Why Are There So Few Info Products On Stopping Foreclosure?

95 replies
I have a family member going through foreclosure (not me) and it gave me the idea of possibly creating an info product on how to stop foreclosure or avoiding it altogether.

I used to be a real estate agent, and so I do have the knowledge and resources to create the product. The thing is though, there's a lot of competition and I only found a couple of actual info products on the subject. Although I know that really doesn't matter, I'm just curious as to why more people aren't doing the research on this subject and trying to sell the information.

The information is easy to obtain yes, but you have to wade through a lot of stuff to get it. But with the U.S. housing market so in the tank, and so many people losing their homes, this seems to have become a very desperate niche. So is anyone here working in that market? Just curious. Thanks!
#foreclosure #info #products #stopping
  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    I'm not working in that niche - yet. But it would seem to me to be a viable niche to be in.

    Give it a go - since you have experience and perspective, I think a product like this could be really helpful for a lot of people.

    Rob
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4746797].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      I'm not working in that niche - yet. But it would seem to me to be a viable niche to be in.

      Give it a go - since you have experience and perspective, I think a product like this could be really helpful for a lot of people.

      Rob
      Yeah that's what I was thinking too...Thanks for your input Rob!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4746859].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
        Mainly because the individual state laws and foreclosure processes.

        In some states the process is slow and could take a minimum of 6 months (although with the backlog there are houses that have been in the foreclosure process for years) while in other states, a bank could foreclose in as little as 21 days.

        Then there are even different redemption periods in different states. Meaning after the foreclosure has happened, the person who was foreclosed on has a certain amount of time in which to cure the loan and take back possession.

        To start with...

        -Dani
        Signature
        The Recon Report
        Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4746872].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Patrick Pretty
    Any IMer who enters this niche would be well-advised to have a highly competent attorney on retainer and be prepared to pay for plenty of vetting before any product is released. Possible areas of concern are practicing law without a license, charging an illegal, up-front fee and impersonating a government agency.

    There have been wretched, stunningly egregious abuses in this niche. And it also is known that so-called "sovereign citizens' park in this niche, selling everything from foreclosure-rescue plans to fill-in-the-blank "legal" templates purported to halt foreclosures.

    Some of the cases in this niche are truly bizarre. I wrote about one in which a man claimed that posting a bond consisting of $21 in "silver coinage" at a federal courthouse in Missouri could stop a foreclosure.

    There is a case in Arizona right now in which a "sovereign citizen" in this niche allegedly filed a petition to place the United States in involuntary bankruptcy and caused more than 170 bogus claims to be filed against the United States. The claims allegedly totaled more than $2.5 TRILLION.

    It is something approaching a certainty that players in this niche will gain the enmity of banks and will garner the attention of the Feds. In no small way, this niche is a replacement niche for some of the credit-repair scams of yesteryear.

    Some IMers got nailed last week by the FTC. Among other things, the defendants allegedly used websites that mimicked government websites:

    FTC Asks Court To Halt Defendant from Impersonating Federal Agencies While Steering Consumers to Mortgage, Tax, and Debt Relief Services

    Patrick
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4746877].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author revupcommerce
    I actually own stopforeclosure. net
    If you create a good product I might be interested in promoting it
    I havent found anything good either.
    Because of this I havent really done much work to the site.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4746892].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Frank2
      If it is construed as giving legal advice, you can get in trouble. Attorneys do not like competition and they usually write the laws. As one other person metioned - the laws vary by state.

      I think the only way people can get any real help in foreclosure - is probably from an attorney and they often are not much help.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4747049].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author scrofford
    Thanks for your responses...I don't plan on giving legal advice or any type of advice other than resources people can use or where they can go to stop or avoid foreclosure. There are a lot of different avenues you can go and there are a lot of government resources you can use.

    There's a lot of ways to help people in this market that I see without being an attorney or a government agency. There's also a lot of good information that can be compiled and put into a report that people don't want to take the time to have to sift through and look up when they are in a panic because they are being foreclosed on.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4747167].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author phpguy
      Trying doing it just in the state you live in with an attorney partner. Seems like good times for it or you could do informational and do it for all 50 states just put a disclaimer.

      Blake
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4747220].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        Years ago I had a client who did very well in that niche. However, thinking back to his content, some of his strategies would now be outdated, I believe, in today's real estate market and bank chaos, and he would certainly have to redo his material to have it be perceived as up-to-date.

        It's currently not the sort of topic where you can create something that's really helpful and just keep selling it unchanged.

        Marcia Yudkin
        Signature
        Check out Marcia Yudkin's No-Hype Marketing Academy for courses on copywriting, publicity, infomarketing, marketing plans, naming, and branding - not to mention the popular "Marketing for Introverts" course.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4747638].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Here's another onion for the pot...

          A friend showed me the paperwork for his mortgage modification, and just about every single piece of paper had a warning about 'stop-foreclosure and refi scams'. Except the junk mail from scammers themselves and from shysters trying to drum up leads by claiming to be able to 'negotiate for you'.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4748792].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author timpears
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            A friend showed me the paperwork for his mortgage modification, and just about every single piece of paper had a warning about 'stop-foreclosure and refi scams'. Except the junk mail from scammers themselves and from shysters trying to drum up leads by claiming to be able to 'negotiate for you'.
            Sure, the banks don't want anyone that knows what they are doing to be in on the negotiations so the bank can take advantage of the homeowner. Most homeowners are lost when it comes to talking to the banks. I know there are scammers in the business, but you have to do your research like with most things. Someone that does this a lot will always get a better deal than a homeowner that is unfamiliar with the process.

            You don't go into court and be your own lawyer, so it is not advisable to negotiate with the banks for modification if you are not familiar with the process.
            Signature

            Tim Pears

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749414].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            Here's another onion for the pot...

            A friend showed me the paperwork for his mortgage modification, and just about every single piece of paper had a warning about 'stop-foreclosure and refi scams'. Except the junk mail from scammers themselves and from shysters trying to drum up leads by claiming to be able to 'negotiate for you'.
            Reminds me a magic trick. "Keep your eyes on the coin...." When that warning should also include a disclosure that the bank is nothing but a debt collector and clumped right in there with the scammers and shysters making false claims.

            Yes, and that onion stinks to high heaven. I hope your friend read that paperwork carefully. Most agreements I read have a borrower waiving rights of future notices - which means ol bankster can sell the house without notice and the homeowner realizes their house has been sold when the new owner knocks on the door.

            Peel off one more lawyer, the agreements also state the agreement is not valid until the bank decides to sign it and send it back. For me, that's just a little too one sided and I wouldn't consider signing anything like it.
            Signature
            Learn Website Tips, How to Do Keyword Research, & How to Write Killer Content.
            Stop Wasting Time.
            Start Living Your Dream.
            Click Here NOW to Get Your Hands on
            One of the Most Valuable Ebooks Ever!

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749587].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    Foreclosure is state specific issue. Also it is different if it is secured by a mortgage, or a trust deed. So many variables it would be difficult to write one report on it. Even people that work in this market get confused by things often. And then they change frequently.
    Signature

    Tim Pears

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4747213].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bwh1
      Originally Posted by timpears View Post

      Foreclosure is state specific issue. Also it is different if it is secured by a mortgage, or a trust deed. So many variables it would be difficult to write one report on it. Even people that work in this market get confused by things often. And then they change frequently.
      That would open room for a membership with permanently updated, STATE specific information.

      Or am I wrong here?

      I think that this could be a great niche if you know some about. like OP.

      G.
      Signature

      Affiliates Wanted! Make anywhere from 42,- to $72 in commissions. Simply Recommend the Best QuickBooks Pro Video Course available at Clickbank.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749475].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
        Originally Posted by bwh1 View Post

        That would open room for a membership with permanently updated, STATE specific information.

        Or am I wrong here?

        I think that this could be a great niche if you know some about. like OP.

        G.
        I don't see where a membership model will work since a foreclosure is a one-time event, and not something that homeowners will need habitually.

        Building an authority site, is the best way to go with this niche. Recruit the 'experts' from different states to contribute regularly in exchange for advertising opportunities, and/or possibly revenue share.

        -Dani
        Signature
        The Recon Report
        Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749500].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
          Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

          I don't see where a membership model will work since a foreclosure is a one-time event, and not something that homeowners will need habitually.

          Building an authority site, is the best way to go with this niche. Recruit the 'experts' from different states to contribute regularly in exchange for advertising opportunities, and/or possibly revenue share.

          -Dani
          I had a reply all typed out and after reading your idea I decided to delete mine...LOL...yours is better
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749532].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author bwh1
          Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

          I don't see where a membership model will work since a foreclosure is a one-time event, and not something that homeowners will need habitually.

          Building an authority site, is the best way to go with this niche. Recruit the 'experts' from different states to contribute regularly in exchange for advertising opportunities, and/or possibly revenue share.

          -Dani
          Memberships can have a one time fee, no need to charge recurring. I like them as they make the member feel privileged to get access to a valuable content.

          As a "open for public" site you depend basically on AdSense and affiliate sales to make money.

          But your definitely right, not a perfect situation.

          G.
          Signature

          Affiliates Wanted! Make anywhere from 42,- to $72 in commissions. Simply Recommend the Best QuickBooks Pro Video Course available at Clickbank.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750751].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
            Originally Posted by bwh1 View Post

            Memberships can have a one time fee, no need to charge recurring. I like them as they make the member feel privileged to get access to a valuable content.

            As a "open for public" site you depend basically on AdSense and affiliate sales to make money.

            But your definitely right, not a perfect situation.

            G.
            I hadn't thought of it like that... but there's advertising beyond Adsense, and ppc type ad revenue. And that market will work with you directly and pay top..... damn, I've said too much,

            LOUD BANG!
            Signature
            The Recon Report
            Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750774].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
      Originally Posted by timpears View Post

      Foreclosure is state specific issue. Also it is different if it is secured by a mortgage, or a trust deed. So many variables it would be difficult to write one report on it. Even people that work in this market get confused by things often. And then they change frequently.
      Very true. The are many variables. The law doesn't change (unless you are monitoring legislation being introduced that would revise a particular statute), but the homeowners paperwork is an important aspect of the foreclosure process and a time consuming endeavor to read and decipher.
      Signature
      Learn Website Tips, How to Do Keyword Research, & How to Write Killer Content.
      Stop Wasting Time.
      Start Living Your Dream.
      Click Here NOW to Get Your Hands on
      One of the Most Valuable Ebooks Ever!

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749621].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
    I've been aware of this niche for way too long, and also in contact with many a family facing foreclosure. There is no crystal ball, no magic process that will stop a foreclosure. It is, as others have said, dependent on state law, the banks, your tenacity, the level of stress you can endure, and just plain luck.

    This week Suze Orman was interviewed and she suggested that everyone who is underwater on their mortgage by at least 20% just walk away.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4748840].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
      Originally Posted by doingwrite View Post

      This week Suze Orman was interviewed and she suggested that everyone who is underwater on their mortgage by at least 20% just walk away.
      I understand that people are in dire circumstances and the real estate market is in an extreme state, but...

      I think this is truly HORRIBLE advice to give on a general/blanket basis. I'm not a Pollyanna and have recently been going through some difficult financial circumstances myself... But I think part of what got our economy into this mess in the first place is people not honoring their obligations in the first place.

      I'm sure there's a time and place for bankruptcy/walking away from your mortgage. But those should be the EXCEPTIONS. Unfortunately, they're becoming the rule.

      Unfortunately, there's no free lunch. Someone ALWAYS pays. If the homeowner doesn't pay, then the lender does. He's got expenses associated with repossessing the house and putting it back up for sale. Which drives up his costs, which drive up EVERYBODY'S costs.

      Not to mention the price you pay in bad credit and all that that entails...

      Grrrr!

      Michelle
      Signature
      "You can't market here. This is a marketing discussion forum!"
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749615].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
        Hi Michelle.

        I see you are in one of the hardest hit areas in the US.

        So tell me what would you do in this situation.

        Your home has a $400,000 mortgage. Several in your area have recently sold for $200,000 (based on my research, many homes in Florida, Nevada and Arizona are underwater by 50%+. Do you continue to pay on an asset that has declined in value by over 50%?

        Yes, many people bought more than they could afford.
        Yes, many people used their homes as ATMs and refi'd, buying the boat, remodeling, whatever.

        If anyone was honoring an obligation, it damn well should have been the government who is responsible for the regulation of the financial industry.

        No, no one held a gun to the borrowers head forcing them to sign those loan documents.

        Getting to the root of the problem - how were those homeowners able to get loans in the first place? Predatory loans, that's how.

        Absolutely, there is no free lunch. The lender will not be the ones who absorb the loss of the housing market, we, the US taxpayers will.

        Not only were loans guaranteed by the government, they were insured against loss (AIG) and the banks set up this scheme not just knowing the loans would fail, but betting they would.
        Signature
        Learn Website Tips, How to Do Keyword Research, & How to Write Killer Content.
        Stop Wasting Time.
        Start Living Your Dream.
        Click Here NOW to Get Your Hands on
        One of the Most Valuable Ebooks Ever!

