About Rule #1

by John Taylor 53 replies
I'm very tempted to break rule #1 this morning having discovered
someone else's WSO being "shared" by someone who calls himself
a warrior.

Shared is a euphemism for stealing someone else's hard work and
posting it on one or more file sharing sites.

This thief is so dumb he uses the same username on a warez site
as he does here.

Unfortunately this is not an uncommon problem.

But as Allen has handed over moderation of the forum to us all, I'm
wondering who else feels that there should be exceptions to rule #1
when it comes to outing a thief?

John
#main internet marketing discussion forum #rule
  • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
    I may be a bit out of line here...as I am a new member but that is unacceptable.

    It is terrible that people steal other people's information. Tis the Internet.

    But hey...a forum for the members and moderated by the members.

    Didn't a wise man once say...Rules were made to be broken?

    Sean
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      I vote for exposing them - knowing you John, you've got your facts straight so I don't think it violates the intent of rule #1. It's not you personally having a problem with this - the entire membership.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
        Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

        I vote for exposing them - knowing you John, you've got your facts straight so I don't think it violates the intent of rule #1. It's not you personally having a problem with this - the entire membership.
        Mike,

        The guy is so intellectually challenged he uses the same
        username and the same picture in his profile.

        I would think that's fairly conclusive.

        John
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        • Profile picture of the author zerofill
          Did you try PMing them here? I would love to know what their answers were. Plus there are some pretty dirty people in IM...I could see someone posing as someone else on a forum to ruin their reputation. Some of the things I have noticed in IM are almost as dirty as Telecom which I know too much about heh. Telecom is what company can slice what company's throat first and deepest.

          Is the person that is doing it successful in the same niche as the person who's WSO he is giving away?

          Reason I bring up some of my points is because in Telecom and Programming I have actually seen people go on forums and pose as others to destroy their reputation.

          But if you are 100% sure...I would post it heh.
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        • Profile picture of the author o_brient
          Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

          Mike,

          The guy is so intellectually challenged he uses the same
          username and the same picture in his profile.

          I would think that's fairly conclusive.

          John
          Well John, personally I'd do a bit more digging (I'm sure you have) - after all if some Machiavellian marketer out there had a grudge against someone, it is a perfect fit up crime if you know what you're doing and cover your tracks...

          Defo give them a PM and see what they have to say first.

          Cheers,
          Tom
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        • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
          Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

          The guy is so intellectually challenged he uses the same username and the same picture in his profile. I would think that's fairly conclusive.
          Agreed. But remember there is a chance, albeit slim, that someone has deliberately taken his username and avatar intending to make him look bad.

          I could for instance take your avatar and your name and sign up on some other forum.

          Unlikely... but not impossible.

          ... so... who is he?
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  • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
    My own personal belief is that protecting others from a 'crime'
    providing there is proof and the power is used responsibly is
    important.

    So, with that in mind, if I had the evidence to back up the
    accusation then I would go for it.
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    • Hi John,

      You might remember that recently I encountered the same issue with one of my WSOs.

      Not fun.

      Cheers

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      Myself, I believe it is our responsibility.

      If we do nothing, we are guilty of aiding and abetting a criminal. I have never been in favour of old Rule #1. I do believe that there is a danger of false accusation, but I also believe the innocent need to be protected -- or at least forewarned.

      I will always remember you John for warning me when a sneaky bugger was distributing one of my Recipes. I believe we should all be watching each other's backs.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bob B
        Theft is theft. No excuses. Take the scabby vermin down.

        Bob
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        • Profile picture of the author zerofill
          If they use the same forum name as they do here...and it isn't a name that could be easily used by someone else. Like some common type name...

          Then obviously shoot them. Tie them up to a flag pole...flog them...beat them into oblivion...tar and feather...

          Wait I need to go take my meds....
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          • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
            Originally Posted by zerofill View Post

            If they use the same forum name as they do here...and it isn't a name that could be easily used by someone else. Like some common type name...

            Then obviously shoot them. Tie them up to a flag pole...flog them...beat them into oblivion...tar and feather...

            Wait I need to go take my meds....

