An Open Letter to The Dream Thieves...

by sal64
94 replies
Yes you know who you are, so listen up...

Every day we see new threads created along the following lines...

WSO's are scams
Gurus only want to bleed you dry
OTO's suck
Sick of WSO's
Clickbank is a rip-off
My neighbor's dog poo'd on my front lawn

Ok, so it ain't a perfect world people, but we are all here trying to make a living and help each other.

I will only speak for myself and say that I am sick of these threads.

Members who come on here only to complain are nothing but dream thieves.

Sure you might feel better with your attention seeking crap, but all you do is discourage people and create a negative atmosphere.

What? I should just ignore you? Yes, you have point, but the bottom line is that unlike you, I care. I care and I am grateful.

I care for others and their future so I try and contribute. I am grateful for the wisdom and insights I gain on here.

Unfortunately, freedom of speech dictates that I tolerate your nonsense, but that doesn't mean I accept.

If you want to live in your cynical, negative world... feel free to do so.

But PLEASE don't contaminate the forum with it.

Granted, if there is something of value such as alerting members of a scam or something, then by all means post.

However, if all you want to do is rant, at least add some constructive solutions so that we can all learn and benefit. Be a valuable contributor to our community.

If not... don't let the door hit ya.

And before you say... oh the irony of this thread, I don't care because I am fed up.

The world needs positive people - not the dream thieves that just want to drag us down to their level.

Sal
#dream #letter #open #thieves
  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

    The world needs positive people - not the dream thieves that just want to drag us down to their level.

    Sal

    I find it funny you say this.

    I have often said that the game is not, "Keeping up with the Joneses", but rather, "Keep the Joneses down to our level, so we don't have to work so hard." :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      I find most of your humour funny, Bill.

      I wish you all the success in the world. As long as you're not more successful than me. :p

      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      I find it funny you say this.

      I have often said that the game is not, "Keeping up with the Joneses", but rather, "Keep the Joneses down to our level, so we don't have to work so hard." :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    Thanks for posting this Sal.

    It's getting out of hand and people (negtards) who use titles like that are pouring kerosene into the cake mix. "why you will never be a success" or "why you will fail" or "why 99% of people who try IM will fail"...are helping no one and if they have a legitimate point I'm sure it could be made in a more positive way. I don't think the people who post negative destructive pointless threads like those have any idea how much (sometimes irreversible) damage they are doing to this place, the dreams, hopes and aspirations of others and themselves.

    There's just no need for it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Internet marketing is a scam.

      Article marketing is dead, PPC is dead, Google is dead, CB is dead, the Warrior forum is dead, everything is dead.

      You can't make money online, period. It's dead.

      Elvis on the other hand is alive and well and eating burgers on the moon, I know, I had a big mac with him yesterday.

      Sincerely,

      Richard.
      Category A Broadmoor Criminal Lunatic Asylum Patient.

      Wibble, bark, my old mans a mushroom etc etc.
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      Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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      • Profile picture of the author Alan Ashwood
        Sometimes I have conflicting views on whether newcomers should find the Warrior Forum early in their careers, or later.

        If they come to the WF very early on, there's a danger that they may only find the negative and critical posts. They could be put off, and wander away for ever, disillusioned and depressed.

        However, if, like me, you found the WF later in your IM career, you've probably experienced the pain, so you can just get on with it and progress.

        On the other hand, if you come to the WF early, you can realise that there's so much help, friendship and advice, that you can progress much quicker, particularly if you read, but don't consume the woe spreaders' datk messages.

        It's all a matter of your frame of mind. You can fall victim to the negative messages, or be encouraged by the majority who are making strides to a new income, and even a new life.

        There are thousands of WF members. I don't believe for one second, that most of them will fail.

        In a past life I used to ride motorcycles.
        We wore cut off jackets with a club emblem on the back. On the front was a patch with the figure "1%". It meant that we were unique, we were the one per cent who were different (outlaws actually).

        We wore our 1% patch with pride. If the statistics are correct, why not wear your 1% with pride.

        Although probably in the minority (like most business start ups), be a 1%er; be different; be unique; be confident; be successful - be an outlaw!

        Cheers
        Alan
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        Time for a cuppa.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven W Johnson
          Originally Posted by Alan Ashwood View Post

          Sometimes I have conflicting views on whether newcomers should find the Warrior Forum early in their careers, or later.
          Newbies should be armed with the equivalent of:

          a. a TOURIST VISA
          b. a copy of big mike's manifesto (can't say thanks enough, big guy!)
          c. some simple rules of the road - preferably NOT in geekspeak
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  • Profile picture of the author steve cooper
    It's human nature to whinge and moan on forums, I live in Thailand part of the year and subscribe to a living in Thailand forum and there's thousands of miserable guys on it complaining about the food, the people, the heat etc etc. If you came on that forum with an idea of moving to Thailand you'd soon change your mind.
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      It's funny that you raise this aspect,

      What bothers me is that you can make a thread which contains gold, and it usually sinks within 24 hours.

      But start a thread bagging out WSO's or something and spreads like wildfire...

      So go figure. It's sad.

      Originally Posted by steve cooper View Post

      It's human nature to whinge and moan on forums, I live in Thailand part of the year and subscribe to a living in Thailand forum and there's thousands of miserable guys on it complaining about the food, the people, the heat etc etc. If you came on that forum with an idea of moving to Thailand you'd soon change your mind.
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      • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
        Sal,

        Don't understand why you're complaining.

        This is a marketing forum. Doom, gloom and negativity attracts eyeballs.

        If you don't like being marketed to . . .


        Martin
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        • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
          What you see on a forum is human nature laid bare.

          As a marketer, I find some threads useful - including
          some of the ranting ones (but not all of them!).

          Why?

          Because it helps me to understand what is REALLY going
          on in the minds of prospects and customers.

          (Not what I'd like them to think, but what they actually
          ARE thinking).

          Then I use that to create better offers and address people's
          real concerns in my copy.

          For example, I know that some people get all bent out of
          shape over multiple OTOs. Therefore, if I were running a
          WSO without any OTO at all, then I'd be wise to let people
          know that up front on the sales page.

          Without some of those threads, I'd be flying blind.

          If I see a thread that I'm not bothered about, then I just
          click away from it.