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749662].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
          To keep this on topic of IM, and as it relates to the OP's, OP... here are some of the valid points to be made in a product, or on an authority site dealing with this niche...

          1.) Investors are far more successful than real estate agents are in getting short sales approved.

          2.) Deficiency Judgment. First, lenders have rarely pursued deficiency judgements. They simply aren't set up for it and it's too cost prohibitive to pursue it, especially after the cost of the pursuit of the foreclosure itself. Second, the lenders other option is to 1099 the homeowner for the deficiency, as forgiveness of a debt is a taxable event. Again, most lenders won't do this either, due to the fact that their accounting departments aren't set up to do this. Third, and finally, deficiency is the difference between what the lender was owed, and what they were able to liquidate the asset for after they took back possession. When the bank takes the asset to 'the courthouse auction steps' for liquidation, very often the bank buys it at the auction for as little as $100, provided no other investors outbid the bank (which will almost always bid up to what they were 'owed')... so if the homeowner owed $100K, they're still deficient by $99,900. Where if they sold it short at say $50K, they would only be deficient for $50,000.

          3.) Filing Bankruptcy does NOT 'STOP' foreclosure. It only slows the process down.

          And again, to start with....


          -Dani
          Signature
          The Recon Report
          Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749792].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
          Hi Lori,

          I agree with your points. You're right: maybe those people ARE better off just walking away. Those are difficult circumstances and there's no easy answer.

          The idea of defaulting on responsibility en masse grates on my nerves though.

          It's difficult to know what to do. Do I detect a bit of "the banks created this situation, so they're largely to blame and I don't feel sorry for them" point of view? If so, I understand.

          Michelle
          Signature
          "You can't market here. This is a marketing discussion forum!"
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749800].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    On the other side of the coin is the homeowner. Seriously - if you were at risk of losing your home would you be on the net buying some ebook by god-knows-who or would you be at an attorney's office? Who would you turn to if it was your home.

    I'm not saying that you don't know anything or aren't smart - but realistically -- would you be looking for an attorney or a marketer if it was your home?
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4748900].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      On the other side of the coin is the homeowner. Seriously - if you were at risk of losing your home would you be on the net buying some ebook by god-knows-who or would you be at an attorney's office? Who would you turn to if it was your home.

      I'm not saying that you don't know anything or aren't smart - but realistically -- would you be looking for an attorney or a marketer if it was your home?
      HeySal,...

      People who can't make their mortgage payment usually don't have $1,500-$4,000 for retainer fees for an attorney who 'at best,' MIGHT find some sort of 'breach' of contract on the lenders part for which the homeowner could counter sue (with a lot more money than just the retainer fee to be paid to the lawyer to pursue.)

      -Dani
      Signature
      The Recon Report
      Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4748931].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      There are many products about "how to stop foreclosure" - but as others have said this isn't a process where you can buy a book and have a solution.

      State laws vary widely - lenders may or may not pursue fast foreclosure and many of the delaying tactics and remedies in books simply aren't realistic or possible.

      Right now in many states lenders are putting of the final foreclosure action because it doesn't suit them to own more empty houses. In the spring - there may be a spike as they rush to catch up and move faster.

      A more useful book would point out the scams and the reliance people are putting into these government "saves". Many of the loans modified went into full foreclosure the moment the trial modification expired - even though the homeowner followed everything to the letter and made all payments required. Some financial experts are warning about this - but the public is largely unaware of the facts.

      It's a minefield for homeowners in default - but you can't keep someone from facing a foreclosure nor is there a brilliant way to stop the process.

      I had a free ebook on stopping foreclosure a couple years ago and there was a demand for the info. I took the book down because the information, though correct, was only the basic of how to try to work with your lenders, etc - and those things aren't working today. I didn't want to give away something that would give false hope.
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
      what it is instead of what you think it should be.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4748950].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I think there is a better market in the area of life after foreclosure or in how to survive foreclosure and keep as much of your "stuff" as you can.

        Experts like Stephen Snyder and Dave Ramsey offer better foreclosure advice as they hit the subject from a realistic viewpoint. They offer advice in booklets and reports about how to get through a foreclosure and how to plan for the future - and when to give up and hand the property over and move on.

        So far, that topic isn't filled with scams. So far....
        Signature
        Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
        ***
        One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
        what it is instead of what you think it should be.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749055].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
          Another possibility, prevention is usually a hard sale vs. relieving pain and problems.

          You can argue stopping a foreclosure will definitely avoid pain and problems but humans aren't wired to think about stopping problems. Once a problem is on top of us then we seek out help.

          That's why you'll see more product on how to deal with the after effects of foreclosure vs how to stop it.

          I would think an info product on "how to fix your credit score after foreclosure", "how to ensure your rental application won't be turned down after foreclosure", "how to get a credit card after a foreclosure", "how to get a car loan after foreclosure", etc. ... those types of info products would probably do well vs. how to stop a foreclosure.

          I haven't looked at the niche though, just my opinion. Info marketing is info marketing just the niche changes.

          I do agree with the other posters, that legal implications are also a consideration, I wouldn't enter the pill/supplement niche if you paid me.
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749174].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author scrofford
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          I think there is a better market in the area of life after foreclosure or in how to survive foreclosure and keep as much of your "stuff" as you can.

          Experts like Stephen Snyder and Dave Ramsey offer better foreclosure advice as they hit the subject from a realistic viewpoint. They offer advice in booklets and reports about how to get through a foreclosure and how to plan for the future - and when to give up and hand the property over and move on.

          So far, that topic isn't filled with scams. So far....
          That Kay is some of the best advice I've seen here yet! Thanks for sharing that! As a side note, I understand that state laws are different etc. But a lot of people don't even understand the process of foreclosure and when it hits them, they DO go to the internet looking for information. General information pointing people in the right direction is a good thing.

          Showing people how to avoid foreclosure and what they can do to stay away from it is also a good thing. Yeah I know...paying up the mortgage solves the problems, but if they can't, there are resources and helps people can get through the govt. and private institutions. (I don't plan on offering those services myself or telling anyone I can solve that problem.)

          I just think that there ARE ways to help people (not scam them) and also think that your idea about life after foreclosure is a good area too.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749444].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Winlin
      To the OP - There are a myriad of reasons the information may not be readily available. The one of legality seems to be the most obvious - To offer an opinion on the subjects involved with a foreclosure you no doubt would need to be licensed in one if not many disciplines and as mentioned each state has it's own code. - That said ; you can always tout yourself as a "writer" citing experts in the field.

      Winlin-
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4748974].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
    The only "products" I am aware of to stop foreclosures are modification companies who claim they can help a homeowner get a modification. 99% of these companies are scam artists who offer a certain price to stop foreclosure or modify the loan for a fee.

    Most mod companies (not all, as there are few, albeit very few, legitimate mod businesses) don't stand a chance in hell to get a loan modified nor stop a foreclosure.

    The majority of these mod companies are scum of the earth. They prey on homeowners who are desperate, cannot afford to pay their mortgage, food, meds, etc., and offer them a well rehearsed sales pitch promising to do something they cannot do. Hmm, that sounds familiar.

    I started beingmiddleclass.org approximately two years ago. I too am a licensed Realtor. And I have been helping people fight foreclosure and get loan modifications for two years.

    As others have said, and as you know scrofford, foreclosure laws vary by State and many issues come into play when getting a modification or a foreclosure stopped.

    The government's Making Home Affordable Program/HAMP is a failure. It is nothing more than a prop for the banks. It actually rewards banks with a financial incentive to start a homeowner on a "trial program". The banks have no intention of modify the loans, yet are more than happy to accept this government handout. After the banks string the homeowner along for as long as the homeowner continues to send in a reduced payment, the banks drop the hammer on the homeowner with an apology that they cannot help the homeowner.

    MHA/HAMP is an absolute nightmare.

    When you send your monthly mortgage payment to a bank, they are collecting that debt for investors. In the majority of cases, the bank does not own your loan. The likelihood that your loan was securitized aka sliced and diced and sold on Wall Street is about 80%+.

    This is an extremely complex issue not only due to securitization, but due to the fact that the bankster is bound by a pooling and servicing agreement with their investors, and are only allowed to remove a certain percentage of loans from a pool, modify it, and put it back into the pool.

    The only way I have been able to convince a banks to modify a loan is by proving that the chain of title has been broken and/or there are serious problems with the documentation recorded at local levels, i.e. fraudulent documents. Some of you may have heard of robo signing. That's a sugar coated term for filing fraudulent documents in courts and land records throughout the US.

    The other way I have been successful in getting loan mods and stopping foreclosure is by threatening the banks with media exposure. I have drafted many press releases I sent to the banks with a threat to release them should they continue to pursue foreclosure.

    When I hear about loan modification companies, services, etc. that claim they can help homeowners, I research them and when I find their claims to be fraudulent, I report them to the Attorney General.

    Sorry, probably a little more information than you wanted to read, but it is an issue - not a "niche" in my opinion that is very near and dear to me.

    If you want, have your friend contact me or point him/her to my forum. We help people, free.
    Signature
    Learn Website Tips, How to Do Keyword Research, & How to Write Killer Content.
    Stop Wasting Time.
    Start Living Your Dream.
    Click Here NOW to Get Your Hands on
    One of the Most Valuable Ebooks Ever!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749075].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
      Hi Lori,
      I'd love to check out your forum. Is it strictly about loan modifications since the Bailout?

      That aside, there are other ways to stop a foreclosure than just a loan modification, the most obvious of which is 'curing the default.' Others include selling the house, and short selling if necessary. If you act early enough in the process, you can cure and rent to at least stop the foreclosure and damaged credit. Foreclosure is a ticking time bomb, the earlier you identify it, and start to diffuse it, the more likely you are to stop the explosion.

      Long before the bailout, there were loan modifications and forebarance agreements. And even then, something like 60% of the agreements went back into default again within 4 months.

      You can still get loan modifications and forebarance agreements, and short sales, depending on the case you can 'build a case' for it...(new job, replenished income, crime rate statistics, condition of property, and the condition of the lender itself at the time, as they're much more likely to accept a low-ball short sale offer at the end of a fiscal quarter or fiscal year)

      Usually it's the 'We Buy Houses' and 'Stop Foreclosure' investors who construct and actually succeed with these negotiations and deals, and they're usually lumped in with the 'bad guys' of 'loan mod companies' which is often because the first thing the homeowner wants is to 'save their house', and having heard of the 'loan modification' program from the Bailout, wont discuss any other option until that option is completely killed.

      Often times, the homeowner (especially in the current economy) can't recover from something like a loss of income, which caused the default in the first place, to actually be a good candidate for a loan modification, and despite that selling makes the most sense, are holding on to a emotional attachment to 'home' and 'home ownership,' so they force the issue of the loan modification before sale. The river of "De Nile" runs deep.

      -Dani
      Signature
      The Recon Report
      Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749309].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
        Hi Danielle.

        I'd love to check out your forum. Is it strictly about loan modifications since the Bailout?
        It is a news, information site where I post news, case law, Treasury Directives and Fannie Mae guidelines, information about securitizing, how to find your loan on the SEC website, and helping others make an educated decision on how to proceed.

        That aside, there are other ways to stop a foreclosure than just a loan modification, the most obvious of which is 'curing the default.' Others include selling the house, and short selling if necessary. If you act early enough in the process, you can cure and rent to at least stop the foreclosure and damaged credit. Foreclosure is a ticking time bomb, the earlier you identify it, and start to diffuse it, the more likely you are to stop the explosion.
        True, there are other ways to stop foreclosure. Personally, I would never consider a short sale. The bank will string you along (as a seller and a buyer) and they are completely inundated with short sale cases. There is also the disadvantage to the homeowner that the important language of deficiency, etc. will not be addressed.

        I have only read about a few (out of tens of thousands) who have the ability to cure the default.

        I am completely amazed at the homeowners who contact me and tell me they don't open the mail they get from the banks. Huge mistake. And you're right, that mail is a ticking time bomb and not opening the mail, ignoring the issue is not going to resolve it, but rather make it a lot worse.

        Long before the bailout, there were loan modifications and forebarance agreements. And even then, something like 60% of the agreements went back into default again within 4 months.
        True. A lot of people re-default after modifications. Forbearance is a wolf in disguise. Anytime you forbear mortgage payments, you have defaulted and forbearance agreement or not, the bank can continue with foreclosure proceedings. I would never even consider a forbearance agreement because that is all it does, forbear payments at which time you are going to have to cure the arrearages or face foreclosure.

        I do not sugar coat any of my opinions and if a homeowner cannot afford the payment after the modified payment, why bother going through the grueling process of modifying? Don't bother. Stop paying your mortgage and save up enough money to get a rental.

        In my experience, banks are not accepting low ball offers on short sales. Rather, they are holding firm to a price that is usually barely close to market value or above. Why? Government backed loans. The banks foreclose, make a claim with the government for the loss, and receive the loan value and get the house back.

        Yes, I know all too well of that river of de nile and it takes the tough love approach in an attempt to convince a homeowner that the cards are stacked against them.