            Hmmm. Might have a wheel or two lying about




            Got to stop this image addiction
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            • Profile picture of the author zerofill
              Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

              Hmmm. Might have a wheel or two lying about

              Got to stop this image addiction
              Funny how they called it torture back then...and modern day they call em sex toys HAHA
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              • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
                Originally Posted by zerofill View Post

                Funny how they called it torture back then...and modern day they call em sex toys HAHA
                If my girlfriend ever comes back from ann-summers with one of those, I'm off!!!
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              • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
                Originally Posted by zerofill View Post

                Funny how they called it torture back then...and modern day they call em sex toys HAHA

                Rieko says you can only borrow ours for a while. Seems I'm a baaaad boy quite often.
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                • Profile picture of the author zerofill
                  Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

                  Rieko says you can only borrow ours for a while. Seems I'm a baaaad boy quite often.
                  Haha...I will let my wife know...
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                  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
                    LOL zerofill...how did I KNOW you'd go there.

                    Anyhow, I think we should have a "backball" section of the forum and we could post them all there.

                    Same exact thing happened to me. Turns out it originated from a big user on some Iranian forum. It's been a while so I forgot the forum name...but he posted it to a major file sharing site as well and then touted it all over that forum.

                    AL
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  • Theft from fellow warriors is inexcusable. This forum is supposed to be about helping others, sharing and neworking. Theft has no place in any of those.

    Tony
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    • John, I'm all for outing them. I had my own product stolen and shared in this exact manner. Thankfully, a Warrior PMed me and let me know about it. The illegal warez file was then re-posted on DP...and you KNOW how many people visit that site.

      Had I not had a chance to nip this in the bud, my product could have been completely valueless.

      P.S. Some of us don't have enough products of our own yet to have the value of them go into the toilet. On one hand, it's a compliment that my product was good enough that people wanted to steal it. On the other hand, it's MY product and I SELL it. I don't GIVE it away.
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Bruno
        I say lynch the fool!

        Frank Bruno
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        • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
          Oh... and...

          at the moment, there are no rules.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kael41
          And the winner (aka LOSER) is?...

          /drumroll
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          • Profile picture of the author zerofill
            Ok...ok...it was me...Kevin Riley had his Mangy chicken in the WSO section and I bought it...asked for a refund...got it...and cloned it over and over....damnit...ok! I give up...
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            • Profile picture of the author zerofill
              btw...I outsourced the cloning on elance...
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              • Profile picture of the author Dana_W
                Yeah, when I saw that mangy chicken on the Warez site, I was SHOCKED.

                What was I doing on a Warez site?

                Excuse me, I think I hear my mother calling me...gotta go...

                Hey John, TELL US!!!!!!
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                • Profile picture of the author zerofill
                  Originally Posted by Dana_W View Post

                  What was I doing on a Warez site?
                  Sure sure...now you are gonna tell us you were just policing it and being a good citizen...we know...we know...lol
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                  • Profile picture of the author schabotte
                    For my Public Domain wso (temporarily suspended), I have folks set up an account to get access.

                    For Clickbanks sales, I have had one possibly fraudulent signup out of hundreds.

                    For WSO sales - where I'm using eBay - the number is quite large - about 9% based on about 200 sales. 50% of them were last night. Prior to that, I'd get the occasional one or two in a week but yesterday, I had 10 fraudulent signups. Obviously this is from someone who decided to share the signup page with their group of admirers :confused:

                    I obviously need to set up tighter controls on the account creation system I have associated with paypal so until I tighten that up, that particular WSO won't be offered again.

                    I'll most likely go to something like DLGuard for the Kindle wso.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Michael Chris
                      Should be the exception to the rule.

                      -Michael
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                      • Profile picture of the author TheToolWiz
                        Banned
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                        • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
                          Originally Posted by TheToolWiz View Post

                          How about maintaining a list of warez sites where people find pirated stuff of ours? If enough of us post warnings on our blogs about these sites, especially the dangers of visiting them, it might make a difference.

                          -David

                          I think it's a bad idea... it's basically increasing the temptation. Almost like leaving your car with the window open and the keys in the ignition.

                          Kindest regards,
                          Karl.
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                          • Profile picture of the author TheToolWiz
                            Banned
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                            • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
                              That's not my point at all...

                              When I said it was a bad idea, I meant that you could be putting the idea in a legitimate visitor's head that they CAN get your products for free. Hence the car analogy.

                              Kindest regards,
                              Karl.

