Major way to improve the WSO section...

106 replies
E. Brian Rose has inspired me to write this based on his other thread about Spoiled WF Children


One of the biggest problems in the WSO section has to do with sellers, in essence, building these massive products worth 100+ bucks and then giving it away, basically, for 5 to 10 bucks.

I've learned throughout my 3 years of running WSO's that this isn't a good strategy. But the solution isn't necessarily raising your price. That's one solution. But I have a different one.

The solution is changing your product.


I no longer do 20+ videos with a crap ton of bonuses.

You know what I do?

I do short, 10 to 40 page (no more), PDF reports that contain these three things:

1. The basic idea/strategy/plan.

2. A simple step by step procedure for the plan.

3. An included "why it works" and "why you should do it".

Optionally, I am trying to include short stories, that are entertaining and help emphasize any points I'm trying to make.


My goals with these WSO's, for the consumer, are simple:

1. I want them to be able to read through it in less than 20 minutes.
2. I want them to be entertained.
3. I want them to feel like it's easy enough to be done that they could go out and do it right now.

(And BTW - I'm not suggesting giving away crap or having false promises. Instead, I break down systems of marketing and give them a TINY piece of the pie...something they REALLY CAN DO right now to help them increase their income, that doesn't require much work)

Then, as an upsell, I add something that makes sense! Like a more complete picture, more techniques to help them along, or something that compliments the product but isn't required to make it work.


Now, here are the major advantages to doing it this way:

1. You'll take less time making the WSO. I kid you not, it only takes me 1 to 2 hours to make the primary WSO - compared to 20+ hours before! That's a MAJOR increase in money earned per hour.

2. Your customers will love you! Yes they will. Why? They can read the WSO quickly, they feel they can do it (not overwhelming), they're entertained AND because it's quick, they can read it and come right back to your thread and give you a nice comment on it.

3. You can break up that massive content WSO and sell 10 times as many copies, basically, as you would before.

Let's think about this - 1 WSO with 20 videos...or break the content up into bit sized chunks and run 10 to 20 WSOs. Each WSO earns a similar amount.

4. These type of reports are PERFECT for 100% commission loss leaders to bring in more clients. Just make sure you build a backend out of it.

For WSO's sellers, this is a no brainer and it's what you should be doing immediately.

Finally, take a look at this post. I just shared something I really could have sold for 7 bucks in the WSO forum - how to increase your WSO selling power, Increase Your Customer Happiness, and decrease the time it takes to market. This post is almost a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

And the best thing is - you haven't changed your price at all.

-Rob
#improve #major #section #wso
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
    Banned
    Think hotsheets.

    A tactic, a strategy. a how-to.

    Hotsheets.

    Keep it simple.
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

      Think hotsheets.

      A tactic, a strategy. a how-to.

      Hotsheets.

      Keep it simple.
      I agree. I think Hotsheets are a great idea.
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      • Profile picture of the author Suthan M
        If you ask me, I would just let anyone who is doing the cheap WSOs to just continue as they are..

        After all, it is a free country, and they should be allowed to do what they want.

        I personally disagree with "the cheap price tactic", but i think sooner or later, as the market matures, and the seller realizes that they cant really run a long term biz selling "penny products" , they will come to their senses.

        Let those who focus on the pricepoint to be, and let those who focus on the value be as well. After all, tehy paid the $40, and that is their right to do so.

        Suthan


        I am doing great selling products of mine for $397 all day long thanks to them :-D
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        • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
          Originally Posted by Suthan M View Post



          I am doing great selling products of mine for $397 all day long thanks to them :-D
          And there isn't anything wrong with that! But if you're going to do "cheap" - do it right.

          Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy Broussard
    Good points Rob.

    Too many people keep trying to raise the "free bar" with more, more, more...

    But the truth is the #1 worst sin you can commit as a marketer is making your client feel stupid. And overwhelming them with too much can have that effect.

    It also, as you make reference to, tends to not have a high yield because the people that grab the "bigger is better" approach will have a much less likely probability of actually consuming that content and becoming an ideal client for you.

    Good post Rob...
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  • Profile picture of the author JSThompson
    I agree with the poster above, reading through this made me think of hotsheets and I absolutely love the idea. I think this is a great point. A+++ post.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Yes you guys, yes!

    This is exactly it.

    Most of your buyers in the WSO forum aren't stupid...no, they're pretty smart. But what they ARE is busy.

    Most of the people buying WSO's with regularity are buying LOTS of WSO's. They don't have the time to go through 20+ videos.

    What they do have the time for is a short, 20 minute or less read.

    And here is the kicker - let's say that you sell a WSO about getting traffic through guest blogging. You give them short tips that help them - and have a upsell that is basically:

    "You Now Know The Secrets Behind Getting Easy Traffic - Now Add On The Next Step - Getting That Traffic to BUY!"

    Again - another simple 17 dollar report or a few videos. Something that makes sense.

    Let's think about this - you can go jacksh** crazy with a product, take 20 or 40 hours to put it together - then compete with all the other people who are making outlandish claims like "Make 10k overnight in your underwear..."

    OR

    You can take a few hours, put a REAL awesome report together that shows them ONE THING really well - and you no longer compete with these other bozo's. You don't have to make outlandish claims. And your product can produce a line of cheapo reports - that increase your income. Because instead of selling 1 massive product at 10 bucks - you now sell 10 short products at 10 bucks each and with some customers they buy 100 dollars!

    So you've now gotten them to purchase 100 dollars instead of 10.

    Makes a lot of sense to me!

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author Centurian
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      Yes you guys, yes!

      This is exactly it.

      Most of your buyers in the WSO forum aren't stupid...no, they're pretty smart. But what they ARE is busy.

      Most of the people buying WSO's with regularity are buying LOTS of WSO's. They don't have the time to go through 20+ videos.

      What they do have the time for is a short, 20 minute or less read.

      And here is the kicker - let's say that you sell a WSO about getting traffic through guest blogging. You give them short tips that help them - and have a upsell that is basically:

      "You Now Know The Secrets Behind Getting Easy Traffic - Now Add On The Next Step - Getting That Traffic to BUY!"

      Again - another simple 17 dollar report or a few videos. Something that makes sense.

      Let's think about this - you can go jacksh** crazy with a product, take 20 or 40 hours to put it together - then compete with all the other people who are making outlandish claims like "Make 10k overnight in your underwear..."

      OR

      You can take a few hours, put a REAL awesome report together that shows them ONE THING really well - and you no longer compete with these other bozo's. You don't have to make outlandish claims. And your product can produce a line of cheapo reports - that increase your income. Because instead of selling 1 massive product at 10 bucks - you now sell 10 short products at 10 bucks each and with some customers they buy 100 dollars!

      So you've now gotten them to purchase 100 dollars instead of 10.

      Makes a lot of sense to me!

      Rob

      AMEN ROB! I'd rather print out a .pdf and read when I've got a few minutes. This way I can even take it with me mobile. Who wants to spend more time watching a bunch of videos on the monitor?
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
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  • Profile picture of the author AmandaT
    As a buyer I also love hotsheets. Quick information I can get something out of right away.

    Why make a product that it will take the buyer hours to go through when you can give them all of that information in an easier to understand method where they can also absorb all of the information faster?

    Not to mention, if I am buying a WSO, I'd rather have someone show me how to do one thing well than to teach me how to do 10 different things! (Not to mention newbies get overloaded fast when you give them tons of methods in one product.)
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Yes - that's the big thing. Show a person how to do one thing really well - get traffic, sell more, or simple methods of making money. People are busy, and it's much easier to get them to like and read the report if it's simple and to the point.

    I think a lot of WSO runners think they have to have a MASSIVE product to make money. All this VALUE. But value isn't in the amount of stuff. It's in the ability to get people to be entertained and feel enlightened by their purchase.

    If they feel they've learned something new or a new twist on something - and they feel like it was a fun read, they'll love you for it.

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author Suellen Reitz
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      Yes - that's the big thing. Show a person how to do one thing really well - get traffic, sell more, or simple methods of making money. People are busy, and it's much easier to get them to like and read the report if it's simple and to the point.

      I think a lot of WSO runners think they have to have a MASSIVE product to make money. All this VALUE. But value isn't in the amount of stuff. It's in the ability to get people to be entertained and feel enlightened by their purchase.

      If they feel they've learned something new or a new twist on something - and they feel like it was a fun read, they'll love you for it.

      Rob
      Hi Rob,
      Thanks for these great pointers! I have a question for you... my partners and I have put together a complete A to Z package for the new Im'r on how to get up and running. Yes... just as you have said here... it is long...17 plus hours w/ over 50 videos. We were wanting to put it as a WSO just to get more exposure, great testimonials (hopefully) and possibly a lead to future affiliates. Would you recommend doing what you have said above for this product? To split it up into separate WSOs? In a way that would be effective and less intimidating for the buyer... but the whole point of us making the all inclusive package was to help newbies in a one-stop-shop mentality.. Thanks for any response here!
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    • Profile picture of the author xohaibx
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      I think a lot of WSO runners think they have to have a MASSIVE product to make money. All this VALUE. But value isn't in the amount of stuff. It's in the ability to get people to be entertained and feel enlightened by their purchase.

      Rob
      You hit the nail there Rob. When people buy a product they're not just buying information from you, they're buying an experience. Make your product entertaining, and you'll build a cult following.

      Look around, all those celebrities have die-hard fans for a reason - they're awesome when it comes to making their 'customers' feel enlightened. Let me give an example to show how 'boring content' is different from an 'entertaining one' ...

