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PayPal, Is it time to say Game Over ?

by onegoodman
55 replies
I have been wondering for a while, with all things going on with PayPal lately, shutting accounts and limiting others. Moreover, the fees that increased lately.

There were a time, where the word PayPal define the safe payment on the internet for buyers, but PayPal is no longer the only one player in the game. AlertPay and Moneybooker have been in this game for a while, they earned people trust. If you are a buyer, maybe you didn't user AlertPay or Moneybooker but you know for sure they are alternatives for PayPal.

PayPal start hitting on huge number of accounts, probably for safety reasons, but on the other hand, you can check out the mess that left behind.

Sellers who were hit by PayPal didn't leave alone, did they ? most IMers sellers are buyers too for many online services. Beside, freelancers websites who abandon PayPal are still running and the same buyers are hiring the same programmers again with our without PayPal.

The only reason that PayPal shined out in the first place was eBay, who is now open to other payments like moneybookers.

If you get your own products and start marketing it and decided to accept AlertPay only or Moneybooker, do you think people will not buy because they don't have an account that they can create it in less than 5 minuets ?

When I am interested in specific type of products online, I never pay attention to how can we pay until I make my mind what product I want to buy, will I change my mind after comparing 10 products and decided that product x is the one just because I can't use PayPal ?

I guess PayPal need to buckle up and start looking around what went wrong, it is a manner of time before someone else become # 1
#game #paypal #time
  • Profile picture of the author dadamson
    Yeah, it always sends a shiver down my spine when I hear these stories of PayPal shutting down accounts as stuff.

    I have a LOT of recurring subscriptions through them, so I definitely need to start looking for alternatives and also using more than one PayPal account.
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  • Profile picture of the author tahoecale
    Omg i cant wait to find a service that is the same but without how weak there customer service is.. and they treat the sellers like trash and just give out refunds for no reason AAAAA i hate paypal... but can live without them AAAA lol
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    • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
      I guess the stars of others start to raise up faster in this year than ever. I guess a year ago, AlertPay wasn't as well known as today but the more things getting scary for sellers, the faster they have to dig for an alternative.

      I guess it is true story, the easiest solution on PayPal is to refund money
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      • Profile picture of the author JSThompson
        I guess it is true story, the easiest solution on PayPal is to refund money[/QUOTE]

        Nope refunding money on paypal gets you in trouble with them too. I refunded two $1 payments to someone a few months back and the next day paypal decided my account would have to wait 21 days to get access to any money I make. The thing is I had never had a problem with paypal and the seller didnt even contact them. I refunded the seller with their refund function and that was my mistake.
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        • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
          Originally Posted by JSThompson View Post

          Nope refunding money on paypal gets you in trouble with them too. I refunded two $1 payments to someone a few months back and the next day paypal decided my account would have to wait 21 days to get access to any money I make. The thing is I had never had a problem with paypal and the seller didnt even contact them. I refunded the seller with their refund function and that was my mistake.
          That is interesting, so there is no safe solution , if you refund you fall in trouble and if you didn't you still fall in trouble.
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        • Profile picture of the author prian
          Originally Posted by JSThompson View Post


          Nope refunding money on paypal gets you in trouble with them too. I refunded two $1 payments to someone a few months back and the next day paypal decided my account would have to wait 21 days to get access to any money I make. The thing is I had never had a problem with paypal and the seller didnt even contact them. I refunded the seller with their refund function and that was my mistake.
          Seriously? even with a big profit paypal earned everyday? they limit your account because $1 refund?
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          • Profile picture of the author JSThompson
            Originally Posted by prian View Post

            Seriously? even with a big profit paypal earned everyday? they limit your account because $1 refund?
            Seriously. My account is limited because of $2 in refunds.
            From now on, money you receive will be temporarily held in a pending balance. To learn more, please read our Payment holds policy.

