Just got this email: [INVOICE #095] PAYMENT OWED: $1,997!

100 replies
Checking my email this morning I see the subject of:
[INVOICE #095] PAYMENT OWED: $1,997

I'm thinking..."I don't remember making a purchase for that amount..and no outsourced work for that amount, what could this be?".

I open it up to see these first few lines of the body:

"Don’t worry, I haven’t really sent you an invoice!

*BUT* I wanted to tell you that I usually charge
$1,997 for 1hr of personal coaching and I am
typically booked up fully every month."



Really?? Come on now... I'm usually very lenient with the emails I receive from marketers...I understand they are marketing after all, and that's usually okay.
But this email goes WAY OVER THE LINE, in my opinion. I'd NEVER send something like this out, and it really pisses me off that someone else did.

Warrior Thoughts? Do you find this kind of marketing acceptable (a clever ploy to get an email opened), or unacceptable (over the line)?
##095 #997 #email #invoice #owed #payment
  • Profile picture of the author codenaam
    Another "marketer" who doesn't understand marketing...
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    • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
      This is exactly why I use MailWasher Pro. (no affiliate link). With it, I can scan through all the headers of incoming emails while they are still on the server. Anything with crap headers such as that, or informing me that I've just won $4M on the Swedish lottery get deleted, and only genuine emails are left to actually download.
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      • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by AnniePot View Post

        This is exactly why I use MailWasher Pro. (no affiliate link). With it, I can scan through all the headers of incoming emails while they are still on the server.
        So let's see if I've got this correct.
        You pay for a service which allows you to delete mail from the server,
        rather than downloading it and deleting it for free.
        Am I missing something here?
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        • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
          Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

          So let's see if I've got this correct.
          You pay for a service which allows you to delete mail from the server,
          rather than downloading it and deleting it for free.
          Am I missing something here?
          Haven't you heard about the virus's etc. that can be downloaded embedded in or attached to spam emails? I'm much happier deleting this type of email at the source rather than run the risk of actually downloading it into my computer, then finding out too late it brought something rather nasty with it. :rolleyes:

          I know many savvy people who have downloaded emails indiscriminately, only to discover too late their computer has become infected with an attachment. And yes, they do have good anti-spam and anti-virus systems on their computers.

          BTW, when I first bought Mailwasher years ago, it was just a few $$. I consider it to be excellent value, even at today's price.
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    • Profile picture of the author Manuelcrc
      Originally Posted by codenaam View Post

      Another "marketer" who doesn't understand marketing...
      That's just it, not everyone that claims to be a marketer is actually one. I love this reply.
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    • Profile picture of the author tamimabraham
      Originally Posted by codenaam View Post

      Another "marketer" who doesn't understand marketing...
      Yes! It is! He don't know about marketing!
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  • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
    Nothing new here, I think. The onslaught of emails with such subject-lines (combined with a complete lack of any real substance/value in the emails themselves) is one of the main reasons I unsubscribed en masse from marketers' lists in the IM/MMO niches (where this stuff seems most prevalent) several months ago.

    The main reason I was on them to begin with wasn't so much as an interested consumer of IM-related products, but because I thought I could learn a thing or two from these people - some of them "big name gurus", of course.

    Turns out the only thing I could learn is what not to do, and that was pretty much already ingrained in the form of common sense. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

    Thoughts?
    Unsubscribe comes to mind
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      Echo the above.

      That's a spam title at it's very worst.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

      Some people are just too damn clever for their own good.

      Unsubscribe/Delete
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    • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Unsubscribe comes to mind
      LOL, ya I did that.

      I meant thoughts along the lines of, "I'm okay with that type of marketing", or "no, it's unacceptable".
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  • Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

    But this email goes WAY OVER THE LINE, in my opinion. I'd NEVER send something like this out, and it really pisses me off that someone else did.

    Thoughts?
    Thought: Delete it and get on with life.

    Don't let the small things get to you.

    Why be pissed off about an email like that? If you don't want to read it, unsubscribe and delete the email, and move on to the next thing.

    Think of how much MORE time and energy that crappy email has wasted now that you took the time to post it here, waste all of our time reading it, and replying to this thread.

    Now instead of just wasting the time and energy it would take you to hit 'delete' it has also wasted mine! Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
      Originally Posted by ExploringInfinity View Post

      Thought: Delete it and get on with life.

      Don't let the small things get to you.

      Why be pissed off about an email like that? If you don't want to read it, unsubscribe and delete the email, and move on to the next thing.
      It did piss me off, but don't get me wrong, I'm not going to sit around all day thinking about it.

      The person who sent me that email I won't name...but I believe they are a Warrior member. The point of my post was to see what others thought about that type of marketing. And, so far the consensus seems to be that everyone is against it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
    My instant reaction?

    You lied about what the email was about, so you're probably lying about the amount you charge for 1hr of coaching.

    Furthermore, if this is what you teach, why would I want to be coached by you?