      Boring Content:

      Get Top Search Engine Rankings

      We will help you rank your website quickly and easily. The results you will experience will be nothing but positive. We seek to deliver on our promise and do our best to not disappoint you. Your online business will definitely benefit by using our proven service!

      Entertaining Content:

      Get Proven Results, Rank Quicker

      Psstt … want to climb the Mt. Everest and have the adventure of your lifetime? Well, sorry, we can’t really help you do that. But what we CAN help you with is getting your website ranked quicker. What we CAN promise you is results that matter. What we CAN give you is a promotional experience that will make a pretty big difference to your online business. It’s a simple deal, really, you pay us to deliver top notch results, and we live up to your expectations.

      The above example is random, but I hope people here get an idea as to what Rob is really talking about

      - Mustafa
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Rob,

    I like it. I'm also a fan of hot sheets, good idea Mark. I just threw in the popcorn graphic because I predict this will be one of those multi-page threads. But I like how you're thinking. Set up your first product as a loss-leader or a break-even and then have a back-end strategy that "fleshes out" the first WSO.

    There are always customers out there that want more relevant information, some want more step-by-step instructions, mind maps, flow charts, and others want case studies and/or coaching. I could go on, but I'm putting butter on my popcorn....

    R
    o
    Dness
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  • Profile picture of the author Mieko
    Bit-sized, quality information for cheap. 100% commissions for affiliates. Effective backend.
    Happy customers. Sounds like a winning recipe to me Rob.

    ... I hate hours and hours of videos and mindmaps myself. I prefer quick and to the point info. If
    someone could sum up an effective, new business model in one page, I'd pay $97
    way before I would a complex, 'over the shoulder', hand-holding, bonus overload, blueprint.

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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Mieko View Post

      Bit-sized, quality information for cheap. 100% commissions for affiliates. Effective backend.
      Happy customers. Sounds like a winning recipe to me Rob.

      ... I hate hours and hours of videos and mindmaps myself. I prefer quick and to the point info. If
      someone could sum up an effective, new business model in one page, I'd pay $97
      way before I would a complex, 'over the shoulder', hand-holding, bonus overload, blueprint.

      What do you want to know?
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  • Profile picture of the author bwh1
    Hey buddy

    spot on, I don't like HUGE WSO's to be honest.

    What really kicks me off is the garbage which lately appears each day. Some even get's emailed to me as "the best since sliced bread" but when I purchase, I puke.

    I think that the mods should monitor the WSO's better, aka take a look at the product before it goes life (not only at the sales page). I just guess that's not the case now, sorry if I'm wrong.

    But overall I get great products if I stick to plugins, software, graphics and some how to manuals (one of the best I got lately was a guide on how to make videos offline)

    But again, I'm with you with "better short and sweet then big, fat and heavy".

    G.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
    Improve it by disallowing all income claims. Then the hype goes away.

    Now products will have to stand on what they actually do and on their overall quality, not what some hyped up claim says you will make from it.
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    • Profile picture of the author bwh1
      Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

      Improve it by disallowing all income claims. Then the hype goes away.

      Now products will have to stand on what they actually do and on their overall quality, not what some hyped up claim says you will make from it.
      Correct, or at least get a mod take a look at the product and sniff a bit around to see if the claims are only hype or actually possible if you follow the system.

      You usually can catch very quickly if the product stands up on it's claim's when you see if over a short review.

      G.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
        Originally Posted by bwh1 View Post

        Correct, or at least get a mod take a look at the product and sniff a bit around to see if the claims are only hype or actually possible if you follow the system.

        You usually can catch very quickly if the product stands up on it's claim's when you see if over a short review.

        G.
        Mods don't have time to look at products. Just disallow income claims and that would make things much better.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Keith
          Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

          Mods don't have time to look at products. Just disallow income claims and that would make things much better.
          the ftc will get a handle on that...probably sooner rather than later.

          and i would predict they will require the WF to help enforce it much like they are doing with clickbank. i know it is somewhat different, but WF could make it against their tos to make income claims.

          i think the ftc / gov. will make it so WF is compelled to make income claims against the WF wso tos.
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        • Profile picture of the author bwh1
          Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

          Mods don't have time to look at products. Just disallow income claims and that would make things much better.
          Well, doesn't WF makes money over the WSO's?

          Then they should have an interest to deliver quality to their users, even indirectly.

          If that doesn't cover the costs of the mods reviewing 120 WSO's daily, charge $100 bucks to post a WSO in stead of the $40 and you probably get rig of the crap.

          Even if there would be 100 WSO daily, with 100,- per WSO there will be 10k to pay a few mods per day (if the money will not have to be refunded).

          I'm on the list for that Job, charge only $20 to review a WSO

          G.
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      • Profile picture of the author Suthan M
        Originally Posted by bwh1 View Post

        Correct, or at least get a mod take a look at the product and sniff a bit around to see if the claims are only hype or actually possible if you follow the system.

        You usually can catch very quickly if the product stands up on it's claim's when you see if over a short review.

        G.
        I think, with about 60-120 WSOs shifting actively in there on a daily basis, the mods might not exactly be thrilled with that idea. At least, whoever the (un)lucky mod is, he will be hard pressed to find free time ever again if he takes up that :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Great points, Rob (and others)!

    This is a bit unrelated, but I wanted to give a special shout out to you because you tend to be solutions oriented, and that's an admirable quality. Glad you're still here.

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    I don't come from a marketing background, per se.

    I have learned internet marketing as I go.

    When I first came to this forum I had never heard the term "hotsheet." Now I've seen it used a lot and I understand the basic meaning, but I thought it would be a good idea for everyone here from varying backgrounds to hear a nice dictionary definition of the term.

    Lo and behold, I could not find one online! And I have to admit, while understanding how the term is used, have never seen an official definition of the word.

    As I understand it, a hotsheet generally is a focused, short report giving a concise overview of a topic. Meant to be a quick read and give you as full an understanding as possible of a subject. In IM, a hotsheet could be a nice overview of how to utilize Facebook fan pages to build a list, for example, and would be perhaps 10-20 pages.

    So hotsheet writers and those who have used this term professionally more than I, would that be about right?

    In any case, I love Rob's approach to his WSOs, now. And, rather than another rant thread, we have a breath of fresh air and a reasonable approach to the current WSO market.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

      I don't come from a marketing background, per se.

      I have learned internet marketing as I go.

      When I first came to this forum I had never heard the term "hotsheet." Now I've seen it used a lot and I understand the basic meaning, but I thought it would be a good idea for everyone here from varying backgrounds to hear a nice dictionary definition of the term.

      Lo and behold, I could not find one online! And I have to admit, while understanding how the term is used, have never seen an official definition of the word.

      As I understand it, a hotsheet generally is a focused, short report giving a concise overview of a topic. Meant to be a quick read and give you as full an understanding as possible of a subject. In IM, a hotsheet could be a nice overview of how to utilize Facebook fan pages to build a list, for example, and would be perhaps 10-20 pages.

      So hotsheet writers and those who have used this term professionally more than I, would that be about right?

      In any case, I love Rob's approach to his WSOs, now. And, rather than another rant thread, we have a breath of fresh air and a reasonable approach to the current WSO market.
      You're about right.

      But they could also be for example boat building plans. Home building plans. This kind of thing too.

      It really depends on your market.

      In our industry, Internet marketing, these would typically be short, to the point, no fluff, no BS short reports. Here's the problem... here is a solution.
      You're here - you want to go there. These are the steps which will take you to your destination. Concise step-by-step instructions.

      For example...

      7 Steps to Marketing Success

      7 Steps to Bring in Offline Clients Today

      7 Tips to Build a List at Breakneck Speed

      7 Tips to Build a Relationship With Your List Subscribers

      Of course, make up your own benefit driven headline titles.

      But you get the picture.

      Keep it simple. Straight to the point information. No going off on tangents.

      Best,


      Mark Andrews
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

      As I understand it, a hotsheet generally is a focused, short report giving a concise overview of a topic. Meant to be a quick read and give you as full an understanding as possible of a subject. In IM, a hotsheet could be a nice overview of how to utilize Facebook fan pages to build a list, for example, and would be perhaps 10-20 pages.

      So hotsheet writers and those who have used this term professionally more than I, would that be about right?
      Here's how I define a Hotsheet:

      1. Short (usually no more than 15-20 pages)
      2. No fluff
      3. Actionable (you need to be able to read it quickly and then start putting it to use right away)
      4. Focusing on one solution/model/aspect

      JMHO and YMMV
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

    ....
    One of the biggest problems in the WSO section has to do with sellers, in essence, building these massive products worth 100+ bucks and then giving it away, basically, for 5 to 10 bucks.......-Rob
    Rob, I happen to think it makes a lot of sense. I also have to comment that the way prices are moving on wso's, soon the average price will be $5.....

    When I first started buying wso's 2 years ago, they averaged $27, then it seemed most dropped to an average of $17, and now most list for $10 or less....at some point, the only product that can be provided at $5 (where it's headed, imo) is a short, tightly written report.
    _____
    Bruce NewMedia
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    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by brucerby View Post

      I also have to comment that the way prices are moving on wso's, soon the average price will be $5.....


      Bruce NewMedia
      And then $3, and then $1 and then 50 cents, and then 1 cent and then you will actually have to pay people to download your WSO instead of the other way around!

      Oh dear, what is this world coming to?

