I have a great WSO... and now what?

56 replies
Hi guys,
I have a created a great WSO and would like to sell it here. I dont know whwre to start though. I'm new to this forum and would be grateful of anyone could help me.
Do I need to join the War Room, before I submit it? Or how it works?

Thank you
Chris
#great #wso
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    You need to join the War Room first. Then you can submit it to the WSO forum and wait for it to be approved.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by chris1985 View Post

    I dont know whwre to start though. I'm new to this forum
    A good start is to not be new to this forum.

    WSOs sell like they do because we are a community. When Justin Wheeler puts out something about Facebook fan pages, I know from his posts here that he's a complete Facebook fan page badass and has probably delivered massive value at a shockingly low price.

    When "chris1985" puts out something about whatever the hell, I know from his posts here that he can't spell and didn't read the stickies. As you might guess, I am significantly less disposed to buy whatever he is selling.

    This is not an insurmountable problem. Hang around. Get to know us. Make some posts, so we can get to know you. Every single one of us started out new to the forum; we know what it's like. But check us out before you go diving after our wallets, okay?
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      You don't create WSOs. You create products, which you could use a WSO as promotion for that product.

      That's become a bit of a pet peeve of mine. Everyone and their brother wants to make a killing "making WSOs". We need to go back to creating valuable PRODUCTS instead.

      /soapbox
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

        Everyone and their brother wants to make a killing "making WSOs". We need to go back to creating valuable PRODUCTS instead.
        A lot of what sells hundreds or thousands of copies as a WSO would not sell more than a couple dozen copies anywhere else. It would be bad business to pretend otherwise.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          A lot of what sells hundreds or thousands of copies as a WSO would not sell more than a couple dozen copies anywhere else. It would be bad business to pretend otherwise.
          And you don't find anything wrong with that?
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          • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            A lot of what sells hundreds or thousands of copies as a WSO would not sell more than a couple dozen copies anywhere else. It would be bad business to pretend otherwise.
            Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

            And you don't find anything wrong with that?
            But anywhere else, that 'couple dozen copies' could sell at a much higher price, effectively earning the same revenue, with less sales... and a list of buyers who pay more than $7.00 - $10.00???

            -Dani

            P.S. And you don't need a 2nd product to actually profit from, because you gave 100% commissions to affiliates to acquire their list of $7-$10 buyers?
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          • Profile picture of the author Suthan M
            Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

            And you don't find anything wrong with that?

            I do. I am getting sick of a lot of folks who's only game plan is to create wso and make money.
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

            And you don't find anything wrong with that?
            No, I don't find anything at all wrong with the idea that some products are more interesting to niche markets than to the general public, and will sell better in specific outlets that the niche trusts than they would in other more generic areas.

            Redken hair care products, for example, are sold only in salons and target specific issues that not all people have. Should they be shipped to grocery stores and set out on shelves to gather dust? Or is it smart business to have them only in the places where the people who buy them are?
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            • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              No, I don't find anything at all wrong with the idea that some products are more interesting to niche markets than to the general public, and will sell better in specific outlets that the niche trusts than they would in other more generic areas.

              Redken hair care products, for example, are sold only in salons and target specific issues that not all people have. Should they be shipped to grocery stores and set out on shelves to gather dust? Or is it smart business to have them only in the places where the people who buy them are?
              This isn't a niche market. It's a forum for internet marketers, which is a vehicle for marketing your business, not a business in and of itself. Therefore, products that would work for marketing your business should have a much wider appeal than just this one forum.

              I'm not saying that there aren't a few products aimed squarely at Warrior Forum members specifically, but the majority of products should work for any niche that a person is building a business in.

              If the only market for your product is to be found here, then you have a very shaky business model, don't you think?

              Either way, my comment was targeted to those whose only thought is to get a WSO up and rake in the cash. They aren't looking to become part of the community. They come in here with the promise of quick cash and try to bleed off as much money as they can.

              That's why we're seeing people join and post a WSO before they even bother to introduce themselves. There's a guy who joined YESTERDAY and now has 2 WSOs posted - one of which has already had to be reported to the mods.

              The OP here in this thread joined TODAY and he has already created "a great WSO"? There's just something not right about this picture.
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              • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

                This isn't a niche market. It's a forum for internet marketers
                ...no different from the forums full of model railroaders, or yoga enthusiasts, or pickup artists where we go sell our stuff.

                And those people, too, get pissy and defensive about "we are not here for you to sell your crap, put your stuff up somewhere else."

                Because they don't seem to grasp that if you put up a website selling stuff for model railroaders, now you have to make model railroaders come to the site. Whereas if you just go where the model railroaders are, you'll get higher conversion and better social proof.

                So if you have a product for internet marketers, go where the internet marketers are. Seems obvious.

                Either way, my comment was targeted to those whose only thought is to get a WSO up and rake in the cash. They aren't looking to become part of the community.
                Aaaaaaand that would be why I told the OP to become part of the community or his WSO won't perform very well.

                That's why we're seeing people join and post a WSO before they even bother to introduce themselves.
                Now, chris1985, notice that the complaint here isn't that people join and post a WSO that is not good.