    So many holes in this it's unbelievable!

    Un. Sub. Scribe.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      Actually, it's a good lesson for newbies - under CAN-SPAM, that's considered a misleading headline and whether the OP is opted in or not, it's spam.
      Yup! Well Said!!

      Not to mention this is pretty unethical and it would be the last email I got from that marketer...

      But hey - why tell them that? Leaves less competition, right?
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  • Profile picture of the author Brandon Bell
    Looks like SPAM to me. Marketers who send out emails like this rather trick people into buying services than present them with honest arguments. Simply, unsubscribe and delete it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    It did get you to look at the email though so they should get a few points for that. Before you delete it, what can we learn by this? Not condoning the practice or even saying there is something to learn but it is interesting that they stopped you in your tracks.
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    • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
      Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

      It did get you to look at the email though so they should get a few points for that. Before you delete it, what can we learn by this? Not condoning the practice or even saying there is something to learn but it is interesting that they stopped you in your tracks.
      You are correct in that it got me to open the email.

      However, after opening I'm left with a completely negative impression of the sender. Getting me to open the email, and leaving me with a positive impression of the sender...that's what I want to see.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
        Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

        You are correct in that it got me to open the email.

        However, after opening I'm left with a completely negative impression of the sender. Getting me to open the email, and leaving me with a positive impression of the sender...that's what I want to see.
        I agree 100% - epic failure but is there anything we can take away from this? It's just so freaking hard to get people to look at an email that when an alien like this appears we may as well perform an autopsy to see what we can learn.

        Even if there is nothing to learn from this particular email it reinforces that the only way to treat a list is to treat them like humans you respect. Today I bought an interesting WSO that dealt with 100% open rates on emails and it opened my eyes to some new possibilities that I had not considered. Before we throw this bath water out better make sure there's no baby in there.

        I just think it's an awesome achievement to get us to stop at any email subject line. Though I'm sure making people angry is not going to help make anyone money it is interesting that you stopped and even that we're discussing it.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

          So let's see if I've got this correct.
          You pay for a service which allows you to delete mail from the server,
          rather than downloading it and deleting it for free.
          Am I missing something here?
          Mailwasher made a lot more sense back when access was dial-up and modems were very slow. A lot of access providers charged by the hour, so avoiding a 30-60 minute file dwnload from a spammer saved money.

          So it made sense to do as much 'mail washing' on the server as possible, to lower the number of hours spent connected and only download the email you wanted.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
            I would unsubscribe.

            But I would also have thought about sending an email back that said "Hospital Expense Bill - 10,000 "

            And then explain how this economy is bad enough and you don't need a freaking heart attack in your email of a bill you don't owe for.
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            • Profile picture of the author sonic74
              ha ha, I got exactly an email with the same headline today !

              Initially I have ignored it, but I opened up when I read this thread !

              "Don't worry, I haven't really sent you an invoice!

              *BUT* I wanted to tell you that I usually charge
              $1,997 for 1hr of personal coaching and I am
              typically booked up fully every month.

              LUCKILY for you, I've personally selected you
              and will give you a private & no cost Live Webinar
              Training.....
              "
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              • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                Originally Posted by sonic74 View Post

                LUCKILY for you, I've personally selected you
                and will give you a private & no cost Live Webinar
                Training.....[/B]"
                Ok, here is something interesting.

                Does this change the story for anyone here? Seeing that it is a no charge event anyway?

                That third line just changed my impression. I'm still peeved, but maybe not as upset as when I saw only the first 2 bits.
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                • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
                  Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                  Ok, here is something interesting.

                  Does this change the story for anyone here? Seeing that it is a no charge event anyway?

                  That third line just changed my impression. I'm still peeved, but maybe not as upset as when I saw only the first 2 bits.
                  I didn't include the rest of the email, because whatever it contained was of so low importance to me...I mean, I was already deceived, so no way would I be in the least bit interested in their free webinar which is probably just an attempt to sell a high dollar item, with no real value in the webinar itself.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nail Yener
      Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

      It did get you to look at the email though so they should get a few points for that.
      I don't think they deserve any points for that. You can make even the most resistant person open your emails every day of the week by using deceptive subject lines. But it will not help your business at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author LarryC
      Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

      It did get you to look at the email though so they should get a few points for that. Before you delete it, what can we learn by this? Not condoning the practice or even saying there is something to learn but it is interesting that they stopped you in your tracks.
      True, but the question is, how well does it convert? Getting people to open an email isn't very helpful if half of them unsubscribe from your list afterwards.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    Great reminder that I need to 'filter' my accounts today!!

    For the past few months I have remained on several "Guru" MMO lists just for research purposes, and to find the correlation between these guys 'pushing junk' and those who actually provide immeasurable value.

    Also, be it rare, but I have been getting a few random emails with similar crap...with no unsubscribe links, or any recall of permitting the sender(s) to spam me!

