How to remove scammers from the WSO thread (at least some of them)

13 years ago

WarriorPlus is a separate entity and has nothing to do with the Warrior Forum.

You do not need to use WarriorPlus to run a WSO, so any ratings method that is tied to WarriorPlus would penalize those offers not going through that system.

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AdwordsMogul

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

WarriorPlus is a separate entity and has nothing to do with the Warrior Forum.

You do not need to use WarriorPlus to run a WSO, so any ratings method that is tied to WarriorPlus would penalize those offers not going through that system.

Why do you say that? I'm not saying it should be compulsory - it's just something that would be really beneficial as an option.

Verisign, Comodo, and PayPal are three separate entities, there is no penalty when you don't use them, but you gain credibility when you do.

It would be nice to have something like that for the WarriorPlus system.

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Frank Donovan 13 years ago

Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul

Why do you say that?

Because there's no reason why the Warrior Forum should recognize any third party verification system for its own WSO section; let alone one that would only be available to those offers signed up to that external company's marketing/fulfilment service.

Frank
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Bruce NewMedia

13 years ago

Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul

Here is how everybody wins:

1) We'll have less scammers
2) WarriorPlus will make some more money.
3) Sellers of 'WSO systems' will gain more credibility

Now, every time someone wants to make an earning claim they could get a badge from the WarriorPlus system with the amount sold for a given WSO.

This badge could have options such as # of sales, total sales etc.

The seller would pay like $5-$10 for the privilege.

Just like the PayPal verified it would link to an official WarriorPlus page that verifies the validity of the claim.

Now, I just went through a sad experience which cost me a bit of money, time, and a tiny bit of reputation (very expensive).

However, the truth and justice prevailed and all is fine.

Every adversity brings about something good, so the badge was born. If the powers that be are reading this, maybe they could try it out.

Heck, I will even help getting the script developed.Your turn...

I'm all for getting rid of scammers, but how would the validity of their claim be VERIFIED?....who would actually do this, and what would constitute verification?
_____
Bruce NewMedia

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AdwordsMogul

13 years ago

Originally Posted by brucerby

I'm all for getting rid of scammers, but how would the validity of their claim be VERIFIED?....who would actually do this, and what would constitute verification?
_____
Bruce NewMedia

Well, as I explained this is mainly for those of us who sell "make money with WSOs" stuff - and use WarriorPlus to do so.

WarriorPlus has a reasonable amount of credibility.

The badge can be quite easily created programatically (just like the buy or scarcity buttons) so nobody has to sit on it, or anything.

Google has something like that for Adwords professionals - they give you a link to a page on Google, that proves your credentials.

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onSubie

13 years ago

Hi

I actually see very few scams on WSOs and most fraudulent posts are removed pretty quickly.

If you see a scam, report it.

Or are you one of those people who yells "scam" every time something doesn't work for you?

Also, despite your thread title, I didn't see anything in your post about "How to remove scammers from the WSO forum". It mostly seemed to be a rant that the WSO forum would be better if they weren't there along with a suggestion for some sort of paid rating system.

It is also clear that you don't know how the WSO forum or WarriorPlus work. Hardly what I would call a good starting point for telling others how things should work.

Mahlon

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AdwordsMogul

13 years ago

Originally Posted by onSubie

Hi

....
Or are you one of those people who yells "scam" every time something doesn't work for you?

...

Wow, you're a quick one to jump to conclusions...

Well, as I said, I just had an experience that would have been avoided with such a system. Basically, I had to go through a process with the really helpful Help Desk, that could have easily been avoided - with such a system in place.

Of course, any time there is a safe guard it weeds out at least a few people.

The rant bit... I think that's you projecting, hahaha

Originally Posted by onSubie

Hi

I actually see very few scams on WSOs and most fraudulent posts are removed pretty quickly.

Thanks, at least we now know there is a dedicated Warrior who buys all the 20-30 WSOs posted every day.

Thanks
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onSubie

13 years ago

Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul

Thanks, at least we now know there is a dedicated Warrior who buys all the 20-30 WSOs posted every day.

Here is a challenge. PM me ONE (1) fraudulent post that is currently active in the WSO forum.

Here is an example of a "scam":

The "Secret Shopper Scam"
I hire you through craiglist or similar. I will pay you $1000 to be a "secret shopper". I will send you two money orders for $2500. Cash the MOs and send me two payments of $2000 through Western Union. We are checking to make sure they are properly requesting ID for transactions over $1000. You keep the $1000 left over as your payment. A week after you do this, the money orders will come back as "counterfeit" and your bank will take back the funds. So you will be out the $4000 you sent me by Western Union.

Here is an example of something that is NOT a scam:

"My software will put $5000 a week into your PayPal account on auto-pilot"
This may be an exaggerated claim, it may not tell you the whole story (ie. You need a list, hot converting offer, more software) and it may even violate FTC guidelines for ethical marketing. But it is not a "scam". If you pay me, I will send you the software. If you install the software it will auto-post, or auto-tweet, or whatever.

If you have a good list of buyers or a large number of twitter followers or a good network of JV partners this software will certainly increase your traffic and clicks on "auto-pilot".