                It doesn't matter how good your product is. If you are not part of the community, your WSO will face significant resistance.

                It still has to be a good product, or word will get out and you will be a dork and not make any money. But even if you do have a good product, you're not going to get a great response from the forum unless you've established a presence here so people know who you are and what you stand for.
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                "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                  I'm going to add another interesting little tidbit to look out for.

                  If someone offers to advise you on your WSO, be sure to look at how many WSO's they have successfully run themselves.

                  (she runs quick out of the thread)
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                  • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
                    Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                    I'm going to add another interesting little tidbit to look out for.

                    If someone offers to advise you on your WSO, be sure to look at how many WSO's they have successfully run themselves.

                    (she runs quick out of the thread)
                    I have to add to this... "No matter how many successful WSO's someone has, do not let them tell you how to price or position your product - if they haven't even looked at it."

                    -Dani
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                    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                      Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

                      I have to add to this... "No matter how many successful WSO's someone has, do not let them tell you how to price or position your product - if they haven't even looked at it."
                      It is worth noting that customers buy based on price and positioning... without even looking at the product.

                      This suggests that price and positioning have a whole hell of a lot more to do with knowing the customer than with seeing the product.

                      Rob Howard can help you with this problem. He's got the right idea. Look up his recent threads.
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                      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                      • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
                        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                        It is worth noting that customers buy based on price and positioning... without even looking at the product.

                        This suggests that price and positioning have a whole hell of a lot more to do with knowing the customer than with seeing the product.

                        Rob Howard can help you with this problem. He's got the right idea. Look up his recent threads.
                        Not all products are meant for all customers.

                        What I am referring to here is the person who thinks that because they've run 'successful wso's' with one type of product, and one strategy, they are now 'experts' offering to help you.

                        Only, your product is a different type of product, and requires a different strategy... but this person doesn't have the expertise to tell the difference, he just thinks his way is the 'be all end all' way for everything.

                        The fact is, that the right customer pays the right price for the right product.

                        Anyone who doesn't comprehend that and thinks that the marketplace is made up of just one customer/buyer is no expert.

                        If someone tries to tell you how to price and position a product they haven't looked at, they are NOT experts on pricing or positioning.

                        A lot of 'instant authorities' are born from 'having made some money' applying a specific strategy to a specific product/model.

                        All they've done is mastered a strategy of getting 2+2 to =4. That doesn't make them qualified to teach mathematics.

                        -Dani
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                    • Profile picture of the author iSoftware
                      Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

                      I have to add to this... "No matter how many successful WSO's someone has, do not let them tell you how to price or position your product - if they haven't even looked at it."

                      -Dani

                      You're a 100% Dani. If someone hasn't looked at your product OR asked you "who's your ideal customer" - they have no business making suggestions about what you mentioned - esp. if they want to give valuable feedback.

                      That's like if someone asks me "what do you think of this sales copy" - I don't base it on how I personally feel - IF I KNOW I'M NOT IN THEIR TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC.

                      My first question back would always be "who's your target demographic".


                      People should realize in the past several years, there's been a massive transfer of wealth - towards people who shop based on value first, price second and your positioning is everything...
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      • Profile picture of the author sam12six
        Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

        You don't create WSOs. You create products, which you could use a WSO as promotion for that product.

        That's become a bit of a pet peeve of mine. Everyone and their brother wants to make a killing "making WSOs". We need to go back to creating valuable PRODUCTS instead.

        /soapbox
        I agree completely.

        When I first joined this forum, the WSO section was 98% full of products people were marketing elsewhere and chose to offer warriors a discount. Even the 2% that were produced with a WSO in mind were the result of people in the forum repeatedly asking for the information.

        These days, the percentages are reversed. The vast majority seem to be designed just to make money from the WSO. I can't count the number of threads on other marketing forums where someone asked how to get started and the answer was basically, "Slap some crap together and run it as a WSO on the warrior forum. Those idiots'll buy anything."

        I know there's no turning back the clock, but I'd love to see a return to the days when WSOs were either real discounts on real products or real answers to real problems. Of course, back in the day, people only answered questions when they knew what they were talking about, instead of just saying something for signature exposure.
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        • Profile picture of the author WillR
          Originally Posted by sam12six View Post

          I'd love to see a return to the days when WSOs were either real discounts on real products
          It would take people all of 10 minutes to throw up a quick sales page on their domain and list the product there with a higher price - therefor a rule like this would stop nothing.

          The reason why the WSO section is how it is today is because of the affiliate program created by Warrior Plus. It has led to a huge increase in the amount of new traffic who passes through the forum and see it as an opportunity to make some 'easy' money.
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          • Profile picture of the author sam12six
            Originally Posted by WillR View Post

            It would take people all of 10 minutes to throw up a quick sales page on their domain and list the product there with a higher price - therefor a rule like this would stop nothing.

            The reason why the WSO section is how it is today is because of the affiliate program created by Warrior Plus. It has led to a huge increase in the amount of new traffic who passes through the forum and see it as an opportunity to make some 'easy' money.
            It's not that I don't understand why things have changed, and it's not that I was suggesting any change in how things are.

