Email Fails: Why Your Marketing Emails Don't Work on Me

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As I was going through my email this morning it struck me how lame some of the marketing emails were. Don't read this as a rant about what I don't like, I just wanted to point out what I think are the fatal flaws in them so others can avoid these mistakes.

The "fatal flaws" are the things that stop me from taking the action the marketer wants me to take. Of course, this is just my opinion, but I think these fatal flaws prevent a lot of people from doing whatever the email is trying to get us to do.

1. Assuming I'll take the time to read your entire email.
I often won't, and a lot of others won't either. In fact, I keep busy with my own projects, so a lot of times I'm looking for an excuse to delete your email. Don't waste my time with inane blather intended to build a relationship with me.

Oh my gosh! Did I just say that?

Yep. A lot of folks have the wrong idea about what building a relationship with a mailing list is all about. Here's a clue: be useful, be honest, keep my best interests in mind and let that guide your actions.

The idea is to earn trust, not recruit your next best friend.

2. Asking the wrong kind of question.
This is also a copywriting lesson ... if you want me to keep reading, don't start your email with a question I can easily say "no" to. An email I got today opened with a question similar to this, "Are you unhappy with your marketing efforts?"

Nope, delete. That's all I read of it. I win!

When you ask questions, the idea is to ask questions that get your reader to agree with you, not to disagree. Instead of asking if someone is unhappy with a certain result, ask if they'd like to improve a certain result.

The difference may seem like niggling, but the impact is notable.

3. If you're going to tell a story, make sure it isn't boring.
Yes, telling a story can be good, but most of the story-form emails I get suck. They seem to be telling a story for the sake of telling a story because they are not a good segue into the offer.

If you use a story, make it relevant, and make it interesting. Use descriptive words that create the mental pictures and feelings you want to evoke.

4. Don't be yet another copy-and-paste expert.
If all you're doing is copying and pasting a pre-written sales message and sending it you disqualify yourself as an authoritative referrer. You will not be rewarded with an affiliate commission from me because you took one minute to copy, paste, and send an email.

If you want to earn a commission from me, then you really do have to earn it. By that I mean try the product so you can actually tell me what really like about it.

You want to know a secret? There aren't many perfect products, so tell me about the drawbacks too. Chances are if I want the benefits of the product I'll overlook the drawbacks if they aren't major deal breakers, and your honest assessment makes you more real and your words more believeable.

Do you know what that does? It builds trust.

You may think your readers don't know when you copy and paste what you send, but a good many of us do. We get the same email, often word for word, from a half dozen or more other marketers. We know when you're playing us, which leads to my last point...

5. Don't insult my intelligence.
As Carl Sagan used to say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Even the dumbest guy in the room can often tell when someone is trying to play him for a sucker.

Those were my thoughts as I went through the marketing emails I received today. I'm not telling you how to run your business, but if you practice marketing like that, you might want to rethink your approach.

Lastly, feel free to add your own reasons to this list as to why you're unresponsive to certain emails, but don't just turn this thread into a rant. Explain why it (whatever IT is) doesn't work for you so others can learn.

We are here to learn from each other, right?
#main internet marketing discussion forum #email #emails #fails #marketing #work
  • ahh - the first time I've seen a thread title like this, and actually agreed with it!
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  • Great post, Dennis! So many miss the point of relationship building. They think it means you need to send candy and flowers. Want to build a relationship? Be honest. You don't have to shower the reader with gifts.
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  • Fantastic tips! There are alot of people who could really benefit from them!

    I especially like the one about story-telling. Sure, there is a time and a place for a really great story that drives home your point. However, those times and places are rare. The last thing you want to do is make your email all about you, when it should be all about your readers and how you're working to help/benefit them.
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    • Glad you agreed. I don't see much point in ranting unless there is a lesson with it that might help someone down the road.

      Thanks. Of course, that's not to say you should never give your reader a freebie, but how we go about it and what we give can make a huge difference in how we're perceived.

      A good example is what I'm doing later today. It was my anniversary this past weekend, so I'm giving my readers an anniversary gift. It's the first 18 pages of a 50+ page ebook. Then I'll offer them a discount off the regular price. With the quality demonstrated in a tangible way, many who are interested in the topic (and have trust in the quality because they've seen it) will buy the full product.

      It was a really lame story that inspired this thread. I happen to like the marketer who sent it, but after reading three paragraphs I couldn't read another word. Story-form emails may be the most risky unless you really know how to grab and hold your readers interest. Most don't, IMO.
  • Problem is and time and time again I have to explain this to customers:

    People don't have time to read long emails
    People are not interested in YOU until you created trust,credibility and value

    Recently I worked with a real estate company, they wanted long 700 word emails, they wanted to educate them

    This is what I told them

    When it comes to emailing. When I say that people don't have the time to read a long 700 word email, its true to think that they will... no offense, is fooling yourself.