A "scam" is a fraudulent offer. A way of stealing money through deception.

Using unethical marketing tactics does not automatically make the offer fraudulent.

I know a lot of people think unethical = scam, especially in IM, but (for me) it needs to cross the line from unethical to fraudulent for me to consider something a scam.

I just see a lot of posts that make the assumption of "all the scams in the WSO forum" without posting a link to the fraudulent post so it can be removed by moderators and avoided by purchasers.

IF you find a scam- REPORT IT! Don't post a simple complaint and let the scammer continue to fleece people.

Mahlon

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jeuneriche2017 Banned 13 years ago

unfortunatelly just like with clickbank scammers, wso scammers will always find a way to survive.

James.
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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by onSubie

Here is an example of something that is NOT a scam:

"My software will put $5000 a week into your PayPal account on auto-pilot"
A "scam" is a fraudulent offer. A way of stealing money through deception.

Using unethical marketing tactics does not automatically make the offer fraudulent.

Sorry ... but this IS a scam. It is an outright lie. It's not just unethical marketing. It is telling people an outright lie about a product in order to get them to buy it, preying on those people who believe just about anything that is put into print.

Customer believes software is actually able to put $5000 a week into your Paypal account on auto-pilot. Customer buys software. Money does not arrive in your Paypal account after using software.

Fortunately, the FTC takes a dim view of deceptive marketing, or more aptly called ... lies to protect those very gullible customers who fall for that crap.

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Selmicro

13 years ago

Perhaps what is needed/missing is a rating system based upon sales/complaints or just a simple up/down vote or maybe even just a simple buyer satisfaction grade on a 1 - 10 scale, or ???

Not all "scams" are unbelievable money offers or income guarantees. Of that there are few here.

But what there are is a fair number of products of questionable value from the get-go.

What I am talking about are those that do what they are advertised to do, but are of little or no value in doing so. without naming any specific offers, there have been a number of offers related that are obviously aimed at the newbie because anyone with any experience would see thru the concepts or statements.

Anyway, just my two cents...

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Jill Carpenter 13 years ago

WarriorPlus has a reasonable amount of credibility.

You sure about that?

Warrior plus is good for management of WSO's. But as far as "credibility" when it comes to it's selection of WSO OTD - well, that is a matter of opinion - and only the opinion of one person from what I understand.

You would need to contact Mike on this issue. No one here can do beans for you.

There are a TON of offers that don't use WSOPro - and never even get a chance to fall into that category of those that would be considered.

I have personally bought a LOT of things that do not use WSO PRO and those things kick the arse of offers that do get that award.

It is like an independent magazine or award offer - but it its not the end all be all with the title it gives out.

And it most certainly has nothing to do with the owner of this forum as far as an official endorsement from the admin here.
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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Selmicro

Perhaps what is needed/missing is a rating system based upon sales/complaints or just a simple up/down vote or maybe even just a simple buyer satisfaction grade on a 1 - 10 scale, or ???

This has been discussed approx 2M times here. Not going to happen. You can leave your review if you buy the product in the WSO as a post.

That system works and works well. I was recently thinking about investing around $300 in a product. The thread is many pages. I read the beginning, some in the middle and some at the end and based on comments, decided not to buy. It wasn't even that the product is bad or that a lot of customers are unhappy. It was more because of some technical problems and because of some additional services with a monthly fee that are required to use the product.

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onSubie 13 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Sorry ... but this IS a scam. It is an outright lie.

Well.... perhaps I was a little overzealous in my description...

But I have seen Market Samurai promoted this way and I do not think MS is a scam, I just think the affiliate promoting it was using exaggerated claims.

I do think people throw the term "scam" around rather loosely and I tend to prefer more "caveat emptor" than "more FTC regulations"...

Mahlon
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rosetrees

13 years ago

Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul

...
Well, as I said, I just had an experience that would have been avoided with such a system.

Are you actually saying that you didn't do your due diligence and purchased what turned out to be a **** product purely because the seller claimed they had sold lots of copies?

I personally think it's time Warrior Plus was renamed so that it doesn't sound as if it is associated with/endorsed by the WF. It's misleading and I'm surprised Alan has allowed it to continue for so long.

Edit: I hope you left appropriate feedback about the product and your refund experience.

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AdwordsMogul

13 years ago

Originally Posted by rosetrees

Are you actually saying that you didn't do your due diligence and purchased what turned out to be a **** product purely because the seller claimed they had sold lots of copies?
...

No, that's not what I'm saying.

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George Wright 13 years ago

Originally Posted by rosetrees

I personally think it's time Warrior Plus was renamed so that it doesn't sound as if it is associated with/endorsed by the WF.

Warrior plus is a good product. It has been "endorsed" (recommended) by Allen. And if he ever changed his mind Warrior Plus Would be gone faster than you could say "new rule."

George Wright
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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul

Now, every time someone wants to make an earning claim they could get a badge from the WarriorPlus system with the amount sold for a given WSO.Your turn...