      Ha ha, just joking...

      Honestly, though, the popular price these days seems to be right about $9. A lot of these guys getting WSO of the day seem to have it at $9, $9.90, $9.95, etc.

      I saw what looked a good WSO in the last day or two that I think got WSO of the day, but last I checked it was up at $19. Tons of content in there, at least it looked like it (didn't buy it, just dont have time right now!), so the price could be justified.

      But, on the other side of people who lament the prices going down, it's warranted in some cases.

      I've seen WSOs that were absolute garbage, huge font, huge paragraph-sized white spaces, and hyped to the extreme sold for $27 and told that it was a great deal! ha ha, that was a long time ago when I bought too many WSOs, myself. I did not buy from that seller again...
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  • Profile picture of the author jan roos
    If you have something of great value to people and if they'll make money following what you teach and you have 20 videos or whatever teaching all of this charge $97 at least for it and propel will buy it if it's good plus it'll help you stand out from the crowd of $10 products.

    That's My opinion

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  • Profile picture of the author DonDavis
    Once upon a time Allen Says wrote a couple of pdf's
    on the short report topic. It was a great read at
    the time. Maybe it's still available?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    This is an excellent post Rob with some great confirmation replies. Thanks for posting it.

    I am getting a LOT of feedback that echoes exactly what you say. WSO buyers want fast effective solutions to specific problems and most are aware that for more complete solutions they might have to pay more. I think this is where the WSO section might be heading. Value will remain but the price spectrum will broaden. $97 WSOs will offer a more copmplete solution while the cheaper single digit products will offer more targeted specific solutions. The entire section doesn't have to be any specific price range.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I predict:

    1) We'll soon see the word "Hotsheet" in the title of a good many WSO's.

    2) People will soon be complaining that Hotsheets are overpriced, the info can be found for free online, too many steps are missing, they lack detail, etc.

    Disclaimer: I am not a professional psychic nor have I ever played one in the movies. There was that time me and Jimmy tricked his little brother though...
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Y
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      I predict:

      1) We'll soon see the word "Hotsheet" in the title of a good many WSO's.

      2) People will soon be complaining that Hotsheets are overpriced, the info can be found for free online, too many steps are missing, they lack detail, etc.

      Disclaimer: I am not a professional psychic nor have I ever played one in the movies. There was that time me and Jimmy tricked his little brother though...
      LOL, You maybe psychic, I was just about to remain a WSO I'm working on to include the word "Hotsheet".
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    I've just been inspired to write this subject heading for my next WSO:

    [ Read This Hot Sheet B***ch! ] Insert Rest Of Catchy Title Here.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Interestingly Rob, you are making a great point here.

    Sam and I put out one WSO where we had over 11 hours of video, over 100 pages of PDF, and several bonuses.

    We released it at $17, and the sales were okay, but not what we had expected.

    We raised the price to $67 as a WSO then released the 100-page PDF with a single one-hour video, put it in the WSO section at $17, and sold twice as many copies of the small one as we did the big one -- even though the small one was part of the big one and the initial price was the same!!

    We are still selling the big one on our website for $97 and offering it as a WSO for $67, and people are still buying it at both prices.

    The smaller one is still selling too...

    I'd say, "Go figure that one out!!" But you already have...
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    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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  • Profile picture of the author ClementChee
    I think I just read something related to this thread.

    They are talking about how the WSO buyers are spoiled. I guess the different parts of the puzzle are now being put together.

    I have just launched my WSO yesterday and now I come to think about it, I could have offered it at a higher price.

    Anyway, this is a really useful thread.

    Thanks, warriors.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      E. Brian Rose has inspired me to write this based on his other thread about Spoiled WF Children

      -Rob
      Originally Posted by ClementChee View Post

      I think I just read something related to this thread.

      They are talking about how the WSO buyers are spoiled. I guess the different parts of the puzzle are now being put together.

      I bet you are right...
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      Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
      Originally Posted by ClementChee View Post

      I think I just read something related to this thread.

      They are talking about how the WSO buyers are spoiled. I guess the different parts of the puzzle are now being put together.

      I have just launched my WSO yesterday and now I come to think about it, I could have offered it at a higher price.

      Anyway, this is a really useful thread.

      Thanks, warriors.
      It's not too late. You can log into your Warrior Plus account, go into "my listings" and edit / change the price. You can also add dynamic pricing to your pay button (totally optional of course) and have it go up in any increments you want based on how many you are selling. Just throwing it out there........

      RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    I don't think there is anything wrong with people giving away a ton of information for next to nothing - it's what the WSO forum is all about. A Warrior Special Offer is supposed to be something you would not usually find anywhere else for the price.

    Having said that I do agree that a lot of WSO's add fluff just to try and justify their price. I'm sick of opening a WSO and having to read through 10-15 pages of fluff about how the product creator came to be an Internet Marketer - no offense, but I don't care. Just tell me the information I paid for and I'll be the judge as to whether or not it was worth the money.

    As a product vendor myself I also know that providing as much detail as possible is going to massively reduce the amount of support requests you get. There is something to be said for keeping things simple but you also need to remember a large percentage of people buying WSO's are in the beginner to intermediate group and need almost everything spelled out for them.
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    • Profile picture of the author wtatlas
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      I don't think there is anything wrong with people giving away a ton of information for next to nothing - it's what the WSO forum is all about. A Warrior Special Offer is supposed to be something you would not usually find anywhere else for the price.

      Having said that I do agree that a lot of WSO's add fluff just to try and justify their price. I'm sick of opening a WSO and having to read through 10-15 pages of fluff about how the product creator came to be an Internet Marketer - no offense, but I don't care. Just tell me the information I paid for and I'll be the judge as to whether or not it was worth the money.

      As a product vendor myself I also know that providing as much detail as possible is going to massively reduce the amount of support requests you get. There is something to be said for keeping things simple but you also need to remember a large percentage of people buying WSO's are in the beginner to intermediate group and need almost everything spelled out for them.
      Exactly! This is what I didn't like about the OP's second point - "2. I want them to be entertained." Personally I'm not looking for entertainment when I buy a WSO - just information relevant to the situation. I want to be informed not entertained.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by wtatlas View Post

        Exactly! This is what I didn't like about the OP's second point - "2. I want them to be entertained." Personally I'm not looking for entertainment when I buy a WSO - just information relevant to the situation. I want to be informed not entertained.
        They are not mutually exclusive.

        Do you want to be informed in a cold, dry, clinical manner...or in a way that's engaging and interesting?

        All the best,
        Michael
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        "Ich bin en fuego!"
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        • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          They are not mutually exclusive.

          Do you want to be informed in a cold, dry, clinical manner...or in a way that's engaging and interesting?

          All the best,
          Michael
          That's what I'm getting at.

          If the information is presented in "grad student thesis style", trust me, a HUGE percentage of customers are going to go "YAWN" - boring.


          And if you still don't believe me, look at any TV show that is a documentary, such as Mythbusters - they do inform, but they also entertain.

          This is something that a lot of people miss. A majority of your buyers in any niche are bored out of their minds. Many of them have a boring, zombie like job, they are stressed out with family and finances, and really seek to escape.

          If you can make your products as entertaining of a read as it is informative, your buyers will love you all the more - because they turn into raving fans who want to hear your latest advice - AND be entertained by you.

          You can ignore this tidbit of advice if you want - but I have the data through my own sales that back it up. Entertainment wins.

          Rob
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

            If you can make your products as entertaining of a read as it is informative, you buyers will love you all the more - because they turn into raving fans who want to hear your latest advice - AND be entertained by you.

            You can ignore this tidbit of advice if you want - but I have the data through my own sales that back it up. Entertainment wins.

            Rob

            I have the same experience here.
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            • Profile picture of the author Bekah Howard
              Originally Posted by bwh1 View Post

              Well, doesn't WF makes money over the WSO's?

              Then they should have an interest to deliver quality to their users, even indirectly.

              If that doesn't cover the costs of the mods reviewing 120 WSO's daily, charge $100 bucks to post a WSO in stead of the $40 and you probably get rig of the crap.

              Even if there would be 100 WSO daily, with 100,- per WSO there will be 10k to pay a few mods per day (if the money will not have to be refunded).

              I'm on the list for that Job, charge only $20 to review a WSO

              G.
              G (bwh1),

              Trust me when I say you are not the first with this idea and you won't be the last. However, there are many problems with this solution.

              Just to list a few:

              1) Mods are volunteers, not paid employees.

              2) The Warrior Forum WSO section is an advertising platform, just like a newspaper classified ads section. We don't hold a newspaper responsible for the quality of goods or services they advertise because they just sold an ad. WSOs are already just as regulated (if not more) than newspaper ads, yet you're saying they aren't doing enough regulation.

              3) Higher prices doesn't directly mean more money (it's a basic rule of economics). If they raise the price by that much, the number of people running WSO will likely drop. The total income they make could plummet, even before even taking into account the new payroll expenses (and headaches).

              4) Services, classes, or basically anything released over time could no longer be offered. This one is huge. I've heard the argument "they can test-drive the service", but this requires a company or individual to offer a service (sometimes for weeks or even months) free of charge before being able to bring in any actual clients. If the service has any overhead costs, this can become way more than your average marketer can afford.

              5) With products being reviewed, the time it takes to release a WSO would go from mere hours to days (possibly even a week or more if there's a lot of large products). For people who have a WSO release schedule, this could throw off their marketing completely.