    You see the BIGGEST CHALLENGE that email marketing today faces is JUST GETTING PEOPLE TO OPEN an email. Never mind read it!

    In fact, before even opening, it’s getting it delivered! Many isps filter and have certain words marked to set of their spam filters.

    As you probably already know…People are slaughtered every day with emails from countless places and so the next challenge is getting it read

    Now when they are dealing with one realtor before they sign anything I guarantee you they are dealing with up to 10 other realtors

    That is why the emails have to be short and sweet and straight to the point. Beyond 300 words and you will lose them as it’s no longer an email it’s a long article.

    People don’t have time for articles at the best of times ( that’s why video, audio are good ), let alone long winded emails.


    Third, because of the topic “ Real Estate “, there is only a limited amount that can be said before you end up rehashing the same stuff, so keeping emails short and straight to the point is vital for getting them to take action.

    If you are looking to educate them, email is not the place to do it. Educating on what you do and who you are should be done in person ( selling yourself ) or via a BLOG or area of articles on a website and then email is ONLY used as means of contact, delivery of FREE stuff, news/change, urgent message and reminding and urging them to take action

    Educating should be done in a blog or your main site and then the email being short, gives them a STRONG reason why they should ( walk away from facebook, twitter, tv, movies, emails from friends all the umpteen things that you are competing for their attention with etc ) to read an article on buying or selling

    It comes back to the dilemma that all people face ( people are slaughtered with email daily and they don't have the time and if they do it has to either give them something, entertain them or people just dont bother opening it.

    Real estate simply is not entertainment it’s just part of the process of what people need to do to get what they need ) so it’s vital that emails be short, focused ONLY on what you want them to do.. i.e phone me, email or click through to site.

    And it’s after that point of clicking… you educate through articles, blogs, videos, audios, webinars in person or on the phone

    Try to do it in an email and especially on the topic of Real Estate and you will lose them, I guarantee you that!

    So if you must educate them. My suggestion is you have someone create X amount of Articles add them to your site, then use the NEXT batch of 12 emails to get people over to the site to read them as I can assure you having done this now for 11 + years and tested all manner of long, short and style based emails. Long emails lose people.

    Add to that long, boring emails and it’s like death to a business’s bottom line.

    The problem is not “ Educating” its ….“ How “ and “ Where” and “ When” you should be educating them.

    And as mentioned above educating is for articles, blogs, videos, audios, webinars in person or on the phone NOT email.

    And definitely NOT email if you want to get read and get them to take action.

    If educating is the goal, email should ONLY be used to drive them to the blog ( article ), article, video, webinar or audio ( nothing more )

    Remember people are saying to them “what does this have to do with me?, let me get back to facebook, an email from a friend, tv show, newspaper, book etc )

    Remember and this is the hardest thing for clients to get. People are not interested in you. I know it sounds harsh but it’s key.

    It's like someone going to buy nails. People are not interested in nails, they are interested in what they can do with the nails, what it will give them, how fast and easy it will be and cost effective.

    They are interested in getting... where they want to go... and getting what they want. if you need to expand on your 20 years of experience ( even though the email does say you have established trust and a network through the years ), allow your bio on your website to do that.

    This gives people the OPTION if they need to see that by using one of the next batch of emails to drive them over to it for reading it and it doesn’t lose those who don’t care about how long you have been in business. ( and there is lots of people who don’t )
    Email is not the place for a long winded bio as you will lose them, its dry, its dull and its irrelevant to what they want. All they are thinking is " Is he available?, how does he market houses " and " how much is he going to charge us vs a realtor down the road " that’s it!

    Remember as well people are very sceptical and ANYONE in ANY business can say they have been at something for years and years, people take that with a grain of salt. And in your business, having dealt with realtors myself when I have needed to sell my last 4 houses.

    The only thing that was on my mind when I got an email was those 3 things above

    In fact…

    If I got an email from a realtor and it was 700 words ( rare that I did ) I would be scanning it to find out where the person gets to the point

    i.e As all MOST people are thinking is…

    Why are you contacting me?

    And what do you want from me?

    And if you can’t answer that FAST, they will click away. It’s a simple as that.

    Think of it this way …. Every time an email arrives in someone’s inbox, its infringing on their life.

    The goal with effective email is simple:

    1. Get it open (create curiosity through subject line and first line)
    2. Get it Read (straight to the point, here is what this is about and keep it short and sweet)
    3. Get them to take action (tell them what to do next i.e. phone, go to video, article, email-)

    AND DO IT FAST!

