you were still actually resident in California and were trying to bend the rules.

    What is worrying here is if there was a legitimate case of someone actually moving and if there was a delay or a misunderstanding of what documentation is required to prove residency. If that were the case, I feel it would be unfair of Amazon to not pay out once the documentation was submitted satisfactorily and the matter resolved.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • I ask Myself this Question now: However I have an Amazon account that I created in The Netherlands although I have never promoted any projects yet. This is simply because I was more focused on my Dutch markets then my English based ones. However, If I would start to promote Amazon products will they Ban me or would they allow me to earn some cash. I know that not American Situated citizens can create themselves American Banking accounts with wire transfer etc. I really would like to promote some physical stuff in the US and so. Has anyone any advice?
    I haven´t set up my banking accounts yet in my Amazon account.
    • [1] reply

    • You wont get banned and you can start promoting Amazon products anytime you wish and you will be paid by check in NL which you can just deposit in your Dutch bank.

      Just make sure you have a US Amazon Associates account

      Kickin it on Amazon

      Gaz Cooper
      Amz Training Academy
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • Banned

    Seriously ... you attempted to commit fraud and they outed you and now you're whining about how f**ked up Amazon is?
    • [ 4 ] Thanks
  • Two things amaze me about this thread: the sheer stupidity of the OP, and the number of "oh, you poor thing, that's soooooo sad" posts in support.

    The OP knew about the situation for Amazon affiliates in California, tried to get around it by using a false address, and is whining now about the ill-gotten gains being withheld. It's like cheating in a card game and expecting to keep your "winnings".

    And you people who are sympathetic and think this person was somehow wronged by getting caught breaking the rules,

    Never mind.
    • [ 3 ] Thanks
    • [3] replies
    • The last time I moved, I had proof in hand before the actual physical move. I had (in this case) mortgage papers with my new address, although a lease or deposit receipt probably would have worked. I had a new phone number, with documentation showing the billing address.

      I also knew I was going to move in advance, and took steps to make the required change of address where needed.

      As for the OP:

      Judge: "Young lady, why did you wait so long to report that you'd been raped?"

      YL: "Your honor, I didn't know I'd been raped until the check bounced..."
      • [ 7 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
    • People are being wronged when they are denied the opportunity to participate as an affiliate with one of the most successful retailers on the internet because they live in a certain state. (and their state legislature members should be made to pay with their jobs).
      Yes they can move or find another retailer as successful as Amazon...oh wait there aren't any.
      • [1] reply
    • Rants like this are used to vent and gain sympathy - but it comes down to:

      1. the laws don't apply to me
      2. I'm willing to cheat the tax man
      3. I'll lie to get what I want
      4. I agreed to TOS - but it should not apply to me
      5. If I get caught, there should be no consequences

      All for $105? Interesting.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • For those twisted in the claws of Amazon TOS, it might be worth considering things from Colleens perspective: (not an affiliate link)



    Hope this helps

    TW
    • [1] reply
    • The crazy thing is there is an agreement that changed this entire scenario. Cali affiliates can keep selling with Amazon - at least for now.

      Have to wonder, though, how many affiliates lost their Amazon accounts permanently due to lying about residence. The agreement came too late for them.

      kay
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • Kay -- I believe there is a lawsuit about the legality of the tax, so until Cali can prove that tax is legal, they can't order any actions on it.

    This situation goes beyond TOS - it's laws that are being tampered with.

    And yes it completely sucks that CA imposed such taxes - but, if I recall rightly, there were somewhere near 100,000 Amazon affiliates in that state and I never heard of any petitions for recall or impeachment of any representatives for putting through psuedo-legal taxation laws. Nobody out there seemed to care enough about the laws to try to stop them - but still want to find ways to become Amazon affiliates while living there.

    The fact is that Amazon warned and warned that this law was pending - where was the outcry then? Do you really think Amazon wanted to lose California? They never saw any public campaign against that law. I believe they are the ones with the lawsuit against CA - I don't think it was citizens that put it through - if so, I am thrilled to see them finally stand up to their legislators.

    So you are angry they kept the money you earned illegally - money that they have to answer stiff questions and consequences for if they give you when basically the whole state told them to kiss off?

    Now - consider other Affiliate programs - lets say CJ or Share-a-Sale. Do you remember that you have to fax or mail them certain documents BEFORE they can pay you? You aren't actually a legal affiliate until you have put through any required documents. They will hold your money until you do. In the case of Amazon and NC and CA - you aren't a legal affiliate until you prove that you live where they can legally accept you - and it falls on you to know that one (obviously you did). Now lets see if you can figure out the cost to Amazon if they get caught paying California residents, figure in fines for breaking laws (which could actually go to jail time if caught), records investigations, court costs, jeopardy to business licenses.

    Yeah they are real jerks for not dealing with what can now be known as criminals. You like that tag silverbean? Learn to - you're wearing it.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • There are a couple hundred Amazon affiliates that I know of including myself living in California who saw this coming years ago and took legal steps such as incorporating in other states. This has been discussed ad nauseum in numerous threads, including warnings against taking such silly actions as what the OP has done. Amazon and all of the nexus states are on to these schemes. :rolleyes:
  • I don't even think this is about violating their TOS. They never once said I violated their terms of service. They simply said that they could not verify my address. I'm pretty sure if I violated the TOS then they would have said so.