            It was more an expression of how I miss the "old" WF:

            I miss how people would rake your ass over the coals if you asked how to get started while your signature promised to show people how to make a thousand bucks a minute.

            I miss how people used to post only to ask questions, exchange ideas, and offer help. Obviously, these things still go on, you just have to weed through a lot of borderline signature spam to find pithy discussion.

            I certainly can't blame allen for the changes. Like the rest of us, he wants to make money (and there's no doubt he makes a helluva lot more with the way things are now).

            I guess I'm just nostalgic for the days when I was a newbie and any time I wanted to learn something new, the WF was my first stop. As I said, I understand that you can't turn back time and I'm not suggesting we try. I just remember when the WF was a place that felt like everyone was here to help each other become better marketers. Now, it feels like a place where everyone (not EVERYONE of course) is here to sell things to each other.
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      • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
        Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

        You don't create WSOs. You create products, which you could use a WSO as promotion for that product.

        That's become a bit of a pet peeve of mine. Everyone and their brother wants to make a killing "making WSOs". We need to go back to creating valuable PRODUCTS instead.

        /soapbox
        I agree. You don't create a WSO, you fill a need. My soapbox as it were is that I don't care for all the WSO's where people have never made more than $10 with the system they are selling that you should be able to make thousands with.
        And I'm not a fan of all the fake screen shots.

        If you have a product that fills an IMer's needs and provides real value then please have at it. But just because you heard offline marketing is hot right now doesn't give you the authority to make a product about something you've never done in your entire life.

        And if you do sell a product here;
        1. Make sure who ever you sell it to gets more than you do out of the deal for selling it to them. (create REAL value!!!!!)

        2. Stand behind your product 100% and offer real support.

        3. Get at least 100 posts if not 200 or more before you even think about it. You could have the greatest product in the world and with 2 posts you would get a lot of eyebrows raising.

        4. If your product is really good (don't offer it if it's not) go get 20 top warriors and give them a review copy. Even thought people may question you for being so new, they know these people and respect what they say. Being well respected here will get you a lot farther than any sales copy you could ever dream up in your wildest imaginations.

        That's my two and a half cents and I'm stickin to it.
        Patrick
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

        You don't create WSOs. You create products, which you could use a WSO as promotion for that product.

        That's become a bit of a pet peeve of mine. Everyone and their brother wants to make a killing "making WSOs". We need to go back to creating valuable PRODUCTS instead.

        /soapbox
        THANK YOU!
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        nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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    Originally Posted by chris1985 View Post

    Hi guys,
    I dont know whwre to start though.
    Thank you
    Chris
    Quite true what the others have said about participating in the forum and letting people get to know you. You might find that submitting a WSO with less than 10 posts here won't give you the ROI you're looking for.

    Many people will not buy from you unless they have a certain degree of trust in you and that's not going to happen until we know you better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
    Good gravy, there are sticky's in the WSO section of the forum explaining what to do.

    Must be too busy seeing green to bother reading the rules. :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Howard_Aulsbrook
    Since you are new, let me point you in the right direction.

    First, go read these two threads:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ing-forum.html

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...bers-read.html

    Once you have read and understand the information, then do as Caliban suggested and start interacting with members, ask questions, provide advice and general get to know people and let them get to know you.

    Listen to Caliban, Suzanne, Tina and the other senior members of this forum as they have provided you with great advice. There are too many people that try to join up and post a fly-by WSO to make a quick buck and put one over on other new and naive members of the forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Newman
    Chris,

    In a nutshell, do in-depth research, first. I think it's the most vital step when you're considering WSOs (and I believe that's applicable to anything worthwhile in life). No finance, without knowledge. All the best.
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  • Profile picture of the author louie6925
    Whilst I agree with all of the above, if you have a report you honestly receive is true value to the community then consider joining the war room, offer your report for free for war room members, and gain some respect before posting as a WSO. If you offer true value, you will get a reputation! BUT if you don't offer any value you will get a very negative reputation which is damaging for any future ventures you may have! Don't rush in, and remember, this is a community not a market! Treat it well and you will get so much back in return!
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  • Profile picture of the author Vitaliy K
    I´d recommend buying some WSOs on how to start a WSO :-))

    I am sure it helps you to learn how to promote your WSO, find affilites etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author triojobss
    Banned
    I am thinking about promoting my product with a WSO, not sure if I would make a return on my money though, this is why I am hesitant!
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi all,

      With respect, I think some of you need a reality check.

      I'll try and give my version of it to you and I'm happy to take the flak for it for telling you the uncomfortable truth.

      We've all seen these new members asking the same question as the OP.

      Anyone who is paying attention will have also worked out that many of these new members who are arriving here, who have often never heard of this place before are finding out about the forum for the first time via the massively extended reach provided by the WSO forum, the affiliate systems linked into it and the mailing lists that feed into that.

      These mailing lists draw their incoming subscribers from far afield. These tentacles reach out and funnel into here.

      The consequence of this is that the 'community' that people mention (which mainly resides in this discussion forum) has and will continue to fundamentally change and become fragmented.

      At times, this place resembles a WSO buyer/seller support forum.

