Why you should never pay more than $5 for an article

173 replies
Every once in a while, a thread gets posted asking where a person can buy cheap articles.

And each time a thread like that starts, the poster has to face the scrutiny of the warrior writers... who make a lot of excellent points on why it's a bad idea to pay less than $5 for an article.

But I felt like playing devil's advocate: I went ahead and thought about the benefits of getting a $5 article and wrote up a full blog post exploring the thought. Here's part of it:


5 reasons why you should never pay more than $5 for an article


-$5 article writers don't waste your time with pesky research. If you want to look like an innovator in your market, the best thing to do is pay someone to copy and rehash the same tired material that's been written a million times before! Research? Bah. Let a $5 article writer search Google and copy another person's article, and just throw in a few sexy adjectives to make sure it slides by Copyscape.

-$5 articles only take a few minutes to create. Most writers can type 60 words per minute, so after 9 minutes, you should already have a 560 word article! I mean, sure it's gibberish, but as long as they get the keyword density to 3-5%, who cares? Plus, most of the time, they simply use PLRs or spin some content - that takes only 3-4 minutes tops! Heck, you could even set up your dog at the keyboard if you feel up to it. What's the difference?

-$5 articles are great for filling up empty space. It's not like you actually want to sell anything or get loyal readers!. All that matters is you put up something on your website so that people casually passing by don't ask themselves "Why is this page empty?"

-$5 articles help you pretend you're saving money. I mean, of course you're going to have to spend several hours of your own time sorting through plagiarized and unreadable work, and have to go through $100-$200 worth of $5 articles till you find one semi-legible...but unreadable or not, more is always better.

-$5 articles give you a chance to brush up on your grammar proofing skills Here's a fun way to spend the day: cozy up with a glass of Merlot and pull out your red pen as you get to work spending endless hours fixing treasures such as 'I you have ladies shoes is a good way to buy them for feet' and 'Weight loss pro is a good because is for weight loser.' Heck, after you spend a few intense hours working on them, the article might even become readable!



(Be honest -- did the thread title make you grind your teeth a little? )
#article #cheap article #cheap writing #fast article #pay
  • I've sold a number of $5 articles on Fiverr, on niches in which I am an expert. I assure you they were all researched and handwritten by me. I stopped doing it because I found they were mostly being commissioned by people who were putting up sites to sell counterfeit designer jewelry and handbags.

    As a buyer of articles written to order for my blog, I have received excellent work for $5.

    But hey, if you can manipulate buyer perception and prop up your chosen price scale, more power to ya.

    fLufF
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    • Profile picture of the author DanielleLynnCopy
      Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

      I've sold a number of $5 articles on Fiverr, on niches in which I am an expert. I assure you they were all researched and handwritten by me. I stopped doing it because I found they were mostly being commissioned by people who were putting up sites to sell counterfeit designer jewelry and handbags.

      As a buyer of articles written to order for my blog, I have received excellent work for $5.

      But hey, if you can manipulate buyer perception and prop up your chosen price scale, more power to ya.

      fLufF
      --
      Hi fLufF,

      I actually don't sell articles or write articles other than on my personal blog.

      But this isn't meant to be a jab at you, or any other talented writer

      Just a fun perspective for a commonly trampled on topic.

      And i have no doubt there ARE good article writers out there who sell articles for $5. But just as you have proven yourself - good writers don't stay at that price for long
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    • Profile picture of the author ksmusselman
      I pay LESS than $5 an article when I have to outsource it!

      I have a solid writer on oDesk that I go to when I need LESS THAN $5 articles and she is fantastic! Yes, she's in the Philippines; and her English grammar, punctuation and spelling are perfect and everything she's written for me is 100% original and passes Copyscape.

      She's even done rewrites for me that are excellent; she can take a crapload of notes on a subject and weave them into 600+ word articles that are beautiful - for less than $5. I've referred her to a few colleagues who also received excellent work from her and were happy for the referral.

      What anyone pays for an article - or what anyone is WILLING to pay for an article - is really subjective. No one can toss all $5 articles into the same "you-get-what-you-pay-for" bucket. It's just not fair to those who do the research or who can even write from experience and charge $5 - or less - for their work.

      That's like saying since I don't charge $3 per audio minute for my transcription, I must not be very good, when quite the opposite is true.
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      • Oh, I'd do more $5 articles for a project I believe in. There's a guy who runs a trout fishing site who is trying to get his site to rank -- and he was going about it entirely wrong by keyword-stuffing. I wrote some articles for him because I liked him and his business model. It's always about making connections.

        But for people who flout the counterfeiting laws? Feh. I don't want to know them.

        I think people are entitled to ask whatever price they wish for their services. I hope they get it.

        fLufF
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        • Profile picture of the author ksmusselman
          Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

          Oh, I'd do more $5 articles for a project I believe in. There's a guy who runs a trout fishing site who is trying to get his site to rank -- and he was going about it entirely wrong by keyword-stuffing. I wrote some articles for him because I liked him and his business model. It's always about making connections.

          But for people who flout the counterfeiting laws? Feh. I don't want to know them.

          I think people are entitled to ask whatever price they wish for their services. I hope they get it.

          fLufF
          --

          Excellent. What it all really boils down to is what an individual - not an industry - feels their time & effort is worth.

          Yes, the OP made some good points but I think those points are more suited to the often overused PLR and sometimes "spun" articles out there, but certainly can't be directed at $5 articles by any shade of the imagination.

          For instance, I paid someone a nice chunk o' change thinking the more I was paying, the better, right? Wrong. They had solid testimonials, good referrals and a high ticket price. I had the money at the time so I paid it. Hah. Should have gone with the bargain basement price to begin with because I had a better result.

          But why is it that way too many people think the price tag is what makes or doesn't make the content good? Price point has nothing to do with quality but has everything to do with your bottom line when you're in business, no matter what side of the coin you're on - buying or selling.

          And in today's economy, unfortunately, sometimes you can sell more of a lower priced quality item and make MORE money than by selling less of a higher priced item!

          Last weekend my husband put his custom lighted jars and bottles on a deep discount sale for just $3 a piece. They normally sell for $15-$18 online.

          We sold 24 of them. Now, we were a heck of a lot happier walking away with $72 than the weekend before when we sold ONE for $15. Do the math. And since most all of our supplies are virtually free, we were still ahead of the game!

          I raised my transcription rates in Jan. because people kept saying my work was so good I should raise my rates. I lost two clients who went elsewhere for less. So who's making the money now? And these people are perfectly satisfied with the lesser price. So while "Jane" is making money with MY former clients, I'm trying to find new clients in an economy where LESS is more!

          So now I'm on fiverr and in one week I had $200 sitting in my account versus ZERO in my account after raising my rates. Does that mean the quality of my work is less? Absolutely not.

          One of the first things you learn in business - any business - is this - you charge What The Market Will Bear. If nobody's buying at $X and everyone else is SELLING and making money at less than $X, then maybe it's time to rethink your price point. That's just good, logical business.

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          • Profile picture of the author Yogini
            Originally Posted by ksmusselman View Post


            And in today's economy, unfortunately, sometimes you can sell more of a lower priced quality item and make MORE money than by selling less of a higher priced item!

            Last weekend my husband put his custom lighted jars and bottles on a deep discount sale for just $3 a piece. They normally sell for $15-$18 online.

            We sold 24 of them. Now, we were a heck of a lot happier walking away with $72 than the weekend before when we sold ONE for $15. Do the math. And since most all of our supplies are virtually free, we were still ahead of the game!

            I raised my transcription rates in Jan. because people kept saying my work was so good I should raise my rates. I lost two clients who went elsewhere for less. So who's making the money now? And these people are perfectly satisfied with the lesser price. So while "Jane" is making money with MY former clients, I'm trying to find new clients in an economy where LESS is more!

            So now I'm on fiverr and in one week I had $200 sitting in my account versus ZERO in my account after raising my rates. Does that mean the quality of my work is less? Absolutely not.

            One of the first things you learn in business - any business - is this - you charge What The Market Will Bear. If nobody's buying at and everyone else is SELLING and making money at less than , then maybe it's time to rethink your price point. That's just good, logical business.

            I think these are all good points and I've gotten well-written articles for 5.00 each. Also customer acquisition can take a lot of time so having people come to you that are repeat business , even at a lower price can be worth it.

            I had a writer who raised her rates after taking a coaching program and found she did much less research for the articles. Each person you think of hiring needs to be evaluated individually for style and quality.

            Debbie
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          • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
            Originally Posted by ksmusselman View Post

            Excellent. What it all really boils down to is what an individual - not an industry - feels their time & effort is worth.

            ...
            One of the first things you learn in business - any business - is this - you charge What The Market Will Bear. If nobody's buying at and everyone else is SELLING and making money at less than , then maybe it's time to rethink your price point. That's just good, logical business.

            I'd say a better lesson would be to sell what your market considers valuable.

            For example, I can buy a cell phone at a number of different price points. However, if I want to talk and surf the Internet at the same time (saving me time and, possibly, frustration), I'm not going to be able to find those features (value) in a $25 burner.

            So, if I want to sell $5,000 worth of cell phones, I can either: sell a LOT of $25 phones, OR a lot less of $300 cell phones. It's not about "re-thinking your price point". It's about finding the best ROI.

            That's just logical, good business.
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      • Profile picture of the author TrafficFlow
        Originally Posted by ksmusselman View Post

        I pay LESS than $5 an article when I have to outsource it!

        I have a solid writer on oDesk that I go to when I need LESS THAN $5 articles and she is fantastic! Yes, she's in the Philippines; and her English grammar, punctuation and spelling are perfect and everything she's written for me is 100% original and passes Copyscape.

        She's even done rewrites for me that are excellent; she can take a crapload of notes on a subject and weave them into 600+ word articles that are beautiful - for less than $5. I've referred her to a few colleagues who also received excellent work from her and were happy for the referral.

        What anyone pays for an article - or what anyone is WILLING to pay for an article - is really subjective. No one can toss all $5 articles into the same "you-get-what-you-pay-for" bucket. It's just not fair to those who do the research or who can even write from experience and charge $5 - or less - for their work.

        That's like saying since I don't charge $3 per audio minute for my transcription, I must not be very good, when quite the opposite is true.
        I only need less than 10 articles per month. any chance you can share the name of this talented writer with me
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      • Profile picture of the author writeronthego
        Originally Posted by ksmusselman View Post

        I pay LESS than $5 an article when I have to outsource it!

        I have a solid writer on oDesk that I go to when I need LESS THAN $5 articles and she is fantastic! Yes, she's in the Philippines; and her English grammar, punctuation and spelling are perfect and everything she's written for me is 100% original and passes Copyscape.

        She's even done rewrites for me that are excellent; she can take a crapload of notes on a subject and weave them into 600+ word articles that are beautiful - for less than $5. I've referred her to a few colleagues who also received excellent work from her and were happy for the referral.

        What anyone pays for an article - or what anyone is WILLING to pay for an article - is really subjective. No one can toss all $5 articles into the same "you-get-what-you-pay-for" bucket. It's just not fair to those who do the research or who can even write from experience and charge $5 - or less - for their work.

        That's like saying since I don't charge $3 per audio minute for my transcription, I must not be very good, when quite the opposite is true.
        very well said!
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

      I stopped doing it because I found they were mostly being commissioned by people who were putting up sites to sell counterfeit designer jewelry and handbags.
      I found the same thing when I wrote articles for $7.50, but when I raised my prices to $25 an article, all those clients went away. Instead, I got to work for people who were building authority sites and Clickbank products.

      I never had to measure my keyword density or "percent unique" again, and when I raised my prices to $50 an article, all the people who wanted dozens of articles on the same topic went away too. (If I had to write one more damn article on IR-35 in the UK, I was going to scream.)

      But hey, if you like to write about the same boring crap over and over, more power to you.

      Incidentally, I have never written an article for $5 in my life, and when I first got to this forum everyone was complaining that there were so many 99 cent article writers you just plain couldn't charge more than $5 an article here no matter what you did.

      So I charged $7.50, then $15, then $20, then $25, and finally $50 an article. All within the space of six months. All right here in this forum, where you "just plain can't" charge that much for an article.

      Charge what you're worth and be worth what you charge, people will pay it. Always.
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      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
        I guess it all depends on what you define as "quality". And what you consider "research".

        Unless the client supplies all the necessary supporting information, I find that at least half my "writing" time is often spent on research. Assuming the client wants their article to say anything worth reading.

        So unless I'm writing filler fluff, I'd be writing for $2.50/pc. FAR less than minimum wage here.

        With all due respect to writers from other countries, I can't pay my (U.S.) bills writing at those rates.

        This is not about "manipulating buyer perception" and propping up "my chosen price scale". It's about how I place a realistic value on what my time is worth.
        I deliver well-written, grammatically correct writing which make my clients look good, boosts their credibility, and keeps their readers informed and happy. I meet deadlines, so my clients aren't left hung out to dry. I'm a writer, yes, but that's not what my real business is.

        MY business is to be a trusted, reliable asset for my clients. If that's not worth more than $5 to a serious business owner - they're not serious, and they are not "my" client.
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      • Profile picture of the author sam12six
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post


        I never had to measure my keyword density or "percent unique" again, and when I raised my prices to $50 an article, all the people who wanted dozens of articles on the same topic went away too. (If I had to write one more damn article on IR-35 in the UK, I was going to scream.)
        This part was the biggest improvement for me when I changed my rates from $6/500 words to $25/500 words.

        The clients at the low price point were mostly concerned with the mechanics of the content. The less anal would just focus on keyword density (which is bad enough if you've ever tried to get a 4 word, grammatically incorrect keyword phrase into a piece 15 times without it sounding "stuffed"). The worst would literally dictate how long each paragraph should be, how many separate headers there should be, and what keywords should be included in each header. Their instructions were sometimes several times longer than the article.

        That all went away when I raised my prices. I have a client who orders 5,000-10,000 words of content each month. His orders hit my email like this:

        "Hey sam, I need 5 articles on the following keywords: <KEYWORDS>. You decide how long they should be and what they should say. Thanks"

        Every time I get one of these emails, I think back to the instructions that were so long I'd have to print them out and cross them off like a checklist (all for $6) and thank myself for raising my prices.
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        • Profile picture of the author CoolAndAwesome
          Alright guys, I am new to the IM game, so you probably know something that I don't, but...

          Reading about all these rehashed articles, keyword stuffing etc.really makes me wonder - this works for you? Is it working well?

          As a visitor - I'm personally already reluctant to those useless and faceless websites with generic advice. They make internet search hard, so I rely more and more on bookmarked quality sites.

          As a website owner - I'd be ashamed to put my name on anything that's not quality.

