WSO Rule Question: 1. All WSO's Must Be Something You Created. A Product Of Your Own?

by LegitIncomes 28 replies
1. All WSO's Must Be Something You Created. A Product Of Your Own.

Let's say that I see a great IM product, and I purchase it. Not resell rights, but the actual full rights to it, and the owner transfers everything to me. The domain name, the product itself, all rights, etc....

I now own everything outright, it's 100% mine, my own product.
But, I didn't actually create it myself, I purchased it.

Can I offer this as a WSO??

As another example, let's say I offered John Reese an amazing amount of $$$ and purchased the full rights to Traffic Secrets 2.0 (ya I know it's not going to happen, just an example folks ). Everything is mine now, not John's....could I create an amazing WSO for this product??
#main internet marketing discussion forum #created #product #question #rule #wso
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  • Profile picture of the author rmholla
    Or what if you have a product (ebook, script, graphics pack) created for you with full rights to it, is that allowed as a WSO?


    Rhonda
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    • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
      Josh, if you have exclusive rights to the product, which I'm sure you do as the new owner, then I think you'll be alright selling it as a WSO. I'd wait 'till Allen gets back, just to be sure.
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      • Profile picture of the author peteinoz
        there are two ways to look at it. from a technical standpoint.. it would appear you can..

        but do we really want every tom dick and harry out there grabbing up rights to products just so they can fill up the WSO forum?

        I think the original idea of the wso forum is so forum members can create product to help other warriors and benefit from it at the same time.

        Up to allen I suppose

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        • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
          Hey Josh,

          Then it is your product, and you have a right to sell it as such.

          This happens in the WSO section all the time.

          That statement was written in a specific context.

          It is mainly for people pushing products with resale rights, Master rights, etc ...

          That's a whole different ballgame then owning a product out rights. Your product only has one owner, you, correct?

          Hope this helps ...


          Mary
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          • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
            Originally Posted by mmurtha View Post

            Hey Josh,

            Then it is your product, and you have a right to sell it as such.

            This happens in the WSO section all the time.

            That statement was written in a specific context.

            It is mainly for people pushing products with resale rights, Master rights, etc ...

            That's a whole different ballgame then owning a product out rights. Your product only has one owner, you, correct?

            Hope this helps ...


            Mary

            Yes, one owner has the full rights...that is correct.

            Thanks for the info everyone.

            Josh
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              The WSO rule says "must be something you CREATED - a product of your own" and then says "if you yourself did not create the product, don't post it here".

              I don't see how that can be interpreted as buying rights and reselling a product as it's not a product you created.

              Why not just ask Bryan or Allen and clarify it. I may be too literal in my own translation.

              kay
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                The WSO rule says "must be something you CREATED - a product of your own" and then says "if you yourself did not create the product, don't post it here".

                I don't see how that can be interpreted as buying rights and reselling a product as it's not a product you created.

                Why not just ask Bryan or Allen and clarify it. I may be too literal in my own translation.

                kay
                Kay,

                How does that cover ghostwritten content...of which there's tons?

                Not created by the owner, but which the owner themselves has exclusive rights to.

                My take on the rule in question is: Don't blatantly take the piss and pass off someone else's MRR, or undisturbed PLR as your own, because it devalues the board...and therefore by definition, every one of us.

                However, If you have sole ownership, go for it.

                How many of the big guns, yourself included, research, create, produce and finalise EVERY aspect of your business? I'm guessing not many.

                So, are you ineligible?

                'Course not.

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
                  The rule of thumb is if it was work for hire where you are the only person with rights to it then your ok. Products such as ghostwritten ebooks or software you had outsourced is fine.

                  If you buy out a product that you didn't create yourself or commission to be created then your in a grey area. No one can answer this situation but Allen himself. I would suggest sending a PM to Allen to ask his take on it.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    We can all have our opinions about what should and shouldn't be allowed to
                    be sold as a WSO, but guess what?

                    None of them mean a hill of beans because Allen is the only one with the
                    final say over what a "legal" WSO is and isn't.

                    I find it interesting that he hasn't yet weighed in on this as ultimately, what
                    he says goes.

                    The only opinion I have is that the WSO rules should be further clarified to
                    cover this gray area.

                    For example, an addendum that says either:

                    1a. Product that is made exclusively for you or a product that you have
                    exclusive rights to, either through purchase, inheritance of whatever, IS a
                    legal WSO.

                    or

                    1a. Product that is made exclusively for you or a product that you have
                    exclusive rights to, either through purchase, inheritance of whatever, IS
                    NOT a legal WSO.