      For anyone with an emotional attachment to 'the way it used to be', this is difficult - very difficult.

      But it cannot be stopped. From my perspective, it looks increasingly futile to halt newcomers in their tracks who have come here via the method I describe above and bought WSOs and thought to themselves, 'Hey! That's a good idea!' - and to try and tell them what CD said above (not ignoring the fact that CD had the best of intentions - community spirit etc) -

      A good start is to not be new to this forum.

      WSOs sell like they do because we are a community. When Justin Wheeler puts out something about Facebook fan pages, I know from his posts here that he's a complete Facebook fan page badass and has probably delivered massive value at a shockingly low price.

      When "chris1985" puts out something about whatever the hell, I know from his posts here that he can't spell and didn't read the stickies. As you might guess, I am significantly less disposed to buy whatever he is selling.

      This is not an insurmountable problem. Hang around. Get to know us. Make some posts, so we can get to know you. Every single one of us started out new to the forum; we know what it's like. But check us out before you go diving after our wallets, okay?
      These newcomers are aware that they are newcomers. They are probably also aware (if they're smart) that there are many more newcomers - even more than there are oldcomers.

      Why are people thinking that the members of the community are 'the market'? Sure you buy some WSOs. But so do all the other thousands of other members.

      Who would you rather sell to - newcomers, or grizzled, seasoned old vets who know the difference between a pile of crap and a golden nugget?

      So who do the newcomers want to sell to? Therefore, why would they want to spend time integrating when there is a thirsty market of newcomers who will buy and believe anything?

      I'm suggesting that you're flogging a dead horse.

      Sure, you're sad that the community is changing. I was, too, at first.

      But what you're not getting and what most of you are too afraid to say is that by fighting it, you are saying -

      'I want Allen to earn a lot less money so that I can have my community back!'

      I've always told the truth here and that's why I don't earn money from this place. I was part of this community and that's why I give a crap about my friends flogging a dead horse.

      But I don't see how you are going to win this one and I think that you should consider my words and consider what it is that you are really fighting against and whether that's what you really want to do.

      You can't fight market forces, especially when those forces are working in the favour of the people who gave us so much to begin with. Times change, so change with them, be smart and make money in the process.

      In case you didn't get it, understand what is happening and capitalise on it instead of fighting it. OK?
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi all,

        For anyone with an emotional attachment to 'the way it used to be', this is difficult - very difficult.

        But it cannot be stopped. From my perspective, it looks increasingly futile to halt newcomers in their tracks who have come here via the method I describe above and bought WSOs and thought to themselves, 'Hey! That's a good idea!' - and to try and tell them what CD said above (not ignoring the fact that CD had the best of intentions - community spirit etc) -

        These newcomers are aware that they are newcomers. They are probably also aware (if they're smart) that there are many more newcomers - even more than there are oldcomers.

        Why are people thinking that the members of the community are 'the market'? Sure you buy some WSOs. But so do all the other thousands of other members.

        Who would you rather sell to - newcomers, or grizzled, seasoned old vets who know the difference between a pile of crap and a golden nugget?

        So who do the newcomers want to sell to? Therefore, why would they want to spend time integrating when there is a thirsty market of newcomers who will buy and believe anything?

        I'm suggesting that you're flogging a dead horse.

        Sure, you're sad that the community is changing. I was, too, at first.

        You can't fight market forces, especially when those forces are working in the favour of the people who gave us so much to begin with. Times change, so change with them, be smart and make money in the process.

        In case you didn't get it, understand what is happening and capitalise on it instead of fighting it. OK?
        Damn you, Roger. You sure know how to ruin a perfectly good peeve with logic.
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      • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        [...]

        For anyone with an emotional attachment to 'the way it used to be', this is difficult - very difficult.
        I have posted something similar in another (now closed) thread, as a response to somebody pointing out the "special" character of the (old) WSO offers :
        I agree with you and I expressed not once similar opinion in different threads... It seems, especially, for old-timers, that was the "image" of the WSO section - and many would like to keep it as it was.

        However, whether we like it or not, the WSO section is not what it used to be. It, simply, became a marketplace for digital products (mainly in the MMO niche) and people from far and wide coming to sell their products - not caring ever about the rest of the forum and the community around it.

        Not only sellers. I have had affiliate requests for my last wso from people whose only "activity" in the forum is to comment on wso threads... never adding anything valuable to this forum. (Yes, I denied their request because I don't know them and don't trust them!)

        As much as I don't like it, we have to learn to live with it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Some really thoughtful responses here.

          Chris - You don't have to be a long time member - what some of us look for in a new member running a WSO is something (posts?) that indicates he might know what he's talking about. Good contributions and WSOs are always welcome - too many leeches recently make skepticism the norm.

          You'd be surprised how many people join here and start asking "how to make some money" in the main forum while running a "make $$$ fast" as a WSO

          By the way - welcome.

          Kay
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          • Profile picture of the author chris1985
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Some really thoughtful responses here.

            Chris - You don't have to be a long time member - what some of us look for in a new member running a WSO is something (posts?) that indicates he might know what he's talking about. Good contributions and WSOs are always welcome - too many leeches recently make skepticism the norm.

