Rant: What's With All of the $hitty Customer Service?

15 years ago

Mike,

I would have to agree. Obviously there is no reason for crappy customer service, except I did read an article , I forget where, but what was discussed were a few things:

1) Even with the worse CS, refund rates will never equal to sales, meaning there would never be a 100% refund rate, so merchants, may assume that if i sell 1,000 units at $37, and 800 refund, I still make $7,400 doing nothing.

2) The loopholes of Paypal, a service can take a long time, I enver expect internet services that will take longer then 3 months where I have to pay 50% or in full, because after 60 days paypal is no help in receiving your money back

3) They talked about how good your CS is, and that it is creating expectations amongst people you deal with ... lol

Two cents

Word

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jmidas

15 years ago

Sometimes I get the feeling that online marketers/businesses do not feel the need to provide the same customer service as off line businesses. Not sure why, but I see it all the time, too.

Here's my mini-rant: I have become convinced that whenever I see a "support ticket" type of system on a company's site that I will never get decent support. For some reason most of the ones I have ever had to use provide the worst service, or just ignore you all together.I know this is not true of everyone who has this kind of customer support, but this has been overwhelmingly my experience - almost as if they use it a way to hide from their customers. These are same ones who do not provide an email or telephone number either - you submit a ticket and it goes into the ether.

Anyway, I agree with you. You are not alone in your thoughts.

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Steven Carl Kelly 15 years ago

Originally Posted by jmidas

Here's my mini-rant: I have become convinced that whenever I see a "support ticket" type of system on a company's site that I will never get decent support.

I submitted a ticket the other day to a company and the "thank you" screen said that someone would respond to my ticket within 7-10 working days.
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Frank Ayres

15 years ago

I know how you feel i am constantly chasing people up that are doing freelancing jobs for me and it seems to defy the point of outsourcing if i spend all my time chasing people.
With the current climate you would think people would be glad of the work

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Scot Standke

15 years ago

I think part of the problem is, after a successful launch, a lot of these folks are not fully prepared for the inundation of support tickets.

They simply do not have the support staff in place to take care of the influx of tickets or e-mails.

Scot

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Lance K 15 years ago
Personally, I try to always get at least one instant messanger ID for any freelancer I hire. And I make it known up front that I'll be checking in frequently (sometimes daily) for progress reports. Not to pester or annoy them, but to keep them focused and moving. Because if they deliver on schedule and on spec, they'll get paid in full...quickly.

This works especially great at sites like rent a coder where the money is held in escrow and you don't have to release it to the freelancer until the work is done to your satisfaction. I make it known up front that this is the way that it'll be. And if they complete the job on time and on spec I'll release the funds immediately and provide positive feedback through the RAC rating system.

The key is to be very detailed in exactly what you want, communicate your intentions, and above all else make it known that you intend to be fair and only get involved in win-win projects.

Even then you'll have some disasters. But not near as many.

Also, I NEVER
- hire the first freelancer to submit a bid
- hire anyone with less than a 9 for feedback
- hire anyone that has completed less than 5 similar projects (for 5 different customers)
And if the project isn't too costly (rarely is on RAC), I'll hire more than one bidder to do the same project. Then you can see who does the best quality work, who meets deadlines, who communicates, etc. and file their name away for the next project. Then just invite them to bid every time you post a similar project. AND PAY BONUSES TO THE GOOD ONES!!!

Also, if I find a freelancer through a site like RAC, I ALWAYS use RAC when working with them. It's tempting to just contact them privately, but you lose the protection of having the money in escrow and RAC's support in working out disputes.
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- Neil Morgan 15 years ago
  
  Sometimes I get the feeling that online marketers/businesses do not feel the need to provide the same customer service as off line businesses.
  
  Yeah, like my multi-billion pound energy provider with call centres all over the country and hundreds, if not thousands of customer support staff. They said:
  
  "We aim to respond to customer emails within 5 business days."
  
  Cheers,
  
  Neil
  
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  Jason Moffatt 15 years ago
  
  I hear ya bro.
  
  It's amazing how hard it is to give away money nowadays!
  
  One thing that has skyrocketed our business (and we don't even have 80% of our stuff ready yet) is the fact we have LIVE customer support mon - friday on my ProfitMoffatt.com site.
  
  You can chat with Ryan live anytime he's in the office, or even call the office phone direct.
  
  By putting ourselves out in the public eye, our customers KNOW that we'll never try and duck them or avoid any conflicts or questions they may have. We are here to HELP.
  
