Offline SEO Opportunity - Seeking Advice

27 replies
Hi all,

My brother works for a medical lab, he's their Dev Mgr/Tech Lead/Programmer. Apparently they are undergoing a massive website re-development and since he knows that I'm involved in Internet marketing, he spoke with his managers about me. I'm going to meet at their office (with the woman in charge of advertising) at the end of next week. This meeting's purpose will be to sell "myself" (my services) to be hired to do onsite and offsite SEO for their new website.

I've only been able to speak with my brother about it so far so haven't been able to really drill down as to what they're looking for. Basically they are interested in gaining new customers - and who isn't?

I've designed an SEO proposal before for another guy my brother worked for but that project fell through because the company hasn't had any "time" to put towards marketing (they are quite busy building bank applications etc etc).

So I've done a lot of studying as to how to put together a professional proposal. I'm just a little nervous going in there, not knowing exactly what they're looking for. The way I was going to present the proposal would be to explain what on-site SEO is and why it's important, and then go into discussions about off-site SEO and an ongoing maintenance plan.

The only disadvantage going for me is that I don't have any *professional* or client sites to show them how I've achieved rankings in the search engines. I don't want to fall over myself if she asks me about my prior experience.

With all the attention offline marketing is getting lately I thought I could get some good feedback, how to handle entering this arena without an existing portfolio.

Also, I think it would be wise to ask for 50% up front and the rest upon completion. And if they go for a maintenance plan which we can devise together, it would be an ongoing monthly fee. What do you think?

Appreciate all input!
Karen
#advice #offline #opportunity #seeking #seo
  • Profile picture of the author PettyL111
    Here are some winning offline marketing tips to make sure you're on the right track and that you see profit from your efforts:
    • Plan your offline marketing strategy first. Sit down and take time to investigate your options and write an appropriate plan to market your business in the offline world.
    • Compare offline strategies to their online marketing counterparts. Define which ones will work best for you or if you should use both Internet and offline marketing in certain cases.
    • Read and study as much information as you can about successful offline marketing for the online business.
    • Attend business conferences and learn as much as you can about how other companies are marketing. This is also a great networking opportunity and a chance to hand out your business cards, etc.
    • Always be on the lookout for an opportunity to market your business. Carry business cards and fliers with you wherever you go and don't be afraid to strike up a conversation with someone about your company or visit the places your potential customers would be.
    • Balance your efforts and budget between online and offline marketing strategies for the most benefits overall in your business. Compare the results you are seeing from the different types of marketing so you can see what works best.
    Signature
    Get Free Videos Here for Revolutionary New Niche Marketing
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[430828].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
    Thanks for the tips PettyL111. Do you have any feedback regarding my questions in the OP though?

    I'm not looking to bring in offline clients, I'm busy enough as it is, so maybe you misunderstood me. This is a one time opportunity and I'm seeking advice how to best approach the "interview" (along with the other questions I asked).

    Thank you,
    Karen
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[430846].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
    Hi Karen,

    If you have no portfolio then I would strongly advise you to make sure you have someone professional take a look at the proposal you've put together. Also put together a contract outlining your payment terms, and everything you are doing for them for the fee you're charging them.

    Whatever you do, go in there confident in your knowledge and abilities and believe in yourself. If you can exude that kind of quiet confidence and professional demeanor, you have a better chance of landing the project.

    By the way, your payment terms are fine.

    I wish you every success and good fortune!
    Signature
    ---------------
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[430853].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
      Thanks Karen! When I created an SEO proposal for another company (as mentioned in the OP), I did have it reviewed by two friends of mine in the field, who I would gladly refer to as "gurus" even if they don't like the term. Not sure about a contract though. I'm comfortable with researching and writing up my own contract, is that the norm with offline business like this? If you're referring to getting a contract drawn up in the legal sense, I likely won't be able to get that done.

      I think I can come across as confident that's for sure. The good thing is I won't appear desperate for the job - because I'm not (which is good!). I have a full time job and several projects on the go, so time is limited. In fact I need to find out from them what kind of timeframe they're considering, so I can evaluate if I even have the time.

      Do you think that I should forego asking 50% up front? Maybe instead ask for payment terms in a weekly sense or on some type of schedule?