            That is in red on my paypal everytime I log in.
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  • Profile picture of the author johndetlefs
    I tend to pay for as much as I can with Paypal. I haven't done much selling through them, so I can't comment from the vendor side, but from a consumer perspective I don't like paying for recurring payments through anyone else but paypal, because I can shut them off with the click of a button if I have to.

    Not that I like getting refunds, but on the few occasions where I have had to, they've been pretty quick and responsive.
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  • Profile picture of the author stevenjacobs
    Banned
    They don't like you refunding they lose money out of there money system
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    • Profile picture of the author JSThompson
      Originally Posted by stevenjacobs View Post

      They don't like you refunding they lose money out of there money system
      Yeah lesson learned. Refund them by sending them money not using paypals refund function
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      • Profile picture of the author J Bold
        Originally Posted by JSThompson View Post

        Yeah lesson learned. Refund them by sending them money not using paypals refund function
        I'm not sure that's the lesson you should be learning.

        I have no idea why that occurred, but many have used paypal's refund feature and had no problems, whatsoever.

        I wonder if it could have had anything at all to do with it being a $1 transaction.

        Not sure why refunding somebody such a small amount would throw up a red flag but perhaps since you did two in quick succession, it did?
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  • Profile picture of the author rich8169
    Talking about the online payment providers, recently I've post a comparison of fees between Paypal, AlertPay and Moneybookers. So, just for sharing. Check it out below:

    IM Foundation: Online Payment Processing Providers : Paypal vs AlertPay vs Moneybookers

    Cheers!
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    • Profile picture of the author JSThompson
      Originally Posted by rich8169 View Post

      Talking about the online payment providers, recently I've post a comparison of fees between Paypal, AlertPay and Moneybookers. So, just for sharing. Check it out below:

      IM Foundation: Online Payment Processing Providers : Paypal vs AlertPay vs Moneybookers

      Cheers!

      Do you provide all 3 on your site or pick just one Rich?
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      • Profile picture of the author rich8169
        Originally Posted by JSThompson View Post

        Do you provide all 3 on your site or pick just one Rich?
        Hi JSThompson, in my post, I compiled a one-page JPG file for all 3 networks. It's kind of like one-page view tingy. Hope it helps.

        Cheers!
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    • Profile picture of the author Charles Jones
      I keep saying it over and over...get your own CC processing account. Screw PayPal. they want to be hard nosed, then fine...let them. I will use my own and then use Alert Pay or others.

      Just my opinion, but I ALWAYS have my own processor where I can control things.
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      • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
        Originally Posted by Charles Jones View Post

        I keep saying it over and over...get your own CC processing account. Screw PayPal. they want to be hard nosed, then fine...let them. I will use my own and then use Alert Pay or others.

        Just my opinion, but I ALWAYS have my own processor where I can control things.
        Charles, I like the idea of having your own payment system, but i guess unless you have a strong reputation, people will not go for it.

        People are used to have a third party that can guarantee their money.
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        • Profile picture of the author onSubie
          Originally Posted by onegoodman View Post

          People are used to have a third party that can guarantee their money.

          Believe me, a lot more consumers trust (and have heard of) Visa and MasterCard over PayPal.

          If anything, having your own Visa/MC processor appears more trustworthy than having a PayPal link.

          In fact, a lot of online shoppers prefer using a credit card and that is the reason PayPal offers a credit card option without needing to register for a PayPal account.

          Mahlon
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    • Profile picture of the author Aubaine
      Great article, and I just signed up for moneybookers :] Thanks!

      Originally Posted by rich8169 View Post

      Talking about the online payment providers, recently I've post a comparison of fees between Paypal, AlertPay and Moneybookers. So, just for sharing. Check it out below:

      IM Foundation: Online Payment Processing Providers : Paypal vs AlertPay vs Moneybookers

      Cheers!
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      • Profile picture of the author rich8169
        Originally Posted by Aubaine View Post

        Great article, and I just signed up for moneybookers :] Thanks!
        Hi Aubaine,

        Thanks for the kind words!