  Sadly, not everyone is so upfront and accessible.
  
  Big mistake in my opinion.
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
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  ladyjane 15 years ago
  
  Poor customer service irks me no end. Even in the offline world, my husband and I have a rule that we'll NEVER go back to any shop or other business that provided poor customer service, including encounters with rude clerks. We're getting quite a list of places we can't patronize anymore! It's amazing how many businesses just don't seem to care about good customer service. It's not just an online phenomenon. We see it all the time out in the real world, too.
  
  Certain shops at the mall, certain auto repair centers, certain hotels, and even certain doctors are all on our list of businesses to never use again due to their bad attitudes and poor customer service.
  
  On the other hand, when we find a business that provides GOOD customer service, we use it again and again, quite loyally! When you find good customer service, hold onto it! It's like finding good friend these days--it's pretty rare, and VERY valuable!
  
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  Nathan Hangen 15 years ago
  
  I'm having the same problems. I've had 3-4 projects out for a week now that were all supposed to be delivered within 3 days. I don't like excuses and I don't tolerate them. If you take the job and tell me it will be 3 days, then it better be 3 days. If you can't meet a deadline, then be honest and more than likely I will have no problem, but lying and making excuses just ticks me off.
  
  When my customers email me, they get a "set in stone" deadline and I keep in constant communication with them to give them updates and a status report. It isn't that hard and that (imo) is what keeps them coming back.
  
  Thanks
  
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shreekay85

15 years ago

hahah..i get what you mean mike,but sometimes people are just busy,cant hold it against them.it takes awhile sumtimes to get back to people when you are getting bombarded by emails daily(like i usually get around 20-30 emails for pleas of free coaching and help,etc,etc)..you should stay in my country for a week mate.here the customer is always wrong and we have campaigns to remind people to be courteous..

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MikeHumphreys

15 years ago

Originally Posted by shreekay85

hahah..i get what you mean mike,but sometimes people are just busy,cant hold it against them.it takes awhile sumtimes to get back to people when you are getting bombarded by emails daily(like i usually get around 20-30 emails for pleas of free coaching and help,etc,etc)..you should stay in my country for a week mate.here the customer is always wrong and we have campaigns to remind people to be courteous..

I understand busy. A typical day for me starts at 6 a.m. and ends around 1-1:30 a.m. My wife and I have 2 kids under the age of 3 and I work from home.

I'm insanely busy... that's why I outsource as much as I can.

But even when I'm trying to finish a client project on the day it's due, I still answer my clients emails. It could be as simple as saying that I'll get back to them the next day b/c I'm trying to meet a deadline. I don't leave them guessing if I got their email/v-mail or not.

Mike

P.S. Got a PM from the graphic designer. Turns out his computer has been out of commission.

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Mike,
Maybe you should stop hiring people from a freelance site when this forum alone has what you need.

I am a graphics design and a website developer both.. But I do not work for peanuts...

There are plenty of good trusted developers and graphic designers on this very forum. Why anyone would run to a freelance site when there are professionals right in front on you is byond me unless you looking for "cheap" prices. But hey .. you get what you pay for.

James

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MikeHumphreys

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Mike,
Maybe you should stop hiring people from a freelance site when this forum alone has what you need.

I am a graphics design and a website developer both.. But I do not work for peanuts...

There are plenty of good trusted developers and graphic designers on this very forum. Why anyone would run to a freelance site when there are professionals right in front on you is byond me unless you looking for "cheap" prices. But hey .. you get what you pay for.

James

You're right... but then I don't hire cheap. I hire people who I can count on delivering when they say they will and show that I can rely on them.

I charge my copywriting clients $5K for a sales letter, so like you, I don't work for peanuts.

Neither does the graphic designer that I'm referring to. He's a Warrior. So is the rising star.

After trying 6 different programmers, including the infamous rip-off artist PHP Andy from the Warrior Forum (he ripped off a lot of Warriors, inlcuding me), I went to Rent-A-Coder route.

Before RAC, I talked to another dozen programmers, most of them Warriors, and none of them were interested in developing the product for me.

Mike

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

You're right... but then I don't hire cheap. I hire people who I can count on delivering when they say they will and show that I can rely on them.

I charge my copywriting clients $5K for a sales letter, so like you, I don't work for peanuts.

Neither does the graphic designer that I'm referring to. He's a Warrior. So is the rising star.