                    It's that simple.
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                    • Profile picture of the author sylviad
                      All due respect, Stephen...

                      Allen's wording makes the issue as clear as possible. It's just the quirk of human nature to want to complicate things.

                      Common sense dictates that commissioned or ghostwritten products would constitute your own work, especially if you are the sole owner of the finished product.

                      Excess wording of rules can cause unnecessary confusion and lead to even more questions for clarification.

                      Sylvia
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                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                        Originally Posted by sylviad View Post

                        All due respect, Stephen...

                        Allen's wording makes the issue as clear as possible. It's just the quirk of human nature to want to complicate things.

                        Common sense dictates that commissioned or ghostwritten products would constitute your own work, especially if you are the sole owner of the finished product.

                        Excess wording of rules can cause unnecessary confusion and lead to even more questions for clarification.

                        Sylvia
                        Sylvia, if Allen's words made this as clear as possible, the quirk of human
                        nature to complicate things wouldn't be an issue.

                        There would be nothing to complicate.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      We can all have our opinions about what should and shouldn't be allowed to
                      be sold as a WSO, but guess what?

                      None of them mean a hill of beans because Allen is the only one with the
                      final say over what a "legal" WSO is and isn't.

                      I find it interesting that he hasn't yet weighed in on this as ultimately, what
                      he says goes.

                      The only opinion I have is that the WSO rules should be further clarified to
                      cover this gray area.

                      For example, an addendum that says either:

                      1a. Product that is made exclusively for you or a product that you have
                      exclusive rights to, either through purchase, inheritance of whatever, IS a
                      legal WSO.

                      or

                      1a. Product that is made exclusively for you or a product that you have
                      exclusive rights to, either through purchase, inheritance of whatever, IS
                      NOT a legal WSO.

                      It's that simple.
                      I totally agree, but I reckon the truth is...

                      It's easy (or at least should be) to see whether something is unique.

                      But it's difficult (or at least should be) to prove you are the actual author.

                      That's why I think it'll always remain a grey area, and to be honest, who cares as long as the information is valuable?

                      For the record, I wrote my one-and-only WSO myself, it exceeded my expectations...and gave me the confidence to carry on.

                      Others may not have that confidence in their writing abilities, but WILL have great advice to pass on to others. There's slack on both sides, which I'm sure Allen recognises.

                      Hence the reluctance to commit either way.

                      Steve
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                    • Profile picture of the author daddyoh
                      I agree with Kay about the WSO Rules saying the product must be something you created.

                      I read this as meaning you can't sell ghostwritten products or something you own because you bought the full ownership/copyright rights to.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
                        Originally Posted by daddyoh View Post

                        I agree with Kay about the WSO Rules saying the product must be something you created.

                        I read this as meaning you can't sell ghostwritten products or something you own because you bought the full ownership/copyright rights to.
                        In principle, DaddyOh, I agree.

                        But how, and who is going to be able to police it?

                        There are plenty of ghostwriters here who will produce you a killer WSO with no further credit other than their fee-per-word...

                        Who would ever know, and how would they ever find out?

                        The value and uniqueness are surely more important than the fact the seller is the author? Ronald McDonald doesn't serve my BigMac, and hey, that's fine by me...

                        Once again, my disclaimer is...I wrote my only WSO myself, personally, me, myself and I.

                        Steve
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                      • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
                        Originally Posted by daddyoh View Post

                        I agree with Kay about the WSO Rules saying the product must be something you created.

                        I read this as meaning you can't sell ghostwritten products or something you own because you bought the full ownership/copyright rights to.

                        If you couldn't sell ghostwritten products then half the current WSO's would be gone. Quite a few people pay someone else to write small reports and ebooks then turn around and sell them as WSO's.


                        Edit::

                        Think about all the software products that are released all the time as WSO's. There are actually only a handfull of us who write our own code and release WSO's. Products such as Windows apps, php scripts, cgi scripts, and many others are hired out.

                        For example, if you look there have been several WSO's for membership software. I write my own code but Kim is not a programmer and hires out the work on her EMP script. This is not a problem as she is the owner of the script even though she didn't write the code. (Sorry for using you as an example Kim but you were the first one to come to mind..lol )

                        Many people write their own products and thats fine for them. However, with everyone and their uncle preaching you should be outsourcing everything you can there are many people who outsource product creation.