        Most people feel a moral obligation to pay the mortgage, whatever the cost. I attempt to diffuse this theory by explaining it is a business deal. You signed a note and a mortgage or deed. You don't pay, the bank gets the house.

        After an excruciating process of trying to negotiate with the bank, it leaves homeowners beaten down and broke, having depleted retirement, savings, and borrowing from friends and family. And with a house.


        This thread has given me some great thoughts and a possible business venture. The easiest way to make money is using your knowledge. Thanks scofford for starting this thread. My mind is spinning - and that's a good thing!
        Signature
        Learn Website Tips, How to Do Keyword Research, & How to Write Killer Content.
        Stop Wasting Time.
        Start Living Your Dream.
        Click Here NOW to Get Your Hands on
        One of the Most Valuable Ebooks Ever!

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749557].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author rhmn
      Actually that is great information. I've done a bit of investigation on the loan mod "industry" and deterimined it to be nothing but a flimflam with firms claiming to be able to force the banks to negotiate on your mortgage payments. The truth is, since we the people, actually bailed the banks out in the first place, there should have been some legislation that required actions to help homeowners who were gamed by the gatekeepers of the system. Mainly, the banks. Unfortunately politics has prevented any real solutions the foreclosure problem. The banks that were too big to fail in 2008, are now even bigger. The madness continues.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4753022].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
        The only 'utter nonsense' in this thread is this:

        Why anybody would try to "pretend" to give advice or information as a non-lawyer when for about the same price someone could get a full month (or more) of access to REAL lawyers simply boggles my mind.
        While not even investors give 'advice', giving 'information' was the OP's idea, and you don't have to be an attorney to know 'information' and be able to present it.

        All for $17 a month. Less than what most ClickBank reports cost --
        Let's try a little 3rd grade math: $17 per month x 6 months (minimum to find and file something to stop the foreclosure) $102.00

        ClickBank Product- $47 (some go higher, but you need special approval from ClickBank to charge more than $50 for your product..)

        at least, that's BEFORE you end up doing something that causes you to step on a landmine and subsequently lose thousands for failing to respond properly to some letter you got in the mail and didn't realize that not responding waives your rights to future claims.
        And the OP's suggestion is to provide complete information on all available options, not just the 'lawyer on call' who can do nothing but stall with lawsuits, or threats of them, due to breach.

        That is the 'utter non-sense'.

        For some people, stalling for any length of time won't be the best move...their best move may be to sell, and your 'lawyers on call' will never advise that, btw.

        "If foreclosure is inevitable, the earlier you put the house up for sale, the more options you have for selling. And you can avoid months of prepaid legal costs and stressful legal entanglements if you can sell the property and be out from under the debt, and move on." [OP, put that in your sales letter]

        So while I probably wouldn't agree that a ClickBank product is the best way to go, it's certainly not 'utter nonsense' to create an informational product, like an authority site, just because the information is coming from a 'non-attorney', since the only 'utter nonsense' I see is this preposterous idea that attorney's are the 'only' worthy information, which again, is untrue because they will not advise you when it is better to sell... all they will advise you on is what 'terms' you 'might' be able to exploit to 'buy time' through suit or threat of. That is incomplete information.

        -Dani

        P.S. Loss Mitigators don't file lawsuits. Lawyers do. The fact that you don't know this proves you have no authority on the subject at all. Your 'one trick pony' has been noted, and given it's due attention.
        Signature
        The Recon Report
        Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4754432].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Then
    Well, I earn via Adsense for this niche...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749196].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
      Originally Posted by Joseph Then View Post

      Well, I earn via Adsense for this niche...
      What do you mean? You have a site or book or company that markets to people wanting to stop foreclosure?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749221].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Then
        Originally Posted by doingwrite View Post

        What do you mean? You have a site or book or company that markets to people wanting to stop foreclosure?
        Understand the market. I figured that people in this niche won't really be interested buying an ebook and read about it.

        They tend to be more clickly, which is why I go via Adsense route: Provide good information and give them links to click.

        It's a sub-niche of Foreclosure for me.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749258].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
    My family has been in real estate for over 30 years and I own a few rentals in a couple of different states myself and I can tell you from experience that the laws are different from state to state.

    I would think that trying to create a "one size fits all" product in this niche would be very difficult...not to mention covering your back side on the legal side of things since a product like that could be construed as giving "legal advice".
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749452].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
      Originally Posted by Rsberg View Post

      My family has been in real estate for over 30 years and I own a few rentals in a couple of different states myself and I can tell you from experience that the laws are different from state to state.

      I would think that trying to create a "one size fits all" product in this niche would be very difficult...not to mention covering your back side on the legal side of things since a product like that could be construed as giving "legal advice".
      Absolutely, a one size fits all product would be very difficult due to the fine line of legal advice and providing an opinion.

      I have a list of every state's foreclosure laws on my forum. The members and I exchange opinions and it is up to the homeowners to form their own opinions.
      Signature
      Learn Website Tips, How to Do Keyword Research, & How to Write Killer Content.
      Stop Wasting Time.
      Start Living Your Dream.
      Click Here NOW to Get Your Hands on
      One of the Most Valuable Ebooks Ever!

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749603].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MattVit
    Really?





    fore·clo·sure/fôrˈklōZHər/

    Noun: The process of taking possession of a mortgaged property as a result of someone's failure to keep up mortgage payments.

    failure to keep up mortgage payments

    failure to pay


    Please, please tell me this is a troll thread and you're joking.

    If not, perhaps start a thread on "The Huge Untapped Market of Selling New Clothes to Homeless People"...
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749680].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by MattVit View Post

      Really?





      fore·clo·sure/fôrˈklōZHər/

      Noun: The process of taking possession of a mortgaged property as a result of someone's failure to keep up mortgage payments.

      failure to keep up mortgage payments

      failure to pay


      Please, please tell me this is a troll thread and you're joking.

      If not, perhaps start a thread on "The Huge Untapped Market of Selling New Clothes to Homeless People"...
      Yeah this is a troll thread...get real...why would you even think that? Did you read my OP? There's a huge difference between hundreds to thousands of dollars to pay up your mortgage if you're behind and paying for some information to help either avoid foreclosure or find the resources to stop it.

      Just because someone can't pay their house payment doesn't mean they can't pay for other things. I know people who have been in foreclosure who didn't have the money to catch up on their house payment but still had an income. They were able to rent, buy food, buy toiletries etc.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749761].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author MattVit
        Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

        Yeah this is a troll thread...get real...why would you even think that? Did you read my OP? There's a huge difference between hundreds to thousands of dollars to pay up your mortgage if you're behind and paying for some information to help either avoid foreclosure or find the resources to stop it.

        Just because someone can't pay their house payment doesn't mean they can't pay for other things. I know people who have been in foreclosure who didn't have the money to catch up on their house payment but still had an income. They were able to rent, buy food, buy toiletries etc.
        I'm saying it's a troll thread because it's completely thoughtless. You just answered your own question, "They were able to rent, buy food, buy toiletries etc.". I notice you don't include 'entertainment' there, or anything other than bare essentials.

        When I was a poor student, I know I was tight with my money and would hesitate to spend even $10 on a domain name.

        Consider the consumer. If I'm tech savvy enough to find information, ie find this foreclosure ebook, then I'm sure as hell savvy enough to find the information for free. And if my financial position is so terrible that I'm losing my house, I'm going to try and find the 'free' way to do everything and anything.

        I studied Marketing in 2007 so I'd like to think I have a stronger grasp on demographs, markets and consumers than those who haven't studied marketing and I can tell you outright that this is among the stupidest threads I've ever read on here.

        I mean absolutely no offense to you, as it's an oversight anyone could have suffered. But a little thought will help even the average joe realise why this isn't a profitable, or even a sellable, idea/product.

        Hey, prove me wrong.
        Signature

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749835].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author scrofford
          Originally Posted by MattVit View Post

          I'm saying it's a troll thread because it's completely thoughtless. You just answered your own question, "They were able to rent, buy food, buy toiletries etc.". I notice you don't include 'entertainment' there, or anything other than bare essentials.

          When I was a poor student, I know I was tight with my money and would hesitate to spend even $10 on a domain name.

          Consider the consumer. If I'm tech savvy enough to find information, ie find this foreclosure ebook, then I'm sure as hell savvy enough to find the information for free. And if my financial position is so terrible that I'm losing my house, I'm going to try and find the 'free' way to do everything and anything.

          I studied Marketing in 2007 so I'd like to think I have a stronger grasp on demographs, markets and consumers than those who haven't studied marketing and I can tell you outright that this is among the stupidest threads I've ever read on here.

          I mean absolutely no offense to you, as it's an oversight anyone could have suffered. But a little thought will help even the average joe realise why this isn't a profitable, or even a sellable, idea/product.

          Hey, prove me wrong.
          That's YOUR situation. Everybody's situation is different and foreclosures happen for different reasons, although the outcome is the same without curing the deficency. A lot of people aren't techsavvy but know how to search on Google for information and that's about all.

          Also, a lot of this information is scattered all over the place and taking the time to search for it would take quite a while. So if something was offered that compiled all of the info into one product, a lot of people would be interested in that.

          There are a few products even on CB that show you how to stop or avoid foreclosure. You just have to look around a little to see that products like these are available. This niche could be very profitable because people in this situation are desperate and want help or direction NOW.

          Creating an info product helping to point people in the right direction to stop, slowdown or get some kind of help with a foreclosure in a desperate situation could really help a lot of people.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749884].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
          Originally Posted by MattVit View Post

          I'm saying it's a troll thread because it's completely thoughtless. You just answered your own question, "They were able to rent, buy food, buy toiletries etc.". I notice you don't include 'entertainment' there, or anything other than bare essentials.

          When I was a poor student, I know I was tight with my money and would hesitate to spend even $10 on a domain name.

          If I'm tech savvy enough to find information, ie find this foreclosure ebook, then I'm sure as hell savvy enough to find the information for free.

          I studied Marketing in 2007 so I'd like to think I have a stronger grasp on demographs, markets and consumers than those who haven't studied marketing and I can tell you outright that this is among the stupidest threads I've ever read on here.

          Absolutely no offense intended to you, as it's an oversight anyone could have suffered. But a little thought will help even the average joe realise why this isn't a profitable, or even a sellable, idea/product.
          How old are you?
          Do you own a home and have a family?
          Have you ever had to face foreclosure and the possible loss of your family home?

          Tech savvy enough to search? Seriously?

          Leaving aside the idea that based on your attitude from your posts you have never faced the prospect of losing your family's home and not having any idea how hard it can be to think of uprooting your children and any number of other emotional factors which will cause a person to 're-act' when they should be acting....

          As for your brilliant idea of 'searching,' try that from the perspective of the confused and emotionally distressed homeowner..

          Start with a broad search of Stop Foreclosure. No quotes or + signs, that's cheating. What do you find? Adwords ads for capturing leads to sell to investors and loan modification companies (lots of CPA offers) and HUD... good luck comprehending what they say, because trust me, no matter what they 'say', you'll find later that that doesn't apply to YOU, somehow... and maybe some Made For Adsense sites.

          Now realize you have to narrow your search down to your state... only, same kinds of results here too...

          You're not finding the information for free, and this is a race against the clock. You need info and you need it NOW. Your family is depending YOU... Oh, look, here's a book... someone who did know where to find the information compiled it for me and I finally might have a chance at saving my family....

          I've still got unemployment, and my spouse is working. We can't afford our MORTGAGE of $500, and the bank won't take a 'portion' of a payment, so I've got $50 to spare to solve this problem... And it's got a money back guarantee too... (hopefully the school where you 'studied' marketing for a whole year and let you think you know anything does too)

          The tech savvy, or just marketing savvy marketer puts the book where the customer can find it without being tech savvy, btw...


          -Dani
          Signature
          The Recon Report
          Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749890].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author scrofford
            Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

            How old are you?
            Do you own a home and have a family?
            Have you ever had to face foreclosure and the possible loss of your family home?

            Tech savvy enough to search? Seriously?

            Leaving aside the idea that based on your attitude from your posts you have never faced the prospect of losing your family's home and not having any idea how hard it can be to think of uprooting your children and any number of other emotional factors which will cause a person to 're-act' when they should be acting....

            As for your brilliant idea of 'searching,' try that from the perspective of the confused and emotionally distressed homeowner..

            Start with a broad search of Stop Foreclosure. No quotes or + signs, that's cheating. What do you find? Adwords ads for capturing leads to sell to investors and loan modification companies (lots of CPA offers) and HUD... good luck comprehending what they say, because trust me, no matter what they 'say', you'll find later that that doesn't apply to YOU, somehow... and maybe some Made For Adsense sites.

            Now realize you have to narrow your search down to your state... only, same kinds of results here too...

            You're not finding the information for free, and this is a race against the clock. You need info and you need it NOW. Your family is depending YOU... Oh, look, here's a book... someone who did know where to find the information compiled it for me and I finally might have a chance at saving my family....