              These are just a few of the problems with ideas like this. I could keep on listing these, but this isn't the point of this thread. I only responded to your post because you're being very insistent on the idea without really looking at the implications.

              (Apologies for distracting from the actual point of the thread!)
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              • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                They are not mutually exclusive.

                Do you want to be informed in a cold, dry, clinical manner...or in a way that's engaging and interesting?

                All the best,
                Michael
                Originally Posted by wtatlas View Post

                Hello Michael,

                I know, of course, that they're not mutually exclusive. Nor, if they're not entertaining, do they have to be cold, dry and clinical. They can be written in a warm and friendly manner and be engaging and interesting but that isn't what I would define as entertaining.

                Perhaps different views on what is entertaining and the extent to which the "entertainment factor" creeps in is the problem. I recently read a WSO, (possibly the same one as WillR), where the author felt he had to inject his own personality into the material to the point where it became very tedious to read and my mind was distracted from the actual point of what I was reading. Some people have a knack for writing in an entertaining fashion and know where to draw the line but many don't.

                Give me cold, dry and clinical and to the point every time!!

                Regards,


                George Cuthbert

                P.S. I would include ccmusicman and tpw in the "those that can write in an entertaining way and know where the line is category" as I have purchased WSOs from both of them!
                I think this is just a cultural difference. Americans love to be entertained. They love all of the razzmatazz, the bells, the whistles, and all the rest of it.

                The British on the other hand, we find all of that completely unnecessary. Just the other day I was listening to an interview of a top marketer. The guy conducting the interview, you know how long it took him just to get to the first bit of meat in the discussion? 28 bloody minutes...

                'Rah rahhh RAHHH RAHHHHH rah'...

                ...after 10 minutes I was holding my head in my hands in abject despair. After another 5 minutes, I was muttering quite a few choice words under my breath. 25 minutes in, I just wanted to reach through the monitor and strangle the guy. I was literally talking to my monitor, "Get to the bleedin' point man, get to the friggin' point you ass, GET TO THE BLOODY POINT!" Talk about rattling on and and on and on and on and onnn and onnnnn. GRRRRR.

                An hour long interview which, (I timed it,) could have been condensed into a total of 7 minutes conversation. The gentleman being interviewed was interrupted non-stop, the interviewee was going off on tangents, he literally drove me quite mad.

                An American documentary style is vastly different to a UK TV documentary. I've lived in both countries and for me, I prefer the British way of doing it hands down every time. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Just one hard hitting fact after another. No preamble, go straight for the jugular. That's what I like. This is what I'm used to. American documentaries are embarrassingly bad by comparison.

                But as I said, it's what works that counts. Everyone has their preferences. There is no right or wrong way. Some like to stretch out every single last point, others love those elongated introductions whilst others like to get the facts down very quickly.

                It all depends on your subject matter and your target audience and if in doubt, just be yourself. Let your personality shine through. Some won't like it. That's cool. Others will love it. Better. And every point in-between.

                Best,


                Mark Andrews
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                • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                  Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

                  'Rah rahhh RAHHH RAHHHHH rah'...
                  Are you the guy I was going to come and visit that used to go by the name of Pete?

                  Whilst I'm on, Rob, I bought your $5 "new" bum marketing book and it was still worth more than $5 all day and the upsell was worth way more than what you were charging.

                  It was very good too.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                    Are you the guy I was going to come and visit that used to go by the name of Pete?
                    Yes Richard.

                    When are you and DarkWitness going to pull your finger out of your a***s and get yourselves down here for that BBQ as promised?

                    At this rate, the mackerel season will be over. Bring a couple of tents with you. See you at Pedn Vounder.

                    Give me a shout when you're coming down the pair of you. Ought to try and get a few others down as well. Exrat, one or two other Cornish Warriors and have a darn good chinwag around a decent campfire for a weekend.

                    You guys up for it?

                    Chin chin!


                    Mark
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                    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                      Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

                      Yes Richard.

                      When are you and DarkWitness going to pull your finger out of your a****s and get yourselves down here for that BBQ as promised?

                      At this rate, the mackerel season will be over. Bring a couple of tents with you. See you at Pedn Vounder.

                      Give me a shout when you're coming down the pair of you. Ought to try and get a few others down as well. Exrat, one or two other Cornish Warriors and have a darn good chinwag around a decent campfire for a weekend.

                      You guys up for it?

                      Chin chin!


                      Mark
                      Hahaaa! I'm hopefully meeting Frank for a pint or two Saturday week in London.

                      If we can get Roger (ExRat) in as well we can have a great one, he's a top chap.

                      I thought someone had nicked your photo for a second, that's why I asked!

                      Buy some Mackerel and get it in the freezer chap, just in case. I have a nice tent so no worries there.

                      I'll send you a PM to discuss dates.

                      Apologies others for dragging this OT.
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          • Profile picture of the author lotsofsnow
            Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

            Entertainment wins.
            This is exactly what it is all about.

            You can get all the information that your need elsewhere.

            Put it together, add some nice pictures and a story and you have a product.

            If it is snappy and to the point it tends to sell like hot cakes.
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        • Profile picture of the author wtatlas
          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          They are not mutually exclusive.

          Do you want to be informed in a cold, dry, clinical manner...or in a way that's engaging and interesting?

          All the best,
          Michael
          Hello Michael,

          I know, of course, that they're not mutually exclusive. Nor, if they're not entertaining, do they have to be cold, dry and clinical. They can be written in a warm and friendly manner and be engaging and interesting but that isn't what I would define as entertaining.

          Perhaps different views on what is entertaining and the extent to which the "entertainment factor" creeps in is the problem. I recently read a WSO, (possibly the same one as WillR), where the author felt he had to inject his own personality into the material to the point where it became very tedious to read and my mind was distracted from the actual point of what I was reading. Some people have a knack for writing in an entertaining fashion and know where to draw the line but many don't.

          Give me cold, dry and clinical and to the point every time!!

          Regards,


          George Cuthbert

          P.S. I would include ccmusicman and tpw in the "those that can write in an entertaining way and know where the line is category" as I have purchased WSOs from both of them!
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Michael,

          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          They are not mutually exclusive.

          Do you want to be informed in a cold, dry, clinical manner...or in a way that's engaging and interesting?

          All the best,
          Michael
          First one please. I agree with Mark, it must be a cultural thing. When I pay for business advice, I want nothing but business-like business advice - anything else gets in the way - IE - the seller is putting time and energy into entertainment, and I'm paying for that, but I don't want entertainment.

          I want to earn money to buy entertainment, for which I go elsewhere.

          Hi Rob,

          And if you still don't believe me, look at any TV show that is a documentary, such as Mythbusters - they do inform, but they also entertain.

          This is something that a lot of people miss. A majority of your buyers in any niche are bored out of their minds.
          It's something I miss - I don't usually watch TV! But if I do, it would be a decent documentary - but the attempts at entertainment within them drive me nuts!

          We are talking about the IM niche here, yes?

          If the information is presented in "grad student thesis style", trust me, a HUGE percentage of customers are going to go "YAWN" - boring.
          But what if people's attempts to entertain within IM products are boring?

          Again, it must be a culture thing. But don't get me wrong, we have a sense of humour over here.
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          • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Hi Michael,



            First one please. I agree with Mark, it must be a cultural thing. When I pay for business advice, I want nothing but business-like business advice - anything else gets in the way - IE - the seller is putting time and energy into entertainment, and I'm paying for that, but I don't want entertainment.

            I want to earn money to buy entertainment, for which I go elsewhere.
            But you already run a successful business - I think that, and this is no insult to buyers of WSO's, a majority of these buyers are more akin to hobbyist's and people who enjoy consuming the information.

            Some of them will apply it and grow beyond.

            But most of these people are wanting entertained, to some degree. You don't fit the bill of a typical WSO buyer. But in my experience, for the general WSO buyer crowd, entertainment helps sell it.

            Rob
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            • Profile picture of the author ExRat
              Hi Rob,

              You don't fit the bill of a typical WSO buyer.
              I hope not! Good point.
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            • Profile picture of the author FredJones
              @Rob: Loved reading your recent WSO on getting cheap articels written (purchased couple of days back from Sudeshna's Paypal). And yes, the length and the style were impressive, and rings out what you are talking about in this thread. Loved it, and can see you have clearly got a good grasp on the style.

              Yes, I felt that way - the read is fast, it tells me clearly and crisply how to get those cheap articles written (which is what I had bought the WSO for) without wasting a single minute of my time, and yes I loved it.

              Excellent post.
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              $2.95 GoDaddy .com domains today: Click here.
              I am offering a free website - get it now (and they offer you a free domain with this).
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              • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
                Originally Posted by FredJones View Post

                @Rob: Loved reading your recent WSO on getting cheap articels written (purchased couple of days back from Sudeshna's Paypal). And yes, the length and the style were impressive, and rings out what you are talking about in this thread. Loved it, and can see you have clearly got a good grasp on the style.

                Yes, I felt that way - the read is fast, it tells me clearly and crisply how to get those cheap articles written (which is what I had bought the WSO for) without wasting a single minute of my time, and yes I loved it.

                Excellent post.
                Thanks Fred. You're going to see a LOT of that coming out of me now that I "figured it out". It only took 3 years, but eh, sometimes I can be a slow learner. lol

                Rob
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          • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post


            Hi Rob,



            It's something I miss - I don't watch TV! We are talking about the IM niche here, yes?
            Yes - and in my post above, I highlight exactly what the typical WSO buyer wants.