        Cheers.
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        • Profile picture of the author Brandon Huang
          Yeah, I think paypal should come up with better measures instead of shutting people's account down, like for instance maybe they should warn them, give notice, question them or have them verify and clarify a few information. They have quite bad customer service when I once approached them about a failed transaction (fast answers but answers are not relevant and lack in quality) so that was one bad experience. Paypal is very safe, I can tell you that but too safe that one screw up when signing up for their service (wrong name, typo in name) then your transaction can fail.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I just had my account "restricted". Sent money to my tech and that was all she wrote. But I just moved, so I figured it was because of the change in IP. They called it a "security" thing. They cleared it up in 2 days so no real harm done but it did put a jolt through my undies. I'm wondering if I want to release my next product through them or if I should see if there's a different resource I can use through RAP. Not liking what is going on. It should really be illegal to clamp down someone's account for 4 months. It's ludicrous that someone can hijack your money like that. I can see requiring XX% held for refund possibilities, but to just sieze your money? There's not a reason in the world they should be able to do that.
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    • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I just had my account "restricted". Sent money to my tech and that was all she wrote. But I just moved, so I figured it was because of the change in IP. They called it a "security" thing. They cleared it up in 2 days so no real harm done but it did put a jolt through my undies. I'm wondering if I want to release my next product through them or if I should see if there's a different resource I can use through RAP. Not liking what is going on. It should really be illegal to clamp down someone's account for 4 months. It's ludicrous that someone can hijack your money like that. I can see requiring XX% held for refund possibilities, but to just sieze your money? There's not a reason in the world they should be able to do that.
      It should be, but the problem everybody play with the TOS card.

      even if the TOS makes no sense. If you google paypal bad reviews, you will hear about people got their account restricted or limited for years. What can they do about it ? nothing. Honestly, if I were in their place i probably will sue even if that mean loosing money and my time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aubaine
    Paypal will always be a product of eBay, so I'm not surprised that they are accepted other forms of payment, because as it's been stated before, Paypal always falls secondary to eBay, because ultimately, that is the big money maker.
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    • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
      Originally Posted by Aubaine View Post

      Paypal will always be a product of eBay, so I'm not surprised that they are accepted other forms of payment, because as it's been stated before, Paypal always falls secondary to eBay, because ultimately, that is the big money maker.
      Actually you need to take another looks. Paypal is where they have growth and they are doing everything they can to hide the fact eBay is dying.
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  • Profile picture of the author Maddmula
    I Google'd "PayPal Alternatives" and this site came up PayPal Problems & PayPal Answers! haha.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dex88
    A friend of mine had his paypal account hacked by someone from another country a couple of months ago..... Paypal didn't do a good job in helping him, and the hacker was able to spend a thousand dollars from his account and sent it to different paypal accounts...
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  • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
    onSubie i have to disagree, Both PayPal & AlertPay provide the option to checkout without sign up.

    I hate to say it, but for a new website, i wouldn't trust a direct system and i would prefer to go a long with PayPal or AlertPay
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    • Profile picture of the author onSubie
      Originally Posted by onegoodman View Post

      onSubie i have to disagree, Both PayPal & AlertPay provide the option to checkout without sign up.

      I hate to say it, but for a new website, i wouldn't trust a direct system and i would prefer to go a long with PayPal or AlertPay
      You disagree that more people have heard of and trust Visa than PayPal??

      Mahlon
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by onSubie View Post

        You disagree that more people have heard of and trust Visa than PayPal??

        Mahlon
        I didn't post the original reply but I agree. I've done countless
        tests and found that people much prefer to use Pay Pal because
        they don't want to reveal their credit card info to an unknown
        merchant.

        With all due respect, I'm sure you're an honest person but it
        will be a cold day in hell before I give you my credit card info.
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  • Profile picture of the author JimmyR
    My only advice for Paypal is get out while you can.

    Once they lock accounts and what not, it is an absolute nightmare. It makes it horrible when 2/3 affiliate programs pay out with Paypal, so you almost can't get by without it. But I am seeing a gradual shift away, so hopefully we can 100% get away without them sometime soon...
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  • Profile picture of the author xxxJamesxxx
    I've been using them for years and never had problem with them. So that said and done, I will continue to do so.