          However, if a thread gets my attention - and the attention
          of a lot of people in the market, then as a marketer I think:

          "That's interesting. How can I use this to improve my marketing (if at all)?"

          Dedicated to mutual success,

          Shaun
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          .

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        • Profile picture of the author sal64
          And your point is?

          Who says I don't like being marketed to?

          Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

          Sal,

          Don't understand why you're complaining.

          This is a marketing forum. Doom, gloom and negativity attracts eyeballs.

          If you don't like being marketed to . . .


          Martin
          Signature
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          You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

            And your point is?

            Who says I don't like being marketed to?

            Then let my lady show you around...





            Buy My Stuff Dude!! :p
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            Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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            • Profile picture of the author sal64
              Do I get a little red ball as well?

              Originally Posted by tpw View Post

              Then let my lady show you around...





              Buy My Stuff Dude!! :p
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              • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                Sal, color me cynical, but a lot of those threads tend to show up as an early one heats up and draws attention. The later ones also draw attention, and those sigs ain't gonna show themselves...

                Bill, I know Jones. Jones is a friend of mine. And you, sir, are no Jones. (And that's a good thing - Jones is a nice guy, but he's an idiot... )

                Shaun, just keep it up, buddy. You told them where to find the decoder ring. What's next, showing them the secret handshake?
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  You got dream thieves on the left and dream promoters on the right - best to avoid both.

                  Thieves will tell you nothing works, there's no chance.....promoters will urge anyone to "keep trying" and "you can do it". Both avoid reality and both usually have a cute little signature, too.

                  kay
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                  • Profile picture of the author Azarna
                    I am quite new to these forums.

                    One of the reasons I really like them is because they seem to cover so many different view points, and are clearly not censored to only saying '100% pro or nothing', like certain other IM forums.

                    Whilst I fully agree that too much negativity will put people off, from a purely personal point of view, as a newbie in this game, I want to know the TRUTH. I want to hear the bad things too, the negative opinions and the issues so I can make informed choices and understand what I need to do to be succesful. If I am never told about these things then I will not be equipped to deal with them.

                    I will also get ripped off a lot, I suppose, hehe

                    So basically whilst I agree that positivity is GREAT and to be encouraged as the norm, a little bit of healthy cynicism and HONEST negativity is also important as part of the learning process.
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                    • Profile picture of the author LeeLee
                      Originally Posted by Azarna View Post

                      Whilst I fully agree that too much negativity will put people off, from a purely personal point of view, as a newbie in this game, I want to know the TRUTH.


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                      • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        You got dream thieves on the left and dream promoters on the right - best to avoid both.

                        Thieves will tell you nothing works, there's no chance.....promoters will urge anyone to "keep trying" and "you can do it". Both avoid reality and both usually have a cute little signature, too.

                        kay
                        "Keep trying, you can do it" is avoiding reality? It's encouragement which IS reality. Every coach and teacher and instructor and leader in the world and in history has used that phrase to encourage learners to "keep trying" because they CAN do it. It is not unreal to encourage people and the day it is will be sad.

                        Originally Posted by satrap View Post

                        But you just called anybody who starts a negative thread about IM and it not working, "dream Thieves!

                        Was this point directed at yourself?...
                        No. Why would it have been?
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                      • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
                        Originally Posted by LeeLee View Post

                        I prefer the last line of that dialouge....

                        Dont call me son, im a officer in the US navy...And your under arrest you son of a bitch
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                      • Profile picture of the author Alan Ashwood
                        Just to throw a different slant on this subject.

                        Perhaps some of the so called 'whingers' are attempting to warn newbies about the realities of IM, and us ethis as their way of warning against the dark side.
                        Could it be that some of these negatives are their way of balancing the oversold, bs promises made by some marketers.

                        The WF is the place to come for the truth.

                        If nobody counters the fantasies touted throughout the business, newcomers will continue to fall victim to the wild, false promises that are published everywhere.

                        Even if it just slows down impulse purchases, and helps them apply some due diligence, it will have done a service. How else can the truth be passed on? We owe it to them, and to ourselves.

                        To quote Azarna, "as a newbie in this game, I want to know the TRUTH."

                        Or maybe sometimes people just need to let off steam, and have a rant.

                        ...... or maybe I'm totally wrong? Naaah.

                        Any thoughts?

                        Keep on swimming . . .

                        Aan

                        .
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                        Now where did I put that pencil?

                        Time for a cuppa.
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                        • Profile picture of the author David Ogden
                          Originally Posted by Alan Ashwood View Post

                          Just to throw a different slant on this subject.

                          Perhaps some of the so called 'whingers' are attempting to warn newbies about the realities of IM, and us ethis as their way of warning against the dark side.
                          Could it be that some of these negatives are their way of balancing the oversold, bs promises made by some marketers.

                          The WF is the place to come for the truth.

                          If nobody counters the fantasies touted throughout the business, newcomers will continue to fall victim to the wild, false promises that are published everywhere.

                          Even if it just slows down impulse purchases, and helps them apply some due diligence, it will have done a service. How else can the truth be passed on? We owe it to them, and to ourselves.
                          .
                          Alan I think you might have hit the nail on the head here if everything was as smooth as some people say, we would all be millionaires, so some of these negative statement may just act as a warning to the unwary not to be so gullible, the truth is out there somewhere you just have to use due diligence to find it.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Alminc
                          There is huge difference between threads started to GIVE, and those
                          started to 'build expert status/create buzz/reserach' in order to sell you
                          something very soon (even if selling you something is not a bad thing
                          'a priori'). We all can tell the difference (except total noobs).

                          While selling is natural part of making money, true giving is always rewarded
                          with tons of positive comments (honest ones) and good relationships.

                          That is reflected in wso section too. When the wso is really GIVING,
                          it becomes popular very fast. There is no need for 'buddies' to jump
                          in and populate the first page with bold recommendations, such wsos
                          are doing exceptionally well without any pushing.

                          On the other hand, when the wso is created with 'cashing in' in mind
                          as the main (and maybe only) motive, the first page of such wso thread
                          is very often populated by glorious comments coming from 'buddies',
                          and that becomes more and more obvious and irritating (people are not
                          that stupid). In many cases, such wsos are started by warriors who
                          are already successful, or even have some kind of guru status.
                          People can live with that as long as the product is really good.
                          But many times the product is not really good.
                          The most natural reaction is to complain about being deceived
                          and talk bad about the guru seller and all his buddies. I think it's normal
                          and very well deserved in all such cases.