    I assure you at least 80% of businesses don't get past 1 and 2 because they are not aware of what it takes to get it open, get it read and get them to take action. They get trapped in spam filters, they don’t create curiosity in their headings, they don’t get to the point and think it’s important to give people long winded emails thinking that they will read it and they need to know it ( most won’t read long emails and if they need to know, they probably already do or can search it out on google or your site )

    So to sum it, as I said at the start

    People don't have time to read long emails

    People are not interested in YOU until you created trust,credibility and value

    When they are interested in YOU, get to the point fast as you are competing with lots of distracting things they have going on in their life
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    • Jon, I'm sure there were many great points in your 1300+ word post, but I don't have time to read it...
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  • The irony was born from his passion about the topic, I'm guessing. Jon did make some good points. His summary of his own post makes his main points more succinctly:
    People don't have time to read long emails

    People are not interested in YOU until you created trust,credibility and value

    When they are interested in YOU, get to the point fast as you are competing with lots of distracting things they have going on in their life
  • On a related point, one of the things that gets me to
    begin to tune-out of a list owners messages is when
    they...

    Mis-represent the Sender-Subscriber Relationship

    Some list owners come over all gushing like they're
    your best friend.

    Guess what?

    They're not!

    So quit the 'Hey buddy' BS and other crap that tries to
    portray a depth of relationship that simply isn't there.

    To me, the 'Hey buddy' line and other similar tags come
    across as insincere.

    Instead, when you write your e-mails, imagine that the
    person you're writing to is right in front of you. How
    would you talk to them? What degree of formality or
    informality would you use?

    Go with that and quit the buddy sh!t.

    Dedicated to mutual success,

    Shaun
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  • I hate it when the email starts... dear friend. or even using my name when they obviously don't know me.

    I hate it even more when the email says it knows what I'm thinking.

    Spam is spam, even if you have subscribed and it's the quickest way to get me to unsubscribe after I just subscribed.

    I think the acid test is to read the email as though someone sent it to you. If you don't believe it or like it, DON'T SEND IT!
    • [3] replies
    • Yes, that often comes across as insincere, to put it nicely. A very few people can get away with writing like that, and then only to part of their audience. Those who do it risk alientating their readers.

      Excellent test. I don't do it quite like that, but I do have my own way of evaluating how my words might be construed.
    • This is the silliest thing I've read today. Spam, by definition, is unsolicited, meaning that you did not give the sender permission to contact you.

      Though I generally don't use the "Dear friend" introduction, I have used it before. Though I may not personally know all my subscribers, I genuinely care about them. Their wants, their hopes, their dreams, etc. Is it really that wrong to write "Dear friend" if I'm coming from a place of affection?

      After all, that person opted into my list because they wanted to learn something from me. In trying to build a relationship with my readers, I give them good information, free reports, videos, and pod casts. Now, if the content sucks, you should definitely unsubscribe, but I'm seeing a big disconnect with someone unsubscribing just because they used the "Dear friend" introduction.

      RoD

      @ Dennis, per usual, solid post my man.
    • I'm curious. I thought the point of doing especially the latter was to personalize
      it to your reader, something like "Hey, this person addressed me by my name! I
      find that so cool!".

      I guess you're the exception rather than the "rule"?

      Two words: Paul Myers.
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  • Great post Dennis!

    I wanted to add a little tip that involves these two points...

    I KNOW some people can't be bothered with long emails because I'm one of them. So to help this - I try to put a "skip my story and see the goods here" link towards the top of the email...

    This also helps with your third point - because sometimes I may think the story is awesome but it could bore the socks off of someone else. So this has been my compromise...

    Hope this will help someone
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    • Coby, you are right. But I have a point. Everyone will never love your story. Some will be bored. But still I found most successful marketers writing at least 100 words and summarize the subject of their link.

      I've never got bored with them. And I believe that's one of their success secrets.
      • [1] reply
  • This is a great thread about emails and I get thousands every day of which I may open one or two. I just look at the subject lines, and the majority are the same old boring sales line. Yesterday I cleared out one of my mail boxes deleting all but one which said
    North Borneo Railway : Full Steam Ahead on 4th July 2011
    Now that is of interest because I have been waiting 3 years to ride on the old steam train, unfortunately I no longer live in Malaysia. The 12,000 mails deleted were selling snake oil, Rolex watches, fishing for my personal details etc

    I think people need to think much more about titles, I also send out emails to my subscribers using titles such as marketing your business tips from David Ogden, so they can see who its from and what it is about
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    • I know someone else that does this. Right at the top of the message will be an "in a hurry" link, then the go into the story. I've never clicked it without reading some of the email, but that darn link sometimes makes me want to read the email, depending on the subject line.

      The subject line certainly makes a difference. The "copy and paste" experts I mentioned in item four often just copy and paste the subject line too. When you have 5 or 10 emails from different people, all with the same subject line, it pretty much ensures all will be deleted without being opened.
  • I love it. So many people advise building a relationship with your list, which is fine, but lots of marketers (even ones that have really good, interesting products that captivate me for the entire length of time it takes to read their product) send long, boring stories via email that I don't give a crap about.