            We are talking closer to mass market stuff - not intense business learning here.

            Let's think about the demand. The biggest selling WSO's have these promises - either implied or direct:

            - Little to no work
            - Simple, easy to follow
            - Push button

            Allen talks about this in the War Room - true mass market "make money" products don't deal building websites, split testing, backlinking...we are already fairly far removed from the mass appeal - BUT...

            A majority of people coming into the whole "mmo" niche are just now learning about building websites and backlinking. To them, that still seems "beyond" what they are capable of.

            So they have a "mass market" mindset - easy, push button, simple.


            There is a way to fulfill this market, without ripping them off, and without doing grandiose BS promises.

            These short hotsheets/reports.

            Make them both entertaining to read, short, punchy, with real, HELPFUL information, and the general WSO masses will eat them up.

            Rob
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Hi Michael,



            First one please. I agree with Mark, it must be a cultural thing. When I pay for business advice, I want nothing but business-like business advice - anything else gets in the way - IE - the seller is putting time and energy into entertainment, and I'm paying for that, but I don't want entertainment.

            I want to earn money to buy entertainment, for which I go elsewhere.
            Perhaps we are getting hung up on semantics here. Think of a book like "How to Win Friends and Influence People". I would consider it entertaining because Dale Carnegie uses relevant stories to illustrate his points. Sure, he could have stuck to all of the clinical pieces of advice, but it would have been boring, and not the perennial bestseller it is today.

            When I say 'entertainment' in this context, I mean it as the opposite of boredom. I'm not saying I want videos of juggling bears doing cartwheels while singing "Waltzing Matilda".

            BUT...I also don't want to feel like it's drudgery to have to read one more sentence.

            I honestly don't believe that what Im talking about is a cultural thing, especially after reading your and Mark's posts.

            Dry and boring vs. interesting and engaging. If you say you prefer the former as I've explained it here, then I have a hard time believing that, OR I'm not able to comprehend it.

            One more quick thought: If you take out ALL of the "entertainment" and "personality", then why buy anything from one seller over another? You would be dealing with nothing but facts with no frame of reference.

            So, it doesn't have to be bells, whistle and flash, but a bit of personality (not over the top, but at least having a unique voice) is fine with me.

            All the best,
            Michael
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            • Profile picture of the author ExRat
              Hi Michael,

              Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

              Perhaps we are getting hung up on semantics here....
              Yeah, there's probably an element of that involved.

              One more quick thought: If you take out ALL of the "entertainment" and "personality", then why buy anything from one seller over another? You would be dealing with nothing but facts with no frame of reference.
              That's an easy answer - I make that choice because I have learnt that the person really knows their stuff, will overdeliver and (ironically) will not annoy me by wasting any of my time by fluffing the thing out with either fluff or unwanted entertainment

              I guess my answer to these things might change depending on the type of subject contained within the information product.

              But if I want to learn as much as possible (which is usually the case) and have a learning curve that I know I am going to have to endure without buying the product, cut down for me by the person sharing their experiences, then entertainment is only going to get in my way and as I said earlier - I will know that where that entertainment is, there could have been actionable info in it's place.

              Them: give me your money and I'll show you how to do XYZ

              Me: Here's my money, now show me how to do XYZ

              To me, there's no need for anything else from that point onwards except telling me how to do XYZ, so that I learn to do it as quickly as possible and learn to do it well.

              I think it's worth referring back to Rob's comment - I'm not the typical buyer and I see fluff where others see useful stuff, due to years of learning online - I've heard a lot of the generic stuff over and over and over.

              For example, I have bought some WSOs that have annoyed me recently - one of which was one which needlessly reiterated (in slightly different words) the long sales letter as the first chapter of the book. The problem is that I nearly always read every word of a salesletter so that I know exactly what to expect, so to have to skim past it AND know that it was fluffing out the info I paid for was annoying.

              I'm not the ideal customer unless the person is good at getting straight to the point and delivering the goods. :rolleyes: And I guess I'm not in the happiest mood when I have to trust someone and spend money as well, so their attempts at entertainment are likely to fall flat.

              Just ignore me, I'm not a typical WSO buyer and therefore my input is kind of irrelevant I'll shut up now.

              Hi Richard,

              I'll send you a PM to discuss dates.
              Let me know what you come up with and when and I'll let you know if I can join in.
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              • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
                Originally Posted by ExRat View Post


                I'm not the ideal customer unless the person is good at getting straight to the point and delivering the goods. :rolleyes: And I guess I'm not in the happiest mood when I have to trust someone and spend money as well, so their attempts at entertainment are likely to fall flat.
                I'm going to design a product for your type of buyer and I think the sales page angle will be along the lines of...

                "This Content is So Dry that You'll Need to Oil Up To Prevent Chafing"

                Rob
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                • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                  Hi Rob,

                  Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

                  I'm going to design a product for your type of buyer and I think the sales page angle will be along the lines of...

                  "This Content is So Dry that You'll Need to Oil Up To Prevent Chafing"
                  Not bad, almost. How about -

                  Guaranteed 0% fluff, just pure, actionable, valuable, hard-won info.

                  Hi Brian,

                  I must admit, I'm not sure that this thread promotes 'best practices.'

                  But when you said -

                  And instead of 100 WSOs being submitted each day, now there are 500.
                  ...I swear I heard Allen lighting up a celebratory Cuban
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                  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                    Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

                    Hi Rob,

                    Not bad, almost. How about -

                    Guaranteed 0% fluff, just pure, actionable, valuable, hard-won info.
                    My point is that it can still be delivered in a way that isn't dry, dull and boring.

                    What am I missing here?

                    All the best,
                    Michael
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                    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                      Hi Michael,

                      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                      My point is that it can still be delivered in a way that isn't dry, dull and boring.

                      What am I missing here?

                      All the best,
                      Michael
                      Nothing, it's just semantics as you said.

                      I think you're saying the same as John -

                      the videos in that course were definitely not dry, but I didn't notice anything that looked like fluff, either.

                      As I commented in the review, I felt like I was watching a very competent teacher talking about a subject they had some passion for. Your enthusiasm for getting the subject across made what could have been very dry and boring (like defining job descriptions) and made it interesting. Even entertaining.
                      That suits me too.

                      Hi bizlinkx,

                      If you offer something of true value for a reasonable price, you can attract the right people and cut down on returns, while weeding out those who really want to start a business and those who are just looking around for the opportunity that requires the least effort.
                      I agree with you and I have the same attitude as you, but it seems that what a lot of people are saying is that what happens in the WSO forum is that if you take that approach, you struggle to attract the right people because -

                      a) there are not enough of them

                      b) you get lost amongst those catering to the others, with their attention grabbing, sizzle-laden (IE outrageous) titles

                      You said -

                      I know a lot of people who get their first piece of success then they relax, get comfy and their business goes to hell. They simply don't have the right mentality for lasting success.
                      ...you know a lot of those - well in the WSO forum (apparently) there are a hell of a lot of them.
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                • Profile picture of the author tpw
                  Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

                  I'm going to design a product for your type of buyer and I think the sales page angle will be along the lines of...

                  "This Content is So Dry that You'll Need to Oil Up To Prevent Chafing"

                  Rob

                  I have often thought about testing such copy, but then I know that the majority of buyers are not like Roger... So the copy will FAIL with everyone but Roger...
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              • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
                The "Major way to improve the WSO section" is to take a $17 WSO and chop it up into smaller WSOs that deliver less value to the consumer - at the same $17 price for each smaller report.

                I am not following the logic here.

                More like, how to bring further destruction to the WSO section by unleashing even more $7, 10-page "hot sheets" that it only took someone 2 hours to prepare.

                And instead of 100 WSOs being submitted each day, now there are 500.

                .
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                • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
                  Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

                  The "Major way to improve the WSO section" is to take a $17 WSO and chop it up into smaller WSOs that deliver less value to the consumer - at the same $17 price for each smaller report.

                  I am not following the logic here.

                  More like, how to bring further destruction to the WSO section by unleashing even more $7, 10-page "hot sheets" that it only took someone 2 hours to prepare.

                  And instead of 100 WSOs being submitted each day, now there are 500.

                  .
                  This was my initial thinking. I'm not following the "improvement" piece. Instead of getting a "SEO Secrets" ebook for $7, you're getting a shortened version of the book telling you to buy the longer version for a much higher price.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
                    Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post

                    Instead of getting a "SEO Secrets" ebook for $7, you're getting a shortened version of the book telling you to buy the longer version for a much higher price.
                    Where in the world are you getting this idea that people are buying a salesletter?

                    I think you are skimming over and neglecting the point I made:

                    "TRULY HELPFUL INFO".

                    And the upsell being more detailed, related info for those who want it.

                    Ryan, I'm seeing lots of gross generalizations from your "limited experience", which you freely admit too - I say that your perceptions of what this strategy is all about is way off. Either you haven't been hearing what I'm saying or you are choosing to ignore it. Regardless, you seem to be holding to this idea that I'm advocating selling crappy products. I'm not.

                    However, you are free to continue to have that perception. It's your right. For those who get it, however, they can experience better success with their WSO's. That was my point. Vendors help people better. Make more money in the process by making better products more fit for the price point.

                    Rob
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                    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

                      Ryan, I'm seeing lots of gross generalizations from your "limited experience", which you freely admit too - I say that your perceptions of what this strategy is all about is way off. Either you haven't been hearing what I'm saying or you are choosing to ignore it. Regardless, you seem to be holding to this idea that I'm advocating selling crappy products. I'm not.
                      Rob,

                      I don't think Ryan is referring directly to you and more to what he see's on a general basis from a lot of other members as Brian has mentioned too.