            I've still got unemployment, and my spouse is working. We can't afford our MORTGAGE of $500, and the bank won't take a 'portion' of a payment, so I've got $50 to spare to solve this problem... And it's got a money back guarantee too... (hopefully the school where you 'studied' marketing for a whole year and let you think you know anything does too)

            The tech savvy, or just marketing savvy marketer puts the book where the customer can find it without being tech savvy, btw...


            -Dani
            EXACTLY! This ^ is what I'm talking about! Thanks DanielleS!
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749915].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
            Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

            How old are you?
            Do you own a home and have a family?
            Have you ever had to face foreclosure and the possible loss of your family home?

            Tech savvy enough to search? Seriously?

            Leaving aside the idea that based on your attitude from your posts you have never faced the prospect of losing your family's home and not having any idea how hard it can be to think of uprooting your children and any number of other emotional factors which will cause a person to 're-act' when they should be acting....

            As for your brilliant idea of 'searching,' try that from the perspective of the confused and emotionally distressed homeowner..

            Start with a broad search of Stop Foreclosure. No quotes or + signs, that's cheating. What do you find? Adwords ads for capturing leads to sell to investors and loan modification companies (lots of CPA offers) and HUD... good luck comprehending what they say, because trust me, no matter what they 'say', you'll find later that that doesn't apply to YOU, somehow... and maybe some Made For Adsense sites.

            Now realize you have to narrow your search down to your state... only, same kinds of results here too...

            You're not finding the information for free, and this is a race against the clock. You need info and you need it NOW. Your family is depending YOU... Oh, look, here's a book... someone who did know where to find the information compiled it for me and I finally might have a chance at saving my family....

            I've still got unemployment, and my spouse is working. We can't afford our MORTGAGE of $500, and the bank won't take a 'portion' of a payment, so I've got $50 to spare to solve this problem... And it's got a money back guarantee too... (hopefully the school where you 'studied' marketing for a whole year and let you think you know anything does too)

            The tech savvy, or just marketing savvy marketer puts the book where the customer can find it without being tech savvy, btw...


            -Dani
            But he studied marketing in 2007.

            You have to remember that you are not your target market. It doesn't matter what you did or what you think. You need to do your niche research regardless of the niche and not make any assumptions.
            Signature
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749928].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Originally Posted by doingwrite View Post

              This week Suze Orman was interviewed and she suggested that everyone who is underwater on their mortgage by at least 20% just walk away.
              As a financial adviser, she's a pretty good TV personality...:rolleyes:

              Originally Posted by Lori Kelly View Post

              Yes, and that onion stinks to high heaven. I hope your friend read that paperwork carefully. Most agreements I read have a borrower waiving rights of future notices - which means ol bankster can sell the house without notice and the homeowner realizes their house has been sold when the new owner knocks on the door.
              He actually got the modification, after almost two years and five 'trial plans'. Now I have a better idea of why the mortgage company had to keep starting over, rather than 'it just sat on the underwriter's desk too long.'

              He asked me to look over the paperwork as a second set of eyes, looking for things he might have missed from being too close to the situation. There was no future rights waiver. In fact, it looked a lot like a straight refi, with the exception that the interest rate was stepped up in increments over several years. The rate still topped out at about 2/3 of his original rate.

              And his modification went through the bank which bought the mortgage company, not through the government program. I'm guessing that the mort co filed as many "SOH" claims as they could, and then did the refi internally.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750027].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Jamesgregory
              I don't believe it's a good idea. People are not going to PAY - especially when facing foreclosure - for help that thousands of ailing real estate industry professionals would provide for FREE to get the client. I've dabbled in it when I first started marketing some years ago.

              There are so many better niches to go after that will take much less of your effort. My $.02, good luck to you..
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4752108].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author MattVit
            The tech savvy, or just marketing savvy marketer puts the book where the customer can find it without being tech savvy, btw...
            Firstly, DanielleS, I said 'tech savvy enough', not 'tech savvy'. As in, a quantified scale. I can be good at gardening, but I'm not a gardener (gardener in the sense of a trade skill). With me?

            Leaving aside the idea that based on your attitude from your posts you have never faced the prospect of losing your family's home and not having any idea how hard it can be to think of uprooting your children and any number of other emotional factors which will cause a person to 're-act' when they should be acting....
            Well this just raises moral and ethical issues with selling such a product to someone in such a state. Perhaps THAT'S why there are so few of these products, and perhaps that's why it should stay this way.
            And also another reason supporting my original contention that this is an unsellable product. Except this reason is beyond demographs, and moves into morality.

            (hopefully the school where you 'studied' marketing for a whole year and let you think you know anything does too)
            Well this is just offensive. I didn't study for just 'a whole year'. Tell me, do you actually have Uni/College education to be in a position to judge my education level?

            You're not finding the information for free, and this is a race against the clock. You need info and you need it NOW. Your family is depending YOU... Oh, look, here's a book... someone who did know where to find the information compiled it for me and I finally might have a chance at saving my family....
            I'm going to be brutally honest here and I'm going to apologise in advance, but it needs to be said. If you're so irresponsible with money that the quote, last $50 after buying essentials, unquote, is spent on a 'magic instant-cure ebook', then that's serious cause for concern. Any educated, intelligent person would understand the predicament they're in, and would understand that an eBook won't solve the problem.

            Let me ask you something directly. If an eBook could solve / insta-fix foreclosure problems, why isn't it the top-selling eBook in the world? This is such a ridiculous thread.
            Signature

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749940].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author scrofford
              Originally Posted by MattVit View Post

              I'm going to be brutally honest here and I'm going to apologise in advance, but it needs to be said. If you're so irresponsible with money that the quote, last $50 after buying essentials, unquote, is spent on a 'magic instant-cure ebook', then that's serious cause for concern. Any educated, intelligent person would understand the predicament they're in, and would understand that an eBook won't solve the problem.

              Let me ask you something directly. If an eBook could solve / insta-fix foreclosure problems, why isn't it the top-selling eBook in the world? This is such a ridiculous thread.
              I'm going to chime in here...First of all, the product I'm thinking about creating isn't a "insta-fix foreclosure problem" product. It would be pointing people in the right direction to help them with their problem.

              Second, it's obvious to me that you haven't been in this kind of desperate situation. When losing your home is on the line and you have no idea what to do, you'll do pretty much whatever it takes to get the information to help you turn that around. I know..I've seen it and have been through it with my family member that's going through.

              You can think what you want. My reasoning for starting this thread wasn't for an opinion as to whether someone thought it was dumb, or stupid, or whatever to create a product like this. I've been doing my research btw.

              I started this thread to ask opinions as to why there weren't more (key word "more" because there are products out there in this niche) products like this being offered. That's all.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749991].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
                Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

                I'm going to chime in here...First of all, the product I'm thinking about creating isn't a "insta-fix foreclosure problem" product. It would be pointing people in the right direction to help them with their problem.

                Second, it's obvious to me that you haven't been in this kind of desperate situation. When losing your home is on the line and you have no idea what to do, you'll do pretty much whatever it takes to get the information to help you turn that around. I know..I've seen it and have been through it with my family member that's going through.

                You can think what you want. My reasoning for starting this thread wasn't for an opinion as to whether someone thought it was dumb, or stupid, or whatever to create a product like this. I've been doing my research btw.

                I started this thread to ask opinions as to why there weren't more (key word "more" because there are products out there in this niche) products like this being offered. That's all.
                I HAVE gone through this. I got a loan modification in the end, but it was a brutal 18 months. I have no idea which particular phone call or letter or response from me made the difference. I was denied three times before getting the HAMP mod. One thing I know is you have to come to grips with the idea you may lose your home or the fight against foreclosure could really put you at psychological and emotional risk.

                I would never go through the process again. I would walk.

                My heart goes out to the people who were slowly chipping away at their mortgages and now, after paying maybe $100k, they are 50% underwater. It has got to be an absolute nightmare.

                For those of you who have not gone through this, please believe me that it is a hell of a way to live a life. I think a more useful niche would be how to negotiate a deed in lieu so you could walk away debt free.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750284].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
              Originally Posted by MattVit View Post

              Firstly, DanielleS, I said 'tech savvy enough', not 'tech savvy'. As in, a quantified scale. I can be good at gardening, but I'm not a gardener (gardener in the sense of a trade skill). With me?

              Well this just raises moral and ethical issues with selling such a product to someone in such a state. Perhaps THAT'S why there are so few of these products, and perhaps that's why it should stay this way.
              And also another reason supporting my original contention that this is an unsellable product. Except this reason is beyond demographs, and moves into morality.

              Well this is just offensive. I didn't study for just 'a whole year'. Tell me, do you actually have Uni/College education to be in a position to judge my education level?

              I'm going to be brutally honest here and I'm going to apologise in advance, but it needs to be said. If you're so irresponsible with money that the quote, last $50 after buying essentials, unquote, is spent on a 'magic instant-cure ebook', then that's serious cause for concern. Any educated, intelligent person would understand the predicament they're in, and would understand that an eBook won't solve the problem.

              Let me ask you something directly. If an eBook could solve / insta-fix foreclosure problems, why isn't it the top-selling eBook in the world? This is such a ridiculous thread.
              1.) Your 'quantified scale' is wholly and grossly negligent of not only statistical data about just how 'tech savvy' the 'average' person is, but also how little you know about the psychology of marketing. A person in emotional distress is not a rational person.

              2.) Moral and ethical issues are a matter of perspective. Morals are personal, and ethics are societal, however there are ways business is actually carried out in the 'brick and mortar' world, is often considered unethical in the "Internet Marketing" world. But that's a different rant about the lack of eduction across the vast majority of all low barrier of entry industries, like Internet Marketing. But for the record, I don't support the idea of a 'book' (as evidenced much earlier in this thread) due to the legalities across states. I do however support the idea of an authority site where experts from each state are contributors to the site. And I have no problem charging people for my expertise... again, you seem to have missed that not being able to make a mortgage payment is not the equivalent of being destitute.

              3.) Yes. I do have the education, and not just the experience of business and marketing, but in the very industry we're discussing in this thread.

              4.) So you didn't like that judgmental attitude? Guess what, neither does the distressed homeowner who is facing the prospect of having to look his children in the eye and explain to them why they have to be uprooted from their home, their school, their friends.... and the people who are qualified to help that homeowner, don't like your judgment that they are immoral or unethical because they invested in the education and knowledge to do so and make an return on that investment. Judgment is a two way street.

              5.) In regards to your 'brutally honest' assessment, any intelligent, educated person would know that the economy, and loss of 'income' make a person lose a home... not $50 spent on anything.

              6.) In regards to why it isn't the best selling book in the world... a few reasons... people like YOU, Denial, and the fact that it's a damn hard topic to effectively cover over 50 different sets of state laws, which is why the OP didn't find much competition.

              -Danielle
              Signature
              The Recon Report
              Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750022].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author LarryC
          << Consider the consumer. If I'm tech savvy enough to find information, ie find this foreclosure ebook, then I'm sure as hell savvy enough to find the information for free. And if my financial position is so terrible that I'm losing my house, I'm going to try and find the 'free' way to do everything and anything. >>

          Almost any information that marketers charge for can be found for free.
          Using that logic, many niches, including IM would be pointless. Let's face it, a high percentage of "how to make money" products appeal to people who are poor or unemployed. Not entirely, but a significant number.

          I'm not involved in the foreclosure niche and there may be good reasons to stay away from it, such as the legal issues that were raised. But there's no basis for assuming that someone facing foreclosure wouldn't be able to afford a $20 e-book or even a $197 product.
          Signature
          Content Writing, Ghostwriting, eBooks, editing, research.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749979].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author MattVit
            Larry, good post, and I agree in part. Correct me if I'm wrong but what you're saying is that the eBook is sellable on the point that the information is collated and made nice and easy. That's how a lot of eBooks are sold. And you're right.

            However, I'm saying that a poor, money-tight person facing foreclosure WON'T mind spending a few extra minutes finding the information for free.

            Example: I recently bought a Twitter follow service. I could have done it myself. And when money was tight, I would have, and there's no chance I would have paid the $17 I did. But I have plenty of extra cash now and can justify paying someone else to spend their time doing it.

            I'm just not sure that this would sell as well as is implied so far in this thread. That's all. I should have predicted that the emotionally vulnerable would use my post as an opportunity to vent, rather than lay out a reasonable assessment of the viability of such an eBook.


            You can think what you want. My reasoning for starting this thread wasn't for an opinion as to whether someone thought it was dumb, or stupid, or whatever to create a product like this. I've been doing my research btw.
            No, perhaps not, but the thread title is 'why are there so few...', so you're asking for answers as to why there aren't, and I gave an opinion.


            Anyway, I'm done with this thread.

            Next time someone wants to argue "you haven't experienced it...", please, you haven't experienced selling such a product. Go do it, and report back. As I said earlier, prove me wrong.

            What better motivation to create this product and help your situation than to prove me wrong.

            To anyone going through this, I do feel for you, and I can only hope that sometime soon it works out. If not, I hope you come out a better person and closer to your family than you could ever have been, given that you've all suffered through it together.
            Signature

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750002].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
            Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

            Almost any information that marketers charge for can be found for free.
            .
            This not always true, and it's definitely not true in the niche we're talking about.