                          I agree that being negative all the time, with or without reason, is
                          destructive. But being negative with good reason is normal human
                          reaction, and it shouldn't be condemned.
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                          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                            Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

                            It's like a quick heroin fix for them. They laugh and move on having left their "scent" by squirting in the corners but the stench lingers for days sometimes weeks and in some cases forever. Similar to someone you invited for a visit taking a dump right in your living room and then arguing "it's a natural bodily function!". Yes, it's natural but it's hardly the point or doesn't make it excusable, acceptable or ignorable.

                            Imagine if someone did that in your hourse and when you complained and got upset people's advice was "just ignore them - they will go away. What does it matter anyway? As long as you use the toilet what does it matter what other people do and where they do it. Just move on and ignore it. Eventually it will stop stinking."

                            It won't stop stinking until you remove it (and the person who done it) from your living area and preferably from your life.
                            Gotta quit reading these threads before breakfast... :p
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                            • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
                              Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                              Gotta quit reading these threads before breakfast... :p
                              Sorry about that (time zones). Thanks for the laugh though - it was needed (in this thread).
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                      • Profile picture of the author sal64
                        How prophetic...

                        That line applies to quite a few in this business.

                        Originally Posted by LeeLee View Post

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                  • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                    Hi Kay,

                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    You got dream thieves on the left and dream promoters on the right
                    ...here I am, stuck in the middle with you...

                    Signature


                    Roger Davis

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                    • Profile picture of the author steven sanderson
                      Everyone likes a good moan now and again lol, i totally agree with the fact we are sat here all day working our niches, solving problems, answering emails, but i love it, and i will never go back to the building trade as a joiner,

                      There are plenty of people having a bit of a rant over Facebook at the moment regarding the new timeline, if youve just come across it here as bit of assistance courtesy of my wife Elaine

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                    • Profile picture of the author DogBite
                      Yes, there are dream thieves out there and there are those here who are really helping.

                      Brings to mind the old saying "if it sounds too good to be true it probably is."

                      The people who want to bring everyone down to their level are both online and offline. You will find them everywhere. Protect your mind, keep a positive out look and... "Don't let anyone steal your dream!"

                      If you want it enough to make it a burning desire, you will figure out how to get it. Remember a business takes work. You will have to do something or learn something to get where you want to go. Otherwise you'd already be there.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Tony Marriott
                      Originally Posted by Azarna View Post

                      I am quite new to these forums.

                      One of the reasons I really like them is because they seem to cover so many different view points, and are clearly not censored to only saying '100% pro or nothing', like certain other IM forums.

                      Whilst I fully agree that too much negativity will put people off, from a purely personal point of view, as a newbie in this game, I want to know the TRUTH. I want to hear the bad things too, the negative opinions and the issues so I can make informed choices and understand what I need to do to be successful. If I am never told about these things then I will not be equipped to deal with them.

                      I will also get ripped off a lot, I suppose, hehe

                      So basically whilst I agree that positivity is GREAT and to be encouraged as the norm, a little bit of healthy cynicism and HONEST negativity is also important as part of the learning process.
                      .............And that's one of the main problems.

                      Just because a view is negative does not make it true. They are, as you say, different points of view. They are not factual comments.

                      That doesn't mean that all positive comments are true either but accepting all negative comments as true will, by default, flag many of the positive comments as false.

                      There does seem to be two distinct threads runing through here

                      1. Using negatives as a promotion tool (99% of marketers fail because.....)
                      2. General negativity expounding all IM as a scam (Gurus rip us off, no- ever makes money except the product sellers etc...)

                      Unfortunately number 1 is derived from a basic marketing theory that people are more likley to put their hands in their pockets to stop pain than to get pleasure (maybe that's why I see so many newbies creating sites for hemorrhoid treatments - don't start me on that one)

                      Number 2 IMO comes from people who who are unable to make money from the products they buy. Why that may be, is whole new debate, but it's unreasonable to assume they have all been ripped off.
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                • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
                  Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                  What's next, showing them the secret handshake?
                  I keep hearing about this "secret handshake" but Im yet to see it?
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                  • Profile picture of the author sal64
                    Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

                    I keep hearing about this "secret handshake" but Im yet to see it?
                    We can show you... but we'd have to kill you afterwards.
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                    • Profile picture of the author David Ogden
                      Sal,
                      I was wondering what your take is on newspapers, because the only news they sell is generally bad negative news, Prepare for another financial downturn, unemployment increases, hurricane kills people. I have yet to find a paper that prints only good news, but I think it might be enlightening.

                      It takes all types to make the world and everyone has their pet hates. I have to admit that at times I can appear negative, but I also believe that I can do anything and get anything I want, if I want it enough

                      This discussion is quite interesting
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                  • Profile picture of the author Alex Kage
                    Originally Posted by xTrav View Post

                    Im not so sure you want to know all of the details of this shady method
                    I do, so that I can avoid it.
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            • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
              Originally Posted by tpw View Post

              Then let my lady show you around...





              Buy My Stuff Dude!! :p
              I'd probably buy anything she was selling...
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      • Profile picture of the author SteveFinch
        Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

        It's funny that you raise this aspect,

        What bothers me is that you can make a thread which contains gold, and it usually sinks within 24 hours.

        But start a thread bagging out WSO's or something and spreads like wildfire...

        So go figure. It's sad.
        I reckon the reason is that some people (Maybe all of us at some time) love a bit of drama. We spend large parts of our day slaving away trying to figure out why something isn't working, or trying to come up with a new niche, spending hours and hours researching, testing, tweaking and testing again, answering customer emails, solving customer problems etc etc.

        And then a thread pops up on this forum or another, bad mouthing something or other, and the temptation to leap in and join the bandwagon is overwhelming. It's pointless really, but in some way....satisfying also.
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        • Profile picture of the author sal64
          I remember talking to John Carlton once and he explained that the majority of people get up every day and go to a meaningless job, then come home and no one cares about their day. So they need drama. That's why your headline has to shake them up.

          I guess this also applies to people having to be heard.

          Perhaps - perhaps not.