    Part of me wants to stay subscribed, and just 'skip the inbox' and archive all the crap, hoping one day they'll actually look at their stats and see that after sending me 1000+ junk emails....NONE were ever actually opened.

    PS- I had a similar issue with approving a warrior on Skype...sent me 1 email for services, and I thought, that's ok. Then this person started sending the same info under several user names...I educated him...politely of course
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    • Profile picture of the author eb0425
      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      Great reminder that I need to 'filter' my accounts today!!

      For the past few months I have remained on several "Guru" MMO lists just for research purposes, and to find the correlation between these guys 'pushing junk' and those who actually provide immeasurable value.

      Also, be it rare, but I have been getting a few random emails with similar crap...with no unsubscribe links, or any recall of permitting the sender(s) to spam me!

      Part of me wants to stay subscribed, and just 'skip the inbox' and archive all the crap, hoping one day they'll actually look at their stats and see that after sending me 1000+ junk emails....NONE were ever actually opened.

      PS- I had a similar issue with approving a warrior on Skype...sent me 1 email for services, and I thought, that's ok. Then this person started sending the same info under several user names...I educated him...politely of course


      I bet you did!!!




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  • Profile picture of the author Nail Yener
    Can-Spam Act requirement 2 compliance failure.

    I am typically booked up fully every month.
    So, how can you find the time to send this garbage?
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  • Profile picture of the author funkynassau
    I find this sort of marketing to be all kinds of wrong. I'd never do that. I also would never hire this a**hole to do anything for me if that's how he conducts himself. All he does is irritate people.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    Ok fair enough. Maybe "points" was the wrong term to use. "Interesting". It was interesting that you stopped. Even deceptive subject lines can be spotted a fair way off. If there's nothing to see here that's fine.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    Originally Posted by precious007 View Post

    ...I'm not sure who would pay that kind of money after all)
    [OT]I'd pay it for a result but for one hour? Not sure. I'd have to be very convinced I'd make more than $2k with the information. I paid Kern $2k but I used his info to make 50 times my money back within a month. It would have to be Tony Robbins himself to be worth 2k per hour and I think Robbo is much more than that actually! People will pay for coaching if it works and makes them more than it costs - that's just smart -[/OT] but to tout $2k per hour with a crappy email like that does not ring true but I digress...
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  • Profile picture of the author Benjamin Ehinger
    Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

    Checking my email this morning I see the subject of:
    [INVOICE #095] PAYMENT OWED: $1,997

    I'm thinking..."I don't remember making a purchase for that amount..and no outsourced work for that amount, what could this be?".

    I open it up to see these first few lines of the body:

    "Don't worry, I haven't really sent you an invoice!

    *BUT* I wanted to tell you that I usually charge
    $1,997 for 1hr of personal coaching and I am
    typically booked up fully every month."



    Really?? Come on now... I'm usually very lenient with the emails I receive from marketers...I understand they are marketing after all, and that's usually okay.
    But this email goes WAY OVER THE LINE, in my opinion. I'd NEVER send something like this out, and it really pisses me off that someone else did.

    Warrior Thoughts? Do you find this kind of marketing acceptable (a clever ploy to get an email opened), or unacceptable (over the line)?
    Nope I would send this to the junk folder without even opening it. I hate marketing like this, but it obviously works for something considering we are discussing it.

    Benjamin Ehinger
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  • Profile picture of the author LarryC
    I never like fake subject lines in emails, but that's one of the worst I've heard of. I can't imagine anyone reacting positively to that. You feel on the defensive right away, like someone is trying to rip you off. On the other hand, I don't appreciate the "You earned an affiliate commission' type subject lines either. I don't even bother to open those anymore.
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    It's pure spam. The unsubscribe links don't work, the subject line is misleading, the address in the email body is non-existent.

    The domain in the emails that I received is 'hostazar.com' owned by our wonderful friend Rob Benwell, of 'Blogging to the Bank' fame.
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  • Profile picture of the author jskarthik1
    WOW!!! Man!!! the guy who sent you is really creative.
    He should have received lots of email opens!!

    Although it seems spammy!!:-|
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  • Profile picture of the author Hackbridge
    I've gotten this email as well, but I didn't open it

    The ones I really hate are when they say "Brian, I'm surprised at you. I sent you BLAH, BLAH, BLAH) I really despise those types.

    There are a few more headlines I hate. Gonna un.sub.scribe. This post has gotten me peeve as well at the amount of rubbish I'm getting, and no matter who it comes from it's Adios! from Me!

    Brian
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Hit the reply button and tell them you charge $1997 to open emails if you think the subject line is misleading.

      And remind them that you actually opened the email so the charge is due in full, not like their phoney invoice.

      ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author Dee Odus
    The guy is too cclever for his own good, he got the click only to piss off the reader of his email. The click and conversion should go together. High click-through rate and low conversion is what I can smell from this email
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    At least this one was just spam. There are actual scams that have the same type of heading (invoice for your purchase) and when you open them they want you to look at the attached invoice....er, I mean virus.