          As for word count, I write my own articles, and writing something of substance and value, the 500 mark is easily passed whenever, though I found word counting silly anyway.
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    • Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

      If you want to work for nothing, I'm all for it. How much to wash my car?
      I'm going to wash mine and my husband's tomorrow. If you can get your car here by then, I'll wash yours too.

      Why not?

      fLufF
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  • Profile picture of the author RAMarketing
    While I agree with the spirit of your message, certain currency exchanges make $5 articles worth about $75 in the right countries :-p
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  • Profile picture of the author WikiWarrior
    Positively dripping with sarcasm Danielle But I am most disturbed to read this...

    Originally Posted by DanielleLynnCopy View Post

    Most writers can type 60 words per minute, so after 9 minutes, you should already have a 560 word article!
    ...I can only manage 47 wpm...but I AM getting better using Typeracer
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Nice one
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    nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Hi Danielle,

    You absolutely SHOULD pay more than $5 per article, and to suggest differntly is not good for a lot of writers who are already struggling to earn what they are worth!

    It takes a lot of nerve to come in here and start telling business owners that they should pay dirt cheap prices for crappy articles.

    See, that's the kind of response you will get from people who don't read your entire post. However, I DID read all of it and loved it.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I buy high quality $5 articles all the time. They are well researched and they are not gibberish by any stretch of the imagination, they are not unreadable or plagiarized.

    It's quite alright to sell your writing services for more money if you want to, but that doesn't alter the fact that high quality $5 article exists.
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    • Profile picture of the author DanielleLynnCopy
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I buy high quality $5 articles all the time. They are well researched and they are not gibberish by any stretch of the imagination, they are not unreadable or plagiarized.

      It's quite alright to sell your writing services for more money if you want to, but that doesn't alter the fact that high quality $5 article exists.
      Hi Suzanne,

      I agree that there are some gems out there - and you're fortunate enough to have found one!

      Heck ...I'll bet there's SOMEONE out there who could write me half of a good novel for $5... but this post isn't about them.

      Regardless, your input is always welcome and appreciated.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ernie Mitchell
      Forget about the price you're paying for articles --- I wanna know how much you pay for those cigars :confused:


      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I buy high quality $5 articles all the time. They are well researched and they are not gibberish by any stretch of the imagination, they are not unreadable or plagiarized.

      It's quite alright to sell your writing services for more money if you want to, but that doesn't alter the fact that high quality $5 article exists.
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      • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
        Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

        Forget about the price you're paying for articles --- I wanna know how much you pay for those cigars :confused:
        I'm guessing... $5?
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  • Profile picture of the author bmarketer
    I agree with the statements in your post. They are true because you get what you pay for.

    Writers should value their time and get paid what their skills are worth. I am actually just starting to offer my writing services to build up my portfolio, so I am willing to do top notch 400-500 word articles for $5 so I can gain some clients and testimonials from my work
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by DanielleLynnCopy View Post

    Be honest -- did the thread title make you grind your teeth a little?
    Something like 99 times out of 100 it would, but I must be relatively alert today: I saw "DanielleLynnCopy" right under the title, knew roughly what to expect, and "came in smiling".
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  • Profile picture of the author Duckyshucky
    Haha, good one. I really agree with the (real) premise of your post. Good content can be pricey, but it is also really, really worth it most of the time. There'll be cheap hidden gems here and there, but you're better off paying for quality.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    I only pay 25 pesos for my articles!

    RoD
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    • Profile picture of the author DanielleLynnCopy
      Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

      Oh, I'd do more $5 articles for a project I believe in. There's a guy who runs a trout fishing site who is trying to get his site to rank -- and he was going about it entirely wrong by keyword-stuffing. I wrote some articles for him because I liked him and his business model. It's always about making connections.

      But for people who flout the counterfeiting laws? Feh. I don't want to know them.

      I think people are entitled to ask whatever price they wish for their services. I hope they get it.

      fLufF
      --
      I think that's part of the fun of doing business: setting your own prices.

      And If you're happy where you are, don't change a thing, and more power to you!


      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      I only pay 25 pesos for my articles!

      RoD
      So you're the one who lured him away with a 5 peso raise...
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  • Profile picture of the author Brendon Zahrndt
    I just paid less than $5 per article for 20 articles and these articles were immaculate.

    My opinion on what is quality and what isn't is subjective, but my articles were thought provoking, grammatically correct on all fronts (I sent them all to an editor to double check) and all over 500 words.

    If you can't find quality articles for $5 or less you need to expand your circle a little bit.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brendon Zahrndt
      Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

      Yeah. I expect you'll be contacted by the Pulitzer committee any day now.
      This is a completely brainless response.

      You owed your self that though.
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      • Profile picture of the author Brendon Zahrndt
        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

        Simply replying in kind. I'm sure you can win the Pulitzer with a site consisting of five dollar articles. After all, they're immaculate.
        If you define that as replying in kind, there's no way I can argue with you.

        Catch my drift?
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      • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

        Simply replying in kind. I'm sure you can win the Pulitzer with a site consisting of five dollar articles. After all, they're immaculate.


        Who is trying to win a Pulitzer....well, other than you, apparently?
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    • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
      Originally Posted by dhigler View Post

      I just paid less than $5 per article for 20 articles and these articles were immaculate.

      My opinion on what is quality and what isn't is subjective, but my articles were thought provoking, grammatically correct on all fronts (I sent them all to an editor to double check) and all over 500 words.

      If you can't find quality articles for $5 or less you need to expand your circle a little bit.
      Or... you could have spent a little more, and NOT had to send them to an editor to double check. Unless your editor works for free, you would have saved yourself time and money.
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      • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
        Banned
        Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post

        Or... you could have spent a little more, and NOT had to send them to an editor to double check. Unless your editor works for free, you would have saved yourself time and money.
        Why wouldn't he need an editor? Are you saying he should pay big bucks for articles, and just assume they are right? Yeah, not quite. James Patterson's work gets sent to an editor, and he has a $150 million dollar contract.
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        • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
          Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

          Why wouldn't he need an editor? Are you saying he should pay big bucks for articles, and just assume they are right? Yeah, not quite. James Patterson's work gets sent to an editor, and he has a $150 million dollar contract.
          I'm not asking anyone to assume anything. But I'm also guessing that he's learned the hard way not to check his $5 writers' work before he publishes it.

          (With James Patterson, you're talking about a completely different kind of writing. Apples to oranges. So I'm not sure what your point is.

          By the sort of logic you're implying, Patterson's publishers should either be farming out his books to $5 writers, or paying Patterson $5 to write them - because it's standard publishing procedure to have several editors go over an author's work for proofing and editing.

          If you can get James Patterson to throw off a few $5 articles for you, more power to you.

          Also (in case you hadn't noticed) Patterson has been working with various co-writers for almost a decade. I don't think they're writing for him for $5 either.)

          Look, I'll repeat this: If you find a writer you're happy with, who is happy to work for the rates you want, or can afford, to pay - great. It's a big pond.

          But please don't tell us that a writer worth their ink - and who knows their worth - is producing the same level of content as the majority of $5 writers.

          They are not.

          Sure, there are always exceptions. And, somewhere out there, there is probably a future James Patterson or Dr. Mani frantically churning out filler fluff for $5.

          Maybe you'll be lucky enough to stumble upon them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Courtney Keene
      Originally Posted by dhigler View Post

      I just paid less than $5 per article for 20 articles and these articles were immaculate.

      My opinion on what is quality and what isn't is subjective, but my articles were thought provoking, grammatically correct on all fronts (I sent them all to an editor to double check) and all over 500 words.

      If you can't find quality articles for $5 or less you need to expand your circle a little bit.
      If you truly did get immaculate articles that were thought-provoking and grammatically correct then you got someone who:

      a.) Lives in a country where the cost of living is very low but has a masterful grasp of the English language; enough to bend words so that they are indeed thought-provoking

      or more likely...

      b.) Is really down on their luck or does not know their worth, possibly because everyone tells them it's "silly" to charge more than $5 for something "anyone can do."

      I've been in situation b myself, but I knew I was practically giving my work away. And yes, I am grateful for what clients I did get because they helped me pay my bills and afford food. But please make no mistake that this is the writer underselling their value, if they're as good as you say.

      It just worries me when you say "the right circles."

      But if your writers are happy and you're happy, then really that's the end of this story. It's none of my business. Just be aware that you're most likely getting someone who feels they have to work for that rate. If you truly appreciate their work, toss in a bonus once in a while. You're getting a steal.
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      • Originally Posted by Courtney Keene View Post

        If you truly did get immaculate articles that were thought-provoking and grammatically correct then you got someone who:

        a.) Lives in a country where the cost of living is very low but has a masterful grasp of the English language; enough to bend words so that they are indeed thought-provoking

        or more likely...

        b.) Is really down on their luck or does not know their worth, possibly because everyone tells them it's "silly" to charge more than $5 for something "anyone can do."
        or

        c.) Doesn't need the money and does it for her own reasons.

        The thing that many Warriors seem to forget is that Fiverr is a marketplace, true, but it is a social marketplace. Some people do gigs for the fun of it. I hired a big-agency graphic artist to design a logo for me. He was on Fiverr only one week during Christmas vacation, doing it for giggles, not the money.

        Ken, I'm usually done with garage sales by 1 pm on Saturdays. Feel free to bring your car by then. Email if you need directions.

        fLufF
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        • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
          Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

          or

          c.) Doesn't need the money and does it for her own reasons.



          fLufF
          --
          There are those of us less fortunate. Some of us have to make a living. So why the diss?

          For example, I cook for pleasure. And I cook for my friends for free. I've even catered parties for friends of friends for little more than the cost of ingredients - because I enjoy it.

          But I don't cut down professional caterers who cook for a living, and they charge much, much more than I ever have.
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          • Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post

            There are those of us less fortunate. Some of us have to make a living. So why the diss?
            Who's dissing you?

            Not me.

            I've already supported the rights of peeps everywhere to ask whatever amount they want for their work. And, as I said, "I hope they get it."

            fLufF
            --
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            • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
              Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

              Who's dissing you?

              Not me.

              I've already supported the rights of peeps everywhere to ask whatever amount they want for their work. And, as I said, "I hope they get it."

              fLufF
              --
              My apologies. It seemed that this statement:

              Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

              ...
              But hey, if you can manipulate buyer perception and prop up your chosen price scale, more power to ya.

              fLufF
              --
              was directed, in general, at writers who charge more than $5.
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              • Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post

                My apologies. It seemed that this statement:



                was directed, in general, at writers who charge more than $5.
                Actually not. It's a marketing issue, pure and simple.

                If you produce a superior product, you have to skew buyer perception in your favor. There's no use turning out wonderful writing no one ever reads because they don't know about it.

                In the freelance market, of course, you can sell your stuff by pointing to articles you've had published in _Sunset_ or in _Smithsonian_, etc. and that acts as your credential. But what are you going to say about an article you wrote for (say) my blog? That it generated this much traffic, was linked to by these sites, received 48 comments? Maybe you can use that to justify your price. I don't know. Because otherwise it turns into a numbers game. 300 words for whatever price. We all know that's not a good way to judge writing. I hate having to buy articles by the word count. Or read articles that were written to fill one.

                fLufF
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                Love microjobs? Work when you want and get paid in cash the same day!
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                • Profile picture of the author AngelTraveler
                  I only type around 56 wpm so it seems I will have to speed up

                  I love all the arguments for and against and I am sure its all a matter of what you are using the articles for, if you want to spend some extra time revising them or adding to them and what your budget is.

                  I tend to agree with Fluffy on her posts and think the bottom line for me is the amount and quality of the traffic those articles are sending to my blog/website. If they aren't sending me traffic then it doesn't matter whether I paid $5 or $15 I lose out.

                  It's good to see all the healthy debate.
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

          The thing that many Warriors seem to forget is that Fiverr is a marketplace, true, but it is a social marketplace. Some people do gigs for the fun of it.
          The thing that many other Warriors seem to forget is that we are doing business. I am not going to build a business on betting that I can find someone who doesn't suck on Fiverr whenever I need articles, and I'm not going to recommend YOU build a business on it either.

          Good God, did we learn nothing from the open source movement? Yeah, when your movement is small and everyone in it is a butt-kicking rockstar of awesomeness, you can do amazing things. But when you throw it open to every yahoo that walks in the door, the whole movement gets dragged down into the toilet because everything these people make is crap.

          Go over to SourceForge and look at how many of the AWESOME open source projects in the last ten years were just flat-out abandoned without ever reaching even basic functionality. Everybody likes to point at "look how many awesome things we're building!" and they just conveniently ignore the five-nines failure rate of even simple projects.

          Can you find $5 writers that don't suck? Sure. And you can win the lottery, too. But "win lottery" should not be a milestone on your business plan, and no part of your budget planning should rely on winning the lottery to succeed.
          Signature
          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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          • Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            Good God, did we learn nothing from the open source movement?
            You are invited to stop by and check for open source software on my array of Macs. Pretty sure there isn't any. :-)

            Can't speak for my husband, though; he still has romantic delusions about BSD Unix variants.

            fLufF
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            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
              Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

              You are invited to stop by and check for open source software on my array of Macs.
              You seem to have missed the point.

              Relying on the quantum probability cloud notion that "someone is there to do this now, therefore someone will be there to do this later" is a great way to find yourself looking around when you need someone and finding that nobody is there. Not because something bad happened, but because you just happened to make the wrong bet at the wrong time.

              The open source community used to be a small, self-selected group of amazing developers. If you couldn't code, you weren't getting on the internet in the first place, and chances are you were in the CS curriculum at a local college.

              Then everything changed, and they didn't change in response, and the whole community went *PTHBTT* as they kept insisting "BUT GIVEN MANY EYEBALLS ALL BUGS ARE SHALLOW!" and shoving their code in front of Bucky the wonder goon as if he was ever going to figure out what was causing the race condition in the worker thread.

              The WSO forum is crammed full of reports telling you to get on Fiverr and offer stupid crappy service because who cares, it's only $5. And once those people sufficiently outnumber the legitimate providers you're talking about, not getting Bucky the wonder goon and his animal pals when you buy a Fiverr gig is going to be like winning the lottery.

              Oh, and the Mac operating system is built on a BSD core, so all of your Macs have open source software on them. And give your husband a high-five from another old BSD geek.
              Signature
              "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author Courtney Keene
          c.) Doesn't need the money and does it for her own reasons.

          The thing that many Warriors seem to forget is that Fiverr is a marketplace, true, but it is a social marketplace. Some people do gigs for the fun of it. I hired a big-agency graphic artist to design a logo for me. He was on Fiverr only one week during Christmas vacation, doing it for giggles, not the money.
          If I want to write for fun I usually do it on my own time, but I'm not unreasonable. I'm willing to accept that those people exist. But what are the chances that's who we're talking about here? Especially the folks saying they've received repeat work for this rate.