Who gives a crap abput Warrior Plus? It has nothing to do with the WSO forum and contrary to popular belief, not everyone who runs a WSO, pays additional fees to Plus to run it.

I don't want no stinking badges ...

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sal64

13 years ago

So a crap wso that sells hundreds of copies gets a badge because it sold hundreds of copies?

Why do people waste so much time worrying about WSO's instead of their own business?

Just curious.

The real question should be: How do we stop the daily influx of threads complainng and / or trying to fix the WSO forum?

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Istvan Horvath

13 years ago

this is mainly for those of us who sell "make money with WSOs" stuff

Is that a business model?

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sal64

13 years ago

here we go, here we go, here we go-o.
it's the only bloody tune that we know-o

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Craig Roberts Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by sal64

here we go, here we go, here we go-o.
it's the only bloody tune that we know-o

Got that song stuck to my head now, lol..
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johndelamora

Banned 13 years ago

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Kay King

13 years ago

A WSO buyer satisfaction rating system is actually a good idea

This has been proposed countless times and it's not going to happen. Too easy to game such a system. More importantly, people need to learn to make decisions on their own if they are running their own business.

Buy only what you need - check out the reputation of the seller before you buy and don't expect miracles. Too many say "it sounded to good to be true, but"....lose the "but".

Money trees are not sold here - but seeds are.

Kay

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George Wright

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

This has been proposed countless times and it's not going to happen. Too easy to game such a system. More importantly, people need to learn to make decisions on their own if they are running their own business.

Buy only what you need - check out the reputation of the seller before you buy and don't expect miracles. Too many say "it sounded to good to be true, but"....lose the "but".

Money trees are not sold here - but seeds are.

Kay

Thanks a lot Kay, for putting into a few sentences what I just wrote an entire article on. (My post above)

You are laconic.

George Wright

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George Wright

13 years ago

Here is a 100% fail proof way to get rid of scams on the WSO Forum

Close the WSO forum.

I for one hope that never happens and I as always will take part of the responsibility if I do get scammed, which by the way I never have.

I bet if there was an accounting of all of the top WSO buyers I would be in the top 100 and as I said I've never been scammed.

Then again, I do my homework. I buy only from Warriors who would have something to lose if they got caught scamming. (I have made a few exceptions to this.)

I also have filters in me that I think most of us have.

That rules out...

1. ALL of the income claim WSOs except for the ones that give reasonable claims and or are by Warriors I trust.
2. All the ones that are by members who have given nothing to us on the main or other forums. (There have been some exceptions based on other positive evidence, or prices too low to pass up)
3. And others my gut reaction tells me to stay away from.

When I buy a WSO I learn from the entire process not just the product. If the Sales Page (OP) made me just have to buy, that's worth money to me as I put it in my swipe file.

If the OTO compelled me to spend more money I put that in my swipe file also.

If the product teaches me something Great, that's a plus.

All adults should have filters built in that helps them make wise buying decisions. We don't just go into the grocery story and randomly buy everything in site just because it's in the way of our shopping carts. Nor do we buy on hype alone...

I hope,

George Wright

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kiteg2

13 years ago

This may be an exaggerated claim, it may not tell you the whole story
and it may even violate FTC guidelines for ethical marketing.

A "scam" is a fraudulent offer. A way of stealing money through deception.

“Yep right.”

Using unethical marketing tactics does not automatically make the offer fraudulent.

Leaving out vital information deliberately is considered “duty of care” Try breeching that in a court of law, or with your insurance company. And then try telling them it’s not Fraudulent.

There are to many offers all over the internet, that are unethical, Google know it, the FTC know it,
both act against it, what makes you think people here wouldn’t appreciate it?
I mean someone actually had the nerve to start a thread about it? Such hyde!

here we go, here we go, here we go-o.

There they go, there they go, THERE THEY GO. Yipee

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AdwordsMogul

13 years ago

Whoa, all I said is this:

1) Someone says I made "$1" selling WSOs, and I used WarriorPlus (an excellent service by the way).

2) The person pays for a badge generated by WarriorPlus that proves the earning.

3) A prospect clicks on the badge that links to a WarriorPlus page which confirms the $1 earnings.

That's it! I did NOT propose a rating system.

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul

Whoa, all I said is this:

1) Someone says I made "$1" selling WSOs, and I used WarriorPlus (an excellent service by the way).

2) The person pays for a badge generated by WarriorPlus that proves the earning.

3) A prospect clicks on the badge that links to a WarriorPlus page which confirms the $1 earnings.

That's it! I did NOT propose a rating system.

Well the fact that someone made the $1 from a WSO and has some stupid badge means absolutely nothing. It means as little as WSO of the Day, which many people think actually implies quality of some sort.

There have been many con artists that have made a lot more than $1 on their WSOs, so all you're proving is that their copy sucked people into buying. Warrior Forum, and the WSO forum specifically, doesn't need any fake credentials to bolster sales. A products credibility should stand on how many happy customers it has.

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sal64

13 years ago

I have spent all day trying to reinvent the wheel, and come back to see this thread still going.

Maybe I should stop wasting time reinventing the wheel and just make the most of the one I have?