    Hell, they never even asked me to verify my address until now. If they're telling me their keeping my money because I violated their TOS then ok, I get it. But because they could'nt verify my address? Please.


    And another thing, I never made one sale after I changed the address. All the money was prior to that.
    • [2] replies
    • Banned
      You still don't get it. They're complying with CA law as it was at the time. You're trying to skirt CA law as it was at the time. If you earned that money after the law was implemented, they would have had to collect taxes on it by law. Then when you tried your bogus address change, you set yourself up for a suspension with no payment.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • Before the CA law was enacted, it didn't matter. When you changed your address, conveniently timed to when the law went into effect, they asked for proof that you did in fact move.

      Without that proof, they have to act as if your original (CA) address is correct, and that means you weren't eligible for the program in the first place. Without proof of eligibility, they had no basis for paying you, so they didn't.

      Contrary to what the phantom known as 'nm241' says, Amazon is not stupid. They knew that some of their affiliates would try to pull stuff like you did. So they asked you to ante up, and when you couldn't, they broomed you out of the game.

      Live and, hopefully, learn...
  • So I started to read this thread and, as usual, the debate rages. So I did a little research and found these two articles:

    internetretailer[dot]com/commentary/2011/09/16/sales-tax-showdown-put

    And

    arounddublinblog[dot]com/2011/09/dublin-ca-amazon-sales-tax-deal-may-ring-up-more-school-funding-cuts/



    I had to butcher these a bit because I still can't have links in my posts but I'm sure you guys can figure out what I did!!


    Also, I went onto Amazon.com to look at their "Conditions of Use" area and, unless I'm going blind, (quite possible, been researching lots of things the past couple of days) I didn't see a damn thing about changing addresses. I also went looking for anything relating to this LAW on their site. Again, nothing. Nothing in their press releases or anything.

    Now both the links (not mine,of course) above basically says that this LAW was never even put into effect because of Amazon.com fighting with the State of California. Nothing new there. The State of California has been fighting with everyone for years because there politicians are idiots. (No offense to California Residents!!) I left California In 1995 and moved to Arizona (not much better and getting worse).

    I will not take sides on this particular issue. Been doing research on other aspects of Internet Marketing the past few days and, quite frankly, I'm scared.

    Anyway, I hope this will enlighten people a little more on this issue. Sure opened my eyes.

    Which reminds me. I need more Mountain Dew!!!




    Erik
    • [1] reply
    • Hi, Erik - I'm also in Arizona and I would suggest you not be scared (maybe that was the lack of Mt. Dew talking...) but certainly be informed. Sounds like you're doing that.

      Those articles you reference don't change anything regarding the OP's actions. Amazon terminated CA affiliates. Regardless of the wild path that law has taken, it doesn't erase Amazon's move to terminate the associate program in CA and to my knowledge, they haven't turned the CA program back on.

      The OP attempted to get around the Amazon restriction and it backfired. Amazon's TOS does say you must comply with any requests for information regarding your compliance with their Operating Agreement not to mention whatever language may have been included in the CA termination notice.
      • [1] reply
  • This thread reminds me of those, "network XYZ sucks they didnt' pay me" type threads where the person complaining was running bluefart programs and paying outsourcers to fill in email submits. (All 100% fraudulent btw).

  • That's right. Amazon is protecting it's legitimate business interests when it
    makes a decision to terminate affiliates in a given state, because of the actions
    taken by that state.

    And likewise amazon is just enforcing it's TOS with respect to information verification
    of a residency claim, that in the case of the OP was a fraudulent attempt to evade.
    Live and learn as they say.
  • Did you get caught braking the terms of agreement?
  • LOL. Better call Saul! (Breaking Bad reference)
  • Well ... Maybe you should have "been on the phone with a lawyer" BEFORE you tried to get around Amazon's TOS. A good one would have warned you about any possible consequences that could happen by doing this the wrong way.

    Nobody has a complete handle on all these "nexus tax" laws.

    I just wish this issue could be "fast-tracked" to the SCOTUS to get a final verdict on the legality of these new nexus tax laws sprouting like weeds right now.

    Affiliate marketing is changing like everything else online and the smart ones that are able to deal with these changes will do well. Those that don't (or won't), well ...


    Rick Wilson aka CorpRebel
    • [1] reply
  • Don't blame Amazon. Blame the Politicians in the State of California... they are the money grubbers.

    Amazon has to protect their company legally.
  • Have to pick at this one...

    The California law and its fallout may have been beyond an individual's control, but it wasn't out of the blue, either.

    Attempting fraud through a bogus address change was completely within the OP's control.

    Speaking of the OP, has anyone seen our buddy silverbean since the tide went so decidedly against him?
  • Amazon's affiliate program sucks, I've always wondered how people make money with it.

    I've had WAY better success with every other affiliate program I've tried, bar none.
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  • 63

    Beware of Amazon!!!

    I've always thought Amazon was pretty cool for affiliates and I've never head any negative things about them...until now. I went to Arizona recently and decided I would use my cousins address for my Amazon account since I was not alowed to be an affiliate in Cali.