                      As I said, you're a respected member that does provide value, I just think he's addressing others that are taking advantage of it.

                      I could be wrong though, so will as always stand corrected if need be.

                      EDIT - My initial thoughts were that a product had to be available elsewhere but I can also see how having an offer only available to Warriors and not outside the forum, is also technically a special offer to Warriors or a WSO.

                      So I'll politely back away and have a glass of Vino I think and get the popcorn on.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
                        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                        Rob,

                        I don't think Ryan is referring directly to you and more to what he see's on a general basis from a lot of other members as Brian has mentioned too.
                        If that is the case Ryan, I apologize for misinterpreting your post.

                        I have purchased WSO's that were basically sales pages for the upsell and those are garbage.

                        Those type of people will always be chasing money, however. If you provide value, you form a reputation and around that value you, your products will do well and will be well received.

                        My mistake when I was first started running WSO's was that I had to "up the value" to the point of ridiculousness. Lots of videos and pdf's and mindmaps. I figured "I want to provide vale" - and that was the way to do it.

                        So I created the reputation that I'm the guy that does 7 to 17 dollar massive products.

                        Since I've gained that reputation, I've had to find a way to avoid burnout while also avoiding the sticker shock problem.

                        I know this is the situation for a lot of sellers who are concerned about value. The easiest solution - the one that requires the least amount of retooling and training your lists, is to break down the products into sizeable chunks that really help people. They are happier, you don't undersell yourself, and you are up and running faster.

                        This was my entire point of the post.

                        Rob
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                      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                        Rob, a couple of things for you...

                        > You missed one more major advantage of your current practice. You bring people like me back into your market. I may not want the whole mega package, but I might be very interested in one chunk of it that fits hand in glove with what I already do.

                        > Dry, no-nonsense vs. padding and fluff isn't a heads/tails issue. Take your product on outsourcing that I reviewed. The videos in that course were definitely not dry, but I didn't notice anything that looked like fluff, either.

                        As I commented in the review, I felt like I was watching a very competent teacher talking about a subject they had some passion for. Your enthusiasm for getting the subject across made what could have been very dry and boring (like defining job descriptions) and made it interesting. Even entertaining.

                        Was it Benny Hill? No. Was it entertaining? Yes. Did it deliver what it promised? Yes, again.
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      • Profile picture of the author AdwordsMogul
        Originally Posted by wtatlas View Post

        Exactly! This is what I didn't like about the OP's second point - "2. I want them to be entertained." Personally I'm not looking for entertainment when I buy a WSO - just information relevant to the situation. I want to be informed not entertained.
        Well, you're probably in the minority.

        As a matter of fact, many people buy WSO for entertainment, but don't even know it. How can you tell?

        Because they read it, feel like "This could work for me", fantasize for a while, maybe even do the first step... then it's on to the next one.

        It's just the reality of things.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
    To me that doesn't seem to be the purpose of the WSO forum or maybe it has multiple purposes.

    Here's what I always took it as. Back in 2006 when I was a lurker, I came across a WSO for Brad Callen's SEO Elite. It retailed for $147, WSO for $97. The offer was expired, but I emailed him and asked him for that price and he honored it.

    That's a special offer to warriors. You sell it elsewhere for $100, you sell it here for $50.

    It sounds like people create products specifically for the WSO and the prices they can fetch are much too low for their liking. I wonder how many people even sell the WSO elsewhere...or if it's not a WSO..more like "An Offer".

    I don't know. I can see if from the sellers standpoint, but it'll probably sour more people on the entire WSO forum.

    Books like "The E-Myth Revisited", "Ultimate Sales Machine" and "The Goal: Theory of Contraints" all are $10 books that introduce the reader to a bigger upsell (consulting or whatever). But they all stand alone as good sources of material.

    It sounds like people would be paying for a salesletter for your product and to get on the list.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post

      To me that doesn't seem to be the purpose of the WSO forum or maybe it has multiple purposes.

      Here's what I always took it as. Back in 2006 when I was a lurker, I came across a WSO for Brad Callen's SEO Elite. It retailed for $147, WSO for $97. The offer was expired, but I emailed him and asked him for that price and he honored it.

      That's a special offer to warriors. You sell it elsewhere for $100, you sell it here for $50.

      It sounds like people create products specifically for the WSO and the prices they can fetch are much too low for their liking. I wonder how many people even sell the WSO elsewhere...or if it's not a WSO..more like "An Offer".

      I don't know. I can see if from the sellers standpoint, but it'll probably sour more people on the entire WSO forum.
      Hi Ryan,

      I noticed in the "Have we shot ourselves in the foot thread" you had a very indepth knowledge of the WSO section for a guy that's been a member for 3 weeks.

      Reading that comment makes sense - You must be the longest serving lurker here chap.

      You have a good point there too.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        Hi Ryan,

        I noticed in the "Have we shot ourselves in the foot thread" you had a very indepth knowledge of the WSO section for a guy that's been a member for 3 weeks.

        Reading that comment makes sense - You must be the longest serving lurker here chap.
        I read WF a lot when I first got started, then I got busy with kids and my sites and stopped really reading too much IM stuff, specifially message boards. Too much procrastinating in my blood. Now I'm back with a vengeance

        By the way, not claiming to be an expert but speaking from my limited experience there.. I find it very over-stimulating to read that forum, but I remembered the SEO Elite offer and found it to fit with what I perceived the idea of the forum to be
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post

          By the way, not claiming to be an expert but speaking from my limited experience there.. I find it very over-stimulating to read that forum, but I remembered the SEO Elite offer and found it to fit with what I perceived the idea of the forum to be
          Sorry Ryan, you've lost me there fella. :confused:
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          • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            Sorry Ryan, you've lost me there fella. :confused:
            Just referencing my initial experience in the WSO forum a number of years back. Product sold for $147 on clickbank, lowered to $97 and offered in the WSO. At the time it was a best selling clickbank product. That's kinda my basis for comparison.

            Over-stimulating in the sense that there are lots of ALL CAPS and crazy headlines in one spot.
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post

              Just referencing my initial experience in the WSO forum a number of years back. Product sold for $147 on clickbank, lowered to $97 and offered in the WSO. At the time it was a best selling clickbank product. That's kinda my basis for comparison.

              Over-stimulating in the sense that there are lots of ALL CAPS and crazy headlines in one spot.
              Sorry chap, I just wasn't getting the connection between SEO Elite and our chat. I read it a few times and realised I was having one of my baffled moments .

              I understand now.

              I must admit, I do think things have changed since I arrived here. To be honest, I only buy things I either need to learn about and even then they will either be recommended to me by someone I have a relationship with or the said person will have written it themselves.

              Nice to meet you anyway Ryan.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
      Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post

      To me that doesn't seem to be the purpose of the WSO forum or maybe it has multiple purposes.
      WSO = Warrior Special Offer.

      If the product is only available to warriors, then it is a special offer. If you choose to release to the general public later, it's a more expensive offer.

      This has already been sanctioned and approved by the "big wigs" up top.

      Who says it's a sales letter? Did you read Fred's comment above? I show them exactly one thing well.

      And that is EXACTLY what Ultimate Sales Letter and the E-Myth does. One thing WELL. So it classifies as exactly what I'm talking about.

      Rob
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      • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
        Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

        WSO = Warrior Special Offer.

        If the product is only available to warriors, then it is a special offer. If you choose to release to the general public later, it's a more expensive offer.

        This has already been sanctioned and approved by the "big wigs" up top.

        Who says it's a sales letter? Did you read Fred's comment above? I show them exactly one thing well.

        And that is EXACTLY what Ultimate Sales Letter and the E-Myth does. One thing WELL. So it classifies as exactly what I'm talking about.

        Rob
        I'm just going off the description "A Special Offer means making Warriors a deal like no others get. Usually that comes in the form of a much lower price."

        I take "lower price" to mean that you're offering it elsewhere now. I guess if they clarified, then I stand corrected.

        But don't necessarily agree with a 10 page report being on par with a 300 page book.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
          Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post

          But don't necessarily agree with a 10 page report being on par with a 300 page book.
          Then you're making the mistake I made when I first started offering WSO's. Equating size with value.

          It isn't.

          You yourself said in another thread - what the market is willing to pay is what its worth.

          So if I run a WSO at 7 dollars, that's 10 to 40 pages in length, and the customers are happy with it, then wouldn't you say that it is worth it?

          Again, I'm not just making this up.

          This comes from LOTS of testing and experience.

          I've had almost 5000 people buy WSO's from me, running across many many WSO's, and the ones that are shorter, to the point, cover one thing well, have gotten twice the positive comments, reviews and testimonials (without asking for them) than other, larger WSO's with the same price. They have also sold more.

          In any event, you can THINK what you want to think all day long. But until you've done it, tested it, and tried it, thinking and doing are two very different things.

          Rob
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          • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
            Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

            Then you're making the mistake I made when I first started offering WSO's. Equating sizewith value.

            It isn't.

            You yourself said in another thread - what the market is willing to pay is what its worth.

            So if I run a WSO at 7 dollars, that's 10 to 40 pages in length, and the customers are happy with it, then wouldn't you say that it is worth it?

            Again, I'm not just making this up.

            This comes from LOTS of testing and experience.