            I probably know 16 different ways to convince a loss mitigator to accept a low-ball short sale offer on a loan in default.

            And they are certainly not published for free.

            -Dani
            Signature
            The Recon Report
            Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750048].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
              Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

              This not always true, and it's definitely not true in the niche we're talking about.
              And even if it were true, there is more to purchasing an info product than just "the facts" that can be had for free.

              Not only do you save time because the info is compiled neatly, but a product can contain perspective that is unique to the author, which can be helpful for others going through the situation.

              While selling info on how to get loan modifications, etc. may be difficult due to various legalities, regulations of States...one thing we are forgetting is that these people are not only looking for relief from their problem, they are also looking for emotional comfort.

              That can easily be provided.

              For example - Steve could compile a book of success stories from those who have gone through the problem. Providing stories of failure and success can give people hope.

              Rob
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750099].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
                Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

                And even if it were true, there is more to purchasing an info product than just "the facts" that can be had for free.

                Not only do you save time because the info is compiled neatly, but a product can contain perspective that is unique to the author, which can be helpful for others going through the situation.

                While selling info on how to get loan modifications, etc. may be difficult due to various legalities, regulations of States...one thing we are forgetting is that these people are not only looking for relief from their problem, they are also looking for emotional comfort.

                That can easily be provided.

                For example - Steve could compile a book of success stories from those who have gone through the problem. Providing stories of failure and success can give people hope.

                Rob
                Also true. I had missed where Matt said that anyone asking if you had 'experience' being in that situation, that you should ask them if they had experience 'selling' to that situation... the answer is YES. To both.

                I actually 'sold' the solutions to the people in foreclosure for years, and despite all my experience, when divorce hit, at the same time as the worst economy in 80 years came crashing down...I faced the prospect of having to uproot my children from their home.

                And, incidentally, I wasn't 'overleveraged' at all. Two incomes were lost. My husband's, and mine. All of our assets were liquidated in the divorce, when they were worthless thanks to the economy. Some people thought it was 'irresponsible' for me to do freelance writing online instead of 'getting a job' (when there were no jobs...) Of course, these were people who had no education and who had never been entrepreneurs, so I didn't think too much of what they thought.

                If I were ever going to create a product for this niche... I'd use the 'emotional comfort' as the loss leader to funnel them into the 'What To Do When The Dust Has Settled" market..

                -Dani
                Signature
                The Recon Report
                Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750182].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    The only universally effective way I know of to stop
    foreclosure in all 50 states is filing a bankruptcy petition.
    Signature
    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749685].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      The only universally effective way I know of to stop
      foreclosure in all 50 states is filing a bankruptcy petition.
      Filing bankruptcy won't stop foreclosure. You still would have to give up your home.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749773].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

        Filing bankruptcy won't stop foreclosure. You still would have to give up your home.
        The automatic stay provision immediately stops collection attempts.
        This gives the homeowner some degree of leverage to renegotiate
        or restructure the debt.

        I said it would stop the procedure... I didn't say it was a permanent solution.
        Signature
        If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4752153].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          What bankruptcy can do is slow the foreclosure process down for months. That's why for some people it's a good option. One family I knew were abl to stay in their home for a total of 13 months with no mortage payment because the laws in this state delay foreclosure if the person files for bankruptcy.

          If If were looking for a subniche to do a product or report/book I'd look at the "preparing for" area. People too often wait for a miracle that will save their home - and they don't find a place to live (much harder once the foreclosure is in your credit record), get medical/school records, find homes for pets if needed, find safe storage for furniture, etc. They are stressed and disbelieving - and planning goes out the window. A guide about that might be good.

          A second area might be "should you go into foreclosure" with pros and cons of initiating it instead of waiting, etc.

          This thread is about marketing foreclosure products - not debating the process

          kay
          Signature
          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
          ***
          One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
          what it is instead of what you think it should be.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4752456].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Regal Content
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749742].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MattVit
      Originally Posted by Regal Content View Post

      Seems like a great niche that'll definitely have those "desperate" buyers. I've never even seen one product in this niche...yet.
      Desperate buyers who have no money............. :rolleyes:
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749749].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
    The appreciation rate on real property in this country has risen at a modest 6% annual average for the past two decades until a few years ago.

    Yes, I blame the banks who run this country for not merely ruining the US housing economy, being responsible for millions of people out of work, and also failing to put safeguards in place to prevent a future meltdown.




    I want to apologize for hijacking this thread and going off topic. Please feel free to delete my posts. It seems I cannot control myself when it comes to this subject.
    Signature
    Learn Website Tips, How to Do Keyword Research, & How to Write Killer Content.
    Stop Wasting Time.
    Start Living Your Dream.
    Click Here NOW to Get Your Hands on
    One of the Most Valuable Ebooks Ever!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4749848].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Lori Kelly View Post

      The appreciation rate on real property in this country has risen at a modest 6% annual average for the past two decades until a few years ago.

      Yes, I blame the banks who run this country for not merely ruining the US housing economy, being responsible for millions of people out of work, and also failing to put safeguards in place to prevent a future meltdown.
      And that's why no one should take anything you say in this thread seriously. Not to mention this:

      The other way I have been successful in getting loan mods and stopping foreclosure is by threatening the banks with media exposure. I have drafted many press releases I sent to the banks with a threat to release them should they continue to pursue foreclosure.
      Isn't threats/extortion/blackmail illegal?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750218].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
        Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

        And that's why no one should take anything you say in this thread seriously. Not to mention this:



        Isn't threats/extortion/blackmail illegal?
        In Lori's defense, BCH, she is a real estate agent.

        The reason the investors are more successful at negotiating short sales is because they are very often also the buyer, seller, unofficial mortgage broker, underwriter, the actuary, the lender and title company. Investors are deep inside the 'financial' part of the industry. They know the ins and outs of the entire industry as a whole... not just 'bringing a buyer and seller together' with the 'traditional' contract to close > Most times the only interaction the real estate has in the lending process is an introduction to a mortgage broker. Even they're contracts are 'standard.'

        Investors will say: 'real estate agents will screw up a deal.' - No offense to real estate agents, but they will. The minute they hear 'creative finance,' 'owner finance', or other actual 'negotitation' terms that go outside their scope of knowledge (the state approved template contract for buy/sell) they a.)think they're commission will be gone, and b.)don't know how to write any other kind of legally binding contract.

        Also, real estate agents aren't 'taught' how to negotiate these types of transactions, or short sales, because of "Fiduciary Responsibility To The Client" and the laws that govern their licensing which oversee those responsibilities. The real estate agents 'job' is to list the property and sell it for the most amount of money the homeowner can get for it. If they advise to sell short to avoid foreclosure, they're now practicing law without a license.

        But Lori, please take this as 'my best intentions.' There is a reason it is called the Economic THEORY. The study of economics is one of a complex maze of factors and variables that no mathematician has been able to successfully 'formulate' into an absolute, hence, theory. To blame Big Brother, Wall Street, banks, predatory lenders, etc... you actually absolve individuals of their own personal responsibilities. And that was 'a' factor, just as much as, every other factor was a factor. There were myriad economic and sociological variables at play in every economic disaster in history. And throughout history, the markets have always self corrected.

        Placing blame won't resolve this. It will resolve itself, and the best thing any of us can do, is to teach those willing to listen, how to generate income and create wealth. Not everyone will listen. Most people won't. But it's a much more rewarding path to walk. Financially and altruistically.

        OP, feel free to add that to whatever site or product you do decide to create... if any.

        -Dani
        Signature
        The Recon Report
        Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750424].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
    Black Hat - If you don't consider my posts informative, that's your opinion.

    A press release is a form of negotiation. I doubt you understand the process of negotiating a loan modification.

    And by the way, I don't merely threaten with press releases, I use them if necessary.
    Signature
    Learn Website Tips, How to Do Keyword Research, & How to Write Killer Content.
    Stop Wasting Time.
    Start Living Your Dream.
    Click Here NOW to Get Your Hands on
    One of the Most Valuable Ebooks Ever!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750314].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
      Originally Posted by Lori Kelly View Post

      Black Hat - If you don't consider my posts informative, that's your opinion.

      A press release is a form of negotiation. I doubt you understand the process of negotiating a loan modification.

      And by the way, I don't merely threaten with press releases, I use them if necessary.
      Lori - I have read the work you have posted at beingmiddleclass.org. You have truly fought for people in incredibly dire situations, and often won. But you never gave false hope.

      Thank you.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750410].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author WishfulDoing
      Lori, thank you for the insightful analysis. You were totally spot-on when you said--

      >>Not only were loans guaranteed by the government, they were insured against loss (AIG) and the banks set up this scheme not just knowing the loans would fail, but betting they would. <<

      Loans were designed (rigged) to produce higher default rates and marketed to thoses people who would most likely take the "bait". Bundles of these loans were then sold to other banks who would then "service" (collect the mortgage payments). Those servicing banks win big with these struggling loans-- they profit from hefty fees for late payments and if the loan defaults they are reimbursed through insurance. The banks have no reason to grant loan modifications when it is so profitable to let them default.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750442].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
        Just a reminder that this is a marketing forum. Getting into discussions about "evil banks" and rigged systems will just turn political and the mods will lock or dump this informative thread.
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750482].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author WishfulDoing
          Right. Back to the original topic...

          I think the OP does have a good idea. He did say that he would not present his product as a solution, but as help in navigating through the maze. I think a resource product like that would be very useful to people going through foreclosure. It would be tricky due to the different laws of each state, however, and would probably have to be udated frequently.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750655].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
    There is most definitely something to be said for simplifying this niche, and explaining alternatives in a way that the average layperson could understand. I wonder how the OP would reach the people in need of this info? WHERE would you market such a product?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750701].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
      I could tell you, but then I'd have to....



      Charge you 10 g's.

      -Dani
      Signature
      The Recon Report
      Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750721].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SageSound
    Consider that maybe there's a reason there's no info products in this niche...

    Dear consumer: Would you like a lawsuit with that ClickBank report? Or just some good sound legal advice?

    For $17 a month, you can sign up for a legal service where you can get all of your questions answered by state-licensed attorneys. They get bashed because they do not and will not either file a lawsuit on your behalf or defend you if you get sued (except in extremely narrow circumstances). But you CAN call them every day with legal questions, have them review contracts, write letters and make phone calls on your behalf. And they're all honest-to-goodness lawyers.

    Why anybody would try to "pretend" to give advice or information as a non-lawyer when for about the same price someone could get a full month (or more) of access to REAL lawyers simply boggles my mind.

    I've been a member of this organization for over a decade. Someone will have to pry my membership out of my cold dead hands, as they've SAVED me more money than what it'll cost me to pay for my membership for the rest of my life.

    Although I can sell their products, I don't promote them at all because their marketing focuses on how likely you are to be sued. However, virtually 100% of the benefits I've gotten from them (and my friends) has been related to debt, credit, and tax-related issues, which they don't even discuss in their marketing literature, which is truly sad.

    I have had dozens and dozens of calls (and a few meetings) with them over the years about foreclosure (on a home I owned and lost back in 2003), bankruptcy options, credit issues, abusive collection agencies, multiple collectors trying to collect the same alleged (and invalid) debt, credit bureaus that refused to remove inaccurate things from my credit profile, how to negotiate settlements with creditors, etc.

    I've also been sued three times in the past decade by creditors. These guys helped me resolve things without costing me a penny more than my monthly membership fee. What Clickbank report is going to do that for you?

    Again, their marketing literature does not discuss ANY of this stuff. But they can and do help with ALL of it. I even had the founding partner of a firm help me with a complex IRS tax audit issue. All for $17 a month. Less than what most ClickBank reports cost -- at least, that's BEFORE you end up doing something that causes you to step on a landmine and subsequently lose thousands for failing to respond properly to some letter you got in the mail and didn't realize that not responding waives your rights to future claims.

    Clickbank report ... vs ... lawyers on call.

    Like ... DOH!

    NOTE: This is not an offer to buy or sell anything. Also, I'm a US Resident; benefits to others may vary.

    -David
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750830].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
      David,
      I have to ask, "Did you read this thread?"

      The ONLY thing a lawyer can do for a person in foreclosure, is to sift through thousands of dollars of 'billable hours' worth of contracts in the pursuit of the slight possibility that the lender somewhere, had breached the contract, giving the borrower a grounds for countersuit.

      On the off chance the breach is found, even more billable hours will be required to file suit, negotiate and argue... and all on the 'chance' of the court siding with the borrower...

      The $17 a month membership you have, something like prepaid legal, only covers so many hours, and I guarantee that it does not cover litigation.

      Even assuming that the homeowner had the money to fight, and there was a breach to fight for... that is THE ONLY THING an attorney can do for a homeowner in foreclosure.

      A homeowner in distress is best served with a basic knowledge of his market (the house's value according to comps, and how long, on average, a similar house in the air has to be on the market to sell)... and from that, work with a real real estate investor.

      Lawyers will screw up a deal as fast as real estate agents will, because of their Fiduciary Responsibilities to their clients, and because of their licenses.