          And in some ways isn't this also ignorance or lack of education? I enjoy my niche. I like my work. But I also know what it's worth. Why should I accept less than minimum wage because I'm actually having fun with my job?

          I do think you make a valid point. I'm not trying to devalue that. I can see how someone might accept that rate every once in a while just to dip their toe in the water. And maybe some of those folks will be talented, and the client will get full value out of it. That's great! Everybody wins.

          What really irks me is disrespect. Blatant disrespect. And ru1N if you're being facetious then I apologize, but if not...

          Look, you're getting a service here. You're outsourcing because you don't have the time or the talent to write yourself. This person you're contracting is doing you a favor that will pay off in huge ways if you utilize it correctly.

          A quality article that you can use in your business model is not words strewn together that takes 5 minutes to type. If that was the case, why aren't you doing it yourself?

          A quality article requires communication between client and writer. They need to know what you want and what you're going to do with it if they're ever going to deliver something of real value. It requires research, even if the writer knows the topic backwards and forwards. It requires time spent writing, something that doesn't just magically happen when fingers approach a keyboard. It requires self-proofing and tweaking by the writer before they send it to you.

          You're essentially asking them to cut out all the rest except the time spent writing. And let's be extremely generous here and say everything goes well and the writing part only takes 15-20 minutes.

          Sure, looking at it that way they can make $20 an hour.

          Except not really, since they spent 40-45 minutes researching, communicating with you, and self-editing to ensure a quality article. And again that's being generous. So in reality you've just paid someone $5 for an hour's worth of work.

          Social experiment: Next time you go to your regular physician, tell him/her to conduct blood work, do some X-rays, start you on some sample meds, and schedule a followup visit in addition to the consultation and exam.

          Then tell them you're just going to pay for the exam.

          Let us know how that works out for you!
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        • Profile picture of the author Don Luis
          Banned
          There's a lot of $5 per article writers here in the Philippines. With journalism or English degrees to boot. Sure, $5 an article is akin to slave labor in the United States and other developed countries, but in Third World countries with vast English-speaking populations and an educated workforce, it's already a princely sum of money.

          A Filipino (or Filipina) writer can write 10 500-word articles per day (difficult but achievable). That translates to $50 per day or 2,000 pesos per day. Now, the average monthly wage in the Philippines is about 10,000-15,000 pesos per month. Our Filipino writer churning out $5 articles can expect to earn 50,000-60,000 pesos per month. That's 5 times the average wage! Even if he/she produces just 5 articles per day, he/she can still earn 25,000-30,000 pesos per month. Not bad!

          I have written articles for $2-5 in the past and I take the time to research and make the articles fit for human consumption. I don't mess with spinners (I don't even have one) nor plagiarize other articles just to meet the required word count. I even write my articles by hand (yes, pen and paper!). Those were desperate times and a dollar was worth a lot of money for me.

          Then again, writing is kinda boring and I can't write articles every freakin' day without going nuts. So I have doubled my rates and now charge $10 per article. Will I write $5 per article again? Maybe, as long as the topic is interesting (such as Internet marketing). But if you want me to write about an obscure or overly technical subject such as debt consolidation or gluten free diets, make sure to compensate me for the time and effort I will spend on research alone.
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
            Originally Posted by Don Luis View Post

            Then again, writing is kinda boring and I can't write articles every freakin' day without going nuts. So I have doubled my rates and now charge $10 per article. Will I write $5 per article again? Maybe, as long as the topic is interesting (such as Internet marketing). But if you want me to write about an obscure or overly technical subject such as debt consolidation or gluten free diets, make sure to compensate me for the time and effort I will spend on research alone.
            Hi Don,

            You raise a few interesting points in your last paragraph.

            I earn a fair portion of my income through writing for other people, and I agree that it can get boring sometimes. Interesting topics do a lot to relieve the tedium; no doubt about it.

            I find it somewhat amusing that you mention those two topics as "obscure and overly technical", as they wouldn't be too difficult for me. However, I'm sure there are topics you find interesting that I wouldn't.

            So, there is another way of charging for your writing, and that is giving price quotes based on a per job basis. This allows you to be more selective, and get a fair rate for whatever topic you re writing about.

            All the best,
            Michael
            Signature

            "Ich bin en fuego!"
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        • Profile picture of the author drmani
          Originally Posted by RAMarketing View Post

          While I agree with the spirit of your message, certain currency exchanges make $5 articles worth about $75 in the right countries :-p
          Originally Posted by DanielleLynnCopy View Post

          Fantastic writing generally takes more time than $5 is worth to a writer. As with anything else in life (except death and taxes) there's always exceptions. But I won't usually find incredible, ground-breaking writing at $5.
          In India, market rates for heart surgeons in private practice average
          Rs.15,000 per operation. It takes approximately 4 hours - plus a
          cumulative hour or so for follow up care... giving a pay rate of
          Rs.3,000 per hour.

          Middle level consultant heart surgeons (on flat pay in a hospital
          setting) get paid around Rs.150,000 a month for 60+ hour work weeks
          taking their per hour rate down to Rs.625.

          For perspective, $5 is around Rs.235

          A well researched and written article can take experienced writers
          around 30 minutes... for an hourly rate of Rs.470

          Hmm... 625 - 470 = 155

          But don't pay any attention to me...

          I'm just tryiing to convince myself to give up heart surgery - and
          write $5 articles full-time

          Or maybe rope in a few of my assistants to form an article writing
          'membership site'

          All success
          Dr.Mani

          P.S. - For the record, I'm paid $100 or more for a 700-word article
          - and do NOT solicit clients.
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        • Profile picture of the author virtualgeek
          Excellent post, made my day and gave me a smile. To be honest I had a friend who once worked for $1 per article which is 400 words and they were all "hand made". Took a while to convince him that it wasn't worth it. I mean comon just as you said some people just copy and spin content and sell them and they can sell it for $5 and he does his from scratch(well maybe a few research) and only gets $1.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    You have to make money that is worth your time. ksmusselman even if the supplies are free how much time do you have into it. Selling something very cheap is fine to move product that isn't selling. Just as selling your service cheap is fine to gain business.

    But for a good article how much time does it take you to do it? The question is are you making enough money to justify doing it? And if you live in the US I just can not imagine that $5 articles are the best use of time. Thus the original post which was pointing out that many cheap articles are just spun or copied from content already out there. And this works fine for many people. But if you are offering a quality service you have to charge for it. And if you are making less from your home based business than you would working at McDs why do it?

    Even if you want freedom there are other ways to make money from home that would pay you better.

    If there is one thing about internet marketing as a whole it is how little people allow themselves to make.
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    • Profile picture of the author rhmn
      I would agree with your statements. The opportunity cost of spending time writing articles for someone who is better at marketing is pretty stiff. It's the reason why so many chose the article spinners. Even if they have the skills to right good copy, the time it takes away from making real money can be problematic.
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  • Profile picture of the author DanielleLynnCopy
    Originally Posted by ksmusselman View Post

    Excellent. What it all really boils down to is what an individual - not an industry - feels their time & effort is worth.

    Yes, the OP made some good points but I think those points are more suited to the often overused PLR and sometimes "spun" articles out there, but certainly can't be directed at $5 articles by any shade of the imagination.
    There are some decent $5 articles, but they’re usually not worth noting. Fantastic writing generally takes more time than $5 is worth to a writer. As with anything else in life (except death and taxes) there’s always exceptions. But I won’t usually find incredible, ground-breaking writing at $5.


    Originally Posted by ksmusselman View Post

    For instance, I paid someone a nice chunk o' change thinking the more I was paying, the better, right? Wrong. They had solid testimonials, good referrals and a high ticket price. I had the money at the time so I paid it. Hah. Should have gone with the bargain basement price to begin with because I had a better result.

    But why is it that way too many people think the price tag is what makes or doesn't make the content good? Price point has nothing to do with quality but has everything to do with your bottom line when you're in business, no matter what side of the coin you're on - buying or selling.

    And in today's economy, unfortunately, sometimes you can sell more of a lower priced quality item and make MORE money than by selling less of a higher priced item!
    Price point does not guarantee quality. There are people who give away quality items for free and others who sell crap for thousands. But as a rule of thumb, someone who is really good at a service usually gets over-saturated with requests.

    In order to meet the demand, they often pre-qualify themselves and raise their prices to chase away tire-kickers.

    Originally Posted by ksmusselman View Post


    Last weekend my husband put his custom lighted jars and bottles on a deep discount sale for just $3 a piece. They normally sell for $15-$18 online.

    We sold 24 of them. Now, we were a heck of a lot happier walking away with $72 than the weekend before when we sold ONE for $15. Do the math. And since most all of our supplies are virtually free, we were still ahead of the game!

    I raised my transcription rates in Jan. because people kept saying my work was so good I should raise my rates. I lost two clients who went elsewhere for less. So who's making the money now? And these people are perfectly satisfied with the lesser price. So while "Jane" is making money with MY former clients, I'm trying to find new clients in an economy where LESS is more!
    When you do price shifts, it’s not unusual for a customer to go elsewhere. However, instead of struggling to find a lot of low-paying clients, why not package and market yourself to a higher-paying clientele?

    I assure you, even in this market, there are businesses who have the money to spend on services. One of my offline consulting clients runs a company – and they outsource their technical writing to a tech writer for $500 per article… and they think nothing of it.

    If I were you, I would have found a different way to market and sell the jars and bottles.

    You’ll always sell a lot when you drop your price – ask HP.
    But it’s not usually a winning strategy – ask HP. (unless they get off their butts and do something about the sudden interest they've generated)
    Originally Posted by ksmusselman View Post


    So now I'm on fiverr and in one week I had $200 sitting in my account versus ZERO in my account after raising my rates. Does that mean the quality of my work is less? Absolutely not.

    One of the first things you learn in business - any business - is this - you charge What The Market Will Bear. If nobody's buying at and everyone else is SELLING and making money at less than , then maybe it's time to rethink your price point. That's just good, logical business.

    Or, you offer something worth what you’re asking that no one else if offering – and the market will surely buy from you in droves.

    None the less, I appreciated your post – it’s always refreshing to learn other perspectives.
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  • Profile picture of the author go4wealth
    I only hired someone once ... years ago (about 7).... was a disaster ... embarrassed to say how much I spent.... it was with someone I found in warrior forum... however would like to know who some of these good writers are for $5.... better yet the ones less than $5... cannot be worse than the one I paid about 50 times more ... need to start outsourcing
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan Rieth
    We have 5 outsourced writers and they all get less then $5 per article and they have been working for us for over a year now. All the articles are good and pass copyscape. You can definitely get good articles wrote for less then $5, you just have to know where to look.
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    • Profile picture of the author jackwebson
      Originally Posted by Ryan Rieth View Post

      We have 5 outsourced writers and they all get less then $5 per article and they have been working for us for over a year now. All the articles are good and pass copyscape. You can definitely get good articles wrote for less then $5, you just have to know where to look.
      If you don't mind Ryan I'd like to know where'd you find these writers. Kindly PM me. Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Tyler
    You get what you pay for.. but truth to be speaking, i've acutally got several good $5 dollars (and even cheaper) article writers. Of course there will be some quality checking afterwords, but the research is fantastic. After all, it's just content on product review sites and as long they get approved by ezine they are good to use

    Cheers,
    Mike Tyler.
    Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
      Originally Posted by Mike Tyler View Post

      You get what you pay for.. but truth to be speaking, i've acutally got several good $5 dollars (and even cheaper) article writers. Of course there will be some quality checking afterwords, but the research is fantastic. After all, it's just content on product review sites and as long they get approved by ezine they are good to use

      Cheers,
      Mike Tyler.

      So - what's YOUR time worth, Mike?

      One way or the other, cheap writing is gonna cost ya. Just sayin'.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post

        So - what's YOUR time worth, Mike?

        One way or the other, cheap writing is gonna cost ya. Just sayin'.
        ... and expensive writing is going to cost you more. I would proofread any article that I pay for, including an expensive article, but I have never had to change so much as a word when I used this service. The writers are excellent.

        http://www.warriorforum.com/warriors...instantly.html
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

          I sure hope the editors at Salon don't see that. They'll fire all their writers to get in on the bonanza. AP, Reuters, Random House will follow.

          It looks bleak, folks.
          Well, they did all the writing for a site I created that got accepted into Google News, but most people here don't have "Salon Quality" sites and only need articles for niche sites for Adsense, or ranking or affililiate product reviews. So if you'd like to pay Salon writer wages for that ... feel free.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

            If you want to buy crap (articles for niche sites for Adsense, or ranking or affililiate product reviews) knock yourself out. Let's not confuse it with writing.
            whatever Ken Caustic. You don't know what articles I received ... you're just guessing because you're invested in your notion that anything that falls below your price range must be crap.

            I'm not confused about the product I get. It's writing and it's damned good writing. I don't buy crap articles. I buy well written articles.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

              Nope, I know for a fact that it is an impossibility for anyone to make a living writing for a penny a word. So you're hiring people writing for pin money, people from developing nations, the naive, or the desperate.

              If they had any sense, they'd charge what they're worth.

              Besides, I've seen some of the "quality" writing people buy here.

              Apparently, quality writing is anything that has been through a spellchecker and will pass copyscape.
              Well, you know it for a fact, so that makes it so. :rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          ... and expensive writing is going to cost you more. I would proofread any article that I pay for, including an expensive article, but I have never had to change so much as a word when I used this service. The writers are excellent.

          [your link here]
          You found a service that works for you. And you found people who can work for less than (U.S.) minimum wage. That's a win/win proposition for both of you, and that's great.

          But what if you don't want to work with an offshore content factory where people are churning out articles that don't do much else than pass Copyscape?

          I'm assuming you think 1 cent per word is too much to pay for good writing. Obviously, we disagree. Believe me, I've fixed my share of .097-cent writing. It is far more common to have to do "a little additional work" on the submitted copy, than not.

          For example:

          "...Listen. Some advices may hurt you but seriously listen to these advises. The reason why people gives you advises is because they see the things that you are blinded to see because you can’t let go of that lost cause. Don’t wait for the time that people who loves you will just give up and consider you as the lost cause."

          is NOT what *I* would consider "excellent" writing.

          But I'm a writer; so I'm picky that way.

          And are you suggesting that U.S. writers should work for less than minimum wage? If so, why?
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post

            You found a service that works for you. And you found people who can work for less than (U.S.) minimum wage. That's a win/win proposition for both of you, and that's great.

            But what if you don't want to work with an offshore content factory where people are churning out articles that don't do much else than pass Copyscape?