    I still buy whatever they're promoting based on my past experiences with their products, but NOT from their lame (IMHO) email marketing technique.
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  • True.

    Thought I'd share a recent 'story email' I enjoyed putting together
    AND many on my list enjoyed reading!

    All success
    Dr.Mani
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    • Are there also a few whose story emails you don't read all the way through because they're just too boring?

      I cut the story from the quote to keep this post short, but that story is in a class above most of them. You've been around as long as I have Dr. Mani, I know you've seen your share of boring stories. Thanks for providing a good example for reference.
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    • Sadly, I find Wodehouse tedious. And so I tuned out right there. Might be best not to assume everyone enjoys fussy English authors, even if you do.

      As much as I enjoy Jane Austen novels, I doubt this crowd wants to have "It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife" inflicted upon them...

      fLufF
      --
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  • Excellent post Dennis.

    My pet peeve is those pre-canned affiliate emails that start off: "I was just chatting with my buddy John on Facebook, and he's agreed to let me offer you this great deal." Then you get the same email the next day from someone else.

    Unsub ... unsub ...
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    • Great post.

      One thing I noticed everybody uses the same kind of "template" for their email with the same link multiple times on the page and I must tell you if you're trying to sell something don't do that because it often look very CB-ish affiliate pre-made emails to me and I simply dismiss it. (of course unless I know it's from someone I "know" is'nt gonna send me CB launches offers or things like that and aside the fact that my vision works properly so I don't need multiple links, I won't miss it , even if it's a bitly shortened link..)


      And regarding the usefulness of the emails, I like when people send me case studys, exciting underground tactics, interesting webinars and things that actually HELP me because it's what I was looking for in the first place .

      Anyway I must run an "audit" soon to clean out a bit of my lists subscribes because I hate having alot of emails to read and Having 3 emails one is mostly for the "lists" and sometimes I get 20+ emails in a night.
  • Dennis,

    Great post bring with it some excellent points (from all) - Haven't got the time to read it all now, but am definitely going to bookmark this one for my next coffee break.

    (I think much the same of long emails as I do many "long posts" or "long sales letters" or "long WSOs" - )

    If they don't grab me right away they don't get read.

    Paul
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  • Lots of great points here. I am wondering if anyone can post a sample email that they consider to be well written?
  • Here's a little tidbit from the other side of the fence as well.

    If your list isn't reading your emails, maybe you have the wrong people on your list.

    Just a thought, but you know, if your list members:

    - Don't have time to read your email,
    - Don't give the right answers to your questions,
    - Find your stories boring, and
    - Think you insult their intelligence...

    Maybe it's not so much that you're writing the wrong emails, but that you have the wrong list.

    Just getting any people you can get on your list has never been the goal in listbuilding. The goal is to find the right people, and then get them on your list.
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    • lol - I get lots of those. It's funny how one person can have so many friends who they have the exact same conversation with --- it's deja vu all over again.
  • Banned
    Brilliant post. I'm on so few email lists because I do unsubscribe. Got another one.

    Bait and Switch: Don't tell me the list is just for product updates and then blast the hell out of my inbox with affiliate offers every day. A lot of product owners do this, and I end up unsubscribing and probably end up not getting an update if one is actually ever offered.
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    • Valid points, Dennis.

      The phenomenon isn't unknown to me, because I was also a victim of such kind of 'email marketing' before. Now, I only smile on the various lame attempts.

      Authors of described emails forget, which was effective in six years ago, that is difficult to press people's throat today. People have become much more sophisticated now. So, the defense mechanisms developed as well.

      I class incoming emails into 3 categories:

      I.) I know the sender, so open it.

      II.) Subject grabs my interest, maybe open it.

      III.) Delete them, without opening.

      If someone want I open read his email, then his subject line must be short, concise, frank and hype free. Otherwise he has no chance.

      Thank you for bringing the topic up.

      Take care,

      Sandor
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    • I think somebody did actually do an update once, can't remember who though.
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    • This, more than anything else is my pet peeve here on the forum. I can't tell you how many WSOs i've bought that force me into an autoresponder for "updates" and then I get that marketers version of "WSO of the day".

      It's a real pain because even though I don't want to get the spam, i also don't want to miss out on an update.

      Most times I opt out, which is a shame, because many of the WSO's that i've bought are pretty good value and the marketer could have established a long term relationship if they'd taken better care.
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    • This is an excellent point as always.

      Ironically I just unsubscribed from a poster on this thread today. 2 emails on any given day? Are you serious? Practice what you preach.

      The key to relationships as I see it, is based on what expectations you set from the start.

      If you bombard with promotions then you reap what you sow.