      -Dani
      Signature
      The Recon Report
      Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750892].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author SageSound
        Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

        David,
        I have to ask, "Did you read this thread?"

        The ONLY thing a lawyer can do for a person in foreclosure, is to sift through thousands of dollars of 'billable hours' worth of contracts in the pursuit of the slight possibility that the lender somewhere, had breached the contract, giving the borrower a grounds for countersuit.
        . . .
        -Dani
        The OP stated:

        I have a family member going through foreclosure (not me) and it gave me the idea of possibly creating an info product on how to stop foreclosure or avoiding it altogether.
        Being in foreclosure and avoiding foreclosure are totally distinct matters from both legal and financial standpoint.

        Have you ever personally been involved in a foreclosure or bankruptcy?

        I have. I've also had a real estate license in the past, and several of my family members have their real estate broker licenses and have dealt with these subject on their own as well as had numerous clients involved with both of them. I also presently have a family member who has been attempting to either force a foreclosure or re-fi a note while planning a BK.

        I think what you're alluding to is the fact that in many cases today, it's virtually impossible to tell who the actual note holder for a mortgage might be. This is precisely why a BUNCH of state's Attorneys General have put a stay on mortgage foreclosures from some if not all mortgage lenders. Under most state laws, only the mortgage holder can file a foreclosure proceeding against a home owner. But when a note was bundled into a pool and sold to multiple investors, and a third-party agent is given the task of dealing with delinquent payments, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at the paperwork and determine if the home owner has even the slightest chance of being defrauded in a situation like this.

        Here's the crux of the problem, and it has nothing to do with real estate mortgages specifically: state and federal laws impose statutes of limitations (SOLs) on the time you have to RESPOND to legal notices. The vast majority of people wait until it's too late to do anything, at which point they effectively waive the rest of their legal rights and remedies, turning an otherwise dubious or even fraudulent "notice of default" into a perfectly legal and prosecutable document.

        (For example, I can send you a "Notice of Default" alleging that you owe me a bunch of money, and if you fail to dispute this "debt" within some reasonable time period, then you are notified that I will pursue all legal rights under the law that allow me to collect this "debt". That's a fraud, but if you fail to dispute this alleged debt properly within the given time period, it becomes a legal NOD and you're stuck owing money you never owed. This happens to thousands of consumers every single day by unscrupulous collection agents, most of whom are lawyers or law firms! They KNOW what they're doing!)

        If a note is sold to a third-party for collection, the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act gives you rights and remedies that you do not have if the same note or debt is being collected from "in-house" collectors. Whether that's a mortgage, a car loan, or a credit card debt is irrelevant, the laws are pretty much the same in most states -- although they can vary.

        This kind of thing is pretty simple to detect, and it doesn't take reading through reams and reams of paperwork to figure out when and how you need to reply to any given notice you might get.

        The point is, most people do not bother to even ask a lawyer until it's too late.

        Real estate agents and brokers are for the most part prohibited by state and federal laws from rendering opinions about these matters, although they get asked all the time. Ditto for mortgage agents.

        There are tons of lawyers who'll be happy to charge a few hundred dollars to look over your documents and advise you what to do, then charge even more to assist you in their recommendations.

        A simple info product purchased from Clickbank is NOT going to be much good to people unless it contained a TON of research documenting all of the myriad ways that various creditors and collection agents are creatively committing fraud. You can just as easily peruse the FTC's website and learn a lot of that yourself.

        The easiest way to try blocking a foreclosure today, in most states, is to file a motion for the alleged note holder -- the folks filing the foreclosure action -- to appear in court and produce documentation that proves THEY are, in fact, the note holder of record. Not a member of an investment pool, but the actual note holder of record. That said, some states have actually passed laws that give preference to the mortgage companies, stating that consumers don't have the right to demand that proof, even though Federal laws specifically state that only note holders or assignees can legally collect on a debt. In most cases these days, mortgage companies are neither the note holders nor the assignees; they're merely the billing agents. The have no legal standing to file a foreclosure action; but if they DO, and you fail to respond in time, guess what? It becomes perfectly legal!

        None of this is outside the reach of my membership plan; in fact, I've discussed most of it at one time or another with my lawyers, and they've saved my butt in several cases.

        That said, if you don't want to take some time to learn about your situation and figure out what questions to ask, you're better off just hiring a lawyer.

        I certainly would not expect to get this kind of information from an info product sold on Clickbank, or in fact by anybody online or offline who purported to be anything other than a lawyer or paralegal with lots of experience in this particular field.

        -David
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4751535].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
          Let's try this again... "Did you read this thread?"

          You: Have you ever personally been involved in a foreclosure or bankruptcy?

          Me: Post #59. I actually 'sold' the solutions to the people in foreclosure for years.and despite all my experience, when divorce hit, at the same time as the worst economy in 80 years came crashing down...I faced the prospect of having to uproot my children from their home.

          And, incidentally, I wasn't 'overleveraged' at all. Two incomes were lost. My husband's, and mine. All of our assets were liquidated in the divorce, when they were worthless thanks to the economy. Some people thought it was 'irresponsible' for me to do freelance writing online instead of 'getting a job' (when there were no jobs...) Of course, these were people who had no education and who had never been entrepreneurs, so I didn't think too much of what they thought.


          You: I have. I've also had a real estate license in the past, and several of my family members have their real estate broker licenses and have dealt with these subject on their own as well as had numerous clients involved with both of them.

          Me: Post #64 In Lori's defense, BCH, she is a real estate agent.
          The reason the investors are more successful at negotiating short sales is because they are very often also the buyer, seller, unofficial mortgage broker, underwriter, the actuary, the lender and title company. [THIS WAS ME] Investors are deep inside the 'financial' part of the industry. They know the ins and outs of the entire industry as a whole... not just 'bringing a buyer and seller together' with the 'traditional' contract to close > Most times the only interaction the real estate has in the lending process is an introduction to a mortgage broker. Even their contracts are 'standard.'

          Investors will say: 'real estate agents will screw up a deal.' - No offense to real estate agents, but they will. The minute they hear 'creative finance,' 'owner finance', or other actual 'negotitation' terms that go outside their scope of knowledge (the state approved template contract for buy/sell) they a.)think they're commission will be gone, and b.)don't know how to write any other kind of legally binding contract.

          Also, real estate agents aren't 'taught' how to negotiate these types of transactions, or short sales, because of "Fiduciary Responsibility To The Client" and the laws that govern their licensing which oversee those responsibilities. The real estate agents 'job' is to list the property and sell it for the most amount of money the homeowner can get for it. If they advise to sell short to avoid foreclosure, they're now practicing law without a license.

          Even 'Brokers' have the same Fiduciary Responsibility.

          All the rest of your rambling about who holds the note, and the Fair Debt Collection Act, are nothing more than possible counter suits that could possibly result in a settlement that might cure the default, providing the homeowner has the resources to fight the legal battle, and assuming that the courts would side with the homeowner and find in favor of the homeowner.

          But at the end of all this, is still the fact that if they couldn't make the payments, they're not entitled to continue to not make them because of a mistake on the forms... and if whatever served as the catalyst to bring about the default, such as a loss of income, hasn't been corrected, unless that settlement from their 'lawsuit' is enough to pay off the note in full, the payments will still be due, and they homeowner will still not be able to meet them.

          They can stall them, for a very long time, with such types of lawsuits, but in the end, these are all long shots, not likely to happen, and well gee...

          Then who will everyone 'blame' after the effects of that kind of financial irresponsibility starts affecting the economy...

          Again, I repeat, the only thing 'lawyers' can do is find grounds for counter suits. If the homeowner chooses that route, they'll 'stall' (with very few fairy tale ending stories of the tactic saving the home)... and the foreclosure will still be imminent.

          -Dani
          Signature
          The Recon Report
          Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4751617].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author SageSound
            Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

            Let's try this again... "Did you read this thread?"
            I'm responding to the OP, not the thread.

            Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

            Again, I repeat, the only thing 'lawyers' can do is find grounds for counter suits.
            -Dani
            Yeah, and the only thing doctors can do is amputate limbs after you've gotten gangreen. What about preventing the gangreen in the first place, eh? Aren't doctors any good at PREVENTION?

            This is an extremely short-sighted perspective, and I STRONGLY DISAGREE!

            Look ... I DO have a particular axe to grind in this matter.

            Creditors operate very much on a "clockwork" basis.

            You go from current to 30, 60, 90 days delinquent, then once you hit 120 days, your account gets shunted over to some "risk management" department. That's where you start to have some bargaining power. It's also where you stand to lose most of your options if you fail to respond properly.

            With 15% of the US population unemployed, and half of them for over 99 weeks, we're talking a LOT of delinquencies.

            Creditors don't give a crap why you're delinquent. They pretty much want the issue resolved within 6 months one way or another. If you're still unemployed, that's tough ... for you. As far as they're concerned, it's just "business as usual".

            The thing is, being out of work is like weathering out a storm. It clears up sooner or later. Creditors aren't interested in storms, either literally or figuratively. Ask people who've been foreclosed on who lived in cities ravaged by hurricanes who couldn't qualify for aid.

            What people don't realize is that the "game" here IS, in fact, to stretch things out for as long as you can. Creditors will try to nail your hide to the wall as soon as possible. Your job is to dodge the bullets long enough that you can negotiate a settlement rather than filing BK.

            Here's a factoid: CitiBank took a couple hundred BILLION dollars in bail-out funds from taxpayers and stated that, in doing so, they would use those funds to help keep people from defaulting on their loans. A year later, they testified to Congress that they used less than 2% of those funds as intended, and 99% of the funds they did use went to their most credit-worthy customers. Today, if you call your local county courthouse, you'd probably find that the clerk there will tell you that CitiBank probably has more lawsuits pending against their customers than all the other docketed creditor actions combined. That's how CitiBank used Taxpayer monies to keep taxpayers from avoiding default. (I was one of them!)

            Now, one has to wonder why these banks are so gung-ho to file lawsuits against people who've been unemployed for extended periods of time.

            I don't have an answer to that. But the end result is pretty simple: the vast majority of people they'll end up getting default judgements against will most likely file bankruptcy. Not because they want to, but because they've been unable to put off a bunch of creditors suing them, and now they've got default judgements and a virtual guarantee that as soon as they DO get a job again, their wages will be garnished.

            So, yes, an extremely viable strategy in today's climate is NOT counter-suits, but simply DELAYING LEGAL ACTIONS.

            What most people don't realize is that, if you do know your rights and remedies under the law, or if you have easy access to lawyers who can advise you in such matters, it's actually not all that difficult to delay things -- long enough that once you start working again, you can negotiate settlements without being under the gun of garnishments or putting your first paycheck towards filing BK to discharge a bunch of default judgements.

            Filing BK before you get any default judgements makes dealing with those legal proceedings much easier than if you wait until afterwards.

            Also, when you file for BK can affect whether you qualify for Chapter 7 or Chapter 13.

            It's more a question of strategy these days. Without creative intervention, creditors will have your hide nailed to a wall on a fairly predictable time table and you will have few if any options. In most cases, lawsuits are not required. Simply knowing your rights and remedies under the law is sufficient.

            You can argue with me all you want, but I'm here today saying that I have employed these strategies to do exactly what I stated -- I've avoided BK and been able to negotiate settlements even in the face of a lawsuit from CitiBank. My credit may be trashed, but I'm able to pay my bills again and I don't have any default judgements or a BK to show for nearly two years of unemployment, even though both were and continue to be possibilities.

            And the family member I referred to earlier has been negotiating with the mortgage company for over a year trying to re-fi the mortgage that under several Federal programs they're supposed to do. But they keep raising one issue after another, and my sibling keeps sending in disputes and more paperwork, leading to further delays. A BK will probably be filed next month, and it might or might not get the bank to do anything productive. Either way, this has gone on for over a year, and even if a foreclosure is issued, nobody will be going anywhere for another 6-9 months. Meanwhile, the real estate market is slowly picking up, and in 6-9 months, it's likely that cashflow will be sufficient to avoid further problems.

            -David
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4751771].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
              Originally Posted by SageSound View Post

              I absolutely disagree!

              Look ... I DO have a particular axe to grind in this matter.

              Creditors operate very much on a "clockwork" basis.

              You go from current to 30, 60, 90 days delinquent, then once you hit 120 days, your account gets shunted over to some "risk management" department. That's where you start to have some bargaining power. It's also where you stand to lose most of your options if you fail to respond properly.

              With 15% of the US population unemployed, and half of them for over 99 weeks, we're talking a LOT of delinquencies.

              Creditors don't give a crap why you're delinquent. They pretty much want the issue resolved within 6 months one way or another. If you're still unemployed, that's tough ... for you. As far as they're concerned, it's just "business as usual".
              HOW DARE THOSE *******S TRY TO STAY IN BUSINESS?!

              Everything else is just deflection of the your own responsibilities.

              I find it intriguing how the 'entitlement establishment' carries on whining about how the bad guys weren't regulated and didn't take 'responsibility', but then don't want to take any for themselves when it comes to going 30, 60, 90 days late...