            I'm assuming you think 1 cent per word is too much to pay for good writing. Obviously, we disagree. Believe me, I've fixed my share of .097-cent writing. It is far more common to have to do "a little additional work" on the submitted copy, than not.

            For example:

            "...Listen. Some advices may hurt you but seriously listen to these advises. The reason why people gives you advises is because they see the things that you are blinded to see because you can’t let go of that lost cause. Don’t wait for the time that people who loves you will just give up and consider you as the lost cause."

            is NOT what *I* would consider "excellent" writing.

            But I'm a writer; so I'm picky that way.

            And are you suggesting that U.S. writers should work for less than minimum wage? If so, why?
            Your assumption about what I think is too much or too little to pay for writing is incorrect. I'm just relaying my experience with writers on this forum. A few of them have been crap, but not the majority of writers I have hired.

            Why they charge what they charge is known only to them. They set the price and if the work is what I am looking for, I don't mind saving money on writing. I buy a lot of articles.

            The example you gave is far below the SEO Generals quality of writing. As I said, it is excellent. At least Google News thought so. So do most of their customers. They do not write broken English. Their English is excellent.

            I'm not suggesting anything. I think people should charge what they feel they're worth, but this thread was pretty much saying that $5 articles are crap. I haven't found that to be the case.

            $5 to you and to me is not much, but $5 in another country is a different matter.
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            • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
              @ sbucciarel - The example I gave is from their portfolio sample. It took me about 15 seconds to spot it. I looked at other samples of their writing, too. Our standards for "excellent writing" are very different.

              Google News isn't human eyes. If you're writing for a search engine algorithm, a lot of mediocre, even terrible, writing will pass. (See: Google Panda)

              And I don't live in another country. I live in the U.S. I don't begrudge anyone working for what they can live on comfortably in their country. I shouldn't be begrudged for working for what will allow me to live comfortably in mine.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post

                @ sbucciarel - The example I gave is from their portfolio sample. It took me about 15 seconds to spot it. I looked at other samples of their writing, too. Our standards for "excellent writing" are very different.

                Google News isn't human eyes. If you're writing for a search engine algorithm, a lot of mediocre, even terrible, writing will pass. (See: Google Panda)

                And I don't live in another country. I live in the U.S. I don't begrudge anyone working for what they can live on comfortably in their country. I shouldn't be begrudged for working for what will allow me to live comfortably in mine.
                I have never received an article from them that read anything like that. If I did, I would submit it for a rewrite.

                What do you mean Google News isn't for human eyes? I read Google News every day. It's written like any other news ... it's just news. Now that Google News cleaned up their news by eliminating thousands of spam sites, I never run across poorly written news stories.

                I don't live in another country either and I gave up freelancing graphic design work a long time ago because I can't compete with offshore pricing. I can't live on those wages and no one in the US can "live off" those wages.

                I've given up doing mobile sites on the WF because Romanians are doing it for $57/site and said they can do 20 sites per day. Go figure. It's a losing battle trying to compete with that.

                But I'm not going to diss offshore providers for working for the rates that they do. Everybody does what they want or need to do, but if I received articles like your example, I would not be their customer. Where ever they come from, I expect the work to be as advertised. I don't need a Best Selling novel. I need articles for niche sites that are interesting and informative and written in English ... and not broken English.
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                • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  I have never received an article from them that read anything like that. If I did, I would submit it for a rewrite.
                  It's from their portfolio sample. And it is what is it.

                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  What do you mean Google News isn't for human eyes?
                  I didn't say that. I said, "Google News ISN'T human eyes." And, it isn't. It's an algorithm that selects news items to be read by human eyes. The selection of those news items isn't done by humans.

                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel

                  I read Google News every day. It's written like any other news ... it's just news.
                  Google News isn't "written"; it's aggregated. From Google: "Google News is a computer-generated news site that aggregates headlines from news sources worldwide, groups similar stories together and displays them according to each reader's personalized interests.

                  Our articles are selected and ranked by computers that evaluate, among other things, how often and on what sites a story appears online. We also rank based on certain characteristics of news content such as freshness, location, relevance and diversity. ...We'll continue to improve Google News by adding sources, fine-tuning our technology and providing Google News to readers in even more regions."

                  I don't live in another country either and I gave up freelancing graphic design work a long time ago because I can't compete with offshore pricing. I can't live on those wages and no one in the US can "live off" those wages.

                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel

                  I've given up doing mobile sites on the WF because Romanians are doing it for $57/site and said they can do 20 sites per day. Go figure. It's a losing battle trying to compete with that.

                  But I'm not going to diss offshore providers for working for the rates that they do.
                  Nobody is dissing offshore providers. The point being made here is that it is extremely unlikely that you are going to get excellent, quality writing at those rates.

                  But, as I said before, "excellent writing" is subjective.

                  I also believe you're missing the elephant for the sofa: If you care about your content, it's not a race to the bottom.

                  I also don't know what kind of mobile sites you did, but I know there are many companies in the U.S. that wouldn't dream of entrusting their brand name and business revenue to a offshore sweatshop.

                  I agree that competing on price is a fool's game. And the point being made by several people here (both buyers AND providers) is that "price" should not be the deciding factor when choosing a writer to represent your business.

                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel

                  if I received articles like your example, I would not be their customer...I need articles for niche sites that are interesting and informative and written in English ... and not broken English.
                  But you have received work similar to that in my example. I don't know who the provider was, but the work is in your portfolio.

                  And, in fairness, the writing isn't really "broken-English", but it certainly isn't well-written or grammatically correct.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post

                    It's from their portfolio sample. And it is what is it.

                    I didn't say that. I said, "Google News ISN'T human eyes." And, it isn't. It's an algorithm that selects news items to be read by human eyes. The selection of those news items isn't done by humans.

                    Google News isn't "written"; it's aggregated. From Google: "Google News is a computer-generated news site that aggregates headlines from news sources worldwide, groups similar stories together and displays them according to each reader's personalized interests.
                    Google news may not be selected by humans, but it most certainly is written by humans. I have a Google News site and humans write the articles, like all other Google News sites.

                    Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post

                    I also don't know what kind of mobile sites you did, but I know there are many companies in the U.S. that wouldn't dream of entrusting their brand name and business revenue to a offshore sweatshop.
                    Well, they are a lot busier than I was with mobile site design, so it appears that plenty of US businesses entrust their brand name and business revenue to offshore providers.

                    Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post

                    But you have received work similar to that in my example. I don't know who the provider was, but the work is in your portfolio.
                    I don't have a portfolio and I have never received an article like your example. SEO Generals have a guarantee. You don't like the article, it gets rewritten until you do. I've only had to request one rewrite.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Courtney Keene
                      While i did just edit my previous article...When...please...When did i say anything about QUALITY? $5 dollar articles are pure Link and SEO.....nothing to do with quality. Just some relevancy and link building. I grabbed the number 6.67 from OP's post that you can write 1 article in 9 minutes at 60 wpm ....I am using that as a basis.
                      Fair enough. I can live with that, lol.

                      Now I'm curious to paint a house with a paintball gun. I wonder what the writing equivalent would be? I could pull out the old bean bag toss and lob them at the keyboard!
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                    • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                      Google news may not be selected by humans, but it most certainly is written by humans. I have a Google News site and humans write the articles, like all other Google News sites.
                      I stand corrected. You're obviously able to define Google's service better than Google themselves can.

                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel

                      Well, they are a lot busier than I was with mobile site design, so it appears that plenty of US businesses entrust their brand name and business revenue to offshore providers.
                      Since there are a lot of U.S. designers doing a LOT of mobile site designs for a LOT of U.S. companies, it appears that there are clients are willing and able to pay for quality work at home.

                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel

                      I don't have a portfolio and I have never received an article like your example. SEO Generals have a guarantee. You don't like the article, it gets rewritten until you do. I've only had to request one rewrite.
                      You sell niche blogs, do you not? Which come with pre-written articles? That's what I refer to as "your portfolio". It's YOUR product with YOUR name on it.

                      I suggest you get those articles proofread.
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                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post

                        You sell niche blogs, do you not? Which come with pre-written articles? That's what I refer to as "your portfolio". It's YOUR product with YOUR name on it.

                        I suggest you get those articles proofread.
                        Just give me the link ... I'd like to see the article in question.
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                        • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                          Just give me the link ... I'd like to see the article in question.
                          You didn't say, "Please".
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                          • Profile picture of the author Don Luis
                            Banned
                            There's a market for cheap $5 articles. There's a market for expensive $500 salesletters. Different strokes for different folks...

                            I wouldn't pay a hundred bucks for a short article that I will submit to article directories. Neither would I expect to pay a few dollars for a salesletter promoting my own product.

                            Though I agree that most (not all) cheap articles are utter garbage, you can still find a few writers who can write cheap but high quality articles. But these writers are like diamonds in the rough. Once they realize the value of their time and effort, they will soon charge higher rates and become polished diamonds...

                            The good thing is that there is no shortage of writers to replace them once they move on to greener pastures...
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                            • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
                              Funny OP, and too true. Many who are new to IM fail to understand the difference between "best cost" and "best value."
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                              • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
                                Here's a decent $5 article. I believe this writer could get a lot more than $5 for her work but that's what she charges.

                                Is Your Marriage Headed for Divorce?

                                On your wedding day, when you walk down the aisle and look at your new husband with such love in your eyes, it never enters your mind that this marriage might not last forever. In fact, very few couples entertain the thought of a future divorce on their wedding day. That's why it's hard to tell when things start to head downhill. However, following are a few ways to tell if your marriage may be heading for Divorce Court:
                                • You're disconnected from each other. Couples with a marriage in trouble no longer do things together. They seem to live almost separate lives from each other. So if you're not spending time together anymore, and it's almost a relief to be apart, you've already left the marriage.
                                • You never resolve any issues. If one of you constantly brings up an issue between the two of you, asking to talk it over, even making it clear that the marriage cannot survive unless this issue is solved, but one of you refuses to work on it, the marriage is probably over.
                                • One spouse refuses to try. One partner can't do everything alone. So if there's been no progress for a full year, the marriage is in trouble.
                                • There's no mutual respect. One of the most important parts of a good marriage is for partners to respect each other. If that's not existent, or one partner feels neglected, rejected or looked down on, the marriage is hardly worth trying to save.
                                • You don't function as a team. In healthy marriages, both partners work together on everything that's a vital part of their day to day lives. When they both start moving in totally separate directions, or aren't working together on things, the marriage is in serious trouble.
                                • An unfaithful spouse is friends with an ex-lover. One of the hardest things for a marriage to recover from is infidelity. If a marriage manages to move past the affair, then all contact must be severed with the third person. The marriage cannot survive if the unfaithful partner is still friends with the ex-lover.
                                • There's the inability to compromise. In a marriage, partners try to fulfill each other's needs while also meeting their own. There's constant give and take to make this work, including continuous communication. However, if one of you refuses to work on this, your marriage is on shaky ground.
                                • Serial cheaters aren't cut out for marriage. While a marriage can survive one affair, a serial cheater will never stop. Marriages cannot usually survive this type of behavior.
                                • Both of you need to agree on the subject of having kids. When one of you wants kids and the other one doesn't, that's a need that's not going to be fulfilled for the partner that wants kids. This can break a marriage.
                                • Communication is vital. Marriages cannot work when there's no communication. How will you ever know what each other needs or wants when you never talk?
                                These are the signs that your marriage just may not work out after all. Some of them can be worked on, but only if both of you are willing.
                                I don't write $5 articles but there are definitely people out there who do and do it quite well. I've paid a lot more for terrible articles. I've tested a lot of $5 writers and most are not very good at all, though. You definitely have to spend a lot of time and money testing to find the good ones and I think most people forget about that when figuring their costs.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
                                  Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

                                  You honestly think that's good writing?
                                  It's readable and does the job it was designed for, Ken.

                                  We're not all going for that Pulitzer, you know.

                                  Since you are obviously the expert on good writing, why don't you share one of your prize-winning articles with us?
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                                  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
                                    Banned
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                                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                      Banned
                                      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

                                      As I said, at the end of the day, it only matters what you think about your decision to use the article and whether or not it had a positive impact. It's none of Ken's business, certainly not mine or anyone else's what content YOU choose to use or how much YOU pay for it.
                                      Pretty spot on. There's a thriving $5 per article market on the Warrior Forum with both happy buyers and sellers and I'm pretty certain that the sellers and buyers would prefer it if anyone who doesn't like it would just butt out and take care of their own content.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                      Banned
                                      Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

                                      It's called ****ting in the nest, Mike. When the net is filled with ****, the stench affects everyone. Why do you think Google is trying to avoid that kind of drivel? It's boring, mundane, inane and an affront to a reader's intelligence. Most of it's not even meant to be read by humans.

                                      As I mentioned in a previous post, if you have nothing to say, don't say it.

                                      Anyone who wants to write for a living should run away from mini-entrepreneurs who are looking for fillers, SEO writing, and articles for slave wages.
                                      There's already been one person from the Philippines to say that he makes 5 times the average income from writing $5 articles. That's hardly slave wages where he lives.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
                                        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

                                        It's called ****ting in the nest, Mike. When the net is filled with ****, the stench affects everyone. Why do you think Google is trying to avoid that kind of drivel? It's boring, mundane, inane and an affront to a reader's intelligence. Most of it's not even meant to be read by humans. This is nonsense. How would someone else's writing have any effect on you? If anything, if it's as bad as you believe, wouldn't that drive MORE traffic to your Pulitzer-winning wonder articles?

                                        As I mentioned in a previous post, if you have nothing to say, don't say it. Not quite sure if you're referring to BigMike or the article here so I'll leave this one.

                                        Anyone who wants to write for a living should run away from mini-entrepreneurs who are looking for fillers, SEO writing, and articles for slave wages. Agreed. What does this have to do with the conversation, however? What YOU or I choose to do with our business has nothing to do with what SOMEONE ELSE chooses to do with theirs.

                                        It's not a good place to start. It's a horrible place to start. It's mind-numbing. It's a soul killer. There's no money in it. Again, I agree.

                                        If you take no pride in your sites, if you think drivel is plenty good enough to foist off on the public, by all means go for it. If you think the article I posted above is "drivel", could you please explain exactly what you mean by that? I see nothing wrong with an article that shares some warning signs that a marriage might be in trouble.

                                        Somehow, I doubt the target audience is searching for a treatise or reference report on the topic. If they were, then clearly this simple article would not suffice.

                                        Do you honestly not recognize the fact that articles are written for different purposes and different audiences? I find that hard to credit considering your obvious intelligence but hey, I've been wrong before.