                              Originally Posted by TheToolWiz View Post

                              So you don't think it's a good idea to warn your kids to stay away from certain parts of town where drug dealers are known to hang out? You just hope they have the common sense to ignore it when their friends urge them to go and check things out?

                              A great number of these sites are hosted and run by people in foreign countries for the explicit purpose of infecting computers with malware, with the intention of expanding a bot network and/or stealing login data to perpetrate ID Theft. Do you think they warn visitors of this???

                              FREE AIN'T FREE! You might save $10 on an eBook only to find your bank account is cleared out a week later by some unknown party in Lithuania. Sure you can get the money back, but how much time does it take you?

                              Don't you think it would be a lot better to scare the bejezus out of people so they believed that ALL WAREZ SITES ARE DESIGNED TO INFECT THEIR COMPUTERS?

                              -David
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                        • Profile picture of the author J. Barry Mandel
                          This reminds me of an unfortunate case that happened on Long Island with a doctor just last year. He reused needles and put hundreds and hundreds of patients at risk for disease and ultimately death. But, no one knew that he was doing it because the law was not written to protect the patients...the law was written to protect the doctor and as a result the health department could not tell the public

                          The good news was that the law was just changed advocating to protect the patient in cases like this from now on.

                          You can read the story here:
                          Doctor reused syringes while injecting patients with anesthetics

                          In the same way, if there is absolute evidence that someone is doing this they should:

                          #1 be banned from WF
                          #2 be outted to the members so they can protect themselves and their bank accounts
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  • Profile picture of the author PJ Morales
    Rule #1 should NOT be used to protect those who would prey upon the members of this forum. Airing personal grievances is one thing, but a thief is a thief is a thief and one should not be able to hide behind rule #1.
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    • Profile picture of the author sparrow
      I see my products on file sharing sites all the time and it has to do with these people who ask for refunds and have the goods and then gloat about having something to share.

      Your right a thief is a theif.

      I see these thiefs posting the WSO's all the time.

      If you run a WSO you should be aware of your products been stolen.

      Ed
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    • Profile picture of the author Alton Hargrave
      The fact of the matter is that a rule is a rule and we should always try to respect that. No matter how much we think that we ought to expose the wrong being done. If exceptions are made for any reason, where would it stop? How many people here are mad, and rightfully so, about something someone else did?

      You could ask Allen to make an exception, but that would be a bad idea because it would open the door to scores of similar situations. No end to it. And, there is no doubt that some innocents would become targets.

      However, I would like to see a means of letting others know when a "fox is in the hen house". Knowing that someone is here to prey upon the unwary creates a clash of values within us. We are trying to abide by the rules, but we are taught to protect our friends from any harm.

      Maybe a link in the signature to "My Opinion" or "The Real Story" or something of that nature. That would get the ugly details off this forum and get the job done without breaking "Rule No. 1" .

      I don't know if the Warrior Blogs would be within the rules for this sort of thing.

      Thanks,
      Alton
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  • Profile picture of the author dorothydot
    It's all too common for our words to be stolen in the Real World.

    For it to happen here, where we are among friends and fellow experts, is inexcusable. And ought to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

    I like the idea of a "blackball" section, where such creeps are revealed in all their lying actions. Along with the evidence of their crime/s.

    AND I think such actions need to be published far and wide so the rest of us can be aware that there is such an unprincipled, amoral word-thief lurking. Bring these people out into the spotlight for all to see - and judge!

    My 2-cents worth.


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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    John, it appears that it's almost overwhelmingly in agreement that this person should be outed. Part of my business model (I have my own site) is exposing scams and scumbags.

    If you want, PM me the name and info, email me the proof (link, etc.) and I will post this info up on my site along with all the other scum that I have found over the course of 5 years. Yes, I know he'll just get lost in the soup with all the other trash I have on the site, but at least people will know.

    As for outing him here, that's Allen's call. I'm for it but it's still his place and if rule #1 is still in effect, then like it or not, right or wrong, we have to abide by it until Allen says otherwise.
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    • Profile picture of the author AminMotin
      If someone is likely to be ripped off in some way here, they might appreciate a word of caution first. The problem arises where there is no substantial evidence. If you name and shame someone on flimsy evidence then the mud is quite likely to stick.