                        Allen has said on the old forum that any product you create yourself or commission to be created expressly for yourself is fine as a WSO. The rule in question was put in place for a specific reason, to stop the huge flow of RR, MRR, an PLR products that were flooding the forum at the time.

                        Lets all use a little common sense ( and yes I know common sense is anything but common ) and not complicate things more than need be. If you have a question about the rules then there is only one place to go, directly to Allen. Only he can make judgement calls on what is allowed or not and nothing anyone else will say in here is much more than opinion, including my own posts.
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                        • Profile picture of the author sylviad
                          Originally Posted by Johnny Slater View Post

                          Allen has said on the old forum that any product you create yourself or commission to be created expressly for yourself is fine as a WSO. The rule in question was put in place for a specific reason, to stop the huge flow of RR, MRR, an PLR products that were flooding the forum at the time.

                          Lets all use a little common sense ( and yes I know common sense is anything but common ) and not complicate things more than need be. If you have a question about the rules then there is only one place to go, directly to Allen. Only he can make judgement calls on what is allowed or not and nothing anyone else will say in here is much more than opinion, including my own posts.
                          Right on! Exactly what I was saying. This is it, in a nutshell.

                          Allen should move that post over here. You don't happen to have the link, do you?
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                          • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
                            Originally Posted by sylviad View Post

                            Right on! Exactly what I was saying. This is it, in a nutshell.

                            Allen should move that post over here. You don't happen to have the link, do you?
                            Sylvia,

                            I think we're all gravitating towards common sense. Not everyone, though, is either common or sensible, so this kind of to-and-fro is often necessary to settle even the most stupid quarrell.

                            Thanks for facilitating so patiently.

                            Steve
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                          • Profile picture of the author Kate Anderson
                            I've seen a lot of people sell reports that they directly admitted to not having written themselves, but they have full rights to. I always understood that to be perfectly acceptable, in fact, I have written for quite a few warriors with their intention being to turn around and sell it as a WSO.

                            (Leave it to warriors to complicate things )
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                            • Profile picture of the author Greg Cooksley
                              Hey Allen,

                              Be quick....put us out of our misery.....we can't wait any longer!!!

                              Regards

                              Greg
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                              • Profile picture of the author Faisal Anwar
                                I have another question, what if I want to sell a service at a special offer? Does that belong to WSO? Lets say I want to sell a hosting service (not affiliated), I own the service and everything, is that allowed?
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                                • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
                                  My understanding has always been that anything you have paid to have created for you exclusively, a script, a report, a product is allowed to be sold as a wso.

                                  Anything you buy which include PLR, MRR, RR are not allowed to be sold.

                                  The problem is where do you draw the line in the sense of products that we create? I can write a report but have the graphics created by someone else, does that mean that the product isn't mine? How many of the products that the gurus sell are actually created by them? Think about the products that Tiff wrote for warriors, should none of those be allowed to be sold even though you wouldn't know Tiff wrote them?

                                  Interesting that so many warriors buy PLR and make changes to them and then sell them as their own. Too often if you look at them you will see that you can tell exactly where the original one came from.

                                  Some of the dead giveaways are those which come as a Package which are exactly the same as PLR being sold with unrestricted rights. Some just change the graphics, but they have exactly the same number of words in their reports, same number of autoresponder messages, same number of PR messages, same number of lessons to send and so I could go on.

                                  In answer to Josh's question it has been done before. JD sold the rights to one of his books, and that was then sold as a wso by the new owner. They said that they had bought exclusive ownership from JD.

                                  For those who asked about buying PLR and using it here is what was said on the old forum

                                  The Warrior Forum - WSO and rehased PLR question

                                  Read Michael Tracey's answer for the short simple answer.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
                                    If you paid someone to write it for you then you created it. Same as if you co-authored something then you could quite clearly run a WSO with the other person's permission even though you didn't "create" half of it.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                                      Sell unique stuff that is a good value at a special rate and I'd think you'll be fine.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author sylviad
                                    Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

                                    ...Interesting that so many warriors buy PLR and make changes to them and then sell them as their own. Too often if you look at them you will see that you can tell exactly where the original one came from.

                                    Some of the dead giveaways are those which come as a Package which are exactly the same as PLR being sold with unrestricted rights. Some just change the graphics, but they have exactly the same number of words in their reports, same number of autoresponder messages, same number of PR messages, same number of lessons to send and so I could go on.