          Originally Posted by SteveFinch View Post

          I reckon the reason is that some people (Maybe all of us at some time) love a bit of drama. We spend large parts of our day slaving away trying to figure out why something isn't working, or trying to come up with a new niche, spending hours and hours researching, testing, tweaking and testing again, answering customer emails, solving customer problems etc etc.

          And then a thread pops up on this forum or another, bad mouthing something or other, and the temptation to leap in and join the bandwagon is overwhelming. It's pointless really, but in some way....satisfying also.
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      • Profile picture of the author JRemington
        Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

        It's funny that you raise this aspect,

        What bothers me is that you can make a thread which contains gold, and it usually sinks within 24 hours.

        But start a thread bagging out WSO's or something and spreads like wildfire...

        So go figure. It's sad.
        Maybe for the same reasons that the news headlines are always full of negative, sad stories. Half of the challenge in the ride through life is steering clear of those rough, stormy, negative waves and sailing on through the blue ocean.
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    Good point Alan.

    We all get ripped off at some stage. Heck, I've been done for about $20k over the journey.

    But guess what? In the end I have to take responsibility for my situation.

    Perhaps I should be more tolerant, but it seems not a day passes with these negative threads.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rough Outline
    I don't know what's worse, the people who can the IM dream or the people who constantly peddle it. Why is anyone here even bothered about what other people say about IM? It's their loss, not yours.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
      Originally Posted by Rough Outline View Post

      ...Why is anyone here even bothered about what other people say about IM? It's their loss, not yours.
      Because we don't live in a social vacuum and what people say and (more importantly) let other people say (and get away with), matters - like it or not. Another great reason to shut stealers down would be that their vile poison can be dangerous to new wide eyed people who might wander in here and read some of the rubbish spread around by the stealers and think it's true or relevant.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rough Outline
        Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

        Because we don't live in a social vacuum and what people say and (more importantly) let other people say (and get away with), matters - like it or not. Another great reason to shut stealers down would be that their vile poison can be dangerous to new wide eyed people who might wander in here and read some of the rubbish spread around by the stealers and think it's true or relevant.
        To be honest, I don't like the idea of the "IM dream" from a positive or negative front, it all seems a bit smoke and mirrors. We don't have to nanny people that are new to IM, give them the facts straight.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
          Originally Posted by Rough Outline View Post

          To be honest, I don't like the idea of the "IM dream" from a positive or negative front, it all seems a bit smoke and mirrors. We don't have to nanny people that are new to IM, give them the facts straight.
          What I mean by "dream" is just the simple "dream" of freedom. Working from home at their leisure is a dream big enough for most people (to start with at least). I'm not a millionairism spruiker but I do believe that working from home (or a laptop) is a great life that's worth aspiring to.
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  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    Hi

    You just created a thread bashing people for creating threads that bash people. If you didn't start this thread, it would be one less negative, pointless thread that you don't like.

    If you don't like negative posts by "Dream Theives" why not counter that by posting something positive and useful instead of doing the same thing?

    Mahlon
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
      Originally Posted by onSubie View Post

      Hi

      You just created a thread bashing people for creating threads that bash people. If you didn't start this thread, it would be one less negative, pointless thread that you don't like.

      If you don't like negative posts by "Dream Theives" why not counter that by posting something positive and useful instead of doing the same thing?

      Mahlon
      Because it needed to be said. It's a "double negative" post (pointing out the IM bashing threads need to stop) so it's a positive because it promotes a positive thing (staying positive).
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Life aint all cupcakes and cordial.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      Life aint all cupcakes and cordial.
      Meaning when we hear people talking smack we should just leave it alone? If everyone did that the world would go to hell.

      I'm not saying everything in life is all beer and biscuits but when someone spews rubbish that is just crap and nonsense and potentially hurts (new) people I (personally) don't enjoy sitting back and just letting it flow. I like to point it out so that it's clear (just for my own piece of mind) and if no one did, this place would also turn into a cess pool of negative grumpy no hopers and I personally think that would be a massive shame so I'll do my bit to make sure that doesn't happen as I hope many others will as well.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
        Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

        Meaning when we hear people talking smack we should just leave it alone? If everyone did that the world would go to hell.

        I'm not saying everything in life is all beer and biscuits but when someone spews rubbish that is just crap and nonsense and potentially hurts (new) people I (personally) don't enjoy sitting back and just letting it flow. I like to point it out so that it's clear (just for my own piece of mind) and if no one did, this place would also turn into a cess pool of negative grumpy no hopers and I personally think that would be a massive shame so I'll do my bit to make sure that doesn't happen as I hope many others will as well.
        Dude I agree, absolutely.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kael41
    I've got zero problem with the "dream thieves" as you so term them. Many of them are long standing marketers who understand that there is a ton of crap in the wso market that is simply rehashed and regurgitated garbage. I actually applaud those older members who take a stand and make their voice heard about what they feel is viable or not viable.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
      Originally Posted by Kael41 View Post

      I've got zero problem with the "dream thieves" as you so term them. Many of them are long standing marketers who understand that there is a ton of crap in the wso market that is simply rehashed and regurgitated garbage. I actually applaud those older members who take a stand and make their voice heard about what they feel is viable or not viable.
      There's a big difference between that and sitting at the door spewing rubbish constantly about how 99% of IM products are crap or that "all buyers are fools" and "there is no way anyone can make any money on the internet" - type of threads. That's the harmful stuff that needs to stop. Not the "be careful" type of posts. What I is when some grumpy posters or negative newbies make massive inaccurate blanket statements and new good positive new people come along and believe it. That's just wrong and harmful and does no one any good.
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      • Profile picture of the author capitalalchemy
        I agree completely, and I would like to add that I'm really tired of "The Reason You're Failing Threads". These have been around since I started a long time ago, and aren't constructive criticism because they have always said the same thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rough Outline
    Also the term 'dream thief' is so propagandised, I prefer to call them the 'bucket of cold water over your head crew', it's refreshing and necessary for a lot of people.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
      Originally Posted by Rough Outline View Post

      Also the term 'dream thief' is so propagandised, I prefer to call them the 'bucket of cold water over your head crew', it's refreshing and necessary for a lot of people.
      That may well be but when you invite people into your home do you pour a bucket of water over each and every one of your guests? Do you call "all guests" fools or idiots? Do you insult every guest because one was a fool? No. The blanket negativity is toxic and must be addressed.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rough Outline
        Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

        That may well be but when you invite people into your home do you pour a bucket of water over each and every one of your guests? Do you call "all guests" fools or idiots? Do you insult every guest because one was a fool? No. The blanket negativity is toxic and must be addressed.
        1. It's a figure of speech, a metaphor, it's not literal.
        2. Who said anything about insulting people? That is not what I meant.
        3. Read this.
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      • Profile picture of the author satrap
        Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

        That may well be but when you invite people into your home do you pour a bucket of water over each and every one of your guests? Do you call "all guests" fools or idiots? Do you insult every guest because one was a fool? No. The blanket negativity is toxic and must be addressed.
        But you just called anybody who starts a negative thread about IM and it not working, "dream Thieves!