      I like and use the idea of simply updating them every time I post on my blog. Short and sweet and if they get value, then there is a good chance that they actually look out for your emails. Duh.

      So if you promise one thing and then deliver something else, then you're set to fall.

      On the other hand, keep wowing them and you'll be surprised.

      Sal
  • Maybe I'm on all the wrong lists, I think it's about impossible to get my attention through email anymore. Matter of fact, I think it's pretty much impossible to get my attention for any product anymore.

    Even though I've never been "burned" by the industry or really even ripped off, I consider myself to be extremely jaded when it comes to IM products.
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    • For what it's worth, the topic was why those emails I cited don't work on ME, and the reason I'm getting them is because I've bought a product from the sender, so these are buyers lists. While there may be cases where your examples apply, this isn't one of them unless you consider a buyers list the wrong kind of list.

      Good example. I've actually taught this method of email sending, only I explain not to send stand alone offers to this kind of list. Instead, include an offer when you send out free updates (and make sure the updates are worthwhile and not just an excuse to send an offer out). If someone gets a free update or upgrade to a product they've bought from you, that generally puts them in a very receptive mood. By including a new offer, especially one that's related and also comes with free upgrades, in my experience, you'll have a high conversion rate and virtually NO complaints.

      I understand that. It doesn't necessarily have to be IM products we're talking about though. These "fatal flaws" as I called them could apply to marketers in any niche.
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  • As pertaining to the constant bombardment of emails (many of them exactly the same from different marketers), I quickly grew weary of the "grab my attention" headlines and amazing offers. I simply dropped off every list I was on and life has been much better since. I highly recommend going cold turkey and beating the addicition of opting-in....
    • [1] reply
    • Interesting take on it. I wonder how many people consider themselves addicted to opting in to mailing lists, versus say, being on the lists because they bought a product from someone, or are studying marketing tactics, or other reasons?
  • Very useful thread! I have a lot to learn about email marketing and all this definitely helps. Even though I'm a competent Web and print copywriter, emails are a different animal probably because they must be opened to be viewed.

    From my experience, the most important thing to start the relationship off is to build a brand of trust and sharing of useful information *first*. Sell later.
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    • Jason, email is different, but many of the principles are the same or similar to copywriting. Get the reader's attention right away. Use short, easy to read sentences and paragraphs. Holding their interest during transitions, and so forth. Since you understand copywriting, I'm guessing it will be a relatively easy transition for you.
  • This is such a awesome thread - learnt so many mistakes I have previously done. And yes, if thinking it from another angle, I wouldn't open that either.

    It's not about building relationship but it's all about building trusts in between.
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  • Useful info ty dennis. Im new to email marketing.
  • A-friiiiiiiiiiiiiickkkkiiiiin-Men. crap comes in everyday, and some think they get away with it... but really, even if i know you're the shady affilliate all you ever do is pitch me with "Earth SHATTERING" emails, i'll even give you a chance... Not to LISTEN to you. You've already lost that privaledge... No, im now to trying to vouch for you, before i write your name off... forever.

    I've learned alot about different personas and styles and most of them i learn what NOT to do.
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  • @Shane and Dave, some people don't like the personalization, but in my experience the majority do. I write a newsletter and offer it in a personalized format and a non-personalized format. Most people opt for the personalized format. One lady told me it was "creepy" once, but most people like to see their name. Be careful not to overdo it though. Do it too many times and it looks like you're trying too hard. I only use a person's name once or twice in my newsletter or any mailing.

    @Sarge, learning what not to do is important too. Keeps us from finding out the hard way by making all the mistakes ourselves.
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    • Banned
      Great stuff but what doesn't work for you may work for others. I just think that Internet marketers are wiser to the tricks of email marketing and have their defensive mechanisms already in place.
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  • Interesting post here! I'm learning how to right my emails short and sweet!
  • This is the key aspect to e-mail marketing. As I read so many e-mail whereby I just bin them straight away as I know they were just thrown up real quick. Building an relationship can only be established by appearing to be on the same page or being in a mutual agreement.
  • Great, Very Useful Tips about E-mail Marketing. It really gives me something to think about!
  • I believe that yes, building a relationship with a list is important. But not in the e-mails to the list, do it back on your blog/site or in your e-books etc that's when they are going to give you more time. When someone opens their e-mail folder to see what they've got they are giving themselves a few minutes to do just that. They aren't looking for their new best friend etc..

    Great post Dennis, pain felt by all i'm sure.
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  • It seems to me there is recent trend from the affiliates of WSO-Pro that have all gone to the same school of "tell a long, heart string pulling, personal story" each and every day. This includes the subject line. It works the first couple of times but then...

    Guess what happens when I see this - I call on Zesus to ZAP the e-Mail.