                                        You can't sell an encyclopedia to a man who thinks he knows everything. I have no interest in trying. Pot, meet kettle.
                                        As I said earlier, Ken, most of us would be highly interested in seeing one of your articles. I did go to your website, but since your focus there appears to be sales copywriting, I couldn't find any examples of your writing.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                        Banned
                                        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

                                        Typical. Paying slave wages to people form emerging nations is a noble thing.

                                        Sure it is.

                                        If he can write, he's worth much more than that. I hope he finds that out soon.
                                        Yeah, it's far better to perpetuate the "noble" attitude that he is worth much, much more and let him just figure out a way to make a living using the resources in his own country. Good plan. I'm sure his family will be grateful to you for saving him.

                                        ... of course, you've already said that the product of these $5 writers is stench and drivel and mundane, not fit for humans to read. lol.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
                                        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

                                        Typical. Paying slave wages to people form emerging nations is a noble thing.

                                        Sure it is.

                                        If he can write, he's worth much more than that. I hope he finds that out soon.
                                        So paying someone 5 times his normal wage is now a bad thing? You're saying we should pay American-scale wages, no matter where the person lives or what they actually ask for?

                                        That must mean that you send the extra money for everything you buy so that all that "made in China" stuff costs the same as what you find made in America, right? After all, if an American made item cost $35, then it would be completely ignoble to pay only $5 because those poor Chinese factory workers can live on less.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
                                  Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

                                  Here's a decent $5 article. I believe this writer could get a lot more than $5 for her work but that's what she charges.



                                  I don't write $5 articles but there are definitely people out there who do and do it quite well. I've paid a lot more for terrible articles. I've tested a lot of $5 writers and most are not very good at all, though. You definitely have to spend a lot of time and money testing to find the good ones and I think most people forget about that when figuring their costs.

                                  This is a great point, Tina.

                                  On the other hand, I've paid $12.00 for articles and then turned around and paid $5.00 per article on the same topic and gotten better quality. A lot of it is guess work, qualifying your writers, checking reviews and examples, etc. Even if someone has several raving reviews they may not have the writing style that I'm looking for. You just never know.

                                  Another big question that needs to be addressed is "what is the content going to be used for?"

                                  If it's a report or an ebook I'd probably want someone more reputable to do the work anyway rather than take the chance of buying crap.

                                  If it's for product reviews I might pay a bit more for a quality review or just offer more work. That's a big deal for some people too right now.

                                  Example, I can tell the person that I'll either hire them to write 10 articles for $60.00 or 20 for $100.00. Do a good job and I'll give them more work. If the person needs the money they're going to jump on writing the 20 and getting more work.

                                  What it comes down to is a business decision. I look at my budget and know that I can get 2-3 times as much "good enough" content for $5.00 an article from my proven writer as I can "good" content for $10.00 per article or more. Most of the time I end up doing a bit of editing regardless, so for me, paying $5.00 just makes sense.

                                  That being said, there are some great writers out there, Tina being one of them, that are worth way more than $5.00 per article. If I ever need a report, ebook, etc written, she would be someone I'd definitely consider contacting. However, for the projects I'm doing right now paying less just makes good business sense.

                                  My two bits.

                                  Joe
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                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

                            Forget about the price you're paying for articles --- I wanna know how much you pay for those cigars :confused:
                            They're Cuban, of course.

                            Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post

                            You didn't say, "Please".
                            I'm not going to beg you to show where you found that. Do it or not. I don't care. I proof my articles and have never seen that text. Of course, with your $200 limited spots available price tag in your signature, you want people to believe that you have to fork out hundreds of dollars for article writing or writing just about anything. Of course your link just goes to an email link rather than a sample of Award Winning Writing, so you haven't proven your ability as a writer except for a writer of sarcastic posts that attempt to demean writers who are working for less money than you.
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                            • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
                              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                              I'm not going to beg you to show where you found that. Do it or not. I don't care.
                              Saying "Please" when making a request is just good manners. Perhaps you are unacquainted with the concept?

                              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                              I proof my articles and have never seen that text.
                              You're not a writer. It shows.

                              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                              Of course, with your $200 limited spots available price tag in your signature, you want people to believe that you have to fork out hundreds of dollars for article writing or writing just about anything.
                              I'm not asking anyone to believe anything. If I were, that link would go straight to a PayPal payment page.

                              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                              Of course your link just goes to an email link rather than a sample of Award Winning Writing,...
                              Since the text says, "Contact me" it makes sense that the actionable link would go to - a contact address.

                              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                              so you haven't proven your ability as a writer
                              Since that was never my intent, what's your point? I have as much right to express my opinion as you do. For some reason, you seem to have taken great exception to that.

                              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                              except for a writer of sarcastic posts that attempt to demean writers...
                              Pot. Meet kettle.

                              You obviously didn't read my posts. I've already said at least twice that, if a business owner finds a writer who is willing to work for whatever the business owner is willing to pay - AND THEY ARE BOTH HAPPY WITH THE ARRANGEMENT, it's all good.

                              I really don't know what your problem is, or why you feel the need to be so incredibly rude, unpleasant, defensive, and abrasive. You want to hire nothing but $5 writers. I do not want to write for $5, not for you, or anyone else.

                              I am not the kind of writer you want. You are not the kind of client I want.

                              The matter is ended.
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                              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post

                                I really don't know what your problem is, or why you feel the need to be so incredibly rude, unpleasant, defensive, and abrasive. You want to hire nothing but $5 writers. I do not want to write for $5, not for you, or anyone else.

                                I am not the kind of writer you want. You are not the kind of client I want.

                                The matter is ended.
                                That's funny. I find you to be incredibly rude and demeaning. You don't know what or who I hire and I don't recall inquiring about you writing for me. You are entirely correct in your assumption that you are not suited for any of my projects and I am not the type of client for you.

                                I have already indicated who I would choose as a sales copy writer. He's also rude and abrasive, but in a much more charming way. And he isn't a $5 writer. He's quite expensive.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Ernie Mitchell
                                  As far as I am concerned I don't have a problem with how much someone pays a writer for articles. Up until I read this thread I always assumed the cheap third world articles would be just that --- cheap but perhaps I was wrong. I've always written all of my own content so I wouldn't know

                                  What really bothers me (concerns is a better word) are the occasional comments from various posters in threads like this about writing five or six 500 word articles a day. I can't imagine how anyone could produce that much "quality" content in one day.

                                  Among other things, I write an 800 word weekly newspaper business column and it takes me a full day to write a column --- sometimes more. It also requires that I do a lot of research reading in the evenings over and above the one full day. Perhaps I put more into it than I would have to because I feel I am only as good as my last column. In three years I've never missed an issue or been dropped by a publisher.

                                  There is also the possibility that I'm just slow. I killed a lot of brain cells in my younger days. To quote an old George Carlin line, "The sixties were real good to me." I drank 5-gallons of Old Potrero one Saturday night in New Orleans back is 1968 and I haven't been the same since!
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    • Profile picture of the author djemerald
      I like it !
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      "professional writing priced right "
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Kohler
    Hilarious! Well written. The monkey above says it all.
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  • Profile picture of the author ricoramiro
    Very thoughtful points. I write articles at Fiverr and press releases too and all of my stuff is original.

    I'm getting good at talking about the same thing in different ways :-)

    But, writing articles and press releases has helped me improve my writing skills tremendously and hopefully as soon as I get a good following I'll be able to take my clients where ever I want.

    There is one benefit to selling $5 articles that's worth mentioning. I up-sell about 10% of my customer base and make more money off of them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Courtney Keene
    Came into this with my hackles raised, I admit.

    Love the sarcasm. Great post!
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  • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
    Actually if you use Dragon Naturally speaking you could probably pound out a somewhat readable 500 word article in about 5 minutes. That's a hundred words a minute, maybe more if your creative with your usage of the English language!

    Who needs punctuation?!

    And I'm sure the $5 article writers do research. It's called hitting the search button on EzineArticles!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ru1N
    Just FYI....

    1 Article x $5 x 6.67 = $33.35/hr x 40 = $1334/wk x 4 = 5336 x 12 = $64,032/yr

    (6.67 is how many articles can be written in an hour)

    From this point, hire 10 writers for $3/500 article...
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    • Profile picture of the author Courtney Keene
      Originally Posted by Ru1N View Post

      Just FYI....

      1 Article x $5 x 6.67 = $33.35/hr x 40 = $1334/wk x 4 = 5336 x 12 = $64,032/yr

      (6.67 is how many articles can be written in an hour)

      From this point, hire 10 writers for $3/500 article...
      Um... by whom?

      And with what quality?

      If we're talking your average forum post then sure. Why the hell not. Though if you find these superhuman writers who can write 6-7 perfect 500 word articles (that is what we're discussing, right?) in one hour, tie them down and let us run some tests so that we might all share in this wondrous power.

      Seriously, who can do this? And who in their right mind wants to do this for 40hrs a week?
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Ru1N View Post

      (6.67 is how many articles can be written in an hour)
      HERP DERP LET'S DO SOME MATH AND PRETEND IT'S REALITY, LOL


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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by Ru1N View Post

      Just FYI....

      1 Article x $5 x 6.67 = $33.35/hr x 40 = $1334/wk x 4 = 5336 x 12 = $64,032/yr

      (6.67 is how many articles can be written in an hour)

      From this point, hire 10 writers for $3/500 article...
      55.58333 WPM is doable...in theory. The variable in your equation is THOUGHT. It may be possible to type that quickly for that amount of time, but words in the form of complete sentences in the form of a coherent article do not flow at the same rate.

      Add in research time.

      Add in thinking time.

      Add in formatting the article time.

      Add in editing (even if it's a quick once-over).

      Then that 6.67 number goes down substantially. But even if it's 4 articles an hour, that can be a nice chunk of change for a lot of people.

      Math is great, and it's logical; however, you also have to use logical inputs if you want anything approaching an accurate equation.

      Your point still makes sense, but the 6.67 figure doesn't pan out in the real world.

      All the best,
      Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    Danielle, I was ready to go off on you when I read the title. I had a story about when I was publishing a poker magazine ready to share. You were going to be outwitted, outclassed, and outsmarted.

    You lucked out. Nice post, Danielle.
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  • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
    I use TextBroker and honestly pay $12 per article now. I have seen extremely high quality, great service, and find that they do a much better job and are reliable.

    I used to run my business by paying only $3 per article, then $5, but I saw that quality wasn't always that great. People have no reason to write 500 words for $5. It's just not worth it to people.

    IMO TextBroker has a great service and I don't mind paying $8 to $12 per article, especially because they convert way better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Doitfirstleader
    I have always done marketing but have not got into article writing. I understand that you need good content. Do you use spinners with anything you do?

    Robert Peterson
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
    Banned
    I don't get why people pay for articles when they can just start a forum and generate high quality content for free. Just look at this thread, it's chock full of high quality info. :p
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  • Profile picture of the author sharpturn
    I outsource my articles to two people. One from the Phillippines and the other from Kenya. I pay less than $5 per article.

    Both have good grammar, punctuation and spelling.

    I do have to go in and double check everything and I may find a little mistake
    here or there but this takes me no more than a couple of minutes.

    I think if you hunt around you can find pretty good writers who charge
    very little for their work.
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  • Profile picture of the author LeeLee
    I find the ethnocentric pairing of cheap ($5) writing and offshore writers offensive. Not all cheap writers are offshore and not all premium writers are onshore.

    I look forward to the day that those offshore writers who charge a livable rate for their country figure out they can be mini kings by charging more.

    Then the real fun will begin.
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    • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
      Originally Posted by LeeLee View Post

      I find the ethnocentric pairing of cheap ($5) writing and offshore writers offensive. Not all cheap writers are offshore and not all premium writers are onshore.

      I look forward to the day that those offshore writers who charge a livable rate for their country figure out they can be mini kings by charging more.

      Then the real fun will begin.
      It is, what it is, Lee. And it's not just writing. It's just a fact that you can get everything from cosmetic surgery and dentistry to enterprise software development to clothing manufacture done cheaper offshore.

      It's not an ethnocentric slur, just a simple fact.

      And I also look forward to the day when offshore writers level the playing field.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ru1N
    @Courtney Keene - I just made a formula, it theoretically works...also think about the chicken you eat, the rice you cook....do you know what people do to provide that to stores? People work in slaughterhouses, on farms, and in many other places doing horrendous jobs, at way less then minimum wage, 33/hr for typing on a computer is not half bad. Especially if you can find people to do it for you. Also you could always split it up, who says it has to be continuous? You could outsource, too. Just being proactive

    @CDarklock - Could you possibly lurkmoar? Math is fundamental to the existence of the universe. Math is reality. Just because you may not have the discipline to enact something like this, does not mean it is not possible. They once said man would never fly....well look at us now! We've hit hypersonic speeds at Mach 7. (Thank you Math)


    @Ken_Caudill - What? You can write six articles, and then only a fraction of another article. Just like you can write a whole sentence or an incomple

    You see what i just did there...that's like 97% of a sentence.

    Now, i think you could totally make some great legit money from this, I mean maybe not at 40 hours, but if you wrote 60 articles, that would be 300 extra in your pocket for like 10-15 hours of work. I mean 3 articles an hour would be 15 bucks an hour...that is double minimum wage for an hours work....Use your heads.


    However, I have to add...you get what you pay for, but its not bad if you need to scrape together a few extra bucks =/ most companies i know pay about 65-120 an article from vendors (Mine included) and bad content still can slip through the cracks yah know?

    $5 dollar articles are not for people to read, they are to provide links and relevancy for SEO value and site rankings =/

    I would never use them to populate a site that I wanted to have traffic or sell a product.
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    • Profile picture of the author sam12six
      Originally Posted by Ru1N View Post

      @Courtney Keene - I just made a formula, it theoretically works...also think about the chicken you eat, the rice you cook....do you know what people do to provide that to stores? People work in slaughterhouses, on farms, and in many other places doing horrendous jobs, at way less then minimum wage, 33/hr for typing on a computer is not half bad. Especially if you can find people to do it for you. Also you could always split it up, who says it has to be continuous? You could outsource, too. Just being proactive
      Because the fact that some people have more unpleasant jobs than others is so relevant...


      Originally Posted by Ru1N View Post

      @Courtney Keene - I just made a formula, it theoretically
      @CDarklock - Could you possibly lurkmoar? Math is fundamental to the existence of the universe. Math is reality. Just because you may not have the discipline to enact something like this, does not mean it is not possible. They once said man would never fly....well look at us now! We've hit hypersonic speeds at Mach 7. (Thank you Math)
      He wasn't mocking your math. He was mocking your arbitrary assertion that someone could write 6.67 (good, properly researched) articles per hour.

      I can do it too:

      Most companies charge hundreds to paint houses. You could make a killing undercutting them.

      $25 * 400 (the number of houses you can paint in a day) = $10,000/day - that's good money!!