      Surely, though, there must be occasions when there is sufficient evidence to justify naming and shaming?

      Isn't part of the problem that anyone can shout 'fire' and we all start to see smoke? We deal with that in the real world by turning over such duties to the police and courts.

      Why don't we have WF police? First disqualification of entry for anyone to do the job would be the expression of desire to do the job. Anyone wanting to do the job probably shouldn't be let near it.

      I've been scammed on a WSO myself and the money I lost was nothing compared to the sense of stupidity I felt at having been had. There are WSOs I might have bought if I could have had a greater sense of security. As they say, once bitten, twice shy.

      Of course I'm not really suggesting that we have WF police, but I do believe there must be occasions when it would be right to name some names.

      Amin
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      • Profile picture of the author RobinSkeen
        Another popular forum has a "Name & Shame" section just for this kind of behavior. I personally love it and with proof, I see no reason why we shouldn't look out for each other. Not just b*tching, but real thievery should be made known.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tamer
      It doesn't need all this thinking... EXPOSE THE *******!

      Tamer
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      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        Out that bootlicker.


        Then we'll change their name to n/a so they don't get too many tomatoes thrown at them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rufus Steele
          You just got to love a rightly inflamed lynch mob

          I'll bring the rope, who's got the tar and feathers? (Apart from Anne Summers!!!!!)

          Out the S.O.B.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
            Originally Posted by Rufus Steele View Post

            You just got to love a rightly inflamed lynch mob

            I'll bring the rope, who's got the tar and feathers? (Apart from Anne Summers!!!!!)

            Out the S.O.B.
            I've got a mangy chicken and a bucket of used motor oil. Will that do?
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            • Profile picture of the author Rufus Steele
              Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

              I've got a mangy chicken and a bucket of used motor oil. Will that do?
              Ha - and they say us webmaster / IM geeks don't know how to party!!

              We'll show 'em.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Today I discovered a fellow Warrior who I believe is involved on a
        Warez site, and who is passing around member WSO's. I'm not going
        to go into details in this thread out or respect for Rule #1, but you
        can read my findings on my personal blog (see my sig below).
        For now, that's the best method - but I think it could be shortened and used as a sig for a time to get the message across.

        For it to happen here, where we are among friends and fellow experts, is inexcusable. And ought to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
        But that's not usually a practical use of time and money. Here you are among friends - and strangers. It's a public forum.

        The big problem with "outing" someone is that there isn't a way to present the facts (which I'm sure John has) to inform members - without having loads of people jump on the bandwagon to post condemnation when they have no involvement in the problem. It gets to slugfest level quickly.

        Wonder if there's a way to use the "infraction" for such activity by a member. To do that you would have to able to see WHO posted the infraction as that button would seem to have a high incidence of abuse otherwise.

        kay
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        • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Wonder if there's a way to use the "infraction" for such activity by a member. To do that you would have to able to see WHO posted the infraction as that button would seem to have a high incidence of abuse otherwise.

          kay
          Hi Kay,

          when you click infraction, your name is logged against the card in their post... it also sends them a warning from your username.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Thanks Karl - obviously there are still some bells and whistles I haven't yet found.

            That's a good function - but done anonymously it wouldn't be good at all. I guess if you click the button you do so with the understanding that person may then look for a reason to click your button!

            Does seem John could use that, though, and expose the problem without exposing the cheater's name in public.

            kay
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

    I'm very tempted to break rule #1 this morning having discovered
    someone else's WSO being "shared" by someone who calls himself
    a warrior.

    Shared is a euphemism for stealing someone else's hard work and
    posting it on one or more file sharing sites.

    This thief is so dumb he uses the same username on a warez site
    as he does here.

    Unfortunately this is not an uncommon problem.

    But as Allen has handed over moderation of the forum to us all, I'm
    wondering who else feels that there should be exceptions to rule #1
    when it comes to outing a thief?

    John
    I'm ALllll for it John.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dana_W
    Oh, just TELL US already!!! I'm dying to know.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tiger
    Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

    I'm
    wondering who else feels that there should be exceptions to rule #1
    when it comes to outing a thief?

    John

    I am for it. Nuke 'em.

    Furthermore , we need a list of all who are thieves. Those on the list
    get three chances to change. After the third [same] offense, they are "struck out"
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