            You'd be surprised how many people join here and start asking "how to make some money" in the main forum while running a "make $$$ fast" as a WSO

            By the way - welcome.

            Kay
            haha, yahh I guess it's worth to look at what people write about and what posts they create before buying a WSO from them. Especially those who claim that they know 'how to make $3K in a week, it's simple, cheap and doesn't require any work...'
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            • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
              Good points Roger.

              I've come to the same conclusions the last few months but every now and then I try to fight the changes.

              But you're right, change happens and we need to roll with it. It is what it is. And I would prefer to see old timers coming out and cashing in on the WSO section vs. someone who only sees the WF as a WSO marketplace. Damn it there, I go again. Sorry.
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      • Profile picture of the author chris1985
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi all,

        With respect, I think some of you need a reality check.

        I'll try and give my version of it to you and I'm happy to take the flak for it for telling you the uncomfortable truth.

        We've all seen these new members asking the same question as the OP.

        Anyone who is paying attention will have also worked out that many of these new members who are arriving here, who have often never heard of this place before are finding out about the forum for the first time via the massively extended reach provided by the WSO forum, the affiliate systems linked into it and the mailing lists that feed into that.

        These mailing lists draw their incoming subscribers from far afield. These tentacles reach out and funnel into here.

        The consequence of this is that the 'community' that people mention (which mainly resides in this discussion forum) has and will continue to fundamentally change and become fragmented.

        At times, this place resembles a WSO buyer/seller support forum.

        For anyone with an emotional attachment to 'the way it used to be', this is difficult - very difficult.

        But it cannot be stopped. From my perspective, it looks increasingly futile to halt newcomers in their tracks who have come here via the method I describe above and bought WSOs and thought to themselves, 'Hey! That's a good idea!' - and to try and tell them what CD said above (not ignoring the fact that CD had the best of intentions - community spirit etc) -

        These newcomers are aware that they are newcomers. They are probably also aware (if they're smart) that there are many more newcomers - even more than there are oldcomers.

        Why are people thinking that the members of the community are 'the market'? Sure you buy some WSOs. But so do all the other thousands of other members.

        Who would you rather sell to - newcomers, or grizzled, seasoned old vets who know the difference between a pile of crap and a golden nugget?

        So who do the newcomers want to sell to? Therefore, why would they want to spend time integrating when there is a thirsty market of newcomers who will buy and believe anything?

        I'm suggesting that you're flogging a dead horse.

        Sure, you're sad that the community is changing. I was, too, at first.

        But what you're not getting and what most of you are too afraid to say is that by fighting it, you are saying -

        'I want Allen to earn a lot less money so that I can have my community back!'

        I've always told the truth here and that's why I don't earn money from this place. I was part of this community and that's why I give a crap about my friends flogging a dead horse.

        But I don't see how you are going to win this one and I think that you should consider my words and consider what it is that you are really fighting against and whether that's what you really want to do.

        You can't fight market forces, especially when those forces are working in the favour of the people who gave us so much to begin with. Times change, so change with them, be smart and make money in the process.

        In case you didn't get it, understand what is happening and capitalise on it instead of fighting it. OK?

        Thanks , You put it really well in this short paragraph. Not only in relation to this forum but business changes in general.
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  • Profile picture of the author chris1985
    Hi all, thank you for your posts, especially CDarlock.
    I can see it turned into a little discussion...*Yuppie*
    To clarify, I have a great product, that I want to sell as WSO. I have a really good dayjob too, so I'm not a desperate 'make $1000 per minute online' marketer, neither is my product about erning money at all. It's just a cool tool/tools that help me to save time and moneyetc. Thought I would share it here.
    Thanks again, and I will try to make less mistakes in my posts so people won't think I can't spell ))
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  • Profile picture of the author chris1985
    I guess, first one has to build a reputation on the forum and then sell something.
    Fair enough. What I disagree with is placing all the new WF members in the 'easy money makers' group.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by chris1985 View Post

      I guess, first one has to build a reputation on the forum and then sell something.
      Fair enough. What I disagree with is placing all the new WF members in the 'easy money makers' group.
      Hey Chris,

      Don't take it personally.

      The thing you're coming up against is historical really.

      When the WSO section started there was only around 1 offer every week or so and it was always for something that a member had created elsewhere and was proudly offering a special WF discount to as a thank you to members.

      It's become a flooded marketplace where people now sit around trying to think of things to sell there (and no-where else)

      With the recent addition of the Warrior Plus affiliate program - it's completely changed the entire nature of that section and the way people treat it.

      So when some members see a brand new member join and then run a WSO - they're obviously not doing it as a thank you to their community because they haven't been part of the community, so it comes across as just another person looking to sell stuff to members without the 'special' part of the WSO intention being the focus.

      Don't worry - once people know if you're a good guy and will support your customers and deliver value - the issue goes away.

      Andy
      Signature

      nothing to see here.

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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Chris1985,

      Originally Posted by chris1985 View Post

      I guess, first one has to build a reputation on the forum and then sell something.
      Fair enough. What I disagree with is placing all the new WF members in the 'easy money makers' group.
      With the utmost respect -

      Your first sentence RE - reputation - it's entirely up to you whether you base your decisions on what a handful of people tell you, or what you can see with your own eyes in the WSO forum and via WSO pro stats. Of course a good reputation helps a lot, but it doesn't appear to be a prerequisite.