      See? Even though the math is right, I'd still be an idiot to believe this.

      Originally Posted by Ru1N View Post

      @Courtney Keene - I just made a formula, it theoretically
      @Ken_Caudill - What? You can write six articles, and then only a fraction of another article. Just like you can write a whole sentence or an incomple

      You see what i just did there...that's like 97% of a sentence.

      Now, i think you could totally make some great legit money from this, I mean maybe not at 40 hours, but if you wrote 60 articles, that would be 300 extra in your pocket for like 10-15 hours of work. I mean 3 articles an hour would be 15 bucks an hour...that is double minimum wage for an hours work....Use your heads.
      Unless you're either writing articles on a subject that you're an absolute expert on (or pure opinion blog post type content), you're not going to produce anything even resembling quality at 7 minutes a pop.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ru1N
        While i did just edit my previous article...When...please...When did i say anything about QUALITY? $5 dollar articles are pure Link and SEO.....nothing to do with quality. Just some relevancy and link building. I grabbed the number 6.67 from OP's post that you can write 1 article in 9 minutes at 60 wpm ....I am using that as a basis.

        I used unpleasant jobs because Courtney said "Who would want to do that?" I was pointing out people do much worse for less.


        Also...your saying it's impossible...you could paint 400 houses for 25 bucks, granted it would be a **** job...but you could do it...drive by with a paintball gun xD


        Also let me add...I am not necessarily on the side of cheap articles...I am an SEO specialist, trust me, I hate people who undercut and "devalue" the business.....

        *Edit* Rather I hate when*

        but in the end $5 link articles are a different business with a different purpose
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        • Profile picture of the author sam12six
          Originally Posted by Ru1N View Post

          While i did just edit my previous article...When...please...When did i say anything about QUALITY? $5 dollar articles are pure Link and SEO.....nothing to do with quality. Just some relevancy and link building. I grabbed the number 6.67 from OP's post that you can write 1 article in 9 minutes at 60 wpm ....I am using that as a basis.
          Her statements in that post were all sarcastic, not meant for someone to jump in and defend them. (Maybe your replies were sarcasm and I missed it?)

          Originally Posted by Ru1N View Post

          I used unpleasant jobs because Courtney said "Who would want to do that?" I was pointing out people do much worse for less.


          Also...your saying it's impossible...you could paint 400 houses for 25 bucks, granted it would be a **** job...but you could do it...drive by with a paintball gun xD


          Also let me add...I am not necessarily on the side of cheap articles...I am an SEO specialist, trust me, I hate people who undercut and "devalue" the business.....
          I get what you're saying.

          These daily "writing quality versus writing cost" threads are all just spun content. They are the same tail-chasing exercise as the previous ones, just with different verbiage.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Ru1N View Post

      Math is fundamental to the existence of the universe. Math is reality.
      In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

      In mathematics, there is no difference between mathematics and reality. In reality...
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  • Profile picture of the author Courtney Keene
    I do see your point, Ru1N. And maybe if you were saying... oh, I dunno. 3 articles in an hour. I'd still dispute that they're either not researched, or they're poorly written, or perhaps both. But I suppose I could wrap my brain around that a little easier.

    I just don't see where you're getting 6-7 articles an hour. That's 10 minutes an article or less. The only way I could see someone doing that is if they steamrolled through it with one stream-of-consciousness outpouring of words.

    I can count on one hand the number of times I've been able to sit down and write start to finish just completely pounding out word after word without any stopping to think or any editing for typos and such inbetween.
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  • Profile picture of the author howdab2
    Here's a fun way to spend the day: cozy up with a glass of Merlot and pull out your red pen as you get to work spending endless hours fixing treasures such as 'I you have ladies shoes is a good way to buy them for feet' and 'Weight loss pro is a good because is for weight loser.'

    lmao - great post!
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  • Profile picture of the author visimedia
    cool,,, so now likely offer lower than $5 for an article ...
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Harper
    I've seen this same argument multiple times here, but never once has anyone posted a link to what they consider to be a well written $5 article.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Daniel Harper View Post

      I've seen this same argument multiple times here, but never once has anyone posted a link to what they consider to be a well written $5 article.
      And I've never seen a link posted to what they consider to be a well written $50 article.
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    • Originally Posted by Daniel Harper View Post

      I've seen this same argument multiple times here, but never once has anyone posted a link to what they consider to be a well written $5 article.
      I could give you many such links. However, I suspect it might degenerate into grammar policing and nitpicking, which would prove nothing. You and I probably have different definitions of well-written. I'll take charm and a conversational tone over technical brilliance most days, seeing as I publish stuff that's meant to be read by humans.

      fLufF
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      • Profile picture of the author DanielleLynnCopy
        Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

        I could give you many such links. However, I suspect it might degenerate into grammar policing and nitpicking, which would prove nothing. You and I probably have different definitions of well-written. I'll take charm and a conversational tone over technical brilliance most days, seeing as I publish stuff that's meant to be read by humans.

        fLufF
        --
        Tina already has posted an example of a gem of a $5 article.

        Is it groundbreaking? No - but it has a conversational tone, it's easy to read, and it delivers information in an easy to digest way.

        But as Tina pointed out, writers of that quality are hard to find for $5 per article. You'd likely have to burn a bit of money before you found someone that wrote like that for that price.

        However, if you'd still like to post up a good $5 article that you feel is a worthy example, why not post up one of your own? :confused:
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        • Originally Posted by DanielleLynnCopy View Post

          But as Tina pointed out, writers of that quality are hard to find for $5 per article. You'd likely have to burn a bit of money before you found someone that wrote like that for that price.
          I've never found it difficult, though I concede others might. Any time I read something I like I ask the writer if s/he wants to do a post for me. Amazingly, many do.

          Have I gotten burned by the very occasional Fiverr hire? Sure, when I was too lazy to read their stuff first. Here's an example:

          Holy cow: Put out to pasture on the content farm

          fLufF
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Of course - and that's your own experience. It won't be the same for anyone else as buyer and writers are different.

            The problem I have is with lumping "article writers" into a group of price points. It isn't that simple.

            The work I do is definitely not at the lower price level - but it's detailed work that requires knowing facts and laws and requires a considerable amount of writing experience and knowledge.

            But they are "articles". That's the problem I have with the general "you can get articles for $5". Of course you can and if they suit your needs, that's a great price to pay. They won't suit all buyers and that's why I dislike the threads that talk about article writing as if all articles written fall into one category. They don't.

            It's like saying "you can buy a book for $5" - of course you can. But it may not be the book YOU want to read. To each his own.

            kay
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              The work I do is definitely not at the lower price level - but it's detailed work that requires knowing facts and laws and requires a considerable amount of writing experience and knowledge.
              kay
              Excellent point Kay. Not only are there different levels of article writing, but writing in general. Sales copy is not something that I would look for "the best price". I would hire that crazy guy from France, Mal, who is definitely not in the cheap category, but I love his style of writing.

              Documentation or technical writing is another different ballgame and requires a whole different skill set.

              Writing proposals, something I used to a lot of, is another category.

              Not all writers can write all things. I hire writers for my needs at the moment, but one size does not fit all.
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  • Profile picture of the author RatRaceWatch
    Originally Posted by DanielleLynnCopy View Post



    -$5 articles only take a few minutes to create. Most writers can type 60 words per minute, so after 9 minutes, you should already have a 560 word article! I mean, sure it's gibberish, but as long as they get the keyword density to 3-5%, who cares? Plus, most of the time, they simply use PLRs or spin some content - that takes only 3-4 minutes tops! Heck, you could even set up your dog at the keyboard if you feel up to it. What's the difference?

    Haha I appreciate your boldness, and it's a very interesting perspective. I'm going to disagree with the point I quoted above - "sure it's gibberish" "who cares?", thus the reason why many sites are getting hit by google.

    Personally I'd rather have quality than quantity.

    One of my article writers is in the profession my niche is in and charges $15 per article, but it's worth every penny because she also gives personal perspective from being in the field, which I would take any day over paying $5 for something I can do myself since I type 65-70 wpm ;0
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    Originally Posted by DanielleLynnCopy View Post

    Every once in a while, a thread gets posted asking where a person can buy cheap articles.

    And each time a thread like that starts, the poster has to face the scrutiny of the warrior writers... who make a lot of excellent points on why it's a bad idea to pay less than $5 for an article.

    But I felt like playing devil's advocate: I went ahead and thought about the benefits of getting a $5 article and wrote up a full blog post exploring the thought. Here's part of it:


    5 reasons why you should never pay more than $5 for an article


    -$5 article writers don't waste your time with pesky research. If you want to look like an innovator in your market, the best thing to do is pay someone to copy and rehash the same tired material that's been written a million times before! Research? Bah. Let a $5 article writer search Google and copy another person's article, and just throw in a few sexy adjectives to make sure it slides by Copyscape.

    -$5 articles only take a few minutes to create. Most writers can type 60 words per minute, so after 9 minutes, you should already have a 560 word article! I mean, sure it's gibberish, but as long as they get the keyword density to 3-5%, who cares? Plus, most of the time, they simply use PLRs or spin some content - that takes only 3-4 minutes tops! Heck, you could even set up your dog at the keyboard if you feel up to it. What's the difference?

    -$5 articles are great for filling up empty space. It's not like you actually want to sell anything or get loyal readers!. All that matters is you put up something on your website so that people casually passing by don't ask themselves "Why is this page empty?"

    -$5 articles help you pretend you're saving money. I mean, of course you're going to have to spend several hours of your own time sorting through plagiarized and unreadable work, and have to go through $100-$200 worth of $5 articles till you find one semi-legible...but unreadable or not, more is always better.

    -$5 articles give you a chance to brush up on your grammar proofing skills Here's a fun way to spend the day: cozy up with a glass of Merlot and pull out your red pen as you get to work spending endless hours fixing treasures such as 'I you have ladies shoes is a good way to buy them for feet' and 'Weight loss pro is a good because is for weight loser.' Heck, after you spend a few intense hours working on them, the article might even become readable!



    (Be honest -- did the thread title make you grind your teeth a little? )
    Danielle, I was ready to pounce you! lol. Clever, and a time is coming very quickly when the cheap content/decent content debate will be over. Google's on a mission to rid the web of fluff, just enjoy the cheap content while it last. :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author grandstar
    I am from the third world and can state that $5 can go a long way. A decent haircut cost about $1.25. To rent a decent 3br flat in an upper middle class part of town cost about $500 monthly. So 10 articles a day at $5 each does pay. I hate writing articles though
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      There are buyers at every price level - and providers at every level. These threads always end up going the same way.

      Thing is - you can only decide what articles are worth to you and what level of detail/info you need. You can't decide for others what they "should" pay or how short/long, detailed/general their articles "should" be.

      For a writer, pricing should be based on their hourly expectation of $$ and their skills/experience. For a buyer it should be based on the level and depth of info needed in an article.

      If you are happy with the articles you get - you are paying enough for them. If you are comfortable with what you earn, you are charging the right price. How hard is that?

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author DanielleLynnCopy
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      I'm more confused about the "Why" this topic gets under the skins of so many people than anything else.

      How much someone charges for their article writing is no one's business but the person doing the writing. What level of quality is acceptable is no one's business but the person buying them.

      Dr. Mani provided a terrific example of the disparities in economics at work here. Like him, if all I really wanted to do was make a comfortable living here in Greece, I would only need to write and sell 5 to 7 good quality articles a day for five bucks a pop. I can have that work finished well before lunchtime and do whatever I want with the rest of the day.

      Conversely, I could choose to do like Bryan and charge $350 or more for my articles and write 3 or 4 a month and live comfortably on that. There'd be no real difference in quality from my perspective. I'd just need to spend time building up a solid client list and hanging onto them.

      Regardless of which scenario I might choose as a writer, that's my business. No one else has a right to tell me I'm doing something wrong except for my customers.

      For anyone with excellent research and writing skills, the cost of living in many countries is such that, a well-written article sold for $5 is very profitable. This is applicable to virtually any service oriented work...look at how little a staffer earns in an Indian hospital compared to a US hospital. It's also why the "Medical Tourism" industry came about...low-cost medical procedures of equal quality.

      The argument itself is pointless - how any given person chooses to run their business and what resources they decide to use is entirely up to them. There is no right or wrong...better or worse except in terms of how it impacts the bottom line.

      Any genuine business organization will continually focus on ways to reduce overhead costs as long as they do not negatively affect long-term profitability.

      From a writer's perspective, if you're talented, then you shouldn't be wasting your time worrying about what the "Econo-Writers" are doing or competing with them. You should be focusing on building and serving a list of clients who are willing to pay you for your abilities.

      If you can profit from higher-priced articles, then just do it. Quit complaining about those who are equally satisfied with profiting from writing $5 articles. They aren't going away and you will never be able compete with them, so why try? They're filling a market demand, nothing more - you need to focus on meeting the demands of a different, albeit much smaller market segment.

      If anything, I would think that really talented writers would have no problem getting top dollar for their work...the econo-writers out there are probably doing you a favor.

      At the end of the day, only you can decide what you're willing to charge or pay for anything and how that fits with your own business activities.

      Everyone else should just mind their own business
      Hi Big Mike,

      You brought up some very insightful thoughts, and clearly, you understand that there's a market space for every price, type, and quality level of product/service out there.

      For example, an upper class restaurant serving $14 burgers isn't going to be mad at McDonalds for selling $1 burgers.

      They're not competing for the same customers.

      However, I disagree with the bolded statement in your quote above. What I would have said is a "market-savvy writer" knows how to bring in clients at their desired price points. Because even if an article writer is very good at writing, without proper marketing they usually have to struggle to find clients (especially if they're only searching online.)

      Instead, they head over to places like Elance and Odesk to find work - only to gape at the $2-5 articles being offered there. It's frustrating, and there's no answers for them.

      These writers get discouraged - or think they HAVE to write at that rate - when they don't.

      So while I agree that there's no need to get emotional about the existence of $5 articles, I believe it's important to have discussions like this one.

      Discussions where we can see arguments and perspectives from all sides of the fence are very worthwhile - and enlightening for us all.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by DanielleLynnCopy View Post

        These writers get discouraged - or think they HAVE to write at that rate - when they don't.

        So while I agree that there's no need to get emotional about the existence of $5 articles, I believe it's important to have discussions like this one.
        Well, here's the thing. If they are offshore writers writing for $5 and competing with US writers for US writing jobs, yeah ... they do have to offer a far better price than a US writer would.

        Why? Because my money and many other people's money will stay in the US with US writers if there is no price benefit. Same with any other service. The only reason that offshore providers have been able to take US jobs from US providers is because of price.

        Take that advantage away, and they lose a large portion of their market.