    I'd drop this subscription off just as fast as the one that I got a few years back stating someone had killed themselves - just to find out when I opened it that "they worked all night" to bring me this fantastic offer. I unsubscribed and sent a letter to the company stating I didn't want any involvement with a company that would use such a low life method of advertising, and was pulling my complete account from their site because if their members were that stupid they weren't the caliber of people I really cared to do business with.
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  • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
    With a heading like that I would have opened it in eager anticipation of a new addition to my anti-scam blog!
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick Pretty
    Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

    Checking my email this morning I see the subject of:
    [INVOICE #095] PAYMENT OWED: $1,997
    This is a slightly dumbed-down form of something along these lines: "URGENT: YOUR DAUGHTER HAS BEEN INJURED." A few years ago, such toxic and incendiary emails were making the rounds.

    Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

    I open it up to see these first few lines of the body:

    "Don’t worry, I haven’t really sent you an invoice!

    *BUT* I wanted to tell you that I usually charge
    $1,997 for 1hr of personal coaching and I am
    typically booked up fully every month."
    It's interesting that the email you received came from a purported IM "coach" who "usually" charges "$1,997" an hour. This type of thing just breeds contempt for IM. The subject line tells you what it purportedly "is" -- an "INVOICE" with a number to plant the seed it is legitimate -- and the opening lines immediately backtrack to tell you what it isn't. Fly-by-night IMers often employ this type of device, perhaps later insisting they were only "testing" to make a determination of what "works."

    Because the "testing" explanation sounds reasonable to folks unwilling to peel back layers of the onion or folks who lack the time to do anything other than a cursory examination of the practice, the "testing" claim itself emerges as something that provides a certain amount of plausible deniability. This is how abuses can become institutionalized in a trade.

    In any event, the open question is and forever will be, "Even if you were 'testing' -- and even if you found that the subject line 'worked' to bring in boatloads of money -- have you not just demonstrated that you'll do anything for money as long as it 'works?'"

    The opening lines might as well say, "Now that I've grabbed your attention and caused you to think the worst, don't worry: Your daughter really hasn't been injured."

    Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

    I understand they are marketing after all, and that's usually okay. But this email goes WAY OVER THE LINE, in my opinion.
    They are not "marketing"; they are pack-hunting like ravenous wolves or circling like ravenous vultures over the scene of a planned roadkill designed to take out Bambi, Thumper and Flower. In doing so, they are reinforcing the most negative and destructive IM stereotypes. The bitterest irony is that the email came from a purported IM "coach" who claims he "usually" charges $1,997 an hour and is "typically booked up fully every month."

    "Usually" and "typically" are vacuous claims, of course -- but minor insults to the intelligence compared to the subject-line and opening-paragraph sins. This "marketer" just told you how stupid he thinks you are and how little regard he has for the trade. I'm glad you started this thread. It demonstrates that IMers don't take being viewed as stupid lightly, don't take being viewed as roadkill lightly and recognize how much damage such emails cause to people who want to conduct business online legitimately.

    Based on this email, it's easy to think that this $1,997-an-hour "coach"/sender wants to pluck his list to the available balances of their credit cards and wonder whether he incorporates his form of "YOUR DAUGHTER HAS BEEN INJURED" emails into his "course."

    I'm glad that Bambi, Thumper and Flower seem to have survived this one and were not poached as IM infants to feed the vultures and stock their nests for the inevitable day when unethical IM hunting no longer keeps them in fresh meat.
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  • Profile picture of the author JSProjects
    I would press the "Unsubscribe" button as quickly as possible. Actually, I've been doing it more and more recently. I've got a "junk" account that I use when signing up for newsletters. It's funny, some of the titles I'm seeing.

    I'm thinking that a lot of IM"ers are getting more and more desperate.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rush23
    I hate when I get emails like that
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  • Profile picture of the author nm241
    Banned
    Sounds like one of them scam emails you get.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by sonic74 View Post

      ha ha, I got exactly an email with the same headline today !

      Initially I have ignored it, but I opened up when I read this thread !

      "Don't worry, I haven't really sent you an invoice!

      *BUT* I wanted to tell you that I usually charge
      $1,997 for 1hr of personal coaching and I am
      typically booked up fully every month.

      LUCKILY for you, I've personally selected you
      and will give you a private & no cost Live Webinar
      Training....."
      Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

      Ok, here is something interesting.

      Does this change the story for anyone here? Seeing that it is a no charge event anyway?