      Many people are doing well with reputations gained elsewhere and others are finding ways to manufacture a reputation. While others use other types of proof to overcome their lack of reputation.

      Your second sentence - RE - your disagreement - well of course, blanket statements aren't usually accurate so forgive me if it's the one sentence in my previous post that may have fallen into that trap.

      But if we generalise instead, considering that there are always exceptions which actually prove a generalised rule and put it another way - is it a better strategy to target the old timers?

      We are grizzled and we have seen a lot of things in our time, so perhaps we're not the easiest sell? Perhaps we have less needs in that area?
      Signature


      Roger Davis

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  • Profile picture of the author Alminc
    WSOs are no longer what they used to be.

    Not only creating and selling wsos has become a business model for many people
    but even promoting wsos, often for 100% commissions has become a new business
    model.

    There is a clear trend out there to create special sites for promoting wsos only,
    and creating mailing lists with sole purpose of promoting wsos.

    John Delavera, JP Shoeffel, Liz Tomey & Jeff Dedrick, Ken Reno and many others
    have created such 'wso review sites' and are making money from wsos as
    'wso affiliates'.

    I also noticed that even some big guns tried to cash on this new wso craze by
    offering some mediocre 'compilations' (several marketers together running a wso).
    This is really becoming interesting, because some of those experimets totally
    flopped (and rightly so) thanks to healthy comments from more experienced
    warriors. You can use your big name and persuasive copy to sell crap to newbies
    but not to people here who know a thing or two.

    Regardless all these changes and new trends I still like the wso section very much
    and I think it's one of the best places online for finding valuable information
    at bargain prices. But as a buyer one has to sharpen the BS detectors, because
    everyone is promoting almost every wso nowdays.
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    No links :)
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    • Profile picture of the author rrm
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      You'd be surprised how many people join here and start asking "how to make some money" in the main forum while running a "make $$$ fast" as a WSO
      Hard to believe people who do such things don't see the irony - or don't expect being called out on it.

      Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

      Regardless all these changes and new trends I still like the wso section very much
      and I think it's one of the best places online for finding valuable information
      at bargain prices. But as a buyer one has to sharpen the BS detectors, because
      everyone is promoting almost every wso nowdays.
      Nice summary.

      Ron
      Signature

      It's not enough to want it... you have to want it enough.

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  • Profile picture of the author harryhumph
    I would suggest the following...

    1. Add some value in the forum
    2. Help People out
    3. Get a war room membership
    4. Submit your thread
    5. Wait for it to be approved
    6. Get JVs
    7. Make money???
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  • Profile picture of the author royljestr
    Originally Posted by chris1985 View Post

    Hi guys,
    I have a created a great WSO and would like to sell it here. I dont know whwre to start though. I'm new to this forum and would be grateful of anyone could help me.
    Do I need to join the War Room, before I submit it? Or how it works?

    Thank you
    Chris

    If you only have 6 posts no one is probably going to buy from you. You should really have 100 or more IMHO
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Sorrell
    It's got to the point where I now see grown men from various wso cartels actually declare their love for each other and their 'game changing' products on each others' wso threads. Seems to work a charm.

    That's another tip for the top by the way. Join a 'cartel', declare your love for another grown man's wso on his thread and then ask him and his buddies to do the same for you every single week as you climb the greasy wso pole. All the best.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Chris Sorrell View Post

      That's another tip for the top by the way. Join a 'cartel', declare your love for another grown man's wso on his thread and then ask him and his buddies to do the same for you
      Here are some tips for how to be a dork and not make any money.

      First of all, whenever you are jealous of someone, call them gay. That will be a good joke on them.

      Second, whenever anyone is selling something, that person is a liar and a cheat. They lie and cheat ALL THE TIME. Nothing they say is ever the truth, because money is an EVIL GATEWAY DRUG that makes you tell lies, then inevitably leads to hookers and blow and drinking right out of the container. And then you go to HELL and they make you eat BUGS.

      Third, whenever more than two people gather ANYWHERE it is a CONSPIRACY because people are never friends in this world. THEY will tell you that if you don't have any friends it is because you are a pathetic loser and nobody likes you, but they don't have any friends either, plus they are all virgins. And they are gay.

      Finally, it is your JOB to reveal these TRUE FACTS to everyone so they know you are not just a lonely, bitter, jealous twat with no money and no job and no friends. You are a REBEL and NOBODY UNDERSTANDS YOU and the ILLUMINATI are conspiring to KEEP YOU DOWN, man. The Illuminati and the Jews.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        Here are some tips for how to be a dork and not make any money.

        First of all, whenever you are jealous of someone, call them gay. That will be a good joke on them.

        Second, whenever anyone is selling something, that person is a liar and a cheat. They lie and cheat ALL THE TIME. Nothing they say is ever the truth, because money is an EVIL GATEWAY DRUG that makes you tell lies, then inevitably leads to hookers and blow and drinking right out of the container. And then you go to HELL and they make you eat BUGS.