                                    In answer to Josh's question it has been done before. JD sold the rights to one of his books, and that was then sold as a wso by the new owner. They said that they had bought exclusive ownership from JD....
                                    The practice of taking a product, changing the graphics and reselling it is, in my view, deceptive. I occasionally buy PLR/MRR for the basic outline and build on that to create a new product with new graphics. Several times, I've seen those same products that I started with being sold with different graphics - as PLR. Had I bought them, I would have purchased the same product twice.

                                    I've also seen those same products offered free on other sites, either as bonuses or to get opt-ins.

                                    That is partially why admin specifies only your own work. Where's the value of the WSO if your products are being given away or sold under a new cover? If you can't make the PLR/MRR completely original to you, it's not your own. Period.

                                    Sylvia
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            • Profile picture of the author Louis Raven
              What if I buy PLR and rewrite it to make it unique?

              Is this still a problem? (of course, I wont try unless I know for sure)

              Louis
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              • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
                That would be cool to see Google offer YouTube as a WSO.

                Who wants to go in as partners? :p

                Remember, it's got to be a special offer usually in the form of a lower price than available to the outside world.
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                • Profile picture of the author sylviad
                  The point is that the product comes by your own creative efforts.

                  You can buy licenses to products, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you are the only owner or person promoting it. If you take PLR and rewrite it, that is basically the same as writing your own articles as long as they are 100% different. If they are only 50%, 75%, 90% original, they are not truly original.

                  Another view is that Allen doesn't want to degrade the value of the WSO offers by allowing PLR that can be purchased elsewhere / anywhere. It doesn't really offer anything new or unique.

                  Look at it this way. What true value is there in most of the PLR that's out there? Do you want to be recognized as a Warrior who provides top quality products, or one who provides mediocre ones? Do you want to be known as someone who copies everyone else or a person with unique ideas that benefit Warriors?

                  If you pay someone else to create your product, of course it would be allowed, in my opinion anyway. You would create it if you had the time, skills or tools. For example, if you have a programmer write a script or software for you, then it's yours and yours alone. I believe that's what Allen intends.

                  ... I could be wrong, of course.

                  Sylvia
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    So it sounds like most people are agreeing that you should've created the product yourself, or had someone create it for you - that sounds fine.

    So where does that leave the issue of people buying PLR and 'changing it' and then turning it around and reselling their 'new product' as a WSO. There are warriors making a good living doing eactly this right now. (I'm not one as I don't call rewriting a PLR product creating a new product - but I know some people here do)

    If it seems to common-sense and is the way things should be - how come it's not the way that things are actually working?.... perhaps because it's so difficult to tell. Without someone buying every WSO and checking the content we're relying on people to play the game and follow Allens rules - which clearly leaves some room for people that make their own rules to fill the wso section with regurtitated crap.

    Hopefully someone has the answer rather than just debating the question.
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    • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Hopefully someone has the answer rather than just debating the question.

      I'm surprised the thread has gone this long without someone actually asking Allen by PM.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      So it sounds like most people are agreeing that you should've created the product yourself, or had someone create it for you - that sounds fine.

      So where does that leave the issue of people buying PLR and 'changing it' and then turning it around and reselling their 'new product' as a WSO. There are warriors making a good living doing eactly this right now. (I'm not one as I don't call rewriting a PLR product creating a new product - but I know some people here do)

      If it seems to common-sense and is the way things should be - how come it's not the way that things are actually working?.... perhaps because it's so difficult to tell. Without someone buying every WSO and checking the content we're relying on people to play the game and follow Allens rules - which clearly leaves some room for people that make their own rules to fill the wso section with regurtitated crap.

      Hopefully someone has the answer rather than just debating the question.

      Andy, that's the problem...there is no answer. Who's to say what's
      "regurgitated crap" or original or what? I can write a report on xyz right
      off the top of my head and somebody can read it and say, "This isn't
      original because I know all this stuff already."

      Original, created yourself, all those "catch phrases" lead us down a very
      slippery slope when we try to define them.

      I don't have the answer to this problem and I freely admit it. Fortunately,
      I'm not the one who has to come up with the answer as this isn't my
      forum. And quite honestly, I don't envy the person who does.

      And that's why we are having this discussion.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
        It doesn't stop there...

        There's a WSO running right now that has 'borrowed' the copy word-for-word from a similar but completely different product...sadly with some pretty high profile testimonials.

        Personally, I don't give a toss, but those who gave such glowing praise just might...

        Steve
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