            I've had almost 5000 people buy WSO's from me, running across many many WSO's, and the ones that are shorter, to the point, cover one thing well, have gotten twice the positive comments, reviews and testimonials (without asking for them) than other, larger WSO's with the same price. They have also sold more.

            In any event, you can THINK what you want to think all day long. But until you've done it, tested it, and tried it, thinking and doing are two very different things.

            Rob
            If people will buy it, then have at it.

            Like I said, maybe my idea of what the WSO is for is different.

            I view it as "Product Price less Warrior Discount"

            Not necessarily creating a product to match the average price-point of the forum.

            And I didn't equate "Size" with "Value". I was basing my comments off your description of this at work. "One of the biggest problems in the WSO section has to do with sellers, in essence, building these massive products worth 100+ bucks and then giving it away, basically, for 5 to 10 bucks. "

            To me it just reminds me of what you get at the dollar store. You're not going to get the bulk product that's sold at Sams Club/Costco, you're going to get a smaller one that fits with the theme of the store.

            Is it a deal? Or is it something that fits the price point of the place you're selling it?
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

            Again, I'm not just making this up.

            This comes from LOTS of testing and experience.

            I've had almost 5000 people buy WSO's from me, running across many many WSO's, and the ones that are shorter, to the point, cover one thing well, have gotten twice the positive comments, reviews and testimonials (without asking for them) than other, larger WSO's with the same price. They have also sold more.

            This is so true!!

            The bigger, more comprehensive WSO's seldom get a lot of reviews added to them.

            Why? Because either people did not finish consuming the product or they could not find the thread to comment after the several hours/days it took them to consume the product.

            Thread opens are high in the first few hours after posting the WSO, and naturally start dropping off after the first day...

            Yet, to get the testimonials you need to sell the product in volume, you need good reviews coming in quickly.

            The shorter amount of time required to consume the product, the more likely one will get the reviews/testimonials needed to sell the product.

            In one of our recent WSO's, it contained 3.5 hours of content. When we released the WSO, a few early sales went quickly.

            Then we waited for the reviews. The reviews started coming 4 hours after the product release, and the reviews continued coming in over a few days.

            All reviews were top notch, and they did influence more sales...

            But...

            The vast majority of people who were going to look at the product only looked at it, before the reviews started coming in about the product.

            They did not come back later to see what the reviews looked like. Maybe they assumed that because their were no reviews after a few hours that there were going to be no reviews to be seen later.
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            • Profile picture of the author Suellen Reitz
              Originally Posted by tpw View Post

              This is so true!!

              The bigger, more comprehensive WSO's seldom get a lot of reviews added to them.

              Why? Because either people did not finish consuming the product or they could not find the thread to comment after the several hours/days it took them to consume the product.

              Thread opens are high in the first few hours after posting the WSO, and naturally start dropping off after the first day...

              Yet, to get the testimonials you need to sell the product in volume, you need good reviews coming in quickly.

              The shorter amount of time required to consume the product, the more likely one will get the reviews/testimonials needed to sell the product.

              In one of our recent WSO's, it contained 3.5 hours of content. When we released the WSO, a few early sales went quickly.

              Then we waited for the reviews. The reviews started coming 4 hours after the product release, and the reviews continued coming in over a few days.

              All reviews were top notch, and they did influence more sales...

              But...

              The vast majority of people who were going to look at the product only looked at it, before the reviews started coming in about the product.

              They did not come back later to see what the reviews looked like. Maybe they assumed that because their were no reviews after a few hours that there were going to be no reviews to be seen later.
              Hi Bill,
              Great point there. With so many WSO's being added each day, it can be hard to find the original thread unless you subscribe to it! But as for getting the reviews back hours later, I've seen some get their reviews before the product ever hits the forum as a WSO! This seems like a great strategy to me. Gives you time to pick the best and put them inside your sales letter before it is ever seen.
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  • Profile picture of the author Selmicro
    I agree 100% with everything you say and I'll throw another idea into the mix.

    Limit OTO's to 1 simple offer instead of running a willing buyer thru a gauntlet of offers and forcing them to signup with their email address (register) even befroe they get to the download link.

    One of the problems I have experienced is broken OTO's that lead you into never never land and you never get back to get a download link. Most of these trips were saved with the emailed download link, but a few have even used the download links to drive even more OTO's so we end up going around and around and never getting a download link.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Brian, I'm not referring to those WSO's.

    I'm referring to the WSO's that provide value - massive value already - and instead of raising the price and risk sticker shock from the WSO forum, keep the price the same and break the content up into smaller bit sized chunks.

    Still valuable. Still helpful.

    I've asked myself this in the past - how can I increase customer value?

    See, when I had 20+ videos, most of the customers never got past video 2. When I instead focused on ONE thing, and did it WELL, my customers got more out of their purchase because they were able to consume it in a short setting.

    They actually were happier! Which means they buy more, which means I increase my value per customer overall. (Because they buy 10 reports instead of 1 product)

    The other option is to increase the price and up the value.

    But were do you go with a course that is already 20+ video's? 50 videos for another 10 dollars?

    Part of the problem is, for me, is that I equated size of product with value. And thus, I didn't feel that my 20 videos was really worth more than 30 dollars.

    So I started off CHEAP. And thus, I trained my buyers that my stuff is always under 20 bucks.

    To avoid sticker shock, instead of just raising the prices across the board, I instead modified the product to give more value, in less space, in less time it takes to market.

    I can now keep the prices the same, avoid sticker shock, retrain my buyers that if they want larger, more valuable courses, they must pay for it, and they are happier with the smaller purchases.

    This has come about through a LOT of testing and experience of running WSO's. I'm not just making this up, promise.

    Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author JD Jens
    I think one reason you're seeing a lot of "mega-packages" for $5-$10 is because people are chasing the WSO of the Day. It's ends up being a great value for Warriors and that's a good thing. Successful businesses have been following the "high value for a low price" model for literally centuries and it's what most of us here are trying to do. I do get what the OP is saying though, you can still offer great value without selling yourself short.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by Free Time View Post

      I think one reason you're seeing a lot of "mega-packages" for $5-$10 is because people are chasing the WSO of the Day. It's ends up being a great value for Warriors and that's a good thing. Successful businesses have been following the "high value for a low price" model for literally centuries and it's what most of us here are trying to do. I do get what the OP is saying though, you can still offer great value without selling yourself short.
      To be honest, I think there's a big difference to what Rob does and what a large percentage of sellers are doing and like you said Free Time, you can offer value without selling yourself short, which Rob does well.

      I have only bought one thing from Rob, it was very cheap and it was about 30-40 pages but it was good, didn't contain fluff (Roger take note) and I learned from it. Which incidentally left me feeling I'd bought something of value, like a pint of beer and a similar cost too.

      On the other hand I've bought things for more than Robs book that I wouldn't expect to see in printed form in a public toilet.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizlinkx
    I don't believe the products should be sold so cheaply. If a product is worth its weight in gold it should be sold for a reasonable price. I also believe in creating products that work and offer entrepreneurs the greatest chance for success.

    As an entrepreneur I believe in hard work and I believe that all aspiring business owners should learn the value of working hard. The product or service doesn't need to be hard to do but the mindset of the person who buys your product should be of hard work.

    It seems that many people are looking for the easiest thing they can do, the thing that requires the least effort, but that doesn't make sense. If your ever going to be a successful business owner you have to have the right mindset.

    I mean, if you cant succeed doing the simplest task, our programs, what happens when your business calls for more effort from you. The rewards of success are great but I dont know of any truly great success that came to someone without hardwork and dedication.

    The WSO's doesn't have to be hard to do but the mindset of the person doing it must be right if they are going to be successful in the long term.

    I know a lot of people who get their first piece of success then they relax, get comfy and their business goes to hell. They simply don't have the right mentality for lasting success.

    If you offer something of true value for a reasonable price, you can attract the right people and cut down on returns, while weeding out those who really want to start a business and those who are just looking around for the opportunity that requires the least effort.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Roger just said it.

    Attracting people like Roger and other serious business owners who would be willing to pay more for high quality, informative business building material really don't tread much in the WSO forum.

    Sure they are there - but there numbers are REALLY low. And grabbing their attention is a little harder to do.

    Now, is it impossible? Heck no. It's just going to require a lot more work in the WSO section. A LOT more. You'll need to advertise outside the forum as well as leverage things like Banner Ads and affiliates who target these people too.

    To me, an easier approach is to cast a wide net, bring in a lot of people, then use your buyers funnel to get people into the higher priced, and more business oriented products. But that's just me. I started that way, I already have built up resources, so why switch directions?

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author FredJones
      Lot of good discussion here combined with cross-communication.

      Let me say one more thing - the attention span for most people is short, extremely short. The amount that most human brains can digest together and sensibly is also small. In fact, the human brain is way better in concretely digesting short solid pills compared to trying to cover the boundaries of a massive castle along with knowing every single house inside the castle. Like it or not, that's how the human brain works.

      So quite often, there are a high number of people who are interested to learn a particular segment and don't want all of it. And quite often there are people who don't know what to learn (mostly too new for it), but if they take solid baby steps they are going to cover their first and the next and the next ... mile.

      Hence, writing short solid material makes sense. It helps buyers. It helps sellers too.

      Take my case with buying the WSO from Rob I mentioned above.

      Who thinks that I would have purchased it if it was another book on digital product creation? Forget it. Right now I am not interested in creating digital products, and oh yeah I know getting my material written inexpensively would help me.