        Was this point directed at yourself?...
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        • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
          all that's important is what you think, not what anybody else thinks...whether they are dream thieves or promoters, no one should let either of them influence your own decisions.
          dare to be unique, dare to be you, take full responsibility for your own actions, nothing else matters.
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          • Profile picture of the author sal64
            YES!!! Love your work, Karen.

            Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

            all that's important is what you think, not what anybody else thinks...whether they are dream thieves or promoters, no one should let either of them influence your own decisions.
            dare to be unique, dare to be you, take full responsibility for your own actions, nothing else matters.
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        • Profile picture of the author sal64
          So by your logic, anyone who points out the dangers of negative people, are themselves negative?

          I am now confused.

          I think all we are doing here is trying to give people a bitch-slap and wake them up to the perils of just being negative.

          At least that was the point of my thread.


          Originally Posted by satrap View Post

          But you just called anybody who starts a negative thread about IM and it not working, "dream Thieves!

          Was this point directed at yourself?...
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  • Profile picture of the author anton343
    Ok

    I have seen lots of threads complaining about the number of upsells etc on WSO's ot the quality they're getting etc. hey but these guys have an opinion and are entitled to it.

    I have rarely seen one that says IM is crap and everything is a scam I think Sal is just letting of steam.

    it's not the situation that pisses you off It's how you react to it that's the problem

    Anton
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by capitalalchemy View Post

      I agree completely, and I would like to add that I'm really tired of "The Reason You're Failing Threads". These have been around since I started a long time ago, and aren't constructive criticism because they have always said the same thing.
      What's really amazing is that, just coincidentally, the cure for failing is available through their sig... :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Skinner
    People complain because they have problems. They seek solutions to their problems. It is our challenge as marketers to recognize this and offer a solution. Some will accept and some will not. NEXT........
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      You got dream thieves on the left and dream promoters on the right - best to avoid both.

      Thieves will tell you nothing works, there's no chance.....promoters will urge anyone to "keep trying" and "you can do it". Both avoid reality and both usually have a cute little signature, too.

      kay
      ^^ She Get's It. Thanks Kay. ^^ But I don't have a problem with promoters because that's their chosen business, and they are doing their job. It's up to the consumer to research etc before making a decision. Did they do this or did they just want to believe and saw it as a magic bullet?

      Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

      Because we don't live in a social vacuum and what people say and (more importantly) let other people say (and get away with), matters - like it or not. Another great reason to shut stealers down would be that their vile poison can be dangerous to new wide eyed people who might wander in here and read some of the rubbish spread around by the stealers and think it's true or relevant.
      ^^ emotive but pretty much correct ^^

      Originally Posted by onSubie View Post

      Hi

      You just created a thread bashing people for creating threads that bash people. If you didn't start this thread, it would be one less negative, pointless thread that you don't like.

      If you don't like negative posts by "Dream Theives" why not counter that by posting something positive and useful instead of doing the same thing?

      Mahlon
      Um, incorrect. I do post a ton of value. Just check my profile and the number of thanks I get. This isn't about me. It's about people that have nothing to say and basically blame everyone else but themselves.

      And the message for them is simple... it's time to piss or get off the pot.

      Originally Posted by Kael41 View Post

      I've got zero problem with the "dream thieves" as you so term them. Many of them are long standing marketers who understand that there is a ton of crap in the wso market that is simply rehashed and regurgitated garbage. I actually applaud those older members who take a stand and make their voice heard about what they feel is viable or not viable.
      The senior members are not the problem. I'd say in almost all cases when we present a problem, we also add a solution. And that's how it should be because that's how we all learn.

      Originally Posted by Rough Outline View Post

      Also the term 'dream thief' is so propagandised, I prefer to call them the 'bucket of cold water over your head crew', it's refreshing and necessary for a lot of people.
      Propaganda? Not in my book. Just another term as far as I am concerned.

      Originally Posted by Scott Skinner View Post

      People complain because they have problems. They seek solutions to their problems. It is our challenge as marketers to recognize this and offer a solution. Some will accept and some will not. NEXT........
      Are they seeking a solution or looking for someone to blame? But you are correct... some will not accept because the answer isn't what they want to hear. They are just seeking reinforcement of their views.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Ogden
    It takes all kinds of people to make the world, and maybe some of the negative people do have points to make at time, but some are trying to push some alternative product and think the headline will grab attention.

    If someone has a gripe about some rather than winge and whine and moan, they can take positive action. If its about the job they do, they can leave and find something better. if its about clickbank adsense adwords or some other online program stop using it,

    I laugh if I see someone complain about adsense and see they are still using on their website.

    There used to be a website called the Bitchers, Moaners and Whiners Club, it was a great place to post as the Google spiders were very active, so posts were indexed very quickly.

    Maybe that is why people appear to be bitching in this forum
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  • Profile picture of the author focused
    The dream thieves complain about a host of IM products,
    precisely because they have purchased many of those products.
    And despite their whining and ranting about them, the dream thieves
    will continue to buy and buy again.
    They are part of the IM market.
    So be thankful they are there and you can sell to them.
    Just understand their psychology and satisfy their needs.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMWinner
    There are those kinds of people who are trying to discourage other people for the reason that we can't understand. But what we know is that, why on earth are some people listen to this kind?

    It's a matter of how you trust yourself than what other people might think of you. People always had their own prejudices towards other people, whether we like it or not. And this you term as "dream thieves" should NOT be a reason why we would be discourage to what they say or write. It is how they experience and what they felt when they underwent to that ordeal. It is just that they were expressing what they want to say and that doesn't tell us that what they say is true. If they fail on their attempts, it doesn't imply that we too would fail just because they weren't able to do it.