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seankaye

13 years ago

I sympathize with the OP about the state of the WSO threads, it's the wild west. The problem is, you just have to get past it and see it for what it is.

I find it frustrating when I see WSO's with outrageous financial claims being made and even worse, the ones who email you "guaranteeing" you'll make $1000/mth if you buy and follow such-and-such WSO.

It's amateur hour, very few of them comply with the FTC ethical marketing standards and even worse, most of them just aren't REAL Internet marketers. I expressed it in another thread - when a guy starts his sales copy telling you what a failure he was in affiliate marketing until he wrote a WSO about selecting niches successfully, you know what you're dealing with.

That said, I go in there panning for gold, I sift through a bunch of gravel and silt but every now and then I find something worth keeping.

Giving them badges or stuff like that won't fix it, just exercise a bit of "buyer beware".

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Michael Oksa

13 years ago

While I appreciate your desire to "fix" something that you perceive as being broken, I would like to address your three main points.

Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul

Here is how everybody wins:

1) We'll have less scammers
2) WarriorPlus will make some more money.
3) Sellers of 'WSO systems' will gain more credibility

1) Unfortunately, that's not true. Scammers don't care about credibility, they care about volume of sales.

2) Oh yeah, because they are hurting right now.

3) Sellers of WSOs that CHOOSE to use WarriorPlus for their listings AND display this badge may get some people to trust trust them a little bit more. However, those people that would put their trust in a badge are also likely to be the type of people who would believe the same claims WITHOUT a badge.

Furthermore, you say this will help "everybody", but then you say it could only be used by those selling 'WSO systems', which clearly isn't everybody.

Also, you can get a rough idea of sales if they are offering an affiliate program for their WSO.

So, while I think your heart is in the right place, I personally don't think this solution will have the positive impact you imagine.

All the best,
Michael

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Marko87

13 years ago

I've thought about this and come up with a couple of ideas:

1) Ban income claims: They are totally pointless anyway, just because person A makes $500 a day with system X there is no guarantee that person B will do so. Unless there is a Guarantee that you will make X amount of money with the WSO then income claims are pointless.

2) Make it compulsory at the start of a WSO sales thread to say what the WSO pertains to i.e. this is a guide relating to facebook marketing, seo (what sort of seo; backlinking, on page etc, article marketing etc etc.

This will get rid of the blind sales letters that leave you with no clue as to what the WSO is actually about and only spew out retoric on how this "changed their life", "made money on autopilot" and such like.

Obviously those of us that have been around for a while can see past these shady sales tactics, but, we were all new once and these unethical marketers are clearly trying to take advantage of newbies and these underhand tactics are giving a bad name to all the legitimate sellers out there.

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Black Hat Cat

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marko87

I've thought about this and come up with a couple of ideas:

1) Ban income claims: They are totally pointless anyway, just because person A makes $500 a day with system X there is no guarantee that person B will do so. Unless there is a Guarantee that you will make X amount of money with the WSO then income claims are pointless.

2) Make it compulsory at the start of a WSO sales thread to say what the WSO pertains to i.e. this is a guide relating to facebook marketing, seo (what sort of seo; backlinking, on page etc, article marketing etc etc.

This will get rid of the blind sales letters that leave you with no clue as to what the WSO is actually about and only spew out retoric on how this "changed their life", "made money on autopilot" and such like.

Or, even better, you can ignore any income claims, and skip any blind offers. The rest of us who aren't bothered by such things can do as we please. Problem solved.

Blind offers and income claims aren't the problem....crappy products are the problem. A crappy product doesn't become a quality one simply because the income claim is left off.

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ReachOneMedia

13 years ago

I really, really like this thread and I will explain you why...

There's an urgent need for wso vendor to have some sort of a tool to help them get REAL rating for their wso.

Let me explain... the problem right now is that reviews are not representative of the real value of an wso... people are being offered bonuses or other bribes to leave reviews, many of those reviews comes from Wso review sites also where the owners of those review site will ask for a free copy of the product and then leave a review on their site and mass promote the product to their list (if you agree to give them a better deal for their list... which I think is against the WF rules. If someone else is getting a better product for the wso... it's not a wso no more) wso vendors also get many reviews from friends and fans that will support them whatever they do.

One of the problem resides in the fact that for many wso customers leaving a reviews takes too much time to do. They want to get the product, consume the product and jump to the next a few hours later ( i don't say it's the case for everyone... don't get offended here).

I don't want to fall in the self promotion but me and one of the best coder I've worked with let's call him "All Mighty Ken' are working on something right now and I think that it will totally revolutionize the way people are rating/reviewing wso's

Can't say much for now because it's not really the best place to talk about it but something is coming up for people who wants to know if a wso is HOT or NOT before purchasing it.

I'll keep you updated real soon

Have a great day

J

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Robert Puddy

13 years ago

i dont like the way the wso forum is run either, but i vote with my feet i dont go in there

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blillard

13 years ago

Scam me once shame on you, scam me twice shame on me. Th best way to rid the scammers is to actually out them. If you buy a product that does not deliver despite all the steps taken in course then leave your review of your outcomes. They say please leave feedback good or bad, so why isn't anyone leaving the bad?