      Since nobody can guarantee somebody's site to be ranked in the search engines favorably, how should I address that? I'm going to discuss site analytics and whatnot with her to explain the kinds of tools we can use to track performance.

      Thanks,
      Karen
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[430870].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        Yes, you can draw up your own contract, Karen, that is not a problem.
        For a proposal such a yours a payment schedule such 1/3 up front, 1/3 mid-project, and 1/3 upon completion of project and then $xx monthly maintenance would be acceptable.

        I'm not sure if we should get into specific amounts you should charge your clients in a public forum. I have never billed specifically for SEO services...I have for web development. Whatever you charge them should be worth the money, over-deliver (without selling yourself short) and they will continue to use you and may refer you even.

        Don't second guess yourself, Karen. Remember, your gut instincts are usually right. You'll be fine.
        Signature
        ---------------
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[430937].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ouroboros
    Karen,

    Show them your successful WSO on RSS marketing as part of your presentation. It impressed me!

    Steve
    Signature

    Need a Simple Product/Service to Market to Offline Clients? Sell Them DFY Custom Videos. https://www.fiverr.com/users/gigsiteguy

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[430885].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
      Hey Steve thanks for mentioning that.. got me thinking! Of course I'll talk about my latest successful product, and ironically enough, the technology and techniques have everything to do with website traffic. Great thinking!

      I just hope that by the end of next week, I'm over this dreaded cold. In fact I think they would postpone the meeting if I were still sick, as it's a medical lab. When my brother gets sick they don't LET him come into the office hehe..

      Thanks for all the suggestions, keep em coming!

      Karen
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[430899].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JECKELLL
    A couple of seo tips:

    If your on a tight budget and dont feel you can compete with the more competetive keywords and brands (depending on what the company trades in)
    Go for the generic terms in your meta tags.
    Consider hyphenating subdomain urls as this makes it easier for the search engine to read them. keep it highly relevant so you can get indexed for lots of long chain highly relevant key words.

    If you want more from me, feel free to PM me and the very best of luck in your interview
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[430923].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
      Jeckell, you mention budget and that leads me to believe you're talking about PPC. I'm not offering PPC services and my brother is quite sure they don't want to go down that road. I'm talking about on site SEO and link building, organic SEO.

      As far as designing the site, I would be in from day one with my brother on site design. I don't think I'm too keen on going the hyphenated sub domain route though.. My experiences haven't convinced me that that's better than utilizing proper keywords in separate pages of the site.

      Thanks for the feedback,
      Karen
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[430930].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author krishananda
    This is just my thought, but if you're in to it, why not. How about make a deal of "pay per performance" or "pay per result"?

    You can attend the interview and explain about them the whole point of SEO, I'm in a condition where most companies don't even realize the potential of internet promotion, so it's kinda hard to ask them an up front payment even though I have some successful stories of my past works.

    Give the future clients blueprint of SEO works, the time line, the reports they'd get and the expected end result.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[431181].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
      Originally Posted by krishananda View Post

      This is just my thought, but if you're in to it, why not. How about make a deal of "pay per performance" or "pay per result"?

      You can attend the interview and explain about them the whole point of SEO, I'm in a condition where most companies don't even realize the potential of internet promotion, so it's kinda hard to ask them an up front payment even though I have some successful stories of my past works.

      Give the future clients blueprint of SEO works, the time line, the reports they'd get and the expected end result.
      Sorry I didn't respond to this sooner, I think I missed it and thank you for the feedback. I wrote the proposal but stayed away from pay per performance. I am not sure I like that model but am familiar with what you're talking about.

      The interview went extremely well and it was actually pretty fun! I'll update once I find out more.

      I did quote them a dollar figure for 3-4 month project, with 1/3 due up front, 1/3 due mid way and the final 1/3 due near the end. And I also talked about an ongoing maintenance plan but did not quote a monthly fee at this time.

      Thanks,
      Karen
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[472020].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author johncarterinc
    Karen's question has got me interested in seeing what others are using for a "proposal" to a prospective client, like a page or two listing the work that will be done and the pricing, whether itemized or just a total at the end. Can anyone share a document like that they have used successfully?
    Thanks!
    John
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[472005].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
      Hi John
      I have a SEO proposal template that I give away for free. Awhile back I wrote it up for a potential client and decided to remove the client related personal items and create a free template. You can download it for free on my blog at Resources :lushprofits.com .