              No wonder I find it so hard to blame 'business' for doing 'business'... when I hear about consumers who don't understand business at all, not wanting to be responsible or accountable for their own actions.

              You keep trying to convince people to avoid responsibility, and I'll keep trying to convince them to be fiscally responsible, before people like you make sure that 'credit' never exists again...

              OP- put that in your book too please.

              -Dani

              P.S. We're not going to continue to derail the thread with the political blame game ramblings, for the purpose of keeping this to MARKETING:

              Thankfully, the market hasn't quite resorted to this kind of 'entitlement establishment thinking.' So I wouldn't pay attention to the ramblings OP... most people would consider doing things that David suggested as being a 'deadbeat loser drain on society.'
              Signature
              The Recon Report
              Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4751832].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author SageSound
                Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

                You keep trying to convince people to avoid responsibility, and I'll keep trying to convince them to be fiscally responsible, before people like you make sure that 'credit' never exists again...
                -Dani
                ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!

                When corporations file BK, they have an option of basically suspending all of their creditor payments for months, if not years, in order to "reorganize", usually due to changes in their business that have resulted in their inability to pay all of their current obligations. Many times, this process leads to reduced interest, renegotiated leases, and some amount of forgiven debt. But the key thing is, it affords the company TIME TO GET BACK ON ITS FEET!

                Consumers do not have such an option! We either get to discharge everything, or negotiate a settlement that pays everything out over 5 years, both of which are closely supervised by the court and others. In the process many personal and private details about our life become a matter of public record. I'm a child of the 60's, and I'm not keen to have my personal financial life made a matter of public court records in order to simply renegotiate some debts. (People born in the 80's and later don't seem to covet their personal privacy nearly as much.)

                All I've done is outlined a way to do something that BK laws don't offer consumers as an option.

                You're suggesting that the ONLY option available to someone who's gotten delinquent due to extended unemployment or some other circumstance that's left them broke and without sufficient cashflow to pay their bills (like a divorce) is to file BANKRUPTCY and discharge their debts.

                Suggesting not consulting with attorneys for anything other than counter-suit is silly. Because ignoring Notices of Default usually leads to one predictable outcome: default judgements.

                You might think you managed to escape filing BK, only to find that the default judgements make life far worse ... leading to that dreaded BK filing anyway.

                Please explain how THAT is something OTHER than "avoiding responsibility"?

                I could have filed Bankruptcy at almost any time in the past two years and discharged 100% of my debts. Boy, that would sure be nice! I'd have a lot more disposable income today if I'd done that. Instead, I delayed things long enough that I'm now in a position to resume repaying my debts -- without the necessity of a court order!

                Again, I'd ask you to explain how that in any way "avoiding responsibility"?

                My personal position, and that of lots of people I've known in similar situations, is that we would prefer NOT to file bankruptcy IF there was an option to simply DELAY making payments long enough to get back on our feet. But that option simply doesn't exist today -- at least, not without some creative intervention.

                Lots of people feel doubly victimized -- initially by the fact that they ended up on the short end of the stick financially, and then again when they discovered they had no way to do anything other than flush everything down the toilet.

                Most of the people today who are in financial straits are honest, responsible folks who did not expect to get where they ended up. People who were given NINJA loans actually felt they'd qualified for something they deserved. The fact that nobody sat down with them and did some financial planning to help them see they were being stupid is another matter.

                Most people do not like not being able to meet their responsibilities, and it makes them angry that they have no option other than to discharge debts through bankruptcy.

                Ironically, BK laws now require you to attend a class on money management in order to qualify for the BK discharge. What a crock! Talk about shutting the barn door after the horses have escaped! Sheesh! What about requiring such a class in order to qualify for a mortgage?

                Anyway, the flip side of this that I think too many banks and lawmakers are ignoring is that a large proportion of these same folks are not about to put themselves in a position of ever having to be in that position again. As a result, they may not apply for credit accounts for quite a long time, if ever. Lots of folks I've talked with say that now that they're "debt free" thanks to an unwelcome and unwanted bankruptcy (and, they feel, particularly undeserving), they're going to stay that way, thank you very much.

                Once I do get my debts paid off, I won't qualify for any reasonable credit for several years. And I really am not much interested in getting more.

                -David
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4751961].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author scrofford
                  Originally Posted by SageSound View Post

                  ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!

                  When corporations file BK, they have an option of basically suspending all of their creditor payments for months, if not years, in order to "reorganize", usually due to changes in their business that have resulted in their inability to pay all of their current obligations. Many times, this process leads to reduced interest, renegotiated leases, and some amount of forgiven debt. But the key thing is, it affords the company TIME TO GET BACK ON ITS FEET!

                  Consumers do not have such an option! We either get to discharge everything, or negotiate a settlement that pays everything out over 5 years, both of which are closely supervised by the court and others. In the process many personal and private details about our life become a matter of public record. I'm a child of the 60's, and I am not keen to have my personal financial life made a matter of public court records in order to simply renegotiate some debts. (People born in the 80's and later don't seem to covet their personal privacy at all.)

                  All I've done is outlined a way to do something that BK laws don't offer consumers as an option.

                  You're suggesting that the ONLY option available to someone who's gotten delinquent due to extended unemployment or some other circumstance that's left them broke and without sufficient cashflow to pay their bills (like a divorce) is to file BANKRUPTCY and discharge their debts.

                  Please explain how THAT is something OTHER than "avoiding responsibility"?

                  I could have filed Bankruptcy at almost any time in the past two years and discharged 100% of my debts. Boy, that would sure be nice! I'd have a lot more disposable income today if I'd done that. Instead, I delayed things long enough that I'm now in a position to resume repaying my debts -- without the necessity of a court order!

                  Again, I'd ask you to explain how that in any way "avoiding responsibility"?

                  My personal position, and that of lots of people I've known in similar situations, is that we would prefer NOT to file bankruptcy IF there was an option to simply DELAY making payments long enough to get back on our feet. But that option simply doesn't exist today -- at least, not without some creative intervention.

                  Lots of people feel doubly victimized -- initially by the fact that they ended up on the short end of stick financially, and then again when they discovered they had no way to do anything other than flush everything down the toilet.

                  Most of the people today who are in financial straits are honest, responsible folks who did not expect to get where they ended up. They do not like not being able to meet their responsibilities, and it makes them angry that they have no option other than to discharge things through bankruptcy.

                  The flip side of this that I think too many banks and lawmakers are ignoring is that a large proportion of these same folks are not about to put themselves in a position of ever having to be in that position again. As a result, they may not apply for credit accounts for quite a long time, if ever. Lots of folks I've talked with say that now that they are "debt free" thanks to an unwelcome and unwanted bankruptcy (and they feel, undeserving), they're going to stay that way, thank you very much.

                  -David
                  How does any of this have anything to do with my original post? This is so far off topic that I wonder if the mods will let it stay? We were talking about why there weren't more info products about either avoiding or curing foreclosure. Do you have any info that could contribute to this?
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4751996].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author SageSound
                    Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

                    How does any of this have anything to do with my original post? This is so far off topic that I wonder if the mods will let it stay? We were talking about why there weren't more info products about either avoiding or curing foreclosure. Do you have any info that could contribute to this?
                    As I said, avoiding foreclosure and curing foreclosure are two totally distinct things.

                    Both require you to adopt a strategy that fits your particular situation and values.

                    It's kinda like asking how to avoid vs. cure diabetes. Once you're a diabetic, the time to employ ways to avoid it has passed. Sure, some of the things you'd do to avoid it would be helpful, but a diabetic has a lot of non-negotiable stuff to deal with that wasn't even relevant beforehand.

                    The discussion above is actually relevant because it illustrates different approaches to this subject. My strategy allowed me to AVOID what many told me was an inevitable bankruptcy filing and/or several default judgements.

                    Neither have happened, and I am today continuing to repay my debts after a rather long hiatus.

                    My sibling has also been AVOIDING foreclosure while at the same time PLANNING a bankruptcy filing.

                    This much is certain -- if you do nothing (or don't do the right thing in a timely manner), you WILL be foreclosed upon, you WILL end up waiving your legal rights and remedies, and you WILL most likely be faced with default judgements and/or the necessity of filing for bankruptcy.

                    Said another way, failing to take action to avoid foreclosure will most likely lead directly to foreclosure, which significantly reduces your options. The opposite is not necessarily the case.

                    I'm not sure there's much you can do to "cure" a foreclosure, other than take advantage of the services of a lawyer who thinks you've got a case they can take on contingency.

                    There's a TON of stuff you can do to avoid foreclosures, defaults, and eventual garnishments, including strategically filing for BK.

                    But you MUST know what your rights and remedies under the law are!

                    That's because you're mostly going to be dealing with lawyers who will employ every trick in the book to trip you up.

                    -David
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4752083].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
                      No, you're not going to be dealing with 'lawyers,' you're going to be dealing with loss mitigators whose job it is to stop the lender from hemorrhaging money and not paying on their debts because they're customers aren't paying on theirs.



                      You only have to deal with 'lawyers' if you want to turn it into a lawsuit so you can find reasons not to pay, instead of ways to work with the bank.


                      And the real 'experts', the investors, know how to negotiate with the loss mitigators to make that happen. "Lawyers" wouldn't tell you how to do that, even if they knew.


                      -Dani
                      Signature
                      The Recon Report
                      Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4752133].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author SageSound
                        Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

                        No, you're not going to be dealing with 'lawyers,' you're going to be dealing with loss mitigators whose job it is to stop the lender from hemorrhaging money and not paying on their debts because they're customers aren't paying on theirs.
                        -Dani
                        These "loss mitigators" have filed more lawsuits in the past two years against people who are unable to pay their debts than at any time in history.

                        They are not "mitigating" losses. Rather, they're gambling that some percentage of the people they're suing will end up paying back some of their debts.

                        However, estimates are that nearly 95% of these suits will result in default judgements, and the majority of those will be discharged in Bankruptcy filings over the next several years.

                        That's not "loss mitigation" in my book. It's how the mafia operates. They give you a bunch of loans that you can't possibly be expected to repay. Then they threaten to take away your home, car, assets, and eventually just ruin your life, all in the hope of maybe getting back some small percentage of what they loaned you.

                        They don't care, because they've already covered their losses from two sources: insurance claims, and tax breaks.

                        Banks are required by law to move bad debts off their books within a year of them going bad so as to not inflate the asset value of their holdings. Otherwise they'd be reporting all of these upside-down mortgages as hugely profitable portfolio holdings rather than the toxic waste that they represent.

                        And the "hemorrhaging" stops when they do that (if it ever existed at all).

                        It also shifts these accounts from being taxable assets to tax loss credits that can be deducted from earnings or used to reduce previous or future taxable earnings, thus effectively dumping their waste into the laps of taxpayers. Look for them to be reporting record losses at the same time they're reporting record earnings. The difference between those two numbers reflects roughly how much is being dumped into taxpayer laps.

                        These banks created these huge Ponzi schemes to boost their bottom-lines; conspired to market these toxic financial instruments to unwary consumers and other "insiders", most of whom should have known better; made a TON of profits; and in the process took the world economy to the brink of disaster. Every one of their executives got HUGE bonuses, was fired, and walked away with even larger "golden parachutes" for their troubles.

                        To date, not one of them has been charged with a crime, yet they collectively managed to suck nearly $2 Trillion dollars of wealth out of the world economy while perpetrating their fraud. They directly caused a number of large financial institutions here and abroad to fail, and led scores of consumers to lose most if not all of their retirement savings, homes, and assets.

                        I'm really sorry, but I have absolutely ZERO COMPASSION for our financial institutions, the people who ran them, or those who are running them today.

                        The sheer volume of lawsuits these people have filed and continue to file, in spite of taking money from taxpayers on the condition of NOT doing this, is proof enough that they have no integrity or desire to deal fairly and equitably with the people who have kept them in business -- their customers. In five years, these same banks will be BEGGING people to borrow money from them, the same people they burned after telling Congress they'd help out as long as Congress helped THEM survive.

                        They deliberately and consciously created the conditions that led to this "hemorrhaging", and the whole thing was entirely predictable and preventable.

                        At the present time, the reason they appear to be moving so slowly in liquidating their toxic assets is because they created such a mess in terms of who owns what, and the courts are demanding that they get it straightened out in many cases before they can file foreclosure actions against their customers.

                        These supposed "loss mitigators" are filing so many lawsuits so fast they don't know what they're doing much of the time. Many are breaking the law just with the methods they're employing to file these suits!

                        Again, we're right back to HOW TO AVOID FORECLOSURE -- it's simple: know what your rights and remedies are!

                        If a judge in your city/county/state has ruled that you cannot be foreclosed upon without clearly documented evidence of who owns your note -- as is required by Federal law, and that PERSON is unable to appear in court, then guess what? THEY CANNOT PROCEED WITH YOUR FORECLOSURE! You can have it dismissed!

                        How are you going to know that without getting some legal advice?

                        And you don't even have to file a lawsuit. Simply know your rights and remedies, and be prepared to assert them at the scheduled hearings.