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Patrick Pretty

13 years ago

Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul

Now, every time someone wants to make an earning claim they could get a badge from the WarriorPlus system with the amount sold for a given WSO.

This badge could have options such as # of sales, total sales etc.

The seller would pay like $5-$10 for the privilege.

"Badge" and similar systems actually can be a key marker of a scam. It is a fairly common form of fraud that is used to conceal fraud while at once creating a new way to monetize fraud.

Here is an FTC case on point:

FTC Settlement Ends "Tested Green" Certifications That Were Neither Tested Nor Green

Patrick

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jasonl70

13 years ago

While I used to hit the wso section frequently, when I was bored and wanted some reading material for the night (surf the net/watch tv, vs. spend a few bucks on something that might help my business), I rarely even go into the wso section anymore.

While I do closely go over all of the feedback of a wso, I've discovered it often means nothing when people are "bribed" with bonuses to leave a review, etc. Since those reviews become part of the sales pitch (often even copy/pasted up into the offer), it is not even legal to do this in the US without disclosing that the person was rewarded for their testimonial. Not to mention that most of the feedback is useless ("just downloaded - wow, looks great", "I know I'll make money with this", etc)...

sorry - that was a bit off topic..

back to the OP - I think spending this sort of time on something that only pertains to a small slice of wso products (wso's on making money with wso's) would be a collosal misuse of time for the folks running warrior plus.

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Suggestions on the Warrior Plus/Pro system should be offered to Mike. This isn't the place for them.

A few comments:

They say please leave feedback good or bad, so why isn't anyone leaving the bad?

Look through the threads, starting with the latest posts in each. You'll find negative comments, ranging from minor issues to large ones, in quite a few of them.

While I do closely go over all of the feedback of a wso, I've discovered it often means nothing when people are "bribed" with bonuses to leave a review, etc.

If you see this happening, please report it. We don't allow that practice, and have closed more than a few offers for doing that.

I believe that's covered by #9 in the WSO rules thread.

Paul

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jasonl70

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

If you see this happening, please report it. We don't allow that practice, and have closed more than a few offers for doing that.

I believe that's covered by #9 in the WSO rules thread.

Paul

I don't buy many wso's anymore, so maybe the practice is no longer as widespread. If it's died down, I might actually check the wso forum out a bit more..

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Tim_Carter

13 years ago

How does the number of sales of a WSO correlate to what is being sold? If i sell 100 copies of a WSO about dating sites how does the number of sales of the WSO relate to what method I am selling?

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JohnMcCabe

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Tim_Carter

How does the number of sales of a WSO correlate to what is being sold? If i sell 100 copies of a WSO about dating sites how does the number of sales of the WSO relate to what method I am selling?

I've been reading through this thread hoping to see someone provide the bridge over this leap of logic myself. The only way I can see such a badge system having any kind of relevance at all is for the handful of offers selling "how to make money selling WSOs" systems actually using that system.

Even then all it would 'prove' is the number of copies sold. Not whether the system would be effective for any of the buyers.

I do see some sales sites with more badges than an over-achieving Eagle Scout, but I figure the relationship between the number of badges and the trustworthiness of the seller is an inverse one...

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AdwordsMogul

13 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

.... The only way I can see such a badge system having any kind of relevance at all is for the handful of offers selling "how to make money selling WSOs" systems actually using that system.

...

Which is exactly what I said in the original post.

And, as Michael Oksa also mentioned, it would help attract more affiliates for a given offer (assuming it's sold via WarriorPlus.

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Michael Oksa 13 years ago

Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul

And, as Michael Oksa also mentioned, it would help attract more affiliates for a given offer (assuming it's sold via WarriorPlus.

Huh?

To be be very clear, I absolutely did NOT say that, or anything even close to it.

When I said

Also, you can get a rough idea of sales if they are offering an affiliate program for their WSO.

I was simply letting you know that there is ALREADY a way to get an idea of WSO sales, BUT only if the seller is offering it to affiliates via WarriorPlus. The stats aren't exact, but you will get some idea.

My point was to show another reason why such a badge is a bead idea at worst, and isn't needed at best.

All the best,
Michael
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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Jason,

I don't buy many wso's anymore, so maybe the practice is no longer as widespread. If it's died down, I might actually check the wso forum out a bit more..

It's not completely gone, as we still get notified of it once in a while. It's dropped a lot, though.

The problem is, there have been a few people who taught that as part of their "WSO promotional systems." The buyers of those products often don't read the rules, and just assume that whatever is being taught is acceptable. As long as those products exist, they'll keep creating more problems. We notify the sellers to remove that advice when we're told about it, but by then there are more people being improperly taught.

For those who wondered: The thing that makes it effective is also what makes it questionable, if not outright illegal in some cases: Lots of public praise created by undisclosed compensation.

Tim,

How does the number of sales of a WSO correlate to what is being sold?

I'm always amused that people think the number sold is relevant to anything other than the marketing.