      That third line just changed my impression. I'm still peeved, but maybe not as upset as when I saw only the first 2 bits.
      Actually, I'd have never gotten past the subject line. I know I didn't order anything for $1997, so I lump this in with all the other phony UPS, Fedex, IRS and FBI phishing attacks and delete it without hesitating.
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      • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe;4698083[B

        ]Actually, I'd have never gotten past the subject line. I know I didn't order anything for $1997[/B], so I lump this in with all the other phony UPS, Fedex, IRS and FBI phishing attacks and delete it without hesitating.
        Yes, I was sure I hadn't either...but it did arrive at the email address that I use for legit invoices, which meant I really couldn't just ignore it (what if a company was trying to bill me $1,997?? I'd need to deal with that).
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        • Profile picture of the author Patrick Pretty
          Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

          . . . but it did arrive at the email address that I use for legit invoices, which meant I really couldn't just ignore it (what if a company was trying to bill me $1,997?? I'd need to deal with that).
          Which is why what you (and others) experienced is deeply lamentable. As I mentioned previously, I'm glad you started this thread. And I was gratified to learn as the thread developed that you voted with your feet.

          IMers should not make excuses for well-known or celebrity marketers behaving badly, should not burden their minds by struggling to find ways to rationalize this fantastically damaging conduct, should not assign a scintilla of value to any "testing" explanation that may emerge and should not take this crap; it is a hideous and deceptive practice that only serves to reinforce the worst negative stereotypes.

          The more confident IMers should consider writing about it on their Blogs in a post that has nothing to do with sales -- and continue to complain about it on forums.

          This is important and cannot be stressed enough: Not only did the deceptive subject line falsely claim a payment of $1,997 was owed, it also referenced a specific, fictitious invoice number. In the case of this particular email, there were two lies contained within only 5 short words, making it a remarkably efficient whopper.

          [INVOICE #095] PAYMENT OWED: $1,997

          Think about it: Fewer than a half-dozen words were needed to carry not one, but two lies. It's another black day for marketing science.

          That the email was from a purported IM "coach" makes the irony both bitter and pungent, an irony that may be lost on noobs but will strike vets who've been railing about this sh** for years like a dagger in the heart.

          Now, imagine you're the supportive wife of a hardworking noob who's lost the breadwinning traditional job, lives in an area of high unemployment and is struggling to supplement the family income through IM because the part-time, minimum-wage job he's found 36-miles away barely feeds the family and keeps the lights and heat on.

          The wife, pretending she is chipper when her soul is on fire from worry, asks the husband what happened on the IM front today.

          "Well," the husband begins, "we got a bill for $1,997."

          "What!" the alarmed wife responds. "I picked up the mail today. There was no bill in it like that."

          "Came by email," the husband explains.

          "From who!" the wife demands.

          "From the man I thought I could learn about IM from."

          "We owe this guy $2,000? For what!"

          "Well, we don't actually owe the money. But I thought we did for a while."

          "We got a bill for $2,000 from an Internet Marketer, but we don't owe the money? I'm confused."

          "It was a trick to get me to open his email."

          "That's a pretty dirty trick," the wife says. "Is that what they teach?"

          "Seems so," the embarrassed husband laments. "And it seems that the science of Internet Marketing has been reduced to such a point that it is now possible to tell two written lies using only five words. You lie to people and alarm them so they'll open your emails, and then you tell them that they don't really owe you two grand. You're supposed to see the beauty of it -- and be happy to discover you don't really owe the money."

          "Did you tell him not to mess with your family that way?"

          "No," the husband answers. "I just filed a report with the Better Business Bureau and got off the guy's list."

          "Good idea about the BBB, Honey," the wife says. "What's a list?"

          "A list consists of the names and email addresses of people who've expressed an interest in doing business with you and learning from you. The people over at the Warrior Forum tell me it's the most valuable asset a marketer can have."

          "Then why would people lie to their lists?"

          "Beats me, Babe. But he ain't gonna lie to us again, especially when your due date is only six weeks away and we haven't paid any of the doctor's bills this month -- and this IM jerk made me believe we owed him $2,000 to boot. I put in an application at Walmart after I called the BBB; I don't think IM can work, not with this nonsense. I can't believe anybody now."

          "Two part time jobs now, Honey?"

          "Until we get back on our feet. And I hate thinking that we've been putting off talking about getting the braces Junior needs until after the baby is born."

          Patrick
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    If this consultant is usually booked up every month, why in Hades are they sending out promo messages for it? Sounds like a lot of BS to me. I would head straight for the unsubscribe button personally. This marketer is not to be trusted, in my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author xxxJamesxxx
    Got two with the same subject line myself today.

    Gotta admit - read it - but was 99% certain it was a marketer marketing something to me... And I was right.

    ...Good thing I have a special email account for these type of marketers

    James Scholes
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    • Profile picture of the author weblink29
      That's a terrible method IMO. Yes, you will probably get a lot of people opening and reading the first few lines of your email. Then they will realize what a sneaky SOB you are and never deal with you again.
      Signature

      Nothing to see here folks.....move along.

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  • Profile picture of the author Aviator Joe
    In any case, it's a pretty creative title (well, it DID catch your attention)
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  • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
    I hated these type of manipulative emails titles. I would never get a service from someone is closer to scammer than a marketer.

    Few month ago, I got a very offical letter, that I actually thought it is a government letter to pay fees, and finally I found out this company do such manipulation so u think it is a required payment.