      Let me know what you think.. I just created another proposal for the company I'm talking about in this thread, and it more or less followed the template I wrote before but tailored a bit differently. Since it was going to be viewed by VP and CEO I modified the language and writing to be more professional, and made it more higher level and not so granule.

      Still don't know if I got the job or not (my brother thinks I do without a doubt) but will update here when I find out. I might also modify that proposal to offer as an alternative template as well, as there are some differences.

      Thanks,
      Karen
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[472017].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author johncarterinc
        Originally Posted by Karen Newton View Post

        Hi John
        I have a SEO proposal template that I give away for free. Awhile back I wrote it up for a potential client and decided to remove the client related personal items and create a free template. You can download it for free on my blog.

        Let me know what you think.. I just created another proposal for the company I'm talking about in this thread, and it more or less followed the template I wrote before but tailored a bit differently. Since it was going to be viewed by VP and CEO I modified the language and writing to be more professional, and made it more higher level and not so granule.

        Still don't know if I got the job or not (my brother thinks I do without a doubt) but will update here when I find out. I might also modify that proposal to offer as an alternative template as well, as there are some differences.

        Thanks,
        Karen

        Very nice work, Karen. Great proposal format and explanation. Do you include the pricing as a separate document, or include it in the proposal somewhere? Do you break it down by task, or give them a lump sum for the project? Thanks!
        John
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[472319].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author jan roos
          Karen, I wouldnt worry about having a portfolio of past clients to show them.

          I have been doing this offline thing for about 2 mo nths now and not once has anyone doubted me and asked for proof of my SEO capabilities. People will sense very quickly that you know what you are talking about and they probably won't ask for any proof trust me on this one.

          I have spoken to many business owners in the last 2 months and I dont even consider myself a very good marketer yet. If you've been around this forum for a few months your knowledge is very very useful to business owners because they and their web designers know nothing about IM and especially SEO.

          Just walk in there relaxed and confident and go with the flow. You'll do just fine.

          Regards,
          Signature

          I'll teach you how to make money like a Mamba.

          Sign up for the free money mambas newsletter!

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[472689].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
            Originally Posted by jan roos View Post

            Karen, I wouldnt worry about having a portfolio of past clients to show them.

            I have been doing this offline thing for about 2 mo nths now and not once has anyone doubted me and asked for proof of my SEO capabilities. People will sense very quickly that you know what you are talking about and they probably won't ask for any proof trust me on this one.

            I have spoken to many business owners in the last 2 months and I dont even consider myself a very good marketer yet. If you've been around this forum for a few months your knowledge is very very useful to business owners because they and their web designers know nothing about IM and especially SEO.

            Just walk in there relaxed and confident and go with the flow. You'll do just fine.

            Regards,
            Thanks for the feedback, I was so nervous going into the meeting but once we started talking things just flowed nicely. She never once asked me about a portfolio or past clients. I explained my background and what I do full time (programmer), she knows my history pretty well and considering my brother works closely with her I wanted to be upfront about everything. Good thing is she's very into hiring from small 'boutique' type sources (that's how she puts it, me I call it freelancers) versus hiring from large firms etc.

            So the meeting turned out so well even if I don't get the job I learned a lot. The most critical thing is I learned that I can do this again and again and again.... without feeling nervous. I think my confidence level went way up as far as talking about SEO etc. I've been so immersed in this stuff for a long time now, I didn't realize that I could talk about it so easily.

            Thanks,
            Karen
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[474739].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
          Originally Posted by johncarterinc View Post

          Very nice work, Karen. Great proposal format and explanation. Do you include the pricing as a separate document, or include it in the proposal somewhere? Do you break it down by task, or give them a lump sum for the project? Thanks!
          John

          Hi John,
          Thanks regarding the proposal, spent a lot of time researching for that and putting it together. From everything I've read and studied about proposals, it seems to be the norm to include prices or at least estimates within the proposal itself. In the proposal format I give out for free, that design shows tasks broken down with estimated # of hours.