Paul

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AdwordsMogul 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Jason
...
Tim,I'm always amused that people think the number sold is relevant to anything other than the marketing.
...

It is amusing... nevertheless it's one of the most peculiar characteristics of human nature.

When we see other people doing something, we feel we should do it too, or we accept it as 'normal'.

Coming back to the fast food example - the fact that "everybody" eats it makes it "normal" despite the fact that it's poisonous.
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CDarklock

13 years ago

Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul

Now, every time someone wants to make an earning claim they could get a badge from their payment processor with the amount sold for a given product.

Fixed that for you, so people will deal with the idea and not complain about which payment processor you're talking about.

I agree with this. I think it's a natural and normal thing for a payment processor to offer.

Basically, I imagine you would go into some area of your control panel and authorise the creation of a report for specific products over a specific time period, and then you would get a coded ID for that report. This ID could then be loaded as an image file for inclusion in a sales page, or as an HTML report to be included as a link or iframe.

By way of disclosure, the HTML report should include the parameters for the report: which products over what timeframe, etc.

The only thing the payment processor warrants, however, is that these statistics are the same ones the account owner sees when logged into their account. What they mean and how they were accomplished is not their business and you should exercise appropriate discretion and due diligence.

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AdwordsMogul 13 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

...

I agree with this. I think it's a natural and normal thing for a payment processor to offer.

...

PayPal allows you to create extra users with limited privileges, but it's not flexible enough for this purpose - unless you create an account just for a given product. Or maybe register a new company so that you don't break their TOS

Thinking about it, such a badge might also help when dealing with JV partners.
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HeySal

13 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Fixed that for you, so people will deal with the idea and not complain about which payment processor you're talking about.

I agree with this. I think it's a natural and normal thing for a payment processor to offer.

Basically, I imagine you would go into some area of your control panel and authorise the creation of a report for specific products over a specific time period, and then you would get a coded ID for that report. This ID could then be loaded as an image file for inclusion in a sales page, or as an HTML report to be included as a link or iframe.

By way of disclosure, the HTML report should include the parameters for the report: which products over what timeframe, etc.

The only thing the payment processor warrants, however, is that these statistics are the same ones the account owner sees when logged into their account. What they mean and how they were accomplished is not their business and you should exercise appropriate discretion and due diligence.

One word comes to mind when I read this:

PHOTOSHOP

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CheapTrafficDude

13 years ago

Dude, it already exists, it's called "WSO Of The Day", which is endorsed by Mr. Lantz, who OWNS the WF. To me, that's enough "credibility", even better than just someone buying a trust seal, the same trust seal that is given to anyone who's willing to pay for it...

Besides, the average price for a WSO is what, $10?? If you can't live without that $10 then don't buy the WSO. However, I'm not bashing the idea for WSO trust seals or verified user earnings... Besides, usually if you read the "6,000" comments, you'll see if people are making mney with it because those who make money with systems or have a software working nicely, will definitely tell all their friends and their mothers about this "really cool WSO they got" or "how crappy some WSO is".

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by CheapTrafficDude

Dude, it already exists, it's called "WSO Of The Day", which is endorsed by Mr. Lantz, who OWNS the WF. To me, that's enough "credibility", even better than just someone buying a trust seal, the same trust seal that is given to anyone who's willing to pay for it...

Besides, the average price for a WSO is what, $10?? If you can't live without that $10 then don't buy the WSO. However, I'm not bashing the idea for WSO trust seals or verified user earnings... Besides, usually if you read the "6,000" comments, you'll see if people are making mney with it because those who make money with systems or have a software working nicely, will definitely tell all their friends and their mothers about this "really cool WSO they got" or "how crappy some WSO is".

ahem ... Mike Lantz doesn't OWN any part of the Warrior Forum. Allen Says owns the Warrior Forum. WSO of the Day is just some WSO he (M. Lantz) picked and doesn't hold any water with me. Nothing against Lantz but Lantz is in it for the money and his endorsement of a product does not imply quality to me.

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mattlaclear 13 years ago

No offense intended to Mike Lantz. But if we're going to vote someone in charge of deciding who gets to belong to the in group and who doesn't then I nominate myself for the position.

I have a special pinky ring I have been saving for just such an occasion. :rolleyes:

Sounds like some regulatory nonsense if you ask me.

The market decides what products are good and which are not. Those vendors selling good products pay for bumps every day. Those not selling quit bumping eventually.

To think that we need someone to hold our hands in deciding who to do business with and who not to is straight up wrong and scary.

You want to eliminate risk from the business equation? That is utterly impossible.

The way to avoid being "scammed" in the wso section is to only do business with vendors who have established threads.

Anything else is buyer beware.

I call BS.
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Michael Oksa

13 years ago

Originally Posted by CheapTrafficDude

Dude, it already exists, it's called "WSO Of The Day", which is endorsed by Mr. Lantz, who OWNS the WF. To me, that's enough "credibility", even better than just someone buying a trust seal, the same trust seal that is given to anyone who's willing to pay for it...