After trying 6 different programmers, including the infamous rip-off artist PHP Andy from the Warrior Forum (he ripped off a lot of Warriors, inlcuding me), I went to Rent-A-Coder route.

Before RAC, I talked to another dozen programmers, most of them Warriors, and none of them were interested in developing the product for me.

Mike

Again depends upon who you deal with, get to know some people first .. a freelance site does not offer that ability.

Personally myself when I build a site for the client here is what happens.

* I build the structure (design and layout)
* Client then has full access to the site as it is being built
* Client has ability to test as the site is being built
* I am on IM all day, normally 18 hours a day 7 days a week. Client has full access to me.
* Site is built and testing is done by myself, my staff, and the client
* The site is then installed and goes live on the clients server
* I then provide lifetime support

Basically it's that simple.. Now not everybody is the same, I am also a very busy person but when I take on a job to do a site that is what I do "Build The Site" I do not run around trying to find more work.

James

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Lance K

15 years ago

You sound like a premium service provider, James. One that deserves a premium fee because of the value you provide.

I don't know why more people don't follow your full access via IM policy. It's pretty appealing and comforting as a client.

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Again depends upon who you deal with, get to know some people first .. a freelance site does not offer that ability.

Personally myself when I build a site for the client here is what happens.

* I build the structure (design and layout)
* Client then has full access to the site as it is being built
* Client has ability to test as the site is being built
* I am on IM all day, nomrally 18 hours a day 7 days a week. Client has full access to me.
* Site is built and testing is done by myself, my staff, and the client
* The site is then installed and goes live on the clients server
* I then provide lifeime support

Basically it's that simple.. Now not everybody is the same, I am also a very busy person but when I take on a job to do a site that is what I do "Build The Site" I do not run around trying to find more work.

James

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Lance K

15 years ago

James,

What you say about the WF is true, but your comments about freelance sites are full of assumptions and generalizations.

Like I said earlier, for one thing, with RAC you don't release the funds until the project is done to spec. Which you can also do with WF members. But with RAC you have the added protection of arbitration if needed.

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

There are plenty of good trusted developers and graphic designers on this very forum. Why anyone would run to a freelance site when there are professionals right in front on you is byond me unless you looking for "cheap" prices. But hey .. you get what you pay for.

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

James,

What you say about the WF is true, but your comments about freelance sites are full of assumptions and generalizations.

Like I said earlier, for one thing, with RAC you don't release the funds until the project is done to spec. Which you can also do with WF members. But with RAC you have the added protection of arbitration if needed.

Lance I made no assumption ... Ha.. I am a member of a freelance site and have a massive perfect feedback rating. I dislike freelance sites though because there is way too much scamming going on.

What it boils down to is know who you deal with, it's that simple.. If someone has been on this forum selling great products, has good feedback, has been involved and helped out others then that gives you a big advantage over those freelance sites where you can not tell that..

I repeat and no I am not looking for business here.. There are plenty of great and honest members here that can do everything you need. Many graphic designers and developers, but also realize that people can not work for $2 an hour.. Quality, Security, Support is what matters..

James

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Lance K

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Lance I made no assumption

Actually, you did. When you implied that the since the WF has many great professionals, the only reason someone would use a freelance site is to get something done on the cheap.

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

Actually, you did. When you implied that the since the WF has many great professionals, the only reason someone would use a freelance site is to get something done on the cheap.

I am a developer of over 15 years Lance, I stopped with freelance sites because of the fact that many many buyers want to pay $100 for a $5,000 website.. I have been with a popular freelance site since it began and $10,000's of dollars have went through my account.. but about a year ago it started getting real bad with cheap buyers.

Toss in the scammers that claim they can do this and that when infact they can't and then those scammers use stolen scripts and charge $1 an hour, it creates many problems for honest and real developers. I have seen so many people ripped off just to come back to me after being ripped off, the reason why they did not go with me to begin with was because they wanted to be cheap. When they came back to me I refused to work with them.. They did not trust me anough to begin with so why come back after being ripped off when I infact offered the solution to them on a silver platter.

I can promise you there are many developers here will agree with what I posted because they, just like me have lived it..

Bottom line -- Get to know someone first, feedback on a freelance sites does not mean anything. Feedback from a "real" person does. You have the ability right here on the forum to deal directly with someone, get to know them, see how they do, ask others about them, and etc ... You see lance no freelance site can do that.

I did not assume anything on the OP -- I made factual statements....