          In the proposal I designed for this new company I didn't make it so granular. The other proposal was for a guy who was quite technical (different audience) while this proposal is being read by upper level business folks (VP, CEO). So what I did was estimate the # of hours per "module/section" and at the end quoted a lump sum figure. I created a section at the end "Project Details and Fees" and had a paragraph explaining the fees and how 1/3 would be due up front, 1/3 due at the beginning of the next month and 1/3 due at the beginning of the month after that. In that section I also talked about an ongoing maintenance plan but did not quote $ figure at that time (requires further discussion w/ client).

          Thanks,
          Karen
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[474732].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author krishananda
    Hi Karen,

    I hope you a big success for the offline work, I'll be watching your updates in this thread.
    Btw, I just subscribed to your RSS free guide, can't wait for the tips, thanks.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[472068].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
      Krishananda thank you and I hope to update sometime next week. Thanks for the tweet as well (following you) and let me know any suggestions you have for the free RSS guide. I have several pooled up that I need to make a major revision and will send updated versions via the email list.

      Take care,
      Karen
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[472095].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author krishananda
    Thanks I just followed you back, looking forward for the great RSS tips.

    Btw, you have a very cute baby, congratulations, my wife is also expecting a baby, about 3 months pregnancy now, please wish us luck.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[472117].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
      Thank you! I wish you and your wife an abundance of good fortune towards your future life together with your new baby!

      That photo is of my daughter, Sarah Beth. She's 2.5 years old now and definitely the most important thing in the world to me. No words can express what having your own child will mean to you. For me, it's impossible to put into words.

      I wish for your wife to experience the most enjoyable and comforting pregnancy! These are exciting times ahead of you and it only gets better (or so they tell me until your kids become teenagers lol).

      Karen
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[472133].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Hi Karen,

    I've been doing this type of consulting for about 5 years and here's my main comment:

    Your first meeting shouldn't be about what you can do - it should be about what they want and expect.

    The first meeting is almost always to uncover what role their website (and the marketing of it) will play in their business and for you to get an idea of what is and isn't appropriate for them.

    Going in talking about what you can do for them is premature if you haven't sat down and spoken about their business goals.

    Not all SEM techniques apply to all businesses, and some businesses may not care how you do it, where others have a marketing department that will want to 'vet' everything before it 'goes public'.

    No knowing what their situation and expectations are means you can't give an appropriate proposal.

    Once you know what their budget is and what their expectations are - you can put together a proposal that suits - or turn down the business if it's not something you're comfortable delivering.

    I never do any web page/site creation. I will advise them of what they need to consider and changes they could make and then leave it to them, so if they wanted a webmaster - I wouldn't want the work. I know it can be outsourced, but I don't want to spend my time outsourcing things I don't want to do when I can just do work I enjoy.

    Many people think understanding seo is all that's required to run a business, but approaching businesses as a professional sem consultant is different to knowing how to blast links out for clickbank products and you need to behave like a professional. In my experience almost ANY consulting work starts with an initial meeting so that you can outline what's needed and THEN create a suitable proposal to meet that need. You can always have various 'levels' or things which can be done to a lesser extent should the budget not meet your biggest proposal level.

    My experience is that I can charge up to 500 pounds a day for my time for this type of work, so most of the price quoted will be for my time plus expenses for paid directory submissions and press releases etc. as required.

    If the client can't afford that then I have several 'compromises' which can be tweeked to bring the price down and reduce the scope of the work. Then it's up to them to pick a level they're comfortable with.

    More often than not they've just paid a company thousands of pounds to get their website created so a few grand for me to get their sem plan together and implemented is not a large amount.

    Just do things in the way that makes sense and don't go in there all guns blazing and dizzy them with SEO facts or you might just confuse them.

    Andy
    Signature

    nothing to see here.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[472748].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
      Thanks for the feedback Andy, much appreciated.

      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Hi Karen,

      I've been doing this type of consulting for about 5 years and here's my main comment:

      Your first meeting shouldn't be about what you can do - it should be about what they want and expect.

      The first meeting is almost always to uncover what role their website (and the marketing of it) will play in their business and for you to get an idea of what is and isn't appropriate for them.

      Going in talking about what you can do for them is premature if you haven't sat down and spoken about their business goals.
      Wish I had read this before the meeting - your comments make a lot of sense. The meeting did go well - however, I am still unsure of a lot of details regarding what they want. We did talk about the role of their site and business but not in enough detail, of course additional meetings will need to occur. But still I wish I uncovered more of this in the initial meeting. Something to file away for my next opportunity!