Besides, the average price for a WSO is what, $10?? If you can't live without that $10 then don't buy the WSO. However, I'm not bashing the idea for WSO trust seals or verified user earnings... Besides, usually if you read the "6,000" comments, you'll see if people are making mney with it because those who make money with systems or have a software working nicely, will definitely tell all their friends and their mothers about this "really cool WSO they got" or "how crappy some WSO is".

And yet another reason to make the dis-association MORE clear. Wonder if that would be done voluntarily? LOL!

Nope.

All the best,
Michael

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Suthan M

13 years ago

As far as I know, selling huge quantities never says anything about any person as being credible. It just means you can sell, or have someone who can sell. That's it.

To quantify the number of products sold to being "credible" is definitely the wrong way to look at things.

That is why I stopped using "income claim shots" in my product for quite some time. That doesnt show me anything other than being smart enough to take a screenshot.

I believe the best credibility proof comes from you line of work, the "dent you have made in the industry to better it", and the success others have made off yours- not the other way around. There is very little way to "fake" this. :-)

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Dude, it already exists, it's called "WSO Of The Day", which is endorsed by Mr. Lantz, who OWNS the WF.

Just to echo what Suzanne said: The forum is owned by Allen Says, not Mike Lantz. Mike owns Warrior Plus, which is a separate entity entirely.

Paul

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James B. Allen

13 years ago

"Dude, it already exists, it's called "WSO Of The Day", which is endorsed by Mr. Lantz, who OWNS the WF."

LULZ. Maybe Allen needs a new PR guy? hehehe

- James

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CDarklock 13 years ago

Originally Posted by James B. Allen

Maybe Allen needs a new PR guy?

There is a lot of speculation that Allen Says:

- Does not exist
- Sold the forum
- Died years ago

This leads to further speculation about who "really" runs the forum. The usual front-runners in these discussions are Paul Myers and Mike Lantz, so it degenerates into presentation of "evidence" that it's really Paul or really Mike or whatever. I see some variant of this conversation at least every two to three weeks.

Personally, I don't see why it matters, and some part of me just goes "WTF" whenever the subject arises.
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- Paul Myers 13 years ago
  
  Caliban,
  
  There is a lot of speculation
  
  Everything after those sage syllables was extraneous. Entertaining, but unnecessary.
  
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sal64

13 years ago

All them scammers should be gathered up in the village square... then burnt at the stake.

That'll teach them!

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JohnMcCabe 13 years ago

Originally Posted by sal64

All them scammers should be gathered up in the village square... then burnt at the stake.

That'll teach them!

Sal, much like the real death penalty, it won't teach them anything. But it sure would cut down on repeat offenders...
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- sal64 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe
  
  Sal, much like the real death penalty, it won't teach them anything. But it sure would cut down on repeat offenders...
  
  Not even if we burn them slowly?
  
  Dang, there goes my Sunday afternoon entertainment.
  
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  JohnMcCabe 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by sal64
  
  Not even if we burn them slowly?
  
  Dang, there goes my Sunday afternoon entertainment.
  
  I didn't say we shouldn't do it. I just noted that it wouldn't teach them anything...
  
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Charles Evans

13 years ago

Many people complain about such things that look and smell like scams... truth is that I have found many of those which cost me just a couple of bucks... I read them and perhaps don't get the results they show on their headline sales page, but i do learn a nugget here an there - heck for around $5 bucks...? Plus, most of them offer 30 or 60 day guarantee... so yeah keep them coming... ?

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ankur sharma

13 years ago

Seriously, i was in same boat earlier. I also do not like so many crap wsos out there. But, than i realized, i have become more experienced, more business oriented. Thats why i see these wso as crap. My partner on the other hand, think lot of these wsos are gold.

I think, there is a learning curve. Its like, you cant discard your kid to learn A,B,C if you are going to publish your next book.

Also, there is refund policy attached to almost every wso offer. That just guarantee, you will get your money back, in case you are not happy with product. So, all in all, thats how the system runs and thats how it will keep running, so adjust with it.

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ankur sharma

13 years ago

Also, at the end of the day, this is not democracy. This is communism

Allen says make decision here. There is no voting system here and there is no compulsion to act on anyone's compulsion.

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Dennis Gaskill

13 years ago

If anything is needed, in my opinion it's this:

People need to stop being believing hype over their own better judgment.
Most of the people buying the pipe dreams know it sounds too good to be true, but they buy anyway. That's their fault for being voluntarily gullible.

People need to stop believing there's an easy road to wealth.
Short of getting lucky and winning the lottery, the road to wealth is never easy. It's the result of careful planning and hard work.

People need to stop believing someone else has all the answers.
You can learn from others, of course, but you're going to have to learn to make important decisions for yourself if you're going to have a successful business. I see a LOT of people here that want someone else to tell them what to do even in fairly small decisions.

Actually, when you down to brass tacks, I think a lot of the trouble is that too many people just want to make money, they don't want to build a business.

Seriously, if that's you . . . think about that.

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AdwordsMogul

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

If anything is needed, in my opinion it's this:

People need to stop being believing hype over their own better judgment.
...
People need to stop believing there's an easy road to wealth.
...