James

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Lance K

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Bottom line -- Get to know someone first, feedback on a freelance sites does not mean anything. Feedback from a "real" person does. You have the ability right here on the forum to deal directly with someone, get to know them, see how they do, ask others about them, and etc ... You see lance no freelance site can do that.

James, I'm not trying to discount your experience. As a matter of fact, I agree with most of that. In fact that's why I chose a Warrior for my latest coding project over RAC bidders. But I've used RAC before and the intent was not solely to get the project done cheaply. And I had a good experience all but 1 time.

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BIG Mike

Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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keyaziz 15 years ago

Agh..I know how you feel - I have been waiting about a month to receive the psd files to my graphics..and I am getting pretty tired of no responses.
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Nathan Hangen

15 years ago

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

Mike,

Years ago, before I really decided what I wanted to do online, I played around at Rent A Coder as a freelancer. I was the top coder there for nearly a year and literally "Stole" business away from thousands of other coders and significantly higher prices than they could ever get.

And once I nailed a project, that buyer never went anywhere else for his or her other projects. In fact, I was getting so much business out of there, it was becoming too much a like a job and I backed off eventually (although it was actually a lot of fun).

Buyers didn't come back to me again and again for my programming skills (which are great anyways), or because I consistently delivered on time (I always did), or because I routinely gave them far more value for their buck than other coders (always went the extra mile). Above all else, there was only one single reason why I blew away the competition there:

C O M M U N I C A T I O N

I made an effort to keep the buyer in the loop every single day, giving progress reports, asking questions, offering my own ideas, etc., etc.. If I promised deliver on a certain date, I delivered...period. I went the extra mile to provide documentation, support and leaving the buyer delighted with working with me.

I'm not saying that to brag, because it's something ANYONE with half a brain can do the same thing easily. But it's still the single greatest thing lacking today across most industries, whether they're freelancers or not. The problem is exacerbated among most freelancers because they don't have anyone looking over their shoulder guiding them or pressing them to provide real service.

In the service business, a customer needs to feel like they're your only customer, and they need to feel that you've taken personal ownership of their project. Given the ease and zero cost of communicating via email and Skype, there is NO excuse for failing to communicate.

So for all you freelancers out there, learn to work with your customers instead of against them, if you're serious about building and maintaining a great reputation in your field of expertise.

It's easy - hop on Skype and call your customers today with an update!

Nail meet Hammer

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radhika

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

What's with all of the terrible customer service lately? Or I am just the lone customer out there getting all of the lousy customer service?

You are not alone

Recently I am looking for a software to buy. But I am not sure that actually integrate in to my product. So I sent few emails to the merchant. After 3rd email, he sent me a link to pay for Presale Customer service.

Then I figured out that this will not work out ... After buying it, if sends a link for every n email, I will end up payng lot more than the product. So I went ahead and created a simple product for myself.

.

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Brad Spencer

15 years ago

<reply to rant>

Basically, people don't realize that service is the only true differentiator in business anymore.

You can always find someone better or cheaper or both.

However, service...TRUE service is rare.

Why do people come to Disney World 10 times in their childhood? Attention to detail and service (which creates amazing experiences...which gets them to come back).

Being a cast member, I see this all the time. I'm amazed by the service I give out and how the STUPIDEST little things MAKE people's day.

What if you took a little bit of that magic and put it into your business. Talk about die hard consumers of everything you sell.

People who don't provide service (that is what freelancers are supposed to do) just suck at business. They don't get it.

Service sells and that is the ticket to the good life

</reply to rant>

Cheers,

Brad Spencer

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TeamGlobal

15 years ago

Hi Mike,

I can really relate to your statement:

"What's with all of the terrible customer service lately? Or I am just the lone customer out there getting all of the lousy customer service?"

Believe me you are not alone. It's almost as if some people just don't take any pride in their work or the way they do business.

Unfortunately this includes some very talented people. I've had some of them even try to justify going way past the deadline with such statements as, "I know that I haven't finished your project yet, but where else could you get this kind of quality at this price?"

I think any lack of communication is frustrating for all of us when we deal with outsourcing.
Recently a talented freelancer contacted me to tell me that there might be a slight delay because our current project was more complex than any projects we had worked on together.

I was delighted that this person "kept me in the loop" by giving me a heads up on a potential delay. As it turns out the delay turned out to be insignificant, but knowing what to expect made all the difference in the world.

All The Best,

Tony

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Rant: What's With All of the $hitty Customer Service?

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