        I often hire US writers that are starting out and want to build up their portfolio and their business and charge less than they are worth. When they raise their prices, if they have lived up to my expectations, I pay their price.
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      • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author DanielleLynnCopy
          Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

          I would agree, except that is not at all what your OP is about or what many of the followup comments are saying.

          I don't see any discussion about helping writers find their way into a segment of that market that will pay appropriately for their particular talents other than belittling those who write or buy low-priced article content.



          I agree, but I see this as yet another thread that needlessly bashes a productive market segment because a smallish group within the broader market disagree with the pricing model.

          Honestly, I fail to see where it's any more enlightening than the other 100 or so past threads on the subject that do exactly the same thing.

          If your goal is to help writers break through into a higher-priced market, I have utterly missed that part of the discussion somehow.
          That's because 'helping writers break through into a higher-priced market' wasn't the original point of this thread: the thread was originally created so people could have a little fun and approach a common topic from a different perspective.

          The discussion has evolved into something else altogether, and that's what I was commenting on.

          But I appreciate you sharing your opinions
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      • Profile picture of the author sam12six
        Originally Posted by DanielleLynnCopy View Post

        Hi Big Mike,

        You brought up some very insightful thoughts, and clearly, you understand that there's a market space for every price, type, and quality level of product/service out there.

        For example, an upper class restaurant serving $14 burgers isn't going to be mad at McDonalds for selling $1 burgers.

        They're not competing for the same customers.
        While I agree with your general concept here, I believe the reason all the discussions on this subject always degenerate into the same argument is that there's a group that claim they're both burgers, so why pay $14 when you can get one for $1.

        It's two groups who both have fears and those fears drive the arguments:

        One group uses inexpensive articles and fears that the writers of cheap articles will become "infected" with the mindset that they should charge more.

        The second group are writers who feel that their work provides more value than the cheap writers and fears the clients they work with will become "infected" with the idea that they should pay far less for their content.

        The truth is that there are always going to be writers of varying skill levels at every price point and buyers for that content. None of our discussions here are going to change that.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by sam12six View Post

          The truth is that there are always going to be writers of varying skill levels at every price point and buyers for that content. None of our discussions here are going to change that.
          Maybe.

          I see what you're saying, of course, in principle.

          In reality, though, I suspect that that isn't actually quite as uniformly true as one might imagine, because the market's actually a slightly distorted one.

          I think the reality is that for $5 articles, there are an awful lot of sellers and not so many buyers, pro rata, at any given moment. Part of the reason for that is that quite a lot (I'm not saying "all" or even necessarily "most") of the people buying $5 articles are people who don't ever really get going in article marketing, and their own businesses don't succeed, so some of them disappear as customers. But there's a huge supply of writers, partly because every time someone starts off a thread here asking "How shall I make money online?", six people promptly reply - regardless of the apparent literacy-level of the OP - saying "Sell articles on Fiverr".

          I think writers selling articles for $5 need to keep replacing a proportion of their clients over and over again. They have to advertise/promote more or less continually.

          That isn't true of people selling articles for $100, partly because their clients know how to use them, know exactly what they want and why, have successful, established businesses, and keep coming back for more. This was my experience as an article writer, anyway - a couple of years ago. (I don't do it any more, now). You don't see writers of $100 articles advertising all the time. And that isn't because they're not "out there"/"in here": they most certainly are. It's because they're fully booked.

          Underlying all of this, of course, is a huge spread of meanings/interpretations of the word "article". Some people think of "a 300-word chunk of keyword-loaded text which passes Copyscape and to which backlinks can be attached" as an "article". (Many of those clients tend not to "stay the course"). Others have a rather more demanding and exacting definition of the word.
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    • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      I'm more confused about the "Why" this topic gets under the skins of so many people than anything else.

      How much someone charges for their article writing is no one's business but the person doing the writing. What level of quality is acceptable is no one's business but the person buying them.

      ...

      At the end of the day, only you can decide what you're willing to charge or pay for anything and how that fits with your own business activities.

      Everyone else should just mind their own business

      Couldn't agree more. But there are people whose only criteria is that they get the cheapest writing possible, who loudly insist that anyone who doesn't want to work for less than minimum wage is ripping off buyers.

      This is what I object to.

      Because who the hell is someone who has never paid me a single dime for my work, to claim that I am a con-artist bull****ter because I value, and charge for, my time at a rate that allows me to keep a roof over MY head and feed MY family?

      I live in the United States. Don't expect me to work for Third World rates. And I shouldn't be expected to do so. I shouldn't be ridiculed and slandered for doing so.

      And the strident defense of low wages, REGARDLESS of skill level, smacks of "Methinks thou protesteth too much."

      And, yeah - I'm dying for the day when GOOD offshore writers wake up and charge what they're worth.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post

        Couldn't agree more. But there are people whose only criteria is that they get the cheapest writing possible, who loudly insist that anyone who doesn't want to work for less than minimum wage is ripping off buyers.

        This is what I object to.

        Because who the hell is someone who has never paid me a single dime for my work, to claim that I am a con-artist bull****ter because I value, and charge for, my time at a rate that allows me to keep a roof over MY head and feed MY family?

        I live in the United States. Don't expect me to work for Third World rates. And I shouldn't be expected to do so. I shouldn't be ridiculed and slandered for doing so.

        And the strident defense of low wages, REGARDLESS of skill level, smacks of "Methinks thou protesteth too much."

        And, yeah - I'm dying for the day when GOOD offshore writers wake up and charge what they're worth.
        I didn't see anyone in this thread accusing you of ripping off buyers or call you a con-artist bull****ter. I also didn't see anyone who expected you to work for Third World rates. I believe that most people said charge what you think you're worth. That being said, offshore providers also have the right to choose their price point and to keep a roof over their families heads and food on their tables.

        I also didn't see anyone ridicule or slander, although the offshore writers have certainly been ridiculed and slandered in this thread. This thread wasn't about you, although you seem to think it is.

        According to most of the opinions of the people who object to $5 writers in this thread, offshore writers wouldn't be making jack squat because they have been depicted as a "monkey typing on a keyboard" and numerous other unflattering characterizations.

        To insinuate that they produce a bunch of crap on one hand and then to insinuate that they are not being paid what they are worth ... well, exactly how much is a bunch of crap worth to you?

        I don't buy crap, personally. I'm happy with the product I receive and the writers I work with are happy with the money they get, which usually includes bonuses from me when they over-perform beyond my expectations. In addition to being happy with the product I get, they're usually very pleasant individuals to work with. That's always a bonus.
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  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    Originally Posted by DanielleLynnCopy View Post

    -$5 article writers don’t waste your time with pesky research.
    This is often overlooked by many marketers. Research and writing are two different things. If you only want the article, don't pay for the research too. In many cases you will want to outsource research separate from writing.


    -$5 articles only take a few minutes to create


    Since you are outsourcing and not actually expecting delivery in 5 minutes, this doesn't impact you unless you are the actual writer. But for cheap short articles, you should expect quick delivery times.


    -$5 articles are great for filling up empty space.
    This is especially true when using backlink building tools like SENuke. Why pay $30 for an article you are going to spin endlessly and post on various properties for backlink juice, not for reading?


    -$5 articles help you pretend you’re saving money.
    IM is one area where self-delusion can carry you a long way while doing nothing.


    -$5 articles give you a chance to brush up on your grammar proofing skills
    And article spinners produce worse grammer than non-English speaking writers! Nothing makes someone click on an adsense ad faster than an unreadable article.


    (Be honest — did the thread title make you grind your teeth a little? )
    Yes, I would hardly say NEVER pay more than $5 articles, but there are a million and one business models that don't depend on QUALITY content, though many newbies would argue the opposite.



    Mahlon
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  • Profile picture of the author EvolBaby
    I have no idea how I got into writing articles and copy for blogs and websites since I get paid crazy money for writing comics and scripts. I figured it would be a great way to make pocket money while negotiating with studios and such.

    It did turn out that way but I didn't take it that seriously as the stuff I was writing was on subject matter I needed to learn or refresh myself on. It's like being paid to study.

    Getting paid the bigger dollars for writing online seems to me a triple stroke, promotion, referrals, luck.

    There are some sites you can promote on and get lots of work. Some sites work well for some writers and not for others. I don't pitch for writing on WF anymore except in my sig. It's a dead zone. However I can find a small IM message board and promote and be booked up.

    Clients who really appreciate you will pay more. Sometimes you work low at first and then after proving your work relationship a client can't do without you. I don't know of any WSO or e-book that shows how to get the higher prices for writing, but the old methods seem to work. Introduce yourself, prove yourself, advance yourself.
    Signature
    Copywriting/Article Writing at $2 per 100 words! Cartoons, Comics, T-Shirt Designs!
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  • Profile picture of the author Fat Mike
    As a very experience writer who makes a lot of money from his work, I would just like to say this:

    Clients who want cheap work and beg to get articles at the cheapest possible price are also the biggest pain in the ass - demanding articles are delivered yesterday, adding bits of information they "forgot" to tell me to include in the articles AFTER I have written them, and generally being idiots.
    Signature

    Fat Guys Write Best!

    Mike@contentsolutionsonline.com

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  • Profile picture of the author lastreporter
    Interesting article. It makes many valid points about the state of IM and freelance writing.
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  • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
    Article price and quality level do not always go hand in hand.

    I have paid $5, $8, $12, $14, $25, $40 for various articles and the only thing that really seemed relevant to quality was the writer themselves, not the price bracket.
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  • Profile picture of the author jryan84
    I'm glad this wasn't a serious thread. I agree, you get what you pay for and if you pay for next to nothing that's what you'll get. I'm sure you can sometimes get lucky with one of these articles but that's more the exception than the rule.
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  • Profile picture of the author bloomingrose
    Well I have learned a lot from this thread. One is that I really want some custom lighted jars and bottles - thanks to kmusselman. I had never heard of them, and now I have to have them.
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  • Profile picture of the author LeeLee
    You might enjoy this thread Ernie... you are not alone.

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ily-basis.html
    Signature
    The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of nonessentials. ~ Lin Yutang
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  • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
    I've used several writers.

    In an attempt to 'test' and find great writers, at various price points, I've engaged several writers and have spent thousands on different article writing services.

    I've never actually sold my writing, though...so, I can't speak to that side of the equation.

    I've found several things to be true in all my outsourcing:
    1) People are driven by various different things. Some are internally motivated, some are financially motivated, and some have a combination of motives. People will work for what they'll work for.

    2) People 'seem' to prefer a good boss, over high compensation (and a lousy boss), at least in the long term.

    Never discount the value of pre-planned incentives. My best writer right now has a Master's in English, and writes for $2.50 an article. He loves writing. In all our discussions, he's conveyed it as a way to exercise his writing skill and keep him gainfully employed. To him, the money isn't a main motivator.

    My initial emails to him, follow a well-crafted Craigslist add, clearly conveyed, in utmost transparency, everything that would be expected. No shifty or shady things occurred.

    Even though money isn't his primary motivator, I still toss him $15/$30/$50 bonus from time to time. It's all about being a good person and a good manager, and being in tuned with the person, and KNOWING what they need to motivate and drive them to continue to be productive. Where the pay/article is "low" by many people's standards, the bonuses make for great 'surprises' at the perfect times (around Christmas, etc).

    We have a closer relationship than most will ever have with their writers.

    Some will go to the ends of the earth, and sacrifice compensation, just to be treated with dignity and respect.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    (Be honest -- did the thread title make you grind your teeth a little? )
    I'm going to be calling my dentist in the morning.

    There are many people that actually believe in the $5.00 writer. It's very inspirational. Right now I'm looking for the $5.00 world class website designer, the $5.00 award winning graphics designer - and maybe if I offer a real upscale like $6.00 Frank Kern himself might be interested in doing my next salespage.

    I'm keeping my $10.00 per hour lawyer, though - I know it's spendy, but he was with me a long time.

    For those who claim to be writers that write for $5.00 an article -- are you sure you are a writer? Just because you have written a few articles and sold them does not make you an actual writer. I've made webpages before, but that doesn't make me a web designer. I've done a few images, too - but I'm not a graphics artist.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author Don Luis
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      For those who claim to be writers that write for $5.00 an article -- are you sure you are a writer? Just because you have written a few articles and sold them does not make you an actual writer. I've made webpages before, but that doesn't make me a web designer. I've done a few images, too - but I'm not a graphics artist.
      I had a consultation with my doctor and paid him $10 more or less. And yes, he is a real licensed medical doctor.
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    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      Originally Posted by Danielle Clarke View Post

      ... good article writing for the web requires a great deal of skill), whereas writers use language to portray ideas and images across a wide range of subjects and formats.
      Absolutely. And showcasing that is a "marketing challenge", or more
      specifically, an "educational" problem in that the writer must educate
      a prospect about what value s/he brings to the table.

      I crafted a short report to help with that, called "The Death of $5 Article
      Writing" - you can read it here:

      http://EzineMarketingCenter.com/deathofarticles.pdf

      Imagine handing this over to a prospective writing client before you quote
      your charges

      All success
      Dr.Mani
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    Don't y'all have better things to do than squabble about the price of articles...like running your business's and making money?

    -Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      Don't y'all have better things to do than squabble about the price of articles...like running your business's and making money?

      -Chris

      I stole the following from you, just for instances like this one.


      Signature
      Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
      Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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  • Profile picture of the author Zaheera
    Great views, may be $5 article writers are new and have less experience.
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  • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
    Well I was a five dollar writer for the past week, and let me tell you it was grueling.

    I signed up for fiverr and somehow got on the first page and got way more "gigs" than I ever could have imagined. I found myself cringing when I looked at my e-mails because sure enough, there almost always was at least one new order.

    I suspended my account yesterday. These people - my clients - got GREAT articles. I love to write, take pride in my writing, but take pride in myself too. $5 an article is not enough for me - not for the quality I give them.

    Lesson learned. For some people it may be okay. For me it was too much work for too little money.
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    • Profile picture of the author mounds
      Originally Posted by doingwrite View Post

      Well I was a five dollar writer for the past week, and let me tell you it was grueling.

      I signed up for fiverr and somehow got on the first page and got way more "gigs" than I ever could have imagined. I found myself cringing when I looked at my e-mails because sure enough, there almost always was at least one new order.
      I had a similar experience working on Fiverr.

      I just can't sell something that I'm not happy with so I usually spent at least an hour creating an article. If I really pushed it, I could crank one out in 45 minutes. Those hours added up quickly but unfortunately, the earnings did not.