People need to stop believing someone else has all the answers.
...
Actually, when you down to brass tacks, I think a lot of the trouble is that too many people just want to make money, they don't want to build a business.

Seriously, if that's you . . . think about that.

I agree with you 100% - but we all know human nature is stubbornly hard to change.

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markhimeb

13 years ago

I think that nothing has to change. THere is a problem with ppl offering less than what they promise, but this is not really a problem.

On the other hand, WF has already a good refunding system and when I was not satisfied with some product I always managed to get my money back faster and with more ease than paypal.

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kiteg2

13 years ago

They say please leave feedback good or bad, so why isn't anyone leaving the bad? Look through the threads, starting with the latest posts in each. You'll find negative comments, ranging from minor issues to large ones, in quite a few of them. Quote:
While I do closely go over all of the feedback of a wso, I've discovered it often means nothing when people are "bribed" with bonuses to leave a review, etc.
If you see this happening, please report it. We don't allow that practice, and have closed more than a few offers for doing that.

It seems some people don't like honest feedback. I posted very geuuine feedback about people "clearing their throat, sniffing and snivelling " on a webinar, and also told people to check the forums before buying for support issues...."OH DID I MENTION I GOT A LIFETIME BAN THREAT FOR BEING HONEST!!! And the was instantly removed....

So it was clearly to close to the truth for comfort.

BUT HEY THE FORUM RULES SAY MOST PEOPLE ARE 100% HONEST!

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John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul

Now, every time someone wants to make an earning claim they could get a badge from the WarriorPlus system with the amount sold for a given WSO.

Only prob is that some people use warriorplus, and also paydotcom, and also regular paypal... and not all of their projects are on wso pro...cool idea, but just brainstorming with you.

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Sheila Dunfrey

13 years ago

The easiest way to clear away the scammers is to literally out them. If you opt for a product that doesn't deliver inspite of all the steps used in course then leave behind your report on your results.

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Paul Myers 13 years ago

OH DID I MENTION I GOT A LIFETIME BAN THREAT FOR BEING HONEST!!!

From who?

You didn't get that threat from a moderator here, unless there was a lot more to the comments than what you just mentioned. WSO sellers who threaten people with banning are walking a very thin line.

It's one thing for someone to say "That sort of comment can get you banned." It's a whole other thing to say "I will have you banned." It's generally not a good idea to cross over to the latter if you're not actually a moderator.

I hear about those kinds of threats being sent via PM occasionally. If someone does that, report them. We'll see how well they do when their offers are closed and they're the ones banned for a while.

Paul
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kiteg2

13 years ago

I hear about those kinds of threats being sent via PM occasionally. If someone does that, report them. We'll see how well they do when their offers are closed and they're the ones banned for a while.

Hi Paul

Thanks for the heads up, The post deleted and a lifetime threat ban. To be honest I had only posted half a dozen times and been thanked several times for the posts I had done. I see no point in sending posts just for the sake of them or so I can contact the mods but never the less I have been forced to do it.

This attack was cowardly, there was no courtesy, it threatened a lifetime ban, the post was removed, no one asked for a receipt as proof of purchase and they knew I could not respond or send to admin for lack of posts.
And I see on some of the posts in this forum that it is the people who don’t make many posts that are the trouble makers.

Is it really a wonder why some people choose not to spend much time posting on forums as it can be time consuming and unproductive?
I had assumed it had come form a mod as I figured only a mod could threaten a ban, and remove a post without the courtesy of asking for a receipt.

My post only echo’d what other people were saying….(Hmm sound like I had first hand knowledge doesn’t it? Like I may have actually purchased under a different name and email….Hmm Could it really be I am the only one here who does that..I wonder) But I can’t get back to the post nor did I actually save the post on my hd…I mean why would you.

Thanks for the tip, I will not mention names in an open forum but I am going to copy the pm and send it to admin. I sent something yesterday, expressing my thoughts but if this is not a mod then I want action taken against tehm so I will be sending the name of the person involved.

Really appreciate you thoughts on this.
Thanks.

Thanks

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kiteg2

13 years ago

Thanks Paul have forwarded the pm to admin and asked they take appropriate action.

Thanks
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Istvan Horvath

13 years ago

Originally Posted by kiteg2

Thanks Paul have forwarded the pm to admin and asked they take appropriate action.

You don't need to "forward".

There is a little triangle on the top right, next to the PM title when you opened it for reading. Click it > report it.

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Thanks for the tip, I will not mention names in an open forum but I am going to copy the pm and send it to admin. I sent something yesterday, expressing my thoughts but if this is not a mod then I want action taken against tehm so I will be sending the name of the person involved.

Do not "send to admin." Above each PM, on the right hand side of the screen, is the report button. A red triangle with a black exclamation point in it. Use that.

And please forward it to me. I'd like to see what/who's involved.

If the seller reported the post as coming from someone who hadn't bought, that might explain it having been deleted. But a permanent ban would require more than a simple comment on the product.

Paul

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dagaul101

13 years ago

It would be nice to have some kind of badge to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak

Thanks

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How to remove scammers from the WSO thread (at least some of them)

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