    Come on guys, buy the product your recommending, point out the pros and cons and a specific reason you think it might help me. You then earn the right to call me friend and keep me on your list.

    Ken

    The Old Geezer
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    • Hi Ken,

      I understand what you say. Yes, it may be a trend nowadays, you got such kind of affiliate emails. You have an impression, like these unimaginative emails would be poured to your inbox from an assembly line.

      Copy - paste; copy - paste;.......

      Ken, your last two sentences explain why these emails fail. If you buy a product, study it, use it in your business, then you know the advantages and disadvantages of that.

      So, you'll be able to compile a good subject line, and I may consider opening your email. Furthermore, you'll be able to demonstrate me in the body, why I need to consider to buy that product.

      Of course, it doesn't hurt if you know my exact needs.

      Without these, we won't be friends, and you cannot convince me to buy.

      All the best,

      Sandor
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    • So true, but I don't mind if someone doesn't try a product as long as they don't pretend they have. I had somewhat refreshing email the other day where the marketer said he just bought the product, read it, but hadn't tried it. He said it was well written and he learned some useful things even if he without trying out the methods the product taught. I went and looked at the product and decided it wasn't for me, but at least he had a shot by being honest.
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  • I usually feel it's basically impossible for marketing to work on me, even if it's something I want. I just want raw information, and prices.

    I often wonder what kind of people are actually susceptible to marketing, especially on the internet where the first thing I tell old people I'm helping with computers is "never click on ads!".
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    • Blind emails with lots of CLICK HERE NOW links in them are difficult for me to read and if I get a bunch of them from a particular marketer, I sometimes unsubscribe but usually don't. I just don't read them anymore.

      I have written some like that and it turns out that the CTR is better and I make better sales when I tell what the product actually is.

      I have also kind of stopped paying attention to subject lines or product names that are in the annihilator vein. I have enough of my own testosterone, thank you, I don't need to "make Google come crawling to me like a whimpering pup" to feel OK about myself.
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    • I have only very recently got inolved in IM. But yes, I have always been very anti 'hard sell' etc.

      I may respond to a business like email that clearly says what it is selling, the price etc. But will just delete anything that starts off with a 'how this changed my life' story, or 'I have a secret to share with you' or any sensational stuff.

      I trust calm, professional things. Not hyped up stuff. Always have, always will.
  • Excellent post, Dennis!

    A lot of good points have been made, and it's hard for me to add much to the original post. Ken Leatherman's post made me realize that a lot of these techniques are being used by those with the "slash and burn" mentality.

    What I mean is that they latch onto something that supposedly "works" and they will use it mercilessly...until they realize it's not working well enough. Then they will move on to the next "technique" and slash and burn their way through that one.

    The funny thing is that if they would take the 1st post in this thread to heart they wouldn't have to slash and burn, instead they would make more sales and be able to get nice and comfy right where they are.

    It's just so much easier to stop hustling and to start properly follow proven principles.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    • Slash and burn is a good description for some of the "techniques" that are used. Something to consider when using slash and burn is that you will lose list members faster so you have to keep finding ways to not only grow your list, but to fill the gap because of the unsubscribers.
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  • Fred, even the thought of using some of these emails for comic relief says a lot about quality of the emails, IMO. Good post.
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  • Very informative post, thanks Dennis.
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    • Good stuff Dennis.

      Its funny, when I go to the news stand or book store, ( I think they still have those though they may go the route of the Barber shop ), I open the magazine with anticipation to see if there is something worth to buy or something to further my interest and question what I need to buy or attain to get to my interest faster.

      But when I check emails, I consciously and/or subconsciously have my double barreled out like its hunting season, I LOOK, FIRST, to see who gets nuked and fast.

      The only guys that can have flaws in their email like long and boring and such are people who bat close to a thousand on recommended products that I bought...., so in truth, the TRUST factor, which has elements of competence and honesty, can usually supercede some apparent flaws in email marketing.

      But here is the thing.., I can't recall just now, but there may be 3 or 4 marketers that fit my email marketing experience of what I stated above, and that number may be just a bit too generous, still, at that.


      The 13th Warrior
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  • Another long thread of marketers complaining about marketing.

    These advice means nothing if your target audience is NOT
    experience marketers. Most people here are sensitive to
    these issues because you already know the "tricks" that
    are used. But they work for fresh eyes who don't spend
    all day in the IM world.

    You are NOT your customer. So if your customers
    are NOT experienced Warrior marketers then these
    advice means nothing.

    -Ray Edwards
    • [3] replies
    • Just saw another lame trick I forgot I have seen every now and then....,

      .....person sends you their email pitch, then has a 2 to 4 page long "blank" space before you get to the bottom to the "unsubscribe" link...., it was clicked anyway.