    Positive outlook and the knack to never quit should always be on our mind. People who are yapping and crying about their life should start to re-build their mindset and keep it moving forward. Crying will never make a person successful.

    Those you call dream thieves are seeing things negatively. Don't let their words get you too. It's like a virus that spreading slowly and tries to infect other organisms. Just be careful on these people and never let them get into your mind.
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  • Profile picture of the author steven sanderson
    Once people can manage to get on with there daily lives of building there future without getting trapped as a dream thief or trapped with the dream sellers then there progress will just blossom !!
    It is true, let people do what they do, if someone wants to waste there time telling me nothing works then so be it, same applies if someone wants to waste there time telling me they can show me how to earn $100,000 next week then again "so be it" !!
    At the end of the day if we was all the same then this world would be boring wouldnt it, my advice is just get on with it and spend your efforts building YOU, and let others spend what time they have doing what makes them happy, or sad lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

    The world needs positive people - not the dream thieves that just want to drag us down to their level.
    Sal
    I do not think there is any such thing as a dream thief, but more so there are some people who are unsure where they are going and such fall prey to another persons rubbish instead of being in control of their own destiny and or purpose.
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  • Profile picture of the author MilesT
    Right on, Sal.

    It's the "Guru bashers" that get to me. You don't see them bashing the best doctors, or the best pizza in town, but they'll bash any marketer that's doing it harder and smarter than everyone else. Bummer.

    But, whatever, doesn't really affect me - keep your eye on the prize - work like its all up to you, pray like its all up to God. You'll get there.
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  • Profile picture of the author debbiechamilton
    Thanks Sal for your valuable post. Thanks to all the members who responded. I am a Newbie. I have to say I have received some very inspiring, informing information since i joined the Forum. I do agree we do not need the negative naysayers. However, some are needed to open all of our eyes. I like the idea of using it to cater better to your clients. I do this same thing for my husband's business.. I have little savvy on the net and my thoughts help him to see how a newbie would look at his sites. Thanks to all.
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Call them what you like, they are all the same...

      Negative Nellies
      Blood suckers
      Party poopers

      Left unattended, they can suck the life out of you. Not just on here, but in every aspect of your life. As crazy as this may sound - if not paranoid - there are people currently in your life who envy you for whatever reason, and whilst giving you the appearance of support, are actually trying to bring you down a peg or two. It helps absolve them of their own shortcomings.

      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

      I do not think there is any such thing as a dream thief, but more so there are some people who are unsure where they are going and such fall prey to another persons rubbish instead of being in control of their own destiny and or purpose.
      Yes, Miles, this one gets me also. People want to learn from gurus how to be better marketers and make money, yet they hate it when it's done to them.

      Simple solution: Instead of complaining, watch what they do and emulate it. I always encourage students to follow how I present a program so that they get an insight into the marketing aspects.

      Originally Posted by MilesT View Post

      Right on, Sal.

      It's the "Guru bashers" that get to me. You don't see them bashing the best doctors, or the best pizza in town, but they'll bash any marketer that's doing it harder and smarter than everyone else. Bummer.

      But, whatever, doesn't really affect me - keep your eye on the prize - work like its all up to you, pray like its all up to God. You'll get there.
      Amen to this... Well put, common sense advice.

      Originally Posted by DogBite View Post

      Yes, there are dream thieves out there and there are those here who are really helping.

      Brings to mind the old saying "if it sounds too good to be true it probably is."

      The people who want to bring everyone down to their level are both online and offline. You will find them everywhere. Protect your mind, keep a positive out look and... "Don't let anyone steal your dream!"

      If you want it enough to make it a burning desire, you will figure out how to get it. Remember a business takes work. You will have to do something or learn something to get where you want to go. Otherwise you'd already be there.
      You are most welcome. I hope this thread is helpful to you. Good luck with your venture. We are here to help (well most of us are).

      Originally Posted by debbiechamilton View Post

      Thanks Sal for your valuable post. Thanks to all the members who responded. I am a Newbie. I have to say I have received some very inspiring, informing information since i joined the Forum. I do agree we do not need the negative naysayers. However, some are needed to open all of our eyes. I like the idea of using it to cater better to your clients. I do this same thing for my husband's business.. I have little savvy on the net and my thoughts help him to see how a newbie would look at his sites. Thanks to all.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nero Arcnumé
    Actually, I think a couple of those negative threads could have positive side-effects. But I'm not all that active in most of the sub fora here to know how many of those negative threads are actually out there.

    Anyway, my point being, if a fresh IMer found this forum and is reading some threads, perhaps he stumbles upon a negative thread on "why OTOs suck". In that thread you'll have the natural ranting opening post. But following that post will also be posts by IMers on the other side, saying that OTOs can be good if they are used correctly etc. This, in my opinion, could lead to more correct usage of OTOs by those newbies because they have been confronted with that thread surround the topic.

    Although, maybe not every newbie in town will follow the advice on how to correctly implement an OTO but it might be a nice source of information nonetheless.

    But yeah, if each page on the forum has multiple "OTOs suck" threads, I can see why the situation bothers many.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tony Marriott
      Originally Posted by Nero Arcnumé View Post

      Actually, I think a couple of those negative threads could have positive side-effects. But I'm not all that active in most of the sub fora here to know how many of those negative threads are actually out there.

      Anyway, my point being, if a fresh IMer found this forum and is reading some threads, perhaps he stumbles upon a negative thread on "why OTOs suck". In that thread you'll have the natural ranting opening post. But following that post will also be posts by IMers on the other side, saying that OTOs can be good if they are used correctly etc. This, in my opinion, could lead to more correct usage of OTOs by those newbies because they have been confronted with that thread surround the topic.

      Although, maybe not every newbie in town will follow the advice on how to correctly implement an OTO but it might be a nice source of information nonetheless.

      But yeah, if each page on the forum has multiple "OTOs suck" threads, I can see why the situation bothers many.
      I don't think people arguing in thread is good pointer to the best marketing practices.

      Just because one (or a few) people shout, rant and rave, it does not mean that they reflect the views of the majority. I know that any "survey" of people's thoughts and ideas are only likely to come from a minority of the group but only listening to "those that shout loudest" can't possibly be good marketing plan.