      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Not all SEM techniques apply to all businesses, and some businesses may not care how you do it, where others have a marketing department that will want to 'vet' everything before it 'goes public'.

      No knowing what their situation and expectations are means you can't give an appropriate proposal.

      Once you know what their budget is and what their expectations are - you can put together a proposal that suits - or turn down the business if it's not something you're comfortable delivering.
      I see what you mean. In fact I did create a proposal and maybe I got in a bit over my head, because I think a lot of work will need to be done. But I'm looking at all of this as a learning experience (not the SEO work itself but approaching it all w/ an actual client). There may be certain SEM techniques that they won't approve, I have a feeling that may be true. Will it cause me grief? Hmm we will have to see! I will turn to my mentors and the open community here for advice as needed.

      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      I never do any web page/site creation. I will advise them of what they need to consider and changes they could make and then leave it to them, so if they wanted a webmaster - I wouldn't want the work. I know it can be outsourced, but I don't want to spend my time outsourcing things I don't want to do when I can just do work I enjoy.
      I have the same mentality - I am not a webmaster (in this case). I plan to advise them on all changes but not actually make any physical changes. They have stringent rules anyhow about that kind of stuff, and full QA process etc.

      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Many people think understanding seo is all that's required to run a business, but approaching businesses as a professional sem consultant is different to knowing how to blast links out for clickbank products and you need to behave like a professional. In my experience almost ANY consulting work starts with an initial meeting so that you can outline what's needed and THEN create a suitable proposal to meet that need. You can always have various 'levels' or things which can be done to a lesser extent should the budget not meet your biggest proposal level.

      My experience is that I can charge up to 500 pounds a day for my time for this type of work, so most of the price quoted will be for my time plus expenses for paid directory submissions and press releases etc. as required.

      If the client can't afford that then I have several 'compromises' which can be tweeked to bring the price down and reduce the scope of the work. Then it's up to them to pick a level they're comfortable with.

      More often than not they've just paid a company thousands of pounds to get their website created so a few grand for me to get their sem plan together and implemented is not a large amount.

      Just do things in the way that makes sense and don't go in there all guns blazing and dizzy them with SEO facts or you might just confuse them.

      Andy
      This will definitely be different than promoting your average CB product, I can tell that from the get go. I really look forward to this opportunity (if I'm so fortunate to get it) and will fully embrace the challenges ahead. Thank you kindly for taking the time to share your thoughts and advice, it's hugely appreciated (and that goes for all feedback here).

      Karen
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[474752].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author KristenArnold
    Interesting thread. I just met with someone last night but he was giving me the "what can I do myself vs pay you to do".. tough spot, I understand that they want to save money but it's cheaper to pay me to do it and get it done then try to "coach" them I think and I think the mayday calls will drive crazy...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[474753].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
      Originally Posted by KristenArnold View Post

      Interesting thread. I just met with someone last night but he was giving me the "what can I do myself vs pay you to do".. tough spot, I understand that they want to save money but it's cheaper to pay me to do it and get it done then try to "coach" them I think and I think the mayday calls will drive crazy...
      I don't have the offline experience to give perspective on that situation but if it were me, I wouldn't waste any more time with such a client. They sound like the type who want to suck the info from you but not pay you for your time. Be careful how much time you let him waste...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[474767].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by KristenArnold View Post

      Interesting thread. I just met with someone last night but he was giving me the "what can I do myself vs pay you to do".. tough spot, I understand that they want to save money but it's cheaper to pay me to do it and get it done then try to "coach" them I think and I think the mayday calls will drive crazy...
      One of the things you have to learn for yourself is the point where you put your foot down and say, "You want more? Open your wallet..."

      And for someone like that, the offline equivalent to the freebie seeker, set your hourly consulting rate high enough that you can tolerate the aggravation.

      I'm putting together a report for myself with the basic DIY steps. Of course, all the tools I mention will have affiliate links.

      Then I can be a sport and just give them the report - for free, yet. Am I a mensch, or what? On the last page is a reminder of my consulting rates, and a sign from a mechanic's shop...

      Rates
      ====

      I do the work..... $20/hr
      I teach you how to do the work.... $30/hr
      You try to do the work and hire me to fix it.... $100/hr

      Good luck to you...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[475064].message }}

Trending Topics