                        I've known several people who've done exactly this, and they've had their foreclosures dismissed. That has not kept the banks from trying again, but it does let them stay in their homes, and puts things off for another day.

                        -David
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4752540].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
                  David,

                  When you assume you make an ass out of 'u' and ooomh.

                  Now, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm right, as I've been particularly close attention to this thread, and I know for a fact that I have never advocated bankruptcy (I know better) and I am 99% sure that no one else did either.

                  I did suggest that pre-paid legal is not your Savior.

                  The 'bank' can't really afford to go out of businesses because the homeowners haven't replaced a lost income.

                  You said yourself that when a business files bankrupcty, it gives them time to get back on their feet...

                  Guess what! Bankruptcy does the same thing for the consumer too!

                  And when the consumer files bankruptcy, they have 6 months to a year, (depending on whether their prepaid legal attorney is good enough to guide them in how to 'game' the system) to 'get on their feet.' Additionally, with much less debt than a business has, and still with bad credit (again, unless they have a good lawyer who can game the system.)

                  Do you know what a D&B report is? It's a 'businesses' credit report, and when a business files bankruptcy, their credit is destroyed too, and they have to raise a Hell of a lot more capital to 'get back on their feet' than the average J.Q Homeowner does.

                  So I fail to see how you can fail see the equality based on the proportion.

                  I'm not sure how thrilled I am at the idea of you still having good credit because you were able to avoid bankruptcy and get your late marks deleted... great for you, more power to you, I'm all for exploiting holes in a marketplace, but too many people pull that crap... and credit gets even tighter. oh... wait.... it already has!

                  You're free to think 'this is the way to do things.' But the OP is better off to sell a real solutions, possibly 'including' PrePaid legal, but certainly not as THE solution. It's a long shot workout at best, and most of the market, won't even respond to the idea that 'lawyers' are the answer.

                  -Dani
                  Signature
                  The Recon Report
                  Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4752039].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author SageSound
                    Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

                    Now, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm right, as I've been particularly close attention to this thread, and I know for a fact that I have never advocated bankruptcy (I know better) and I am 99% sure that no one else did either.
                    You don't have to advocate bankruptcy at all. If someone has insufficient income to pay their debts for long enough, their options are limited. Creditors will begin filing lawsuits and eventually they'll have to choose between a bunch of default judgements and/or bankruptcy.

                    Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

                    I did suggest that pre-paid legal is not your Savior.
                    You're RIGHT and ... I NEVER SAID THAT!

                    My position was and remains that only by knowing our rights and remedies under the law can we be proactive and dodge bullets that the vast majority of people don't even recognize are coming at them!

                    And to address the specific topic of the OP, an info product sold on Clickbank that costs more than several months of access to a pre-paid legal plan is utter nonsense. I'm not saying that access to a pre-paid legal service is any kind of "savior".

                    What I *AM* saying that there's a world of difference between a who-knows-how-old report written by a non-lawyer who you cannot call with questions vs. the ability to pick up the phone and talk to a REAL LAWYER ANY TIME YOU WANT.

                    The OP asked why there aren't more such reports being marketed. I'm putting this forth as one very plausible and reasonable answer.

                    If you think differently, please say so, and stop putting words in my mouth!


                    Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

                    The 'bank' can't really afford to go out of businesses because the homeowners haven't replaced a lost income.
                    What's putting banks out of business was their own unwillingness to manage the excessive risk they took on in their portfolios due to their own greed. They had a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders and they FAILED!

                    Saying they don't deserve to take a hit for creating what amounts to a Ponzi scheme that issued hundreds of thousands of loans to people who any sane financial manager would say were "unqualified" is absurd. Don't blame the people who got NINJA loans for filing bankruptcy -- anybody who looked at what was really going on saw that coming from the outset. It was as predictable as the sun rising.

                    The Boards of Directors and Executives of these financial institutions should have all of the gains they made from their frauds taken from them and they should be put in jail.

                    The poor suckers who got loans who didn't really deserve them should be given some sort of leeway. At the present time, what's happening is a tsunami of lawsuits being filed by creditors against them. ALL of it will end up being discharged in BK filings that most of these folks have and will continue to file, except for school loans. And those school loans are the next tidal wave of stupid financial problems that Congress and Bankers caused that's about to hit our economy.

                    Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

                    And when the consumer files bankruptcy, they have 6 months to a year, (depending on whether their prepaid legal attorney is good enough to guide them in how to 'game' the system) to 'get on their feet.' Additionally, with much less debt than a business has, and still with bad credit (again, unless they have a good lawyer who can game the system.)
                    Bankruptcy is where you end up if you fail to plan properly. It's not inevitable. And having access to lawyers to answer questions is an integral means of AVOIDING BANKRUPTCY. These guys will NOT ... I repeat NOT ... get engaged in strategizing or otherwise helping you "game" anything. That said, I challenge you to find a single attorney who tells you that the practice of law is anything OTHER than continual gamesmanship.

                    Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

                    I'm not sure how thrilled I am at the idea of you still having good credit

                    -Dani
                    Again, you're putting words in my mouth. As I said, my credit is shot, and it will be years before I qualify for any kind of decent credit.

                    The Good News is ... I have AVOIDED filing BK, have AVOIDED getting any default judgements, and have AVOIDED having to spend thousands on legal fees or scammers to accomplish this.

                    And I have RESUMED paying my debts.

                    If you'd stop twisting what I've said, you'll see that what I've accomplished is fairly consistent with what you're advocating ... except I refuse to accept a Bankruptcy filing as the only possible way to accomplish restructuring of debts.

                    Again, back to the OP ... I've often considered writing such a guide myself. But in the end, it boils down to one crucial element: you need access to qualified attorneys to get your questions answered! You will not get this from an info product sold on Clickbank.

                    I have, in fact, studied several aspects of the law, including the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), Fair Debt Collections Practices Act (FDCPA), and many others. Understanding the key issues and rulings that are laid out in these acts is crucial to your ability to deal with creditors effectively to AVOID foreclosure, bankruptcy, and default judgements.

                    The FTC reports that as many as 75% of all collection letters sent out by creditors and collectors "do not conform with legal requirements". What does that mean for us as consumers?

                    Well, in many cases, the lawyers who send these out (yeah, they're lawyers, and they know exactly what they're doing) are committing what's called statutory violations. All you need to do is file a motion in Federal court along with the paperwork they sent you and you can get money from them! Just try finding a lawyer who'll take that case for you, because the awards are limited to $1000 max. The cards are stacked against consumers, even though every one of the acts like FCRA and FDCPA state that they were written to give consumers every advantage in dealing with disreputable creditors and collectors.

                    So if you don't begin with the letters that are sent to you when you first default on your loan -- ANY loan -- then you risk losing every bit of your legal leverage right at the outset.

                    A report that covers this stuff would almost certainly be purchased too late to be useful by someone who's already behind the 8-ball. And once you've missed a step and waived your rights by failing to respond timely, the options available to fix things become extremely limited and increasingly complicated to deal with.

                    When it comes to debts, an ounce of prevention is worth a few TONS of cure.

                    Finally, there's a boat-load of stuff available for free on the FTC's web site about this topic. But, as always, what's missing is ... it's not "legal advice". You need to consult with a qualified attorney to determine how it may or may not apply in your specific case.

                    If you take the opinion that the only thing a lawyer is good for is filing a lawsuit, then you might a well go crawl in a hole, because you're just agreed to remain ignorant of any legal rights and remedies the law gives us. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for failing to seek out possible solutions that you don't even know might exist. The American Bar Association has estimated that over 90% of all lawsuits could be AVOIDED ENTIRELY if people were more proactive in dealing with things from the moment they receive a letter in the mail.

                    Which brings us back to my original post and why I've found virtually unlimited access to a staff of lawyers for $17/mo to be worth far more than any HUNDRED info products that people could write.

                    Lawyers are not "saviors"; in fact, most of them are pains in the ass! That's why they exist. Unfortunately, they're also a very critical and important part of any strategy to AVOID LEGAL PROBLEMS -- which is what credit and debt issues are.

                    (Do you know how many times I've heard people say, "I don't have any legal problems" but they they start going on about credit and debt issues they've been having for the past year. Why do people think credit and debt issues are NOT "legal problems"?)

                    -David
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4752318].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

    I have a family member going through foreclosure (not me) and it gave me the idea of possibly creating an info product on how to stop foreclosure or avoiding it altogether.

    My gut instinct tells me that people facing foreclosure are generally struggling to control every penny spent, and maybe cannot convince themselves to spend an extra $47 to get a product that could help them save their home?
    Signature
    Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750900].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      My gut instinct tells me that people facing foreclosure are generally struggling to control every penny spent, and maybe cannot convince themselves to spend an extra $47 to get a product that could help them save their home?
      You'd be surprised. I've had people pay me money to take their deed and take over their payments so that it didn't come to the point of foreclosure.

      -Dani
      Signature
      The Recon Report
      Reliable Results, Predictable Profits
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4750941].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Patrick Pretty
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      My gut instinct tells me that people facing foreclosure are generally struggling to control every penny spent, and maybe cannot convince themselves to spend an extra $47 to get a product that could help them save their home?
      Actually, I think they could be persuaded to spend a lot more than $47 and that the acquisition of the product at any price likely only will compound their problems -- even if one allows for the possibility that an exceptionally well-vetted and legally scrubbed product could provide useful advice and not cross any lines.

      The niche exists at the FOUR STOP-SIGN intersection of extremely vulnerable and desperate customers, the worst IM predators and disingenuous opportunists, regulators and politicians. There are few more dangerous intersections at which an IMer might set up shop. There are land mines in every direction.

      I think I might actually projectile-vomit if an IMer advances a theory by which one should set up a membership site and some sort of continuity-billing scheme at this intersection.

      Covered a story at this intersection last year in which an MLMer told his affiliates that it was the "MORAL OBLIGATION" of churches to pitch a purported mortgage-reduction program that paid commissions 10 levels deep.

      Want to know what was more bizarre than that? The purported program was tied to another purported program in which the MLMer was soliciting for cash (to be charged on credit cards or funded via certified check) -- amid claims that the cash would be returned with purported interest of 20+ percent.

      The "program" was so badly mangled and tortured that the purported mortgage-reduction program was tied to a purported MLM "resorts" program -- i.e., target people who are losing their homes and try to get people of faith on board while simultaneously investing in time-share resorts in an exotic location.

      As my coverage proceeded, a person who was crazy as a loon looked at the sum of my coverage and somehow arrived at the conclusion that I was a tool for Israel and that the former Secretary of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security was a suspect in the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

      Patrick
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4751112].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      My gut instinct tells me that people facing foreclosure are generally struggling to control every penny spent, and maybe cannot convince themselves to spend an extra $47 to get a product that could help them save their home?
      Or again like I've stated in earlier posts, maybe people who are desperate to keep their homes might spend $47 or more for information to help turn things around. To get the information they need to point them in the right direction to being able to keep their home or at least know their options.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4751122].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author digichik
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      My gut instinct tells me that people facing foreclosure are generally struggling to control every penny spent, and maybe cannot convince themselves to spend an extra $47 to get a product that could help them save their home?
      I sold an e-course about foreclosure mitigation for $279.00 each. Although the laws are different in all 50 states, there are commonalities. There are either mortgages or deeds of trust, you must understand the difference, the process, and the laws of a given state. It can be covered in an easy to follow course.

      The problem is the banks were not negotiating in good faith, and system seemed to be rigged from the beginning (this is not political, just an informed observation).

      Those posters who are very judgmental about people in foreclosure should realize that there but for the grace of God (or whatever higher power you may believe in) go you. Remember, all you possess can be taken away from you in ways you never dreamed possible, very suddenly. You should be grateful it hasn't happened, and a whole lot more compassionate.
      Signature



      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4751848].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author scrofford
    Wow, I didn't mean for this to turn into a battle about what people thought about foreclosure and what not. I simply asked originally why in people's opinions there weren't many info products about either how to stop or prevent it.

    I'm not interested in giving legal advice or scamming people or doing anything of the sort. I think though that a product pointing people in the right direction as what to do when they have been foreclosed on could be very helpful. This isn't giving legal advice or giving snake oil advice.

    There are a lot of things people can do and many people just don't know what to do when it happens. Anyhow, I hope we can keep this thread on track so it doesn't get nuked because some people here have given some great information! Thanks to those of you who understand what I'm thinking doing and have given your thoughts and advice!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4751980].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
      Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

      Wow, I didn't mean for this to turn into a battle about what people thought about foreclosure and what not. I simply asked originally why in people's opinions there weren't many info products about either how to stop or prevent it.
      Not your fault Steve. Your OP is a great topic that can be applied to overall niche research for creating info products in any niche but people can't help turning things political.

      That's why politics and religion topics are not allowed on the WF. They just turn nasty.

      http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...forbidden.html
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4752092].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
    Maybe come up with information on how to do a short sell............ I am not sure if lots of people know anything about this. It may not help them save their house, but it may help them save their credit, so they can get another house later....
    Signature
    Need Custom Graphics Work? - Message Me For A Design Quote!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4752474].message }}

Trending Topics