      Another lame trick is in order to unsubscribe, you have to physically type in your browser some address to go to some website or page to unsubscribe, or write out an email to unsubscribe or something lame like that thinking that people do not want to take the time to do that and would simply delete it, and that "before" they get enough gumption to actually go thru the process of unsubscribing, that the emailer is going to "catch" them with just the right offer..., I usually just "block sender" and be done with it.


      The 13th Warrior
    • Yeah. Only marketers would fail to respond to an overly-long and boring story that asks the wrong question and insults your intelligence. The rest of the world eats that crap up.
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    • Excellent point!

      Ray, did you even read my post, or did you just read the bold parts and assume it was another rant? The commentary had lessons about the points in bold, and I specifically asked people not to turn the thread into a rant. Of course, in order to set up the lesson I had to point out the flaw first.

      The lessons apply to any niche, not just IM, so you're wrong about that, too. Do you think people outside of IM like to be played for a fool? See Caliban's reply to you in post #67 for more on that. And besides, plenty of people here do market to others in the IM niche, or try to, and there's nothing wrong with giving them some tips either.

      Maybe you should let others judge what has meaning for them. Your pronouncement that the advice means nothing is actually what means nothing.

      There's a lot of copycatting in this industry. What worked for one person gets used by others, often not near as successfully because they are missing part of the ingredients. Besides the copycatting, people also teach tactics that sometimes don't work, don't work as explained, used to work but don't anymore, or work for some but not others due to the varying level of skills we all have.

      As Michael Oksa said, some practice slash and burn marketing. Theire tactics work on someone early, but they grow weary of them and unsubscribe. These folks have a high turnover rate, so maybe you're at that point where it's time to leave a few behind.
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  • I think people new to list marketing will keep making these mistakes because they're so easy to make.

    A lot of people are stuck on "how to build a relationship" with a list. And I kind of agree with Ray - what works in IM might not work in other niches and vice versa. But, a general principle of "do unto others,etc" works well.

    I make a lot of mistakes with everything. But the one thing I try to do these days is provide value to my list.

    Yes, I've read the definition of value for an IM list being targetted offers, good prices, the chance to get in first, etc. From an IM "guru". I don't think that's right - I don't want to get offers every day and nothing else.

    And yes, I do write long-ish emails. But my CTR rates are pretty good, so I guess I must be doing something right. I don't have much stories (I think they're boring!) but most of my emails are tips on productivity or earning more, so I hope they're useful.

    An earlier poster said it's about trust. I think that's what it boils down to. I may not be best friends with my list, but I see them as people I respect and I'm not trying to just strong-arm them into buying stuff!
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    • Long emails are fine if they are interesting, and it sounds like yours are if your CTR is good. The "fail" for long emails is when they are not interesting. One way an email is boring is because of the writing style, of course, but another way that writers often don't realize is if there is too much repetition. That's how many emails become long, because the writer says the same thing in slightly different ways over and over. They take a sharp point and hammer it dull.

      Think about it, if I'm going to be impressed by something, will I become more impressed through repetition or less impressed each time. Unless they are making new points each time, each repetition is going to be less impressive. Hit me over the head 4-5 times with the same thing and it's not likely to impress me any longer. In many cases, the thing they are pushing becomes weaker at that point.

      @ 13th - Kind of funny you and CD had such similar thoughts, but it emphasizes the point better. I do the same thing at the post office, the junk mail never makes it out the door with the legitimate mail.
  • TOTALLY agree with every single point! It really annoys me to see several emails from different people with the same copy (the ol' copy and paste trick)...and unfortunately for them, THEY ALL GET DELETED without me even bothering to see what they are talking about just based on that mistake alone!

    My inbox is precious and I, like you, am often looking for an excuse to delete...or even unsubscribe so be careful about giving me one!!
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  • These days, every morning i put a tick in the "all emails" box and then i specifically untick the emails that I want to read and then just delete all the rest.

    My point being, these days unless you've got a good previous history of sending useful emails and/or have an incredibly good headline, the default is delete.
  • Great Post. Reading different comments definitely a good learning post and we can all learn more. Thanks
  • What about subject line. 99% of emails never get as far as opened with me.
  • Dennis - I agree with you so much about repetition! This is one of my pet peeves too

    I read each email I write over and over again, trying to delete as much of it as I can without losing the meaning or the vibe Learning to delete is definitely one of the most important copywriting skills!

    @mypctechs - Writing good headlines is a different skill all in itself, definitely critical but also easily separable from the actual email copy.
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    • Thanks for reminding me, Ash, I had one other thing I wanted to add to my reply to you but forgot. You just mentioned it . . . reading your email over a time or two only takes a few minutes and goes a long way toward weeding out the repetition. It's easy to add a little flavor to it at the same time to liven up the boring parts.

      The difference between an average email and a great email is often just a matter of editing it once or twice. Great writers are usually re-writers. They don't settle for the first draft.