        Third, whenever more than two people gather ANYWHERE it is a CONSPIRACY because people are never friends in this world. THEY will tell you that if you don't have any friends it is because you are a pathetic loser and nobody likes you, but they don't have any friends either, plus they are all virgins. And they are gay.

        Finally, it is your JOB to reveal these TRUE FACTS to everyone so they know you are not just a lonely, bitter, jealous twat with no money and no job and no friends. You are a REBEL and NOBODY UNDERSTANDS YOU and the ILLUMINATI are conspiring to KEEP YOU DOWN, man. The Illuminati and the Jews.
        I never know when those Jews will show up to try and take away my bacon. The *******s.


        Signature

        Simple Mission Statement "Under the Radar and Over the Top!"
        Sean's Guide To The Forum
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Let me see. You joined this month and you have 6 posts to your name?

    All I can do is wish you luck.

    I think you might need it.

    Originally Posted by Chris Sorrell View Post

    It's got to the point where I now see grown men from various wso cartels actually declare their love for each other and their 'game changing' products on each others' wso threads. Seems to work a charm.

    That's another tip for the top by the way. Join a 'cartel', declare your love for another grown man's wso on his thread and then ask him and his buddies to do the same for you every single week as you climb the greasy wso pole. All the best.
    It's fairly easy to spot these people and I have seen a lot of it lately. The problem is not much can be done about it. The other problem is that the newer members of the forum are not going to be as wise to this practice and aren't able to spot it for what it really is.
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  • Profile picture of the author thewizard
    Chris, obviously by now you must have browsed the forum enough to understand a thing or two. People have given great advices here. Just take the time to understand how things work somewhere, and who the people are before selling to them. Everyone is great and helpful here, so, don't be shy to ask questions and learn. Maybe you should submit review copies to some gurus here and ask for testimonials and vouch for you if you don't want to take the time to establish yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    THOU SPEAKETH THE TRUTH...ETH
    Signature
    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
    So, you know, while you're busy looking for the illuminati, and such, make sure you don your white cloak, wrist dagger, and sneak around. Get some stabbin' going on, throw a guy or two off a precarious ledge, and jump from hundreds of feet up and land in a haystack. Eventually, if you take enough peoples money from pickpocketing and finding random boxes full of money around the city you live in, you'll be famous and rich!

    Watch out for Templars.
    Signature

    Simple Mission Statement "Under the Radar and Over the Top!"
    Sean's Guide To The Forum
    Thoughts of a 22 Year Old Marketer

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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi CD & Buildingfutures,

      I read what Chris Sorrell said and I have to say that he's entirely accurate in his observation. I've just been reading through one of those WSO threads which is exactly as he describes.

      The attempts to create hype by the sellers and their shills are totally embarrassing and utterly ridiculous.

      In your posts above, you've given me a different take to the one given previously in this thread regarding your feelings about what's left of the community here, CD.
      Signature


      Roger Davis

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      • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi CD & Buildingfutures,

        I read what Chris Sorrell said and I have to say that he's entirely accurate in his observation. I've just been reading through one of those WSO threads which is exactly as he describes.

        The attempts to create hype by the sellers and their shills are totally embarrassing and utterly ridiculous.

        In your posts above, you've given me a different take to the one given previously in this thread regarding your feelings about what's left of the community here, CD.
        Well, aren't we just perceptive.

        Here's the thing, though. Did you really never think this was going on? I mean seriously, its how a lot of product launches work outside of the Warrior Forum. A bunch of guys get together with their lists, pat each other on the back, and then whore each others products to each others lists so that they can make more money.

        It's been like that since the beginning of marketing, and when I come across a WSO or a sales page where other 'known' individuals are plugging the product, I'm not surprised at all. How much you succeed can sometimes be directly correspondent to who you know.

        CD and I are poking fun at this 'discovery' of WSO 'cartels'. We've both known for a while it was going on, especially with WSO Pro giving JV/Affiliate abilities.

        And just like anywhere else, there's going to be **** products let out by **** people, with horrific sales letters, because they don't know anyone to help them. And they never will.

        -Sean
        Signature

        Simple Mission Statement "Under the Radar and Over the Top!"
        Sean's Guide To The Forum
        Thoughts of a 22 Year Old Marketer

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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        In your posts above, you've given me a different take to the one given previously in this thread regarding your feelings about what's left of the community here, CD.
        Yeah, because God forbid I would think the overwhelming majority of coordinated WSO release groups are actually honest and ethical.

        I must not really care about this community much at all. There's a thread with obvious shills in it, so the entire WSO Forum is obviously a "greasy pole" and we should go around badmouthing it.

        I'm pretty quick to say there's a lot of crap in the WSO Forum. I'm also pretty quick to say there are a lot of good people selling good products. And I have no intention of altering my general policy of saying out loud that if you ignore either of those groups, you are being stupid.
        Signature
        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author Scott Nelson
          What a great thread. I think Chris1985 did a pretty good job of "getting introduced". But who am I to say, I'm a newbie here too.