    James Scholes
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    • Profile picture of the author fluffythewondercat
      Originally Posted by xxxJamesxxx View Post

      I've been using them for years and never had problem with them. So that said and done, I will continue to do so.
      People who've had their accounts locked or restricted by PayPal also never had a problem with them. Until the lock or restriction.

      I'll bet you don't do backups either, because you've never had a disk crash.

      fLufF
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  • Profile picture of the author s2n4life
    Iv never had any problems with paypal. I also have Paxum! I think Paypal is far superior than Paxum. Lower fees, free debit card that gives 1% cash back on purchases and free transfers to my bank. Paxum charges $50 for the debit card, $5 to transfer, and other fees that just "pop up."
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  • Profile picture of the author Nickname
    I've never had problems with PayPal - maybe it's because I don't withdraw my money, and didn't release my own product yet, so I never refunded anyone either.
    I just can't leave PayPal, even though I have a AlertPay account, they are used anywhere!
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  • Profile picture of the author cashtree
    Exactly why I posted this thread http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...right-now.html.
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  • Profile picture of the author clickfund
    paypal can be a pain. They suspended my account once
    after i told them was overseas, and they said all was fine. Then
    a couple weeks later - bang! Finally after many emails and calls got
    resolved. They need better measures in place 4 sure
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Here's a couple of threads on Paypal alternatives

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...at-you-do.html

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-payments.html

    I've heard of several AlertPay problems. 2C0 seems a good alternative and I've been accepted by them as well as Amazon Payments.
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  • Profile picture of the author lastreporter
    I have read quite a few complaints about PayPal on this forum, but I have not experienced any problems with the service as a seller. I use PayPal to sell products and services.

    But, I am not doing a great volume, so maybe that's why.

    I do not like PayPal's fee structure, but I guess they need to be paid too.

    What troubles me is that they are pretty much the accepted method of online payment as Google is the accepted search engine. Therefore, I am uneasy about depending solely on PayPal. I don't like monopolies.

    Perhaps in time, other services will become more accepted. But for now, it's PayPal for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author hanandaner
    I also face lots of issues with paypal recently with so much of restrictions on the account. The amount is auto withdrawn. Think about the fees that you are charged with every $5 you get from clients.
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  • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
    onSubie yes, i do trust PayPal more than visa when I buy things, because if i buy an item through paypal and don't get it I directly fill a claim and your money is back.

    This is not the case with Visa, they are not responsible for that, they would stop only a transaction that wasn't authorized by you. This is why AlertPay is more trustworthy online than Visa.

    fluffy good one I guess none of the people got their account lucked ever thought that it will, but when it get locked or banned with their money .... ooops
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  • Profile picture of the author ICCGAMES
    There's no doubt that PayPal is the clear leader. In my experience they care more about their users.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    I've always felt there were two big issues with Paypal: The risk of having your account locked and the risk of not using them, and suffering sales losses.

    I completely agree Paypal is a fine payment processor ....until something goes wrong. Then, from what I've read here and elsewhere, it's not clear what the outcome will be. You could be back up and running in a day or two, or be stuck for months waiting for your funds.

    However, the more I talk to marketers who've actually bothered to test, the more indications there are that using the other lesser-known payment processors can seriously affect sales. I'm thinking about one like AlertPay, for instance. That's a tradeoff that needs to be considered, too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Arjjun Sarja
    Banned
    Now a days , it makes me think paypal is no more a good option for payments , yeah , My client sent me 200$ today morning and i recieved 178$ after fees , lol..
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  • Profile picture of the author espe
    No I don't think so, Paypal has always been a time saver for me. Once I was about to open a 2 checkout account but it was too complicated to open and use, plus I have never been suspended. I guess it depends on how clean your business is.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonthewebmaster
    Banned
    I use Google Checkout and Alertpay.... paypal sucks a big one and still has about $2,000 of my money "frozen" and I am banned from using them ever again! LOL

    All of this because of what??? NOTHING! Not a single chargeback or refund request.