      In an argument you are mostly going to get the extremists (for and against). The real market is everyone in between.
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  • Profile picture of the author Geeked Labs
    I always wondered what dream thieves got out of the equation besides the temporary feeling of "I am better than you"
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    It's like a quick heroin fix for them. They laugh and move on having left their "scent" by squirting in the corners but the stench lingers for days sometimes weeks and in some cases forever. Similar to someone you invited for a visit taking a dump right in your living room and then arguing "it's a natural bodily function!". Yes, it's natural but it's hardly the point or doesn't make it excusable, acceptable or ignorable.

    Imagine if someone did that in your hourse and when you complained and got upset people's advice was "just ignore them - they will go away. What does it matter anyway? As long as you use the toilet what does it matter what other people do and where they do it. Just move on and ignore it. Eventually it will stop stinking."

    It won't stop stinking until you remove it (and the person who done it) from your living area and preferably from your life.
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    • Profile picture of the author frankm
      So the "dream thieves" leave a stench but the "dream promoters" don't????

      Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

      It's like a quick heroin fix for them. They laugh and move on having left their "scent" by squirting in the corners but the stench lingers for days sometimes weeks and in some cases forever. Similar to someone you invited for a visit taking a dump right in your living room and then arguing "it's a natural bodily function!". Yes, it's natural but it's hardly the point or doesn't make it excusable, acceptable or ignorable.

      Imagine if someone did that in your hourse and when you complained and got upset people's advice was "just ignore them - they will go away. What does it matter anyway? As long as you use the toilet what does it matter what other people do and where they do it. Just move on and ignore it. Eventually it will stop stinking."

      It won't stop stinking until you remove it (and the person who done it) from your living area and preferably from your life.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    There are basically two kinds of people in the world.

    There are people who have problems because the world is conspiring against them.

    And there are people who have problems because we ALL have problems.

    They are the same problems.

    Here endeth the lesson.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    Originally Posted by frankm View Post

    So the "dream thieves" leave a stench but the "dream promoters" don't????
    Exactly correct. Unless the promoters are liars.

    It depends on your description of "dream" I guess. For me it was a dream to never have to go back to work again. Had no one helped me along the way with techniques, methods and systems which I bought from "dream promoters" I would never have got here.

    If by "dream promoters" you mean liars who promote instant fantasty life they are thieves not dream promoters. The dream can be as simple of a life working from home. For most people that would be plenty.
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    • Profile picture of the author frankm
      Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

      Exactly correct. Unless the promoters are liars.

      It depends on your description of "dream" I guess. For me it was a dream to never have to go back to work again. Had no one helped me along the way with techniques, methods and systems which I bought from "dream promoters" I would never have got here.

      If by "dream promoters" you mean liars who promote instant fantasty life they are thieves not dream promoters. The dream can be as simple of a life working from home. For most people that would be plenty.
      Yes, the real thieves are the ones who promote he dream as the way of achieving their own dreams, the ones who teach marketing or make money before actually doing it, the ones who recycle useless information.

      The dream thieves being discussed in this thread are much closer to the truth than the promoters. Yes, money can be made online but in reality only 1-2% will do so. The remaining 98% contribute their savings to the pool of money available to the 1-2% until they realise that they've been had by the exaggerated promotion of the dream.

      They can then accept the losses and accept that their lives actually weren't that bad in the first place, or they can become dream promoters and recoup their losses from the next wave of newcomers.

      It's all pretty incestuous and animal-like, and that's why I'm thankful for those who say that it can't be done.

      And whatever about the above, it certainly can't be done with 3 clicks and 15 minutes a day...
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      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        Um... I was just referring to people who are just negative.

        But carry on. All valid points.

        The promoters you refer to aren't dream thieves as I see it... they are more blood sucking vampires.

        Different breed altogether. It's the ones peddling false systems.

        Most offer real opportunities and just because you try and fail, they are not thieves.

        Originally Posted by frankm View Post

        Yes, the real thieves are the ones who promote he dream as the way of achieving their own dreams, the ones who teach marketing or make money before actually doing it, the ones who recycle useless information.

        The dream thieves being discussed in this thread are much closer to the truth than the promoters. Yes, money can be made online but in reality only 1-2% will do so. The remaining 98% contribute their savings to the pool of money available to the 1-2% until they realise that they've been had by the exaggerated promotion of the dream.

        They can then accept the losses and accept that their lives actually weren't that bad in the first place, or they can become dream promoters and recoup their losses from the next wave of newcomers.

        It's all pretty incestuous and animal-like, and that's why I'm thankful for those who say that it can't be done.

        And whatever about the above, it certainly can't be done with 3 clicks and 15 minutes a day...
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  • Profile picture of the author RatRaceWatch
    I wouldn't call them dream thieves because like you posting this thread, they are exercising their freedom of speech.

    You, me, everyone has a choice what we let through the door and what we choose to engage in. If someone has a complaint about something, by all means let them say it.

    Remember it isn't all sunshine and butterflies. And I'd rather see negative with the positive because it helps me rule out something being suspicious.

    I know this because I'm well aware there is a bad side to internet marketing as well as a good. There are also tons of scams out there, there are tons of people that fail, and there are tons of people that are angry and legitimately upset.

    It's called being human. And no one should ever put a stop to that.

    Just like I wouldn't blame you for posting this thread. It's your right. Your PO'd about it, stir the pot a little bit, talk to people that feel the same, and hence life goes on.

    But I will respectfully disagree in the grand scheme of things. I want to see the positive, the negative, including the extremes.

    In the end I'll filter out what I think is right or wrong mixed in with my experience through trials.

    Cheers to freedom of speech,

    Ryan
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      As stated in my OP, free speech dictates that we tolerate them, but that does not change the fact that negativity is a destructive force.

      Thx for dropping in.

      Originally Posted by RatRaceWatch View Post

      I wouldn't call them dream thieves because like you posting this thread, they are exercising their freedom of speech.

      You, me, everyone has a choice what we let through the door and what we choose to engage in. If someone has a complaint about something, by all means let them say it.

      Remember it isn't all sunshine and butterflies. And I'd rather see negative with the positive because it helps me rule out something being suspicious.

      I know this because I'm well aware there is a bad side to internet marketing as well as a good. There are also tons of scams out there, there are tons of people that fail, and there are tons of people that are angry and legitimately upset.