      I'm just getting back into the IM game now (after a three month break) and I'm considering other options. I'm pretty sure I only get one shot at life... Doesn't seem wise to spend most of my free time pounding out articles I don't believe in.
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  • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
    Thanks to my android tablet and a stylus Pen writing articles has become so much easier its just like taking down notes With a Pen and paper
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    • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
      Originally Posted by niffybranco View Post

      Thanks to my android tablet and a stylus Pen writing articles has become so much easier its just like taking down notes With a Pen and paper
      Well I will admit one thing that happened in this past week was that I got alot faster at writing the articles than I was before! But if you are to write a good, optimized piece, it still takes time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vawriters
    I think we should see the definition of the quality, "quality is customer satisfaction" so "value for money" is important, someone may pay just $5 for link building articles and some one will pay more to write a blog, so it varies with the customer's requirement.
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  • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
    To optimize posts is quite easy for me I Simply use the WPSEO Plugin
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  • Profile picture of the author camilinks
    Check out textbroker and see for yourselves what the difference is between $5 ones and $25 ones.
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  • Profile picture of the author Winlin
    This topic always starts a "brawl" here at the forum.
    In my experiences I've learned a few things, not many, but a few:

    I've learned-that in a free market society, the market will ultimately decide the value of a product or service.

    I've learned- that you can obtain adequately and sometime even brilliantly written copy for product reviews, forum posts and blog content for $5.00 . (250-500 word articles)

    I've learned- that good (not even great) writers can demand 10-20 times this rate-that's $50-$100 per article- If they can identify and sell themselves to the markets willing to pay these fees.

    I've learned- that you will need skills above and beyond the ability to write to accomplish this.

    I've learned-that the majority will either just accept the $5.00 and be content or they will write a couple of articles for $5.00 and realize it's not for them.

    I've learned that this will not change until the market has a shortage of writers looking to pick up a quick $5.00 and willing to write 250-500 word articles in exchange. -Not likely to happen soon-

    Right, wrong or indifferent, these are the realities and no amount of discussion regarding whether it's "fair" or "right" will change it. It's up to the writer what they are willing to accept.

    By the way I've paid as little as $5.00 and as much as $50.00 for a haircut. Sometimes the $5.00 haircut was as good as I've ever had, quite often it was only adequate, but always worth the $5.00.

    -winlin
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  • Profile picture of the author Regal Content
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    • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      That's really no different than defending high prices REGARDLESS of skill level....

      ...Poor quality writing doesn't come into the equation as far as I'm concerned, because only idiots pay anything at all for that. This level of writing has no value and therefore no price point from my perspective.

      When it comes stereotyping by price, that's when I start protesting; but it's the bias that I'm protesting about...

      ...If I learned anything from that experience, it's that it all boils down to one thing - the individual doing the work. Not the price, not their location, not even their education...just a specific person's mindset, work ethics and talent for using the language....

      ...At one point I was budgeting $30K a year for content writers. To be honest, a lot of that budget was pissed away because of inconsistencies, plagiarism, missed deadlines, etc., etc.

      From a business perspective, I need to balance the expense of obtaining content in volume against the cost. Quality is very important in that formula, so it's a juggling act...

      ...My particular business model can't afford top dollar writers. The numbers just don't work, but that's all it is...just business.
      Absolutely. The stereotype cuts both ways. In various writing forums, I've seen writers from other countries who could easily command "U.S." prices, based purely on the quality of their writing. Indeed, if you didn't know, you wouldn't know, that English isn't their first language.

      At the same time, I've seen some dreadful writing (not just in IM) from people who are "professional" writers and editors.

      Just a few months ago, I edited a manuscript for an author who was upset that her (previously "professionally" edited) manuscript had been emphatically rejected by a publisher as "dreadful". After re-editing, it was accepted by the same publisher. The author thought she was getting a bargain on the editing, but in the long run, it cost her - because her manuscript was rejected.

      As you say, it's "just business". And each business has to be realistic about the business model that is going to be most effective for THEIR business. Sometimes, that means $5 filler content (see: Dr Mani), and sometimes it means shelling out the bucks for an impeccably ghostwritten piece that will position the "author" as an authority in their field.

      And, you know what? I've written $7 articles, and I don't have a problem with saying that. I didn't have to do much (or any) research to write them, and they were quick and easy to dash off. I can't build an entire business around $7 articles, but I (and my clients) believed it was a fair rate for what was needed and delivered.

      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      As I originally said, good writers charging top dollar need to focus on a different market segment. They need to focus on marketing themselves, developing the kind of brand recognition that stands out and draws an audience.
      I'm finding this out - to my detriment. I'm a very private person, so I struggle with "getting my name out there". Gotta work on that.

      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      Don't focus on the negative aspects of low-priced writers...focus on marketing the proven benefits of working with talented, recognized writers who draw large audiences.
      You're dead right on this. I need to develop a thicker skin when people want to lump all writers into a low-paying commodity. It's the lack of respect for my craft that hits an (admittedly) soft spot of mine.
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      • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        ...
        There are many people that actually believe in the $5.00 writer. It's very inspirational. Right now I'm looking for the $5.00 world class website designer, the $5.00 award winning graphics designer - and maybe if I offer a real upscale like $6.00 Frank Kern himself might be interested in doing my next salespage.

        I'm keeping my $10.00 per hour lawyer, though - I know it's spendy, but he was with me a long time.

        ...I've made webpages before, but that doesn't make me a web designer. I've done a few images, too - but I'm not a graphics artist.
        LOL, Sal! I had some knee surgery done once. Maybe I can pick up a few bucks on the side as an orthopedic surgeon.
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        • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

          ... I've paid $12.00 for articles and then turned around and paid $5.00 per article on the same topic and gotten better quality. A lot of it is guess work, qualifying your writers, checking reviews and examples, etc. Even if someone has several raving reviews they may not have the writing style that I'm looking for. You just never know.
          I agree with much of what you say here, Joe, except that finding your writer shouldn't be guesswork. Don't go by reviews; ask for a sample of their work in the style and topic that you need. Most pros either have a sample that will suit, or don't mind running up 50 - 100 words as per your request, if they don't.

          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

          Another big question that needs to be addressed is "what is the content going to be used for?"
          That's the FIRST question that should be addressed. By both the writer and the client. Knowing the goal the writing is supposed to accomplish is the baseline for further discussion.

          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

          ...I might pay a bit more ...or just offer more work. That's a big deal for some people too right now.

          Example, I can tell the person that I'll either hire them to write 10 articles for $60.00 or 20 for $100.00. Do a good job and I'll give them more work. If the person needs the money they're going to jump on writing the 20 and getting more work.
          You might be losing some of the more experienced writers like this. I've learned that someone who asks me to write more, for less money, all for the promise of "more work if you do a good job" rarely - if ever - comes through on their promise. Even if they do, it's more low-paying work; not better-paying work.

          Judging from the writers' forums, my experience is all too common. I can't think of a single instance when a writer has taken this type of offer and been happy with the result.

          Just sayin '.

          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

          What it comes down to is a business decision. I look at my budget and know that I can get 2-3 times as much "good enough" content for $5.00 an article from my proven writer as I can "good" content for $10.00 per article or more. Most of the time I end up doing a bit of editing regardless, so for me, paying $5.00 just makes sense.

          ... However, for the projects I'm doing right now paying less just makes good business sense.

          My two bits.

          Joe
          That's a completely realistic assessment of understanding what you're paying for.
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      • Profile picture of the author drmani
        Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post

        Sure, there are always exceptions. And, somewhere out there, there is probably a future James Patterson or Dr. Mani frantically churning out filler fluff for $5.
        Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post

        Sometimes, that means $5 filler content (see: Dr Mani), and sometimes it means shelling out the bucks for an impeccably ghostwritten piece that will position the "author" as an authority in their field.

        Alex, this is the second time in this thread you've associated
        my name with $5 article writing...

        (Y'know the famous Goldfinger quote - "The first time, it's happenstance;
        the second time it's coincidence; the third time it's enemy action!"
        )

        And I just wanted to clarify this:

        My writing services, on the rare occasion that I even offer them
        to anyone, cost between $100 and $250 for a 600-word article.

        And regardless of price, my writing is not "filler content" - except
        when I DELIBERATELY make it so, to fit the purpose for which I'm
        writing!


        My point, throughout this discussion, is that you CAN get high
        quality writing (that's on par with the very best) for $5 if
        you find the right kind of writer BECAUSE that $5 is the
        monetary equivalent (measured in price parity and buying power)
        to around $50 in the US (or more) in certain parts of the world.

        But relying on finding (and keeping) such writers is a risky
        venture in and of itself, hence the cry to value your writers
        so they feel cherished and compensated in proportion to their
        quality.

        All success
        Dr.Mani
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        • Profile picture of the author AlexDawson
          Dr Mani - You completely misunderstood my references to you.

          I was referring to this post (wherein you gave an excellent definition of what one could generally expect from providers at different price points:


          Originally Posted by drmani View Post

          IN GENERAL...

          For $5 you'll expect to get a decent article without too many glaring
          grammar or spelling mistakes with keyword-density as required and
          very modest (or little) value to readers.

          For $250 or higher, you'll expect to get articles that take your
          audience's collective breath away, that wins you fans and evangelists,
          that builds you a brand and repeat visitors, that can lay the foundation
          of YOU being known as the ultimate authority in your niche - because
          the content delivers value, entertainment and information all at once.

          But don't ignore that initial disclaimer... IN GENERAL

          Also don't ignore the technology that's letting software create the
          kind of content that $5 writers are churning out today. Incrementally
          (or should that be decrementally?!) the cost of 'services' that can be
          just as well done by technology/automation have decreased in price,
          often surprisingly suddenly.

          Are YOU, as a low-cost writing services provider, protected against
          that eventuality?

          All success
          Dr.Mani
          In no way did I mean to imply - nor would I ever imply - that your writing is "filler fluff" OR that you fall into the category of people churning out low-value filler content.

          Perhaps I should have quoted you exactly and completely each time, to avoid confusion. My apologies for not doing so. And my apologies for any misunderstandings.

          I, sincerely, have nothing but respect for your writing.
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  • Profile picture of the author LeeLee
    I don't think the newspaper filler example is analagous to web content writing. Correct me if I am wrong but you do not get near a print job without qualifications which usually include formal education specifically in writing or a niche specialty.

    The average filler level article on the web is no where near the quality of filler in a newspaper. And it is not likely to be written by a trained journalist.
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    • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
      Well as a relative newbie to all of this I can say this thread, combined with my grueling week as a fiverr writer, has convinced me more than ever that I put too much into my writing to be paid a mere $5. This is not putting down the people who are satisfied with fiverr - just sayin it didn't work for me. But we all have to start somewhere, and I have never been the "get rich quick" kinda gal so I'm learnin as I'm goin.

      I am going to check out that textbroker site, though. Looks interesting.

      Damn I just love to write and I'm pretty good at it and I want to quit my day job and JUST WRITE!
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    Hi Alex,

    Actually, I have a system that works very well for me AND also benefits my writers. I was going to post about it, but on second thought, I may just turn it into a WSO and either give it away or sell it. :-)

    Joe
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    My New "Share All" Blog Is Coming Soon! Online & Offline Marketing, More!

    http://www.UnCENTSored.com

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  • Profile picture of the author DeborahDera
    The sad part about this thread is that some new marketer without a clue is going to see the title, barely skim the article, and think there is no reason to ever pay more than $5.

    Originally Posted by Danielle Lynn View Post

    Every once in a while, a thread gets posted asking where a person can buy cheap articles.

    And each time a thread like that starts, the poster has to face the scrutiny of the warrior writers... who make a lot of excellent points on why it's a bad idea to pay less than $5 for an article.

    But I felt like playing devil's advocate: I went ahead and thought about the benefits of getting a $5 article and wrote up a full blog post exploring the thought. Here's part of it:


    5 reasons why you should never pay more than $5 for an article


    -$5 article writers don't waste your time with pesky research. If you want to look like an innovator in your market, the best thing to do is pay someone to copy and rehash the same tired material that's been written a million times before! Research? Bah. Let a $5 article writer search Google and copy another person's article, and just throw in a few sexy adjectives to make sure it slides by Copyscape.

    -$5 articles only take a few minutes to create. Most writers can type 60 words per minute, so after 9 minutes, you should already have a 560 word article! I mean, sure it's gibberish, but as long as they get the keyword density to 3-5%, who cares? Plus, most of the time, they simply use PLRs or spin some content - that takes only 3-4 minutes tops! Heck, you could even set up your dog at the keyboard if you feel up to it. What's the difference?

    -$5 articles are great for filling up empty space. It's not like you actually want to sell anything or get loyal readers!. All that matters is you put up something on your website so that people casually passing by don't ask themselves "Why is this page empty?"

    -$5 articles help you pretend you're saving money. I mean, of course you're going to have to spend several hours of your own time sorting through plagiarized and unreadable work, and have to go through $100-$200 worth of $5 articles till you find one semi-legible...but unreadable or not, more is always better.

    -$5 articles give you a chance to brush up on your grammar proofing skills Here's a fun way to spend the day: cozy up with a glass of Merlot and pull out your red pen as you get to work spending endless hours fixing treasures such as 'I you have ladies shoes is a good way to buy them for feet' and 'Weight loss pro is a good because is for weight loser.' Heck, after you spend a few intense hours working on them, the article might even become readable!



    (Be honest -- did the thread title make you grind your teeth a little? )
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  • Profile picture of the author savvybizbuilder
    You must have a bad experienced from your writers. Good thing I wrote my own article for my blog and don't have to spent $5 for my blog post.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
    Wow. Spirited discussion I guess.

    I'm not sure why people care, one way or another, what people are paying for their articles.

    If you get what you want and you're happy with the price, then so be it.

    I just had a HUGE tree taken down between my yard and my neighbors. I didn't get the quotes myself, my neighbor did before I moved in. But she said he had a good reputation and was 1/2 the price of other tree cutting companies. And insurance/bonded obviously.

    Anyways, this dude shows up with no equipment besides ropes and a chainsaw (and lots of cigarettes). He was polite, got the job done, and did a great job.

    If I'm this guy, I'd probably upgrade into some newer equipment and raise the prices a bit. But I guess he's happy.

    So who am I to argue?
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  • Profile picture of the author HazeBlazer
    Wow, so is fiverr really now the best place to buy articles, (As long as your not scared to do a little touch up work yourself)? Where would you other warriors recommend to buy articles? sorry for newbie question but any answer would be appreciated.
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  • Profile picture of the author webpromotions
    Originally Posted by Danielle Lynn View Post

    -$5 articles only take a few minutes to create. Most writers can type 60 words per minute, so after 9 minutes, you should already have a 560 word article!
    Maybe a bit OT, but am I the only one in this thread that is surprised by this so-called 'fact'?

    Someone who types for a living does so at only 60wpm? Thats just not possible.

    Are these people typing on an Iphone? One handed maybe?
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