    I simply made too much money, too fast... and their "computers" think it "could be" fraud!

    This is what happens when large coroporations and their "computer systems" are running all of the world's transactions...
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    • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
      Originally Posted by jasonthewebmaster View Post

      I use Google Checkout and Alertpay.... paypal sucks a big one and still has about $2,000 of my money "frozen" and I am banned from using them ever again! LOL

      All of this because of what??? NOTHING! Not a single chargeback or refund request.

      I simply made too much money, too fast... and their "computers" think it "could be" fraud!

      This is what happens when large coroporations and their "computer systems" are running all of the world's transactions...
      I have to agree the automation is not perfect, I had many issues with Amazon because their system is Automated and their seller support will be awarded as #1 worst seller support in the word.

      If they suspect, they should display a message of warning to their support team to check what is going on and not suspend the account.

      By the way I am shocked that many IMers don't understand how PayPal is limiting their business if they really fully on it.

      Many countries were banned by PayPal and you have potential buyer or seller, how will you deal with them, if you are relaying only on PayPal ?
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
    Paypal works just fine for 99.999% of people out there. Why would they be in trouble?

    Their fees actually aren't really that high, if you are a Paypal Pro merchant. They are 2.2%.

    IM'ers should realize that big product launches, combined with somewhat high prices, combined with hype, combined with high expectations, and combined with a digital product is probably the worst nightmare for a payment processor. Who to believe?

    I sell physical products and have had 0 problems with paypal. If I have a chargeback, I provide the tracking number. It's simple. I've had FAR MORE problems with merchant accounts in the past.

    Realistically, paypal probably doesn't care too much if they lose your business unless you're doing decent volume. And if you're doing decent volume, they've assigned you a rep to make sure you don't get your account shut down.
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  • Profile picture of the author dudeontheweb
    Sellers Rate the Online Payment Services

    I came across this a few months ago, thought I would share it here.
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  • Profile picture of the author tumill
    As an online retailer I use a credit card processing company and paypal for my websites. This way I can satisfy customers who like paypal and satisfy customers who feel better not using it. It also helps to ensure that if one of those payment systems doesn't work for any reason the other is there for backup and my business doesn't stop.
    I've been using paypal for years now and never had problems with them. If you're nervous about using them just don't leave very much money in a paypal account, It's free to send your money to your bank account all you want...
    I have a friend who works for the paypal fraud department and the amount of fraud cases are staggering so I can see why they are a little trigger happy on the fraud issues.....
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  • Profile picture of the author Darren McClain
    I Have used paypal for over ten years now. I haven't had a problem with them..yet. I do know of other people having their accounts "frozen" for transactions that seemed suspicious.

    I do run a small e-bay business and buy off items all the time. I do not buy from someone who does not offer paypal. In addition I feel people buy from me because I do offer it as the main option.

    So far no complaints and I do like that I make 1% off my purchases and it is an easy way for me to keep up with how much I spend at the post office for shipping my e-bay items.

    Although because of this thread, I will be looking into the other alternatives.
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  • Profile picture of the author triojobss
    Banned
    Paypals fee's are pretty ridiculous if you are using it to run your service business.

    I have just started it and it is the small orders being effected most because Paypal are taking almost 1/3rd of that money.

    They must make thousands or more per day...
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    I wish that were so. PP is a pain. They are part of FEE BAY that unworderful company. I wonder about meg witman. Will HP survive. That is the question. Not sure on an answer. Citi talked about a PP killer, but it did not take off. Most people find PP as easy to use. That said, a new player could be goog, but their check out is in some ways even worse.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Kage
    Well, instead of paypal I sometimes use AlertPay.
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  • Profile picture of the author whatihave
    Banned
    I've used Paypal for years and haven't had a problem. But when I hear certain stories it does get me concerned that out of the blue, I'll experience something similar. Hopefully I won't.
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