      Who thinks I would have bought it if it had 40 videos that would take me 8 hours to watch? Forget it. I know (at my IM career stage) most of what I want to do, and I really don't want to invest (waste?) a whole working day of 8 hours just for 1 video. Just forget it, it does not make business sense for me.

      Who thinks I would have purchased it if it told me how to get articles written inexpensively, if I were looking to create products for rock-bottom investments and knew I would need articles written for that? I would buy it for sure.

      Who thinks that I would have bought it if it had 1 video that takes me 20 minutes to watch and tells me exactly how to do that one thing which I want to do? You bet I would seriously consider buying it.

      So it is about solving problems for people. Agree, if I am a newbie and don't know what to do then a complete guide would be nice for me. But then, do I have the REAL money to fund the golden price that it has been placed on? Being a newbie, probably no. And do I have the crappy money of $7 to fund it? Yes, sure - but wait - for $7, being a product creator+seller, who would want to create a product that would burn out the creator of the product?

      So given the situation, what Rob says makes sense - plain business sense following market dynamics - both to buyers and sellers of the digital product.

      I am not saying that high prices digital products are not welcome. They definitely are. But for that, you would probably want to have a number of things in place - people who have sold high-priced digital products definitely know what I am talking about and people who have bought high-priced digital products *may or may not* know what I am talking about. Now go and apply your own senses - not going to silver-platter this out to you - where (to which portion of the market) and how to sell high-priced digital products with what sort of a sales funnel and what kind of pre-selling at what scale.
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  • Profile picture of the author mrxu
    I recently read a WSO, (possibly the same one as WillR), where the author felt he had to inject his own personality into the material to the point where it became very tedious to read and my mind was distracted from the actual point of what I was reading.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Suellen,

    Well, I think that you should put it up and price it as you would for that much info. If it's worth $97, ask that for it, and sell it to the public at 147+

    You have an advantage that I don't have - you are coming in the WSO section fresh without a specific reputation. I've built one up as a "massive value for basically 0 guy" and that limits my approach.

    However, you must be extremely specific with your targeting on your sales page. You are wanting newbies who are willing to pay the money for the information you provide. People who are serious about business. This does mean you'll isolate from the rest of the WSO crowd, but that can be a good thing.

    Finally, I would also get products in the lower price range, but make them as I said in my OP. Then upsell people on your larger WSO package.

    This way, you cast a wider net and increase your chances of finding your bigger and higher priced product buyers.

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author Suellen Reitz
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      Suellen,

      Well, I think that you should put it up and price it as you would for that much info. If it's worth $97, ask that for it, and sell it to the public at 147+

      You have an advantage that I don't have - you are coming in the WSO section fresh without a specific reputation. I've built one up as a "massive value for basically 0 guy" and that limits my approach.

      However, you must be extremely specific with your targeting on your sales page. You are wanting newbies who are willing to pay the money for the information you provide. People who are serious about business. This does mean you'll isolate from the rest of the WSO crowd, but that can be a good thing.

      Finally, I would also get products in the lower price range, but make them as I said in my OP. Then upsell people on your larger WSO package.

      This way, you cast a wider net and increase your chances of finding your bigger and higher priced product buyers.

      Rob
      Thanks for the advice Rob... Problem is, our team formed for the specific purpose of making this product. So we don't have small products as of now. Doesn't mean we can't make some! We've just put all of our eggs in this one basket... and now it's getting pretty heavy!

      My concern about putting the AtoZ WSO at a price it's worth is... when I check sales of other products... those over $17 don't get much action. Yes, we can sell it for way under price, but my concern there is the conversions don't really equate to true pricing once we go live on Click Bank. That's why I'm intrigued w the possiblity of splitting it for smaller sales.

      But sounds like you think we would be better to make a quick "valuable" product w/ the big one as an upsale. Am I right?

      Thanks again for your input. You certainly are a great person to follow on this forum along w/ many many others!

      Suellen
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Well Suellen, what is your purpose for this product? Do you plan on having any sort of backend?

    If it were me, I would actually put the BIG package on the backend as an upsell and create a small report/hotsheet for the WSO.

    Give 100% commission on the front, attract a lot of affiliates, get 1000 people in the door, and try to get 50 to 200 to purchase your backend. (And as further encouragement to affiliates, offer some percentage on the upsell, like 25 or 50)

    The fact is, a hotsheet or short report will only take an hour or two to put together, if you already have the knowledge.

    You could do what you say and break it into smaller chunks. But the point of my entire post is to say this, in 3 words: Don't Undervalue Yourself! If you have a large product, sell it for 47 or 77 or 97.

    In any event, this is what I would do in your situation. Your goals for your product line may be different.

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author Suellen Reitz
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      Well Suellen, what is your purpose for this product? Do you plan on having any sort of backend?

      If it were me, I would actually put the BIG package on the backend as an upsell and create a small report/hotsheet for the WSO.

      Give 100% commission on the front, attract a lot of affiliates, get 1000 people in the door, and try to get 50 to 200 to purchase your backend. (And as further encouragement to affiliates, offer some percentage on the upsell, like 25 or 50)

      The fact is, a hotsheet or short report will only take an hour or two to put together, if you already have the knowledge.

      You could do what you say and break it into smaller chunks. But the point of my entire post is to say this, in 3 words: Don't Undervalue Yourself! If you have a large product, sell it for 47 or 77 or 97.

      In any event, this is what I would do in your situation. Your goals for your product line may be different.

      Rob
      Hi Rob,
      Thanks again for the excellent advice. I totally agree that by underselling your product, you not only hurt yourself, it can hurt others as they have to do same to keep the pace... I will be talking with my partners this week and I certainly will strongly suggest this tactic.

      Suellen
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  • Profile picture of the author MP80
    Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

    You can take a few hours, put a REAL awesome report together that shows them ONE THING really well - and you no longer compete with these other bozo's. You don't have to make outlandish claims. And your product can produce a line of cheapo reports - that increase your income. Because instead of selling 1 massive product at 10 bucks - you now sell 10 short products at 10 bucks each and with some customers they buy 100 dollars!
    Rob, I like your style

    Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

    Finally, take a look at this post. I just shared something I really could have sold for 7 bucks in the WSO forum - how to increase your WSO selling power, Increase Your Customer Happiness, and decrease the time it takes to market. This post is almost a perfect example of what I'm talking about
    Too true - I think you should package this as a WSO.. Hang on a minute.. (I just bought it today lol )

    Max.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

      Rob, I like your style

      Too true - I think you should package this as a WSO.. Hang on a minute.. (I just bought it today lol )

      Max.

      LOL

      I went to look at his WSO when I heard it had come out. I read the sales page, then I knew where the product had come from.

      But I am guilty of the same. I posted two posts today that are the outline for future wso's for me.
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      • Profile picture of the author MP80
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        But I am guilty of the same. I posted two posts today that are the outline for future wso's for me.
        Hmmn... In that case I know where I'm off to then - time for a bit of thread hopping..
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        Before you do ANYTHING else in your day - do at least ONE thing that brings money into your business.
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      • Profile picture of the author WikiWarrior
        Here's another idea. How about splitting the WSO forum into sub-forums based on price, such as:

        $1 - $17 = Existing main section
        $17 - $37 = 1st sub-forum
        $37 - $67 = 2nd sub-forum
        $67+ 3rd sub-forum

        Or it could be rolled out by initially just having one sub-forum for WSO's over a certain price. This could solve a number of problems:

        1) Each WSO gets more "air-time" on the 1st page meaning sellers get more value for money from their $40 listing fee and potential for more sales.
        2) More sellers making premium WSO's to list in the higher-bracket sub-forums and having good reason to sell here, plus more business for the forum owner.
        3) More appropriate grouping of offers by value. Different price grouping would stem the flow of the current "race to the bottom" trend. The higher priced sub-forums would undoubtedly be less busy but this would be balanced by offers getting more exposure due to the lower number of listings.
        4) Potential customers wanting to invest in higher-priced, more comprehensive products would be able to find them more easily. The social proof element of buyers giving their feedback should keep the price/value relationship honest and trustworthy.
        5) Helps sellers attract the kind of customers they want, instead of feeling forced to create a loss-leader or other product purely to fit in with the current pricing, when all they want to do is attract customers who see the value in their premium offer and are happy to spend the money.

        To prevent possible abuse a listing in a higher price bracket might cost say $60 instead of $40 and consequently a "bump" might then be an additional $60.

        It would then come down to whether the extra income from the sub-forums (and quite possibly the main forum as more sellers feel it worthwhile to have a listing there) made it a sound business decision for Mr Says.

        I'm sure there are other benefits but this is what springs to mind after reading this and other threads on this topic.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    Can someone please create a Hotsheet summary of this thread,
    capturing all the relevant ideas and then give me a free review
    copy? ;-)

    Thanks in advance

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi John,

      Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

      Can someone please create a Hotsheet summary of this thread, capturing all the relevant ideas and then give me a free review
      copy? ;-)

      Thanks in advance

      John
      Sure...

      Hotsheet Summary

      ............................................

      Currently, generalising somewhat, the majority of WSO buyers prefer lower priced products, with bite-sized chunks of information in them, sold via semi-blind salespages.

      No they don't.

      Yes they do.

      Pass the popcorn.
      ............................................
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      Roger Davis

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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

      Can someone please create a Hotsheet summary of this thread
      Star Summary.

      Thread posted. Thread became popular. OP created WSO based on thread content and released it yesterday.

      End Summary.
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