    I don't believe no such action against these companies or people (Yes, the funny part it is legal).
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  • Profile picture of the author MatthewNeer
    I bet you that email got outrageous open rates. I would be curious to see the CTR on that. Maybe it got a high open but terrible CTR?

    But hey, at the end of the day, if it works, it works.

    Test. Rinse and repeat!
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      Originally Posted by MatthewNeer View Post

      I bet you that email got outrageous open rates. I would be curious to see the CTR on that. Maybe it got a high open but terrible CTR?

      But hey, at the end of the day, if it works, it works.

      Test. Rinse and repeat!
      I wouldn't give a feck if that e-mail got a high CTR
      and sales conversions at all.

      There are some things I'm NOT prepared to do as a
      marketer - and being deliberately deceptive is near
      the top of that list.

      Whoever sent that e-mail out is desperate.

      So rather than mindlessly rinsing and repeating
      scammy techniques like that - THINK first and
      then DECIDE whether it's even worth testing in
      YOUR business.

      Dedicated to mutual success,

      Shaun
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      .

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      • Profile picture of the author Coby
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        I wouldn't give a feck if that e-mail got a high CTR
        and sales conversions at all.

        There are some things I'm not prepared to do as a
        marketer - and being deliberately deceptive is near
        the top of the list.

        Whoever sent that e-mail out is desperate.

        So rather than mindlessly rinsing and repeating
        scammy techniques like that - THINK first and
        then DECIDE whether it's even worth testing in
        YOUR business.

        Dedicated to mutual success,

        Shaun
        I couldn't have said this better myself! Shaun is the man!
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by MatthewNeer View Post

      But hey, at the end of the day, if it works, it works.
      That depends on what your definition of "works" is.

      Nobody's gotten rich having people open their emails just to unsubscribe.

      ~Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
      Originally Posted by MatthewNeer View Post

      I bet you that email got outrageous open rates. I would be curious to see the CTR on that. Maybe it got a high open but terrible CTR?

      But hey, at the end of the day, if it works, it works.

      Test. Rinse and repeat!
      Really??

      I'd rather have a low open rate with a huge CTR that keeps my subscribers happy.

      This guy probably lost a ton of subscribers today, as others in this thread alone have said they too unsubscribed.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
      Originally Posted by MatthewNeer View Post

      I bet you that email got outrageous open rates. I would be curious to see the CTR on that. Maybe it got a high open but terrible CTR?

      But hey, at the end of the day, if it works, it works.

      Test. Rinse and repeat!
      You're confusing open rates and CTRs with actual conversions. I've tested enough e-mails to know a desperate e-mail when I see one. I highly doubt that specific e-mail converted well. Open rates and CTRs are important, but they pale compare to actual conversions and total ROI.

      RoD
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      • Profile picture of the author J Bold
        Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

        You're confusing open rates and CTRs with actual conversions. I've tested enough e-mails to know a desperate e-mail when I see one. I highly doubt that specific e-mail converted well. Open rates and CTRs are important, but they pale compare to actual conversions and total ROI.

        RoD
        How true.

        It doesn't always work out this way but I've had a high conversion rate and thus high sales with a poor open rate before.

        I've also had zero sales with a high open rate, before, as well.

        It just depends.
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  • Profile picture of the author JSThompson
    Me personally, I'd mark it as spam. After that I'd unsubscribe from the list and never look back.
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  • Profile picture of the author shawoon98
    very funny. I'm receiving this types of emails everyday. People should have a little common sense before selecting the mail subject.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rick Britton
    mark as spam let filter deal with it
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author UMS
    There's been a lot of advice to "unsubscribe", but with the majority of these types of emails that I receive, there is either no unsubscribe option, or it uses a fake unsubscribe option.

    Best option is to add it to spam filters.
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    • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
      Originally Posted by UMS View Post

      There's been a lot of advice to "unsubscribe", but with the majority of these types of emails that I receive, there is either no unsubscribe option, or it uses a fake unsubscribe option.

      Best option is to add it to spam filters.
      I found the option, and I guess I'll find out if it was legit or not in the coming days, but it was WAY down the page after the end of the email text. Like this:

      email closing/signature

      *
      *
      *
      *
      *
      *
      *

      *
      *
      *
      *
      *
      *
      *

      *
      *
      *
      *
      *
      *
      *

      *
      *
      *
      *
      *
      *
      *

      *
      *
      *
      *
      *
      *
      *
      unsubscribe option
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  • Profile picture of the author JimWaller
    I'm opposed to this type of marketing!
    As someone who is subscribed to almost everyone's list, it takes a lot for me to unsubscribe (I usually filter and forget) this is the type of email I would unsubscribe from if at all possible. While this tactic may get the message opened, it seems to me like it should not convert at all. BAD MARKETING!!!

    Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author Ben Gordon
    This is what I would do: report it to their autoresponder, unsubscribe from them and if I could I would've sued them but I don't have the time, money and effort to do so.