          Being new to the warrior forum may or may not mean a person is a newbie to marketing or the internet or that the idea or approach the have may rock an old timers world. Seems like some pretty young turks in the past set the world on it's ear. Folks like Jobs, Dell, Zuckerberg were newbies once upon a time.

          I don't post a lot here, not yet anyway. I understand my place among the IM giants, at least for now. I come here to shop and get tools. But I observe and learn more than anything else and this place is VAST and there's new content every few seconds so the idea of catching up with old timers is futile.

          I have been lucky I think in that I encountered some pretty fine people in the IM world BEFORE I came to the forums. These people are very well known here and very well respected from what I can tell. I've gotten good advice and and learned a lot, some are facebook buds now, some on Linkedin.

          So here's my introduction to the forums, I'm googleable page 1 if you through in my middle initial "W" to my forum name (...not the obituary... the IMDB link) or add the word Oracle and I am all over page 1.

          Who knows, maybe someday I'll have something to sell my fellow warriors, maybe not. Until then I'll enjoy the threads and occasional WSO.
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          The kinder, gentler internet warrior.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mary Wilhite
    Originally Posted by chris1985 View Post

    Hi guys,
    I have a created a great WSO and would like to sell it here.
    This is the only place to SELL a WSO, this is The WARRIOR FORUM afterall.

    Like what CD mentioned in the reply to your post, before you go for our wallets, give us a preview of what you can give first.

    You don't approach a potential mate in any gathering and ask them to marry you right at that instant. It doesn't work that way.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Roger,
      The consequence of this is that the 'community' that people mention (which mainly resides in this discussion forum) has and will continue to fundamentally change and become fragmented.
      Yep. It has changed from a forum with a marketplace attached to a platform. And it is being treated like any other platform where marketers think there's a buck to be made. Some will offer value and others will do what they can to game the system.

      As Caliban pointed out so precisely: It's a bad idea to ignore either group.
      For anyone with an emotional attachment to 'the way it used to be', this is difficult - very difficult.
      Very few of us, in relative terms, understand "what it used to be." This place is not the same now as it was 2 years ago, and it was different then than 4 years ago, etc, going back all the way to the beginning. Being attached to a memory is as unwise as forgetting history.

      Neither requires being "sad." There are good and not so good aspects to the changes, but there were good and not so good aspects to what the place was like at every stage of its growth.

      In the "old daze," this was a place to learn the principles of marketing online and to network and build relationships and trade techniques and resources. But you had to go out into the world outside of the forum and deal with people on your own merits.

      Nowadaze, a lot of people are getting their first tastes of success selling within the forum. Some of those people, the smart ones, with quality products and services, are taking those successes and using them as the basis for a real business. The not-so-smart ones are relying on the forum as their whole online income, and they're setting themselves up for problems.

      All of that aside, the community aspect of the place is still an important part of what it means to be a Warrior. Not a member, which anyone can do, but a Warrior.

      sam12six,
      I miss how people would rake your ass over the coals if you asked how to get started while your signature promised to show people how to make a thousand bucks a minute.
      [chuckle] I got an email not too long ago from a guy I gave that treatment to a long time back. According to him, he was mad at first. Then he thought, "Yeah. The sumbeach is right." He started a site selling physical products to people and is grossing well into 7 figures. If you did the same thing now, the whole place would come down on you for "beating up on the newbie."

      We used to be able to debate things in a real way, and we wanted to find problems before we rolled out products or spent time and money putting together something that was going to flop. Now people are more concerned about their fragile egos than about doing something useful and profitable.

      Chris,
      It's got to the point where I now see grown men from various wso cartels actually declare their love for each other and their 'game changing' products on each others' wso threads. Seems to work a charm.
      Yep. That sucks, but it's always been part of any niche market. It's one reason I dropped out of sight in most of the IM field, outside of this forum and my newsletter, 6 or 7 years ago. I could see the "You promote my stuff and I'll promote yours" crap coming, and didn't want anything to do with those sorts of blanket IOUs.


      Paul
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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  • Profile picture of the author Nicola Lane
    As this is the Warrior Forum please allow me to give you a "Warrior" type analogy.

    Imagine for a moment that you are a member of a major Martial Arts club, it is a thriving place teaching many styles, with an active break room - and it has a great feature - a marketplace.

    So imagine a new seller sets up his stall in the market place. Not only is he a new seller - he is also new to the club. His suit is so new it still has that just bought smell. Why would any experienced warrior think that this newbie can teach them anything?

    The thing is, he might be able to! But, that is a very slim "might". Most of the experience warriors will ask their friends about him - and find out that no-one has heard of him. Then they might look at his fight/attendance record - and discover he hasn't got one. Then they will simply walk away - and that is assuming that they even looked at his stall in the first place.

    Of course, there are plenty of newbies in the marketplace - and plenty of people who haven't discovered the richness of the club beyond the marketplace. But if our new seller is hoping to build a sustainable business, and make strategic friends and partnerships then joining the club and heading straight for the marketplace seems like a short sighted idea.

    A better idea would be to explore the place, read the rules and guidelines (which are made easy to find!) get to know a few people, offer some helpful advice.

    I hope you can see where I am going with this.

    Good Luck!
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