      @ mypctechs - like Ash said, the subject line is a whole 'nother thing, probably betters served in a thread of it's own. Actually, there have been several threads about subject lines. If you use the search function you can probably find a few of them.
  • Awesome post. Really made me reflect on what I have been doing wrong.
  • The reason why they fail is that people can smell the stench of their desperation!

    Some guy just emailed me a weird subject line like "I know what's wrong with you" (or something similar) which I deleted and then unsubscribed from the list.

    Creepy stalker language makes me feel icky.
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    • I now feel compelled to write the creepiest stalkery subject line I can, and see what my list does when I send it.

      So far, I am leaning toward "I can see your underpants."

      Not sure what the body of the email would say, though. I'll keep working on this.
  • Nice tip, if many Internet Marketers realised there is someone at the other end of that email message just like them who joined the mailing list because they were looking for useful tips, alot of email newsletters wouldn't end up in the junk mail or trash
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  • Magnificent post Dennis. "Asking the wrong question" is a whole new idea. Never thought about it. Thanks a lot.
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  • Great post Dennis! I especially liked this...

    In just that one sentence you give us a very important email marketing goal.
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  • [DELETED]
  • @ Caliban, creepiest stalker lines I can think of:

    Every move you make, I'm watching you....

    I'm watching what you're doing

    I'm watching you and I'm not really happy with what you're doing, so I'll .... (?)


    Let us know how your stalker email is going
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    • It's not even affiliate offers with this that bother me. I recently purchased several products that would subscribe me to two lists (a normal list and an "updates only" list). One list-owner even went on to say that he would make the updates easy to spot by marking product update emails in a special way. Guess what! I've received a "product update" almost every day! Actually, every single message has been attempts at various upsells, but they all have the "special update-only" markings. That just proved to me that the marketer was dishonest and i unsubscribed. If they had not had the special "update" markings on upsell emails, I would have actually stayed on the list.


      So true! I'm still on a mailing list that doesn't interest me at all simply because I ordered a gift for my Mother 2-3 years ago from the company. I haven't unsubscribed because I may decide to order something else for her someday, but I don't open any of the emails. Thankfully, they only send out monthly updates, rather than daily/weekly sales pitches. Honestly, if you're in a more "common" niche (that site has mostly household goods), bombarding people will push them away. However, I am keeping track of that company because what I bought from them was exactly what i wanted and they don't annoy me with an over abundance of messages.
  • Ray, it didn't seem to me like I got personal, but you twice declared my advice meant nothing. That seemed kind of personal to me, but maybe you didn't mean it that way. That set the tone for my responses, though.

    Sure Ray, no hard feelings. I was responding all throughout this thread according to the tone I felt you set in your first post. You want to discuss the issues politely, that's cool. What issues are left though? I thought I addressed the issues you had.

    As far as I know, it came down to you saying people outside of IM don't analyze their email, and I responded with this:

    Did you want to discuss that further, or are we just going to call it a stalemate? Maybe that's not the issue you're talking about? Where do you want to go from here, Ray?
    • [1] reply
    • A lot of these emails seem to miss the basic logic of a customer, imho.

      If I have just bought an expensive piece of software, for example, it is no good the company sending me details of their other expensive software, I am not going to buy it this month. Period. They would be far better sending me hints and tips on how to use the one I have for now and saving the 'and here is something else you might like to try' for a later date. Or just referring subtly to their other products 'Your X software can also integrate perfectly with our Y software too, of course'.

      I have just had the same thing from a well-known camera company. I bought a camera. Logically I am not going to want to buy another camera for a while, am I? So why did they then start sending me emails about their other models? This is totally pointless, and of course I unsubscribed. They COULD have sent ones about accessories for the one I had, that would have made more sense. But even then, I have a budget (like most people), why on earth can't marketers consider this?

      Being offered things I can not afford right now is just annoying, so I will unsubscribe. A bit less greed and a more subtle approach would keep me interested in their products, and make me more likely to buy A BIT LATER ON.

      I realise that upsell is considered lucrative, but it can also just annoy someone totally. If you have just got some of my money, at least do me the courtesy of letting me use the product etc before you start thrusting other things at me

      Its like having the dessert stuffed under your nose when you have only just started to eat the main course.
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  • Love it! Great advice. Especially about the drawbacks of the "not so perfect product". Very rarely see that.
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    Email Fails: Why Your Marketing Emails Don't Work on Me

    As I was going through my email this morning it struck me how lame some of the marketing emails were. Don't read this as a rant about what I don't like, I just wanted to point out what I think are the fatal flaws in them so others can avoid these mistakes. The "fatal flaws" are the things that stop me from taking the action the marketer wants me to take. Of course, this is just my opinion, but I think these fatal flaws prevent a lot of people from doing whatever the email is trying to get us to do.