    Something like this is definitely illegitimate in my opinion and action should be taken against these types of marketers. I'm sure somebody nearly had a heart attack after seeing the subject of that email...

    My opinion about actual marketing: "The best way to market is to be honest".
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  • Profile picture of the author areaman
    Don't be too surprised if after you hit the unsubscribe button, you start getting junk e-mails from other sources. All you are doing (unless you recognize the sender) is telling the sender that you have a valid e-mail that he can sell to more spammers.
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  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

    Checking my email this morning I see the subject of:
    [INVOICE #095] PAYMENT OWED: $1,997

    I'm thinking..."I don't remember making a purchase for that amount..and no outsourced work for that amount, what could this be?".

    I open it up to see these first few lines of the body:

    "Don't worry, I haven't really sent you an invoice!

    *BUT* I wanted to tell you that I usually charge
    $1,997 for 1hr of personal coaching and I am
    typically booked up fully every month."



    Really?? Come on now... I'm usually very lenient with the emails I receive from marketers...I understand they are marketing after all, and that's usually okay.
    But this email goes WAY OVER THE LINE, in my opinion. I'd NEVER send something like this out, and it really pisses me off that someone else did.

    Warrior Thoughts? Do you find this kind of marketing acceptable (a clever ploy to get an email opened), or unacceptable (over the line)?
    So where did he get your email?

    Use the unsubscribe button
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    • Profile picture of the author Alan Ashwood
      This is totally unacceptable by any standard. You lie - you go.

      On email header that never gets opened by me is "This closes in 12 hours"; and similar.

      I'm in the UK, and chances are that the time's expired before I check that particular email.

      Actually, any that are obviously contrived headers get wiped out forever.

      I've just noticed it's 2.52am. Bed or Coffee?

      Coffee.
      Signature
      Now where did I put that pencil?

      Time for a cuppa.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    This reminds me a lot of an email I received a few months back. It was the one that said "Internet Marketer Dies", and then tried to sell a product off of it. This crappy type of "wow factor" really is the sign of a bad marketer. But hey, when you start to get really desperate I guess you will do anything.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ram
      The guy who sent it is not a dummy. I've been on his list for a long time. He's a damn smart marketer. Been in the game for quite a while.

      BUT ... I would not have done this. I don't know why he did it. Maybe a test for part of his list. Maybe not. Who knows? But it was a big mistake, IMHO.

      This kind of thing just pisses the hell out of people. Not good at all. Maybe it would work if you want to burn through a list and make a quick buck, but not for a longterm relationship. In fact. It's the exact opposite of what I have seen him advocate.
      So why? Again, who the hell knows ....

      But i would not unsubscribe unless it continues. As I said, he's a smart guy. You can learn from him. Maybe he's just a smart guy who made a helluva dumb mistake.
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      • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
        Originally Posted by Ram View Post

        The guy who sent it is not a dummy. I've been on his list for a long time. He's a damn smart marketer. Been in the game for quite a while.

        BUT ... I would not have done this. I don't know why he did it. Maybe a test for part of his list. Maybe not. Who knows? But it was a big mistake, IMHO.

        This kind of thing just pisses the hell out of people. Not good at all. Maybe it would work if you want to burn through a list and make a quick buck, but not for a longterm relationship. In fact. It's the exact opposite of what I have seen him advocate.
        So why? Again, who the hell knows ....

        But i would not unsubscribe unless it continues. As I said, he's a smart guy. You can learn from him. Maybe he's just a smart guy who made a helluva dumb mistake.
        It wasn't you who sent the email was it??

        Just joking

        I had been on the list since 2008, and now I'm unsubscribed. I subscribe to a few internet marketing "gurus", and the reason I subscribe is really to just study the emails they are sending out...not what they are promoting in particular, etc...but just to see what their current strategies are.

        I figured I could do without this guy after an email like this....what a dumb move. Yes, we are talking about it, but it's NEGATIVE. I've heard the saying "any publicity is good publicity"...in this case I disagree.
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  • Profile picture of the author tri36
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Ram
      Originally Posted by tri36 View Post

      thats what we call spam
      Not what I call spam. I subscribed to his list. If I don't like what he sends I can always unsubscribe.
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  • Now I love a good headline just as much as the next marketer...yep I subscribe to the National Enquirer! But when I got that email, it freaked me out for a minute.

    Just the day before I'd be going at it with a contractor who didn't install a fence properly at my home - it wasn't what we had agreed on and it did not meet the standards set up by the home owners association...and I was all ready to let him have it.:confused:

    But then I looked at who is was from and calmed down. And I had to laugh a little...crazy marketers. :p
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    • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
      Originally Posted by DominiquePrentiss View Post

      Now I love a good headline just as much as the next marketer...yep I subscribe to the National Enquirer! But when I got that email, it freaked me out for a minute.