      It's called being human. And no one should ever put a stop to that.

      Just like I wouldn't blame you for posting this thread. It's your right. Your PO'd about it, stir the pot a little bit, talk to people that feel the same, and hence life goes on.

      But I will respectfully disagree in the grand scheme of things. I want to see the positive, the negative, including the extremes.

      In the end I'll filter out what I think is right or wrong mixed in with my experience through trials.

      Cheers to freedom of speech,

      Ryan
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      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
        Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

        As stated in my OP, free speech dictates that we tolerate them, but that does not change the fact that negativity is a destructive force.

        Thx for dropping in.
        Was going to comment on this originally but didn't. Since you brought it up again...

        I don't have to tolerate anyone's speech. The concept of 'freedom of speech' is a restriction placed on government by the governed, not between individuals. I can use any lawful means available to get you (the collective 'you') to shut up. Admittedly, that doesn't leave me a lot of options.

        The court of public opinion can be very powerful, and 'freedom of speech' laws don't apply to that body.
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  • Nothing works, not even wishful thinking. I'm doomed to be blind, a world of darkness, forever. I'll just go ahead and kill myself now, right after I pass my $10K monthly net profit outsourcing company and $XXXK growing assets and investments to my wife, so she and my daughter can equip themselves with everything they need to live a prosperous life, with loads of insurance... Oh wait... Now I have to stage my death as a natural death. Okay, okay: I'll just formulate a plan for this to work. I'll put it off 'til next month, or more, since split testing wouldn't be possible. I'll send an update to you guys from purgatory...
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
      Originally Posted by Marx Vergel Melencio View Post

      [...]
      Oh wait... Now I have to stage my death as a natural death. Okay, okay: I'll just formulate a plan for this to work. I'll put it off 'til next month, or more, since split testing wouldn't be possible.
      [...]
      That IS quite a conundrum...
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  • Profile picture of the author andy moore
    Alan made a great point about newbies coming on here too early. I came on here about 2 years ago fresh from my new dream of becoming an IM millionaire within weeks. I saw some of the posts, wet my pants, left and never came back till recently.

    I now have much more confidence and not afraid of winners, losers or like most of us, stuck in the middle.

    But I do agree that negativity, wherever found and blasted at us, is a complete turn off . It takes a special person to ignore it and get on with what we are doing. Focus is obviously the key...and mixing with the right company, good company, encouraging company.

    I now ignore the naysayers and move on. It has worked for me and I learn more new stuff each day.

    So my message is. Set the targets for the day, week and month and just go for it! Focus!

    Best Wishes
    Andy Moore
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Dagnabbit Sal64,

    I was about to make another rant about OTOs, gurus, pop ups, etc. but you stole my dream with your OP.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author Elizabeth Fee
    Love your post Sal. I am actually one of those that waited to join for over a year after tackling the Internet Marketing journey. Only because I really wanted to get my feet wet and gain a true appreciation for the amount of work it takes to truly make it. Am I successful now? Not yet. But I can taste it.

    I have seen through the many mistakes I've made how Internet Marketing is an amazing business, once you put in the time to learn from your failures. And actually put in the time to make something happen.

    I think far too many people expect to get into this and make their millions over night. So when that doesn't happen, they immediately think the worst.

    The first step is to surround yourself with positive and genuine people (like you). If it weren't for people much like yourself, I probably would have fallen to the depths of despair that any business can take someone when surrounded only by negativity. Thanks again for posting this!!

    Elizabeth

    P.S. I will always consider myself a "newbie" in Internet Marketing. This is such a dynamic world full of thousands of ideas and techniques that I find myself learning about each day. My goal is to change my status from "newbie" to "successful newbie".
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  • Profile picture of the author chris1985
    lol, bro. well said
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Harper
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Being positive doesn't mean living in wonderland. The real dream thieves are those who prey on the wonderland dwellers.
    I had a response planned, but this is far more succinct.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
    A wise man once said "Goals are Just Dreams With a Deadline", and I couldn't agree more.

    There are 1000's of Warriors who had dreams in our field, set them in their mind as goals to be achieved, and now make a great living in IM.

    I'm one of those Warriors, and I agree with everything Sal said.

    The "Dream thieves" do nothing but harm the endless possibilities for wealth and information this amazing forum provides.

    Ignore those who tell you it's not possible...keep the dream alive everybody!
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      Dagnabbit Sal64,

      I was about to make another rant about OTOs, gurus, pop ups, etc. but you stole my dream with your OP.

      RoD
      Big brother is watching you Rod. be afraid... be very afraid!

      Originally Posted by feetwins View Post


      The first step is to surround yourself with positive and genuine people (like you). If it weren't for people much like yourself, I probably would have fallen to the depths of despair that any business can take someone when surrounded only by negativity. Thanks again for posting this!!
      Thank you for the kind words. This part in particular is very important.

      Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post


      The "Dream thieves" do nothing but harm the endless possibilities for wealth and information this amazing forum provides.

      Ignore those who tell you it's not possible...keep the dream alive everybody!
      Hey Luke. Well said.
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  • Profile picture of the author MattVit
    I don't see anything wrong with saying some elements of the IM industry is a fraud or being negative towards a particular topic, provided that it is specific and draws on evidence and has reasonable, logical arguments. It's nice to also add advice to that, but not necessary.

    - Opinion.
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    • Words for me to live by, from Jon Morrow:

      No, it won't be easy. At some point, I guarantee you'll want to quit. I guarantee people will treat you like you're insane. I guarantee you'll cry yourself to sleep, wondering if you made a horrible mistake...
      But never stop believing in yourself. The world is full of naysayers, all of them eager to shout you down at the slightest indication you might transcend mediocrity, but the greatest sin you can commit is to yourself become one of them. Our job isn't to join that group, but to silence it, to accomplish things so great and unimaginable that its members are too awed to speak...

      A story for me to keep my motivation, also from Jon Morrow:

      How to Quit Your Job, Move to Paradise and Get Paid to Change the World
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  • Profile picture of the author zachary0611
    I have seen some great WSO's lately and I am very impressed how people are thinking out of the box now.
    I think the Warrior forum produces better products than a lot of other market places, because to stand out now you have to produce the goods and plus fellow Warriors will rip you to shreds your product is crap. lol
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