      Just the day before I'd be going at it with a contractor who didn't install a fence properly at my home - it wasn't what we had agreed on and it did not meet the standards set up by the home owners association...and I was all ready to let him have it.:confused:

      But then I looked at who is was from and calmed down. And I had to laugh a little...crazy marketers. :p
      A prime example of why the subject line is over the line, imo.
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  • Profile picture of the author bamstk090
    wow,, that's very clever
    but spamming method
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Don't trick your subscribers
    You do not want to deceive the recipient into opening your emails. If you make a false promise such as, "Read this and get my next product free!" only to explain in the email body that there are other conditions to be met, then this can be looked at as deceptive marketing and hurt your company's reputation. Subscribers may even seek to hurt you by reporting your email as spam or simply unsubscribe from your list. Respect your subscribers enough to give them the clear truth.


    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author Palusko
    A little conspiracy theory into the mix - maybe the point of this email was to simply get as many people to open it as possible. And then, provide email solo ads services, proudly bragging about high open rates.
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    • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
      Originally Posted by Palusko View Post

      A little conspiracy theory into the mix - maybe the point of this email was to simply get as many people to open it as possible. And then, provide email solo ads services, proudly bragging about high open rates.
      That's definitely a:



      However, I think that would be just as deceptive, if not more so, than the email that was sent out. Trying to increase your ad revenue based off of what you know is an anomaly is extremely unethical, imo.
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  • Profile picture of the author abubakar89
    I dont even bother to open an email with such title.
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      Agree with the above.

      They are shooting themselves in the foot.
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  • Profile picture of the author shane_k
    This guy is obviously too focused on how to get his open rates up that he is missing out on what the customers reaction might possibly be, and how their reaction will determine if they stay a customer or not.

    It amazes me they think this kind of bait and switch strategy is something that is good to use. Sometimes I think people spend way too much time behind their computers that they actually forget their is a real person, on the otherside of the screen, who they are trying to communicate with. And these real people are absolutely able to make the disctinction between someone who is solid, and someone who is full of it.

    Shane_K
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  • Profile picture of the author jacksonlin
    Grabbing your attention is not the point of an email.

    The point is making SALES.

    NOT making you pissed off then to start a thread about it in a chat forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author theemperor
    Lol! All this talk of downloading emails vs. not downloading emails is remarkably quaint. Now where did I park my horseless carriage? :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author braincandy7
    If you want people to buy from you you need them to have at least a little bit of trust in you, especially if you want them to buy more than once.

    This idiot's first line to you is a lie and the second line admits that and laughs. Great way to build trust.

    I would unsubscribe and block the moron
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  • Profile picture of the author Christian Chan
    Regardless of the ethic, it gets the job done. And you guys should quit hating.
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    • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
      Originally Posted by Christian Chan View Post

      Regardless of the ethic, it gets the job done. And you guys should quit hating.
      What would that job be? To piss people off and make them unsubscribe?
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    • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
      Originally Posted by Christian Chan View Post

      Regardless of the ethic, it gets the job done. And you guys should quit hating.
      ^^^ Clueless.

      And anyone thinking this headline is even 'clever' is clueless, too.
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      • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
        Originally Posted by Dietriffic View Post

        ^^^ Clueless.

        And anyone thinking this headline is even 'clever' is clueless, too.
        Maybe he sent it out.

        I agree. How anyone can think tricking and/or lying to your subscribers, making them mad at you, and making them unsubscribe, can be called "clever" is beyond me.
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        • Profile picture of the author retirewithsandie
          I have GMail so I can see a preview of the email regardless of the headline to see if I want to check further.

          Originally Posted by Alan Ashwood View Post

          On email header that never gets opened by me is "This closes in 12 hours"; and similar.
          I don't either. The email they go to aren't my main emails so I check them whenever. So I bet if it were something I were truly interested in I betcha it'll STILL be available when I get around to it :p
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  • Profile picture of the author EwanRPark
    This type should be taken to a quiet place where they can reflect on the important things - Then Shot!
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  • Profile picture of the author debbiechamilton
    I think this would have been caught by my spam filter and never seen by me.
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  • Profile picture of the author 4Frankie
    I have had a few different emails with similar headings about you owe money and must admit - 1st thought was "who has put something on one of my accounts etc(which unfortunately has happened, but with great support from the account, was not paid), so yes gave me a start and yes annoys you.
    Yes agree that this is definitely not acceptable.
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    • Profile picture of the author AshJM
      Before you hit unsubscribe button make sure you hit the spam button first. This 'industry' needs a freaking shake-up, and the first place to start is by weeding out the good from the bad one click at a time.
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  • Profile picture of the author H.Miller
    I can't stand when people send emails like that. I never open them. I normally end up unsubscribing from their list.
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  • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
    $1,997 for 1hr
    Is this a he or a she?
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  • Profile picture of the author sanjon
    Shoot a F*** o** Mail and get alive mail to the sender and trust me, He will get back to you !!!
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